COP 27 Climate Summit, by Amy Goodman, DemocracyNow

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“Climate Collateral”: How Military Spending Fuels Environmental Damage
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow
NOVEMBER 16, 2022
https://www.democracynow.org/2022/11/16 ... nsnational

As the U.N. climate conference in Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt, is underway, we look at how military spending accelerates the climate crisis. Wealthy nations’ investments in armed forces not only exacerbates pollution but also often surpasses their climate financing by as much as 30 times, according to a new report by the Transnational Institute. It shows the money is available, “but it’s been dedicated to military spending,” says co-author Nick Buxton. Governments that import arms, like Egypt, are motivated by the desire for legitimacy and the “power to crack down on the civil society,” adds Muhammad al-Kashef, human rights lawyer and migration activist.

Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. We’re broadcasting from the U.N. climate summit in Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt.

We turn now to look at the link between military spending and the climate crisis. A new report by the Transnational Institute examines how military spending and arms sales not only increase greenhouse gas emissions, but also divert financial resources and attention away from tackling the climate emergency.

In a moment, we’ll be joined by two co-authors of the report, but first this is a short video produced by the Transnational Institute.

MUHAMMAD AL-KASHEF: My name is Muhammad. I’m a human rights lawyer, researcher and migration activist. I have been born and raised in Egypt, until I left the country in 2017 because of the risks and the threats that I faced personally because of my activism and work. When I left Egypt and became an exile, I felt like a tree that you took out of the soil.

Egypt is in the international spotlight today for hosting the world’s most important climate talks. But the fact that its host is the military dictator Abdel Fattah el-Sisi, it says a lot about the world’s most powerful nations’ real priorities. Sisi’s regime survives thanks to a huge flow of oil, arms and EU money.

The richest and most polluting countries today spend 30 times as much on military as they do on climate finance for the world’s most climate-affected people. Rather than providing aid, these same rich countries are interested in providing weapons and arms to countries like Egypt. And every dollar of military spending is also worsening the climate crisis.

A militarized nation like Egypt and an accelerated arms race globally is the opposite of climate justice. We cannot allow my experience and the experience of many other Egyptians to become the model for how we respond to an escalating climate crisis. Climate justice requires democracy, human rights, dignity and demilitarization. It requires a world that puts people before profits and peace before war.

AMY GOODMAN: That’s a video produced by the Transnational Institute, which has just published the new report, “Climate Collateral: How military spending accelerates climate breakdown.”

We are joined now by two guests. Nick Buxton is a researcher at the Transnational Institute, joining us from Wales, and Muhammad al-Kashef is an attorney and migration activist living in Germany.

Nick, let’s begin with you. Why don’t you lay out the findings of your report, that looks into military spending, arms and weapons sales from the world’s richest nations, and the deep impacts that it has on countries’ capacity to address the climate catastrophe that the world is facing right now?

NICK BUXTON: Yes. Thanks, Amy. Thanks for the invitation to be on your show.

This report, as you know, is coming on the back of big discussions at this COP, which we just heard about in this earlier section, about the need that the poorest countries, who are most impacted by climate change, are saying that we need finance to both adapt to climate change and to deal with the loss and damage. And we hear John Kerry — you were just quoting the earlier clip — saying, “Name me a nation that has trillions of dollars to deal with this,” except — basically saying washing his hands of the situation and refusing to accept some responsibility.

And yet, what this report shows is that there is trillions of dollars. The richest countries, which are called Annex II countries under the U.N. climate talks, have dedicated $9.45 trillion to military spending in the last eight years, between 2013 and 2021. And that is 30 times more than they have dedicated to climate finance. And they’re still not delivering on their promises to deliver the $100 billion a year that was promised way back in 2009 now. So, what we’re seeing, firstly, in this report is that there is resources, but it’s been dedicated to military spending.

The second main finding is that, of this military spending, it is very much tied to a very high-emitting situation, that we’re creating greenhouse gases with every dollar we spend on the military. And that’s because the military depends, with its jets, its tanks, its ships, on high levels of use of fossil fuels. So, for example, the F-35 jet, which is the main fighter jet that the U.S. is now deploying, uses 5,600 gallons of liters an hour in its deployment. And these weapons, which are bought, then are usually in operation for 30 years, so it’s locking in that carbon for a long time to come. So, we’re creating a situation where actually the military is contributing deeply to the crisis.

And then the third main finding of the report was looking at what the richest countries, the Annex II countries, are doing in terms of arms sales. We actually found out — found that the richest countries are supplying arms to all 40 of the most climate-vulnerable countries. So, what we’re seeing is we’re not providing the finance that we need for the poorest countries, but we are providing arms. In a situation of climate instability and in terms of a real poverty and people really facing on the frontlines of climate change, we’re actually adding fuel to the fire by providing the arms that could lead to conflict. And this, as the video shared, is the complete opposite of climate justice.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about the armed forces and fuel consumption, Nick?

NICK BUXTON: Yeah. There’s a report just came out actually just a couple of days ago, which has been estimating how much the military contribute towards emissions. And it calculates that the world’s military contribute 5.5% of the total emissions of greenhouse gas emissions. If it was considered a country, it would actually come fourth, so it’s just after Russia in terms of how much emissions that they produce. So, it’s a very substantial contribution to the problem. The Pentagon in the U.S. is the single largest institutional emitter of carbon emissions. And the 5.5%, for example, is double what is produced by civil aviation.

And what is really shocking is that within the U.N. system, it is not properly counted. So it’s one of the few bodies and organs that doesn’t have to report all its emissions to the UNFCCC and the IPCC. And that was because the U.S., under the Bill Clinton administration, actually carved out an exemption for the Pentagon. So, at the moment, that exemption — in 2015, it was watered down so now they can report it, but it’s not — it’s still voluntary, and we still have a very incomplete picture of actually how many emissions are produced.

So, this is one of the key demands that is being raised at the COP, is that we’re doing some estimates that it’s a really significant player, but it’s absolutely crucial that it becomes mandatory for the military to provide it and to show all their emissions, not just of the emissions of their equipment, but also the supply chains of the arms sales and so on, because we do know that these systems are very highly tentative users of fossil fuels, and they’re also very much embedded in a system that has been protecting the fossil fuel economy globally for a long time.

AMY GOODMAN: I want to bring Muhammad al-Kashef into this conversation. Muhammad, Egypt is the third-largest importer of weapons in the world, one of dozens of countries that has received more and more military aid, arms and weapons from the United States, from the European Union, as well as from other rich nations. How has this contributed not only to the worsening pollution and the impacts of the climate crisis in the country and the world, but also to serious human rights violations committed in Egypt by the Egyptian military?

MUHAMMAD AL-KASHEF: OK. Thank you.

Actually, Egypt has spent nearly $50 billion on purchasing weapons since 2014, just soon after the military returned to the power in 2013. And since 2017, it has been one of the top five arms-importing countries. In the last three years, it’s ranked as the third highest, third. And actually, in two major deals, Egypt paid around 5.2 billion euros in 2015 and 4.2 billion euros in 2021.

As we all see, and it’s not hidden, the economical situation that Egypt is facing and the suffering that Egyptian people see and struggle with since 2016, but also, when we talk about the human rights situation and we’re talking about the situation inside the country itself, this country kind of shaped and controlled by every level by the military, which not only the every level of state bureaucracy, but also controls large sector of the economy and the open spaces.

And I’m sure now, like, COP27 just shedding the light on Egypt, and luckily there is a civic space that the human rights defenders, the people still living in Egypt, can speak loudly and transfer their voices to the outer world. Unfortunately, these arms deals and all this money involved give the Egypt and the Egyptian state kind of legitimacy and international support that give them the power to crack down on the civil society to keep over 60,000 — referring to Amnesty report in 2016, more than 60,000 political prisoners in detention. We see actually just one figure, Alaa Abd El-Fattah, just one figure, just one political prisoner, who got support and who is just lucky to have some people talking for him. And we see how the Egyptian state actually respond to such demands.

So, that’s what we are seeing, actually. The world and the European member states, the U.S.A. and even the Russia, all of them just closing their eyes of the violations that happen inside Egypt, because of all these deals, because of the interest.

AMY GOODMAN: So, Kashef, if you could — if you could talk more about where we are right now, where we are — you’re in Germany, we are in Sharm el-Sheikh, in Egypt — and about what this place sort of represents? For many, they don’t even have a sense that they’re in Egypt. It is such a different place, so isolated.

MUHAMMAD AL-KASHEF: Actually, Egypt is not isolated. Egypt is in the middle of everything, like in the middle of East. It’s —

AMY GOODMAN: I meant Sharm el-Sheikh.

MUHAMMAD AL-KASHEF: Yeah, Sharm el-Sheikh actually is a really nice touristic resort. This does not reflect the real situation in Egypt, in Delta, in Cairo and Alexandria and North Coast. Sharm el-Sheikh is just a part of heaven, if we want to discuss that. And actually, it’s crazy, because there is no transparency, no democratical accountable or process holding the Egyptian state the responsibility for what happened. To invite all these people to Sharm el-Sheikh and let them enjoy their time in such a resort, I would say this is just not just a greenwashing, but also this is a big lie.

AMY GOODMAN: You also are a major advocate for refugees. Can you talk about climate refugees? The same rich nations that are creating conditions that cause people to flee, investing then billions of dollars in militaries and borders, and preventing them from coming to the fossil fuel-emitting nations.

MUHAMMAD AL-KASHEF: Yeah, sure. Actually, when we see that, it’s a kind of a closed circuit, and we are going in dilemma. Biggest states are expending more money and expending too much billion dollars and euros in the arms, and then we see the military [inaudible] and how it affect on the climate, and find like displaced people and refugees are leaving their home and their countries to find a better place to live, to find someplace still livable, in a sense. And then, instead, actually, of spending money and spending resources to correct the situation and to face the crisis, no, the states are spending more and more money in militarization — in the militarization, in militarizing the border, in the border security.

And that’s actually really sad, because we see that the crisis is kind of affecting us all. And we need really to find a solution, to find a better solution. What we see in Africa now, it’s also going to Mediterranean, because in the Mediterranean, big sector of fishermen, big sector of communities are losing their source of finalizing and affording living. And what we are witnessing actually in Pakistan and the floods in Pakistan and what’s happening, this is all actually kind of impact of our wrong policies.

AMY GOODMAN: Well, I want to thank you both for being with us. We’re certainly going to link your report. Muhammad al-Kashef is an attorney and migration activist, speaking to us from Germany. Nick Buxton, researcher at the Transnational Institute — they are co-authors of “Climate Collateral: How military spending accelerates climate breakdown” — also co-author of The Secure and the Dispossessed: How the Military and Corporations Are Shaping a Climate-Changed World.

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“A Carbon Bomb”: Movement Grows Against EACOP East African Pipeline Funded by France’s Total & China
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow
NOVEMBER 16, 2022
https://www.democracynow.org/2022/11/16 ... st_african

COP27 in Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt, has been called the African COP, but many African climate activists cannot afford to attend. Broadcasting from the summit, we speak to Omar Elmawi, campaign coordinator for Stop the East African Crude Oil Pipeline, about the push to stop the construction of a major pipeline that would stretch 900 miles from Uganda to Tanzania. Key financial backers of the East African Crude Oil Pipeline include the French company Total and the China National Offshore Oil Company. “It’s a project that is strongly being opposed by people in Uganda and the whole world, because it’s going to be displacing over 100,000 people in East Africa, and it’s also going to be causing a lot of impacts to nature,” says Elmawi. He adds that the region should transition instead to renewable energy such as solar.

Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman. We’re broadcasting from the U.N. climate summit, COP27, in Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt, as we end today’s show looking at a movement to stop a major oil pipeline in East Africa to connect Uganda’s Lake Albert oil fields to the Port of Tanga in Tanzania. Key financial backers of the 900-mile East African Crude Oil Pipeline, known as EACOP, include the French company Total and the China National Offshore Oil Company. Environmental groups have fought the project for years, warning it will have a devastating impact on the region and produce vast greenhouse gas emissions. One group recently described the project as a, quote, “mid-sized carbon bomb.”

To talk about EACOP, we’re joined by Omar Elmawi. He is campaign coordinator of the Stop East African Crude Oil Pipeline campaign, co-founder of deCOALonize, based in Kenya.

Welcome to Democracy Now! It’s great to be with you here in Sharm el-Sheikh. Omar, talk about this oil pipeline. For a global audience, place it for us. And who’s behind it?

OMAR ELMAWI: Thank you for inviting me.

This is a pipeline that’s been proposed in East Africa, which is going to be the longest heated pipeline, to be able to take the oil that was discovered in the Lake Albert region in 2006 in Uganda all the way to Tanzania so that it can be put into tankers and then taken into international markets for being utilized for other issues within these countries.

So, it’s a project that is strongly being opposed by people in Uganda and the whole world, because it’s going to be displacing over 100,000 people in East Africa, and it’s also going to be causing a lot of impacts to nature. One of the biggest biodiversity sectors, called the Murchison Falls Park, is going to be affected. And then it’s also a carbon bomb, as you’ve already said, because it’s going to be emitting over 34 million tons of CO2 every year for the next 20 years that it’s going to be operational.

AMY GOODMAN: So, how is Total and this Chinese company having the authority to build this?

OMAR ELMAWI: Because the way they proposed this project is that after Uganda discovering the oil, they realized that it’s a costly process, and they don’t have the money to mine it by themselves, so they invited interested parties to come in and submit their interest to be able to exploit it.

But then the unfortunate thing is that now Total took advantage of this process, and they managed to come up on top, and they managed to get — to become the biggest shareholder of the project. They own over 62% of the pipeline, and they own a whole operation, 100% operation of one of the biggest oil fields in the region. And they’ve signed agreements that are giving tax benefits to the corporates, where they’re getting a tax holiday for up to 10 years. They won’t be paying a penny for all the oil revenues that are selling out.

And I know for — people who are watching will be asking, “Then why is the government signing on to these agreements?” And to me, in my mind, I’m also asking the same questions, because it’s either the government is really ignorant about its interests in what they’re doing with all of this process, or, secondly, someone has been compromised, and they are not making decisions on behalf of the interests of the public, but the interests of their own stomachs.

AMY GOODMAN: So, talk about how the profits from this, if there are profits, are apportioned between the oil companies, Total, China, and the countries, Uganda and Tanzania.

OMAR ELMAWI: If there are any profits, all of them are going to go to the corporates, because the way you make money in the oil business is either you charge taxes over the barrel, per barrel of oil that’s being sold — and they are not doing that, because they’ve already given a tax exception for 10 years. The second way is to have a huge shareholding capacity within the project. And as I’ve already told you, the governments of Uganda and Tanzania are minority shareholders of their own resource that they are considering is coming from their country.

And therefore, what they are doing here is that the only thing that they will benefit are the impacts that are going to be faced for the people, the impacts on the environment, the impacts on health. And they’re the ones who are going to be shouldering all of these issues, because these are areas that they will have to be setting aside government and money from the government to be able to be dealing with these issues.

AMY GOODMAN: Talk about the groups that are fighting it. And how much effect do they have on the governments of Tanzania and Uganda?

OMAR ELMAWI: This is one of the classical campaigns to show where it started from a community grassroots campaign, where communities living along the corridor, all the way from Uganda, the western Uganda, up to Tanga in Tanzania, came together and decided to start a campaign to stop this project. And in doing so, they started inviting and bringing on board many other voices from the whole part of the continent at first, and now even people coming from all over the world having and showing solidarity. We have organizations and campaigns in France who are pushing and making sure that they’re helping to put pressure on Total. We are having friends in the U.S. who are making sure that the different banks that might be interested in this project don’t give out the money. And therefore, it’s now one of the classical good examples of coming together with global citizens where they’ve shown that the world is indeed a small village.

AMY GOODMAN: So, we just had on yesterday Vanessa Nakate, and she is from Uganda, and she also spoke about EACOP and her opposition. I’m wondering about this COP, COP27, called Africa’s COP. Your thoughts on that? And are these companies that you’re talking about, not to mention the country — how they’re represented here, like Total?

OMAR ELMAWI: I mean, so far, it’s been a huge disappointment. This is not necessarily an African COP, but just a COP that’s happening in Africa. Everything is the same as how it’s been happening from before. The bigger Global North nations are pushing the agenda. Our African leaders are here, not understanding who or where their priorities should be, because they seem to be advancing the priorities of fossil fuel companies by trying to push for things like gas and fossil fuels as a transition fuel for the continent, when actually what they are doing is providing all of these resources for fossil fuel companies to keep exploiting and taking them to the Global North. So, in short, we are opening business as a petrol station for the Global North.

AMY GOODMAN: So, talk about how people, the wildlife, the animals, the flora, the fauna are affected. You said 100,000 people. Who moves them? And do these countries say they will be compensated? And does that matter if they’re forcibly moved?

OMAR ELMAWI: So, the unfortunate thing is, in Africa, and indeed, in this case, Uganda, when the government is convinced that a project is good for them and for the public, all of us are considered as collateral damage. So, 100,000 people will give way just to make sure that this pipeline takes effect. These are just the people who have to be removed from the process. I haven’t even started speaking about people who are economically displaced, because the pipeline is cutting across areas that is fertile land where people depend for agriculture. It’s cutting across rivers and lakes which are important as not just freshwater sources for the people, but also for fishermen and other people. So, all these are people who are going to be affected.

Definitely, the pipeline is passing across important wildlife areas, some of the game reserves, including the Murchison Falls Park, which actually is home to some of the most important wildlife animals within the continent.

And then, finally, it’s also the aspect around how this project is actually pushing across, you know, people who have been opposed to it and speaking against it having, one way or another, faced government reprisals. There have been a lot of human rights violations in the process. People have been arrested. People have been detained. Organizations have been threatened to have the organization deregistered. And therefore, for us, it doesn’t necessarily look like development, because you don’t force development of people. If they don’t agree to it, then you shouldn’t be putting them in jail.

AMY GOODMAN: We’re talking to Omar Elmawi. He’s campaign coordinator of EACOP — stopping EACOP, Stop East African Crude Oil Pipeline campaign, and also the co-founder of deCOALonize. That’s “decolonize,” but the “col” is spelled C-O-A-L. Talk about what that means, how you’re fighting coal and fighting for renewables.

OMAR ELMAWI: Yeah, and it’s sad that at this time and age we’re still talking about coal as an option for energy production for people. I mean, the evidence is there of how harmful it is, how it affects people and everything that it touches.

And therefore, the deCOALonize campaign and what we were trying to do is to show that this project is really wrong. We were able to work with the community across two regions in Kenya, that were the coal fronts, to be able to speak up against this project and to significantly challenge it in courts. And it’s one of the few good examples of success stories where the communities were able to successfully litigate and win a case against the coal interests. And we’ve been able to make sure that that project never takes effect.

And in terms of renewables, it’s the whole reason why we are doing this work, because we are not just saying that we don’t want energy, because we have more than 650 [million] Africans who are energy poor in this continent that require accessible and affordable energy, but the solution shouldn’t be about exploiting these resources and taking them somewhere, but find a solution that provides this energy to them. And the good thing is that renewables are easily decentralized, and we can easily make sure that people get access to this energy and we’re improving their lives and livelihoods.

AMY GOODMAN: Amazing, the amount of solar energy you have in Africa, to say the least, but how little solar power is funded in Africa.

OMAR ELMAWI: And that’s very true, because Africa has the potential to provide over 40% of the world capacity or potential for solar, but only 1% currently of the generation is from solar in Africa. What this tells you is that we have opportunities. We have an opportunity here to take advantage of this resource and actually make money out of it, because it’s not charity. It’s a business opportunity that businesses can do and make a lot of money off without necessarily impacting the people.

AMY GOODMAN: Omar Elmawi, we want to thank you so much for being with us. He’s campaign coordinator of the Stop East African Crude Oil Pipeline campaign, known as EACOP, and co-founder of deCOALonize.

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Indigenous Activists Tom Goldtooth & Eriel Deranger on the Link Between Colonialism & Climate Crisis
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow
NOVEMBER 17, 2022
https://www.democracynow.org/2022/11/17 ... h_at_cop27

Democracy Now! is broadcasting live from COP27, the U.N. climate conference in Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt, where hundreds of activists protested outside the plenary hall Thursday to demand climate justice. We speak to two Indigenous activists and land defenders at the summit, Eriel Tchekwie Deranger and Tom Goldtooth. “It is frontline communities, land defenders and Indigenous peoples that have experienced the loss of our territories at the hands of oil and gas and extractivism,” says Deranger, executive director of Indigenous Climate Action and member of the Athabasca Chipewyan First Nation. “Colonialism has to be addressed in these hallways, and there’s been lack of political will around that,” says Goldtooth, executive director of the Indigenous Environmental Network and member of the Diné and Dakota nations.

Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: Images and music played today to open the People’s Plenary here at COP27. Yes, this is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org. I’m Amy Goodman. We are broadcasting from the U.N. climate summit in Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt.

Hundreds of people, including climate activists, Indigenous people, workers, human rights activists and environmental defenders, gathered today for the People’s Plenary at COP27 just before we began this broadcast. They signed on to a People’s Declaration for Climate Justice that includes demands for the decolonization of economies and societies, the repaying of climate debt, and the defense of 1.5 degrees Celsius by reducing emissions to zero by 2030. The statement ends with a call for the release of the imprisoned Egyptian technologist, writer and activist Alaa Abd El-Fattah and all other prisoners of conscience. After the plenary ended, hundreds marched in protest outside the plenary hall.

AMY GOODMAN: I’m Amy Goodman. This is Democracy Now! We’re outside the U.N. COP plenary. We’ve just come from a People’s Plenary, where hundreds of people gathered to call for justice and sign off on a statement. The foreign minister of Egypt just passed by. Part of the statement was calling for freedom for the political prisoner Alaa Abd El-Fattah and other political prisoners held in Egypt. Behind us, they’re linking climate justice and human rights. They are shouting, “What do we want? Shut it down!” They’re calling for climate justice for defense of land, air and sea.

AMY GOODMAN: Well, as we continue to cover the U.N. climate summit, we spend the hour with Indigenous activists and land defenders across the Americas. We begin with two guests. Tom Goldtooth is executive director of the Indigenous Environmental Network. He’s a member of the Diné and Dakota nations and lives in Bemidji, Minnesota. He also happens to be the father of a Hollywood star. That’s Dallas Goldtooth, if you watch Reservation Dogs. Also with us is Eriel Tchekwie Deranger. She is a member of the Athabasca Chipewyan First Nation and the executive director of Indigenous Climate Action.

Tom and Eriel, welcome to Democracy Now! It’s great to have you both back. Eriel, let’s begin with you. I was sitting at the front of this People’s Plenary today. You were right there in the front. And this is as we come to the end of this two-week climate summit. You have been to so many in the past, for at least a decade. What are your biggest concerns right now?

ERIEL DERANGER: I think the reality is, is that the People’s Plenary has become a place for us to voice our concerns about the hypocrisy and the — the hypocrisy of what’s happening within the negotiations. The COPs have become a corporate playground as opposed to a place to come to agreements to address a global climate crisis. We are sidelining human rights, Indigenous rights and the environment to advance instead corporate false solutions.

And so we have to come forward and continue to stand in these spaces and demand more. As Indigenous peoples, we’ve been advocating for an alarm bell on climate change, for solutions that address the history of colonialism, violence on our lands and territories. And instead of those solutions driving the discourse of the negotiations, we’re seeing corporations putting forward false solutions that further entrench us into capitalism and colonialism.

AMY GOODMAN: “Loss and damage.” These are the words that if you go to any of the grassroots organizations that are here, the first three words out of their mouths. What exactly does it mean? And how seriously is this being taken by the countries that are involved with these negotiations?

ERIEL DERANGER: I think that’s a really good question. When it comes to loss and damage, for our communities, we have seen 500 years of colonialism in North America, in Turtle Island, and we have seen the loss and damages to our territories, to our cultures, to our lifeways. And this isn’t just something that’s in Turtle Island; this is across the planet. It is frontline communities, land defenders and Indigenous peoples that have experienced the loss of our lands and territories at the hands of oil and gas and extractivism.

And countries have made promises, all of these big fancy words and promises, to address these loss and damages. But how far back are they going? What do these commitments look like? And who is responsible for those loss and damages? And who is to receive them? Is it states that receive them from other states? How are we to ensure that there is direct resources to the communities that have experienced these loss and damages, as opposed to just new mechanisms for states to take and to further entrench our communities into more loss and damages in our homelands?

AMY GOODMAN: Tom Goldtooth, you were right there at the People’s Plenary, and you’ve been there for decades at these U.N. climate summits. Some of the young activists were born after the COPs began. What do you think of what has been accomplished at this point? And what do you want to see happen?

TOM GOLDTOOTH: Well, one of the very important terminologies that we organized around for this COP is the latest IPCC sixth report that mentions colonialism as a major factor to be considered as we address the climate crisis. And that’s very important as we look at colonialism, but also the colonialism that represents the financial institutions, colonialism that has affected the inability of world leaders, after the 27th year of coming back, to really seriously address keeping fossil fuels in the ground. That’s the elephant in the room. That has been the issue.

You know, so, with a lot of other progress that we have had and been part of as Indigenous peoples, the big issue still is making a commitment to have a global initiative to meet that Paris Agreement of a threshold 1.5 Celsius. And the world is not on track. The United States is way off. Countries, industrialized countries, are way off. So, that’s what I see is the big issue. And colonialism has to be addressed in these hallways, and there’s been lack of political will around that.

AMY GOODMAN: “Colonialism” often seen on people’s bumper stickers: “CO2lonialism.” Colonialism. Tom, the U.S. climate envoy, John Kerry, the former presidential candidate and senator, a few weeks ago, at The New York Times, said that loss and damage means liability and compensation, which is why they can’t deal with it. But there’s been a lot of pushback, and he’s changed what he has said somewhat. You’re from the United States but also sovereign nations in the United States, the Diné, the Navajo and the Dakota people. What does that mean to you for reservations, for nations, Indigenous nations in the United States?

TOM GOLDTOOTH: A couple days ago, I was fortunate to be at a meeting to where John Kerry sat on my left, and we kind of knocked elbows together —

AMY GOODMAN: He sat on your lap?

TOM GOLDTOOTH: On my left.

AMY GOODMAN: Oh, on your left!

TOM GOLDTOOTH: Yeah, L-E-F-T. Well, I don’t think if it would have been appropriate for him to sit on my lap. But he was on my left.

And we were able to exchange a couple notes together. And he took of concern the issues that I brought up about the continued issue around domestic issues of getting appropriations to address climate issues. It’s not just a adaptation, however, issue. It’s mitigation. How do we prevent our situation as American Indian and Alaska Native tribes to be able to positively look to our future? It concerns food sovereignty. It concerns, in fact, access to our lands that have been lost through the 371 treaties that have been violated by the United States. How do we get those lands back? And how do we protect our ecosystems, our biodiversity? Not through market mechanisms, which is a major mitigation plan of the United States, such as 30 by 30 conservation biodiversity offsets, our carbon market offsets, that do not cut emissions at source, by the way, and they’re just a mechanism to allow the polluters off the hook, so that they can go carbon-neutral but not cut their emissions at source.

So this is a major issue with us that I addressed to John as far as one of the climate reparation issues that we need to address as Native First Nation peoples, as American Indian tribes in the U.S. And he said he would get back to me and we would have meetings on it. He did say that they are looking at mechanisms to prevent — to create safeguards to prevent those things I mentioned, but we’re versed on that, too, around how safeguards are not really an adequate mechanism to address keeping fossil fuels in the ground.

AMY GOODMAN: You have been critical of the Inflation Reduction Act. Many felt at least it got some money toward renewable technologies. What’s your concern?

TOM GOLDTOOTH: Well, definitely, in America, we need jobs. We need to look at different methods of diversity in economic development. And Indigenous peoples and tribes, we’re there. We’re willing to meet and to work out things. We have an Indigenous Just Transition initiative that looks at that.

But the problem with this act is that it put millions of dollars into false solutions. For an example, in Department of Agriculture, there’s legislation, that’s already been couched, that allows climate-smart agriculture that puts the soil into our carbon market system of carbon sequestration. Again, this is part of a market system that does not cut emissions at source, and it also beefs up research and mechanisms to bring geoengineering now as a solution for mitigating climate.

And a lot of that, those technologies, have been a violation of the spiritual teachings that we have as Indigenous peoples. On carbon markets, bringing air into a market system to where it’s a property right issue, where they have to define whose property right is carbon before they can trade it as a commodity, that’s a violation of the sacred. So, how do we reconcile, as Indigenous people, living in a system, let alone our own self participating in a false system like that, to where the repercussions are very serious to us? For one thing, it does not address the climate issue.

AMY GOODMAN: So, Eriel Deranger, in Canada, Justin Trudeau did not come here. President Biden did. What is happening in Canada around pipeline politics, around overall energy, when it comes to the First Nations?

ERIEL DERANGER: You know, from my perspective, what it appears is that the Canadian government is creating a lot of flowery languages, a lot of promises that feel empty and devoid of actual critical mechanisms for implementation and on holding them accountable to their promises. Instead, what we’re seeing from the actual government when it comes to action on climate is they’re continuing to try to push dirty pipelines like the Trans Mountain pipeline, which is a tar sands pipeline that delivers tar sands from my territory in Treaty 8 to the coast and off to international markets. We’re seeing the continued expansion of the Alberta tar sands with plans not to even begin to slow down until after 2030.

This isn’t a just transition. This is not a strategy that addresses climate, and it’s not a strategy that addresses Indigenous rights. And Canada is hedging all of its bets on things like false solutions, carbon markets, Indigenous protected and conservation areas to offset their emissions, that does nothing, as Tom says, to cut emissions at source. Instead, what it does is it allows these corporations to continue business as usual. For me, that means that my territory continues to be ravaged by the Alberta tar sands. Our waterways, our animals, our species are continuing to decline in quality and health. Our peoples are not even able to hunt our bison anymore. There’s no protection for our species, because business is more important.

The question that I’ve heard pop up here in the hallways is: Who are we even trying to save the planet for anymore? It doesn’t seem like it’s for our people and our species and our relatives, but it’s for corporations, so they can continue to have a bottom line of billions of dollars to appease their shareholders.

AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to turn to someone who so deeply cared about all of these issues, like both of you, someone you both know very well, the longtime water protector Joye Braun, who died Sunday at her home in Eagle Butte, South Dakota, at the age of 53, citizen of the Cheyenne River Sioux Tribal Nation, organizer for Tom’s Indigenous Environmental Network, at the Sacred Stone resistance camp since the first day of the protest at Standing Rock against the Dakota Access Pipeline. This is Joye Braun on Democracy Now! last year.

JOYE BRAUN: We need to unite together to let this administration know that we are serious, and, you know, we’re tired. We go to all the hearings. We do the petitions. We make the phone calls. And it’s not working. They’re still allowing pipelines to go through illegally. Dakota Access pipeline is still an illegal pipeline. And, of course, they did not do a full EIS on Line 3, and they’re ignoring treaty rights on Line 5 and Mountain Valley pipeline.

AMY GOODMAN: So, that was Joye Braun last year. Tom Goldtooth, she worked with you at the Indigenous Environmental Network. Talk about — we were interviewing her when she was in Washington. What were you doing there?

TOM GOLDTOOTH: Well, you know, we have a campaign to lift up the issues around fossil fuels. We have a campaign lifting up that we have solutions like our Indigenous principles of just transition. So this was the issue we needed to lift up, the whole contradiction of the U.S. continuing business as usual with fossil fuels.

And so, she was there as our pipeline organizer. And part of her role is to network and bring together all the different frontlines dealing with pipelines. And she definitely — she was our warrior woman. But she had such love and compassion for the people and for Mother Earth.

And we’re still devastated, you know, in this loss. We were here, and when we heard about it — I got woken up in the middle of the night, our time, and it was her daughter, Morgan Brings Plenty, who found her. And she’s working with us in the media area, too. So, you know, it was a setback, definitely. But, you know, in many ways, she was one of those type of women that said, “You’ve got to go on. You’ve got to fight the fight. Be strong.” And this is hard work, especially as Indigenous peoples fighting for a long history of colonialism, fighting for our land and our rights, our food system. She was always that person, and close to her family. You know, a lot of people don’t know her beloved puppy dog passed away just a matter of days after when she passed away.

But she gives hope to us. We had a big gathering here, and a lot of people here globally came to honor her memory. And we had prayer and song from all cultures. And it’s part of the movement building that we’re experiencing here at this COP that continues on from Glasgow, civil society coming together.

AMY GOODMAN: Eriel, I give you the final words on Joye Braun.

ERIEL DERANGER: Yeah. I think I just want to say, and honor her memory, that she came up to our territory as a part of one of Indigenous Climate Action’s land camps, where we were bringing together land defenders and pipeline defenders coming to our territories. And she really brought so much spirit, and she really lived up to her name, as Joye, and really brought us together to really galvanize us from her experiences in Standing Rock. And she brings that spirit here now, even though she can’t be with us.

AMY GOODMAN: Well, Eriel Tchekwie Deranger, executive director of Indigenous Climate Action, she lives in Edmonton, Alberta, in Canada. And Tom Goldtooth, the executive director of the Indigenous Environmental Network, he lives usually in Bemidji, Minnesota. But they are both here at the U.N. climate summit in Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt.

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Amazon Leader Welcomes Climate Vow from Brazil’s Lula to End Deforestation with Indigenous Help
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow
NOVEMBER 17, 2022
https://www.democracynow.org/2022/11/17 ... lula_cop27

Brazilian President-elect Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva addressed world leaders at the U.N. climate conference in Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt, on Wednesday, vowing to end deforestation of the Amazon rainforest and create a ministry to represent Indigenous peoples in his government. Brazil’s new approach to climate change aims to reverse outgoing far-right President Jair Bolsonaro’s policies that have devastated Indigenous lands. “With Lula’s support, we can fight against deforestation and support Indigenous peoples in protecting and confronting the threats they face, including assassinations and human rights violations,” says Gregório Mirabal, an Indigenous leader from the Venezuelan Amazon. His colleague Atossa Soltani, board president of Amazon Watch, translated for him.

Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: Well, earlier this week, on Wednesday, the Brazilian President-elect Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva spoke. He pledged to recommit Brazil to tackling the climate crisis as he replaces far-right President Jair Bolsonaro.

PRESIDENT-ELECT LUIZ INÁCIO LULA DA SILVA: [translated] The planet warns all of us of the time that we need each other to survive. Alone, we are vulnerable to climate tragedies. However, we ignore these alerts. We spend trillions of dollars on wars that bring destruction and death, while 900 million people in the world don’t have something to eat. …

No one is safe. Climate emergency affects everyone, although its effects affect more vulnerable people. Inequality between the rich and the poor manifests itself even in the efforts to reduce effects of climate change. …

Dear companions, there is no climate security for the world without a protected Amazon. We will spare no efforts to have zero deforestation and the degradation of our biomes by 2030. …

We are going to rigorously punish those responsible for any illegal activity, whether it’s mining, gold digging, wood extraction or agricultural occupation. These crimes affect mostly the Indigenous people. That is why we will create the Ministry of Indigenous People, so that Indigenous people present to the government policies that guarantee them their survival, security, peace and sustainability. …

The second initiative is to put forward Brazil as a host for COP30 in 2025. We will be increasingly assertive in the face of the challenges of climate change. We will be aligned to the compromises made in Paris, and driven by the quest for decarbonization of the global economy.

AMY GOODMAN: That’s Brazilian President-elect Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva speaking at the U.N. climate summit here in Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt. The former president is due to take office January, when he will replace Brazil’s far-right President Jair Bolsonaro, who oversaw major deforestation of the Amazon and deregulation of extractive industries as Indigenous environmental leaders and also journalists were systematically killed and attacked.

Nearly 60% of the Amazon rainforest falls within Brazil’s borders, and its future depends in part on the direction President-elect Lula takes. As Democracy Now! broadcasts from COP27 here in Egypt, on Tuesday, we spoke about this and more with Gregório Mirabal, Coordinator of the Indigenous Organizations of the Amazon Basin, or COICA. He’s an Indigenous leader from the Venezuelan Amazon and one of the highest-profile people from the Amazon at this summit. His colleague, Atossa Soltani, interpreted for him. She’s the director of global strategy for the Amazon Sacred Headwaters Initiative, founder and board president of Amazon Watch. I asked Gregório Mirabal what he is calling for here at COP27.

GREGÓRIO MIRABAL: [translated] First, I want to thank you for giving us this opportunity to share with you our dreams, our visions and our aspirations.

We’re here because last year in Glasgow a lot of promises were made to support Indigenous peoples, technically, financially and politically. Towards implementation of this action, we are back here working to make sure that there’s implementation of those promises. So far there hasn’t been progress.

Once again, we’re here to say that the Amazon is reaching a point of no return. We announced that last year, and we’re here again saying that the Amazon needs urgent action, and we Indigenous peoples are bringing forth solutions. Scientists agree that Indigenous peoples are doing the best job as protectors of the forest and that Indigenous solutions need to be supported. So, once again, we’re here to demand the technical, political and financial support that we need to continue to protect our forest and avoid the tipping point.

AMY GOODMAN: The significance of the Atabapo River, which now sits at the tri-border of Brazil, Colombia and Venezuela?

GREGÓRIO MIRABAL: [translated] Where I live, where I come from, is the union of four important rivers: the Atabapo, the Guainia, the Río Negro and the Orinoco. This conjunction, this confluence of these rivers are one of the largest confluences within the Amazon basin, and they flow — these rivers eventually flow to the Amazon. It was NASA who discovered that the deserts in the Sahara of Africa bring much-needed nutrients and are connected to the Amazon basin and feed the Amazon basin. And the Amazon basin creates flying rivers that feed the world, that are vital for the planet. So we are here to say that these four rivers are vital for the future of life on the planet.

AMY GOODMAN: One of these major Amazon countries, Brazil, has a new leader, Lula, Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva. He will be president again. And he’s also at this summit, like you are, Gregório. I’m wondering if you can talk about his significance and what happened to the Amazon under the Brazilian President Bolsonaro?

GREGÓRIO MIRABAL: [translated] The importance of having Lula here is that we are seeing a political shift. Lula, in his election, had committed to support us, support Indigenous peoples, support biodiversity, support the future of the rainforest, and that this is — with Lula’s support, we can fight against deforestation and support Indigenous peoples in protecting and confronting the threats they face, including assassinations and human rights violations.

Bolsonaro was bent on the destruction of the Amazon. Under his leadership, we saw an increase in deforestation. And we saw an increase in human rights violations for all of the Indigenous peoples. Bolsonaro put at risk the entire Amazon basin, as well as all of humanity.

With Lula coming into office, we are hopeful that he will follow through with his promises to protect the Amazon and to avoid a tipping point and to help Indigenous peoples protect their territories.

AMY GOODMAN: You’re from the area that is known as Venezuela. What is your assessment of Maduro, the president of Venezuela, and his treatment of Indigenous people and the Amazon region?

GREGÓRIO MIRABAL: [translated] The last four years, I’ve been focused on all of the Amazon basin. But what I can tell you, that the big threats to the Venezuelan Amazon are deforestation and illegal mining, and that for years this has been increasing. The rate of deforestation has been increasing.

However, recently, President Petro of Colombia has managed to convince President Maduro to come back to the negotiations here at COP to step up into his commitment to protect the forest, to join the efforts of Lula, Petro and the world in protecting the Amazon. And hopefully, that’s not just a promise and that it is actually what ends up happening, because we are urgently needing for this to happen.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about the most powerful corporations, what they’re doing to the Amazon, and also this whole issue of loss and damage, U.N. speak for reparations by the wealthiest, most polluting countries? The U.S. is the historically largest greenhouse gas emitter in the world, China the largest current greenhouse gas emitter. What is their responsibility to the Amazon, and what can they do to repair it?

GREGÓRIO MIRABAL: [translated] Saving the Amazon is going to cost billions of dollars, a lot of money. However, when you consider the amount of money spent in the Ukraine-Russia war, it’s equivalent to about three days of what we’re spending in that war to save the Amazon.

However, there are also irreversible damages, irreversible loss happening to the Amazon. And this is caused by a lot of petroleum drilling, by monoculture, cattle ranching and gold. These irreversible harms, irreparable harms are being a responsibility of big countries like China, Russia, the United States, and that they need to take responsibility for restoring and repairing the harm they’re creating in the Amazon.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about what it means to be an Indigenous land defender? Latin America is the deadliest place for environmentalists like you. How do you both defend the land and defend yourselves?

GREGÓRIO MIRABAL: [translated] In this moment, we’re calling for the ratification of the Escazú Agreement. This agreement would help to prevent assassinations and persecution of Indigenous land defenders. Right now to be a defender of the forest in Ecuador, Peru, Colombia or Brazil, it is really literally accepting a death sentence. What we’re seeing in many cases, Indigenous peoples have been charged with lawsuits, have been basically sued and are facing criminal charges. For example, the leader of the Indigenous peoples of Ecuador, Leonidas Iza, has 16 cases, 16 charges against him. And so, for leaders in the Amazon, we have to protect their life and their ability to be defenders. In each day two Indigenous leaders are assassinated in the Amazon basin. And this has to change.

AMY GOODMAN: Gregório Mirabal, Indigenous climate activist from the Venezuelan Amazon, coordinator of COICA. That is the Indigenous Organizations of the Amazon Basin.

Coming up, we hear from more Indigenous land defenders, from Central America, from Guatemala and Mexico. Stay with us.

[break]

AMY GOODMAN: Chief Ninawa Huni Kui, president-elect of the Huni Kui Federation in the Brazilian state of Acre. He was performing today, praying today, at the People’s Plenary, just an hour before we went to broadcast. To see our interview with him at the COP in Lima, Peru, several years ago, go to democracynow.org.

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At COP27 Indigenous Land Defenders from Mexico, Guatemala Warn “Green Capitalism” Creates Violence
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow
NOVEMBER 17, 2022
https://www.democracynow.org/2022/11/17 ... mala_green

We continue our coverage of the U.N. climate conference in Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt, by asking what Indigenous leaders at the frontlines of the climate crisis are calling for from world leaders. We speak to Andrea Ixchíu, a land defender from Guatemala, and Rosa Marina Flores Cruz, an Afro-Indigenous activist from Mexico, who are both part of the Futuros Indígenas collective. They discuss how their countries’ megaprojects and big business are devastating Indigenous communities. “Green capitalism is affecting our communities. It’s displacing people. It’s creating violence,” says Ixchíu. Amid the murder and persecution of climate activists across Latin America, “defend[ing] the land is one of the most difficult and dangerous activities that we can do,” says Cruz.

Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now! We’re broadcasting from the U.N. climate summit in Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt. I’m Amy Goodman.

We end today with two Indigenous land defenders from Latin America. Andrea Ixchíu is a Maya K’iche’ leader, journalist, human rights and environmental defender from Guatemala. Also with us, Rosa Marina Flores Cruz, an Indigenous activist and organizer from the Isthmus of Tehuantepec in the state of Oaxaca, Mexico. They both traveled to COP27 with the collective Futuros Indígenas, Indigenous Futures.

We welcome you both to Democracy Now! Andrea, let’s begin with you. The significance of what’s taking place today? We just heard from a representative of the Amazon talking about Venezuela, Brazil, the lungs of the planet. We don’t as often hear from Indigenous defenders in Central America. Talk about why you’re here.

ANDREA IXCHÍU: Well, we are here because we are also wanting to talk about what means the energy transition to our territories. In the name of a green transition and the creation of renewable energies, Guatemala and the territories of Central America are suffering a lot of exploitation of our lands and our territories. A lot of this green capitalism, it’s affecting our communities, is displacing people, is creating violence, corruption, and also is perpetuating the genocide and the ecocide in Guatemala and in our territories.

AMY GOODMAN: And what’s your experience been like here at COP27 in Egypt?

ANDREA IXCHÍU: Well, we do know that the expectations about the rich and the powerful, you know, giving solutions to the climate crisis is not our horizon. We are here to create connections between the grassroots movements, because the real climate solutions are going to be built by the ones that are very close to earth, right down below, not from the people on the top.

We are here also to make clear to the decision-makers that we are not going to allow that all this green pollution is coming to our territories. We are saying to them that we will not allow it, that we will resist.

And we are here looking a lot of hypocrisy, a lot of the negotiators of the Big Oil companies coming here and been listening and participating in the negotiations, while the Indigenous and young activists are being booted out from these places for protesting and for demanding, you know, fair trade and just transition from the fossil fuel industry. So, I think there’s a lot of hypocrisy inside of this space.

We are very disappointed in the way that they are trying to create a very, you know, illusion of multicultural space for dialogue, but it’s not true. There’s a lot of rules for us. We cannot do protests. We cannot do mobilizations. And there’s a lot of repression in this society. So, we are coming here and looking at these conferences, and we already knew that the solutions for the climate crisis are not coming from here.

AMY GOODMAN: Andrea, I was wondering if you can link the U.S. relationship with Guatemala to the issue of climate devastation in your country. 1953, the U.S. supports a coup against Mohammad Mosaddegh in Iran. 1954, one year later, John Foster Dulles, the secretary of state — he was a corporate attorney for United Fruit — is involved in the overthrow of the democratically elected leader of Guatemala, Jacobo Árbenz. How does that relate to what we’re seeing today?

ANDREA IXCHÍU: The United States had financed a very long history of genocide and ecocide in Guatemala, and also the protection of the monocultive industry and the extractive industry. There is a lot of corporate business related to the U.S. in Guatemala. And also, the U.S. policies are financing our government to keep and remain the war against the Indigenous peoples and communities that are defending the land, the rivers, our ways of living and existing. So there is a very long and nasty relationship from these private corporations, from the U.S. government, with the corrupt authoritarian regime in Guatemala, that at this very moment is putting into exile activists, judges, journalists, and they keep financing that extermination of our territories and our lands.

AMY GOODMAN: So what are you demanding?

ANDREA IXCHÍU: We are demanding that the money is not going to solve the problems of green colonialism in our territories. We are demanding to the United States government to stop financing the extermination of Indigenous peoples in Guatemala.

AMY GOODMAN: Rosa Marina Flores Cruz is with us from Oaxaca, from the southern state of Mexico. Talk about your concerns about the climate as you come here to COP27.

ROSA MARINA FLORES CRUZ: Yes. Well, us, as part of the delegation of Defenders of the Earth, we try to bring the voices and the demands of different Indigenous nations in our country. We are here, people like me. In my region, we are living the impact of the windmills, that are grabbing the lands and dispossessing the territories of the Indigenous binnizá and ikoojts in our region. This green energy is selling — is here, is being discussed — is discussed here like a solution, and we are in our territories confronting how the organized crime is really close to the companies and to the governments who are deciding, deciding that this is the solution and we need to take it in our territories and give them our space for them to make more money. Also, there is people in our delegation who is facing the — deforestación?

ANDREA IXCHÍU: Deforestation.

ROSA MARINA FLORES CRUZ: Deforestation of their lands to create monocultives for avocados and for other kind of crops, like selling also this idea that the vegetables are the solution about the climate crisis, and they are dispossessing the lands of the Indigenous communities. We are facing dams. We are facing a lot of megaprojects that are putting in risk our lives. And that’s why we are here, to say that, as Indigenous people, we have to — we need to be respect our decisions and our agency. We are totally able to decide what we want in our lands and in our territory. And the decisions not just come — must come only from the upside. We need to be heard, and we need to be respect.

AMY GOODMAN: Your father is from an Afro community —

ROSA MARINA FLORES CRUZ: Yes.

AMY GOODMAN: — in Mexico.

ROSA MARINA FLORES CRUZ: Yes.

AMY GOODMAN: Your mother, from the Isthmus of Tehuantepec. If you can talk about how your heritage informs your climate activism?

ROSA MARINA FLORES CRUZ: Yes. Well, yes, my dad, he is from Cuajinicuilapa, from the Small Coast, Costa Chica, in Guerrero. But I grew up in my Indigenous community. I grew up in Juchitán. My mom, my grandma before her, they will be how the people outside call activists, since ever. So, they always had been fighting for the lands and for the respect of the rights of the community and for the respect of the Indigenous communities. There is where my heritage comes. So, since I born, I always have known that I must defend my land and I must be really proud about who I am.

AMY GOODMAN: And let’s talk about how dangerous that activism is. A report from the nonprofit Global Witness this year revealed that Mexico saw 54 environmental and land defenders killed in 2021, making it one of the most dangerous places in the world to be a climate activist. I mean, in our headlines through this year, every other week it seemed we were reporting on a Mexican journalist, for example, who was also killed. Talk about what the stakes are in Mexico.

ROSA MARINA FLORES CRUZ: Yes. Just the last week was murdered another defender of the forest in the center of Mexico. Defend the land is one of the most difficult and dangerous activities that we can do. My own family, we had to leave our region for six months several years ago because of the fight of my mom against the windmill projects. And also, in our network, we have compañeras who are being now — perseguidas?

ANDREA IXCHÍU: Persecuted.

ROSA MARINA FLORES CRUZ: Persecuted for her work in defense of the land and against pipelines and against these megaprojects that the government of Mexico is pushing in our territories.

AMY GOODMAN: What are these megaprojects?

ROSA MARINA FLORES CRUZ: The Maya Train. Like, it’s this big touristic project that they are — like, again, they are putting the Indigenous people, the Maya Indigenous people, as objects for the tourism. And they are building this big train that is going to cross, to turn out all the peninsula of Yucatán. Also, we have the interoceanic train in my region, in the Isthmus of Tehuantepec, that is like another Panama Canal, that they want to build, like, in the ground. And for us, that we are already living the impacts of the megaprojects. And for the other compañera, she is dealing with the pipeline, the Project Integral Morelos, that has been trying to be built in a volcano. So, it’s really dangerous for them as communities to have these kind of projects, and the government is just giving more and more impulse to these kind of things.

AMY GOODMAN: And finally, Andrea Ixchíu, as you talk about Guatemala, if you can talk about the — and name names. And it’s something you pointed out at the beginning. Here at COP, people should understand that you cannot name names in protests of countries, of individuals, of corporations, if anyone thought the protest is free. And it’s not just because it’s in Egypt. It happens every year. You can have a protest, but not talk about the country you’re talking about. As we wrap up, specifically talk about what you’re facing in Guatemala when it comes to megaprojects.

ANDREA IXCHÍU: We are talking about big business, for example, the CGN-Pronico-Maya company, that it’s exterminating the Maya Q’eqchi’ population. Just yesterday, a very big group of Indigenous Maya Q’eqchi’ people was arrested because this company is forcing them to — and displacing them from their land, just to keep building this big mining company that is going to be for the extraction of minerals for the energetic transition.

Also, the big megaprojects as dams that are financed by the president of the Real Madrid, Florentino Pérez, who is owning one of the biggest hydroelectrical dams in Guatemala, the project Oxec, that is right now creating the prosecution and criminalization of several members of the Maya Q’eqchi’ communities.

In my territory, the interest of big capital to deforest there, deforestate our common and ancestral land, is also growing.

So, there is a lot of private corporate business that are trying to see — that are seeing our territories as profits, as money, and not as the living systems that means for us and that we have, you know, take care for thousands of years, and that has allowed us to live and also allow to have the climate solutions, because the climate solutions are already here. The climate solutions are in the ancestral science of Indigenous communities and knowledges. So, we are demeaning that to be respected.

AMY GOODMAN: I want to thank you both so much for being with us, Andrea Ixchíu, Maya K’iche’ journalist and activist from Guatemala; Rosa Marina Flores Cruz, Indigenous activist from Oaxaca, Mexico, both with the collective Futuros Indígenas. That’s Indigenous Futures, here at the U.N. climate summit in Sharm el-Sheikh.

And now for an update about the case of Alaa Abd El-Fattah. His family visited with him today in the Wadi el-Natrun Prison. His sister Mona Seif, who was not there today, tweeted, “The news from the visit is not good. Alaa suffered a lot in this last period, but at least they saw him, and he needed to see them very much. The family says they’ll share more details later this afternoon. We’ll tweet them out, and we’ll have more on Alaa’s case on Friday’s program. That does it for our show.