‘Democrats pretend to be the lesser evil’: Jill Stein on the US election
The Take
Al Jazeera English
Nov 1, 2024
Green Party presidential candidate Jill Stein is polling at 2% nationally, drawing attention from US voters as the ‘anti-genocide’ candidate for her opposition to US support for Israel. Her opponents in the Democratic Party label her a “spoiler” in key swing states. So what is she trying to achieve – and what does her candidacy say about the state of US democracy?
Transcript
Al jazer podcasts today is this the
candidate who could decide the US
election if you vote for either of those
candidates you are endorsing genocide
and you are enabling it do not make a
deal with the devil here we actually
have a way forward with just days to go
before the vote we speak to Green Party
candidate Jill Stein on why she's
running for president I'm Malika Bilal
and this is the take
[Music]
welcome to the take Dr Stein it is
really good to have you here for this
conversation we are just days away from
the US election an election many are
calling one of the most consequential of
our time but you've been here before
running in 2012 and
2016 this year you are again running
against Republican presidential
candidate Donald Trump and a newer
opponent
Democratic candidate kamla Harris vice
president Harris gave her closing
argument this week from in front of the
White House former president Trump held
one of his final rallies at the massive
Madison Square Garden arena in New York
but you are a third-party candidate in a
staunchly two-party system in this
country so what does the week before
election day look like for
you it's um an intensive week while the
other candidates the usual candidates
from the political Elites have been
drilling their message down uh for the
American public for just about a year if
not more they've had months and months
to get their message out we have only
just begun because as a third party
there are so many obstacles to bringing
a choice to the American people in a
nutshell the choice that we bring is an
anti-genocide
anti-war pro-worker climate action
Choice which is actually a choice that
the American people are desperate to
have so for us it's a first opportunity
really to tell the American people that
a choice is here a choice that the
American people are hungry for that
provides Health Care as a human right
that provides affordable housing as a
human right that will uh eliminate uh
education debt and medical debt
and the climate crisis it needs our
dollars and our support like so many
things do but both political parties
which are bought and paid for by Wall
Street and the war machine are spending
over half of our Congressional Budget on
basically that endless war machine
including the genocide going on in Gaza
and this is like the situation that real
Challengers to the status quo the War
Machine machine the Wall Street Machine
this is what we always face and this is
my third run for this office and we have
never seen anything like this there is
such a ground swell as people wake up to
our campaign in fact the Democrats who
have tried from the very start to throw
us off the
ballot okay so you talked about the core
issue for so many voters who you've
talked to and that is um Israel war in
Gaza and the growing and expanding of
that war you've positioned yourself as
the anti-genocide candidate in this
election and you've been incredibly
outspoken against Israel's war you've
called for a ceasefire and arms
embargo in April you were even arrested
at a pro Palestine rally in St
Louis when did support for Palestinian
rights become a core issue for
you let me say
that I grew up just after the Holocaust
you know in a Jewish Community attending
a reformed synagogue singing in the
children's choir and my community was
grappling with the question is there
life after
genocide and the dialogue that we had
arrived at the solution that we will
move forward we will affirm life after
genocide by by confirming that we will
not allow genocide to happen again not
not to anyone I made my peace with this
issue as a child you remember
formulating that position back then yes
I grew up with the intention to be a
social justice Advocate and an advocate
for human rights and for peace and that
I would be part of that fight against
any genocide if I saw a hint of it I had
a strong uh ethic really to become a
doctor to help make uh peace in the
world to help adj to help address you
know the causes of Despair death and
suffering so I never saw myself having
anything to do with politics until I was
an activist you know I began to see that
we cannot change you know what ails US
unless we address the mother of all
illnesses Our Sick political system and
that's when I got tricked into running
for office by the green party I was not
a member of any party uh prior to that
and you know and the greens uh basically
we had won uh Public Funding for
elections and the greens came to me and
said you're already running on all those
issues why not make it a political
campaign and speak to a larger audience
so I got political out of desperation
because nothing else was working I want
to pause on because you said you got
political out of desperation and that
feels exactly like what this moment is
in my own community and what I'm seeing
on social media and from the youth from
Muslim Americans from Americans so talk
to me about how that upbringing and your
desperation has turned into what we're
seeing now the anti-genocide candidate
yes so that desperation that drove me to
political action was really transformed
in the course of conducting an election
you know when you run for office you're
kind of public uh property and you talk
to everybody and you talk to people on
the street and you talk to people when
you're flying in the middle seat on
airplanes and you know we run a
people-powered campaign so there's
really uh no barrier between me as a
candidate and the public and our events
you know take place in uh coffee shops
and the school auditoriums and you know
very public places uh where everyday
people are coming and in fact they are
thronging right now so our events with
36 hours um you know lead time are
absolutely over whelmed now it's not
only standing room it's like out the
doors because people are so hungry for
this I was so inspired as you said it's
a system what you learned as an activist
you learned even further as a candidate
so if it's a
system let's say you are elected
president what do you do on day one day
two that changes this systemic rot as
you're calling it exactly fortunately
there are many things that a president
can do on the first day that she is in
office and in fact even before she is
inaugurated if I were to win this
election on November 5th and we can come
back to why that is not impossible right
now and we should not be talked into
hopelessness and powerlessness about
that the very following morning I would
pick up the phone and I would call BB
Netanyahu and tell him that his war is
over and put it in no uncertain terms
because we are funding this war we are
arming this war we're providing
diplomatic cover and intelligence for
this war so are in control just like
Ronald Reagan did in 1982 when he picked
up the phone and instructed manakum Bean
then the president that the Israel's war
in Lebanon was over Israel is very much
a proxy for the United States this is
our war every bit as much as it is
Israel's war we need to be an adult in
the room working with other nations
according to international law human
rights and diplomacy you've talked about
your position on Gaza and that is a
position that has made you very popular
to many Muslim and AR American voters as
well as the pick of your vice
presidential candidate uh Professor but
wear a black Muslim
American but these groups are of course
not a monolith and there are some
particularly those in the
syrian-american community who have
qualms with what they see as your stance
on Syria civil war which you have said
was coming from a place of the party's
view on being
non-interventionist but like Syria
there are other countries with poor
human rights records Russia China for
instance where you haven't been as quick
or as strong in your condemnation as you
have been with the US and with Israel
and it can look like an inconsistency
when it comes to foreign policy and I
wonder how you respond to that so let me
clarify that we have always supported
the uh the human rights of people in
Russia in Syria throughout the Middle
East and there was a um what can I say
sort of uh a misinformation campaign
that I was supporting Assad that is not
true I have never spoken in support of
Assad um nor in support of Russia uh and
its human rights record we've not shall
we say I try to avoid using inflammatory
language because at the end of the day
we have to negotiate with our
adversaries as well as our allies and in
fact I was in Moscow for a um uh for a
global uh uh press event and as part of
that I was calling out Vladimir Putin
for his bombing campaign against Syria
so it's you know it's just not true that
we have been on the side of dictators
and I hear you there and I know that
people watching will say well you made
those comments in Russia but not at the
table where you were photographed with
Putin or you are giving this Viewpoint
and yet there's a video circulating
online right now about you not feeling
comfortable calling China's campaign
against weager Muslims there a genocide
or feeling like you know enough to speak
about what's happening how do you
respond to that
criticism yes so first of all Vladimir
Putin walked into that that room and by
the way he was listening to my address
to the conference that day he said as
much in his speech that he was listening
to what people were saying and he found
that interesting he was at the table
only for a few minutes speaking only
Russian surrounded by his uh you know
his codery and he then went up and gave
a speech in Russian and then walked out
I would have loved to have talked with
him but I was able to put my message out
to him by being a part of the Forum and
having about 10 or 15 minutes where I
could basically communicate the key
issues for me and those were that we
need a ceasefire we need to end all the
bombing campaigns in the Middle East we
need to abandon nuclear weapons and we
need a global Green New Deal so I was by
no means shy about our uh our mission
and our our issues and hoping you know
very much to be able to open dialogue
for further communication on this as far
as bib Netanyahu goes you know he will
not dialogue I mean he's he um he is the
opposite of dialogue and diplomacy I
don't mince words about BB Netanyahu he
needs to be called out as the um you
know as the worst war
criminal uh walking the Earth at the
moment Dr s I think that is the point
and I'm going to move on in just a bit
but because you don't mince words and
that is what your supporters love about
you that is what some of your detractors
are saying is the problem here very
briefly can you touch on the weager
issue because that's what I'm seeing
making the rounds amongst Muslim
Americans who are unhappy and who want
to give you more full-throated support
but can't so let me say I'm glad that we
are not funding the uh the human rights
abuse and and the crimes being committed
against the Wagers we're not funding
that we are funding uh the genocide of
the people of Gaza so it deserves you
know it deserves the full focus of our
attention I now have a running mate who
himself is very familiar with these
issues so I'm in the process of being
informed he has certainly taken a stand
an unabashed stand and we are you know
he is advising me and I'm coming up to
speed uh it's very hard to know know you
know through the US uh mainstream media
what is the truth and we have
seen so much um death disaster uh
genocide committed because of the power
of the US War Machine and the power of
the US propaganda machine so as greens
were always very guarded about taking
these accusations at face value so that
is why we want to give them full uh
review and now that we have someone
who's very close to this issue you know
I look forward to coming out with a
statement soon that will help bring my
part of the agenda uh up to speed on the
weers uh as we have already done in
clarifying our position on Syria and on
Russia for that matter but what we have
complete agency over is not just the
words that we use but actually the
slaughter that is being conducted so
this is our first um you know our first
priority is to end this Slaughter and
you know it's not enough to open up the
delivery of humanitarian Aid as the
Harris Biden Administration sometimes
calls for that's not enough because that
Aid is going to be destroyed as it has
been destroyed we also have to stop the
genocide it's not enough to feed the
people who were then being targeted and
bombed and you know and and buried under
Rubble we have to stop
uh bearing them under the rubble as well
as providing them food and medical care
that can happen on day one more with Dr
Joe Stein after the
break Dr Stein I I I I I I want to talk
about how you get to day one and a topic
that most third party candidates
probably hate the most the idea of being
a spoiler candidate so let's talk swing
States a poll that came out last week
conducted by the New York Times in
Sienna College has you polling at 2%
nationally but there are other polls
that have you doing very well with Arab
and Muslim communities and voters
because of your stance in Gaza and
that's especially in key Battleground
States like
Michigan now you have heard this a lot
but many feel you cost Hillary Clinton
the election in 2016 because of small
margins in these swing States and that
you are therefore the reason that we had
a president Trump
many people are saying that again so I
want to hear from you are votes for you
in these Battleground States going to
decide this election so first of all
just to clear the record here people who
voted for my campaign in 2016 were
otherwise not voting so we provided a
reason for people to come to the polls
we were not taking votes away so it is
it is misinformation disinformation and
it is dis empowering and disrespectful
and anti-democratic let me say this
smear campaign that says that the
Democratic party owns your votes or that
the Republican Party owns your votes
they don't own your votes they have to
earn your votes they haven't earned your
votes which is why kamla Harris has lost
the support of the Muslim American
Community she doesn't want to talk about
that in fact there are also two polls
from about two weeks ago and what those
two different polls showed was that in
fact kamla Harris has already lost these
votes and in fact we're not drawing down
on on kamla Harris's vote we're drawing
down on Donald Trump's vote because
we're providing people who have already
decided they're not going to vote for
someone committing genocide someone who
has murdered dozens of their relatives
and we have one candidate who's actively
in the White House overseeing this
genocide and another Donald Trump who
has said let's hurry up and finish the
job there is nothing to lose and
everything to gain both in terms of
foreign policy but also in terms of the
assault on our democracy uh you can look
at any of the issues where the Democrats
pretend to be the Lesser evil but when
you actually dig down at the details
they are not the Lesser evil but Dr se
you you you said something you said
something that I know that some
listeners are going to take issue with
and you said that there is nothing to
lose only something to gain now on both
sides that will not be the same take you
have the Democratic side who say there
is everything to lose here and that you
are taking votes away from kamla Harris
so of course exit polls are not
scientific we can know there's no way to
know that 100% of those voters just were
not going to vote in 2016 we don't know
that again this year but that is what
the Democratic party says that you are
ushering in a trump
presidency that is what they will always
say the parties of abolition were called
spoilers because they dared to challenge
uh the institution of slavery so this is
what power does power will uh you know
attempt to hang on to power and the
Democratic party in in particular you
know we know that Donald Trump disrupted
the election by Try by trying to
interfere with a peaceful transfer of
power well the Democrats do that in
advance of the election by stripping the
election of opposition candidates that
is authoritarianism that is the Tyranny
that that the US complains about in
other countries they are doing it here
you have a lot of criticism for the
Democratic Party
arguably rightfully so because of the
attack ads they put out against you but
one of the criticisms about you is that
you don't talk enough about Trump and
the threats that he poses and so I want
to frame this in a way that's really
personal for people who are actually
fearful of what could happen under
another Trump presidency they cite
things like his role in inciting the
January 6th
Insurrection his plans to deport
millions of undocumented migrants in a
military operation the threats people
already face and will continue to face
unproductive rights what would your
message be to those people who say this
is existential foreign policy aside this
is what we're facing here in the US
absolutely and you know as I just
mentioned it's Donald Trump who
interferes with the peaceful transfer of
power and the Democrats do it on the
front end so it's not like we don't
criticize uh Republicans we absolutely
do in fact one of the things we always
say is that people are mad at the
Democrats because they make promises and
then they break them but the Republicans
never make promises in the first place
so they don't kind of inspire the same
kind of anger that the Democrats do and
let me just uh to that point you know
what moved the big uh the big shift of
the electorate uh into the Republican
Party happened after the uh 2008 Wall
Street Crash where the Democrats in two
houses of Congress and the Obama
Administration they bailed out Wall
Street so there's enormous reason here
which is driving the shift of the
elction
it's not that the Republicans are
solving any of this it's just that the
electorate is very angry at the
Democrats for having betrayed them but
to your point um about the deportations
uh there was a young uh Hispanic woman
who uh came to one of our house parties
the other night and she was like
Overjoyed to learn about our our uh
approach to immigration she said nobody
knows about this in my community they're
all voting for Donald Trump and I said
well why Trump she said because it's Joe
Biden who's been deporting our community
and this is actually true in spite of
Trump's horrific rhetoric throughout
it's the Democrats who've always been
the dep Porters in Chief on uh
Reproductive Rights you know both Barack
Obama and Joe Biden came into office
having promised that codifying row would
be the first thing that they would do
but they never did it when they had the
majorities to do it so do not believe
the propaganda that's telling you that
um you know that Donal Trump is the
greater evil in fact we have two greater
evils in this election and our job is to
vote for the greater
good so Dr Stein um I have one final
question but I I will preface it by
saying usually people say don't read the
comments but it is really remarkable
that under each of your media
appearances on YouTube at least the
comments are from my viewpoint I didn't
know about this and now I'm voting for
Jill Stein and butchar um so I want us I
want to talk about how you Galvanize
that after the election people will have
checked a box for you or for someone
else there will be a result that will be
as poll show unlikely to make you
president so stepping aside from
electoral policies and electoral
politics let's think about 2025 your own
should we say project 2025 either under
under a president Harris or a president
Trump how do you keep that momentum and
that movement going and and let me say
this is not new for us we as the Greek
party do not go away and this is why
we've been able to build in my first
race in 2012 we got half a million votes
something like that and then my 2016
race it was more like a million and a
half so we actually tripled our vote
because we are building we don't go away
we have over 150
uh elected officials at the local level
we've had over 1,500 elected officials
we are a
decentralized um political party that is
people powered across the country in the
course of this race we have had many new
communities stepping up and creating
green party chapters and running green
party candidates and I very much look
forward to working with activists all
over the country so we can stand up
together and we can keep the momentum
going because no matter what happens in
this election we have a genocide to stop
we have an Empire to uh dismantle we
have a democracy to reestablish we have
migrants to uh to defend uh the biggest
solution to the immigration problem is
to stop causing it in the first place
with endless Wars and regime change
operations and also with the War on
Drugs which empowers the cartels to
create their violence which is driving
people here all politics is local and we
are a Grassroots campaign we grow from
the bottom up the American people are
really hungry for a people-powered
politics that is of buy and for us
together we are unstoppable and we
really look forward to working with
everyone who has been mobilized in this
campaign to continue the
fight Dr gilstein thank you so much for
this conversation and for sharing the
green party stake with us it's been
really an honor to be with you Malika
thank you so very much
and that's the take what are your
thoughts on Jill Stein's candidacy let
us know in the comments below I'm always
checking in so let's keep the
conversation going and if you enjoyed
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