Part 3 of 6PERCEPTION AND UNREALITY -- INSIDE THE ORG
Q. When you were a kid, you said you were able to look at your dad or your uncle, and you could really perceive them, and understand them and know them. When you looked around at people in the Org, and you trusted them, do you think that there was a misperception there?
A. Well, I gotta be honest. The more I got in, the stupider I got. As I get out, that's my perception. I mean, Christ, you don't even ask questions! That's what I was trying to remember the other day that I was going to say that I had forgotten. Like this thing. They made me a commissioner of CCHR -- I'm talking to Tory --
Q. And the CCHR is --?
A. Citizen's Commission on Human Rights. This is a way to try and destroy psychiatry and psychology. And I was like, "Fine, I don't give a shit." They put my name on their stationery, and I'm like fine, it got me out of an ethics cycle or something. So I said, "Okay." But I would go, and I always had questions. Because even L. Ron Hubbard, he would always call the psyches, and he would rail about them, and how terrible they are, the sole course of destruction.
And I kept saying, "His own technology keeps saying that's a generalization: the psyches. Who?" "Psyches on the whole track." "That means all psychiatrists for billions of years in the history of Theta. You know, it's so general." And that's a characteristic of a suppressive person, one who speaks in generalities. And another one is a person who has overts, which are sins or crimes committed. This is somebody who is antagonistic or angry. And he seemed very antagonistic and angry about psyches. So I was thinking he must have overts on him. And he's speaking about them in generalities.
But the thing I was thinking about is that I went over to CCHR, and got tours ad infinitum by the director, Jan Eastgate, and I'd ask questions, and she'd write me up in ethics chits and shit. And I said, "Fine, yeah, I got the question. I don't fucking know." But I would say, "If you want me to represent Scientology's viewpoint, and you go to their museum, it's all 'the psyches are bad; the psyches are bad; this is a bad thing; and Hitler; and they're responsible for child pornography and rape; and it's all the psyches.'" And I say, "Okay, that's their viewpoint. But if I'm going to get into a discussion, if you want to prepare me to be a spokesman for this shit, I gotta know the other side." And I kept asking, "Can you give me the other side?" And they won't give it to you!
And every time I would push it, I'd be like, "Honey, there's no way to get into the argument. If all this is true, there wouldn't be anything. I've got to know their viewpoint. How am I going to win the argument?" You know what I mean? And they wouldn't give me the viewpoint. And then they started to write me up, because I'm doubting. I'm not saying I'm doubting or not, I'm just waiting for the data.
And there's this whole big thing about learning how to think correctly. There's this course called "The Data Series," that basically you have to get all the data. They won't give you any fucking data on certain things. And especially about this. There is nothing written in all the tomes of Scientology about psychiatry. Nothing other than "The psyches are responsible for all your sexual problems because they implanted you, as a Thetan, so many years ago."
And I realized that in my research of OT10. "Oh, well, then it must be true, cause LRH says it's so." You see how at a certain point you get conned? And I was saying, "Where's the fucking data?" And nobody is allowed to tell you anything.
So they always pull out this fucking reference called "Pain and Sex." And he's talking about pain and sex are these things that are really dogging people, and it's a really difficult thing that we're trying to help you with in Scientology. And basically there's maybe two sentences in there where LRH says, "Through my research in the whole track of OT something-or-other, I just discovered that this is all because of psyches." And that's the reference they tell you to prove that the fucking Hitler and rape is a thing. And I'm like, "Honey, that doesn't quite handle it." But they don't get it.
Q. I look at this as an outsider, and to me -- and I don't have a vast knowledge of this -- it seems that the psychiatric field sprung forth in the 1800s, not thousands of years ago, or millions of years ago. How are there psyches on the whole track if there weren't psyches?
A. Because these are THE evil people. These are the evil beings actually. And you hear about Xenu and all that shit? Xenu was a psyche. You got it?
Q. So he just wasn't a practicing psychiatrist?
A. No, he was practicing Xenuism. Got it? Now they're called psyches. So you better beware. Am I right? Fuck me.
Q. I remember one time I visited the Celebrity Center, just walked in late at night, and looked around and said, "What goes on in here?" And they woke up the projectionist to show me the orientation in my own private screening. And they had some poor Sea Org kid, maybe 15 or 16 years old babysitting me in the theatre --
A. Well, you're not allowed to watch the movie alone because you could get an MU. He was watching to make sure you didn't have any lack of mass kind of shit.
Q. He was making small talk before that. He was saying, "You remember the Salem witch trials? It was the psyches behind that." "Well, I don't think there were psychiatrists back then." And he went "Oh no no no, not the psyches, I mean the pharmaceutical companies."
A. Oh dear goodness. These are the kids you dash off a "Get Well Soon" card to and that's about it. Because it's sad. And this is the interesting thing, and it goes back to answer further the question of "What did you perceive?" What I perceived, and I kind of avoided the question by saying I got stupider, but let me tell you something. These are good people. These are some of the best people you can meet. These are people who really want to help. They're willing to give up their entire life and their own personal ambition to help others. That's pretty rare. And generally you would say it's a pretty decent person. And I would say, "I'm not a bad person." If I saw me walking around there I'd say, "He's okay."
Q. When you say you got stupider, how do you think that happened?
A. In my opinion, and again I'm only out of Scientology about a year or so -- less than a year, officially -- but in my opinion, what I've gathered as I wake up -- You know it's a funny thing in Scientology. You feel as though you're waking up to the truth or reality, what really is. But what you're doing is waking up to the reality of Scientology, which is the agreed-upon universe of what is.
And basically, in my opinion, the best thing you can be is yourself. And that's who you are. And there are degrees to which you can actually become yourself. And that's probably what the whole spiritual interest is.
For me, I don't really know. But the trick of Scientology is it makes you feel as though, you're sold that you're actually becoming yourself. But what you're actually becoming is -- my name's Jason Beghe -- I was becoming "Jason Beghe the Scientologist," rather than just, not even "Jason Beghe" but "me."
And the trick is, and you say, "How do I fall for this shit?" Go back to my first fucking win. Because it's me. It's me.
And so there IS you.
But then it's YOU through -- I can't explain it -- pressure of the group? This is the thing I'm trying to get, because I've never been a guy like "I've got to get a pair of those shoes, because everybody's wearing them."
It's more like, "I've got to find my own if everybody's wearing those things." But maybe that's how I got out to some degree.
I mean, I'm not saying that I never bought a BMW, or whatever the fuck people want to do.
But to me it gives you a way of thinking. And from what I observe from others, it is not native to that actual person. As I said before, in my opinion -- and I'm no Dalai Lama -- I think that the best thing you can be is yourself. And if you can do that truthfully, it will be beautiful and successful and interesting. I don't know about success, how you define it, but it will be a worthwhile time spent. And what happens is you are sold -- and again, the trap is good, because you sell it to yourself.
Because if you're not on course, you're wanting to be on course, and you should be on course. You got your own self in jail. It's an autopilot gig. It's quite good. I think there's some hypnotism in there or something. I don't quite know. But it's quite surprising.
Like here's an example: you start the ethics technology. So you start thinking, "Okay." And you start thinking in terms of the conditions of existence that he laid out, and that these are behaviors. And so now you're not just going, "You know, what the fuck? I think I need to take a walk. And I'm going to be an insurance salesman. And that's my truth." You have to go through these steps. It's like retarded. It's not true. It's NOT true.
And I did ethics cycles and conditions and nothing changed. I've seen people who have done them, and they've changed, so I don't know. Whatever. But there's a placebo effect. I don't quite know.
Tory, how many times did you do the PTSSP course?
]Tory] Like on and on and on.
Every time you go PTS, which is the human condition, you gotta do the course over. Let me tell you something: that's another racket. PTS.
Q. I'm not sure if we got PTS description on camera.
A. It's Potential Trouble Source. So all injury, accident and illness -- listen to those three words -- ALL, ALL! injury, accident, illness -- "Ow!" -- is all because of PTS.
Everything! Everything negative that happens is because of PTS. Which means you are a "P" potential "T" trouble "S" source. Wow! That sounds weird. A potential trouble source. So in other words, not only did you just slip and split your lip, but you better get away from this guy, because if you're near him, you're going to split your lip too, and your business is going to fail. He's a potential trouble source. So you gotta take him out. It's like you don't come to school with the flu. This is like the spiritual flu. So it's the heavy shit.
And there's only one reason that you're a potential trouble source -- one reason -- that you're connected to an SP, which is a suppressive person. Now this is the 2-1/2% of awful people -- like Tory -- who are fucking it up for the rest of us good people.
And oh, it's a funny thing.
You know, as I zip around, my best friend, this is my best friend -- in 9th grade I met this guy. This guy came to my school, and I saw this guy, and I was a gregarious kind of kid, and he was new, and I SAW him.
And I said, "You know something? You and I are going to be friends." That's the first thing I ever said to him. And I was right. He's a big famous actor now, and an amazing guy: David Duchovny. And David, my best friend -- I'm talking about a FRIEND -- our relationship was adversely affected by my being in Scientology. He was very cool, but he wasn't into it. He was happy for me. He never gave me any fucking thing about it. And I think his wife, I perceived that she was a little bit more like "hmmpph" -- like that. And they were right.
And then everybody in Scientology -- not everybody -- that's a generalization. I'll give you people: Marty Rathbun, Susan Watson, Dave Petit, a couple of RTC Terminals people said, "Well, he's a 1.1 SP," in other words trying to destroy my relationship with him. And it affected our relationship. "1.1" is a definition of covertly hostile. "Hey man, I'm your friend. I really am, you fuck!" That's covertly hostile. Covertly hospital. So one of the first things I did -- I mean, we'd stay in communication, but the further I got in -- Like that.
And that's a loss. Let alone my family.
You know, my family, shit, they don't fuck with me. But I've never been closer now that I'm out, because they weren't into it. Everybody was totally respectful of me. Nobody ever said -- my mother said one thing once, "I just don't think it allows for the grace of God." That was all. Because she's a big Christian. Of course, I whipped out the Whiz book and gave her the right answer and handled it.
But the thing with Dave -- this is the other thing I was thinking when I was laughing, is when I got out, one of the first people I went to see was David. And his whole family was out of town, and I was just moving here, and now we live in the same city. And so I went over to his house, and we were just walking around, and we talked about it a little bit. Just a little bit. And I'd say, "Oh, by the way." And he'd say, "Okay."
So we started talking a little bit about the OT levels, and stuff like that, and he doesn't watch South Park or whatever the fuck, and he doesn't know, so "What were you into? What is the OT?" I don't know what he asked. But somehow I explained to him -- and here I just basically walked out the door -- and it did so much for me -- but I started to explain to him the story of Xenu, and the loyal officers. And I couldn't get a third of the way through the story when we had our faces on the floor, we were laughing so hard. I mean we couldn't even talk, because it was so retarded! It's insane!
Q. So what was your reaction when you saw the packet with the info? How did you react?
A. Well, that's the other thing. I gotta say, and I told you earlier, I had been on a spiritual journey long before Scientology. This data is as different as the word "Thetan" is different from the word "Spirit." It's about that different. I mean, the Bible talks about the Devil and demons. It's nomenclature. "Entities" is what they talk about in these New Age religions. So all that stuff about "Thetans," because I was in Scientology heavily, I was a little bit like this.
But I thought, "Okay." And I remember that was my thought. "Okay, that's obvious." It wasn't that big of a surprise to me. It's like one of those moments, now that I look back and really look at it, there was a moment where I could have woken up there. But you choose not to. And that's part of the reason why Scientology is expensive. Well, if you're paying a lot of money for it, it makes it more valuable.
Like I was just listening to the fucking radio today. There's this guy, he was working at MTV in New York -- this was just on NPR today -- and he was on this art channel on NPR, and he was working at MTV and they were talking about packaging and marketing, and how important it is. And this other guy says, "It's not that important." And he said, "Bullshit!" And they had a little bit of an argument. And he said, "Let me show you something." And he was in New York, and he went and got a little garbage, and he put them in little plastic boxes, and he put a little stamp on it, and dated them, and signed them, and numbered them. And he's selling them for $50 each as art. It started as $10, and it was like a little gift. But now that they are up to $50 and $100 each, people are actually calling them "art." So it's an interesting thing.
So again, you're driving the car. It's just that you don't realize that the car -- as a Scientologist, because you're in the trap -- it's got a pre-rigged route. It's called "The Bridge." So you feel like this is the easy life. "I just got to sit here and the car basically drives itself. All I gotta do is show up at the Church and I'll be happy." And there you are. And you're on the Bridge to total freedom. To total freedom! Yeah, they free you from yourself.
Q. That's one of the ironic things about Scientology, is they have the slogan called "Think for Yourself." And you find yourself thinking exactly what Scientology wants you to think.
A. But you're doing it yourself. That's why it's pretty good. It's really insidious. It's so bold and bald-faced, that you just would never suspect it.
It reminds me, remember, I used to smoke cigarettes. So I smoked cigarettes, and I wanted to quit. And I'm smoking, smoking, and these new cigarettes came out from American Spirits. And they're supposed to be all natural. And the fucking thing on it said, "Addictive free." And I said, "Bullshit." So I started smoking it, and I'm down to two cigarettes a day. And I'm like disseminating the shit out of these things. They are the best cigarettes in the world. And I'm telling everybody, "These are addictive free. I'm hardly smoking at all." I said to this guy, "Look, it's addictive free." He says, "Additive free." And I went right back to a pack a day.
It's the same kind of thing. You're playing the game by yourself.
Q. I don't think it's fair to say "by yourself," because it seems that this entire structure of Scientology is built to follow you onto the Bridge, and keep you on the Bridge.
A. Yes, yes. And those people that I suspect, and again I'm not an expert, and this is one of the things that I can't fully confront yet, I can say that in my opinion the lion's share, at least well over 99% of your Sea Org people are the truest of the true believers. So they are really trying to help you. And they'll not take no for an answer. It's like your son wants to touch the stove, and you're willing to physically stop him, even though he's sure he wants to see that beautiful blue thing dancing there and touch it, and maybe even put his hair in it, or something. He doesn't know what fire is. They're willing to give their lives practically to keep you on the Bridge, because this is for your own good. But that's just one individual. And that individual is doing his job. There's not a lot of them that need to be told to get up in the morning. They're on autopilot too. But the whole group becomes this living breathing thing.
And the thing I haven't quite confronted is, I can't see quite the fuck what anybody gets out of it.
Like COB, does he want $300,000,000 million? Is that what it is? Does he want a billion dollars?
Q. And COB is David Miscavige.
A. Is that it? Is it just his power hard-on? Or is it just insanity? And I wonder, was LRH just crazy? Maybe he was an SP. But I don't know. The jury's out for me.
Like if I wanted money, if I wanted a billion dollars or something like that, I couldn't do that.
I'd probably kill myself. I just couldn't live with myself like that. I certainly couldn't look my son in the eye. But that's me. Maybe that's me PTS. Maybe I'm fucked up. Maybe that's my conscience, whatever the fuck that is. I don't know. I haven't quite had that confront of truth or evil, depending on what you want. I don't know what the fuck anybody wants out of it. Like all this money is a big thing. Where does it go?
Q. We see recently there was a video released of Tom Cruise's birthday aboard the Free Winds, and I understand there was six figures spent on the birthday party for Tom. And that's parishioners' money going to keep Tom Cruise happy.
A. They figure that's worth it. Just him being Tom Cruise, from their viewpoint, he probably brings in $100,000 a day for the Church in terms of interest and positive public relations. So six figures ain't dick. Certainly you could throw a party for him every day, and it wouldn't really put a dent in their bank account. People like to get mad at COs who take these big things, and Tom Cruise's party -- the fucking Free Winds is a flea bag. It's not a fucking nice boat. I've been on that thing. I got seasick every time.
Q. Speaking of Tom Cruise, you were talking earlier about your identity being stripped and being replaced with that of "Scientologist," and certainly you can see that in Tom Cruise. Did you see the videotape that was released?
A. Yeah, but I would suspect that that's what happened. And he was off for a while. And he's in gung-ho. I'm sure he went through a big ethics cycle and "woke up," because he probably had some trouble with his wife, and he found his ruin. Maybe he has trouble with girls, or something like that. That might be his whatever.
Q. At any rate, he seems like the ideal of what a Scientologist should be. I mean, dedicated.
A. Well, I was in there. COB called me the poster-boy for Scientology. I was as gung-ho as you can get.
Q. How did it turn around for you? Why did you start to doubt?
A. Well, it not only did not work anymore, the more auditing I did -- which I was encouraged to do -- the worse I got. I was starting to go fucking crazy. And it was fucking me up!
Q. How far up the Bridge did you go?
A. I'm a Class 5, OT5. I've done all my Ls, done a lot of -- what do you call those fucking things? -- all those other courses, Data series things, and blah blah blah. You know what's interesting to me? There was a big thing, maybe two years ago, or 1-1/2 years ago, that everybody wanted you to listen to your congresses.
A congress is a meeting that LRH had, starting in the early 1960s, and he would get a group of people together and he would give a series of lectures on "X." And usually it was all about Clearing. All the congresses had to do with Clearing. Remember that I'm talking about the congresses.
I'm going to give you an unabridged version. Is that okay?
A. You sure? When I was in that TRs course, my very first week in Scientology -- now again, I'm an actor, so communication is something I kind of do for a living -- and so that's a whole course about communication. So I thought I'm pretty good at this naturally. And one of the exercises they use is Alice in Wonderland, which is full of these wild kind of sentences, and you take it, you read it to yourself, then you deliver it as your own. That's a TR1. A TR2 is properly acknowledge somebody. So they say, "Off with your head," and you say, "Thank you" to make sure they know it, and end it, and there's all these other things. Now, here I was doing this TR, and it happened to be TR2. And somebody said, "Off with your head," and I said, "My God!" and they flunked me. And I said, "Why?" And they said, "Because it's just supposed to be 'thank you.'" I said, "No. Read the fucking thing. It says 'appropriate acknowledgment.' If somebody says, 'Off with your head' -- why do you think he chose Alice in Wonderland?'" And they bring the head technical person of the place, and they're all invalidating the shit out of me, and I'm sticking to my guns. I finally am crying, and I said, "You guys are fucking wrong! Who the fuck talks like that? 'Thank you. I got it. Okay. Good. Wow.' That would be way too much, 'Wow. I totally duplicate that.'"
This is the way you're supposed to talk. I'm really talking to you, but do you see how I'm not? So this is perfect in terms of their idea. 'Alright, I got it.' So that was GOOD TR. It wasn't excellent. Excellent TRs is more like this: you know, you're really conversational, but I'm not moving, and I'm really looking at you ready for everything, and I don't blink and your eyes stink.
So it's that kind of fucking deal. Sum gum war sue up. That's just a private joke. You know that one, right? Moo gum guy pan. These are words so you can talk gibberish in Scientology to help you learn your TRs. And one of the things written down is sum gum war sue up. That's not a sentence. It's written like Chinese, "Sum."
Anyway, so I'm in there and I'm fucking crying and shit, blah blah blah. So finally I stop and I toe the line, and I'm "Thank you. Okay. Good."
And then about four years later, in some event, COB David Miscavige says, "Hey, there's been this big breakthrough in this Gold major tech -- fucking piece of shit! -- and here's the real thing! People have been doing the improper acknowledgement. You're supposed to have, it says 'appropriate acknowledgement.'" And they have LRH on tape saying, you know, somebody says "Off with your head," and he goes, "My God! That's the right way to do it!" So here I was, this guy, first day of school and I had it right.
Now, Cut 2. You're asking me how I got out. So I'm in the fucking thing, and they keep telling me I gotta do this action. And I gotta do this. And you gotta do this sec checking, and all this shit. And I'm like "You fucking people! I wouldn't show up here if I wasn't ready." And they would be sec checking, which is basically asking me for my crimes, and charging me thousands -- I probably paid $50,000 in sec checks to get this shit together -- because everything was fucked up, so it must be that I'M fucked up. And I kept saying, "These sec checks are killing me!" * And they'd say, "This is the standard tech now. This is the gold major tech." And I finally said, "You know something motherfuckers?
I don't care! You could get LRH to fly down here, back from fucking Target 2, and tell me that I am fucking doing it wrong. I am not going in session and doing this shit. You guys are fucking killing me! I am here to tell you: YOU ARE FUCKING ME UP! So I'm out of here until you fucking wake up. Okay?"
And then they'd come back to my house and they're offering me free auditing. I said, "Show me where free auditing is standard? You're not giving me standard tech, and now you want to fix it by moron standard shit? Get the fuck out of here!" You ask Griffee Blythe and the whole rest of those motherfuckers at AO if this is a lie.
It's the fucking truth. And I'm out! And I just went on course because I couldn't take any more of this fucking auditing. It was killing me.
So then they come out with this thing, "Jason, you HAVE to see this!"
I wouldn't even go to events, because me, I'm at an event, and everybody's like, "Hey, how you doing?" And I go, "GOOD!"
I just couldn't fucking lie anymore. I'm ready to fucking die! And I told them, "I'm not going. I can't participate." Because my role was like "Jason Beghe!"
I couldn't be like "Yeah, well, to tell you the truth, I'm fucked up! I hate OT5, and everything's going fucking shitty, and it's not fucking working, and it's costing me a shitload of money! And I'm more unhappy than I've ever been in my entire fucking life!
Another Sec Check
1. Do you lie about yourself?
2. Do you suppress yourself in some way?
3. Do you suppress life?
4. Do you connect yourself with bad influences?
5. Do you connect up with bad memories?
6. Is there some connection you wont let go of?
7. Do you always act in a certain way?
8. Do you own your loyalty to no one?
9. Are you doing yourself in?
10. Do you ant to or intend to do yourself in?
11. Are you on a succumb?
12. Do you wish to succumb?
13. Do you plan to let yourself go unrestrained?
14. Have you ever sought revenge on your family?
15. Have you ever done a family member in?
16. Have you made someone in your family guilty?
17. Have you ever brutalized another with sex?
18. Is sex destructive?
19. Is love harmful?
20. Are you best left alone?
21. Is rape justifiable?
22. Do you hold the opposite sex in contempt?
23. Are women stupid?
24. Do you lie about sex?
25. Do you have a secret desire to annihilate the opposite sex?
26. Is violence justifiable on a woman?
27. Are you implanted to feel a certain way about sex?
28. Do you have a dirty mind?
29. Are groups worthwhile?
30. Is there a leader you’ve done in?
31. Do you have a secret hatred towards groups?
32. Are you desirous of a group’s support?
33. Have you let any group die off?
34. Are groups better left to followers?
35. Are you spied on?
36. Is someone after you?
37. Do you have an evil impulse towards any group?
38. How long should any group last?
39. What makes a group fail?
40. Do you plan to seed the growth of unrest in any group?
41. Do you judge people by race?
42. Are certain religions harmful?
43. Is there any race you have it in for?
44. Does it pay to be destructive?
45. How powerful do ;you have to be to be successful?
46. What connection is sacred?
47. What part of mankind is harmful?
48. Have you justified a destruction of a race?
49. ARe other people necessary?
50. Is there some object you are connected with?
51. Is there a certain time period you dwell upon?
52. Is there something your energy is absorbed in?
53. Is there a space you are forbidden in?
54. Are spirits evil?
55. Is your spirituality threatened?
56. Are spirits overpowering?
57. Have you squashed a thetan out of existence?
58. Has your existence been questioned?
59. Have you lost out to a body?
60. Do you seek revenge against a spirit or thetan?
61. Are you a traitor?
62. Is your cause lost?
63. Do you intend to create havoc?
64. Is life worth living?
65. Are people better off dead?
66. What makes people insane?
67. Why are people suspicious?
68. Is there a past life that was a failure?
69. Is there a past life that was important?
70. Is there a past life that you can’t talk about?
71. Is there a past life that was evil?
72. What past life was critical?
73. What past life was suspicious?
74. Are you facing eternity with lack of hope?
75. Is eternity a dreaded matter?
76. What would move you to violence?
77. What motivates mankind?
78. Are you motivated by any impulse?
79. Why do people hate?
80. Is your survival dependent on an outside source?
81. Is your destiny decided by someone else?
82. Should you be punished forever?
83. Will all be the same?
84. How can you be stopped?
85. How can you be made nothing of?
86. Is there hope for man?
87. Has this all been run on someone else?
88. Are you waiting for something magical to happen?
89. Have you decided it was a waste?
90. Do you intend to make trouble after the auditing?
-- "The Technical Bulletins of Dianetics and Scientology," by L. Ron Hubbard
Q. What would happen if you spoke truthfully?
A. I would talk to RTC and all these things -- but it's bad PR! It's not anybody's business. You're not suppose to talk about "your case." So this was going on, honey -- I was in Scientology maybe 10 or 11 years -- the last 8 years like that.
And I'm paying fucking money. Maybe I paid a million fucking dollars, I don't know. I don't even keep track. I just said, "Okay, here's another fucking thing. This is going to work -- you think so?" "Yeah, we finally got it."
So I'm out of this thing, and I'm doing course, and I'm just off auditing lines and "You GOTTA see this thing, Jason. It's going to fucking KEY YOU OUT!" And I go in, and they show me this fucking thing, and I'm looking at all these people who are on OT7, and they're going nuts with the sec checks too! And I'm like, "This is fucking crazy!" These people, they're supposed to be home auditing, and then they have to go to Flag every six months, and they're there for like six fucking weeks. How are you supposed to -- what, are you crazy? And they're coming home like [making paraplegic motions] "Uhhh, uhhh, I had a really good six months check."
I mean, it's just as clear as day, I tell you: this is not fucking standard. Scientology is not supposed to make you worse. I saw it; I'm experiencing it; and watching it.
So now they come out -- and this is two or three years later -- and this little mistake probably made the church about $500 million dollars. And then about $500 million dollars later, COB gives a fucking briefing on the Free Winds, and this is what they show me is, "Arbitrary's cancelled!"
It's an arbitrary, is what they say. In other words, all this sec checking was an arbitrary. And through his research, and looking into things, and re-checking all of LRH's notes, they realize they made a mistake. And so now I don't have to do the sec checking, "Aren't you happy, Jason?" And all these people like on 7 -- like a bunch of fucking idiots -- were like "Arbitrary's cancelled!
And I can just go on. It's going to save me about $50,000 a year!" And all this shit. And it's like "Wow!" And me, I'm like, "You think that's supposed to make me fucking happy!? I feel like you should give a fucking apology." I said, "If I were COB, and I made that mistake, I wouldn't go 'Arbitrary's cancelled!' I'd say, 'I made a fucking mistake. I'm sorry.'
And I'd make up the fucking damage. I'd pay." My fucking mistake made me $500 fucking million dollars and you don't even say you're sorry? You say, "Guess what?" And this is what the fucking thing does. It just plays the same game over and over again.
And we're going now to the congresses. Toward the end of this eight years, and I'm like off auditing, you know -- I finished OT5 finally -- and I said, "I don't want any more of this shit." And nobody even said, "Take OT7," because apparently I'm in the middle of four fucking actions, and nobody knows what to do.
So I'm in the middle of L10 -- I could tell you about L10 -- L10 is a story in itself -- so just know that they used my fucking wins on the Ls --
and the Ls are what fucked me up in Scientology. *
So I say, "Fuck it. I'll buy these congresses. It's only a couple of thousand bucks, and I got something to do. I'll get in shape. I'll listen to the congress and go for a walk." I was one of the first people to finish the congresses. And I get up early. I get up at 5:00 a.m. And I just get up. And I'd take the dog and I'd go and listen to three tapes, and walk for an hour or two, and do the thing. That's how I got through the congresses. And the congresses are part of what got me out of Scientology.
Because if you listen to those fucking congresses, it goes like this: "Hi, everybody. I'm LRH. I'm very happy you're here. Listen, I've got great fucking news. We've got Clear handled! And you'll do this thing, and it's this new technology, and here's the realization, and this is fool-proof, and this is it. And now welcome to 1964!" Because apparently the fucking thing didn't work in Dianetics. Even though nobody said it didn't, But they were always trying to perfect Clear.
To compound the compounded felony Miscavige’s minions are boasting about putting the quickied Grades pc straight onto the Ls Rundowns. The L’s compilation is an overt product that has been known to Miscavige as so confusing as to be the number two cause of failed and severely complicated cases in Scientology. The L’s have been on the “compilations correction line up” as a top priority for nearly twenty years. The simplicity of how the Ls create as many botched and failed cases as they have advanced cases is mind boggling. It too has been reported to Miscavige directly. He refuses to fix it, and instead promotes it to cases incessantly, knowing that a good fifty percent of them will wind up spending hundreds of thousands of dollars in endless reviews, and a good percentage of those ultimately will blow off from Scientology severely disaffected.
-- Marty Rathbun, "Mark 'Marty' Rathbun's Place
The L Rundowns / L10 OVERTS BY DYNAMICS R/D
1. Have you ever denied yourself an opportunity?
2. Is there something you haven’t let yourself have?
3. Have you ever deliberately made someone think badly of you?
4. Have you ever made someone punish you?
5. Have you ever distrusted yourself?
6. Have you ever made yourself sick?
7. Have you ever deliberately hurt yourself?
8. What haven’t you let yourself do?
9. Have you ever considered anything to be “Much too good for you”?
10. Have you ever hated yourself?
11. Have you ever decided you were unworthy of your friends? family? job?
12. Have you ever prevented yourself from accomplishing something?
13. What haven’t you let yourself feel?
14. What haven’t you let yourself think?
15. Have you ever restrained yourself from a desired sexual experience?
16. Is there anything you won’t let yourself eat? drink?
17. What won’t you let yourself see? hear? touch?
18. What won’t you let yourself understand?
19. Have you ever attempted suicide?
20. Have you ever misused a body part?
21. Have you ever punished yourself?
22. Have you ever lied to yourself?
23. Have you ever failed to care for a body part?
2ND DYNAMIC (Family)
1. Have you ever been a disturbing element in a family?
2. Have you ever joined a family out of revenge?
3. Have you ever disowned a member of your family?
4. Have you ever gotten a relative into trouble?
5. Have you ever worked against your family?
6. Have you ever badly raised a child?
7. Have you failed to provide for a child of yours?
8. Have you ever split up a family?
9. Have you ever had a bastard?
10. Have you ever passed off a bastard as legitimate?
11. Have you ever claimed a blood-relationship you didn’t have ?
12. Have you ever forced a child into an unsuitable profession?
13. Have you ever forced a child into a loveless marriage?
14. Have you ever interfered with an inheritance?
15. Have you ever had a member of your family incarcerated?
16. Have you ever had an abortion?
17. Have you ever exposed an infant?
18. Have you ever physically injured a relative?
19. Have you neglected your child’s education?
20. Have you caused hostile factions within a family?
21. Have you ever lived parasitically on your family?
SECOND DYNAMIC (Sex)
1. Have you ever sexually aroused someone and then not satisfied him (her)?
2. Have you ever been sexually aroused by an object?
3. Have you ever aroused another sexually with an object?
4. Have you ever made love to a person of the wrong age?
5. Have you ever made love to a person of the wrong sex?
6. Have you ever made love to a person of the wrong class?
7. Have you ever made love to a person of the wrong race?
8. Have you ever made love to a creature of the wrong species?
9. Have you ever made love to someone who belonged to another?
10. Have you ever taught another perverted sexual practices?
11. Have you ever invented perverted sexual practices?
12. Have you ever used sex unethically?
13. Have you ever made love to a person you disliked?
14. Have you ever used the wrong body part for intercourse?
15. Have you ever caused someone to be castrated?
16. Have you ever made someone’s body more exciting by warping or distorting it?
17. Have you ever raped anyone?
18. Have you ever failed to have intercourse with someone you should have?
19. Have you ever had sex with a member of your own family?
20. Have you ever made love to a person of your own sex?
21. Is there anything about your sex life that would be unsafe to reveal?
22. Have you ever misused sex?
23. Have you ever withheld sex?
24. Have you ever stood up a date?
1. Have you ever joined a group without being qualified?
2. Have you ever given a group less than you received from it?
3. Have you ever split a group into factions?
4. Have you ever perverted the purpose of a group?
5. Have you ever made a group too dependent on you, and then left?
6. Have you ever belonged to a secret society?
7. Have you ever gone over to the other side?
8. Have you ever been an informer?
9. Have you ever brought your group into disrepute?
10. Have you ever weakened your group?
11. Have you ever been a spy?
12. Have you ever been a double agent?
13. Have you ever permitted your group to be wiped out?
14. Have you ever joined a group you considered bad?
15. Have you ever given a group bad leadership?
16. Have you ever given a group bad service?
17. Have you ever provided badly for your group?
18. Have you ever made your side lose?
19. Have you ever injured the survival of a fellow group member?
20. Have you ever enturbulated a group?
21. Have you ever done anything to a group?
22. Have you ever destroyed or reduced the survival of your own group?
1. Have you ever treated a member of your species like an animal? a machine?
2. Have you ever made territory uninhabitable?
3. Have you ever resigned from the human race?
4. Have you ever pretended to be a human being?
5. Have you ever done anything to keep mankind from uniting?
6. Have you ever tried to exterminate a species?
7. Have you ever pretended to be a member of a different species?
8. Have you ever denied a species a place to live?
9. Have you ever prevented a species form reproducing?
10. Have you ever perverted the purpose of a species?
11. Have you ever kept your own species ignorant?
12. Have you ever eaten a member of your own species?
13. Have you tried to start a war among your own species?
14. Is there anything you’ve done to a species that would be unsafe for you to reveal?
1. Have you ever treated living creatures like objects? machines?
2. Have you ever damaged crops?
3. Have you ever used bad breeding stock?
4. Have you ever eliminated good breeding stock?
5. Have you ever crippled or killed living creatures for fun?
6. Have you ever cut down trees without replanting?
7. Have you ever let weeds take over cultivated areas?
8. Have you ever failed to fertilize crops?
9. Have you failed to provide water for livestock? crops?
10. Have you ever put life forms to strange uses?
11. Have you ever polluted water sources?
12. Have you ever killed off a useful species faster than it could breed?
13. Have you ever abused a living creature?
14. Have you ever castrated or spayed domestic animals?
15. Have you ever bred warped life forms?
16. What life forms have you eaten?
17. What life forms have you fed to other life forms?
18. Have you ever kept a life form in an unsuitable environment?
19. Have you ever destroyed other life forms?
1. Have you ever failed to maintain a machine properly?
2. Have you ever destroyed a useful object? beautiful object?
3. Have you ever hid an object?
4. Have you ever made harmful combinations of matter?
5. Have you ever wasted metals? chemicals? inorganic materials?
6. Have you ever misused a tool? machine?
7. Have you ever forgotten how to build something?
8. Have you ever perverted the use of a scientific discovery?
9. Have you ever built something destructive?
10. Have you ever built something that didn’t work?
11. Have you ever made an ugly “work of art”?
12. Have you ever put things too far apart?
13. Have you ever put things too close together?
14. Have you ever made a location a mystery?
15. Have you ever misplaced something in time?
16. Have you ever forgotten a place?
17. Have you ever made an object mysterious?
18. Have you ever made something vanish?
19. Have you ever made something imperceptible?
20. Have you ever misapplied energy?
1. Have you ever denied the existence of Beings?
2. Have you ever made people believe they weren’t Beings?
3. Have you ever persuaded others some thoughts are bad?
4. Have you ever made a Being believe he was evil?
5. Have you ever made another forget?
6. Have you ever forced a beingness on another?
7. Have you ever made another believe he was somewhere else?
8. Have you ever made another believe he was in a different time?
9. Have you ever made another believe he was someone else?
10. Have you ever confused another’s memory?
11. Have you ever persuaded another there were things he must resist?
12. Have you ever prevented another from perceiving?
13. Have you ever prevented another from being something?
14. Have you ever convinced another his postulates didn’t work?
15. Have you ever made another experience something he didn’t wish to?
16. Have you ever convinced another that he was weak?
17. Have you ever convinced another that he was incompetent?
18. Have you ever convinced another that he was insane?
19. Have you ever convinced another that he was stupid?
20. Have you ever convinced another that he was dishonorable?
21. Have you ever driven another insane?
22. Have you ever enslaved another?
1. Have you ever doubted the truth of your religion?
2. Have you ever desecrated a holy place? sacred object?
3. Have you ever disobeyed God’s commandments?
4. Have you ever failed to perform your religious duties?
5. Have you ever neglected an opportunity to save a sinner?
6. Have you ever been disrespectful to a holy person?
7. Have you ever compromised your religious convictions?
8. Have you ever attacked a religion?
9. Have you ever tolerated a bad religion?
10. Have you ever perverted a religion?
11. Have you thought evil thoughts?
12. Have you ever concealed (denied) your religion?
13. Have you ever changed your religion?
14. Have you ever committed a sin?
15. Have you ever convinced others that some things are unknowable?
16. Have you ever convinced another that there were effects he couldn’t create?
17. Have you ever convinced another there were places he couldn’t be?
18. Have you ever convinced another that there were Beings with whom he couldn’t communicate?
19. Have you ever convinced another that some things cannot be communicated?
20. Have you ever convinced another there were places he couldn’t leave?
21. Have you ever persuaded another that he never created anything?
-- The Technical Bulletins of Dianetics and Scientology," by L. Ron Hubbard
Then the next Congress. And there were what, 20 or 30 of these fucking congresses? Maybe 200 hours or some shit. Every fucking congress is, "I got it this time!
Now we've got Clear handled. We've finally got Clear!" And this is going on over -- I'm listening from 1964 to 1970 -- and they still haven't fucking handled Clear, but they're selling you Clear. And I said "What the fuck? That's exactly what they're doing to me now."
And I went back, and I'm talking to Dave Petit, who is the head of CC, who is now handling my case personally. He's at my house. We're taking walks. I almost killed him once. I fucking took him by the tie and he was -- "Jason, please, don't hurt me!" I actually secretly recorded it. It's funny. I have it on audio tape. He didn't want me to leave: "Please don't leave! Please don't leave!" I said, "Motherfucker, get out of the way or I will fucking kill you!" And he wouldn't get out of the way. So I took him by the tie and put him down on the floor. And then I walked out. Because it'll get you pissed. That's how mad I was. My mind was fucked up.
It's one thing to feel unhappy. When I walked into Scientology, remember, I was on the top of the thing? It must have been false, though. I mean, I was fucking happy. And I'm fucking UNhappy. And they're making me pay to get fucked up. And they're telling me what's wrong with me.
And that's another fucking thing: they won't tell you what the next thing is. They're like "Believe me, it's good." You gotta fucking buy the thing for $50,000 a pop or whatever, and it's wrong! "Ooops. We made a mistake. We're going to do this now." Are you fucking crazy? Do you see how stupid I was?
And that's the game. I'm telling you. That's the game.
So at any rate, the congresses helped me out because I said, "What the fuck?" Because I never met LRH, and I figured he was good. I figured Scientology works, it's just these fucking mortals can't give me Scientology. If Scientology works 100% of the time, this ain't fucking working, so I'm not getting Scientology. And that's what I said to them. That's why I said they should give me the fucking money. It's one thing to make a fucking mistake, but let's say the last $600,000 was a fucking mistake. I mean, I feel like I got a case --
because if Scientology works, and they agreed this didn't work, I bought Scientology, THEN YOU SHOULD GIVE ME MY FUCKING MONEY BACK! And there's nothing to indicate that they have any fucking hope for "my case" now.
So I just said, "You know, babies" -- and I was trying to be nice, for six or eight months -- "Why don't you just let me go. Just let me go. Just let me go! It's better. You don't want to get into a whole fucking thing with me." And they wouldn't. And they had to keep changing Terminals. I'm talking about big fucking Terminals, because I would put doubt in their universe. Because you can't argue with my story. When you saw what happened to me, and you're a trained auditor, and you look in my fucking folder -- THEY FUCKED ME UP!
I mean, I'm talking about insane. I'm like [tortured gestures] "Huuhhhh. Huuuuhh!"
I mean, I've never been like that in my life. If I walked out, I was like "Hey, hi." I was never shy. I was never introverted. I'm sitting there, I'm like [angry suppressed motions] "Fhhhttt.
I'M FUCKED UP NOW! THEY FUCKED ME THE FUCK UP! "Oh, well, the way out's the way through." I mean, there's no reason to get in that room.
Maybe that was the hidden deep shit. I'm looking at my kid, he's five years old. He's a happy fucking guy. He's not fucked up yet. He might get fucked up later.
Q. Are you sure you were fucked up? Maybe you were just PTS to an SP.
A. Well, that's what I'm saying. And that's another thing. I had this big fucking car accident. In the middle of OT5 I nearly died. I was in a coma for 3-1/2 weeks. Everybody thought I was going to die. So of course, we've got to find my PTS terminal. That happened 8-1/2 years ago. And I got out of Scientology a year ago. In the last 7-1/2 years in Scientology, still no PTS item until I finally said, "It's you guys."
And they couldn't deny it. I said, "Look at the data." "Are you sure it's not that person? He's gay," somebody told me. I mean, that's how naive some of these people are. That's an RTC Terminal, which is like the gold standard of technical perfection, and they think that's a homosexual. So they believe that homosexuals are all 1.1.
Q. They still believe that?
A. There's some that do. I never believed that. I interpreted it differently. But it was something where I had to do some mental gymnastics in order to make it work.
Q. Well, that's what Hubbard wrote, though, that they were 1.1.
A. Well, it's debatable. Well, I know that he said something like "You're homosexuals" when he's saying the 1.1. So I don't know if it's all homosexuals or what.
Q. Yet, the Church has said that they no longer think negatively about homosexuals.
A. I've never heard the word "faggot" more than when I hang around the people at Gold, until the point where I said, "I don't like it. My brother's gay, and he sure ain't 1.1. I've got great friends of mine that are gay. You're telling me that Leonard da Vinci is 1.1? I don't think so. If he's covertly hostile, I mean he's got so much that he did that was good, that as much hostility as he may have exuded, I think he made up for it." I don't buy it. I never bought it. And again, in my own universe, when I was in it --
part of the thing when you're in it is that LRH is this super duper guy. So you make him into your own super duper guy, I suppose.
Q. If you're looking at the current management, David Miscavige COB, and you're thinking, "Well, is he in it for the money?" what's your view of L. Ron Hubbard now?
A. Again, I don't have all the data. I read some of the books that are critical. "Bare-faced Messiah" and "Madman or Messiah" and "Piece of Blue Sky." And then there's stories. So I don't know if all that's true. But it's consistent.
One of the ways for me that I can detect something is true or false is inconsistencies. You say the guy wore blue shoes and here's a picture of him in red shoes. So I never saw anything inconsistent. I didn't see it with my own eyes, but the person seems reliable. But again, here I am, I'm just pulling out of this thing, and I thought LRH was reliable. And I don't think so now. And you look at the whole death, and the death certificate, and all this stuff, it's hard to argue with. And you know, his kids.
Like my wife. My wife is an interesting person to talk to as well, because she's Class 4, OT5. But she's one of those people who could probably do heroin for a year, and just say, "You know what, it's making me too skinny," and just put it down. You know what I mean? And everybody loved her -- I mean, she was Jason Beghe's wife to some degree over there -- but she's a remarkable person in her own right. And one of the ways is that she's one of those people you just can't brainwash.
So when she got out, it was kind of like, you know, "That's it!" We didn't even talk about it. I said, "You know, honey, I'm thinking about doing this thing." I think she was like, "Okay. Fine. Whatever." Flip the burger. Because she had always pointed out things that were inconsistent also.
Q. Like what?
A. Like all these fucking OTs that aren't OT.
Like "That's a fucking OT?"
Q. And what's an OT supposed to be?
A. Somebody who is at least able. Somebody who can walk and chew gum. I mean, there's people who are "OT" that are some of the most incompetent, stupid people. My definition of "stupid" doesn't have anything to do with data or education. I'm talking about people who put their hand on the stove and go, "Hey! Hey! Hey! My hand's hot! My hand is hot!" I'm talking about that kind of stupid. Like unreal. What's wrong with you? There's some real dopes. But they have money, and they're successful, and they feel good about themselves. Because they're on 7.
"Well, I'm on 7 now. It's fucking great. I gotta tell you, you gotta get on 7." It's that kind of thing. And it gives them a thing. And I talked to [inaudible] and I said, "What the fuck? What is that?" Because these people, I might have had an issue with them, and they'll write me up and bring me to ethics. I got to handle this thing. And to the thing they wrote up I'd say, "What do you want me to say? It's true I guess." And they go, "Well, you know." I'm not going to say the name. You know who he is. I go, "Yeah." "Okay. We just had to bring it in because it's written up. Do you want to write anything?" "I don't give a fuck. Put it in the folder." Do you understand what I'm saying?
So that was some of the stuff that she would go nutty on. And even me, here I was, I told you the further I went up the Bridge, the more "casey" I became. You know, I met this girl, and she could see the more I did this shit, I wasn't handling dick.