by admin » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:45 pm
Part 14 of 14
Michael Flynn
MR. FLYNN: With regard to -- I didn't address the issue of -- that Mr. Johnson addressed of speaking to my witnesses during the testimony. Of course, in congressional investigations, it's done all the time and there's absolutely nothing uncommon about it.
Secondly, as most of you Commissioners know you probably heard what I said to the witness, which was most of the time just "Tell the truth," or "Explain that," or "Confront that," or something of that type.
In one instance, I directly and quickly covered the microphone when Mr. Mayer was testifying, and it was just as about -- if you go back and check the video tape -- Mr. Mayer was about to give the name of an individual. And as you can imagine, there are many individuals who are quite fearful of having their names brought out in connection with just these investigations. And I thought he was going to refer to a particular individual who had expressed serious concerns to me about his safety, and I thought -- because of my knowing who Mr. Mayer is and who he dealt with in the organization -- he might mention that person's name, who I have had dealings with and who has specifically requested that his name never come out, at this point in time at least.
And at that one point in time, I believe, if you go back and check the video tape, you'll find that Mr. Mayer, I thought, was about to mention the name. As it turns out, it was a different name, and he went forward and said it.
Other than that, I think, as most of the Commissioners know, who have been sitting in front of me, I've just told the witnesses, "Explore the area; Don't explore it for constitutional grounds; Explain it," whatever.
And lastly, I'd like to thank each and every Commissioner for giving us the opportunity to give you what we perceive to be the facts.
I would particularly like to thank my associates, Mr. Hoffman, my brother Kevin, and Tom Greene, who -- the four of us have just worked unendingly for a long period of time, and we've all worked together on an equal basis and have put in an equal amount of time and effort into our investigation of this organization, both on behalf of you people and on behalf of our clients.
And most of the time, in the media, it's "Mr. Flynn this" and "Mr. Flynn that," and most of the time next to an eighty thousand dollar figure. And you don't see the backdrop of what took place to produce those hearings. I'm sure most of you realize now after seeing them that it took a great deal of effort. And that effort was expended on the part of all four of us and other staff personnel back in Boston, but mostly on the part of the four of us. And all they see is my name.
And so, I personally want to thank the three of them, because I know how much they did. And in some instances, I'm sure, that they did more than I did and, yet, they see my name in the newspaper. Fortunately, it's also my name next to the figure, and so I get both the attack and the criticism. But they did a great deal of work, and they deserve a lot of appreciation for it.
And lastly, I'd simply like to say that there can be something done. The facts show it. If the truth is brought to bear on this organization and the organization is exposed for what it is, the city can do something. And remedial ordinances will be effective and it will help people that have been harmed by this group, and the deception can be stopped.
And I firmly believe -- and I wouldn't have worked for three years on this project if I didn't think that something could be done. And I think that more and more people that are seriously interested can find the issues raised by the Church of Scientology, and the areas of deception that we've raised will in itself cause something fruitful and productive to be accomplished by curing those problems and negating those abuses here in the City of Clearwater. And I firmly believe it can be done.
And I hope the Commission and the people of the City of Clearwater feel strongly enough about the issue to pursue it.
Thank you.
MR. LeCHER: In conclusion, I'd like to thank the people.
Motion to Enter Phase III
We have a motion on the floor.
MRS. GARVEY: I second it.
MR. LeCHER: And seconded.
MR. CALDERBANK: A little discussion, too: I'd like to -- as the record comes out, I'd like specific recommendation on some areas that are not our jurisdiction and would be federal jurisdiction --
MR. LeCHER: Yes.
MR. CALDERBANK: -- as to put together either a complaint or a report or a compilation of data and who we send that to.
In one instance, a person told us of being signed up as a minister to avoid the draft; in another instance, we heard of less than minimum wages and telexes for criminal activities.
I'd like to see, as part of the record as part of Phase III, specific analysis of those areas that are federal in nature and how to bring it to the agencies that are responsible for it.
MR. LeCHER: We would assume that that would be included, right, Mr. Flynn?
MR. FLYNN: It will be.
MR. BERFIELD: Mr. Shoemaker.
MR. SHOEMAKER: Yes.
MR. BERFIELD: One thing along that line: one of the questions that was asked of me, and that would be whether or not -- and assuming the person were willing to pay for it -- copies of the transcript could be obtained?
MR. SHOEMAKER: Oh, absolutely.
MR. BERFIELD: And I think the other thing is we need to do something along the same line that we did with the original report and that's out it in the library, so people can go in and see in full.
MR. SHOEMAKER: That will certainly will be my plan, and we'll also have another copy down at the city clerk's office for anyone that wants to peruse it.
Absolutely, once we get a copy of it, anyone who certainly, they'll have to pay for the cost of it but anyone who'd be interested in receiving it, would be more than welcome to have it or just excerpts of it --
MRS. GARVEY: Yeah, just parts, sections.
MR. SHOEMAKER: -- can have it.
MR. CALDERBANK: And, in addition, I'd like -- I don't know whether this would be the time or the motion to make sure that we do get the sworn statement from Mr. Ray regarding his criminal activities that were purported by Mr. Johnson here at the table today and his psychiatric analysis, and whether or not that information was given under confidentiality to the Church, so that we may know whether or not, indeed, 1982, today, the last day, it's being used in the same type of pattern that the record tends to show.
So, I'd like to see the sworn statement from Mr. Ray be gotten as quickly as possible.
Also, Mr. Flynn said about his associates and on the Commission, each Commissioner has gotten a lot of credit because we did something that, perhaps, has been festering for years. But I think there is something that the citizens ought to know, too, that Mr. Bustin, Shoemaker, and the entire staff have been under just as much fire as us and they don't get the same type of credit.
The people will remember, a year ago, Mr. Bustin was roundly criticized in the paper and attacked many times. And I think that the people ought to know, like the budget and everything else, that staff work is a great -- it's a large deal of the work that goes on here. And without Mr. Shoemaker and Mr. Bustin becoming personally involved and committed to finding out the truth, this hearing would not have come off today.
And I want to thank them.
MR. LeCHER: We've come a long way since the days of late last year when there was a campaign calling for information leading to the arrest and conviction of any dishonest politician by the Church of Scientology.
We -- prior to the hearings beginning, we were criticized by such groups as the ACLU, which, I believe, has defended the American Nazi Party, we've been criticized by the National Council of Churches, and other groups whose names escape me at this point; they're technical names.
And I want to thank the people of Clearwater, who, apparently, have been behind us on this issue. I want to thank everyone out there for watching.
MRS. GARVEY: Just one comment.
MR. LeCHER: Go ahead.
MRS. GARVEY: I wanted to remind the public, the citizens of Clearwater, that this is only the beginning and we've got a long ways to go. And, hopefully, it'll whittle out and have an effect.
MR. LeCHER: Did we --
MR. BERFIELD: No. We --
Vote on the Motion to Enter Phase III
MR. CALDERBANK: Call for the question.
MR. LeCHER: On the motion, which is --
MR. HATCHETT: Phase III.
MR. LeCHER: -- Phase III, to enter Phase III, all those in favor say "Aye.
Opposed?
(Whereupon, the motion was voted upon by the Commissioners and was carried unanimously.)
MR. LeCHER: The motion carries. This hearing is concluded.
(A book, entitled What is Scientology?, was marked as Exhibit No. 60, as of this date; A copy of a Veteran's Administration physical examination of L. Ron Hubbard was marked as Exhibit No. 61, as of this date.
(Whereupon, the hearing was concluded.)
C E R T I F I C A T I O N
I, Karen E. Rizman, a certified court reporter and Notary Public, do hereby certify that the foregoing hearing transcript of the City of Clearwater Commission Hearings Re: The Church of Scientology, pages 4-141, is a true and accurate transcription of my, dictated tape recordings of the proceedings taken at the Clearwater City Hall, Clearwater Florida, on Monday, May 7, 1982
Karen E. Rizman