Interview with Kay Griggs
by Pastor Strawcutter
Full Transcript
1996
[Transcribed from the video by Tara Carreon]
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Tape No. 3 of 4
[Pastor Strawcutter] We’re having a fascinating conversation talking to the wife of the former –
[Kay Griggs] Chief of Staff, Marine Atlantic; and head of the intelligence group that went to Beirut before the bombing. They were already meeting there. He is the NATO intelligence wet operations guy, psychological operations guy.
[Pastor Strawcutter] Wet operations?
[Kay Griggs] That means murder, assassination groups. NATO has a group of assassins and psychological operations specialists who work in combined operations to destroy targets. My husband tried to explain to me the first three years of marriage how it all worked. I was assistant director of the Chamber of Commerce. I was the first woman on the board of the Foreign Commerce Club in Norfolk. He thought that I was a worldly woman. I had dated a number of guys who were high level, like Jerry Unruh, who was captain of the Saratoga, a man who was very high up in Army intelligence in Richmond. I had been married to a governor’s grandson, whose family were all in intelligence. His father was a Harvard economics professor.
[Pastor Strawcutter] Years ago you dated John Engler.
[Kay Griggs] I’m sure it’s the same John Engler if he was in the Navy. I dated a John Engler who was in the ROTC in Norfolk, because Norfolk is the largest military complex in the world. We have Langley: the Air Force Base which does intelligence work; we have Camp Perry, which is an international intelligence spot; all of the naval bases: the master jet base, Training in Doctrine and Command which is Army, Fort Story. And in fact, Fort Story was where the recent Secretary of the Army was told he had to leave. I have intelligence guys who tell me truth, because they know they can’t talk. And I get a lot of scoops. Togo West was basically honest. And like Colin Powell, most African-American men are not going to condone murder and assassinations and so forth when they find out about it.
[Pastor Strawcutter] So you feel that Colin Powell is a different cut of general than these other guys?
[Kay Griggs] Oh, absolutely! The wonderful thing about some of the African-American men I’ve met is that they’ll tell truth.
[Pastor Strawcutter] Why would they allow these guys to rise in rank?
[Kay Griggs] As puppets, thinking that they will be able to make them do certain things. Because psychologically they are innocent. They are naïve. They cannot believe that our government has got hit squads, that they are having group sex going on, that they are giving people money in exchange for their services. Mercenary training is going on in the Army and the Air Force at the highest circles.
And I called Dr. John Ryman. They have him targeted as a kook. Colonel John Ryman lives in California. He was on the high track, the rising star track. He was in Great Britain. He found out about a murder over there. He reported it. He also had the CRAZY idea that there ought to be a peace college in Cambridge, that you know, we ought to really start working towards peace. Well, the minute he got back, he gave a synopsis of his peace college idea to Colin Powell and his wife. Colin Powell took it to the National Security Council. When Ryman got back – and I’m not sure the logistics and the chronology of all of this, but I’m in contact with him – he was put in a funny farm. I think he was put in either a place in New Orleans, or St. Elizabeth’s hospital where they put Ezra Pound, and where they’ve got Reagan’s assassin. St. Elizabeth’s Hospital, like the Eastern State Hospital in Williamsburg, has Army intelligence people in there. People who have decided to tell truth are targets. In other words, people who believe in the American dream; who are Christians; who are trying to get things straightened out. If they transgress that line and upset somebody in the high command, just like in Germany, they all of a sudden move from being a person, to being a target; from being a human being, a Christian, a loving, wonderful soul, to being a target. Therefore, they are the enemy.
This is also what happened in Germany. God makes us all wonderful and beautiful. Those of us who have the courage of our convictions, and who believe in what Christ did, who stand tall, why should these leaders not be able to speak and tell truth? Because it’s in the rainbow of truth. They are the rainbow of individuals who are God-fearing and love truth, in which we can build a better world. So why are good people silenced? Why are their papers gone through?
What’s happened to me, what’s happened to people like Mary Ann Poores, Debra von Trapp, Colonel Sabow’s wife –
[Pastor Strawcutter] Let’s talk about Debra von Trapp. I’ve heard the name, but I somehow associate her with something negative, or some discrediting of something she said. Is she the same Debra von Trapp that alleged that the Oklahoma City bombing was somehow Japanese related? Or is that a different person.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: So you are of the opinion that, from what you know, that there's a tremendous fight between the Washington government and the Tokyo government -- sort of a financial fight, having to do with the Yen/Dollar ratio, and so on?
DEBRA VON TRAPP: Yes. And that's derivative of the fact that Robert Goetzman, when he approached me on behalf of Xerox in 1991 to dissuade me, by threat, to get out of court with them, he did not identify himself as FBI. He introduced himself as being from the Executive Office of the President, under Mr. Bush. And ultimately, [he] persuaded me, by threat, as a trade-off to not having my son killed, to cooperate with them in introductions to CEOs and chairmen within the computer industry to be able to view their, what we would know as their "black hole technology", which was technology and development that was very advanced, that was not released to the public and was well-ahead of the government developments in various projects, in many cases. And that introduction, and that project that we were on, was actually a national network surveillance project that was partially based out of an Air Force base in Alabama, and was related to the officers from the Air Force that were in the downed aircraft in Alabama, two days before the Oklahoma...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Yeah. In other words, a day-and-a-half before, on Monday, April 17th, 1995, there was a high-level military group on a military Lear Jet, that crashed -- apparently... Well, the story in the press said that they were on their way from Andrews Air Force Base to San Antonio. But, apparently, the plane blew up, or something happened to it, as they were over Alabama.
DEBRA VON TRAPP: Yes. Because the same, the Special Ops team that was under Goetzman, contracted by he and his team, and paid for with Japanese government funds through MCA Universal and administered through the Embassy of Japan, in Washington... Some members of a Special Ops team out of Alabama are responsible -- both for the downing of that craft, and for taking down the Oklahoma federal building.
-- Interview with Debra von Trapp, by Sherman H. Skolnick
[Kay Griggs] I do not know. I’ve met her on the phone through Sarah McClendon, when I was staying with Sarah. Everybody’s experience is different. When you’re a very strong Protestant Christian, as I am, and you’re walking in light and truth, you take people at their word until you find out they’ve lied to you. And if they have intentionally lied, then I just let God deal with them. I don’t believe in vengeance.
[Pastor Strawcutter] So you think someone fed her disinformation as solely designed to discredit her?
[Kay Griggs] Yeah. And I do believe this is true. I know that she worked in the White House. I know she worked under a man named Goetzman, and some mob figures in the White House who were Army.
Now this CIA thing, from my experience, is bogus. Because every person I’ve known who is in the CIA, was in military intelligence first.
For example, my husband. He told me furtively when I saw him in court, “I don’t work for the CIA.” I knew he was telling the truth. He was afraid. He wanted me to know that he works under the Army. He’s a Marine Corps high-level intelligence officer. But he’s under all these Army people. So I’m having to assume the judge, the lawyers, the commissioners, all of the people who are handling my husband when he’s around me [are Army]. I really believe that he loves me, even though he’s under their control. And I think that’s why he’s been totally kept away from me. His daughter-in-law told me he can’t come back because he’d end up staying.
But the point is, David Leigh, my brother-in-law for 20 some years -- I married John Garland Pollard whose sister, Mary Lloyd Pollard, married a CIA agent David Leigh. David Leigh was Harvard, Hasty Pudding, and translates Mandarin Chinese. He’s a brain. His family came over from Germany. I think they were Zionists. He doesn’t believe in any religion. But he is still working for this intelligence arm. He’s doing war gaming for this global monolith. He’s playing chess by mail. He’s writing articles about the Middle East. He’s an expert on what’s going on in the Middle East from the Israeli perspective. He’s Army. I was with my sister-in-law when he went on a mission. And she was in the same psychological state that I was in.
[Pastor Strawcutter] And that state was?
[Kay Griggs] Keep the women out of it. Terrorize the women. Make the women fearful. I can’t say what I went through except that every Marine wife that I know is in that psychological state. Thank God, thank my grandmother for her wonderful Presbyterian background. Women are intelligent. I’ve got the spunk in me, the genes, or Jesus Christ, whatever it is, and I know truth. And truth is vitally important to me. I cannot live a lie. Maybe I was injected with pentothal when I was an infant.
And my husband is mentally sick. I believe he killed his first wife Sue. He’s dangerous.
We were married for a month when he gets a letter and a phone call from Mary Clark Yost Hallab and Ann Boucher [sp?]. And naturally a wife who is newly married to a handsome man isn’t wanting other women to write. And I’ve already found out who they are. I’ve got a masters degree. I’m a researcher. And I’m saying, “George, what are you doing hanging around spies?” I didn’t know about double agents. And Casimir [A.] Yost is on the Council of Foreign Relations. I’m sure it’s her son or her cousin. And her husband, as I mentioned before, was a Moslem, who was really a turn person on the Palestinians, who worked at the American University of Beirut. My husband was sleeping with her. Al Gray and everybody knew this.
And I didn’t know that this is what you do until I called Valerie Wilhelm, General Charles Wilhelm’s wife, on the phone. And let me tell you what she told me: “You just have to get used to it, Kay.” I said, “George has got another man -- Lieutenant Colonel Michael O’Boyle -- who I was told is his boyfriend.” And she said “You just have to get used to it.” I heard the same thing came from the wife of General John Sheehan, Jack Sheehan, head of NATO, who is a friend of mine. He’s been to parties at my house. And by now I’ve gotten my little tape recorder from Radio Shack, and I’m taping phone calls, because nobody is going to believe me.
So I’ve got my little tape recorder, and I’m talking to [General John J.] Sheehan’s wife. And she’s saying, “Come on over. Let’s have coffee. You come over at so and so time.” So I invite Carolyn Millice, whose husband was the “temporary chief of staff” after my husband’s wife’s murder. I know she was murdered from a blow on the head. I had so many blows on the head that you can’t even believe it. Broken bones and so forth.
Well, in the middle of the terrorism episodes that my husband would put me through, he’d say things like – you know, I’m down on the ground, he’s got a .45 to my head, he’s strangling me with his thumb on my jugular vein – and he’s saying, in this sergeant-like voice, “You have got to believe me. You cannot question me.” In other words, I am being interrogated. It’s the most awful experience to have the one you want to love, the one you have made your commitment with, have you pinholed. And know he’s an experienced guy. It’s horrible.
And these wives – now I cannot say whether their husbands have done the same thing, I don’t think they have -- but what they train them to do is to be speeding along the highway – it’s shock treatment is what it is I’ve been told. They are driving along the highway, and you’ve got an important person to meet, or important party [to go to]. You’re all dressed up. Or you’re going to somebody’s house. So he screeches on the brakes and provokes you in some way. You don’t even want to fight. You say, “I don’t want to fight. What is this all about?” And he’s just speeding up, going like 90 mph. He screeches on the brakes, and then he gets out and runs. It’s horrible.
[Pastor Strawcutter] Where did he run to?
[Kay Griggs] There was a Norwegian party. The first time that happened was when we were down in North Carolina when he wanted to get my camera. I nearly drowned. He wanted me to tell him where the camera was. He tried to kill me that night to scare me, so that I would behave. But I was raised in a family with strong men who stand tall. You don’t let people intimidate you when you know you’re right. Because there are more important things. God is over us all. Jesus Christ is above us all. Truth is above everything. The Ten Commandments are above everything. Under that is Jesus Christ, and then your mate. So that’s why I put him in very high esteem. But I knew he was not normal. I’m an intelligent woman. I read. So I was hoping I could change him. So it was a spiritual battle going on. And subconsciously, I believed that I could reprogram him eventually. Now I didn’t know at the time what was going through me. But I was really being tested.
[Pastor Strawcutter] Of course, the many years of operant conditioning he’d been through, fortified and solidified his positions far more. He was far more entrenched an operative than you were going to be able to undo.
[Kay Griggs] Oh, he was involved in the Halo program, the MACSOG –
[Pastor Strawcutter] Halo?
[Kay Griggs] He mentioned it was something to do with training assassins, and training psychological operations specialists. It was in the Philippines. They also had one in Panama. They had a school for Army and other guys where they would strip them down nude, and tie them onto logs. The man who ran the school was dressed up as a Nazi soldier, even though his name was Owenczech [sp?] or something. He was a Czechoslovakian pervert. Then they had a man who dressed up as a woman, who was really pretty. And here are these guys nude, and they are training them to kill. And in fact, there’s a book called “Copperhead,” which I have a copy of, which was written by a commando guerilla who was from West Virginia. And his father had battered him and beaten him. Well, what they do is, in the prisons, through this [inaudible] system, and so forth, they take the innocent little boys who have been battered by their parents, and they turn them into assassins, by making homosexuals out of them, or something.
Now, I believe these men are redeemable, because I believe that men like my husband, and Oswald, are held by the secrecy, and power of this adolescent group that controls them. And I believe that if they knew there were strong women, mothers and wives, who would be behind them 1,000%, they’ll have the courage to come and speak out. Or at least to stop the growth of this stuff. Because it’s with the growth of this stuff that they are intending to destroy America.
[Pastor Strawcutter] Well, there certainly does seem to be a growth in homosexual activity, homosexual acceptance, and homosexual promotion in our society today.
[Kay Griggs] You cannot get a job unless you are “special elite irregular.”
Now, the frightening thing here is number one, this is what happened in Nazi Germany. This is exactly the same pattern: excluding women and mothers who love their children.
Now, I’m pragmatic enough to say, Look, we mothers look at history. We look at the future. We’re pretty damn wise. I don’t use profanity unless I’m talking to soldiers, but I’ve learned that this is what they listen to. I can talk sailor talk. I can talk Marine talk. I can talk commando talk. Because I’m the little bitch who loves Jesus. Christ wasn’t out there with all the goodie-goodies. He was out there in the streets. He was out there talking to the drunks and so forth. I know how to reach them, because I don’t mind transgressing into this little verbiage. Because that’s what Jesus Christ did. But the danger here is that yes it’s a growth industry, and it’s growing exponentially. So what’s going to happen? They are cloning people. Do they need women? Which women are we going to have? The party girls? The bimbos?
In Norfolk, just to give you an example, Lieutenant Governor Dick Davis, a Marine, his second wife is a prostitute. He loves her very much. She had a wig salon. My uncle, Dr. George Bentley Bird, was the major obstetrician for everybody in Norfolk: prostitutes and everybody. He told us, our family knows who the prostitutes are, and who goes to the Saints and Sinners banquet. For one, Judge Richard Kellum, who is a nice guy.
[Pastor Strawcutter] Now the Saints and Sinners banquet – is this a local affair?
[Kay Griggs] Yes. Every town has got this Saints and Sinners group, the sleep-around group, or whatever. The group that tolerates it, and has a little fun. And they are all guys. But the thing is, where is it going to lead? This is why women like me who know, need to be involved in the process of leveling things out a little bit. When you target good, strong people who know what to do, and who can figure out quickly what to do in given situations, it’s like targeting good people. Taking their papers. Going into the leaders’ houses. The leaders who pop up and are trying to get things straight are the ones who really know what’s going on. They are just the people who need to be involved in the process of leveling things out. Maybe they’ve gone off a little bit here or a little there, but the point is they know that truth and light is what is going to make that balance work out. And when you marginalize women, target women, mothers, wives who are strong inside – I’m talking about really core strong, genetically strong -- even Clausewitz said the moral is 3 to 1 over the arms. If they want to win over these little guys, they’ve got to have credibility. What’s happening now, and why they are all afraid, is they have no credibility.
The SEALs are the worst. They were so afraid about that one little doctor that the SEALs gang-raped in Norfolk. Why? Because the whole credibility of the SEALs is shot.