U.S. Backing Has Given Israel License to Kill & Maim

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No Tech for Apartheid: Google Workers Arrested for Protesting Company’s $1.2B Contract with Israel
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
April 17, 2024
https://www.democracynow.org/2024/4/17/ ... transcript

Democracy Now! speaks with two of the Google employees who were arrested staging sit-ins on Tuesday at the company’s offices in New York City and in Sunnyvale, California, to protest the tech giant’s work with the Israeli government. Organized by the group No Tech for Apartheid, the protesters are demanding Google withdraw from Project Nimbus, a $1.2 billion contract to provide cloud computing services to the Israeli military. “Google execs basically chose to arrest workers for speaking out against the use of our technology to power the first AI-powered genocide,” says Google software engineer Mohammad Khatami, who was arrested in New York. Google worker-organizer Ray Westrick, who was arrested occupying CEO Thomas Kurian’s office, says “more people are willing to organize and risk their jobs in order to take a stand against complicity in genocide.” We also speak with No Tech for Apartheid organizer and former Google worker Gabriel Schubiner, who calls on the tech industry to divest from Google and Amazon services. “Technology workers actually have a lot of power to shift this paradigm and to remove technology from this deep complicity with the Israeli occupation,” Schubiner says.

Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman in New York, with Juan González in Chicago.

Several Google employees, at least nine, were arrested Tuesday evening after staging sit-ins at the company’s offices in New York and in California to protest the tech giant’s work with the Israeli government. The sit-ins, organized by the activist group No Tech for Apartheid, took place at Google Cloud CEO Thomas Kurian’s office in Sunnyvale, California, and the 10th floor commons of Google’s New York office, which is right around the corner from Democracy Now!

Protesters are calling for Google to withdraw from a $1.2 billion contract to provide cloud computing services to the Israeli government, known as Project Nimbus. Last week, Time magazine reported Google’s work on the project involves providing direct services to the Israeli military.

The sit-ins were accompanied by outdoor protests at the Google offices here in New York and in Sunnyvale, San Francisco and Seattle, Washington. Workers and outside activists have opposed the contract since it was signed in 2021, but protests have ramped up over the past several months since Israel’s latest bombardment of Gaza.

No Tech for Apartheid says Google is enabling and profiting from Israel’s use of artificial intelligence to develop a “kill list” to target Palestinians in Gaza for assassination with little human oversight. The Israeli military is also using Google Photos for facial recognition across Gaza and the West Bank to identify and detain Palestinians en masse.

No Tech for Apartheid has published an open letter, co-signed by 18 other groups, that demands Google and Amazon immediately cancel their work on Project Nimbus. The letter has gathered more than 94,000 signatures from the general public.

For more, we’re joined by two of the arrested Google workers. Ray Westrick is with us. She’s a Google worker-organizer with the No Tech for Apartheid campaign, among the workers who occupied Google Cloud CEO Thomas Kurian’s office in Sunnyvale, California. She’s joining us from Sunnyvale. And here in New York, we’re joined by Mohammad Khatami, a Google software engineer who was arrested at the sit-in at Google’s office in New York. He’s joining us along with Gabriel Schubiner, a former software engineer at Google Research and an organizer with the No Tech for Apartheid campaign. And before that, he was with Jewish Diaspora in Tech.

We welcome you all to Democracy Now! Mohammad, let’s begin with you. You were, just hours ago, in the jail —

MOHAMMAD KHATAMI: That’s right.

AMY GOODMAN: — in the local police precinct. Talk about why you were willing to get arrested.

MOHAMMAD KHATAMI: Yeah. Well, rather than, you know, consider the demands that we’ve been raising for years now and listening to workers and considering the things that we’ve been raising, Thomas Kurian and Google execs basically chose to arrest workers for speaking out against the use of our technology to power the first AI-powered genocide. So, we were willing to get arrested for that, because at this point we aren’t willing to be lied to by our higher-ups anymore. We aren’t willing to be disrespected by our higher-ups anymore. And we wanted to take that to the offices and make sure it was understood by them, yeah.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: How do you sense is the support that you have among other Google workers, the degree of the dissatisfaction with the policies of Google?

MOHAMMAD KHATAMI: Yeah. I mean, Google has done a really good job at creating a culture of fear and retaliation against workers in general. But what we noticed was beautiful. So many people came up to our sit-in and basically showed support and felt that they were inspired by the work that we were doing, and felt inspired to speak out, which is exactly what we were going for. We want workers to feel like we have the power to choose where our technology is going and who we’re contributing to. So I felt really happy to see that, yeah.

AMY GOODMAN: Ray Westrick, you’re on the West Coast. You were arrested in California. Talk about this Project Nimbus and why you were willing to get arrested, and what the response — were you in the offices of the Google Cloud CEO?

RAY WESTRICK: Yes, we sat in at the office of Thomas Kurian, the Google Cloud CEO, to protest Project Nimbus, which is a $1.2 billion contract with the Israeli government and military between Google and Amazon. We also were demanding the protection of our co-workers, especially our Palestinian, Arab and Muslim co-workers, who have been consistently retaliated against, harassed and doxxed for speaking out about Project Nimbus and, you know, the humanity of Palestinians. So, we were there in solidarity with them. We were there to protest the contract, which is being directly sold — providing technology directly to the Israeli military as it inflicts a genocide on Palestinians in Gaza. And yeah, that is why we chose to sit in Thomas Kurian’s office.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Ray, could you — was there any response from the CEO or his office? And are you concerned about losing your job? Why — when did you decide to take this action?

RAY WESTRICK: Yeah. We did not receive any response from the CEO. And I think it’s really telling that they would rather let us sit there for over 10 hours and arrest us for peacefully sitting in his office than have leadership engage in our demands in any way at all. So, we’ve received no response from the CEO, and we were forcibly removed by the police.

And I — working at Google has been, you know, an honor. I really love my team. I love the work I do. But I can’t in good conscience not do anything while Google is a part of this contract, while Google is selling technology to the Israeli military, or any military. And so, it was a risk I was willing to take, and I think it’s a risk a lot of my co-workers are willing to take, because a lot of people are really agitated about this and have consistently made their demands clear and have faced retaliation for it. So, I chose to sit in, knowing the risks, out of care for the use of our technology, out of care for the impact of our technology and care for my co-workers.

AMY GOODMAN: For our radio audience, I wanted to let people know that Ray is wearing a T-shirt that says “Googler against genocide,” with “genocide” in the famous multicolor of “Google,” that it’s so well known for. I wanted to bring Gabriel Schubiner into this conversation, a former software engineer at Google Research, an organizer with the No Tech for Apartheid campaign, and ask you — you know, we had you on more than a year ago — this is before Israel’s latest attack on Gaza — talking about exactly this. And you were with a Jewish organization of Google workers at that time speaking out. Talk about the whole history of Project Nimbus.

GABRIEL SCHUBINER: Yeah.

AMY GOODMAN: And the resistance against it.

GABRIEL SCHUBINER: Yeah. Thank you so much.

So, Project Nimbus was signed in May of 2021 while bombs were being dropped on Gaza, while Palestinians were being evicted from Sheikh Jarrah and beaten at Al-Aqsa Mosque. That was really a point — when we found out about Project Nimbus, personally, for me, it was a turning point, where I no longer felt able to continue doing my work without engaging and organizing. There was a group of people that felt very similarly, so we started a petition. We were connected, got connected with Amazon workers, with community organizations, Jewish Voice for Peace and MPower Change, and spun a campaign out of that.

I want to be clear: Like, the campaign really is driven by worker concerns and worker needs around the ethical use of our labor, as well as the direct workplace concerns of the, like, health and safety concerns around working at a company that is facilitating genocide. We’ve known for a long time that this project was directly targeted at the military. It’s been reported in press that Google was giving trainings directly to the IOF. We know that Google gave trainings directly to Mossad. We know that the IOF —

AMY GOODMAN: When you say ”IOF,” explain the term.

GABRIEL SCHUBINER: I’m sorry, the — yes.

AMY GOODMAN: Because people are used to hearing ”IDF,” Israeli Defense Forces.

GABRIEL SCHUBINER: Right, yes. Yeah, it’s Israeli occupation forces, just to indicate, so we’re not repeating their messaging that their really aggressive repression of Palestinians is an act of defense. We know that it’s an act of occupation, so we say ”IOF.”

And so, we’ve known for a long time that this project was directly targeted at the Israeli military. But it was only recently, through this last contract that Google signed directly with the IOF, that we recognized that Google was really doubling down, that this contract is directly intended to facilitate military use. And we know that Google was chosen over other companies because of the advanced AI technology that they’re able to offer. So, given that we’ve learned how the IOF is using AI in this war, we really see this as like a really critical campaign for Palestinian liberation.

To speak to your point about the resistance against the project, we’ve been working against this project as workers for — since it was signed three years ago. We have been doing organizing. We have been doing, you know, base building and labor organizing. We’ve had protests externally and internally. We’ve had signed petitions. We’ve done outreach to our executives through internal forums, through chatrooms, through every available means, because, I think — you know, understanding, like, this contract really is — like, it really is an incredible issue for our work, like, all workers’ labor at Google. So many workers’ labor is contributing directly to this project, because all of the technology at Google is like deeply intertwined with each other. So, yeah, so we see this as really important, yeah.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Well, Gabe, I wanted to ask you — the average person, who’s not a Google worker, who might support your stand and who uses Google multiple times a day around the world, what are you calling for them to do?

GABRIEL SCHUBINER: Right. So, I mean, we’re calling for everyone around the world to really, like, help us with awareness, like, help us make it known that Google is a war profiteer. I think Google is so deeply embedded in people’s lives — right? — that it’s hard to ask for a boycott. But I think we’re calling specifically on people in the tech industry to divest from Google and Amazon. Google Cloud services and Amazon Web Services underlie a vast majority of the internet, but there are other options. So, technology workers actually have a lot of power to shift this paradigm and to, like, remove technology from this deep complicity with Israeli occupation.

AMY GOODMAN: Mohammad Khatami, can you talk about your own family background and why you so particularly care right now about what’s going on in Gaza?

MOHAMMAD KHATAMI: Yeah, yes. So, I come from a Muslim family. I was raised Muslim. And it’s really hard to wake up seeing the images of children slaughtered and know that your — you know, the work you’re doing is contributing to this. I’ve lost sleep. It’s just been extremely difficult to focus on work and think that you’re working for something that is contributing to the mass slaughter that’s taking place. And for speaking out against that, I’ve literally been called a supporter of terrorism, which is something that —

AMY GOODMAN: Called by?

MOHAMMAD KHATAMI: You know, by co-workers and HR and people in the company, a supporter of terrorism, which is, you know, something — it’s like a schoolyard insult. It’s something I haven’t heard since middle school. And that’s just an example of the retaliation and the harassment and the hatred that we face just for speaking up against our work being used in this way.

AMY GOODMAN: Are you concerned about losing your job?

MOHAMMAD KHATAMI: Absolutely. But it doesn’t — it’s not even important to me at all compared to working for something that is meaningful and having a good impact on the planet. I don’t want to have any association with this genocide. And I would hope that Google would change their mind about it, as well.

AMY GOODMAN: And finally, Ray Westrick, where do you see this movement going from here? And can you talk more about the Jewish-Muslim alliance around this among Google workers and former Google workers?

RAY WESTRICK: Yeah. I only see this movement growing and continuing to apply pressure. We received so much support during the sit-in. I’ve received so many personal messages from people, you know, thanking me for being vocal, and asking how they can be more vocal and get more involved. So I think this is absolutely growing. I think Google knows that this will continue, that, you know, workers are very agitated about this and will continue to speak up and apply pressure. And I think that’s why it was important for them to silence us. But this movement is growing, and more people are finding out about this, and more people are willing to organize and risk their jobs in order to take a stand against complicity in genocide.

AMY GOODMAN: Well, I want to thank —

RAY WESTRICK: And yeah, I think this has been a really unifying campaign for people of all backgrounds. And I know, specifically, a lot of us came together because we were specifically concerned about how Google has treated and retaliated against our Palestinian, Arab and Muslim colleagues, especially, like Mohammad mentioned, a lot of them have experienced harassment and doxxing for speaking out in like the appropriate channels at Google and have been consistently ignored and harassed and retaliated against. And so, we had to come together to say that we can’t let this happen anymore. We have to come together in protection of our co-workers and each other and in protection of, you know, the ethical use of our technology, to make sure that we’re not building technology that’s being used for harm. So, I think it’s been a really unifying campaign that is really grounded in taking care of each other and really grounded in making a positive impact and not facilitating more harm with technology.

AMY GOODMAN: I want to thank you all for being with us. Ray Westrick and Mohammad Khatami are both Google workers who were arrested yesterday, Ray in the offices of the Google Cloud CEO in Sunnyvale, California, and Mohammad here in New York. Also Gabriel Schubiner, a former software engineer at Google Research and an organizer with the No Tech for Apartheid campaign, before that, with Jewish Diaspora in Tech.

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Meet USC Valedictorian Asna Tabassum: School Cancels Commencement Speech by Pro-Palestinian Student
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
April 18, 2024
https://www.democracynow.org/2024/4/18/ ... transcript

Amid widespread repression of pro-Palestinian voices on campuses across the United States, we speak to University of Southern California valedictorian Asna Tabassum, whose commencement speech has been canceled for what the university claimed were “safety” reasons after Tabassum became the subject of an online anti-Palestinian hate campaign led by pro-Israel groups. “When I had asked for details regarding the security concerns,” says Tabassum of learning about the cancellation, “I was offered no information and was told it was not appropriate for me to know.” Tabassum, a first-generation South Asian American Muslim graduating with a major in biomedical engineering and a minor in resistance to genocide, says the unprecedented cancellation of her speech has been “heartbreaking.”

Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: Today we’ll look at the repression of pro-Palestinian voices on campuses across the United States. In a moment we’ll look at Wednesday’s congressional hearings where the president of Columbia University was grilled for hours about accusations of antisemitism on campus. But we begin with the University of Southern California, which continues to be rocked by controversy after canceling the commencement speech of its valedictorian for what it claimed were “safety” reasons after she became the subject of an online anti-Palestinian hate campaign.

AMY GOODMAN: Democracy Now! co-host Juan González and I interviewed Asna Tabassum, who is a first-generation South Asian American Muslim on Wednesday. I began by welcoming her to Democracy Now!

ASNA TABASSUM: Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

AMY GOODMAN: So, why don’t you give us the chronology of what happened? I mean, to be the valedictorian of this elite university, the University of Southern California, is such an enormous achievement. Can you talk about when you learned you’d become the valedictorian and when you learned you would be giving the speech at graduation? And what happened next?

ASNA TABASSUM: Absolutely. So, part of the selection process of becoming valedictorian is the willingness to give a speech during commencement. And so, when I got the call, I believe in the second week of March or so, it was during Ramadan, and I was incredibly happy to receive the honor and incredibly grateful. And that was the moment I also knew that I would have the chance and the opportunity to address my peers during commencement.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And when did you hear that the university had changed its mind? And who contacted you?

ASNA TABASSUM: Of course. So, I was contacted by the administration on Monday, actually, this past Monday, shortly before the statement was released, that I would unfortunately no longer be allowed to give the commencement address for the class of 2024.

AMY GOODMAN: How typical is that, Asna? Does the valedictorian always give the speech?

ASNA TABASSUM: Yes, as far as I know, in history of USC. And in fact, I asked the provost this himself, you know: Has this ever happened to a USC valedictorian? And in fact, I think we both agreed that, to the best of our knowledge, it has never happened before.

AMY GOODMAN: And what exactly did he say when he explained to you it was for safety reasons? Did he talk about — talk to you about what the threats are?

ASNA TABASSUM: So, that’s exactly the question here, is that I received no details as to what the security threats or what the security concerns were. You know, I heard that there were hundreds and thousands of emails sent to the university, but I was given no clue as to what the contents of these emails were, as well as, for example, the university had said that there were other security concerns in relation to having a big event such as commencement. But, you know, even details there were unclear. And so, when I had asked for details regarding the security concerns — for example, were they security concerns about me or my classmates? — I was offered no information and was told it was not appropriate for me to know.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Now, were you aware that pro-Israel student groups were targeting you on on social media, that a group called We Are Tov posted a photo of you on its Instagram account and claimed that you were, quote, “openly” — that you “openly promote antisemitic writings”?

ASNA TABASSUM: It’s honestly heartbreaking, yes. Once I was shortly — once I was announced on social media, through USC student media, it only took a few hours before such posts began circulating. And it launched a very generalized and, honestly, very hateful and disappointing campaign to remove me as valedictorian, yes.

AMY GOODMAN: I want to go to the issue that wasn’t raised by the provost, but in your Instagram bio, you link to a pro-Palestine landing page that reads, in part, “learn about what’s happening in palestine, and how to help.” Some students took to social media to express their opposition to it due to the language on the landing page. The website states, quote, “zionism is a racist settler-colonial ideology that advocates for a jewish ethnostate built on palestinian land.” The website also states, quote, “one palestinian state would mean palestinian liberation, and the complete abolishment of the state of israel,” end-quote. Can you talk about that and talk about when you linked to that page, and your feelings about this?

ASNA TABASSUM: Sure. So, there are a few points that I’d like to clarify. The first is that a university and students have the responsibility to engage in productive and meaningful discussion. And we’re allowed to learn from one another’s ideas and express those ideas so that we can all grow. And I think that that’s the beauty of an academic institution.

But another factor that I’d like to bring up is that there are other form — there are other pieces of information in that link. You know, there are paragraphs and information relating to the two-state solution, as well, as well as the one-state. The sentence right after the one you just quoted talks about coexistence between Arabs and Jews. You know, there’s a lot of factors here. And my goal in putting the link in my bio is simply to inform my fellow peers in the small ways that I can. But, ultimately, what I want people to take away is for people to inform themselves, come to their own conclusions, and then advocate for what they believe in.

And so, in no way am I advocating for hate. I am only advocating for human equality and for the sanctity of human life when I say that Palestinians, as well as Jews, as well as Muslims and Armenians and anyone else who is invested in this conflict, has the equal right to life and the equal privilege of the fullest extent to life.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Could you tell us more about yourself? You’re majoring in biomedical engineering and minoring in resistance to genocide. What inspired you to follow these courses of study?

ASNA TABASSUM: This is my favorite question, especially because, you know, as you might know, I’ve been doing a lot of interviews recently, and I wish people more talked about my biomedical engineering major, as well, because I think it’s an important part of who I am and my worldview.

That being said, the way that I see my major and my minor working together, for the very same goal, is that, you know, my minor in resistance to genocide allows me to study the human condition at possibly one of its worst conditions, and then biomedical engineering is my way of learning technically how we can improve the human condition through increasing health accessibility.

And so, the ways that I specifically see this are, for example, when I learn about the Rwandan genocide or the Holocaust or various other forms of genocides and conflicts through my minor, I look at the ways in which healthcare and health are impeded and the ways in which the quality of life are impeded, so that I can build devices and health technologies, using my major and using the education and the information I learn in my major of biomedical engineering, to see how we can develop low-cost and accessible point-of-care devices, so that we can improve the ways in which people experience healthcare when they are at their most in need of healthcare.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about, if you were giving the speech — I mean, this speech would be given in May — right? — at graduation. So isn’t there still a possibility that USC could change their mind? What would your speech be? What would you say to the USC community?

ASNA TABASSUM: So, you know, I actually have not considered and actually started writing my speech. But, of course, this experience is informing me how I want to go about it. But, ultimately, my message is one of hope. I think something that I truly believe in, given my familial background and, you know, the way I was raised, is that education is such a privilege. And using the ways that we have learned how to learn, it’s incumbent upon us to look at the world and see what we see, and then take information and make conclusions so that we can change the world in the ways that we want to. And so, in accordance with my message of hope, I also want to do a message of inspiration, so that our graduates and my peers can feel empowered to take on issues of world concern and see themselves in positions of making change.

AMY GOODMAN: You’ve talked about an online hate campaign against you. Can you describe more what you have received?

ASNA TABASSUM: Sure. You know, I’ve received incredibly disappointing comments. And I think it’s an unfortunate part of, you know, expressing who you are and expressing what you believe in. But I do want to call attention to the overwhelming support. And I think that anybody who is watching this unfold is seeing that various communities, from Muslim communities to Jewish communities to South Asian and first-generation American communities, all coming together to see this as something bigger and as something representative of a collective voice. And so, you know, while there is hatred out there, I do want to give my kudos to the people who have been seeing the inspiration and seeing the hope as this unfolds.

AMY GOODMAN: University of Southern California valedictorian Asna Tabassum. She joined us Wednesday on Democracy Now! after USC cancelled her commencement speech for what it claims are “safety” reasons after Asna became the subject of an online hate campaign.

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The New McCarthyism: Congress Grills Columbia Univ. President Amid Crackdown on Pro-Palestine Speech
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
April 18, 2024
https://www.democracynow.org/2024/4/18/ ... transcript

In nearly four hours of grueling congressional testimony before the Republican-led Committee on Education and the Workforce, the president of Columbia University, Nemat “Minouche” Shafik, said she had taken serious action against accusations of antisemitism on campus in recent months amid Israel’s assault on Gaza, including dismissing or removing five faculty members from the classroom, suspending 15 students and suspending two student groups — Students for Justice in Palestine and Jewish Voice for Peace. Shafik’s visit to Capitol Hill is the latest in a series of hearings on alleged antisemitism at elite U.S. private schools. In December, similar hearings led to the resignations of the presidents of Harvard University and the University of Pennsylvania. Our guests Nara Milanich and Rebecca Jordan-Young, both professors at Barnard College and Columbia University, respond to the televised hearings. “What happened at those hearings yesterday should be of grave concern to everybody,” warns Jordan-Young. “What we got was a live performance [of President Shafik] throwing the entire university system under the bus.” Adds Milanich, “Antisemitism here is being used as a wedge. It’s being used as a Trojan horse for a very different political agenda.”

Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: The president of Columbia University was grilled at a congressional hearing Wednesday about allegations of antisemitism on campus. In nearly four hours of grueling testimony before the Republican-led Committee on Education and the Workforce, Minouche Shafik said she had taken serious action against the accusations, including dismissing or removing five faculty members from the classroom in recent months for comments related to Israel’s assault on Gaza, as well as suspending 15 students and two student groups — Students for Justice in Palestine and Jewish Voice for Peace. Shafik’s visit to Capitol Hill came after a December hearing that led to the resignations of the presidents of Harvard University and the University of Pennsylvania.

AMY GOODMAN: In the run-up to the congressional hearing, a group of Jewish faculty at Columbia and Barnard penned an open letter addressed to President Shafik expressing their concerns about, quote, “the false narratives that frame these proceedings to entrap witnesses” and labeling the hearings a, quote, “new McCarthyism.”

During yesterday’s testimony, Lisa McClain, the Republican congressmember from Michigan, questioned Shafik over a number of pro-Palestinian slogans, including “from the river to the sea.”

REP. LISA McCLAIN: My question to you: Are mobs shouting, “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free,” or “Long live the [intifada]” — are those antisemitic comments?

MINOUCHE SHAFIK: When I hear those terms, I find them very upsetting. And I have heard —

REP. LISA McCLAIN: That’s a great answer to a question I didn’t ask. So let me repeat the question. When mobs or people are shouting, “From the river to the sea, Palestine must be free,” or “Long live the [intifada],” are those antisemitic statements? Yes or no? It’s not how you feel. It’s —

MINOUCHE SHAFIK: I hear them as such. Some people don’t. We have sent a clear message —

REP. LISA McCLAIN: So, is that yes? So, is that yes?

MINOUCHE SHAFIK: We have sent a clear message to our community.

REP. LISA McCLAIN: I’m not asking about the message.

MINOUCHE SHAFIK: Yeah.

REP. LISA McCLAIN: Is that fall under definition of antisemitic behavior? Yes or no? Why is it so tough?

MINOUCHE SHAFIK: Because it’s a — it’s a difficult issue because —

REP. LISA McCLAIN: I realize it’s a difficult issue.

MINOUCHE SHAFIK: — some people hear it as antisemitic, other people do not.

REP. LISA McCLAIN: But here’s the problem, is when people can’t answer a simple question, and they have a definition, but then they can’t — “Well, I’m not really sure if that qualifies.”

MINOUCHE SHAFIK: So, we’ve done —

REP. LISA McCLAIN: I’m asking a simple question. Maybe I should ask your task force. Does that qualify as antisemitic behavior, those statements? Yes or no?

DAVID SCHIZER: Yes.

REP. LISA McCLAIN: Yes. OK.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: Later in the hearing, Republican Georgia Congressmember Rick Allen brought up the Bible in his questioning of Shafik. He cited the Old and New Testament and asked Shafik if [she] wanted Columbia University to be cursed by God.

REP. RICK ALLEN: Are you familiar with Genesis 12:3?

MINOUCHE SHAFIK: Probably not as well as you are, Congressman.

REP. RICK ALLEN: Well, it’s pretty clear. It was the covenant that God made with Abraham. And that covenant was real clear: “If you bless Israel, I will bless you. If you curse Israel, I will curse you.” And then, in the New Testament, it was confirmed that all nations would be blessed through you. So, you do not know about that?

MINOUCHE SHAFIK: I have heard that, now that you’ve explained it.

REP. RICK ALLEN: OK.

MINOUCHE SHAFIK: Yes, I have heard that before.

REP. RICK ALLEN: So, it’s now familiar. Do you consider that a serious issue? I mean, do you want Columbia University to be cursed by God, of the Bible?

MINOUCHE SHAFIK: Definitely not.

REP. RICK ALLEN: OK. Well, that’s good.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: Much of the questioning on Wednesday focused on Columbia’s handling of faculty. New York Republican Congressmember Elise Stefanik led the charge. She grilled the president about her testimony on both the protests at Columbia and about professor Joseph Massad, a professor of modern Arab politics who chairs an academic review committee.

REP. ELISE STEFANIK: Dr. Shafik, you realize that at some of these events, the slurs and the chants have been “F— the Jews,” “Death to Jews” —

MINOUCHE SHAFIK: Yeah.

REP. ELISE STEFANIK: — “F— Israel,” “No safe place, death to the Zionist state,” “Jews out.” You don’t think those are anti-Jewish?

MINOUCHE SHAFIK: Completely anti-Jewish, completely unacceptable.

REP. ELISE STEFANIK: So you change your testimony —

MINOUCHE SHAFIK: Horrible.

REP. ELISE STEFANIK: — on that issue, as well? So, there have been anti-Jewish protests.

MINOUCHE SHAFIK: I didn’t get to finish my sentence. So, what I was going to say there were protests that were called that were — that had a —

REP. ELISE STEFANIK: That’s not what you were asked. You were asked: Were there any anti-Jewish protests? And you said no.

MINOUCHE SHAFIK: So, the protest was not labeled as an anti-Jewish protest. It was —

REP. ELISE STEFANIK: I’m not asking what it was labeled.

MINOUCHE SHAFIK: — labeled as an anti-Israeli government policy. But anti —

REP. ELISE STEFANIK: The question wasn’t what it was labeled.

MINOUCHE SHAFIK: But antisemitic incidents happened, or antisemitic things were said. So, I just wanted to finish —

REP. ELISE STEFANIK: It is an anti-Jewish protest. You agree with that? You change your testimony?

MINOUCHE SHAFIK: Congresswoman, anti-Jewish things were said at protests, yes.

REP. ELISE STEFANIK: Thank you for changing your testimony. Another instance when you changed your testimony is you stated that professor Massad was no longer chair, then you stated he’s under investigation. He is still chair on the website. So, has he been terminated as chair?

MINOUCHE SHAFIK: Congresswoman, I want to confirm the facts before getting back to you. I can confirm that he’s —

REP. ELISE STEFANIK: I know you confirmed that he was under investigation.

MINOUCHE SHAFIK: Yes, I can confirm that. But I —

REP. ELISE STEFANIK: Did you confirm he was still the chair?

MINOUCHE SHAFIK: I need — I need to confirm that with you. I want — I need to check.

REP. ELISE STEFANIK: Well, let me ask you this: Will you make the commitment to remove him as chair?

MINOUCHE SHAFIK: I think that would be — I think I would, yes.

AMY GOODMAN: In a statement emailed to Democracy Now!, professor Joseph Massad said Republicans had, quote, “fabricated statements” about him and that it was, quote, “news to him” that he was under investigation. He said no one had spoken to him about his chairmanship of the committee in question.

For more, we’re joined by two guests. Nara Milanich is a professor of history at Barnard College, part of Columbia University, who co-wrote an open letter to President Shafik titled “Jewish faculty reject the weaponization of antisemitism.” Professor Milanich is a member of the American Association of University Professors, or AAUP. And professor Rebecca Jordan-Young is also with us, professor in the Department of Women’s, Gender and Sexuality Studies at Barnard College, at Columbia. She’s a member of the Columbia chapter of the American Association of University Professors. She’s also a member of the Faculty and Staff for Justice in Palestine.

We welcome you both to Democracy Now! Professor Rebecca Jordan-Young, let’s begin with you. Your response to these hearings yesterday?

REBECCA JORDAN-YOUNG: My response is — well, first, let me just thank you for the opportunity to talk with you. It’s so important.

My first response is that what happened at those hearings yesterday should be of grave concern to everybody, regardless of their feelings on Palestine, regardless of their politics. What happened yesterday was a demonstration of the growing and intensifying attack on liberal education writ large.

So, there was an opportunity yesterday for President Shafik to come forward to mount a robust defense of the university as a unique site for debate of difficult ideas, for the fact that slogans can’t be reduced to soundbites, that in fact that what happens at the university is deep discussion, deep thought, and that, in fact, instead, what we got was a live performance of her not just throwing protesters and specific professors under the bus — which we somewhat anticipated, as awful as that was — but, in fact, throwing the entire university system under the bus, throwing out established policies and procedures of the university, throwing out rules that have been established by the American Association of University Professors for decades as best practices, actually announcing unilateral decisions on faculty members on live television, which she doesn’t actually have the authority, and the university, to do. And I could say more, but really I was astonished. It went worse even than any of us had expected.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: So, Professor Nara Milanich, if you could also respond, what most struck you about the hearing, and what Professor Young just said, that the debate, rather than it being a debate about difficult questions, it became extremely narrow, and professor — President, Columbia president, Shafik seemed to capitulate almost entirely, as Professor Young said, threw the entire university apparatus under the bus? If you could respond to that? What was your sense?

NARA MILANICH: So, my sense, one of the things that I learned is that congressional hearings are kind of like social media, which is to say they are wonderful places for political performance, for political theater, for soundbites, for “gotcha” moments, for interrupting one another. They are really terrible spaces to have deep debates about serious and contentious issues. And academic freedom is one of those issues. What goes on on campus and what is happening on campus right now is one of those issues. Where my freedom to speak ends and your right to be free of harassment begins, those are really difficult questions. And a congressional hearing, Twitter are not the places to be litigating these issues.

The place to be talking about these issues is on college campuses, in classrooms, in university quads, in dorm room hallways, right? Universities are precisely the place where we should be having these deep and difficult conversations. And instead, we have seen, time and again, that university administrators are ceding this conversation to people who have very different motives — right? — and who are engaging on these issues for very, very different reasons.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: And if you could talk, Professor Young, about the establishment of this congressional committee, to begin with, and what we saw happening in December, which led to the resignation of two of the presidents of the top universities in the U.S.?

REBECCA JORDAN-YOUNG: Well, I think it’s been clear from the very beginning that this task force, that this committee, was actually never about antisemitism. This was about a broad attack on liberal education. And, you know, we have many people on this committee who have never before expressed any concern about antisemitism.

And what we saw was that antisemitism, or a particular interpretation of that, a very precise, very politically aligned interpretation of that, has been procedurally split off from discussion about all other forms of harassment, discrimination, violence, etc. — and this is really contrary to what we do in the university; certainly it’s contrary to what we do in my field — where, broadly, this has been created and used as an opportunity to attack all forms of liberatory, critical scholarship. It’s been a place where critical race studies have gotten attacked. It’s attacking DEI. And throughout, unfortunately, the university presidents who have been questioned, and yesterday President Shafik among them, and the rest of the members of the Columbia leadership, played along with this willingness to split these groups apart. But it’s absolutely against what we do both in scholarship and justice activism. We try to help students understand the intertwined nature of systems and power and oppression and discrimination.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: So, if you could say, in the past, how has Columbia University — in other instances of harassment for other reasons, how has Columbia University dealt with those complaints of harassment, persecution, etc., by students or by faculty?

REBECCA JORDAN-YOUNG: Well, there are disciplinary procedures in place, and have been for a very long time. And they involve members from all sectors of the university that both develop the policies and who are involved in adjudication of particular complaints.

What we’ve seen happening in the run-up to this particular hearing is it looked like the university was doubling down, or tripling down, on just how much surveillance and policing they could demonstrate ahead of time to say, “Look, we are a surveillance campus. We’re a law-and-order campus. There won’t be protests on the university campus.” Columbia has historically been a center of protest and free speech, which is essential for our role as preparing students to be active members of a democracy. And instead, what’s happening now is an arrogation of the right to decide all of those procedures just at the level of the administration, to actually treat protest itself as dangerous and as violent, which is really, really bone-chilling to me.

The other thing that they’ve done is actually outsource a lot of the investigations and the hearings, especially that our students have been subjected to, to law firms and private investigation firms that are not in any way aligned with understanding the mission and the history of the university as a site for deep and principled disagreements.

AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to go to Democratic Congressmember Ilhan Omar, one of only two Muslim congressmembers, questioning Columbia President Shafik.

REP. ILHAN OMAR: Have you seen anti-Muslim protests on campus?

MINOUCHE SHAFIK: I have seen — we have had pro-Israeli demonstrations on campus.

REP. ILHAN OMAR: No, no, no.

MINOUCHE SHAFIK: But not —

REP. ILHAN OMAR: Just a protest that was against Muslims?

MINOUCHE SHAFIK: Not — no, I have not seen —

REP. ILHAN OMAR: Have you seen one against Arabs?

MINOUCHE SHAFIK: No, I have not.

REP. ILHAN OMAR: Have you seen one against Palestinians?

MINOUCHE SHAFIK: No, I have not.

REP. ILHAN OMAR: Have you seen against — one against Jewish people? Have you seen a protest —

MINOUCHE SHAFIK: No.

REP. ILHAN OMAR: — saying, “We are against Jewish people”?

MINOUCHE SHAFIK: No, I have — I have seen — no.

REP. ILHAN OMAR: OK. Thank you for that clarification. There has been a rise in targeting and harassment against antiwar protesters, because it’s been pro-war and antiwar protesters, is what seems like, correct?

MINOUCHE SHAFIK: Correct. There has been —

REP. ILHAN OMAR: OK. Thank you.

AMY GOODMAN: So, that’s Congressmember Ilhan Omar, one of two congresswomen — Muslim congresswomen in the House. In January — Congressmember Omar also in this hearing brought up the attack on pro-Palestinian students in January, who say they were sprayed with a foul-smelling chemical. Eight students were reportedly hospitalized, complaining of burning eyes, headaches and nausea and other symptoms. Organizers allege the attack was carried out by two Columbia students who were former members of the Israeli military, using a chemical weapon known as “skunk” that the Israeli military and security forces regularly deploy against Palestinians. Professor Young, if you can comment on that incident, of what happened and what happened to these students?

REBECCA JORDAN-YOUNG: Yes, absolutely. First, I’ll just say that in the 1980s, when I was an undergraduate, I was an organizer against — I was an anti-apartheid organizer. And I was involved in a lot of demonstrations on my campus. My colleagues, students all around the country were faced with a lot of condescending policies and a lot of pressures from administrations and crackdowns. Never, ever have I seen something like what happened on the Columbia campus.

Never, first of all, have I seen a situation where the administration sets up students to say that protests themselves are problematic — you can’t be against a war, you can’t be against indiscriminate bombing of civilians. I mean, what’s getting lost in this is the situation in Gaza.

And at the same time, what we saw is that the university did not respond to that attack on our students. Students were never contacted. The students who were actually attacked with that chemical weapon were not supported until after the fact. After intense pressure from faculty, the administration said that they would offer them some resources. But they also said that students who were subject to this skunk attack would not be exempt from the sanctions imposed on them for protesting.

And I also think it’s important to say that these policies against protest are not long-standing policies. They’re new policies, that have been created on the fly, sometimes after the fact of particular demonstrations. And the inquiry hearings that are being held are getting more and more draconian, so that there’s a dragnet, basically, of sweeping up all kinds of students that they target, often because of wearing hijab, often because of being near other students, being friends with students who are protesting. So, it’s sweep everybody up, ask questions later. And again, it’s so chilling to me.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: And, Professor Milanich, in your open letter, in the open letter that you wrote prior to this hearing to Columbia President Shafik, you said it’s absurd to claim that antisemitism is rampant on Columbia’s campus. So, why do you think that so many people are convinced that this is the case? And as Professor Young said, nothing like what’s happened at Columbia has happened in the past with protests. How do you understand why this has happened?

NARA MILANICH: Yeah. So, I think this is a really important question. And I had the opportunity to author this letter, open letter to President Shafik, in advance of her testimony with almost two dozen of my colleagues who identify as Jewish. And it’s important to know here that Columbia has a large Jewish population, of Jewish faculty and Jewish students, but there is no such thing as a Jewish opinion — right? — on campus. This is a really heterogeneous group, a diverse group, people with very different experiences, different identities and different politics, different ideas, different relationships, or even nonrelationships, with Israel, right? And we had the sort of impression, the sense, that people were speaking for us, right? People were assuming that we needed to be protected, that we felt vulnerable, people assuming that we all shared a particular political point of view. And we wrote this letter to President Shafik to clarify that, to explain sort of the diversity of different political opinions on campus and to question this idea of a single, hegemonic Jewish position or voice or experience.

And the letter goes on to implore President Shafik not to capitulate to this kind of politics of weaponizing antisemitism. One of the remarkable things that we have seen in recent months, since the fall, are the ways that right-wing politicians have suddenly discovered — they’ve had a come-to-Jesus moment and have discovered Jews and have discovered the scourge of antisemitism. And, of course, many of these folks are people who flirt with white nationalism — right? — in their everyday life, which is to say with actual antisemites, right? So, we wanted to make the case, and that my colleague has made, as well, that antisemitism here is being used as a wedge. It’s being used as a Trojan horse for a very different political agenda. And that is a broader and deeper kind of desire or effort to insert politics into the university.

So, we can see how right-wing politicians, even yesterday, on display in the congressional hearings, have a bigger agenda, a bigger ax to grind. They are interested in undermining academic freedom, in attacking wokeism. This is not about antisemitism so much as attacking areas of inquiry and teaching, whether it’s about voting rights or vaccine safety or climate change — right? — arenas of inquiry that are uncomfortable or inconvenient or controversial for certain groups. And so, this is essentially what we’re seeing, antisemitism being weaponized in a broad attack on the university. And I think that’s really worrisome. And we’re all sort of looking to November to think about what happens then. I mean, if this is what is going on now, what happens if Trump is reelected, and then we get these inclinations coming not just from Congress, but also from higher up?

AMY GOODMAN: Well, we want to thank you both for being with us. Nara Milanich is a professor of history at Barnard-Columbia. She co-wrote the open letter to President Minouche Shafik titled “Jewish faculty reject the weaponization of antisemitism.” We also want to thank professor Rebecca Jordan-Young in the Department of Women’s, Gender and Sexuality Studies at Barnard College-Columbia, member of the Faculty and Staff for Justice in Palestine.

***

Columbia Students Risk Arrest, Suspension to Maintain Gaza Solidarity Encampment on Campus
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
April 18, 2024
https://www.democracynow.org/2024/4/18/ ... transcript

Students at Columbia University and Barnard College in New York have set up dozens of tents to occupy the South Lawn of the campus to create a Gaza Solidarity Encampment. Democracy Now! spoke to some of the student-activists, who say they are occupying the space, despite the administration’s threats of suspension and disciplinary action, as part of a demand that the Ivy League school divest from companies and institutions that profit from Israeli occupation. “It seems like the repression is only getting worse and worse,” says Maryam Alwan, a student-activist with Columbia Students for Justice in Palestine.

Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org. As Columbia University President Shafik testified before Congress about accusations of antisemitism at the school, Democracy Now! spoke to Columbia and Barnard College students yesterday who set up a Gaza Solidarity Encampment early Wednesday morning with dozens of tents, occupying the South Lawn of the campus outside the main library. As we broadcast, students have been threatened with suspension and discipline action but are still refusing to leave until their demands are met. They spoke about what they’re calling for.

PROTESTERS: Down, down with occupation! Down, down with occupation! Up, up with liberation! Up, up with liberation!

MARYAM ALWAN: My name is Maryam Alwan, and I’m with Columbia SJP, Students for Justice in Palestine. And we are here today to demand that Columbia divest immediately from all stakes in Israeli apartheid. Over 33,000 Palestinians have been killed. And as we speak, our president is testifying in front of the House in a game of political theater that is conflating anti-Zionism with antisemitism. We want to focus the attention on what’s going on in Gaza and tell Columbia that we are not going anywhere. No matter how much government suppression we face, we will keep fighting until they divest.

They have been completely repressive. I mean, we’ve faced police brutality. We have faced countless policy changes. I mean, my group, along with Jewish Voice for Peace, was suspended in the fall semester completely illegitimately. And I filed a lawsuit to counter that action. And it seems like the repression is only getting worse and worse and worse. But the more they repress us, the more we rise up. And that’s why we’ve escalated — that’s also why we’ve escalated here today.

Not only are they not listening to us when we peacefully protest, when we attempt to just pass referendums for student voices to even be heard, they don’t even want to listen to the students. They don’t want to know what the students think. And so, we’re here to tell them that we will take up space and presence on this campus, and they’re not going to be able to erase our support for Palestine.

PROTESTERS: What do we want? Justice! When do we want it? Now! If Gaza doesn’t get it, shut it down!

SOPH: My name is Soph. I am with Jewish Voice for Peace at Columbia. And I am here today because I will not stand by while thousands and thousands of people are dying because of our tax dollars in this country, as Columbia’s money is going towards a genocide. The money that should be funding our education is going to the bombs that are dropping on Gaza right now. Columbia is a majority share — has massive amounts of shares in various organizations, like Lockheed Martin, that are supplying Israel with bombs right now, and we will no longer be complicit.

In a campus like this that is filled with repression, that is — every day we wake up, and the administration tries to silence us more and more. We are here to say, “The more you try to silence us, the louder we will be.” We will not be complicit. We will stand in solidarity, because we know that we keep us safe.

We refuse to believe that Israel is in any part related to our Judaism. In fact, our Jewish values inform why we’re here, why we’re standing in here — Jewish values of tikkun olam, of love, of appreciation, of respect, of mutual liberation. And so, as Jews, we are here to say that we will always support the liberation of Palestine, because that is what historically Jews have done. We have stood up for other oppressed peoples, because we know that there can be no freedom until we are all free.

PROTESTERS: Free, free Palestine! Free, free Palestine! Free, free, free Palestine! Free, free, free Palestine!

SARAH BORUS: My name is Sarah Borus. I’m a student at Barnard College. And I’m here because I was raised as an anti-Zionist Jew. It is important for me to stand with Palestine. I go to a university that is actively profiting off of the genocide of Palestinians and then is hiding behind Jewish students by saying that they want to crack down on us because of antisemitism. But as an anti-Zionist Jew, I know that that is the farthest thing from the truth. They are doing that because they know that we are on the right side of history, that they are doing something that is profoundly wrong. And it is our job during this genocide to come out and resist.

There were Jews protesting against this genocide who were harassed and then attacked with a chemical weapon. That is not being addressed. This is — quite frankly, we’re seeing McCarthyism once again. And our administrators need to be aware of the experience of anti-Zionist Jews, the way that antisemitism is being weaponized in order to crack down on this movement.

AMY GOODMAN: Voices from the South Lawn of Columbia University, where students have set up a Gaza Solidarity Encampment. Special thanks to Democracy Now!’s Hana Elias and Tey-Marie Astudillo and Eric Halvarson for that report.

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Israel Considers Attacking Iran and Invading Rafah as Netanyahu Seeks Lifelines to Stay in Power
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
April 18, 2024
https://www.democracynow.org/2024/4/18/ ... transcript

New reporting indicates that the Biden administration has approved Israel’s plan to attack Rafah in exchange for Israel not launching counterstrikes on Iran. “Israel is almost certainly going to respond to the Iranian strike in some way,” says Mairav Zonszein, a senior Israel analyst for the International Crisis Group. Now “it has the benefit of being able to dangle both threats”: an invasion on Rafah that would heavily increase the death toll of Palestinians in Gaza, or an attack on Iran that would likely spark a wider regional war. While Israeli approval of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has drastically waned, Zonszein suggests that its military campaign shows no signs of stopping. “Israeli society is largely a right-wing society. It is a society that has not spoken about or thought about Palestinians or the occupation except when it’s forced to. And it’s a society that has gotten used to acting with impunity.”

Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now! I’m Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: Israeli forces have killed at least 11 people, including five children, in strikes on the southern city of Rafah. Israel has repeatedly attacked the city ahead of an expected ground invasion. There are new reports the Biden administration has approved Israel’s plan to attack Rafah in exchange for Israel not launching counterstrikes on Iran.

The latest article by our next guest is headlined “Why Israel-Iran War Is a Lifeline for Netanyahu.” In it, she writes, quote, “Just days ago, much of the world’s attention was on the impending famine in Gaza, and on Israel’s failure to achieve its war objectives of toppling Hamas and returning hostages more than six months into the war. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was under pressure from U.S. President Joe Biden to allow in sufficient humanitarian aid and reach a cease-fire, as well as appeals from Israeli protesters to seal a hostage deal and hold new elections.

“But at night on Saturday, April 13, all that faded instantly as Iran launched hundreds of drones and missiles at Israel in much-anticipated retaliation for an Israeli strike that killed senior Iranian military [officers] in Damascus, Syria, on April 1.”

AMY GOODMAN: That article is by Mairav Zonszein, a senior Israel analyst for the International Crisis Group. She’s joining us now from Tel Aviv.

Mairav, thanks so much for being with us. Can you start off by just continuing your argument? Lay out what you think has happened in the last few days.

MAIRAV ZONSZEIN: Thanks for having me.

Well, essentially, we have an ongoing war, for months and months, that Netanyahu has orchestrated in a way that, clearly, he’s talking about a total victory, that most Israelis now understand he’s not able to achieve. He has lost a lot of legitimacy both at home and abroad. At the same time, many Israelis have supported the war effort. They’re in trauma. And so you have this chaotic situation.

And just days ago, we started to see what looked like, at least rhetorically, cracks in what has been U.S. support for Israel’s war effort in Gaza. And just as things started to seem to change a little bit, primarily as a result of an absolute humanitarian disaster, man-made, in Gaza, all of a sudden attention has gone elsewhere, to another very worrying development with Israel and Iran.

Now, I can’t speak to Netanyahu’s intent on the decision to strike the Damascus consular facility on April 1st, but what I can say is that when you’ve lost legitimacy, and when former security officials and even some current ones are telling everyone that Netanyahu is not fit to lead and is not fit to be providing any kind of safety and security for Israelis, and then he takes the decision to strike a consulate, then that’s clearly something that he took into account. In other words, it could have either led to nothing, or it could have led to what we saw, and in which case he’s now basically, you know, benefiting from the fact that all the world now has to kind of cooperate with him. The Western capitals, surely, some Arab countries, as well, have no choice but to kind of band together against this Iranian threat.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: And, Mairav, could you explain? Your article before this one, earlier this month, is titled “The Problem Isn’t Just Netanyahu, It’s Israeli Society.” Explain what you mean by that, and what you think the problem is with people focusing only on his being the head of Israel, Netanyahu, and taking all the decisions.

MAIRAV ZONSZEIN: Right. Well, I mean, it’s important to understand some of the nuances. I mean, basically, Israeli society is largely a right-wing society. It is a society that has not spoken about or thought about Palestinians or the occupation except when it’s forced to. And it is a society that has gotten used to acting with impunity.

After the Hamas October 7th attack, which was truly unprecedented for Israelis, there was huge consensus for the war, and there’s been almost, you know, complete apathy to what’s happening in Gaza. Israelis are not really interested or emotionally capable of handling that. And there’s been a dehumanization of Palestinians for a very long time. So you have this kind of consensus and just support for Israel’s war effort.

At the same time, you have a leader, specifically Netanyahu, but also the far-right government in general, that many liberal secular Israelis don’t support. And so you have a situation in which the Western capitals in the world, that have pretty much unconditionally supported Israel, have found a way to try and kind of split between, you know, criticism of Netanyahu but supporting Israeli society at large. Now, I understand why they’re doing that, but it’s just important to understand that even if you took Netanyahu out of the equation and you put somebody else, some of his political rivals, in the leadership positions, their approach to the Palestinian issue is almost identical. There’s really no difference there. So, the Israelis that are protesting Netanyahu now are not protesting him about his policies on Palestinians. They’re protesting him about his attacks on their own freedoms and the fact that kind of the same rights violations that Israel has been doing for years are now starting to seep into their own world.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk, Mairav, about this possible trade-off that’s being reported, U.S. wanting Israel not to attack Iran again, but they can invade Rafah?

MAIRAV ZONSZEIN: I think all of this is largely theater and largely performative. I mean, basically, Israel has been dangling the threat of an invasion in Rafah for months now. It doesn’t mean that I don’t think it’s something that it plans to do. But the U.S. pushback on it, while firm rhetorically, hasn’t really been convincing. You know, I’m not convinced that the U.S. is actually about to withhold aid or that the U.S. or Biden were actually going to stop Israel from invading Rafah, because they largely support the war effort.

And Israel is almost surely going to respond to the Iranian strike in some way. And it’s understandable, you know, if we understand the ways Israel works, that it would do so. I think it’s also understandable that Israel, you know, would now — since it hasn’t already responded, it’s now going to consider its options in how it can do that and how it can leverage that situation. So, now, in effect, it has the benefit of being able to kind of dangle both threats — we’re both going to attack Iran, and we’re going to attack Rafah. And so, ultimately, those things are still the case. You know, so I —

AMY GOODMAN: We have to leave it there, Mairav Zonszein, senior Israel analyst for the International Crisis Group. We’ll link to your piece in Foreign Policy. I’m Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh, for another edition of Democracy Now!

[admin]

“No Palestinian Is Safe”: Renowned Feminist Scholar Nadera Shalhoub-Kevorkian Arrested in Jerusalem
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
April 19, 2024
https://www.democracynow.org/2024/4/19/ ... transcript

Israeli police arrested the internationally renowned feminist Palestinian academic Nadera Shalhoub-Kevorkian at her home in Jerusalem on Thursday on charges of incitement to violence. Shalhoub-Kevorkian, who holds both Israeli and U.S. citizenship, was suspended by Hebrew University last month after saying in an interview Israel was committing genocide in Gaza, though the university later reinstated her. We speak with anthropologist Sarah Ihmoud, who describes Shalhoub-Kevorkian as a mentor and inspiration to her and many others. “We hold the Hebrew University of Jerusalem responsible for the arrest and detention because of its persistent and public repression of her academic freedom, which led directly to yesterday’s arrest,” says Ihmoud, who teaches at College of the Holy Cross and is co-founder of the Palestinian Feminist Collective. “We see this as yet another example of Israel attacking Palestinians wherever they are, whoever they are. It underscores that no Palestinian is safe under Israel’s racist apartheid rule.”

Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: Amidst crackdowns on pro-Palestinian voices on campuses coast to coast in the United States, we begin today’s show in Israel, where police arrested the internationally renowned feminist Palestinian professor Nadera Shalhoub-Kevorkian at her home in Jerusalem Thursday on charges of incitement to violence. The professor holds both Israeli and U.S. citizenship. She was suspended by Hebrew University last month after saying in an interview Israel was committing genocide in Gaza. But then the university reinstated her. She spoke on Democracy Now! in March after her suspension.

NADERA SHALHOUB-KEVORKIAN: The question remains whether what is teachable, what is what should be written, what is publishable, what is what we can speak as scholars that are studying state criminality, as opposing to what is going on, as opposing to what the state is doing, is not accepted, so they throw us out of the university. And this is the same policy that the state of Israel is doing outside. So, it’s silencing. It’s preventing people from speaking. It’s threatening. It’s punishing. And it’s also done in a very degraded and undignifying manner. Calling my students a day before the end of the first semester and telling me, “You’re suspended,” is something that is beyond any expectations. But this is — and stressing it’s a Zionist institution. “You can’t abide by these rules, you’re out.”

My only concern, Amy, today is the safety of students, the safety of my students, Jewish and Palestinian, that are standing against genocide, standing against the war, refusing to see the continuous and ongoing atrocities. My really concern is the silencing of dissent all over the world, because we see it in academic institutions. The question: If we think that academic institutions should work according and by the orders from the state, I don’t know why we’re having academic institutions. Academia and research requires that we’re attentive to details, to what goes on to the life of women, men, children. And I am really concerned today. And, of course, I must clearly state that the behavior of the university is a behavior that is threatening the safety of our students, the safety of colleagues that are speaking against the genocide, and my own personal safety as a person who lives in Jerusalem, and the safety of my family.

AMY GOODMAN: That was last month. After professor Shalhoub-Kevorkian’s arrest on Thursday, over a hundred professors around the world released a statement calling for her immediate release, calling her arrest an attack, quote, “on all Palestinian scholars, students, and activists who bring to light the violent and genocidal nature of the Israeli state,” they wrote.

Today, professor Shalhoub-Kevorkian had a hearing, where a judge ordered her release. But she has not been released, as the Israeli government is reportedly appealing.

For more, we’re joined by Sarah Ihmoud, a Chicana Palestinian anthropologist, assistant professor of anthropology and peace and conflict studies at the College of the Holy Cross in Worcester, Massachusetts. She’s founder of the Palestinian Feminist Collective. Professor Nadera Shalhoub-Kevorkian is her mentor.

We welcome you to Democracy Now!, Professor Ihmoud. If you can start off by giving us the latest? We spoke to her when she was in London after being suspended by Hebrew University. They then reinstated her, she went home to Israel, and she has now been arrested. What have you heard of this hearing and why she was arrested?

SARAH IHMOUD: Thanks for having me, Amy, and thank you for bringing light to the case of professor Shalhoub-Kevorkian, who, as you noted, is an internationally renowned feminist scholar and human rights activist who has been working to bring attention to the situation of Palestinian women and children under Israeli military occupation for the past three decades.

As far as we understand, professor Shalhoub-Kevorkian was violently arrested from her home in the Armenian Quarter of Jerusalem’s Old City yesterday around 5 p.m. The police raided her home and confiscated her belongings, including her laptop, some books, from what I understand, as well as a poster of the Palestian poet Mahmoud Darwish.

Professor Shalhoub-Kevorkian, as you noted, has been subjected to violent repression and harassment by the Hebrew University for speaking out against the ongoing genocide in Gaza. And she was suspended from her teaching duties in March, though later reinstated once it became clear that there was no basis for the allegations against her. Ultimately, we hold the Hebrew University of Jerusalem responsible for her arrest and detention because of its persistent and public repression of her academic freedom, which led directly to yesterday’s arrest.

And we see this as yet another example of Israel attacking Palestinians wherever they are, whoever they are. It underscores that no Palestinian is safe under Israel’s racist apartheid rule, not even someone like Dr. Shalhoub-Kevorkian, who is both an Israeli and American citizen and a world-renowned and respected feminist scholar. And it’s important to note, as well, that Israel routinely holds Palestinians captive and imprisons them without trial, without due process and under inhumane conditions, including children, and that this is just both unjust and illegal. And this is an attack on her as both a Palestinian and a scholar who is rightfully speaking out against Israel’s well-documented human rights abuses and ongoing genocide.

So, as far as we understand, the Jerusalem court magistrate had ordered her release under the condition of a 20,000-shekel bail. However, the court, the state — the state and the police are appealing, and they have taken her to the central court, where they’re still holding her. So we are still waiting further details about whether she will be released or whether the state will continue holding her.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about how you know her, Professor Sarah Ihmoud?

SARAH IHMOUD: Of course. Thank you, Amy. I have known professor Shalhoub-Kevorkian for over a decade. I first met her in occupied East Jerusalem when I was a graduate student just beginning to pursue my Ph.D. dissertation research. And she has become one of my dearest friends and mentors over the past decade. She’s someone that has really opened my eyes, and many across the world, to the intimacies of Israeli settler-colonial violence and repression in occupied East Jerusalem and across the Palestinian territory.

Her work has focused on specifically the conditions of women, how patriarchy and colonialism intersect to shape the lives of women, and what justice looks like for Palestinian women. And her work has also really taken a central imperative to understanding the conditions of Palestinian children and speaking out against the persistent human rights abuses of Palestinian children in occupied territory. She is the scholar who founded the concept of unchilding to help us further understand, as scholars across the world interested in children’s rights, how settler-colonial states typically shape the lives and limit the futures of children, Indigenous children and racialized children, across the globe. So her work has been absolutely pathbreaking and important not only in the Palestinian context, but in global contexts where populations are facing racialized and gendered repression and violence.

And she has been a beloved mentor to many, including myself. And she has always centered love in the way that she cares for her students, for scholars in her community. And she continues to center that ethics and method of love in the work that she does in the community and with her students across the Hebrew University and beyond.

AMY GOODMAN: In addition to being a professor at Hebrew University, she also taught at Queen Mary University in London. We spoke to her in London. Another professor there is Neve Gordon, the Israeli scholar, who we also recently did an interview with. He just tweeted, the judge — “Nadera Hearing: The judge to police: I can understand that you wanted the arrest to conduct searches, but so far you have not found anything that justifies the arrest and I have not received any other explanation. The pages you found are an expression of opinion,” the judge said. As we wrap up, Professor Ihmoud, the significance of this, and why you feel she’s being targeted right now?

SARAH IHMOUD: Absolutely. Thank you. I think, you know, it’s important to stress the absurdity of her portrayal by the police as dangerous. And yet this follows a history of Palestinians, generally, and Palestinian women, in particular, being portrayed as a dangerous threat to Israeli security. Obviously, we see how the entire population of Gaza has been dehumanized, and that has provided the pretext for Israel’s continued genocidal assault on the entire civilian population of the Gaza Strip. And of course Israel sees professor Shalhoub-Kevorkian as dangerous, because her work for the last several decades exposes exactly the opposite, of course — that is, the humanity of the Palestinian people in the face of the inhumanity of the Israeli state in its quest to continue to occupy, terrorize and brutalize the Palestinian people and repress our movement for liberation.

So, we are calling on international scholars, activists and people of conscience everywhere to continue maintaining pressure for her immediate release and for all of the charges against her to be dropped. We are outraged by this unlawful action, and we refuse the continuing silence and violence by the Israeli state and its institutions against the Palestinian people and for those who, like professor Shalhoub-Kevorkian, continue being a voice of light and love, standing for justice and liberation. Again, professor Shalhoub-Kevorkian has always centered her love for her people, for her students’ safety and security. And it’s important that we follow in her footsteps in the path that she has been taking herself and leading us in embodying hope and the necessity that we continue speaking out against Israel’s ongoing genocidal violence.

AMY GOODMAN: Sarah Ihmoud, we want to thank you for being with us, Chicana Palestinian anthropologist, assistant professor of anthropology and peace and conflict studies at the College of Holy Cross in Worcester, Massachusetts, where she’s speaking to us from. She’s a founder of the Palestinian Feminist Collective. Professor Nadera Shalhoub-Kevorkian was arrested Thursday in Jerusalem at her home.

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Over 100 Arrested at Columbia After Univ. President Orders NYPD to Clear Pro-Palestine Student Protest
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
April 19, 2024
https://www.democracynow.org/2024/4/19/ ... transcript

Columbia University President Nemat “Minouche” Shafik on Thursday called on New York police to forcibly clear a student occupation on the lawn of the school, which had been dubbed the Gaza Solidarity Encampment, resulting in over 100 arrests. The protesters were demanding the Ivy League school divest from firms and institutions that profit from the Israeli occupation of Palestine, but Shafik ordered the raid a day after being questioned on Capitol Hill about ongoing pro-Palestinian protests on campus. The move caused outrage among students and many faculty, who decried it as censorship and a violation of academic freedom. The renowned professor and presidential candidate Cornel West, chair of the Columbia-affiliated Union Theological Seminary, joined students Thursday in solidarity with their protest and told Democracy Now! they “represent the best … of the human spirit,” and lauded them for “fighting in the face of domination and occupation and subjugation, and doing it with tremendous determination.”

Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org.

Here in New York, riot police moved in on a peaceful student protest encampment, arresting at least 108 people at Columbia. Columbia University President Minouche Shafik called the NYPD to clear the Gaza Solidarity Encampment on the campus’s South Lawn, where Columbia and Barnard students had set up one day earlier to demand university leadership divest from Israel. New York Police Chief John Chell said Shafik identified the demonstration as a “clear and present danger,” but that officers found the students to peaceful and cooperative. Shafik warned all students participating in the encampment would be suspended. At least three suspensions of Barnard students were confirmed Thursday before the arrests, including Isra Hirsi, the daughter of Congressmember Ilhan Omar.

Thursday’s showdown with the NYPD was the largest arrest on the Columbia campus since 1968, when police arrested over 700 students protesting the school’s ties to the Vietnam War and its plans to expand in Harlem by building a gymnasium there.

Following the arrests yesterday, students gathered on the campus throughout the night as large protests continued and are ongoing. Students got support from many Columbia faculty online and a visit in person from Union Theological Seminary professor Cornel West, just nearby, who is also a 2024 presidential candidate. Democracy Now! spoke to professor West after he climbed a fence to visit with the encamped protesters.

CORNEL WEST: Well, you know, in light of our stand in deep solidarity with our precious Palestinian brothers and sisters who are undergoing vicious genocide, wrestling with apartheid conditions for so long and still being ethnically cleansed, we want the world to know that their suffering does not have the last word. There is resilience, and there’s a willingness to fight.

And Columbia president ought to be shame on herself that she cannot zero in on an actual genocide taking place before our very eyes, and be concerned about a potential and possible call for genocide of Jews. Nobody here is calling for the genocide of Jews. Nobody is here calling for annihilation. We’re calling for the end of an actual genocide and the end of an actual annihilation.

How sad that Columbia University could teach so many courses on the canonical texts of Western civilization and can’t listen to Diderot or Karl Marx. They can’t listen to a Martin Luther King Jr. They can’t listen to a Muriel Rukeyser. Most importantly, they can’t listen to the cries of our precious Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank.

So, I’m in deep solidarity with these students. They represent the best, not just of Columbia, not just of the American empire, but the human spirit, fighting in the face of domination and occupation and subjugation, and doing it with tremendous determination.

AMY GOODMAN: That’s presidential candidate and Union Theological Seminary professor Cornel West speaking to Democracy Now! at Columbia University in the midst of the protest. Special thanks to Hana Elias. President Shafik called in the New York police a day after she testified in the U.S. Congress.

***

“Fear and Terror”: Gaza Photographer Ahmed Zakot on Documenting the Carnage of Israel’s Assault
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
April 19, 2024
https://www.democracynow.org/2024/4/19/ ... transcript

As Israel continues bombarding the Gaza Strip, we speak with a Palestinian photographer who recently fled the territory with his family. Ahmed Zakot has been documenting Gaza for the last 25 years, and two of his photographs were just featured in a project by the U.N. Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs and published by Rolling Stone earlier this month in a piece titled “Gaza’s Carnage Through the Eyes of Palestinian Photojournalists.” One of Zakot’s photos shows a Gaza neighborhood lit up by Israeli airstrikes at night, while the second is of thousands of Palestinians fleeing their homes with their belongings in a scene reminiscent of the 1948 Nakba that displaced some 700,000 Palestinians from their homes. “It reminds me [of] what my grandfather told me about this displacement. It’s the same [that] happened since 1948 — now we are in 2024,” Zakot says.

Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman.

Israeli warplanes bombed areas in Beit Lahia in the northern Gaza Strip as well as the Jabaliya refugee camp in Gaza City over the last day, killing at least four people. Meanwhile, Al Jazeera reports the Israeli military has deployed more troops in areas adjacent to Rafah, the southernmost city of Gaza, where some 1.3 million Palestinians — more than half of Gaza’s population — are seeking shelter. Israeli airstrikes have been pounding agricultural land in the eastern parts of Rafah this morning.

The official death toll in Gaza is nearly 34,000 Palestinians killed, over 14,000 of them children. Thousands more are missing and presumed dead under the rubble. Nearly 77,000 have been wounded. That’s 100,000 Palestinians killed or wounded since October 7th.

This comes as a picture by the Gaza-based Reuters photojournalist Mohammed Salem has been chosen as the 2024 World Press Photo of the Year. It shows a Palestinian woman, Inas Abu Maamar, caressing the wrapped body of her dead niece Saly in the Nasser Hospital morgue in Khan Younis in October.

Well, today we’re joined by a Palestinian photographer who was able to leave Gaza 10 days ago with his family. Ahmed Zakot [@ahmedzakot] is a photographer who’s documented Gaza for the past 25 years. Two of his photographs are featured in a U.N. OCHA project. Ahmed Zakot joins us now from Cairo, Egypt.

Ahmed, welcome to Democracy Now! You’ve just recently left Gaza. Can you talk about the journey you took and why, as a photographer who’s documented Gaza for the last quarter of a century, you decided to leave with your family?

AHMED ZAKOT: Thank you so much, and I’m very happy to join you today.

Actually, what forced us to leave Gaza is to be safe and to keep our family lives safe. As you know, it’s a war ongoing since seven months. And it’s a very, very hard war. I’m working since 25 years. This is the first war that I faced. It’s a very, very strong war. And we don’t know how we are be patient to keep to stay alive during this seven months. Actually, this war is keeping and still ongoing on Gaza Strip. So, each month, we talk to us that this war will stop and the international community will stop this war, but, actually, no one — nothing changed, and the war is still ongoing until this moment.

AMY GOODMAN: Ahmed, you left, but you have two brothers, their wives and children. Where are they in Gaza right now? What circumstances are they living in?

AHMED ZAKOT: Yeah, of course. I left two brothers, wives and their children in Khan Younis at al-Mawasi area, that the Israeli army said it is a humanitarian area. But, actually, nowhere, no place in Gaza Strip are safe, because I was there, and we are — all of us, we lived in tents on this area. This area, it’s like desert — no water, no food, no useful food. And it’s a danger areas, because the Israeli army, by time to time, targeted tents and targeted many targets over there. So, we are seeking and we are trying to evacuate them from Gaza Strip as soon as possible to follow us here in Egypt to be safe, because, as I said, this war are still ongoing. The situation of my family and all the Palestinians’ situation are very, very catastrophic and very, very bad over there. No one can live, and no one can guarantee that he will wake up the next morning, he is alive, or he is not wounded.

AMY GOODMAN: Ahmed Zakot, so many of your photographs feature children, also ambulances. Can you talk about your focus right now as you photographed in Gaza these last six months?

AHMED ZAKOT: Yes, of course. Our coverage this war is different about many last wars in Gaza. As you know, Gaza Strip occurred four wars, at least. And I covered them, but this war was special, and because of — it’s special about me as a photojournalist for 25 years because the intensive hits, the intensive heavy attacks on the neighborhoods, the cities, the buildings, and also it hits the civilians, the innocent people, actually. So it’s different. This is the first time I felt the fear and terror of this war on me and on my brothers, my family, completely, actually.

So, I can’t explain this war, because it’s a very, very big war. We can say each area that we went and cover it, we can say it’s like an earthquake hit this area, not bombard and bombs hit this area. There are a lot of destruction buildings in each single piece and place in Gaza Strip. So, we are focusing on children, women and on the ambulances’ teams and all of the civilians that were hit on this war.

AMY GOODMAN: Ahmed Zakot, two of your photographs are featured in an OCHA project. That’s the U.N. Office for Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs. It’s a project called —

AHMED ZAKOT: Yes, of course. I’m —

AMY GOODMAN: — “Gaza’s Carnage Through the Eyes of Palestinian Photojournalists.” One of them was taken on October 9th, the other on November 10th. Can you describe these photographs that you chose for this project? In your description of the photograph from October 9th, it says, “It was as if flames were spewing from the jaws of Israeli tanks and the F-16 missiles, I took this picture from the 19th floor of a skyscraper in Gaza. In my 25-year career as a photographer, I never felt such fear and distress.”

AHMED ZAKOT: Yes, of course. This picture — yes —

AMY GOODMAN: “I felt that I was filming a cinematic movie scene, I had to remind myself that it is all too real. I don’t have the words to describe this picture, but I know the terror I felt watching the flames lighting up Gaza in a night drowned in darkness with the electricity cut-offs on Gaza.” We’re, Ahmed, looking at your picture as you talk to us about it, that picture you took in October.

AHMED ZAKOT: Yes, of course. This is the first time that I captured such this picture, because, as I said and as I explained, I thought myself that I’m shooting or capturing a cinematic scene, because this is the first time I saw a heavy of air attacks on a simple area. It was al-Rimal neighborhood. It is the beautiful neighborhood in Gaza. And this night, it was because of the heavy and the intensive attacks from the airstrikes, they are lighting the area amid of this darkness. As you know, Gaza are suffering from power cut for many years, since 2006. But this time I felt that Gaza is lighting, but not with electricity, by the lights comes from the bombs and airstrikes from the F-16 warplanes. So, this picture are still stuck on my mind until now, and will stick in my mind forever, because I felt that really I’m in a cinematic scene, not in a real war that’s hitting the areas and the buildings over there.

AMY GOODMAN: And I wanted to end —

AHMED ZAKOT: This is why this picture are still stuck and has a story with me.

AMY GOODMAN: Ahmed, I wanted to end with your other photograph, from November. It is a photograph of thousands of displaced Palestinians fleeing south. You wrote, “As I was taking this picture; I remembered my grandfather telling me about al-Nakba and how he was displaced. I started crying.”

AHMED ZAKOT: Yes.

AMY GOODMAN: Tell us about —

AHMED ZAKOT: Of course, I remember this picture. So, I was crying. I stopped my capturing pictures at that day especially, because I remembered my grandfather’s story that he told me before he passed away in 2002. He told me about al-Nakba stages, when the Israeli forces forced them to leave the original cities in Israel to the southern cities in Gaza Strip. So, he told me one word, that this scene will not get back at this time. So, when I captured this scene, I remembered this word from him that when he told me this sentence, that when he told me before he passed away, that this scene will not get back.

But now we are shooting this picture. We are shooting this situation, this displacement for this people, for those people who are suffering. As you see in the picture, they are carrying their belongings at their help and weak hands. So, they are fleeing from the northern cities of Gaza Strip to the southern cities. So, it reminds me what my grandfather told me about this displacement. It’s the same happened since 1948 — now we are in 2024, or 2023, by the way. So, this reminded me and stuck my heart. I stopped my work and keep crying, away from my friends that we are together at that day.

AMY GOODMAN: Ahmed, can you talk about how you got out of Gaza with your family? Can you talk about — what? An adult has to pay something like $7,000, $8,000. It’s $2,500 for a child. Explain the circumstances, how you get out, as the Israeli military says it is intent on now attacking Rafah, where people leave from.

AHMED ZAKOT: So, yes, we are leave Gaza — we are left Gaza by I coordinating with the Egyptian Press Syndicate, and they arranging that to me and to my family because I’m a journalist. So they helped me to do that. Really, really, I appreciated that for them and very thankful for them, because they helped me to leave Gaza here to Egypt to at least stay for maybe one or two months, until the war will stop. So, I will get back to my city, to Gaza, to the Gaza Strip, to keep working and to keep sending messages and to keep covering the suffers of my people in Gaza Strip.

AMY GOODMAN: Ahmed Zakot, I want to thank you so much for being with us, Palestinian photographer, forced to leave Gaza with his family 10 days ago.

Coming up, we will look —

AHMED ZAKOT: Thank you so much.

AMY GOODMAN: — at the U.N. project, the Gaza Collective Photo Essay project, and the work of more Palestinian photojournalists. Stay with us.

***

U.N. Photo Collection Shows Gaza War Through the Lens of Palestinian Journalists
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
April 19, 2024
https://www.democracynow.org/2024/4/19/ ... transcript

The Gaza Collective Photo Essay project, organized by the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA), collected work from 14 Palestinian photographers who were each asked to share one image that captured the devastation of the Gaza Strip over the last six months. We speak with Charlotte Cans, head of photography at OCHA, about the project. “It’s one thing to say there’s a war and it’s horrible, and it’s another thing to see an image of a child being pulled out from the rubble. It really hits you differently,” Cans says of the motivation behind the project. “It was really important to elevate the stories coming from Palestinian photojournalists, who are the only window into what is going on in Gaza.”

Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman.

On Thursday, I spoke with Charlotte Cans, head of photography for the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, OCHA, about the Gaza Collective Photo Essay project she has led. She asked 14 Palestinian photographers to share one image taken in the Gaza Strip over the last six months that they want the world never to forget. A warning to our TV audience: The interview features graphic images. She speaks from Paris, France.

CHARLOTTE CANS: Thank you very much, Amy, for having me and having us and talking about this project, which is very special indeed.

I think, you know, the first thing is that a couple of weeks into the war, the U.N. Secretary-General António Guterres said the situation in Gaza is not just a humanitarian crisis, it’s a crisis of humanity. And I think, for me, for us, this is what, you know, started it all, because the assault that we’re seeing on the population of Gaza is unprecedented in brutality, scope and intensity. And the figures speak for themselves. In six months, you had over 100,000 people killed and wounded, 70% of whom are children and women. You know, this staggering number, as well, that the number of children killed in Gaza is higher — in six months, is higher than the number of children killed in four years of all the wars combined all around the world. You have three-quarters of the population displaced. Famine is imminent. Law and order are breaking down. Humanitarian aid is actively blocked, and on and on and on. And, you know, I think these figures are so staggering that they defy comprehension. And so, for me, and for us, it was really important to try to humanize these numbers, to make them real and to make them understandable.

And I think it’s quite paradoxical, because there’s been an overflow of images and stories on Gaza, flooding our phones, flooding our screens, you know, for six months, but somehow, somehow, it is — it is not getting across. And I could see it in my direct environment, you know, talking to friends and families. I could see that people didn’t really understand what was going on in Gaza. Yes, they know there’s a war in Gaza, and they know that wars are bad and horrible. But it’s one thing to say there’s a war and it’s horrible, and it’s another thing to see an image of a child being pulled out from the rubble. It really hits you differently.

And so, I think, for us, it was really — as the U.N., as OCHA, which is the humanitarian arm of the U.N., it was really important to elevate these stories coming from Palestinian photojournalists, who are the only window into what is going on in Gaza, because, as you know, international foreign journalists have been banned of entering Gaza independently. None of them have, except from Clarissa Ward, who went in for like two hours at the end of sometime in December. So, Palestinian photojournalists are the only ones, are the only window into the suffering of people in Gaza. And so it was really important for us to go to them and to try to share and elevate again the incredible, tragic testimonies that they are reporting and covering, day in, day out, for the last six months.

AMY GOODMAN: So, Charlotte Cans, can you talk about how you reached out to Palestinian photojournalists?

CHARLOTTE CANS: Yeah, that’s a really good question, because it’s been incredibly difficult. It’s been a process that has been going on for weeks. It took us over three months to put this project together. And, you know, as you know, the communications have been really, really difficult with Gaza. I think, you know, it got better recently, but in December, January, up until February, there were like constant blackouts. So it was hard to get a hold of people. And you would get a hold of someone, and then the person would not be responding for days on end. And suddenly you had, you know, an answer, and they were like, “Yes, I’m really happy to participate. I will send you images,” and then nothing again for a couple of days. So it was this constant back-and-forth.

And I just want to say here that, you know, the way we made it happen also has been through an incredible photojournalist called Tanya Habjouqa, who’s been based in Jerusalem, Ramallah for the past 25 years. Tanya is an award-winning photojournalist. She knows the country and the region inside out. And she had an incredible networks of, you know, colleagues, Palestinian colleagues. And so, through Tanya, as well, we were really able to reach out to a number of them, bring them on board. And, you know, it was a combination of, again, her network, word of mouth. And also, Amy, to be honest, you know, they are being killed also, Palestinian photojournalists, so there are not that many of them left in Gaza, to be honest, and this is tragic.

AMY GOODMAN: So, introduce us to some of the photographs that are in this collection.

CHARLOTTE CANS: OK. So, I think — let me actually — I’m just taking it in front of me. I think, you know, there’s one photo for me that hits me really hard. It’s the photo from photographer Jehad Al Shrafii [@jehad_alshrafi]. Jehad is a 22-year-old Palestinian photographer from Gaza. And he took this image of Ibrahim, who’s a 12-year-old boy, like any other boy in the world, who had his arm amputated because of his injuries in the last six months. And we can see him, on the image, trying to brush his teeth. And he’s holding the toothbrush with his mouth and the paste, the toothpaste, in his left hand. And he’s trying to do something as simple as brushing his teeth. And you can see in this image how difficult it is and how his life has been turned upside down.

And I think, you know, with the number of children killed in Gaza and wounded — and I think, again, this is pretty unprecedented compared to other conflicts and wars around the world, you know. And when we say — I think it’s Save the Children, had this terrible statistic a few months ago, which was that 10 children per day, on average, have lost an arm or a limb in the war. And when you see that, when you see Ibrahim trying to brush his teeth, you understand what that means. It’s his life has — his life has been shattered. But it’s not just his life. It’s his family’s life, as well, because he will need a caregiver for years to come. So, again, it’s like, you know, through the war, it’s entire families who are being affected. And I think this image really hits, you know, very hard to me.

AMY GOODMAN: Charlotte, introduce us to Belal Khaled [@belalkh] and his picture.

CHARLOTTE CANS: Yeah. So, Belal is a very interesting, you know, character and person. He used to be a calligraphy artist, and he is still a kind of calligraphy artist, but he was, you know, making a living as a calligraphy artist also before the war. He’s also a photojournalist. He’s an incredible photographer. His images are stunningly tragic, very often.

There’s a couple of images of him in the project. One of them is of a little boy who is, Amy, the color of ashes. He’s sitting on a hospital bed crying, and there’s blood dripping along his face. And Belal, in the text that accompanies the photo — because that’s something very special to this project. It’s not just the images. It’s the personal texts that the photographers have shared to accompany the images, where they explain their emotions and the backstory to the image and what the story means to them. And Belal has these words with this image. He says that this child, when he got to hospital, was crying for his bicycle. And he kept saying that he wanted his bicycle, he wanted his bicycle, not having fully comprehended what had just, you know, hit him. So, this is a really strong image.

There’s another one from Belal, which is incredibly strong, as well, where you see a family. And I think this is very special, because in many images that we’ve seen on Gaza, quite often it’s one parent or the other with their dead child, but in this image you see the entire family. You see the mother, you see the father, you see the brother, and you see this dead child in their arms. And their grief and their suffering is so raw in this image. It’s incredibly strong.

AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to read the quote that Belal Khaled sent. He said, “A Palestinian child was carried to al-Nasser Hospital, pulled out from rubble. At the hospital his aunt recognized him and started screaming his name. 'This is Diya'a, this is Diya’a…’. When his siblings, mother and father arrived, their pain was unforgettable. He had left their home to get some wood for heat when he was killed in an airstrike.” The family forms a cocoon around his shrouded small body. Tell us about the photographer Jehan Kawera [@jehan_kawaree].

CHARLOTTE CANS: So, Jehan is a young female photographer. There’s a couple of them in the project. We have three female photographers represented, with Jehan, Mariam Abu Dagga [ @mariam_abu_dagga] and Samar Abu Elouf [@samarabuelouf]. So there’s three of them.

Jehan has this poignant image of a young girl who’s lying on a hospital floor. It’s a very graphic image. It’s very hard. You can see the hands of a health specialist trying to, you know, fix something, her drip, or whatever that is. But what is striking in this image is that she’s got her right hand lying on the floor, and in her right hand, there’s a piece of candy. And it’s this, you know, typical candy that kids in many different places of the world eat that is very recognizable. And seeing this young girl, this — she’s probably 6 or 7, no more, lying on the floor with a piece of candy in her hand.

And the quote, again, of Jehan is incredibly, incredibly powerful. And I have it in front of me, actually, Amy. I don’t know if I can read it to you. But she says that she could not hold herself up when she saw this little girl “gasping for breath, and the piece of candy, still stuck in her hand stained with blood.” She “will never forget when she was carried to the mortuary.” And she says here, “The candy fell at my feet on the blood-soaked ground.”

And again, I think what is so strong with this project, again, is that these images hit you because they make this suffering so relatable. These are not just random kids. When you recognize the piece of candy in her hand, you can see all the kids that you know, your own kids, your nephews, your nieces. And that makes it, again, particularly strong.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you tell us about Saher Alghorra [@saher_alghorra]?

CHARLOTTE CANS: Yes. So, Saher has an incredible image in the project where you see a dad — it’s in a white tent — screaming. And the dad is in a bit of a hallucinatory state, as he says himself in his text. And right next to him lying on the floor is the body of his dead child, covered by white cloth. And Saher has been documenting the war for the last six months for many different outlets. He’s a really strong photographer. He just won Picture of the Year, actually, for his work. And again, you know, this image is — the suffering is so raw and so eerie. Yeah, it’s just — it just hits you, you know, directly. It just stabs you in the heart, really, Amy.

AMY GOODMAN: And then there’s Mahmud Hams [@mahmudhams]. It’s similar, but different. He says, “Mohamed El-Aloul is a cameraman for Anadolu news agency. He is my friend. We spend a lot time together, and we also often cover the war together. Four of his children were killed in an airstrike. His wife was severely injured. When he heard what happened to his family, it was early morning, and we were together at the hospital. We went to the morgue at Al Alqsa. I knew his children. All I could do was to be there, with him, crying.”

CHARLOTTE CANS: Yeah, absolutely. Mahmud is a photographer for AFP, Agence France-Presse, who’s been covering 30 years of war in Gaza. And I think this image is very strong, as you say, Amy, because it talks about, you know, the fact that, again, these Palestinian photojournalists are being killed in this war. And they are not just witnesses. They are victims, as well, whether they are being killed or wounded or whether they are being displaced with their families. And this, again, makes it very, very special in, you know, what we’re seeing unfolding in Gaza right now.

AMY GOODMAN: And what you know of Mohamed El-Aloul, the cameraman who lost his children? He’s wearing — of course, he’s wearing the press vest.

CHARLOTTE CANS: Yeah, exactly. And I think in this incident where the house where he was staying in got targeted by an airstrike, he lost three of his children and his brother on the strike. So, again, we’re talking about entire families being detonated.

AMY GOODMAN: And Anadolu news agency, where is it?

CHARLOTTE CANS: So, Anadolu is a Turkish news agency. It’s one of the big news agencies, again, based, headquartered in Turkey.

AMY GOODMAN: Tell us about Mohammed Zaanoun [@m.z.gaza].

CHARLOTTE CANS: So, Mohammed Zaanoun is also one of the, you know, main photojournalists who’s been reporting on this war since the beginning. He’s working for several news agencies. He’s working — you know, he’s been working for Al Jazeera. He’s been working for Le Monde. He’s been working for several, for a couple of others.

His images are all very striking. There’s a couple in the project. There’s one of where you can only see the feet of a child, and you only see that it’s tiny feet in the photo — you don’t know who it is — completely buried under the rubble. And Mohammed has this caption, which says, “A child’s feet were all that were visible from the rubble. The little girl was killed along with three of her brothers by an Israeli air strike in Khan Yunis market. The mother, she lived, but was hopeful for hours that they would be pulled out alive by the paramedics, from the rubble where her home once stood.”

And I think this photo is incredible, Amy, as well, because, you know, it’s probably — again, when people have seen them, it’s one which really stayed with them. It’s graphic in a way, but it’s not graphic in another. But the emotion that you have when you see this image, again, you know, very strong, and it makes you understand, again, what we were talking about before: What does this war look like, day in, day out, for people and families and children in Gaza? You know, seeing a child’s feet under the rubble, you know, again, makes you understand the war quite differently than just reading about it.

AMY GOODMAN: Charlotte Cans, head of photography for OCHA, the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs. She coordinated the Gaza Collective Photo Essay project. Charlotte said these are not just photojournalists; these are also civilians. They’re witnesses and victims to the horrible conflict that we’re seeing unfolding in front of our eyes. We particularly thank Charlotte for this interview. She was in Paris after the passing of her mother this week.

[admin]

Historic Gaza Protests at Columbia U. Enter Day 6; Campus Protests Spread Across Country
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
April 22, 2024
https://www.democracynow.org/2024/4/22/ ... transcript

Columbia University canceled in-person classes Monday as campus protests over the war in Gaza enter a sixth day. The protests have swelled after the school administration called in the police to clear a student encampment last week, resulting in over 100 arrests. Solidarity protests and encampments have now sprouted up on campuses across the country, including at Yale, MIT, Tufts, NYU, The New School and University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Palestinian reporter Jude Taha, a journalism student at Columbia University, describes events on campus as “an unprecedented act of solidarity” that student organizers are modeling on antiwar protests in 1968. She says Columbia University President Minouche Shafik’s claims of an unsafe environment on campus are contradicted by the generally calm and productive atmosphere among the protesters, adding that the school’s heavy-handed response, including suspensions and evictions, is being seen as “an intimidation tactic” by organizers.

Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: We begin here in New York, where Columbia University has canceled in-person classes today as campus protests over Israel’s war on Gaza enter a sixth day. Classes will be held online today. The protests have swelled after the arrest last week of over 100 students who had set up an encampment to call for the school to divest from Israel. Organizers say at least 50 students have been suspended from Barnard, 35 from Columbia. A growing number of Columbia and Barnard alumni, employees and guest speakers have also publicly condemned or announced they’re boycotting the prestigious institutions.

Over the weekend, solidarity protests and encampments also began on other college campuses here in New York City at NYU, at The New School, as well as across the country, including at Yale, MIT, Tufts, Vanderbilt and University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill.

We’re joined right now by two guests. In a moment we’ll speak with Columbia University professor Mahmood Mamdani, who addressed students participating in the Gaza Solidarity Encampment on Columbia’s campus multiple times last week. But we begin with Jude Taha, Palestinian Jordanian journalist and journalism student at Columbia University Journalism School. She’s on Columbia’s campus here in New York, where the student-led Gaza Solidarity Encampment is still underway. She’s joining us from her school at Columbia Journalism School right now.

Welcome to Democracy Now!, Jude. Can you lay out what’s happened over the weekend, what are people’s demands, and the fact that today, the president — who all this happened a day after she testified before Congress — has shut down the university for in-person classes, all online today?

JUDE TAHA: Thank you for having me.

Right now what we’re seeing at Columbia is an unprecedented act of solidarity, set up by students who initially set it up on the South Lawn and then faced violent arrests and a lot of repression from administration and ended up moving to the opposing lawn. And what we’re seeing right now is just swaths of people, initially without tents, sleeping on the ground, in sleeping bags, some of them without sleeping bags, on grass, outside in the cold, under the rain.

And what we’re seeing is just they have three solid demands. The first is divestment. The second is for Columbia to disclose their financial investments and the financial records, especially in relation to their workings with Israel. And the third is amnesty toward students. The students have been very clear in the fact that they are not moving, that they are very set in their demands.

Some negotiations are happening, from what I’ve heard from organizers at the encampment. However, nothing has been announced yet. I know there are a few things that came up yesterday that were a bit surprising, which was the repitching of the tents. Organizers have said that the administration is aware of the tents; however, that does not necessarily mean that they agree. Organizers held a town hall last night where they emphasized that, obviously, with an act of solidarity and act of protest as large as this, to take over the space in the lawn comes a level of risk. And they are very comfortable in that. They are making sure everyone is aware. There is transparency, and there’s just a community being built. And they are very clear in their demands. They have three top demands, first and furthermost which is divestment.

AMY GOODMAN: So, Jude, if you can talk about the whole progression of what happened, from Shafik, President Shafik, testifying before Congress to these, I won’t say “unprecedented,” arrests — over a hundred students were arrested — but since, I think, 1968, the protests against the Vietnam War?

JUDE TAHA: I think what had happened initially was students showed up at the lawn at around 4:30 a.m. They are members of a solidarity group called Columbia University Apartheid Divest, which is made up of many student groups. And they had been planning this for months, according to my interviews with organizers. They studied the 1968 protests. They studied the tactics used. And they were prepared to go. Initially, we did not know this as outsiders. The tents were set up, and a lot of people were caught off guard. But this has been something that the organizers have planned for, especially in relation to Minouche Shafik’s hearing. But what happened is, after they set up tents, we quickly saw an outpour of support. Picket lines were forming. Students were joining from outside. And initially what I saw to be like 40 to 50 students is now, on the opposite lawn, nearly a hundred to a hundred students coming in and out of the encampment.

The arrests were shocking. However, what was truly inspiring to see is that students did not let that deter them. Shortly after the arrests were carried out and after protests were surrounding the lawn where the original encampment was at, students starting jumping into the opposing lawn and pitching up tents there. And this is a reaction not only to Columbia’s silencing of students and the fact that students feel unheard, uncared for and not represented well by the institution that they attend, but this is also, very much so, focused towards the ongoing genocide in Gaza and the way the students are feeling, seeing the massacres happen every day, with nearly over 30,000 people have been killed. Their frustration is that they are complicit in this and their university is complicit in this. And they want to make sure that their voices are heard. And they want to make sure that what they’re asking is met. And so, this is inspired by the 1968 protests. They just decided to follow course.

AMY GOODMAN: So, something unusual was tweeted on Friday. You’re speaking to us from the Columbia J School, from the Columbia Journalism School.

JUDE TAHA: Yes.

AMY GOODMAN: I had just been at the protest after the arrests, the encampment on Thursday night. To say the least, it was not easy for anyone to get in who did not have a student ID. Even that won’t get you in right now. It was a true lockdown. And the next morning, at about 10:00, where you are, the Columbia J School tweeted, “Columbia Journalism School is committed to a free press. If you are a credentialed member of the media and have been denied access to campus, please send us a DM. We will facilitate access to campus.” This is a direct rebuke of the president, of President Shafik?

JUDE TAHA: I cannot — I cannot speak to that. I do know that our dean, Jelani Cobb, is very committed to having a space where freedom of press can thrive. And I know that Dean Cobb has been incredibly supportive of the students who have been reporting on this and is very interested in ensuring that media has access and that information is being transferred clearly and accurately. Whether it is a direct rebuke, that is unfortunately not something I am aware of.

However, I will say that since then, facilitating entrance has been increasingly challenging. I am not sure of the dynamics of the journalism school. I have been speaking with multiple journalists who are coming in to cover the encampment, and increasingly it’s been harder and harder to try and get them in. There has not been really any clear guidelines that I can share about what does that entail for the journalism school to facilitate, but what I have also been seeing is people are believing that the facilitation through the journalism school means access to the encampment. And I would like to emphasize the encampment is not facilitating with the journalism school. It is an entity that is functioning on its own. And it is a living space as much as it is, you know, a private space within the university. Students are very vulnerable there. They’re also very hesitant to speak to media. But while they do believe that the media presence is important, there has been this notion of belief that the journalism is facilitating access into the encampment, which is not true. The journalism school is helping facilitate entrance into campus for credentialed press.

AMY GOODMAN: And if you also can talk about what the police chief said in response to the Columbia president? New York Police Chief John Chell said President Shafik identified the demonstration as a “clear and present danger,” but that officers found the students to be peaceful and cooperative, Shafik warning all students participating in the encampment would be suspended. And the level of suspensions, Jude, if you can talk about that, both at Columbia and even more at Barnard, and what exactly this means? Students are locked out of their rooms almost immediately and lose their meal cards in addition to everything else?

JUDE TAHA: Yeah. To be quite honest, we have — me and a few other journalists have been reporting on this for months now. We are familiar with these students. We are familiar with these demands. And we were present from day one, from nearly 6:00 in the morning, in the original encampment. And there was no instance of violence that I am able to report. The protesters were incredibly peaceful. Their demands are largely focused on divestment. And they have community guidelines that they are asking everyone who is entering the encampment to abide by. And the community guidelines are to ensure safety, are to ensure that everyone feels comfortable in the space and to ensure that Gaza is being centered first.

In relation to what the police chief said, I have to agree that I was not able to identify any violence or any danger that is present from these students, especially right now in the second encampment, where there is a thriving community, where people are bringing food, blankets. Students are leaving their belongings, their personal belongings, for hours with no worry that they will be taken. There is no fear amongst them.

Therefore, it is truly an intimidation tactic, and the response that we have seen from President Minouche Shafik has been incredibly disheartening toward students. Students have been evicted. An organizer that I’ve spoken to yesterday is terrified. They are not comfortable walking out alone. They had to leave the state. They are being given 15 minutes to access their belongings. They are being suspended, with waiting for an appeal or waiting for a meeting with administration to understand the grounds of the suspension or what that entails. They are leaving students in limbo. The students do not feel supported. They do not know where they’re going. And it is incredibly disheartening and terrifying, for some are 18-, 19-year-olds, to be deserted by their campus.

And another thing is that the organizers have made it clear that this is an intimidation tactic by the administration, and especially in relation to President Shafik’s email that was sent at 1 a.m. last night. The organizers have stated that this is an intimidation tactic to try and scare people who are in the encampment out of their solidarity with the Gaza Solidarity Encampment and with the demands of the movement. But a lot of students are learning these risks, and they’re banding together and they’re standing together to demand amnesty. It is unclear why this is happening or the levels of suspension. Students who have been suspended but have not been evicted are concerned about when are they going to lose access to their housing. And students who have lost access to their housing were not given any clear instructions, as far as I know, for where to go next. So it is just this great limbo. And these students are sacrificing a lot for the movement and for the demands that they are asking for, but they are not being met with any support from administration or guidance. And it is unclear what President Shafik is citing when she says “danger.” And therefore, that is leaving a lot of organizers confused as to what is actually happening.

AMY GOODMAN: And among those arrested was Congressmember Ilhan Omar’s daughter, Isra Hirsi, both suspended and arrested. And finally, very quickly, before we go to professor Mamdani, the J school speaker for May 15th — and this is a long time away, so we’ll see what happens — is the Haaretz Israeli reporter Amira Hass, deeply critical of the occupation, of the war on Gaza, lived in Gaza, the only Israeli Jewish journalist to have lived there for years. Is that right?

JUDE TAHA: Yep, that is correct. As far as we know, that has not been changed. The speaker has been chosen for quite a long time now. And as far as I know, that has not been changed.

***

“No Due Process”: Columbia Prof. Mamdani Slams Arrests & Suspension of Students at Gaza Protests
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
April 22, 2024
https://www.democracynow.org/2024/4/22/ ... transcript

We speak with Mahmood Mamdani, a professor of government at Columbia who has spoken with many of the pro-Palestine protesters camping out on school grounds to show solidarity with Gaza and demand the school divest from Israel. He says there is growing outrage from faculty after the school’s leadership called in the police to raid the Gaza Solidarity Encampment and conduct mass arrests, while administrators have started suspending and evicting some students. “There has been no due process on the Columbia campus,” says Mamdani.

Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: We’re also joined by Mahmood Mamdani. Mahmood Mamdani is a Columbia University professor who addressed students participating in the Gaza Solidarity Encampment on the South Lawn in Columbia’s campus, professor of government and the author of a number of books, including Neither Settler Nor Native: The Making and Unmaking of Permanent Minorities.

Professor Mamdani, welcome back to Democracy Now! If you can just respond to what’s happening? Describe the scene as you gave your address to the students. You’ve spoken several times at the encampment.

MAHMOOD MAMDANI: I was asked by the Columbia divest committee to give a talk on the historical origins of the divestment campaign, particularly in South Africa. And I gave a talk which basically outlined that divestment was a response to settler colonialism. And I explained to them how you identify settler colonialism as a regime which has different sets of rules and laws for different groups of people in the same society; and, secondly, the point of these different rules and laws is to regulate unequal access to public resources, all the way from residence to occupation to public health to education and so on; and, finally, that this state, which enforces this unequal treatment, institutionalized, legally enforced unequal treatment of different groups, this state, its sovereignty is under the group that benefits from this inequality. So that’s the talk that I gave.

And the next day, I was invited back to talk again, because we had organized a faculty panel on antisemitism. And the point of this panel was to consider the report, the first report, of the antisemitism task force set up by the university. There were five of us on the panel. And I was invited to talk about that, which I did. And I told them that we went through this report, we combed through this report, because we had been — prior to the issue of the report, there had been a faculty discussion on what is antisemitism. And the co-chair of the panel had sort of said that, “No, we don’t have a definition of 'antisemitism,' but we know it when we hear it or when we see it.” She was using a judge’s response to a question decades ago on what you understand by “pornography.” But the problem was that this particular panel was supposed to educate the campus. So, for the rest of us who don’t know it when we see it or hear it, what is antisemitism? So we were reading the report to see if there was an answer in this.

And there was only one sentence in this report which referred to antisemitism, and that sentence said, roughly — I’m just paraphrasing it here — that many Jewish students who support the state of Israel are afraid, and many other Jewish students who are critical of the state of Israel are also afraid. So, this was no evidence of antisemitism. This was evidence of a dividing, of an increasing polarization amongst Jewish students, those for and those against the state of Israel. Apart from that, the entire report was like a law-and-order report. It was all about what kind of regulations, what kind of notice needs to be given in advance, where students can gather to demonstrate, where they cannot gather to demonstrate, the hours, etc., etc.

Prior to that report, there had been a statement signed by 18 deans of Columbia University which identified a set of slogans, which they said, believed had created and incited the climate on campus. And these slogans included “from the river to the sea,” “intifada,” “by any means necessary,” etc., etc. There were, I think, about six, seven slogans. I had written a piece in the Spectator saying —

AMY GOODMAN: The student newspaper.

MAHMOOD MAMDANI: Sorry?

AMY GOODMAN: The student newspaper.

MAHMOOD MAMDANI: The Spectator, the Columbia University newspaper. So, I had written a piece in it saying that these seven, eight different expressions indicated the lines of differences within the campus. And what’s the point of saying that these should not be discussed? If we want a discussion, then we should promote a discussion on this, not silence different voices on it.

AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to get your response, very quickly, to the president, to the White House, to read you a statement from Andrew Bates, the White House deputy press secretary, who said, “While every American has the right to peaceful [protest], calls for violence and physical intimidation targeting Jewish students and the Jewish community are blatantly Antisemitic, unconscionable, and dangerous — they have absolutely no place on any college campus, or anywhere in the United States of America. And echoing the rhetoric of terrorist organizations, especially in the wake of the worst massacre committed against the Jewish people since the Holocaust, is despicable. We condemn these statements in the strongest terms,” the White House deputy press secretary said. Your response, Professor Mamdani?

MAHMOOD MAMDANI: Well, I think calls for violence against any group of students, against Jewish students, against non-Jewish students, these are despicable. They need to be taken seriously, and they need to be dealt with. But we need to be sure that all disciplining is done after proper investigation and due process. There has been no due process on the Columbia campus. There has been no proper investigation. The Columbia University president spoke to the University Senate and laid out her plans. And the Senate disagreed unanimously, and still she went ahead. In the past, the response to differences on the Columbia campus have been negotiations. She has not resorted — she has not even talked about negotiations.

AMY GOODMAN: And finally, do you plan to go back to give a speech? And your final comments on the lockdown right now, all in-person classes canceled, online classes only, Professor Mamdani?

MAHMOOD MAMDANI: There is a 12:00 meeting of the Faculty of Arts and Sciences in law library. I will attend that meeting. And then there is a 2 p.m. gathering of faculty on the steps of law library, and I will also be attending that gathering.

AMY GOODMAN: Well, we thank you so much for being with us. Mahmood Mamdani is a professor of government in the anthropology department at Columbia University who’s addressed the students participating in the Gaza Solidarity Encampment on Columbia’s campus several times last week.

***

“Collective Punishment”: As Gaza Assault Continues, Israel Ramps Up Violence in Occupied West Bank
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
April 22, 2024
https://www.democracynow.org/2024/4/22/ ... transcript

As the death toll in Gaza tops 34,000 Palestinians killed since October 7, Israeli forces and settlers have continued to ramp up violence in the occupied West Bank. The army killed at least 14 people during a two-day raid on the Nur Shams refugee camp near the city of Tulkarm over the weekend, and separately killed a Palestinian ambulance driver near Nablus as he was trying to reach Palestinians injured in an attack by Jewish settlers. Ramallah-based writer Mariam Barghouti says the Israeli military and armed settlers “are trying to continue the illegal annexation of lands in the West Bank” and says Israel is deliberately targeting civilians and civilian infrastructure, just as in Gaza, to make life unbearable. She also responds to reports that the Biden administration is preparing to sanction the Netzah Yehuda battalion, a notorious unit within the Israeli military composed of ultra-Orthodox soldiers that is accused of carrying out human rights violations against Palestinians in the West Bank. “It should not be against a select few. This entire regime is engaging in crimes against humanity, and it is U.S.-sponsored. It is being paid for by American tax dollars.”

Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman.

We turn now to the occupied West Bank, where Palestinians staged a general strike Sunday after Israeli forces killed at least 14 people during a raid that lasted more than 50 hours on the Nur Shams refugee camp near the city of Tulkarm. The residents of Nur Shams said the Israeli siege left the refugee camp uninhabitable.

AHMAD AL-AZZEH: [translated] Seeing it is not like hearing about it. You can see with your eyes what happened: destruction, Gaza number two. What happened is that they left no trees, nor people, nor stones. It is unbearable, uninhabitable by humans. What happened is destruction. Destruction. They turned the camp into something uninhabitable. It is terrible.

AMY GOODMAN: In a separate attack, the Palestinian Red Crescent Society reports Israeli settlers shot dead a Palestinian ambulance driver south of Nablus as he was trying to reach Palestinians injured during a raid by Jewish settlers.

For more, we go to Ramallah, to Mariam Barghouti, Palestinian writer and journalist. Her recent op-ed for Al Jazeera is headlined “Palestinians and the world must not lose hope.”

Mariam, welcome back to Democracy Now! If you can explain what happened over the weekend, not only — just in the occupied West Bank overall?

MARIAM BARGHOUTI: Thanks for having me back, Amy.

So, what we have seen in the West Bank, across the weekend and in general and in this month, is an intensification and escalation by the Israeli military, as well as armed Israeli settlers, that are trying to continue the illegal annexation of lands in the West Bank. The concentration of these attacks, as we have seen earlier, have been in Tulkarm and Jenin, which is north of the West Bank. And that is because there is few youth groups that are engaging in armed confrontation. But as you have seen, the Israeli military, just as it is conducting in Gaza, is trying to focus on the attack of the civilian infrastructure. It is making any life for Palestinians unbearable, and it is using excessive violence and slaughter to do so. So, what we are seeing is a disregard for Palestinian lives. And we are seeing it happen in the most brutal and savage ways, that I don’t think any of us really could have imagined.

And over the weekend, Palestinians went on a strike, yesterday, in mourning of 14 Palestinians killed in one of the longest siege being conducted by the Israeli military on Nur Shams refugee camp. This is an attack on Palestinians that were already displaced from their homes in 1948 only to have the same army come back and attack the generations that came afterwards that chose to fight for life. Fourteen were killed, and of those, two were children, which is on brand for Israel. A fifth of all Palestinians killed in the West Bank were children, as we have seen in Gaza, where nearly half of all Palestinians killed are children and minors.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about the significance of Nur Shams, the refugee camp there in Tulkarm?

MARIAM BARGHOUTI: The significance of Tulkarm and Nur Shams is like the significance of Jenin refugee camp, is like the significance of the Old City in Nablus, in that it allows for youth who have refused to be silenced, who have witnessed the brutality engaged against them, from arrests under administrative detention by the Israeli military to the continuation of Israeli settler attacks. So, you have the Nur Shams Brigade, and you have the Jenin Brigade, which is youth with very humble weapons, that are no match — no match — for Israel’s nuclear army, who have chosen to confront the Israeli military.

And we need to keep in mind that the Israeli military went and engaged in an offensive, in an attack on the refugee camp, and these youth engaged in confrontation to try and protect the refugee camp from the destruction. And what Israel did is go ahead and greenlight an attack on the civilian infrastructure in order to punish Palestinians in a punitive and collective measure, which, again, is part of Israel’s policy in order to ensure the pushing out of Palestinians, in order to ensure the erasure of Palestinian existence and to create the space to replace them by Israeli settlers.

AMY GOODMAN: Mariam, the Biden administration is reportedly preparing to issue sanctions on Netzah Yehuda, an ultra-Orthodox Israeli military unit accused of committing human rights abuses against Palestinians in the occupied West Bank. Benjamin Netanyahu, the prime minister, has vowed to fight any sanctions on the battalion. The Guardian reports soldiers from the unit were accused in the death last year of Omar Assad, a 78-year-old U.S. citizen who died of a heart attack after being detained, bound, gagged, then abandoned by members of the unit. Can you tell us more about them?

MARIAM BARGHOUTI: I mean, I think, in this regard, it’s really fruitless to give more attention to the Biden administration’s symbolic gestures, that are very hollow. Likewise, Benjamin Netanyahu is corrupt, known for corruption, has engaged in crimes against humanity. These sanctions mean nothing in light of the billions of dollars that the U.S. Congress just approved for Israel in support, again, for this military that is conducting crimes against humanity.

And in regards to sanctions in order to preserve citizenship rights — right? — the dual citizen, let’s go back to Shireen Abu Akleh, who was a journalist, was wearing a press vest that had the press insignia on it, and still was shot and killed on May 11th, 2022, by the Israeli military. And until now, no accountability was held — none — for Shireen Abu Akleh, who was press, who was a dual citizen with the United States and Palestinian. So, the Biden administration is really trying to scurry, using these words like “sanctions,” while putting amendments of it’s against a select few. It should not be against a select few. This entire regime is engaging in crimes against humanity, and it is U.S.-sponsored. It is being paid for by American tax dollars. And the U.S. is also sending soldiers on the ground to engage in these crimes. So I think these are just hollow.

AMY GOODMAN: I also wanted to get your response to the breaking news that Israel’s chief of military intelligence has resigned. Major General Aharon Haliva is the first senior Israeli official to resign over Hamas’s October 7th attack on Israel. In a statement, he said his office, quote, “did not live up to the task we were entrusted with.” Many see this as a direct hit on Benjamin Netanyahu, calling for him to resign, as well.

MARIAM BARGHOUTI: I think Haliva’s resignation again is telling of how the Israeli security institution is failing. It has constantly tried to showcase to the world that it is an institution that provides national security, when it is an institution that perpetuates crimes of persecution and apartheid. And what is happening now is his resignation is an attempt to evade future accountability as a commander or as a senior position in this institution of repression and abuse. So, again, what I see as an evasion of accountability for what is to come, because Israel is committing and engaging in crimes of genocide, in not just Gaza but in the West Bank and as well as against Palestinians with Israeli citizenship, where the Israeli police shot and killed four Palestinians with Israeli citizenship so far.

AMY GOODMAN: Finally, Mariam Barghouti, I wanted to ask you about the attack on journalists. You mentioned Shireen Abu Akleh, who was killed May 11th, 2022 — May 11th, 2022 or ’23, was it?

MARIAM BARGHOUTI: ’22.

AMY GOODMAN: '23, 2023 [sic]. The memorial — 2022. But I wanted to ask you about the other journalists. I mean, it's about 100 Palestinian journalists who have been killed since October 7th.

MARIAM BARGHOUTI: Thank you for asking that, Amy. The numbers are actually higher than that. It’s closer to 135 Palestinian media personnel being attacked and killed since October 7th by the Israeli military. And this is really important, because what Israel is doing is targeting journalists. It is not accidental. It is a strategic attack with precision in order to attempt and control the narrative of what is happening on the ground. And, you know, as Palestinian journalists, there’s not a lot, right? There’s few media personnel. So, this attack is very dangerous, because the more and more we’re risking our lives, the more and more we’re getting killed, with the impunity being provided to Israel, then more and more it is able to try and control the narrative and dub its attack and its attempt at erasing Palestinians as self-defense, when it is de facto the slaughter and ethnic cleansing of a population under the pretext of defense.

AMY GOODMAN: Mariam Barghouti, I want to thank you for being with us, Palestinian journalist in the occupied West Bank, in Ramallah. We’ll link to your piece at Al Jazeera, “Palestinians and the world must not lose hope.”

***

“Enormous Expansion of the Law”: James Bamford on FISA Extension, U.S.-Israel Data Sharing
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
April 22, 2024
https://www.democracynow.org/2024/4/22/ ... transcript

President Biden has signed legislation to reauthorize Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act despite years of protest from rights groups and privacy experts who say the law is routinely used to conduct warrantless surveillance on millions of American citizens. The Senate approved the FISA bill on Friday in a 60-34 vote, and critics say it not only reauthorizes domestic spying but also dramatically expands its scope. “It’s an enormous amount of data that they’re collecting and very few rules” limiting its collection, says investigative journalist James Bamford. He warns that personal information collected by U.S. intelligence is also shared with Israel, which uses the data to target people in Gaza. “The U.S. has got to stop supplying all this data and the targeting materials,” he says. Bamford’s new article for The Nation is headlined “The NSA Wants Carte Blanche for Warrantless Surveillance.”

Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org. I’m Amy Goodman.

President Biden signed legislation to reauthorize Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, known as FISA, despite warnings from privacy experts the bill could greatly expand the ability of the government to conduct warrantless domestic surveillance. The Senate approved the FISA bill Friday in a 60-to-34 vote. Critics included Democratic Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon, who described the bill as, quote, “one of the most dramatic and terrifying expansions of government surveillance authority in history.”

SEN. RON WYDEN: If you have access to any communications, the government can force you to help it spy. That means anybody with access to a server, a wire, a cable box, a Wi-Fi router, a phone or a computer. … If this provision is enacted, the government can deputize any of these people against their will and force them, in effect, to become what amounts to an agent for Big Brother.

AMY GOODMAN: For more, we’re joined by James Bamford, longtime investigative journalist, who writes about this in his new piece for The Nation headlined “The NSA Wants Carte Blanche for Warrantless Surveillance.” In 1982, Jim Bamford published The Puzzle Palace, the first book exposing the inner workings of the NSA, much larger than the CIA.

Jim Bamford, thanks so much for being with us again. Explain what this FISA law now allows.

JAMES BAMFORD: Thanks, Amy.

Well, it’s an enormous expansion of the law. It started out fairly modestly, and now it’s expanded enormously. Few people understand how much data really is collected. The NSA has this enormous facility out in Utah, a data center. It’s five times the size of the U.S. Capitol. And it holds up to a zettabyte or a yottabyte. That’s the highest numbers there are in terms of storage of data, enormous amounts of data. And that’s what is going to happen now, is the expansion of the law, the expansion of the collection of data. And a lot of that data will be American, Americans who have no idea they’re being eavesdropped on, because they’re going to become repositories in that data center.

The way the law works right now is that if you want to eavesdrop on an American in the United States, then you need a warrant. However, if you’re calling somebody outside of the United States, another person outside the United States who’s not an American citizen, then you have really no rights. They can eavesdrop on that conversation as much as possible. They can collect all those conversations and store them in the Utah data center. And then the FBI will then have the opportunity to go in there and search for whatever they want without a warrant. So, they could get your email address or your name on Facebook or whatever they — whatever identifying information they can, and then search that database to see what communications you have had outside the United States. So, it’s an enormous amount of data that they’re collecting and very few rules in terms of warrant requirements to obtain that data.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about the parallels you see between the illegal eavesdropping from the Watergate scandal of the '70s then and the warrantless surveillance permitted under Section 702 that's just been signed off on so it wouldn’t lapse?

JAMES BAMFORD: Well, after Watergate, there was a focus on eavesdropping. But again, that was a very long time ago, and that was when most people communicated on telephones. And there was no data collection. There was no email. So it was microscopic compared to what there is today.

The way it works is the NSA has satellites all over outside the Earth collecting satellite data from digital receivers, from communications devices, from iPhones and so forth. They have taps on undersea cables that come ashore. It’s called cable heads. And they have facilities there to pick up the data. All that data funnels into both NSA in Maryland and also in Utah. So there’s an enormous collection of data that I don’t think people have really a real concept of how much the NSA collects. It’s just enormous compared to what it was in the days of Watergate.

AMY GOODMAN: Jim Bamford, I wanted to ask you about another new piece you’ve written for The Nation, headlined “How US Intelligence and an American Company Feed Israel’s Killing Machine in Gaza.” Earlier this month, we spoke to Israeli investigative journalist Yuval Abraham, who first reported this story for +972 and Local Call headlined “'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel’s bombing spree in Gaza.” I asked him to describe the program.

YUVAL ABRAHAM: After October 7th, the military basically made a decision that all of these tens of thousands of people are now people that could potentially be bombed inside their houses, meaning not only killing them but everybody who’s in the building — the children, the families. And they understood that in order to try to attempt to do that, they are going to have to rely on this AI machine called Lavender with very minimal human supervision.

AMY GOODMAN: So, if you can talk about this, Jim Bamford, and also talk about Palantir and what it is?

JAMES BAMFORD: Israel has an equivalent of the NSA. It’s called Unit 8200. They’re very sophisticated. It’s basically the same type of organization as the NSA. And Palantir is one of the companies that’s given — it’s an American company that’s based in Denver, and it has given an enormous amount of assistance to Unit 8200 in terms of targeting. And that goes to the military. So, the military targets civilians, lots of civilians. Most of the people killed were civilians. Women and children have been the people who have been targeted in the Occupied Territories, in Gaza. So, the NSA gives Unit 8200 an enormous amount of data from what it collects. When I interviewed Ed Snowden back in Moscow after he went to Moscow, taking all the data from NSA, he said that was one of the worst offenses he saw when he was at NSA, that they were giving all this American data, Palestinians talking overseas to relatives or friends in Palestine and the occupied territory, and NSA was giving that data to Unit 8200.

So, you have Unit 8200 that’s collecting a lot of data from the United States, from Americans. They’re using it for targeting. And Palantir is one of the companies that’s enormously sophisticated in terms of targeting. So, what the problem is here is that you’re getting information from the United States that the Israelis are using to target the civilians in Gaza. And there’s been 33,000 killed now, so it’s just an enormous problem that the U.S. has got to stop supplying all this data and the targeting materials to Gaza — or, rather, to the Israelis to target Gaza.

AMY GOODMAN: Jim Bamford, we’d like to do Part 2 of this discussion and post this online at democracynow.org. James Bamford is a longtime investigative journalist. We’ll link to your pieces for The Nation magazine, one called “The NSA Wants Carte Blanche for Warrantless Surveillance,” and the other, “How US Intelligence and an American Company Feed Israel’s Killing Machine in Gaza.”

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Pro-Palestinian Campus Encampments Spread Nationwide Amid Mass Arrests at Columbia, NYU & Yale
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
April 23, 2024
https://www.democracynow.org/2024/4/23/ ... transcript

Palestinian solidarity protests and encampments are appearing on college campuses from Massachusetts to California to protest Israel’s attacks on Gaza and to call for divestment from Israeli apartheid. This week, police have raided encampments and arrested students at Yale and New York University. Palestinian American scholar and New York University professor Helga Tawil-Souri describes forming a faculty buffer to protect students, negotiating with police, and the ensuing crackdown that led to over 100 arrests Monday night. Uptown in New York City, the encampment at Columbia University is entering its seventh day despite mass arrests of protesters last week. “In my opinion, the NYPD were called in under false pretenses by the president of the university,” says Joseph Slaughter, professor at Columbia University. “The university is being run as a sort of ad-hocracy at this point, the senior administration making up policies and procedures and prohibitions on the fly, changing them in the middle of the night.”

Transcript

AMY GOODMAN: As Israel’s assault on Gaza enters its 200th day, Palestinian solidarity protests and encampments are spreading on college campuses across the United States, inspired by the Gaza Solidarity Encampment at Columbia University. Here in New York, police raided a student encampment at New York University Monday night. Police arrested more than 150 people, including students and 20 faculty members. Earlier on Monday, police at Yale University arrested 60 protesters, including 47 students who had set up an encampment to demand the school divest from weapons manufacturers.

At Columbia, the student encampment has entered its seventh day. On Monday night, about 100 Columbia student protesters and faculty took part in a Gaza Liberation Seder to mark the start of the Jewish holiday of Passover, or Pesach. On Monday, hundreds of Columbia professors held a mass walkout. This is Columbia history professor Christopher Brown.

CHRISTOPHER BROWN: Thursday, April 18, 2024, will be remembered as a shameful day in Columbia’s history.

PROTESTERS: Shame!

CHRISTOPHER BROWN: The president’s decision to send riot police to pick up peaceful protesters on our campus was unprecedented, unjustified, disproportionate, divisive and dangerous.

PROTESTER 1: Yes!

PROTESTER 2: Shame on her!

AMY GOODMAN: Student encampments are now in place at numerous other schools, including University of Michigan-Ann Arbor; University of California, Berkeley; University of Maryland; MIT and Emerson College in Boston.

We’re joined now by two professors. Joseph Slaughter is associate professor of English and comparative literature at Columbia University. He is the executive director of the Institute for the Study of Human Rights, which put out a public statement condemning the repression of student protests at Columbia and the calling in of the New York police, who made over a hundred arrests. Also with us, New York University professor Helga Tawil-Souri. She’s a leading Palestinian American scholar of media, culture and communication, co-editor of the book Gaza as Metaphor.

OK, we’re going to begin with New York University, with professor Tawil-Souri. You have been at the encampment since it began at NYU Monday morning at 4:00, and you just came from jail support, where, what, over 140 people, including 20 of your peers, NYU professors, were arrested. Can you explain what’s going on at NYU?

HELGA TAWIL-SOURI: Yeah, sure. So, the students decided to start an encampment yesterday early in the morning in support of Gaza, in support of Palestine, also kind of in support, obviously, of other students, at Columbia and otherwise. And very early on already, from the very beginning of the first tents being set up, the NYU security guards came and NYPD came. But quickly, kind of a sort of deescalation, if you want, kind of took place between faculty members and security guards, and NYPD left. And it was peaceful all day long. And, you know, there was a lot of sort of negotiation back and forth between the faculty and the security guards on behalf of the students.

And at some point in the afternoon, kind of, you know, things — like, police presence was kind of escalating, and the negotiations kind of stopped. And at some point, the NYU security guards were like, “All right, well, we’re just” — they made it pretty clear that NYPD presence was just sort of imminent at that point and kind of started coming up with all kinds of reasons as to why they were going to show up and so on, kind of kept pushing the bar in different directions. And then the NYPD came.

Faculty kind of had made a sort of frontline kind of buffer zone at the very beginning. They were arrested very quickly, and then the police force kind of forcing their way into the sort of plaza where the students had their tents set up, and extremely violently kind of took down all the tents, were throwing chairs around, and then arrested all of the students that were there, and then also had a third wave of arrests of other people that were kind of still in that area, as well. So, yeah, 20 faculty members ended up in prison — or, sorry, were arrested. And I think the number of total arrests was around 140, 145.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Professor Tawil-Souri, at any time were the students in any way disrupting the classes in the university or the business of the university?

HELGA TAWIL-SOURI: I mean, not really, I mean, in the sense that, you know, they got there pretty early in the morning, and very quickly NYU security guards decided to kind of barricade that area. So, if anybody was disrupting, it was actually NYU security and not the students, because they’re the ones who kind of set up all the barriers and would forbid students from — students, whether they were coming for the encampment or just trying to get to class — would not actually let them access that way, so they had to kind of go all the way around and so on. And so, there was very little movement in terms of letting people in or out of the encampment. And we had to sort of negotiate, like for bathroom breaks and stuff like that.

And, you know, the disruption — I mean, we’re told that, “Oh, the disruption was part of the protest — right? — and the chanting and the singing.” But, you know, it’s New York City. It’s really loud. There was construction right across the street, so it’s really hard for me to understand that that was a sort of disruption. So, really, the disruption, I think, was much more on the part of the security guards who really sort of blocked off that entire area.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And to your knowledge, did the administration or the president have any discussions with the NYU faculty before calling in the police?

HELGA TAWIL-SOURI: So, I, myself, and a number of my colleagues, in terms of like NYU faculty, sort of went back and forth numerous times with a couple of the deans and a couple — and the head of NYU security, and so kind of negotiated sort of back and forth about, you know: Can we let the kids out to the bathroom? Can we come in? Can we go out? Can we bring more people in? Can we bring more people out? But not directly with the president of the university, but just mostly the head of security, and a couple of times with the NYPD, certainly early in the morning.

And, you know, I mean, one of the things that, you know, I mean, we’ve seen sort of the — we’ve seen the response of the president of the university, saying that, “Oh, there was a breach in the barrier.” And, I mean, I can tell you — I was there all day — that breach in the barrier was really not a breach in that sense. I mean, there were a couple of students who sort of went in. I think the concern was as to whether or not we could control whether the people that were going onto the plaza were NYU students. And so we offered numerous times, like, “Well, we’re happy to go around and kind of ask all the students for their ID cards.” And at some point, the security guards said, “OK, fine, we’ll do this.” And then, suddenly they said no, and they sort of came up with all sorts of reasons as to why we weren’t kind of following rules, and, ultimately, you know, claimed that we were trespassing on our own campus, right? I mean, it was a presumably private part of the university, and it was NYU students and NYU faculty that are then charged with trespassing and then violently kind of thrown out from that space.

AMY GOODMAN: I want to bring professor Joseph Slaughter into this conversation. You’re at Columbia. You’re associate professor of English and comparative literature there, and you’re the executive director of the Institute for the Study of Human Rights at Columbia University. It was your president, President Minouche Shafik, who called out the New York Police Department. This was a day after she testified before Congress. Can you talk about your response to the encampment and then the arrest of over a hundred students?

JOSEPH SLAUGHTER: Thank you, Amy. I certainly can.

So, the response that we had at the Institute for the Study of Human Rights was that we immediately recognized the infringement of student rights to protest peacefully and freedoms of speech on campus and the threat, the dramatic threat, it raised, that the bringing in the police, the university president calling in the police, raised immediately, of course, the specter of '68, which I'm glad you’ll be talking about — you’ll be talking about a minute later.

There are a number of things I would like to say about the bringing in of the police. We have, actually, in the wake of 1968, a very strong set of university statutes that include things like protections for speech and protest on campus. They effectively are the constitution of Columbia University. They are the product of — the good product of 1968, establishing systems of shared governance between faculty, students and the administration. And there are emergency powers that the president has to protect faculty, students, the Columbia community, in the case of imminent threats to people and property on campus that are spelled out in the — loosely in the university statutes.

The president, however, has an absolute obligation — it’s spelled out very clearly — to consult with the Executive Committee of the University Senate, which includes students and faculty, before bringing any police — external police forces onto campus. In this case, she approached, on the very first day of the Columbia encampment, which was a peaceful, nonviolent protest, not disturbing, in my opinion, the Columbia environment, the Columbia campus, and certainly posing no threat to persons or property. She approached the Executive Committee of the University Senate, asking for their permission to invite the NYPD in to shut down, to squelch the protest. The Executive Committee — the faculty and the students on the Executive Committee voted unanimously to reject her request to bring in New York police. She did it anyway, thus violating not only the statutes, in my opinion, certainly the long traditions of shared governance, the long traditions of protest and protections of speech on campus, as well as the compact between students, faculty and the administration, to act unilaterally, essentially throwing out the rulebook and throwing out the constitution, the statutes of the university.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Professor Slaughter, this whole issue of within 24 hours students receiving notices of suspensions? What kind of due process occurred here?

JOSEPH SLAUGHTER: That’s a great question, and I think it’s something that’s extremely important for people to understand. In the letter that President Shafik sent the NYPD, the chief of police, asking them for their intervention, she claimed that the students were being suspended for violations of the university policies and that, therefore, they were trespassing on Columbia property. The students, the 108 students who were arrested, were charged with trespassing. However, in fact, the vast majority of those students — there were a number of exceptions from Barnard, apparently, but the vast majority of those students were in fact not suspended until 24 hours after the arrests. The suspension notices that the students received now cite the arrests themselves as part of the cause for suspension. In other words, the logic was circular. They called in the New York Police Department on the premise that the students were trespassing, when they hadn’t yet been suspended. And they are now suspended on the premise that they had violated trespassing — New York trespassing laws, and therefore needed to be suspended and were guilty. In my opinion, the NYPD were called in under false pretenses by the president of the university.

AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to get your response to the New York police chief. John Chell said that President Shafik identified the demonstration as a “clear and present danger,” but that officers found the students to be peaceful and cooperative.

JOSEPH SLAUGHTER: I think this is also something that’s absolutely important for people to know. In fact, John Chell, the chief of patrol, said that the — disavowed the language of “clear and present danger.” The president had used the language, in the exact language taken from the university statutes, of “clear and present danger to the substantial functioning of the university.” She did not, however, say that the students posed a clear and present danger to persons and property, which are the two primary criteria for bringing in police onto campus to protect the Columbia community. In other words, at the moment in which she was making a speech for which she could be held legally responsible — that is, writing to the police department to call in the police department — she refused to use the — to say that the students were a clear and present danger to Columbia faculty and persons and property. In other words, while she was sending messaging out, while the university administration was sending messaging out through all of its channels, by email and public announcements, saying that these students posed a danger, that’s not the language they used to talk to the — to invite the police in. The chief of patrol said, in fact, that the students posed no danger, disavowed the language of clear and present danger, saying that’s President Shafik’s words, not his, and that the students were protesting peacefully, saying what they wanted to say peacefully, and in no way resisted arrest.

AMY GOODMAN: What happened yesterday? Talk about the — you have the student encampment on the South Lawn, and then you have the professors going into Low Library for a meeting.

JOSEPH SLAUGHTER: So, the university is being run as a sort of ad-hocracy at this point, the senior administration making up policies and procedures and prohibitions on the fly, changing them in the middle of the night. One of those prohibitions was that no protest could take place on the steps of Low Library. I assume you will be showing images later about protests in 1968 of Low Library. The faculty, in response — a broad coalition of faculty, in response to the student arrests and to the bringing of police onto campus, chose yesterday to walk out at 2 p.m., in full regalia for many of us, to stand on the steps of Low Library in front of the statue of Alma Mater, a heralded tradition of protest on campus, to defend our students, to defend the rights of students, to denounce the police actions and the president’s sanctioning of the police actions, to call for the immediate repeal of the suspension of our students, the restoration of all of their rights, the expungement of their records, and to submit an appeal for a vote of censure in the University Senate of Minouche Shafik and her senior administration.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Professor Slaughter, not only at Columbia, but at universities across the country, we are repeatedly hearing that these protests in support of the Palestinians who are being attacked in Gaza, that this is making life unsafe, these protests are making life unsafe for Jewish students on these campuses. What’s your response to that?

JOSEPH SLAUGHTER: So, I have multiple responses. The messaging out of Columbia has consistently emphasized the dangers of these protests in particular to Jewish and Israeli and pro-Israeli students. In fact, the messaging has been one of fear towards those students explicitly. The messaging, at the same time, has been one of fear to students — to pro-Palestinian students, to anti-Zionist Jewish students, to other students who want to think about and talk about and discuss the questions of Palestine, the questions of Israel, which is the duty of a university to think about these hard problems. The message to those students have been — is also fear, but a fear by omission, the university not ever acknowledging any of the fears, the Islamaphobic actions that are taking place on campus, any of the attacks that have taken place on campus. And so, in some ways, the university itself, it seems to me, in its public messaging since October has ginned up fear both among Jewish students and pro-Palestinian students.

The campus, in fact — the kind of impromptu and improvised policies that the administration has unilaterally imposed, without consultation from the University Senate, without the traditions of shared governance, have, in fact, in my opinion, chilled speech, not just of pro-Palestinian protesters, but also of pro-Israeli protesters, and has absolutely chilled speech in classrooms and in other kind of forums on campus to be able to even talk about the problems that lie at the bottom of all of this — that is, Palestinian rights to self-determination, Israeli rights to security.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Professor Tawil-Souri, what do you see happening in the coming days at NYU?

HELGA TAWIL-SOURI: Well, it’s hard to say. But maybe, quickly, if I could just add one thing? I mean, you know, a lot of the students and the faculty at NYU who were part of the encampment, and in general are part of sort of, like, SJP and FJP and so on, are actually Jewish, right? So, that’s number one.

The other thing that I think is — you know, I mean, I don’t know how much news has sort of come out since yesterday about what happened, but when the NYPD finally came in and sort of broke the encampment apart, it was in the middle of Muslim Maghrib prayers, like the evening prayers, right? So I think that kind of speaks a little bit to what you’re saying — right? — in terms like the way that it’s not really about sort of one group or the other, but also how different groups are kind of treated.

In terms of what happens at NYU from this point on, I mean, I can tell you the students feel very sort of spirited, in the sense of, like, they want to kind of continue. You know, for them, it’s about, “OK, fine, you took us down, but we’re going to continue. We have the right to protest. We have the right to academic speech. We have the right to free speech. And we have the right to kind of stand up for our pro-Palestinian voices, basically.” I’m not quite sure — I mean, I can’t sort of say how the university is going to respond, but, you know, I think the students are going to sort of have to figure out, like, how are they going to be able to protest. So, unlike Columbia, NYU is this kind of a somewhat urban kind of campus, right? So there is no lawn, if you want, to kind of go and protest on. And so I think that’s part of what we saw yesterday, is this plaza where the encampment took place is private property, but, you know, the moment you step off of the steps, it becomes New York City property, right? So, there’s a very sort of blurry line as to where does the NYPD kind of sort of stop its sort of jurisdiction, if you want to call it that, versus where does campus security stop. So I think that’s a little bit different in terms of NYU, and I think that’s a sort of challenge, if you want, that is faced by the students. But I think the students kind of are very resolved, in the sense of, like, “We’re going to keep going with this.”

AMY GOODMAN: Professor Tawil-Souri, The New York Times subheadline was “Dozens were arrested on Monday at N.Y.U. and Yale, but officials there and at campuses across the U.S. are running out of options to corral protests,” they said. What are the options that officials have at these universities, besides arrests and suspensions?

HELGA TAWIL-SOURI: That’s a great question. I mean, maybe first to kind of have a discussion, right? Like kind of, you know, be sort of very open about, like, “All right, well, let’s sort of sit down and talk about these things. Let’s host a number of different events. Let’s host a number of different speakers. Let’s allow for these kind of speakers and events to happen.” I think what we see is also a sort of shutdown of certain kinds of things, right? Let’s allow for whether it’s classes or teach-ins or all of that.

And in terms of the protesters, I mean, yesterday there was a sort of — you know, I think part of what happened, certainly at NYU, is that there was a kind of compression, if you will, right? So, people in support were coming to sort of demonstrate and speak with the students and so on, but couldn’t kind of access, right? So they bleed into the streets, and the students can’t get out. And so it’s sort of a bit of a sort of pressure cooker, in the sense that, you know, of course you’re creating this kind of barricade that becomes very difficult to manage, but it’s also becoming a way that the barrier itself is actually creating part of the problem, right? So, I think if you kind of have a way to kind of figure out how to sort of allow people to move around, to not necessarily prevent them from moving, I think a lot of problems would kind of not exist to begin with.

AMY GOODMAN: Same question, Professor Slaughter.

JOSEPH SLAUGHTER: Thank you. One of the things that President Shafik said in response to a question at Congress last week that I found most disturbing that hasn’t been commented on at all is that what she’s learned over this last six months is that our rules weren’t made for this moment. And this justifies in some ways the administration throwing out the rulebook and coming up with impromptu policies on how to police speech.

In fact, the rules were made exactly for this moment. They were made for 1968 — they were made from 1968 and to prevent a repeat of 1968. We have an extremely robust rules for the protections of speech and protest on campus. We have an extremely robust system for protecting due process rights for students when they have violated or are accused of having violated those protections. If this administration had chosen to lean into the statutes of the university and the rules that have kept our community together for 50 years, we would be in a much better place, with faculty and students on board.

AMY GOODMAN: Well, I’m glad you went back in history, because that’s where we’re going right now, Professor Slaughter of Columbia University and Professor Helga Tawil-Souri of New York University.

****

Juan González Reflects on Historic 1968 Columbia Protests & Crackdown on Gaza Solidarity Encampment
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
April 23, 2024
https://www.democracynow.org/2024/4/23/ ... transcript

Fifty-six years ago today, hundreds of students at Columbia University in New York started a revolt on campus, occupying school buildings and disrupting class to protest the school’s ties to the Vietnam War and racism in New York. Democracy Now! co-host Juan González, who participated in the 1968 protests when hundreds of students were injured by police and arrested, speaks about the rebellion and how it compares to Columbia’s crackdown on pro-Palestinian protesters occupying campus today. “What really strikes me about this response is the total flouting of any kind of democratic process by the current administration compared to what happened in 1968,” says González. “These students are protesting a genocide that is occurring before the eyes of the entire world and that is being funded by U.S. arms. And if anyone has the right to rebel and to stand up against injustice, these students do.”

Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now! I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan González.

Fifty-six years ago today, hundreds of students at Columbia University here in New York started a revolt on campus. They occupied five buildings, including the President’s Office in Low Library. The students barricaded themselves inside the buildings for a week. They were protesting Columbia’s ties to military research and plans to build a university gymnasium in a public park in Harlem. The protests began less than three weeks after the assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King. The 1968 Columbia uprising led to one of the largest mass arrests in New York City history. A week into the strike, April 30th, New York City police stormed the campus of Columbia University. Hundreds of students were injured, 700 arrested. Images of the police assault were broadcast around the country. This is a clip from Columbia Revolt by Third World Newsreel.

STUDENT STRIKER 1: They got over 700 of us on charges of criminal trespass, resisting arrest, all kinds of other [bleep], some of which was real and some of which was completely fake.

STUDENT STRIKER 2: I know of nurses and doctors that pleaded with the police not to proceed, to please let these men alone. And they would say, “No, no. Get away. This is our job.”

STUDENT STRIKER 3: I was arrested. They would not allow me to see a doctor. I had broken ribs. My face was cut. I got hit with a pistol under the eye and was bleeding there. And I wasn’t allowed to see a doctor 'til I got out of court, which was approximately 10 hours later. But I was awarded a fellowship for next year. What the hell does — I'm sorry. What does it mean? I’m going to strike. I hope every — I don’t see how any teacher, I don’t see how any student can attend this school anymore. And I was completely liberal about the whole thing. But this bust has radicalized everybody, and me very personally.

STUDENT: I was a nonviolent student. I was completely passive. I didn’t care what happened. I was completely neutral. I’m not neutral any longer. I’ll occupy buildings tomorrow.

AMY GOODMAN: The 1968 Columbia uprising inspired student protests across the country. This is Democracy Now!’s Juan González, then a Columbia student, speaking during the strike.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Now we want to go into the dorms with all of you, with some of you who may not — who may not agree with a lot of what we’ve been saying here, who have questions, who support us, who want to know more. Let’s go to the dorms. Let’s talk quietly, in small groups. We’ll be there, and everyone in Livingston — in Livingston lobby, in Furnald lobby, in Carman lobby. We’ll be there, and we’ll talk about the issues involved, and we’ll talk about where this country is going and where this university is going and what it’s doing in the society and what we would like you to do and what we would — and how we would like to exchange with you our ideas over it. Come join us now.

AMY GOODMAN: That was Juan González, courtesy of the Pacifica Radio Archives. And Juan is here now, courtesy of Democracy Now!, co-host of Democracy Now! Juan, talk about that moment. We’re talking about 56 years ago. Talk about then and what you see as the echoes of today.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Well, Amy, I think the important thing to understand is that the Columbia strike unfolded over several weeks. The first week was the week of the occupation, but because of the brutality of the attacks by the police — as you said, more than 150 people were hospitalized the night of April 30th — it led to a massive strike of the entire university. Over 10,000 students shut the university down for the rest of the semester.

And I think what is really unusual about this process is that here the university moved in very quickly, and also these students were not disrupting classes. We occupied buildings. We did not allow classes to go forward in 1968. But classes were going forward. The students were camped out peacefully on the lawn. So, the disproportionate nature of the response of the university, the quickness with which it responded, without even consulting or listening to the faculty, is really astounding.

And the other aspect of it is that when we were suspended — and there were many of us suspended — before we were suspended, we were allowed to appear before a tribunal to plead our cause. There was at least the rudiments of due process. Here, there is no due process. The university is already, within 24 hours, saying that the students are suspended, even though there is yet no legal proof that any of these students knowingly participated in illegal actions. So, I think that what really strikes me about this response is the total flouting of any kind of democratic process by the current administration compared to what happened in 1968.

And, of course, I think the other aspect of it is we were fighting at the time against the racism of the university toward Harlem and against the Vietnam War. These students are protesting a genocide that is occurring before the eyes of the entire world and that is being funded by U.S. arms. And if anyone has the right to rebel and to stand up against injustice, these students do. And actually, I personally only wish that more students would follow their example across the country and continue to disrupt the process that is occurring right now, to at least allow the people of Palestine to understand that the American people are not united behind this genocide.

AMY GOODMAN: And, Juan, do you have messages for the college presidents, from your experience 56 years ago with the mass arrests of 700 students, which only provoked more protest?

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Well, I have to say that President Shafik, who, as I understand, is a baroness — she was knighted during her time in England — that the baroness has very little time left as president of Columbia University. I don’t see how she survives in office, given the enormous resistance to her of not only the students, but the faculty. And I think that the universities across America have to realize that the young people of this country do not support the constant wars that our — imperial wars that our government is either participating in or funding, and that something has to change.

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“Seder in the Streets to Stop Arming Israel”: 100s Arrested at Jewish-Led Protest Near Schumer’s Home
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
April 24, 2024
https://www.democracynow.org/2024/4/24/ ... transcript

Hundreds of protesters were arrested in Brooklyn on Tuesday when Jewish New Yorkers and allies gathered for what they called a “Seder in the Streets to Stop Arming Israel” on the second night of Passover. The demonstration, held one block away from the home of Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, came just hours before the Senate overwhelmingly approved a $95 billion foreign aid package that includes about $17 billion in arms and security funding to Israel. “At the core of the Passover story is that we cannot be free until all people are free,” Beth Miller, the political director of Jewish Voice for Peace, told Democracy Now! “The Israeli government and the United States government are carrying out a genocide of Palestinians in Gaza, over 34,000 people killed in six months in the name of Jewish safety, in the false name of Jewish freedom.”

Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: As many as 300 protesters were arrested in Brooklyn on Tuesday night, where thousands of mostly Jewish New Yorkers gathered for a “Seder in the Streets” to stop arming Israel, they said, this on the second night of Passover. The demonstration was held at Grand Army Plaza, one block away from the home of Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer. It came just hours before the Senate overwhelmingly approved a $95 billion foreign aid package that includes some $14 billion in arms and security funding to Israel.

A series of speakers addressed the rally, including journalist and author Naomi Klein, Palestinian activist Linda Sarsour and several Jewish students suspended from Columbia University, where students have held a Gaza Solidarity Encampment. These are some of the voices of the demonstrators yesterday speaking at the Seder in the Streets.

BETH MILLER: Tonight’s Seder in the Streets, which will be happening on the second night of Passover, which is a holiday we observe every year that is all about liberation and how our liberations are intertwined with one another, is coming just hours ahead of a likely Senate vote on $14 billion in military funding and weapons to Israel. So we’re here to tell Senator Schumer that this is enough and we need to end U.S. complicity in Israel’s genocide against Palestinians. And at the core of the Passover story is that we cannot be free until all people are free. And right now what we’re seeing is that the Israeli government and the United States government are carrying out a genocide of Palestinians in Gaza, over 34,000 people killed in six months, in the name of Jewish safety, in the false name of Jewish freedom.

PROTESTERS: Let Gaza live! Let Gaza live! Let Gaza live! Let Gaza live!

EVA BORGWARDT: Today the most meaningful way we could possibly celebrate a holiday for Jewish liberation is in the streets protesting this genocide, because our liberation is tied together with Palestinian liberation. And honestly, I am more moved than I have been in months, watching young Jews get arrested alongside Jewish elders, saying, “Not in our name,” as we have been for six months. And the Senate is still about to pass this massive funding package?

PROTESTER: Happy Passover. Free Palestine.

PROTESTERS: Let Gaza live! Let Gaza live! Let Gaza live! Let Gaza live!

You’re all the same! NYPD, KKK, IOF, you’re all the same!

UNA OSATO: And now we are hundreds in the streets. People are taking arrest, saying business as usual not go on. We are here at the doorstep of Senator Chuck Schumer. To the people in Palestine: We love you. We are with you. We are going to stop this U.S. funding, so that you can fight for your own liberation.

POLICE OFFICER: If you do not move, you will be arrested.

AMY GOODMAN: Some of the voices at the “Seder in the Streets to Stop Arming Israel” that was held at Grand Army Plaza on Tuesday on the second night of Passover.

***

Naomi Klein: Jews Must Raise Their Voices for Palestine, Oppose the “False Idol of Zionism”
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow
April 24, 2024

Thousands of Jewish Americans and allies gathered in Brooklyn on Tuesday for a “Seder in the Streets to Stop Arming Israel” on the second night of Passover, held just a block from the home of Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, to protest ongoing U.S. support for the Israeli assault on Gaza. “Too many of our people are worshiping a false idol,” said award-winning author and activist Naomi Klein, one of several speakers at Tuesday’s rally. “They are enraptured by it. They are drunk on it. They are profaned by it. And that false idol is called Zionism.”

Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: Among those who addressed the crowd during the seder was award-winning author and activist Naomi Klein. This is some of what she had to say.

NAOMI KLEIN: My friends, I’ve been thinking about Moses and his rage when he came down from the mount to find the Israelites worshiping a golden calf. The ecofeminist in me has always been uneasy about this story. What kind of god is jealous of animals? What kind of god wants to hoard all the sacredness of the Earth for himself? But there is, of course, a less literal way of understanding this story. It is a lesson about false idols, about the human tendency to worship the profane and shining, to look to the small and material rather than the large and transcendent.

What I want to say to you this evening at this revolutionary and historic Seder in the Streets is that too many of our people are worshiping a false idol once again. They are enraptured by it. They are drunk on it. They are profaned by it. And that false idol is called Zionism.

It is a false idol that takes our most profound biblical stories of justice and emancipation from slavery, the story of Passover itself, and turns them into brutalist weapons of colonial land theft, roadmaps for ethnic cleansing and genocide. It is a false idol that has taken the transcendent idea of the Promised Land, a metaphor for human liberation that has traveled across faiths to every corner of this globe, and dared to turn it into a deed of sale for a militarist ethnostate.

Political Zionism’s version of liberation is itself profane. From the start, it required the mass expulsion of Palestinians from their homes and ancestral lands in the Nakba. From the start, it has been at war with collective dreams of liberation. At a seder, it is worth remembering that this includes the dreams of liberation and self-determination of the Egyptian people. This false idol of Zionism has long equated Israeli safety with Egyptian dictatorship and unfreedom and client state. From the start, it has produced an ugly kind of freedom that saw Palestinian children not as human beings, but as demographic threats, much as the Pharaoh in the Book of Exodus feared the growing population of Israelites and thus ordered the death of their sons. And as we know, Moses was saved from that by being put in a basket and adopted by an Egyptian woman.

Zionism has brought us to our present moment of cataclysm, and it is time that we say clearly it has always been leading us here. It is a false idol that has led far too many of our own people down a deeply immoral path that now has them justifying the shredding of core commandments — “Thou shall not kill,” “Thou shall not steal,” “Thou shall not covet” — the commandments brought down from the mount. It is a false idol that equates Jewish freedom with cluster bombs that kill and maim Palestinian children.

Zionism is a false idol that has betrayed every Jewish value, including the value that we place on questioning a practice embedded in the seder itself with its four questions asked by the youngest child. It also betrays the love that we have as a people for text and for education. Today this false idol dares to justify the bombing of every single university in Gaza, the destruction of countless schools, of archives, of printing presses, the killing of hundreds of academics, scholars, journalists, poets, essayists. This is what Palestinians call scholasticide, the killing of the infrastructure and the means of education.

Meanwhile, in this city, the universities call the NYPD and barricade themselves against the grave threat posed by their own students asking them —

CROWD: Shame!

NAOMI KLEIN: — students embodying the spirit of the seder, asking the most basic question, asking questions like “How can you claim to believe in anything at all, least of all us, while you enable, invest in and collaborate with this genocide?”

The false idol of Zionism has been allowed to grow unchecked for far too long. So tonight we say it ends here. Our Judaism cannot be contained by an ethnostate, for our Judaism is internationalist by its very nature. Our Judaism cannot be protected by the rampaging military of that ethnostate, for all that military does is sow sorrow and reap hatred, including hatred against us as Jews. Our Judaism is not threatened by people raising their voices in solidarity with Palestine across lines of race, ethnicity, physical ability, gender identity and generations. Our Judaism is one of those voices and knows that in this chorus lies both our safety and our collective liberation.

Our Judaism is the Judaism of the Passover Seder, the gathering in ceremony to share food and wine with loved ones and strangers alike. This ritual, light enough to carry on our backs, in need of nothing but one another, even with — we don’t need walls. We need no temple, no rabbi. And there is a role for everyone, including especially the smallest child. The seder is portable, a diaspora technology if ever there was one. It is made to hold our collective grieving, our contemplation, our questioning, our remembering, and our reviving and rekindling of the revolutionary spirit.

So, tonight — so, look around. This here is our Judaism. As waters rise and forests burn and nothing is certain, we pray at the altar of solidarity and mutual aid, no matter the cost. We don’t need or want the false idol of Zionism. We want freedom from the project that commits genocide in our name. We want freedom from the ideology that has no plan for peace, except for deals with the murderous, theocratic petrostates next door, while selling the technologies of robo-assassinations to the world. We seek to liberate Judaism from an ethnostate that wants Jews to be perennially afraid, that wants our children afraid, that wants us to believe that the world is against us so that we go running to its fortress, or at least keep sending the weapons and the donations.

That is a false idol. And it’s not just Netanyahu. It’s the world he made and the world that made him. It’s Zionism. What are we? We, in these streets for months and months, we are the exodus, the exodus from Zionism. So, to the Chuck Schumers of this world, we do not say, “Let our people go.” We say, “We have already gone, and your kids, they are with us now.”

AMY GOODMAN: Award-winning journalist and author Naomi Klein, speaking at what was called the “Seder in the Streets to Stop Arming Israel” on Tuesday at Grand Army Plaza in Brooklyn, a block from Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer’s home. Special thanks to Hana Elias, Eric Halvarson and Ishmael Daro of Democracy Now!

***

Months Ago State Dept. Panel Exposed Israeli Units’ Rights Abuses, But U.S. Arms Keep Flowing
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
April 24, 2024
https://www.democracynow.org/2024/4/24/ ... transcript

Months ago, a State Department panel urged the Biden administration to disqualify multiple Israeli military and police units from receiving U.S. aid over serious human rights abuses, including rape and torture. According to ProPublica, Secretary of State Blinken received the recommendation in December but has still not taken any action. “[Israeli] Prime Minister Netanyahu, Benny Gantz, they have been publicly and fiercely lobbying against any proposed sanctions,” says ProPublica reporter Brett Murphy. “Gantz said he called Blinken personally and they talked about it. They want him to reverse course.”

Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan González.

Months ago, a State Department panel urged the Biden administration to disqualify multiple Israeli military and police units from receiving U.S. aid over serious human rights abuses, including rape and torture. That’s according to an article in ProPublica which reports that Secretary of State Blinken received the recommendation in December but has still not taken any action.

We’re joined now by Brett Murphy, reporter for ProPublica, where his latest pieces are ”Netanyahu Resists U.S. Plan to Cut Off Aid to Israeli Military Unit” and ”Blinken Is Sitting on Staff Recommendations to Sanction Israeli Military Units Linked to Killings or Rapes.”

Brett, welcome back to Democracy Now! So, this latest piece, lay out what is this State Department panel that made this recommendation, and talk about what Blinken has done since.

BRETT MURPHY: Yeah, it’s a very special panel. It’s unique to Israel. Other countries do not have this sort of consideration. And what it’s supposed to do is review allegations, allegations of a gross human rights violation. That could be an extrajudicial killing. That could be a rape. And they look at public reports, and then they see if the Israeli government has held the individual perpetrators accountable. If they haven’t, if they haven’t held them accountable, then they’re supposed to make a recommendation, make a recommendation to either stop giving aid to that specific unit or to continue allowing aid to go to that unit.

This has never happened in the history of Israel. Almost every other country where we give foreign assistance to, they have units who are disqualified from that type of aid, but not Israel. Finally this happened in December for the first time ever. Recommendations went up to Blinken to sanction specific units inside of the Israeli military. But for months now he has not done anything with those recommendations.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Brett, could you talk about one of those units, Netzah Yehuda, the country’s all-male, ultra-Orthodox battalion?

BRETT MURPHY: Yeah. So, Juan, there has been some reporting over the weekend that one of the units that went to Blinken was Netzah Yehuda. This is an ultra-Orthodox, all-male battalion. It had been operating largely in the West Bank for years. It was founded around 1999. And for years it’s been accused of human rights abuses, shooting civilians, beating civilians, so much so that a few years ago it was actually removed by the government of Israel from the West Bank and relocated to the Golan Heights.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And also, could you, for those who are not familiar with the Leahy Amendment, the 1997 law that requires the United States to cut off financial aid to — or, military aid to units that are accused, credibly accused, of human rights violations?

BRETT MURPHY: Sure. So, the Leahy Law was developed specifically to address specific units inside of any foreign government. There are other laws on the books that are much broader, much more general, but they’ve never been implemented in a systematic way, so the Leahy Law wanted to address that. Senator Leahy and others thought if the State Department could identify specific units inside of these governments and then disqualify them from receiving aid, then that would have, you know, more of a salutary effect than they had been seeing with previous laws.

Like I was saying before, most other countries have to apply for aid on a unit-by-unit basis, so they will first ask the State Department if they can use American financing for equipment, arms, training, that sort of thing, and then the State Department will review that unit, see if they’re on the no-fly list, if they’ve been disqualified. But for Israel, Egypt, it’s different. They receive so much aid, so much financing, that the State Department has been largely blind to what specific units are using that aid. That’s why they came up with this forum, this amendment in 2019. This forum was meant to kind of look back and address specifically which units should be disqualified, and then we would give that list over to the governments of Israel and Egypt.

AMY GOODMAN: And finally, just to be clear, Brett, we’ve heard in the last days that Biden is cutting off aid to the ultra-Orthodox unit. Talk about — was there a meeting between Blinken and Benny Gantz? Is this aid being cut off?

BRETT MURPHY: So, he’s been asked — Secretary Blinken has been asked several times, as well as his spokespersons, what’s the status of those cases. And he has so far punted. And we know over the weekend Prime Minister Netanyahu, Benny Gantz, they have been publicly and fiercely lobbying against any proposed sanctions. Benny Gantz said he called Blinken personally and they talked about it. They want him to reverse course.

AMY GOODMAN: Well, I want to thank you so much for being with us, Brett Murphy, reporter for ProPublica, where his latest pieces are ”Netanyahu Resists U.S. Plan to Cut Off Aid to Israeli Military Unit” and ”Blinken Is Sitting on Staff Recommendations to Sanction Israeli Military Units Linked to Killings or Rapes.”

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Bodies Recovered at Mass Graves in Nasser Hospital Bear Signs of Torture, Mutilation & Execution
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
April 25, 2024
https://www.democracynow.org/2024/4/25/ ... transcript

Bergen-Belsen 1945.
George Rodger The LIFE Picture Collection

At least 320 bodies have been discovered buried in a mass grave at the destroyed Nasser Medical Complex in Khan Younis, just weeks after a similar mass grave containing up to 400 bodies was discovered amid the ruins of Al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza City. Some of the bodies, which include children, medical staff and patients, appear to have been executed or buried alive. Meanwhile, Israel continues its bombardment of Gaza as its assault of the beleaguered enclave surpasses 200 days. “Every single body that is being unearthed, you find tens of people rushing for the sake of identifying whether those are their relatives,” says Akram al-Satarri, a journalist based in Gaza. “Some of the people were tied. Some of the people had medical accessories on their hands, like the cannulas. And when they were unearthed from the ground, it was apparent that they were buried alive. Some people were tortured. Some of the bodies were extremely mutilated, which means that those bodies, some of their organs were taken by the Israeli occupation.”

Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: In Gaza, medics and Civil Defense workers are still recovering bodies from mass graves found at the Nasser Medical Complex for the sixth day in a row following Israel’s siege on the hospital. Over 320 bodies have so far been discovered, including women, children, patients and medical staff, according to Al Jazeera. Another mass grave with up to 400 bodies was discovered weeks earlier at Al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza City. Civil Defense officials have said bodies were found stacked together and showed indications of field executions or being buried alive. The United Nations and the European Union have called for an independent probe into the mass graves, and the White House on Wednesday also called for an investigation.

This comes as Israel continues its bombardment of Gaza, with at least 43 people killed over the last 24 hours, according to the Palestinian Health Ministry. At least five of them were killed in the southern city of Rafah, where Israel has conducted near-daily airstrikes as it prepares for an offensive in the city.

AMY GOODMAN: A spokesperson for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s government told Reuters Israel is moving ahead with a ground operation in Rafah, but gave no timeline. An unnamed Israeli defense official said Israel had bought 40,000 tents, each able to hold between 10 and 12 people, to house Palestinians evacuated from Rafah ahead of its assault on the city. Israeli news outlets report Israel will forcibly evacuate civilians to the nearby city of Khan Younis, which has been virtually destroyed by Israeli forces. Over 1.3 million Palestinians are seeking shelter in Rafah, the southernmost city in Gaza.

We go now to Rafah, in Gaza, where we’re joined by Akram al-Satarri, a journalist based in Gaza.

Welcome back to Democracy Now!, Akram. Just moments ago, Palestinian officials held a press conference in Rafah regarding the mass graves at the Nasser Medical Complex. Can you tell us the latest? I know there’s a delay in the broadcast.

AKRAM AL-SATARRI: Good morning, Amy, to you and all the viewers.

I have just come back from Khan Younis area. I was at Nasser Hospital. I spoke to the Civil Defense official who’s now giving this press conference about the situation in Nasser Hospital and about the number of the people who were killed, the way they were killed, and an account of the potential suffering they had been seeing even before they did.

It looks like the mass graves, the three different mass graves, are containing around 700 bodies. Up to this particular moment, around 400 bodies were unearthed and discovered. Around 300 bodies or even more are still in the ground. The bulldozer — one bulldozer, because of the very limited resources, working — is working there for the sake of just digging out the bodies.

Family members are lined up there. Family members are trying and rushing with passion and with great deal of sorrow to identify the bodies of their dears. Some of them managed to identify the bodies. Then you hear the outcry. You hear the people screaming, crying and mourning the death of their dears. But at the very same time, they feel a little bit relief, because they finally found the body of their dears.

I spoke to a mother who’s around 42, 43 years old. She was trying to identify her son. And then she found the body of her son. She was crying. The sister also, her daughter, was crying. And they were calling for the family to come and join them in the burial, because in our culture as Muslims and Arabs, we find a burial as the best fitting homage for the people who are dead.

People are continuously digging out the bodies. People are continuously — and this is very ironic — they’re trying to save the dead. People, when they die, are supposed to be resting in peace. And I was saying that people in Gaza, when they die, they’re neither resting nor in peace. The bodies, those bodies, were collected twice by the Israeli occupation forces. They were taken for some forensic investigation. They were returned to Nasser Hospital. They’re stockpiled in this very big hall, three different halls. And then they were buried. And then, a second time, the Israeli occupation forces came back to Nasser Hospital. They invaded all different departments of the hospital. They targeted the specialized surgery department, the reception and emergency. And they once again unearthed those hundreds of bodies and took them once again. And then they returned them to this mass grave or mass graves. So, the suffering even for the dead people in Gaza is still continuous.

And the heartache for their families is nonstop. Every single body that is being unearthed, you find tens of people rushing for the sake of identifying whether those are their relatives or otherwise. You see also many families looking into these individual graves in the Nasser Hospital area. You see written on the tombstone that “This guy is a tall guy. He has long hair. He’s wearing a gray shirt. And this is all we know.” And then it’s up to the family to try and to find and for people to recall what their dears were wearing the day they were parting from them, what were they wearing the day they were killed. So, a very emotionally draining process.

The numbers are quite shocking. But the account of the loss and the death that led to that eventual mass grave is extremely shocking, where some of the people — like you have just said, some of the people were tied. Some of the people had medical accessories on their hands, like the cannulas. And when they were unearthed from the ground, it was apparent that they were buried alive. Some people were tortured. Some of the bodies were extremely mutilated, which means that those bodies, some of their organs were taken by the Israeli occupation. Some lost their eyes. I could see some bodies with no eyes. I could see some bodies with no liver, with no kidney, some bodies that are — you see them, like the outer skin is just covering the skeleton, and that’s it. So, the account of that experience is quite heart-wrenching.

The families that have been suffering for the sake of just identifying their dears are also broken. They have been crying. But at least they say, “We feel comfortable because we found our dear.” So, it gives you an insight, a glimpse, into the suffering people of Gaza have been living. It gives you a glimpse into the bereavement the women, men, children and girls in Gaza have been experiencing for the last six months also.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: Akram al-Satarri, just for our audience to know, you know, whenever we speak to you, we have — there’s this constant noise around you, and those are drones, of course, flying overhead, as they have been for months now. But if you could respond? You know, the European Union, the United Nations and now also the United States have called for an independent investigation into these mass graves. So, your response to that? And we’re speaking to you in Rafah. If you could also describe what conditions there are on the ground?

AKRAM AL-SATARRI: Well, as to the independent scrutiny or investigation committee that needs to be developed, I’ve been working in journalism for around 16 years now. I have been hearing about the independent committees, commissions, inquiries, fact-finding committees and international reports and tribunals about the situation in Gaza, looking into the particular details of the incidents that were taking place, investigating the death of several people in mass killing incidents, including the war in 2008, the war in 2014 and the war in 2021. I have been hearing a book about Gaza and the war in Gaza from 2014, and I was reading the exact words that I’m going to say now: “Palestinians struggle to dig out the bodies.” So, this is something that happened in 2014. This is something that happened in 2008. This is something that happened in ’21, ’22 and is still happening throughout 2023 and 2024.

The international community has failed to preserve and — to preserve and observe the dictates of the international humanitarian law. The humanity at large is facing a challenge. All the political systems worldwide are asked now and expected to do something tangible for the sake of just saving the Gaza Strip. Rhetoric is no longer needed. Rhetoric is no longer satisfactory. We need them to do something tangible to stop the things that are happening in Gaza.

Some of the things that Gazans are suggesting, the no-fly zone to protect the civilians in Gaza. Some of the things that Gazans are suggesting, that Israel should be held accountable for what they call crimes that were committed against the humanity, against people, against civilians. The international humanitarian law is rich with terms and vocab that are related to the, what they call the civil objects, civil objects that are protected, journalists that are protected, medical teams that are supposed to be protected, medical facilities that are supposed also to be protected. But when you review the shocking numbers about the way that the journalists are being killed, for instance, the medical teams are being killed, for instance, you conclude that the international community is failing so far to do something tangible, rather than the statements, the condemnations, the calls for independent inquiries or commissions to look into the investigation. We need something tangible. And that something tangible has not been achieved so far. And Gazans have been dying constantly because of that.

Something should be done. Something swift should be done. Otherwise, the death would continue. Now in Gaza today, 79 people were killed. And an average number of around 65 to 79 is killed every day. And if nothing is done, this means the international community accepts the killing of Gazans and accepts the justification of Israel to continue that killing. [coughs] Sorry.

And when it comes to the situation in Rafah, in Rafah, around 1.4 to 1.2 million, because of the influx of people from Rafah in the last few days. People are so scared because of the looming ground operation. They understand that the Israeli occupation is going to target them, and they understand that death would be chasing them. So some of them moved from Rafah. Around 150,000 Gazans have already left Rafah and moved to the area in al-Mawasi, a buffer zone between Rafah and Khan Younis, in the hope that they would survive. The ones who are in Rafah and the ones who are in Khan Younis and the ones in Gaza, at the entirety of Gaza, are all IDPs, around 2.1 million IDPs, because of the destruction of the infrastructure, the destruction of the homes, the destruction of the streets, and because of the continuous bombardment that has been taking their life. And those people are living in areas that have no infrastructure. No infrastructure means that they don’t have water supplies that are regular. They don’t have sewage systems. They don’t have food. They don’t have even drinkable water with which they can cook the food. They don’t have houses. They’re living in tents. And today is a very hot day. Today and yesterday were very hot days in this specific season. And now people in the tents are struggling. They are sweating all day. The children that have respiratory — even the adults that have some respiratory disorders are suffering more than any other people, and this suffering is continuous.

And this situation, when it comes to the humanitarian situation in Gaza, is unbearable, unimaginable and unacceptable. When I tell you the situation is unimaginable, because, for me, some parts of Gaza and some part of those camps that I have seen, the suffering of the people is unimaginable. You will see them living just by the minimum, and even there is no minimum. And they have no other choice to continue living and waiting and hoping some solution would be developed or concluded sometime soon. This is the truth about the situation, something I have never seen in my life, let alone someone who’s living thousands of miles away from Gaza.

People are buried in the streets. People are buried on the pavement. People are buried everywhere, in their homes. And some of the bodies, around 10,000 bodies, are in Gaza, are still under the rubble, and they have not been retrieved so far. You walk down the streets, and you smell death everywhere. You go to the hospital, that is supposed to be the temple of protection and humanity, you find the hospital totally devastated by death. You find the patients, who were supposed to be receiving the medical treatments, buried within the hospital. And you smell their decomposed bodies after the bodies were desecrated and unearthed. And wherever you turn your face, you see the children, you see the adults, you see the women and the men, the girls and the boys, suffering from that unjust situation that is still continuous. And no one single international power could stop that or bring an end to that ongoing suffering and misery.

AMY GOODMAN: Akram al-Satarri, we want to thank you so much for being with us. Be safe. Akram is a Gaza-based journalist, speaking to us from Rafah.

***
Amnesty International: Global Breakdown of Int’l Law Amid Flagrant War Crimes in Gaza & Beyond
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
April 25, 2024
https://www.democracynow.org/2024/4/25/ ... transcript

Amnesty International has released its annual report assessing human rights in 155 countries. The report highlights Israel’s assault on Gaza with evidence of war crimes continuing to mount, as well as U.S. failures to denounce rights violations committed by Israel. It also points to Russia’s ongoing aggression against Ukraine, and the rise of authoritarianism and massive rights violations in Sudan, Ethiopia and Myanmar. We speak to Agnès Callamard, the organization’s secretary general, who warns “the international system is on the brink of collapse” and decries the failure of rights mechanisms and Israel’s top ally, the United States, to rein in its “unprecedented” assault on Gaza.

Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: “The world is reaping a harvest of terrifying consequences from escalating conflict and the near breakdown of international law,” Amnesty International said yesterday as it launched its annual report on human rights in 155 countries. The report highlights Israel’s assault on Gaza with evidence of war crimes continuing to mount, as well as U.S. failures to denounce rights violations committed by Israel. It also called out Russia’s ongoing aggression against Ukraine and pointed to the rise of authoritarianism and massive rights violations in Sudan, Ethiopia and Myanmar.

AMY GOODMAN: Amnesty International Secretary General Agnès Callamard said, quote, “Israel’s flagrant disregard for international law is compounded by the failures of its allies to stop the indescribable civilian bloodshed meted out in Gaza. Many of those allies were the very architects of that post-World War II system of law,” end-quote. Well, Agnès Callamard joins us now from London.

Welcome to Democracy Now! We so appreciate you being on with us. If you can start off by talking about the situation in Gaza right now? You just heard in our previous segment the Gaza-based journalist describing the discovery of the hundreds of bodies in a mass grave at the Nasser Medical Complex following Israel’s siege of the hospital. What are you calling for right now?

AGNÈS CALLAMARD: Thank you very much for welcoming me on your program.

You know, I have listened to the journalist, and what can we — what can I add more? Since October 7, we have been documented a plethora of violations committed, first by Hamas and then by the Israeli authorities. But in particular, the Israeli authorities have been — you know, have committed an extraordinary amount of violations of international law, the indiscriminate and targeted bombing of civilians. We know now that there is at least 30,000 of them that have been killed. Seventy percent of the infrastructure of Gaza have been destroyed. I’m talking civilian infrastructure — schools, hospitals, cemeteries, cultural institutions. We know that there has been the highest number of journalists killed in any conflict, the highest number of humanitarian workers killed in any conflict. We know that famine is being used as a weapon of war. We know that collective punishment has been waged against the Palestinian people. And we also know of, you know, clear evidence of extrajudicial killings, as highlighted by the discovery of those mass graves, that are coming on top of all the detentions and use of torture and ill-treatment. So, the scale of the violations committed over the last six months is unprecedented. And I want to insist on that. It is unprecedented. The harm to civilians is unprecedented.

And what is making matters worse is that this is all broadcasted every day in front of our very eyes, and yet nothing — nothing — is being done to prevent that bloodshed. The United States has been using its right of veto at the Security Council to prevent any kind of meaningful intervention. It has shielded Israel from the denunciation that was required. It has protected them. It has pretended for the longest period of time that no violations were committed.

This is why Amnesty International is concluding that the international system is on the brink of collapse right now. International law is not just violated. People who are violating international law are justifying their violations. And that means they are pretending that international law either has no meaning or does not apply to them. But whatever intention they have, the outcome is the emptying out of international law, the emptying out of the Geneva Convention, that was supposed to regulate war, the emptying out of the Genocide Convention, the emptying out of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and the completely uselessness of the Security Council. We have an International Court of Justice that could play a role, and yet its rulings are being ignored. So, all in all, coming on the heels of Russia’s aggression of Ukraine, the only conclusion that we can reach is that the international system is collapsing and that the world is being plunged back to where we were promised will happen again.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: Dr. Agnès Callamard, we want to go to U.S. national security adviser Jake Sullivan, who on Wednesday called for an investigation into the mass graves at Nasser Hospital.

JAKE SULLIVAN: We have been in touch at multiple levels with the Israeli government. We want answers. We want to understand exactly what happened. You have seen some public commentary from the IDF on that, but we want to know the specifics of what the circumstances of this were. And we want to see this thoroughly and transparently investigated, so that the whole world can have a comprehensive answer, and we, the United States, can, as well.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: So, that’s Jake Sullivan speaking Wednesday. If you could respond to that, and what kind of investigation you believe needs to happen? And who should conduct this investigation?

AGNÈS CALLAMARD: Well, first and foremost, Amnesty International and others have been calling for those investigations for a very long time. The journalist that was speaking before me pointed out that those investigations have been called on since 2014, and nothing has ever happened. You cannot rely on the Israeli authorities to deliver any kind of meaningful investigation.

Right now no one can enter Gaza. No one can provide the expertise required for this investigation. We have mass graves. People are looking — and that’s absolutely humane — are looking for their loved ones, which means that the crime scene itself is going to be meaningless within a few hours or a few days. There are absolutely nobody there who can protect the crime scene, who can provide the necessary expertise so that at least we have a sense of how people died, when did they die, and the kind of violations that have been perpetrated against them. So, yes, we want an investigation, but I don’t think this is a genuine demand for an investigation. People know that mass graves are extremely fragile. And right now there are probably no crime scene left to be investigated effectively.

But we don’t need that investigation to conclude that Israel has been committing war crimes after war crimes after war crimes. We have plenty of evidence since October 7 of many of those violations. We at Amnesty International have documented, with good evidence, indiscriminate shelling of civilians. We know from people on the ground that almost all civilians’ infrastructures have been destroyed. And this cannot be justified just by the notion of military objective, of military necessity. We have the evidence required to conclude that Israel has, you know, repeatedly, repeatedly, to an extent unprecedented, unprecedented extent, violated international law.

It is now time for the United States, more than time — it’s too late, in fact — for the United States to take a stand, to denounce Israel’s violations, to stop arming Israel — because that’s what they are still doing — and to do everything in their power to put an end to this bloodshed, to the killings of the Palestinians that we are all witnessing, that we are all made to witness.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk, Dr. Callamard, about the U.S. disconnect of the Biden administration, on the one hand calling vaguely for a ceasefire and saying, from Blinken to President Biden, their hearts are broken when it comes to Palestinian casualties, but on the other hand continuing to supply the weapons?

AGNÈS CALLAMARD: It’s not a disconnect. I think it’s very well organized and very well scripted. You know, they are making some sound that they feel they have to make, but that has absolutely no impact on their actions. We are now middle of April. A month ago, finally, the United States agreed to a ceasefire, adding, though, that it was nonbinding. So, you know, that also shows that their heart was not really into the ceasefire.

AMY GOODMAN: The last one, the U.S. abstained.

AGNÈS CALLAMARD: Yes, and insisting that the ceasefire was actually not — that the resolution was nonbinding. They have had plenty of opportunities since October 7 to demand a ceasefire, but they use their right of veto to stop it — and let me add, and as well as the release of all hostages. So, you know, it’s not a disconnect. I think it’s a very well-planned, very well-scripted commitment to support Israel all the way, including to a possible genocide, because let’s recall that the International Court of Justice has concluded that the risks of genocide were extremely high. And we have every evidence in front of us of those risks. Indeed, some eminent legal scholars have concluded that genocide was already occurring.

So the United States is providing support to a country that is violating international law repeatedly, that is justifying those violations in the name of going after Hamas, without due respect for the proportionality and the discrimination that should accompany their actions. By so doing, the United States is making itself complicit to some of the worst possible crimes being committed right now.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: And, Dr. Agnès Callamard, if you could put this in the wider context of what your report finds? You’ve said that the world is facing the demise of the 1948 international order created after the Second World War —

AGNÈS CALLAMARD: Yeah.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: — amid both the conflict in Gaza and in Ukraine. If you could elaborate on your conclusions?

AGNÈS CALLAMARD: Sure. So, I’ve already highlighted what’s happening in Gaza and how Israel is violating international law and is justifying those violations. This is coming hot on the heels of Russia’s aggression in Ukraine, itself a violation of the U.N. Charter. Russia, too, is justifying its violation of international law. It’s justifying its violation of the U.N. Charter in the name of some kind of vision of its own security. Russia, too, has been justifying its repeated violations of international Geneva Convention through its bombardment of Ukrainians, through the forced transfer of populations. So, over the last 14 — 24 months, we have seen some of the main superpowers in this world claiming that the international legal system that was established after World War II does not apply to them. We have seen Russia doing that. We have seen Israel doing that. And we have seen the United States doing that by proxy through its support to Israel.

Those institutions that were established after World War II, including the Security Council and, later on, the International Criminal Court, the International Court of Justice, these are the backbone of preventing the very worst happening to the world. And those institutions have been rendered, you know, useless, really. The Security Council cannot do anything for peace and security because of the abuse of the veto power. The International Court of Justice is delivering very strong rulings that everyone is ignoring. The International Criminal Court is delivering warrants, including against President Putin, that most people are ignoring. So, those institutions, that are supposed to protect us all, are not protecting us anymore.

And the international legal framework, the international normative framework, is being progressively emptied out through those actions and through the justification of those violations. When Israel is saying, “International law does not apply to us because we have a well-founded military objective and military necessity,” they are pretending that this military necessity takes precedence over everything. That is not the case. That is not the case. When Russia is saying, “International U.N. Charter does not apply to us because of whatever NATO may be doing,” they are also emptying out the U.N. Charter. That is not the purpose of the U.N. Charter. That is not there to be violated by Russia in that way.

So, the entire legal normative framework right now is at risk of completely collapsing. And what do we have instead? Nothing. We have the power of the arms, the weapons. And, you know, we are basically going back to our pre-1940 situation. We are back to where we were supposed not to ever, ever again go back to.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: And if you could also talk about, you know, a number of places that the report highlights that receive very little media attention, Myanmar and Sudan? If you could talk about the massive rights violations going on there?

AGNÈS CALLAMARD: Yes, absolutely. And that, too, I should have mentioned. These are the so-called forgotten crises. They are characterized by massive violations by parties to that conflict. Sudan, in particular, has seen thousands of people dead over the last 12 months, the largest number of people, refugees, abroad in a very short period of time, the massive use of sexual violence, ethnic violence. And finally, when the Security Council took action — it took them almost a year — their resolution has been completely ignored. So, the suffering in Sudan is falling off the international agenda, and yet it is extremely, extremely heartbreaking.

In Myanmar, there, the military government has been protected by China. We finally saw the Security Council a year and a half ago taking a resolution, that was quite timid but a first step. But, meanwhile, the militaries have been armed by China. They have continued their indiscriminate or even targeted attacks on civilians throughout the territory. Hundreds of people have been arrested, tortured. Even political prisoners have been condemned to death and sentenced to death and killed. That’s the situation in Myanmar.

I’m not mentioning the Democratic Republic of Congo, that has completely fallen the agenda for the last 20, 30 years, and yet it is probably the longest-ever crisis, again, where no one is taking action or the kind of action that is being required.

So, the forgotten crises around the world are multiplying. They are increasing, in fact. According to the experts, we are witnessing an increase in the number of armed conflicts around the world — a reflection of a very unstable international system, a reflection of the conflict between the three superpowers vying for hegemony — the United States, Russia and China. And the multiplication of those conflicts by proxy, I will say, between them, is costed in human lives, in hundreds and thousands, millions of human lives around the world.

AMY GOODMAN: Finally, Agnès Callamard, if you can talk about the alarm that you’re sounding in this report on artificial intelligence and its role in furthering racism, discrimination, division during public elections? You note the dominance of Big Tech risks a “supercharging” of human rights violations. Talk about what you see as the dangers.

AGNÈS CALLAMARD: Absolutely. So, we know that over the last 12 months we have seen generative artificial intelligence coming into our almost daily reality. It is a technology that no one really fully understands, certainly not politicians and policymakers. It is one that is completely unregulated as of now. And if what has happened with artificial intelligence, nongenerative one, is to be the benchmark by which to assess what is going to happen in the future, then we need to be very worried.

Over the last few years, Amnesty International has been monitoring how artificial intelligence, you know, through, for instance, platforms, social media platforms, in facial recognitions, through the spywares, all of those technologies have had a disastrous impact on human rights. Over the last 12 months in Facebook, for instance, platforms have been used to launch and to spread ethnic violence in Ethiopia. In Serbia, we have documented that semiautomated algorithms have been used, particularly in the context of the provision of public social assistance, in ways that has discriminated against Roma people and people with disability.

Spywares, that were denounced, that have been denounced since 2020, 2021, with the Pegasus Project, well, guess what: In 2023, we found more evidence of Pegasus being used in many countries around the world, including India, where we’re going to have elections coming up. So, the control of the spyware is not happening. In addition to Pegasus, that continue to be used around the world, we have monitored this year the use of the Predator Files, which is EU, European-based. And that, too, has been used and sold around the world, including against journalists, activists, human rights defenders.

So, abusive facial recognition, abusive mass surveillance, abusive use of spyware, all of those things are extremely dangerous for human rights, including in a context where there is a multiplication of armed conflict. And they should be the object of moratorium. We are calling, as well, on those Big Tech companies, whose business model is feeding the multiplication of data, of certain kind of data — we are calling on them, as well, A, to be much better regulated than they are now, but also to take action to regulate their own content.

But it’s the Wild West. It’s the Wild West in a context of the collapse of the international system. This is why we are sounding the alarm. I mean, you know, as of today, we have the international system on the brink of collapse. We have an industrial revolution, a revolution of information technology, that no one is regulating effectively and that has the potential to run, you know, a major disaster for societies. It is more than time — more than time — to wake up to the reality that we are confronting, if we want to deliver to our children and grandchildren a safer planet. I haven’t even mentioned the climate crisis in the midst of it all. So, I’m sorry if I’m being very apocalyptic here, but I think people need to wake up to that, to the reality that we are really, really facing an incredibly serious, dangerous situation for all of us.

AMY GOODMAN: Agnès Callamard, we want to thank you so much for being with us, Amnesty International secretary general, speaking to us from London.

***

Hundreds Arrested: Students Across U.S. Protest for Palestine as Campus Crackdown Intensifies
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
April 25, 2024
https://www.democracynow.org/2024/4/25/ ... transcript

Student protests calling for university divestment from Israel and the U.S. arms industry have rocked campuses from coast to coast. The nonviolent protests, which have been characterized as “antisemitic” for their criticism of Israel, have been met with an intensifying police crackdown as university administrators threaten academic discipline and arrests. On Wednesday, local and state troopers violently arrested dozens at the University of Texas at Austin. Meanwhile, Republican House Speaker Mike Johnson visited Columbia University in New York City, the site of a high-profile student encampment and one of the first to be met with police action, where he called on university president Minouche Shafik to resign. We hear from two Jewish students involved in protests at their schools. Joshua Sklar, a graduate student at the University of Texas at Austin and an organizer with Jewish Voice of Peace Austin, says concern over campus antisemitism is insincere, and that, in fact, “The people who are being targeted are Muslim students, Arab students, and especially Palestinian students.” Sklar and Sarah King, a member of Columbia University Apartheid Divest who was arrested at the campus’s Gaza Solidarity Encampment, also point out that a large percentage of protesters are Jewish anti-Zionists concerned about their safety from state repression. “The threat is really coming from Columbia University, which has set the police on hundreds of its students who are entrusted to its care,” says King.

Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org. I’m Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: Protests against Israel’s assault on Gaza have rocked campuses from coast to coast over the past week amid an intensifying police crackdown. At the University of Texas in Austin, school officials called in local and state police, including some on horseback, who violently broke up a student encampment on campus. At least 50 people were arrested, including at least one journalist. Some faculty at UT Austin are going on strike today to protest the police crackdown.

Meanwhile, the Gaza Solidarity Encampment at Columbia University continues a week after over a hundred students were arrested in a failed attempt by the university administration to clear the demonstration. University President Minouche Shafik had said on Tuesday — had set on Tuesday a midnight deadline to reach an agreement on clearing an encampment, but the school extended negotiations for another 48 hours. On a visit to campus Wednesday, House Speaker Mike Johnson called on Shafik to resign.

SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON: I am here today joining my colleagues in calling on President Shafik to resign if she cannot immediately bring order to this chaos. As speaker of the House, I am committing today that the Congress will not be silent as Jewish students are expected to run for their lives and stay home from their classes, hiding in fear.

AMY GOODMAN: For more, we’re joined in New York by Sarah King, member of Columbia University Apartheid Divest. She is Jewish, one of the students arrested at the encampment last week who’s now suspended. We’re also joined by Joshua Sklar, a graduate student at University of Texas Austin, a member of Jewish Voice for Peace Austin, who was at Wednesday’s protest.

We welcome you both to Democracy Now! Josh, there were more than 50 arrests at UT Austin. If you can respond to the House speaker, who’s saying that these encampments around the country are antisemitic and pro-Hamas?

JOSHUA SKLAR: It’s absolutely ridiculous. I was there with a contingent of Jewish students, and we were received very warmly. There were even Jewish Zionists there, and they were not harassed at all. In fact, I would say that they probably felt safer than the majority of protesters.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: Sarah King, if you could describe what’s happening now at Columbia University and your own position? You were suspended?

SARAH KING: Yes, I was one of the over 100 students who was arrested as part of a peaceful protest in the Gaza Solidarity Encampment, and I’m one of the student who’s been suspended, as well, so I’m currently not allowed to be on campus. And I have to say it’s — the camp itself is very beautiful. It’s been a real place of interfaith celebration and solidarity, in support of the people of Gaza, who are now at over 200 days of genocide. But, you know, the threat is really coming from Columbia University, which has sent the police on hundreds of its students who are entrusted to its care.

AMY GOODMAN: And can you talk, Sarah, about what’s happened, how you got suspended and your treatment? I’ve been talking to a number of Columbia and Barnard students who said that some of them were given 15 minutes to get out of their dorm, and your meal card canceled, as you’re banned from campus, as well.

SARAH KING: Yeah, that’s exactly right. I’m one of the lucky ones, because I live off campus. But many students live in Columbia housing, and so they were evicted from their homes or locked out from their homes, probably illegally in many cases. We’re looking into it. And they lost access to their normal food. I had an undergraduate who is low-income and was staying with me, because she was evicted with no notice and lost access to her meal plan.

And it’s really very concerning the way Columbia uses the threat of — initially it was just — “just,” quote-unquote — the threat of housing, the threat of loss of food to try to — you know, as a cudgel to get students into the correct political line that is best for its pocketbook, its investment portfolio. And now they’re threatening to set the National Guard on us, risking another Jackson State, another Kent State, where students have been killed because the National Guard were set on students. And they’re willing to risk the threat of violence at their hands because we’re not, you know, consistent with what’s best for their board of trustees or for their portfolios.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: And, Sarah, what about your response to Mike Johnson being invited to speak at Columbia University on campus yesterday?

SARAH KING: Yeah. I mean, first, I think it’s shameful that he was allowed there. Like, I myself am not allowed on campus. I’m, you know, one of many talented and promising students with bright futures who have been banned from campus, but Mike Johnson, who is an open racist and white supremacist, along with people like Gavin McInnes, the head of the Proud Boys, they were welcomed on campus yesterday.

And to me, that really tells the story of what’s at stake here, which is that, you know, the students fighting for Palestinian liberation are part of an interracial coalition — so many Jewish students, Muslim students, Black, Brown, Arab students — working together for the cause of freedom, on one side, and then, on the other side, you have political opportunists, like the House speaker, who, you know, will take any excuse they can get to come after that kind of interfaith, multigenerational coalition fighting for freedom. And right now it happens to be under the guise of something like antisemitism. But, you know, there’s no substance to it at all. And I think anybody who came to campus and saw, the worst prosecution that the Jewish students on campus are facing is from Columbia University. We were disproportionately banned by Columbia because so many of us are part of the Gaza Solidarity Encampment trying to prevent a genocide in our name.

AMY GOODMAN: And, Joshua Sklar, wrote a piece in The Austin Chronicle. “We need a ceasefire now,” it was called, the subtitle, “Anti-Palestinian violence is not 'on the other side of the globe.' It’s here in Austin, too.” If you can talk about that and how protesters were treated yesterday? You had riot police on horseback?

JOSHUA SKLAR: Yeah. I think that there’s been this narrative that there’s been rampant antisemitism. And this simply is not the case. The people who are being targeted are Muslim students, Arab students, and especially Palestinian students. Police came in on horseback, and they attacked protesters. I heard from other students that during an earlier part of the protest, they were clearly targeting Brown people and women. I wasn’t there personally, but this is what I heard.

AMY GOODMAN: Let me ask Sarah King a final question. We have 10 seconds. And that is, 48-hour extension goes ’til tonight. What are the plans? Ten seconds, Sarah.

SARAH KING: You know, I think most of the people at the encampment have already agreed to risk arrest, and they won’t move unless moved by force or until Columbia concedes to our demands, which are for divestment, amnesty and financial transparency.

AMY GOODMAN: We want to thank you both for being with us, Sarah King, Columbia University Apartheid Divest, and Joshua Sklar at UT Austin. I’m Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh.

[admin]

Gaza Freedom Flotilla: Activists Blocked from Sailing to Gaza But Vow to Keep Trying to Break Siege
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
APRIL 29, 2024

Transcript

Hundreds of activists aboard the Gaza Freedom Flotilla were blocked in Turkey on Saturday as they attempted to set sail for the besieged Palestinian territory with 5,500 tons of aid. Organizers say Guinea-Bissau withdrew its flagged ships under pressure from Israel and the United States. The Gaza Freedom Flotilla brings together a “cross-section of humanity” in hundreds of community leaders from all walks of life to raise awareness of Israel’s blockade of Gaza and rally support for its end. “We are determined to stop this by direct action” where international governments “have sadly failed,” says one of the organizers of the Freedom Flotilla, the Palestinian American human rights attorney Huwaida Arraf. “This is not the end. We are pursuing this legally and politically,” she says about this latest “minor setback.” Arraf was part of the previous iteration of the 2010 Gaza Freedom Flotilla, in which 10 participants were killed in an attack from the Israeli Navy when it raided the ships in international waters.


Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: As the official death toll in Gaza nears 35,000, ceasefire talks are continuing this week with Hamas officials in Cairo, Egypt, and U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken in Saudi Arabia before he heads to Jordan and Israel. Meanwhile, Israel’s military’s chief of staff has approved the continuation of war, and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has refused to call off the expected ground invasion of Rafah.

This comes as the International Criminal Court could reportedly issue arrest warrants for senior Israeli officials, including Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, over the war on Gaza and for Israel’s blocking of humanitarian aid. Israel has also targeted humanitarian workers in deadly attacks. Hundreds of aid workers have been killed by Israel since October 7th, including seven members of the international organization World Central Kitchen, which is resuming food distribution in Gaza today, nearly four weeks after its convoy came under attack.

Amidst the mounting humanitarian disaster in Gaza, hundreds of activists aboard the Freedom Flotilla were blocked in Turkey Saturday as they attempted to set sail for the besieged Palestinian territory. Organizers say Guinea-Bissau withdrew its flagged ships under pressure from Israel, but vowed to overcome this latest challenge.

A group of U.N. experts called for safe passage of the vessels, writing, quote, “The Flotilla is a material manifestation of international support for the ongoing Palestinian struggle for freedom and self-determination, and the internationally recognized right to receive humanitarian aid without interference or hindrance. Support for the Palestinian people’s human rights is acute under the current conditions of genocide, domicide, war crimes, and crimes against humanity,” they said.

For more, we’re joined in Istanbul by Huwaida Arraf, Palestinian American human rights attorney, organizer with the Gaza Freedom Flotilla. She was also part of the 2010 Gaza Freedom Flotilla, which Israel attacked, killing 10 activists on the Mavi Marmara.

Welcome to Democracy Now! again, Huwaida. If you can talk about what this Freedom Flotilla is and the obstacles it has faced leaving Turkey?

HUWAIDA ARRAF: Thank you. It’s good to be with you, Amy.

The Freedom Flotilla is a continuation of the effort of the Freedom Flotilla Coalition to confront and challenge and, indeed, break Israel’s unlawful siege on Gaza. It has been in place since 2007. It is a form of collective punishment, which is not only unlawful, it is a war crime, and yet our governments have not been doing anything about it. And, in fact, the very fact that for decades our governments have been allowing Israel impunity is what has brought us to this point where Israel for seven months can commit live-streamed genocide and the world doesn’t — the “world” meaning our governments; of course, people are mobilizing, but we’re not stopping it, because Israel is so used to this impunity.

We have come together, the Freedom Flotilla Coalition, and announced that we are going to sail an emergency flotilla in light of the dire situation in Gaza, which includes mass starvation and now famine that has set in — again, war crimes, but our governments aren’t doing anything about it. What do they do? Pay lip service to Palestinian human rights, airdrop food or talk about a maritime corridor which leaves Israel in control of what, if any, aid at all gets to a people trying to survive a genocide. It’s absolutely obnoxious. And one of the things that the U.N. special rapporteurs, that you mentioned, in their statement said, that our Freedom Flotilla is legitimately challenging Israel’s control over the entry of aid, which no government is doing. And that’s what needs to be done. How can we be in the state where a country that has been found to be plausibly committing a genocide by the World Court is allowed to control what, if any, aid gets to a people trying to survive a genocide? It is unconscionable.

And so we have come together. We are now, and have been, in Istanbul, Turkey, Türkiye. We have ships ready to go. We have one cargo ship loaded with over 5,000 tons of humanitarian aid, largely food, clean water, medicines, baby formula, nutrition for children, diapers. That was all ready to go. Hundreds of activists from 40 countries were here, knowing that Israel has killed activists before in such a mission, and yet still willing to risk it to do what no government has done. And yet, instead of our governments supporting our efforts, they have conspired to actually block us.

And so, what happened on Friday is we received a surprise communiqué from the Guinea-Bissau International Ship Registry saying that they have withdrawn their flag from two of our ships — the cargo ship and the main passenger vessel. Now, we cannot sail without a flag. It was clear to us that the withdrawal of this flag was under pressure, likely from the United States and Israel, because the way that they communicated to us was highly unusual, if not unprecedented. In their communication to us, they specifically referenced our trip to Gaza, and they had demanded from us a number of things, which were impossible to meet in the two-hour timeframe that they gave us, which some of those things included a complete manifesto of our cargo, all of the ports we were going to sail in, a letter from the receiving port where we were going to arrive saying that our arrival and carry of humanitarian aid is welcome. They gave us a two-hour window. This is never done. It’s like when you go to register your car at the DMV, they don’t ask you everywhere you’re going and who is going to be in your car. I don’t know of a situation where this has been done before. And yet, because we did not meet these and were not able to submit all of this information within a two-hour window, they informed us that our flag has been withdrawn. This is not the end.

AMY GOODMAN: What made you believe that Israel put —

HUWAIDA ARRAF: We are pursuing this legally and politically —

AMY GOODMAN: What made you believe that Israel had put pressure on Guinea-Bissau to remove its flags?

HUWAIDA ARRAF: Again, because the demands that they made of us specifically referencing our planned trip to confront Israel’s siege and our intent to arrive in Gaza, and giving us a two-hour window to submit all of this documentation about our journey, and knowing that Israel has done this before. It has tried all kinds of methods in order to sabotage our missions. It has sabotaged our boats before. It has attempted to get various — and succeeded, in getting various countries to block us from leaving port. And it was being reported that the United States specifically was putting pressure on Türkiye, the government here, to block us from leaving. But we were sure we were going to be able to leave from Türkiye, because the support here is so great.

So, Israel has tried all of these efforts. It actually boasts about these efforts. But if Israel thinks that this is the end of our effort to break the unlawful siege of Gaza, they are sadly mistaken. A lot of the activists who were here are fired up. They are determined. They are going back home at this point, until we can reflag our ships, which will hopefully be in the coming weeks, and coming back with even more people and more determination. So this is a minor setback, but it’s certainly not the end. And we will not —

AMY GOODMAN: Huwaida Arraf —

HUWAIDA ARRAF: We will not stop in our efforts —

AMY GOODMAN: Huwaida —

HUWAIDA ARRAF: — to break the siege —

AMY GOODMAN: If you can tell us —

HUWAIDA ARRAF: — and get to the people of Gaza.

AMY GOODMAN: — who the activists are, the doctors, the nurses, the lawyers, who are on board this ship?

HUWAIDA ARRAF: I would love to. They are amazing people from all over the world, who have left their families, who have left their jobs, who have left the comforts of their own home to undertake a mission where we could not guarantee their safety. So, we had doctors coming from as far as New Zealand. We’ve had activists from South Africa. We had truck drivers from Ireland. We have mental health and social workers from the United States, students, professors, retired U.S. military, retired U.S. active combat, former FBI agents. We had parliamentarians, the former mayor of Barcelona, European parliamentarians, Algerian and Jordanian parliamentarians — really, a cross-section of humanity that is sick and tired of our governments allowing the ongoing persecution and now genocide of the Palestinian people.

And we are determined to stop this by direct action, which is — of course, goes along with all of the other efforts that have been taking place all around the world. And we also want to send our respect, admiration and solidarity with the student movement across the United States and now spreading across the world. This is what’s needed. We are going to bring about the change our governments have sadly failed. They only pay lip service to democracy, freedom and human rights.

AMY GOODMAN: Among the high-profile activists —

HUWAIDA ARRAF: The people are going to force this to happen.

AMY GOODMAN: — that are part of the Freedom Flotilla is Nkosi “Mandla” Mandela, South African member of Parliament and the grandson of Nelson Mandela. He spoke to Al Jazeera last week.

NKOSI ZWELIVELILE ”MANDLA” MANDELA: I am a living example of the efforts of the International Solidarity Movement. I am free. South Africa is free. We were able to defeat apartheid South Africa because of the support that we had from the international community. And therefore we want to thank them for taking this stand and for ensuring that they will not be complicit, they will no longer be silent, they will be the voice for the Palestinians.

AMY GOODMAN: Now, in the summer of 2010, the Israeli military attacked a Gaza Freedom Flotilla, killing 10 people, including an American citizen. It was the Mavi Marmara that they attacked, the ship. The Vice President Joe Biden defended the raid in an interview on PBS shortly afterward.

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: You can argue whether Israel should have dropped people onto that ship or not and the rest, but the truth of the matter is, Israel has a right to know. They’re at war with Hamas, has a right to know whether or not arms are being smuggled in. And up to now, Charlie, what’s happened? They’ve said, “Here we go. You’re in the Mediterranean. This ship, if you divert — divert slightly north, you can unload it, and we’ll get the stuff into Gaza.” So, what’s the big deal here? What’s the big deal of insisting it go straight to Gaza?

AMY GOODMAN: [Vice] President Joe Biden in 2010. Huwaida Arraf, this shows the stakes. Ten people were killed. Yet you’re willing to go on this ship to try to challenge the Gaza blockade. As we wrap up, you have 30 seconds. Talk about that risk.

HUWAIDA ARRAF: Yeah. First of all, I need to say that Joe Biden is absolutely mistaken. Israel has no right — had no right to intercept and attack our ships, because it has no right to place the Palestinian people under collective punishment. Again, it is a war crime, and a U.N. panel, an independent investigation, found the very same thing.

Amy, it’s a sad thing that people — it has to be a life-or-death situation to deliver food to people who are being deliberately starved. But that is what we have here, because our governments have continued to allow Israel to do this. I left my two kids at home, and I promised them that I would come back. I know they need their mother. And I hoped to be able to fulfill my promise to come back, but I didn’t know. I don’t know. But what I do know is that I can’t leave to them a world where this can happen, where people can be slaughtered for months on end, oppressed for years, and the world does nothing. So, my action here, and a lot of the activists that have joined us, and the many, many more who want to join us now, do it with the same conviction that we have to act to change the world that we went to live in and that we want to pass on to generations to come, and we are willing to risk our lives to do that.

AMY GOODMAN: Huwaida Arraf, Palestinian American human rights attorney, one of the organizers of the Gaza Freedom Flotilla, speaking to us from Istanbul, Turkey.

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Rabbi Alissa Wise & Israeli-Born Novelist Ayelet Waldman Arrested Trying to Bring Food to Gaza
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
APRIL 29, 2024

Transcript

Israeli police arrested seven rabbis and Israeli activists Friday at the Gaza border during an action that accused Israel of using starvation as a weapon of war against Palestinians. The delegation of Rabbis for Ceasefire carried bags of food to the Erez crossing between Israel and northern Gaza amid reports that famine is imminent for more than 1 million Palestinians in Gaza. “It is incredibly important that those of us who have privilege use that privilege to call attention to this ongoing catastrophe,” says Ayelet Waldman, one of the seven people arrested Friday. Waldman emphasizes that her “mildly uncomfortable” arrest pales in comparison to the violence and repression encountered daily by Palestinian detainees. “Right now what matters is stopping the starvation and murder of millions of people in Gaza,” she says. The action was planned to mark the tradition of Passover, which celebrates the Jewish exodus from slavery in biblical Egypt. “What does it mean to sit around a table and celebrate freedom when in our names a forced starvation and a mass murder is taking place?” asks our other guest, Rabbi Alissa Wise, a founder and organizer with Rabbis for Ceasefire and the former co-executive director of Jewish Voice for Peace.

Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman.

Israeli police arrested seven rabbis and Israeli activists Friday at the Gaza border during an action that accused Israel of using starvation as a weapon of war against Palestinians. The delegation of Rabbis for Ceasefire carried bags of food to the Erez crossing between Israel and northern Gaza amidst reports that famine is imminent for more than a million Palestinians in Gaza. Among those who were joining the protest was Rabbi Avi Dabush, who is a survivor of the October 7th Hamas attack on Kibbutz Nirim.

RABBI AVI DABUSH: I’m really proud of it, you know, being here in the name of Jewish values, being here in the name of Jewish discourse in the Torah and talking about human rights for all people here. Of course, I can’t forget the Israelis. I was in Kibbutz Nirim on October 7th and can’t forget the hostages. But, then again, I can’t forget also our people, you know, human beings in Gaza, that are starving, got killed by thousands and have devastating wounds.

AMY GOODMAN: For more, we’re joined by Rabbi Alissa Wise. She’s now in Philadelphia after her release and return to the United States, founder and organizer with Rabbis for Ceasefire, former co-executive director of Jewish Voice for Peace, where she was also the founding co-chair of JVP’s Rabbinical Council. She’s now back in Philadelphia. And joining us from Tel Aviv is Ayelet Waldman, the Israeli American novelist and writer, who was arrested alongside Rabbi Wise and six others. Her husband, Michael Chabon, is also the noted novelist, the Pulitzer Prize winner, who expressed deep concern about Ayelet’s status on Instagram, writing, “She was there in the company of a group of American rabbis, #rabbis4ceasefire, to show the world, the people of Gaza, and their fellow Jews in Israel and around the world that Judaism teaches: justice, lovingkindness, peace, mercy, liberation,” Chabon wrote.

We welcome you both to Democracy Now! Why don’t we start with Ayelet Waldman, the noted Israeli American author, novelist, in Tel Aviv right now? Ayelet, why did you go to the Erez crossing? Explain what it is. And what happened?

AYELET WALDMAN: The Erez crossing is the crossing in — before the latest calamity, where you could cross in and out of Gaza, of course, very restricted. Now it is something else entirely. We approached — I want to be very clear: We approached the Erez crossing as close as we could get, but obviously it’s blocked off.

Why I went? I think it is incredibly important that those of us who have privilege use that privilege to call attention to this ongoing catastrophe. So, I want to be very clear. My husband was worried about me. It’s sweet. I had an uncomfortable nine-and-a-half hours. I had a mildly unpleasant nine-and-a-half hours. When a Palestinian here is arrested and goes into one of the many military prisons, their experience is horrible. They can be held without charges. There are children who are held without charges. When an Israeli Jewish activist — they have been arrested over and over again. They put their bodies on the line. They put their reputations on the line in terms of their community. What we experienced was very minor. But I think — I can only speak for myself, to say that it felt critical to me to use whatever small platform I have to draw attention to this crisis and to say that as a human being, and as a human being born in this country, I have to use my voice to say that this kind of horrific violence, this starving of children, this mass bombing, is completely unacceptable. It is not just unjust. It’s horrific.

And I also — I don’t deny that what happened on October 7th was an atrocity. It broke my heart. I don’t deny that what’s being experienced by the Israeli hostages now in Gaza is horrible, truly horrible. And my heart breaks for the families of the hostages. But we are seeing right now the mass starvation of an entire people. We are seeing an area where millions lived being reduced to dust. And people of good conscience simply cannot stand by and ignore or, you know, cluck our teeth and say, you know, “It’s really a shame, but Hamas, they’re so terrible.” Yeah, they’re terrible. But it doesn’t matter. And right now what matters is stopping the starvation and the murder of millions of people in Gaza.

AMY GOODMAN: I want to bring Rabbi Alissa Wise into this conversation. You’ve just left the Erez border crossing, and you’re now in Philadelphia. You’re founder of Rabbis for Ceasefire. Talk about why you went there. Israel has said they were opening that border to get aid in.

RABBI ALISSA WISE: Yeah. So, we came during the holiday of Passover, which is actually ending today and tomorrow. Passover is known as Z’man Cheiruteinu, the season of our freedom. And if that is going to be anything, it must mean that we work for the freedom of all people. It doesn’t work that one people is free and another is captive. And Israel has — as your other guests have highlighted, is enacting a siege on the people of Gaza where now people are on the verge of death through a policy of forced starvation, that is in the wake of decades of an Israeli policy of forced displacement, occupation, apartheid and Nakba, Catastrophe, that began in 1948.

So, for us, as rabbis, when we came to think about what are we going to do this Pesach, this Passover, when we know that so many Jews are struggling with what does it mean to sit around a table and celebrate freedom when in our names a forced starvation and a mass murder is taking place, and it felt critical to us that we do literally whatever we possibly could to support the people of Gaza. So we came to the Erez crossing. And as we marched towards it, we chanted the words that begin the Magid section of the Passover Seder, which is the time in the Passover Seder where we tell the story of our people’s liberation. And it begins with, ”Kol dichfin yeitei v’yeichol,” “Let all who are hungry come and eat.”

And what does our tradition mean if not our ability and, actually, our mandate to speak out against Israel, a state that is speaking in our name? And I think it’s doubly important because it kind of betrays the lie that Israel is a Jewish state. Israel is a state that is acting in its own interests, that has actually nothing to do with Jewish tradition or Jewish values. Jewish values teach that all people are made b’tselem elohim, in the image of the divine. And this is not how you treat the divine.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you explain why you were arrested on Friday at the Erez border crossing?

RABBI ALISSA WISE: So, when we got to the crossing, you know, we anticipated that we would be stopped, but it felt urgent that we try. So, we were at the border, and the police were insistent on pushing us back. You know, they actually did physically push us. And, you know, to us American activists, it felt really intense and violent. And later, some of the veteran Israeli activists that were with us were like, “Oh, they were actually being really light with you.” And we were like, “Wow, I can’t imagine what it looks like” — I mean, I can imagine what it looks like, you know, for them to be even more violent.

So, you know, they were insisting that we were in a closed military zone, which is — you know, we were freely walking down the road, so it wasn’t — there was nothing visible at where we were that we were in a closed military zone, though I know from other years of activism in the West Bank that that’s often what they say, is, “This is a closed military zone, and you can’t enter.” And so, they began arresting us and then forcibly removing everyone else who had come. So, we had parked our cars down the road and attempted to go on foot, and they pushed everybody back to their cars.

So, you know, then we were taken to two different police stations. And Ayelet and I and another rabbi were held for nine-and-a-half hours, during which we each kind of underwent an interrogation. And actually, when I sat down for my interrogation, the police officer said to me, you know, “You’re being detained here because you tried to bring food to the people of Gaza.”

AMY GOODMAN: It’s particularly interesting, Ayelet Waldman, that Rabbi Avi Dabush was there. He survived the Hamas attack on his kibbutz. He’s executive director of Rabbis for Human Rights. If you can talk about that, and then, before we end, talk not only about what’s happening in Gaza and why you were trying to get aid there, but what is less reported, and that is what is happening in the West Bank? Ayelet Waldman?

AYELET WALDMAN: Hi. One of the things that is important to know, I think, is that the kibbutzim that were on the south in what they call the Gaza envelope, the area of Israel that surrounds Gaza, many of the people in those kibbutzim were leftists. Many of them did things like escort people from Gaza to medical facilities in Israel. They worked — you know, Vivian Silver is someone that many of you know, a woman who devoted herself to coexistence, to peace. So, many people who were attacked — and again, I will not deny the brutality and the horror of those attacks — they were themselves people who had worked for peace.

But what I think boggles my mind, and I hope that I would have the personal courage, is when you see someone like the rabbi, someone like the siblings of people who were killed, holding true to their values, managing to keep their compasses pointed true north and to say that what happened to me and what happened to my people is not a reason for the kind of revenge that we are seeing now, and that revenge does not end in anything other than more revenge and this horrific cycle of violence.

You know, one of the reasons that I did what I did — which, again, I want to keep saying how small it is compared to what, you know, this flotilla was bringing, compared to what the Palestinian activists go through every day, compared to what the Israeli Jewish activists go through every day. But still, one of the reasons that I did what I did — and I can’t speak for Rabbi Alissa, but — is because I wanted to show the people who I love, Palestinians in the West Bank who I know, that they are not alone.

And it is so important to understand that weapons provided by American money have been distributed to settlers in the West Bank. Now, settlements in the West Bank are in violation of international law, all of them. If you were to look at a settlement, it would look to you like, you know, a beautiful town in Orange County, California. That is an illegal settlement. There are also fringe outposts that are even more — these are actually in violation of Israeli law, though you wouldn’t note that because they are protected by the Israeli government. And so, these settlers have been issued even more weapons than they already have. Many of them are now wearing uniforms, military uniforms. And they are carrying out a series of attacks on Palestinian individuals and communities in the West Bank.

So, for example, small Palestinian towns, people have been pushed out of their towns. People have been killed. People have been abused. People have been beaten up. And all eyes are on Gaza, as they should be, but the oppression and the violence being experienced by the Palestinians in the West Bank has not just continued, but the volume of it has been turned up immeasurably. And I think it’s critically important that we do not forget these people. And, you know, I just want to say, like — I want to tell one almost ridiculous story. So —

AMY GOODMAN: We have 30 seconds.

AYELET WALDMAN: Thirty seconds. There’s a village — and this is happening all over the Hebron Hills. There’s a village with shepherds, Palestinian shepherds. And what do the settlers do? They go, they take pictures of the sheep, and then they go to the police, the Israeli police, and they say, “They stole our sheep. And look, I have a picture of my sheep.” And then the Israeli police go, and they steal the shepherds’ sheep and give it to the settlers. I mean, think about that, the ridiculousness of stealing — and these are people who live hand to mouth. They live on the cheese they make from the milk they get from these sheep. And we’re seeing people being murdered, and we’re seeing people whose livelihoods are being stolen. And they’re even taking their animals. I mean, that’s the kind of absurdity that’s going on under cover of darkness while eyes are on the horror of Gaza.

AMY GOODMAN: Well, I want to thank you both for being with us. Ayelet Waldman is an Israeli American novelist and writer, among her books, the series, the “Mommy-Track” mysteries, as well as her autobiographical essays about motherhood. She’s speaking to us from Tel Aviv. And Rabbi Alissa Wise is founder and organizer with Rabbis for Ceasefire. She’s just back in Philadelphia. Both were arrested along with five others at the Erez crossing trying to get food into Gaza.

This is Democracy Now! When we come back, a new sci-fi documentary depicts the Palestinian city of Lyd, both with and without the Nakba in 1948. Sounds puzzling? Stay tuned.

[break]

AMY GOODMAN: Roger Waters performing “We Shall Overcome” in our Democracy Now! studios in 2016, accompanied by at the time the high school cellist Alexander Rohatyn. Waters is one of the executive producers of the film we’re going to be talking about, Lyd.


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“Lyd”: Palestinian & Jewish Directors of New Sci-Fi Doc on How 1948 Nakba Devastated Palestinian City
by Amy Goodman
DemmocracyNow!
APRIL 29, 2024

Transcript

A new film about the once-thriving Palestinian city of Lyd, now known as the Israeli city Lod and home to Ben Gurion Airport, has begun screening in the United States. The film is a “science fiction documentary” that depicts the Palestinian city both with and without the 1948 Nakba, when over 750,000 Palestinians were driven from their homes and villages. In Lyd, Israeli soldiers massacred hundreds of Palestinians in Dahmash Mosque during their takeover of the city. “We use the story of Lyd to symbolize the story of the Nakba, the Palestinian Nakba, the demolition and expulsion of over 600 villages all across Palestine,” explains Rami Younis, a descendant of Nakba survivors from Lyd. Younis and Sarah Ema Friedland, the co-directors of Lyd, join Democracy Now! to share excerpts from their film and discuss the vision behind their project.

Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman.

We end today’s show with a new film about the once-thriving Palestinian city of Lyd. It’s a science fiction documentary that depicts the Palestinian city both with and without the Nakba in 1948, when over 750,000 Palestinians were driven from their homes and villages, their property confiscated, 15,000 killed. When Lyd became part of Israel, its Palestinian residents were killed or exiled. Lyd is now known as Lod. The city is home to Ben Gurion Airport. The film examines the Lyd’s history and also presents an alternate reality in which the residents were not expelled in 1948. This is the trailer.

LYD RESIDENT: [translated] This tree has lemons, oranges and grenades! Every day they would throw something at us. And we kept it as a reminder of what we went through. I don’t want to go through a second Nakba.

LYD: [translated] I am thousands of years old. Everything changes. I’m not saying I want to be a utopia, a perfect city. I just want my exiled sons and daughters back. I want to prosper again. The story of Lyd is the story of Palestine.

AMY GOODMAN: The trailer for the new sci-fi documentary feature film Lyd. On Friday, I spoke to Palestinian writer and activist Rami Younis, who’s co-director of Lyd. He is originally from Lyd. We also were joined by his co-director Sarah Ema Friedland. I began by asking Rami to talk about Lyd and why he made the sci-fi documentary.

RAMI YOUNIS: Lyd was occupied in 1948. It was a city that once connected Palestine to the world. It had the Palestinian International Airport there. Also, due to its geographical location, it was a very important Palestinian bustling city. And then the occupation happened, and the city was almost completely demolished. And unfortunately, the story of that place hasn’t been fully told, so we decided to tell it.

However, how do you tell a story that’s been told so many times before? I mean, it’s the story of the Nakba, essentially. So we wanted to have a special twist. We wanted to do something that’s a bit outside the box. And we figured, “OK, let’s imagine an alternate reality in which that occupation and the atrocities of 1948 never happened in that place.” I mean, how would the reality be like if it weren’t for these atrocities? So, we decided to go a bit crazy and do something that’s a bit unusual in the Palestinian film landscape. And fortunately, I had a co-director that believed in the same idea, and we clicked. And there we are, having our New York premiere.

AMY GOODMAN: I want to turn to a scene from the film Lyd with city planner Orwa Switat.

ORWA SWITAT: [translated] In Lyd, as opposed to Haifa, Acre or Jaffa, history was completely erased. They used bulldozers and tractors to completely clear the historic Palestinian structures. The Israeli planning policy, from the occupation of 1948 to this day, erases historic Palestinian space and imposes their own history of this place, starting with the important historical moment, which isn’t called “the 1948 occupation of Lyd,” it’s called “the 1948 liberation of Lyd.”

This entire Zionist narrative does not only exist in private, but also in public space. As a Palestinian, you can walk around your neighborhoods and see that the street you live on is called “Tsahal [Israeli Army] Street.” The roundabout that you drive through is called “Palmach,” where the massacre happened in 1948. Names in public space, landmarks, these symbols deliver a clear message to us Palestinians, natives of this land, that this not our land. You are not indigenous to this land. You are not owners of your homeland. You are vistors.

AMY GOODMAN: Sarah Ema Friedland, talk about that massacre that he’s referring to in 1948. And tell us where Lyd is.

SARAH EMA FRIEDLAND: So, Lyd is the present-day city of Lod in Israel. It’s 15 kilometers from Tel Aviv. It’s where Ben Gurion Airport is now. During historical Palestine, as Rami said, it was the city that connected Palestine to the world. But now it is devastated and disinvested and divided by the Israeli occupation.

So, the massacre that happened in 1948 happened in a central mosque in Lyd called Dahmash Mosque. And there were — Lyd was one of the last cities to fall during the Nakba. There were like 50,000 people in Lyd in that moment, because lots of people from different towns that had already been conquered by the Israeli state had come to Lyd and were defending the city. And so, when the Palmach soldiers came in, there was a lot of resistance in Lyd. And some of this resistance was coming from Dahmash Mosque, but there were also civilians — women, children, men, everybody — in the mosque. And so, the Israeli soldiers, the Palmach soldiers —

AMY GOODMAN: And why are they called Palmach?

SARAH EMA FRIEDLAND: So, Palmach is one of the brigades, the kind of militias, that was pre-Israeli occupation forces, before the state of Israel that was founded. And so, these different militias during the Nakba were responsible for conquering many, many different towns and cities throughout historic Palestine.

So, when they came to Lyd, there were many different atrocities that were committed in Lyd, but the one we focus on is in this mosque. And so, a Palmach soldier fired a anti-tank missile into the mosque and killed around 200 people. Of course, we don’t know, because, you know, as we know, the records are kept by the people in power. And so this was a really devastating moment, because when Lyd fell, that was kind of almost like a symbol of the end of the resistance. And so, after that, there was an expulsion from Lyd where about 50,000 people were expelled from the city, and a thousand people were kept in Lyd in a ghetto by the Israeli state in order to keep the infrastructure of the city going.

AMY GOODMAN: I want to turn to the scene from the film Lyd where the Nakba survivor Eissa Fanous recounts being held captive by Israeli soldiers as a child.

EISSA FANOUS: [translated] This is me here. This is Sameer Al-Aboudi. He was with me when the Israeli army took us to Dahmash Mosque to remove the dead bodies. The decomposed bodies smelled really bad, dreadful. A week or two after the massacre, they took us in the Israeli army vehicles — me, Samir Aboudi, Rasheed Fanous, Khalil Abu Judoub — no, Khalil al-Belleh — to Lyd. We weren’t captives. We were children, like me, maybe a little older. I was probably the youngest. They took us there, dropped us off. “Take out the bodies.” Pulling, the bodies were falling apart, rotted. The smell was horrendous. We’d take the bodies out, and Israeli soldiers would burn them. At the end of the day, they would drive us back home. They took us two days in a row.

AMY GOODMAN: A 1948 Nakba survivor — of course, 1948 is the time of the founding of the state of Israel — speaking about what happened in Lyd. And this is personal for you, Rami. This is your family. You had ancestors, you had relatives who survived and didn’t survive 1948?

RAMI YOUNIS: So, yeah, I’m a third generation of, you know, Nakba survivors. Like Sarah said, only, well, less than 1,000 Palestinians were allowed to remain in Lyd. And we use the story of Lyd to symbolize the story of the Nakba, the Palestinian Nakba, the demolition and expulsion of over 600 villages all across Palestine. So, in a way, the story of Lyd is the story of Palestine.

And to us, you know, working on this film, Sarah and I, when we were shooting, not just Eissa Fanous, the person we just showed, who unfortunately has died before we were able to finish the film, so also we’re paying tribute to him by mentioning his name and showing this clip. So, filming this, filming them, was also our way of documenting what happened in 1948 for the ages, because we want to show that what happened in the past, you know, is still affecting what’s happening today, and what happened in the past, what started in the past, in 1948, is still ongoing. So, by telling these stories of these people, by documenting them, by capturing their accounts and showing them to people nowadays, maybe, we’re hoping, people will get a wider perspective of what’s happening in Israel-Palestine. And maybe they’ll be a kind and nice reminder that, unlike some people would like us to think, the world did not start on October 7th.

AMY GOODMAN: So, let’s go to this Palmach soldier. This is quite amazing. This is another scene with a member of Palmach, the Israeli militia group in 1948, but this is what? 1989, it’s decades later, when he is interviewed. And if you can set that up for us, Sarah? If you can set up why you have footage of a soldier from 1989 describing what he did in 1948?

SARAH EMA FRIEDLAND: Yeah. So, we were able to access this footage from the Palmach military archive in Israel. I had read about these clips, and Rami and I talked about it. And the Palmach, you know, in 1989, decided to make a TV documentary about all of the battles that happened during 1948, all the invasions. And so they took these soldiers back to the places where they committed their war crimes, and they filmed with them, because for the state of Israel, this is not anything to be ashamed of. You know, they are —

RAMI YOUNIS: Oh yeah, they wanted to celebrate their [inaudible], yeah.

SARAH EMA FRIEDLAND: They are proud of this history.

RAMI YOUNIS: Yeah.

SARAH EMA FRIEDLAND: Right? So —

AMY GOODMAN: But this is one soldier who wasn’t proud.

EZRA GREENBOIM: [translated] I want to describe what I saw inside the mosque. There were women, men and children in there. Some, a few, were injured, and I don’t know from what. I don’t know from what. A few were injured. Many were sitting against the wall, terrified, but looking at me. I remember that a small girl was sitting next to the wall, around 12 years old. She was holding her younger sister in her arms. She hugged her and was waving her other hand like a pendulum. With spread fingers, as if to say, “Don’t shoot.” And I didn’t know what to do, and I didn’t know anything. I remember this sight, and I stormed outside.

Then, in front of the mosque’s door, there was a wall, and in the corner sat a local Palestinian person. I remember his face. He had a round face. He was very injured. I don’t know from what. That was the first time I was that close. And I saw his eyes. Terrified, confused, I have no words. I was confused, but it appeared that in his eyes, I was — I was a murderer. That’s what he saw in my eyes. Then he looks at me and says in Yiddish — Yiddish! — “Hob Rachmones. Hob Rachmones,” meaning in Hebrew, “Have mercy on me.” It reminded me of everything that we faced in exile, the pleas of mercy from Jews throughout generations. And I stormed outside. I stormed outside. And I don’t know what happened inside the mosque afterwards.

AMY GOODMAN: That was a Palmach soldier recounting what he did, in 1989, back in 1948. Rami Younis, as you watch this, your thoughts? He is no longer alive.

RAMI YOUNIS: As a Palestinian watching these, you know, soldiers describing what happened, and before that, and if you watch the film, you see other soldiers who are actually proud of what they did — I mean, you know, they look at the filmmakers, they look at the filmmaker, they look at the camera, and they described how they fired an anti-tank missile into a mosque and then went in with a grenade. And one of the soldiers even said, “And what the anti-tank missile didn’t take care of, the grenades took care of after that.” So, it’s like as if it’s a game to them, as if they’re not killing human beings. And this is the danger of allowing them to keep doing that. And we need to keep talking about that, and we need to show that what happened in 1948 is still happening.

AMY GOODMAN: And what is the state of Lyd today?

RAMI YOUNIS: Not good. Not good. We have a population of around 30,000 Palestinians there. And if you come and see the city, if you have a tour in the city, you will see the stark differences between how Jewish people live there, Jewish Israelis live there, and how Palestinian citizens of Israel live in Lyd. Poverty. It’s a city infested with crime. Almost every week, there are a few murders, unfortunately. And we’ve all been a victim of this, of this crime, and police are not doing anything about it, as you can imagine.

AMY GOODMAN: So, Rami, you are a Palestinian with Israeli citizenship.

RAMI YOUNIS: Yes.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about what you face? Can you talk about the discrimination Palestinians with Israeli citizenship face? Amnesty International and other human rights groups have recently concluded that — what Palestinians have been saying for decades — this is a system of apartheid.

RAMI YOUNIS: Oh yeah. And if you want to truly understand what it’s like to be a Palestinian citizen of Israel, look no further than what happened after October 7th. We’ve been silent for months, because we were unable to speak up. I mean, people claim — Israelis claim that Israel is a democracy, but it’s not. I mean, if you look at what happened after October 7th — I’m a journalist Amy. You know, I made a career out of being critical and outspoken. I was white. After October 7th, I wasn’t able — I was afraid to even like the wrong post on my social media. People were arrested for sharing the wrong thing, for like liking the wrong thing. And again, I say “the wrong thing.” So, freedom of speech is really impaired. And it’s been like that. And after October 7th, it’s just been insane.

I’m going to give you one more example. The Israeli chief of police said that if people in Israel wanted to demonstrate or show empathy to the people of Gaza, he will take them there himself. Now, this is a public servant admitting that he is willing to commit an illegal act by shipping Israeli citizens into Gaza if they practice their right to demonstrate. If you look at Arab towns and if you look at Israeli Jewish towns, you will see the differences of how people live there. There are a lot of marginalized communities, I would say, within Palestinian citizens of Israel.

AMY GOODMAN: So, this film comes out this year, and then October 7th happens. You were planning to have all sorts of premieres. What happened, Sarah?

SARAH EMA FRIEDLAND: Yeah. So, we premiered the film in August at the Amman Film Festival. It was amazing. They were packed theaters. Seventy percent of the population of Jordan is Palestinian. And so the audiences were so excited to see themselves in the film, to see themselves represented, but also to see, you know, this alternate reality that — where the occupation never happens, right? And so, it was incredible. They had to add another screening. We won two awards. And all these things came into place.

And then October 7th happens. And, you know, the world — everything changes, obviously. Things are not entirely safe for Rami. Also, festivals are being shut down. We were supposed to premiere in Palestine at Palestine Days of Cinema. That festival was canceled. We were going to have our theatrical run, which is starting this week in New York, but we had to pull that, as well. So, it was like a really — it was a very tough time, because it was like we really wanted to share the film. It speaks to this moment. It provides extremely important context. But it just wasn’t.

AMY GOODMAN: And, Rami, it provides a view of the future. This is a sci-fi documentary. What does it mean to say Lyd when there was a Nakba and when there wasn’t?

RAMI YOUNIS: Essentially, this is the way we see it. It’s an exercise in imagination as a basic human right. And if we don’t imagine a different reality, we are just doomed to live in a reality that was created by someone else’s imagination. Now, Amy, if there’s one thing the occupier or the oppressor — I mean, you name it — can take away from us, it’s our ability to imagine or reimagine. So, in our film, we just wanted to create this space in which what happened in 1948 never happened.

Now, when we premiered the film in the Amman International Film Festival, we actually chose Amman, to premiere the film there, because we knew there will be Palestinians there. To our — not to our surprise, actually, we were hoping that they would show up, but Lydian refugees, refugees from Lyd from 1948, showed up and came to watch the film. You know, seeing how profound this was for them, seeing how they were moved by, you know, seeing the place they heard about so much — they dream about going back to that place — and seeing that place without what had happened in 1948 was truly profound to them. And to us, it was very satisfying to see that, you know, this job is needed.

AMY GOODMAN: And can you, finally, talk about the animation in this film? I mean, just the structure of the film is so unusual.

RAMI YOUNIS: So, yeah, we have animation in the film. The alternate reality was created through animation. And the good thing about animation is that you can just run wild with your imagination. You can do whatever you want.

And yeah, so — and we have characters. For example, we have a character from Balata refugee camp, which is a refugee camp in the West Bank. The guy is a welder. He’s always dreamed of becoming a lawyer. But because of the occupation, because he was from a refugee camp, it wasn’t possible. In the alternate reality, we have him as a lawyer in a university in Lyd. Now, Lyd doesn’t have a university. In the alternate reality, it has a university.

And by the way, we also — like, the same characters we have in the documentary part of the film, they dub their own voices. They dub their own avatars, so they were part of the creative process. So, they dub their own avatars in the alternate reality. So, the whole thing was just a lot of fun to work on, yeah.

AMY GOODMAN: And so, you talk about the difficulty of expressing yourself in Israel. What about coming here as you release this film in the United States, Sarah?

SARAH EMA FRIEDLAND: Yeah. So, I’m a professor of documentary filmmaking. And, you know, we see across the country just extreme repression happening in our universities, you know, from students to faculty to staff who have spoken out against the genocide in Gaza being suspended. I mean, the encampments that are happening are absolutely incredible. But there are real consequences for all of us, as well. And we’re seeing that happen more and more. But I think that what’s amazing is that people are not afraid. I feel like this is a real turning point in how U.S. people are engaging with what has been happening in Palestine for over 70 years. Yeah, so, I’m curious how it feels for you being here in this moment.

RAMI YOUNIS: It feels — I mean, it feels awesome, to be honest. It feels like I can breathe, I can breathe again. There are a couple of things that are very wrong with nowadays Israel. People don’t understand it. But even the reports on what’s happening on U.S. college campuses at the moment, some Israeli outlets are reporting that Jewish students are being arrested for just being Jewish. However, in reality, we know that Jewish students were arrested because they protested against the genocide in Gaza. So, to the Israeli — the average Israeli is a victim, by the way. The average Israeli is a victim of their own media. They don’t know what’s happening. They don’t know what’s happening across the world and how, like, young Americans are perceiving Israel. So, to me, being out here feels like I can speak my mind. I can — I even got a text from my mom yesterday. It’s like, “Be careful. Be careful.”

SARAH EMA FRIEDLAND: “Don’t post.”

RAMI YOUNIS: Yeah, “Don’t post stuff on your social media.” So, I don’t think she got used to the fact that her son is a journalist and I do that every now and then. But, I mean, it feels — I know we have a lot of criticism on American democracy. And I think the current administration will go down in history — unless things change, the current administration will go down in history as the administration that ended American democracy maybe. But it’s much better — the situation in here is much better than in Israel. And I feel like being on TV here, doing interviews, talking to just people on the street, people are willing to listen. And finally, people are willing to listen, but, unfortunately, it took a genocide so that people show interest in what’s happening in Palestine.

AMY GOODMAN: Palestinian writer and activist Rami Younis, co-director of Lyd, originally from the city of Lyd. We were also joined by his co-director, Sarah Ema Friedland. Lyd is currently playing at the DCTV Firehouse Cinema in New York, showings followed by Q&A with the filmmakers. The film will also be shown around the country and around the world, including the Houston Palestine Film Festival next month, the Chicago Palestine Film Festival, at the Laemmle theater in Los Angeles, and Unseen Cinema in Nairobi, Kenya.

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“We Don’t Want to Trade in the Blood of Palestinians”: Voices of Students & Profs at Columbia Protest
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
APRIL 30, 2024

Transcript

Nearly 300 peaceful protesters were arrested over the weekend as student-led Gaza solidarity encampments across U.S. university and college campuses face an intensifying crackdown. Democracy Now! spoke with Columbia University professors and students Monday as they were threatened with suspension but voted to continue the Gaza Solidarity Encampment, which began almost two weeks ago. “Hundreds of our students have been disciplined in the past six months on unfair premises,” said Sueda Polat, a Columbia student organizer who is studying human rights. “We are willing to put a lot on the line for this cause. My right to education shouldn’t come before the right to education of Gazans.”

Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: As police crack down on student protesters around the country, we begin today at Columbia University, where scores of students took over Hamilton Hall just after midnight last night after the school began suspending students who refused to leave the Gaza Solidarity Encampment, which began almost two weeks ago. Columbia’s Emergency Management Operations Team says it has now locked down the main campus following the occupation. Hamilton Hall was also the site of a historic student occupation in 1968. Students have renamed the building Hind’s Hall in honor of Hind Rajab, a 6-year-old Palestinian girl killed by the Israeli military in Gaza.

PROTESTER: [echoed by the people’s mic] This building is liberated in honor of Hind, a 6-year-old Palestinian child murdered in Gaza!

AMY GOODMAN: Students are calling for Columbia University to divest from Israel. Democracy Now! was on campus Monday. We spoke to professors and students after a vote around noon to stay in the encampment despite being sanctioned with interim suspension.

PROTESTERS: Disclose! Divest! We will not stop! We will not rest! Disclose! Divest!

AMY GOODMAN: I’m Amy Goodman, host of Democracy Now! We’re on the Columbia University campus. Right behind us is the tent encampment. There are dozens of tents there. And then you see around me are people in orange fluorescent vests. They are the faculty. They are the professors at Columbia University who are here to protect their students. It’s just before 2:30, when a news conference will be held. We just passed a 2 p.m. deadline, when Columbia President Shafik said after this point that the students can be suspended. It’s not clear whether they will be moving in the police. On Friday, President Shafik said they would not send in the New York police. But as we were coming up from the subway, there were scores of police. And I now have heard that they’re standing there with plastic handcuffs. But these students are determined.

SUEDA POLAT: My name is Sueda Polat. I’m a student organizer. I’m a graduate student at Columbia University. I study human rights here. I’m also part of the negotiating team.

AMY GOODMAN: And if you could tell us what is it exactly you’re demanding?

SUEDA POLAT: Simple. We don’t want to trade in the blood of Palestinians. And that means divestment from all direct and indirect holding that this university has, whether that be weapons manufacturing, companies that operate illegally in occupied territory, companies that produce information technology for the occupation army. Complete divestment.

We’re also requesting disclosure. We don’t have transparency on this university’s investments. And we need that to be able to push the movement further.

We’re also requesting amnesty. Hundreds of our students have been disciplined over the past six months on unfair premises. We’re willing to put a lot on the line for this cause. My right to education shouldn’t come before the right to education of Gazans.

LINNEA NORTON: My name is Linnea Norton. I’m a Ph.D. student here.

AMY GOODMAN: In?

LINNEA NORTON: In — I study ecology and climate science. I’m a second-year. And yeah, I’ve been part of the initial encampment and was one of the over a hundred students who were suspended and arrested, or first arrested and subsequently suspended.

We have our doctors in John Jay Hall, just there. And my shoulder was injured during the arrest because we were zip-tied for like seven hours straight. And I couldn’t go to the doctor. So I had to go to — because I wasn’t allowed to enter campus and be on campus property. So I had to go to urgent care.

AMY GOODMAN: So you had to pay for that.

LINNEA NORTON: Yeah, yeah.

PROTESTERS: Hey hey! Ho ho! The occupation has got to go!

SHANA REDMOND: My name is Shana Redmond. I am a professor of English and comparative literature and the Center for the Study of Ethnicity and Race. And I’m here today because this is leadership in action. These students have taken the worst of circumstances on a global scale and the worst of circumstances at a very localized university scale and turned it into something beautiful. The encampment here, complete with a library, complete with a deescalation team, complete with lessons and teach-ins, has modeled for this campus what open and free inquiry and debate actually looks like.

As the students say, we keep us safe. And so, we, as faculty, are here to assist in ensuring that that is made true.

NADIA ABU EL-HAJ: I’m Nadia Abu El-Haj. I’m an anthropologist, a professor of anthropology, and the co-director of the Center for Palestine Studies. The people behind me in the orange vests are mostly faculty, some staff, who have been mobilized since the last police raid, however long ago it was. We’ve mobilized faculty who would come out and stand sort of both guard but also mostly witness if the police came in again. The president has promised that the police would not come in. That was a promise made two days ago. But this morning, her email said that the encampment would be cleared after 2 p.m. if the students didn’t leave. So we’re not quite clear what that means, how they’re going to clear the encampment.

I mean, the core issue in the immediate is, of course, the genocide going on in Gaza. And the kind of depiction of the students as somehow Hamas supporters or antisemites and sort of dangerous rabble-rousers is a complete misrepresentation of these students. They’ve been calm. They’ve been incredibly well organized. And they’re taking a principled stance.

AMY GOODMAN: What about the fact that today a Jewish student sued the university, saying they don’t feel safe on campus?

NADIA ABU EL-HAJ: I think that there is a really important distinction to be made between feeling unsafe and being unsafe. So I would start with that. I am more than willing to engage any student in a conversation about feeling unsafe. And we’re hearing a lot of that from Muslim and Palestinian students, as well. But as I told the Palestinian students I met with about this months ago, I think it’s helpful to disentangle: When you say, “I feel unsafe,” what are you feeling? Are you uncomfortable? Are you offended? Are you angered? Or are you actually unsafe?

Being doxxed makes you unsafe. Being sprayed by chemicals makes you unsafe. Having the right-wing Christian nationalists on the outside trying to climb the fences into Columbia makes people unsafe. But a lot of what is being labeled as unsafe is being made uncomfortable. And if there are specific instances of physical threats and violence against Jewish students, of course they need to be dealt with. But the depiction of campus as a kind of hotbed of antisemitism that makes Jewish students unsafe is just not true. And there are lots of Jewish students in the encampment. JVP is a very powerful force on this campus, and they don’t think it’s an accurate description.

MAHMOUD KHALIL: Throughout the negotiations, the Shafik administration treated this movement as a matter of internal student discipline rather than a movement or rather than as one of the great moral and political questions of this generation.

ANURIMA BHARGAVA: Anurima Bhargava, civil rights lawyer and filmmaker. This is, you know, we’re into the second — third week of the encampment. Obviously, this morning, there was a statement by the president, very much sort of putting people on alert and trying to give herself the legal foundation that she didn’t have when she arrested students the first time.

And I think, in many ways, we continue to see a very — very much an encampment that has been peaceful. There are many, many students who came here when they heard about the fact that there’s action that has been promised to be taken today. And so we see a lot of people. A lot of students have come in support of the students who have been part of the encampment for all of these days. And I think this is somewhat of a situation of the university’s own creation, right? Because by suggesting that they’re going to take action today, there have been a lot more students who have come onto campus.

And in many ways — again, this is the last day of classes. This is a time where we’re going into study period. And if you can see around you, there’s a lot of efforts to get ready for commencement. And so, we’re at the end of the school year. And in many ways, this request to sort of remove students because of a safety concern — obviously, two weeks ago, when this happened, it was, you know, even the chief of police of the New York Police Department was saying that these students were peacefully protesting, and they were not resisting arrest, and they were peacefully here.

PROTESTERS: Disclose! Divest! We will not stop! We will not rest! Disclose! Divest!

AMY GOODMAN: Some of the voices of students, professors and their supporters at Columbia University, the Gaza Solidarity Encampment Monday, as many students refused to leave even as they faced suspension. Standing outside of Columbia University on the sidewalk, I then spotted civil rights activist Reverend Herbert Daughtry. I asked why he was there.

REV. HERBERT DAUGHTRY: My name is Herb Daughtry. My church is the House of the Lord Churches. And I’m standing out here today to support the students, the right to protest for what they believe is right. That’s our tradition. I’ve stood on many lines before, across the world, for Roman Catholics in Northern Ireland, for Jews here, for Palestinians. I just believe that somebody somewhere must be advocating for peace.

AMY GOODMAN: Let me ask you: Did you know Dr. King? And when were you with him?

REV. HERBERT DAUGHTRY: Well, Dr. King, yes, we go back, 1958, ’59, something like that, particularly on the War in Vietnam, 1967. I was at the Riverside Church when he made his famous “Why I Oppose the War in Vietnam.” And —

AMY GOODMAN: Do you see this as a similar moment? Where people take a position that — even people in King’s inner circle said, “You shouldn’t take on the Vietnam War. It’s not your war. You are a civil rights leader.” And he said, “No, all of these issues are connected.”

REV. HERBERT DAUGHTRY: And I’m a follower of Dr. King. I believe our efforts are to save the planet, save the people. That’s what I believe that I’ve been called to do. And wherever there are oppression, exploitation, wherever there are people who — listen, Jesus said, told us, the least of these, to struggle for, speak for, work for, the least in society. And so we try to identify where are — where’s the pain, where’s the misery. And I’ve been to Sudan. I’ve been to Israel. I’ve been to Ireland, you name it, and Saigon. So, you know, I’m 93 now, so been —

AMY GOODMAN: So, you were here at Riverside Church, just down the road from Columbia University, on April 4th, 1967, a year to the day before Dr. King was assassinated, when he gave his speech here against the War in Vietnam. What was it like to be in there?

REV. HERBERT DAUGHTRY: Well, I had taken some young people. And it was an electric moment. Everybody was waiting for him and when he speaks, because he was mesmerizing. And when he speaks, his reasoning was compelling, persuasive, for anybody who had even a balanced mind. And it was an electric moment. And, well, it was an unforgettable moment.

AMY GOODMAN: Do you see parallels to today?

REV. HERBERT DAUGHTRY: Yeah, where people are gathered to make these issues, to raise these issues, yes. What impressed me is when people are putting their lives on the line, their conveniences on the line. That impressed me. So, when you run across people who are willing to risk something precious, you take note. And so, if Dr. King were here, I believe he’d be here. And it was he who said, “If we haven’t found something to die for, we haven’t found something to live for.”

AMY GOODMAN: That’s the legendary civil rights activist Reverend Herbert Daughtry at 93. His daughter, Reverend Leah Daughtry, was the CEO of the Democratic National Conventions in 2008 and 2016. As her father proudly said, they were rated the best conventions ever.

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In Gaza Protest, Columbia Students Occupy Hamilton Hall, Site of Historic 1968 Takeover
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
April 30. 2024

Columbia University students began occupying Hamilton Hall shortly after midnight Tuesday as the university moved to suspend students who joined Gaza solidarity protests, and renamed it Hind’s Hall, after Hind Rajab, a 6-year-old Palestinian girl killed by Israeli soldiers in Gaza in January. We look at how it was 56 years ago today, on April 30, 1968, that the hall was also the site of the historic student occupation by students who renamed the building “Nat Turner Hall at Malcolm X University.” We feature an archival newsreel about the 1968 occupation and our interviews with campus activists on the 40th anniversary of the action about how they were protesting Columbia’s connections to the military-industrial complex and racist development policies in Harlem.

Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman.

As we go back now in history, Columbia University’s Hamilton Hall, which students occupied just after midnight last night, we reported earlier, was also the site of a historic student occupation in 1968. It was actually on this day, April 30th, 1968, when hundreds of students at Columbia University started a revolt on campus. Students went on strike. They occupied five buildings, including the president’s office in Low Library. The students barricaded themselves inside the buildings for days. They were protesting Columbia’s ties to military research and plans to build a university gymnasium in a public park in Harlem. The protests began less than three weeks after the assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. The 1968 Columbia uprising inspired student protests across the country. This is an excerpt from the documentary Columbia Revolt by Third World Newsreel.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Students at Columbia moved to take over buildings despite warnings from campus officials.

STUDENT ORGANIZER 1: In order to show solidarity of people with six strike leaders who they had tried to suspend, they decided to take Hamilton once again.

CAMPUS OFFICIAL: You are hereby directed to clear out of this building. I’ll give you further instructions if this building is not cleared out within the next 10 minutes.

STRIKE LEADER: I’m asking how many of you here are willing now to stay with me, sit-in here, until…

STUDENT ORGANIZER 2: After three votes, a majority decided to stay.

STUDENTS: Strike! Strike! Strike! Strike! Strike! Strike! Strike! Strike! Strike! Strike! Strike! Strike! Strike!

CAMPUS OFFICIAL: If you do not choose to leave this building, I have to inform you that we have no alternative but to call the police. Any student who is arrested will be immediately suspended.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: The students then set up barricades inside the administration buildings.

STUDENT ORGANIZER 3: The first day in Math, we set up a defense committee, which took care of putting up the barricades. We decided what our policy would be toward police, toward jocks. We soaped some of the stairs. We taped the windows. We emptied bookcases and put them up in front of the windows in case tear gas canisters did get through the tape.

STUDENT ORGANIZER 4: And it hung up a lot of people when there would be a little scratch or mar on one of the marble-top desks or something. And the second time we built barricades, these hang-ups disappeared, and we had decided that barricades were necessary politically and strategically, and anything went in making strong and, this time, permanent-type barricades.

STUDENT ORGANIZER 5: Defense is all taken care of. Security is a problem, letting people in and out of the buildings. Watches — we need people to watch the windows every night.

STUDENT ORGANIZER 6: We had a walkie-talkie setup, citizens’ band walkie-talkies, plus there were telephone communications to every building, which the university tapped. We had three mimeographs at work constantly, and there were people who did nothing during the strike but relay to the mimeograph machine. And there was a big sign on the wall, a quote from somebody in Berkeley, who says five students and a mimeograph machine can do more harm to a university than an army.

AMY GOODMAN: An excerpt from the documentary Columbia Revolt by Third World Newsreel about 1968. Juan González, Democracy Now! co-host, introduced that tape when we first aired it on Democracy Now! on the 40th anniversary of the Columbia 1968 strike. Juan González was one of the founders of the Young Lords and one of the leaders of the Columbia student revolt in 1968.

Yes, in 2008, on that 40th anniversary, we spoke with a number of the activists involved in the Columbia strike, including William Sales, who was a leader of the Student Afro-American Society at Columbia and then the chair of African American Studies at Seton Hall University in New Jersey, as well as Gus Reichbach, who was a leading figure in Students for a Democratic Society at Columbia in 1968, then became a New York state Supreme Court judge in Brooklyn. We began the conversation with Juan González speaking on that 40th anniversary of the student strike and takeover of Hamilton Hall.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Now we want to go into the dorms with all of you, with some of you who may not — who may not agree with a lot of what we’ve been saying here, who have questions, who support us, who want to know more. Let’s go to the dorms. Let’s talk quietly, in small groups. We’ll be there, and everyone in Livingston — in Livingston lobby, in Furnald lobby, in Carman lobby. We’ll be there, and we’ll talk about the issues involved, and we’ll talk about where this country is going and where this university is going and what it’s doing in the society and what we would like it to do and what we would — and how we would like to exchange with you our ideas over it. Come join us now.

AMY GOODMAN: That was Juan González, courtesy of the Pacifica Radio Archives. Juan, you speaking 40 years ago, explain the context.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Well, in the process of trying to build the strike, we were going into all the various dorms of the students and holding what SDS used to hold a lot of in those days, which were discussion groups or political discussions, group discussions, and we were trying to win over more people to the strike at that period of time. And this was after, obviously, the big — the major police occupation of the campus, which occurred on April 30th, and as the rest — throughout the rest of the semester, there was a strike that shut down the entire university for the rest of the year.

AMY GOODMAN: So, Gus Reichbach, now a judge, then a leader of SDS, please set the scene for us. How did this happen? Where were you before the strike?

GUSTIN REICHBACH: Well, I was one of the few law students who was involved in campus activity, antiwar activity, anti-gym activity.

The actual event itself was a spontaneous one, in terms of the actual occupation of the buildings. But the predicate for it was really years of organizing on the campus, really beginning in 1964. The year before, there had been a big demonstration about recruitment in ROTC. The gym was becoming an escalating issue. People were getting more and more responsive to the protest of the local community in Harlem, who was opposing the gym.

So, you know, we were often given, I’m happy to say, more credit than we deserve, in the sense that this was seen as a well-calculated plot, where at any point along that day things might have taken a different turn. In fact, probably if Dean Coleman in Hamilton Hall had opened his door and received the petition, the occupation may never have occurred. So things proceed in peculiar ways. But even though the events were unplanned, the lead-up involved years of organizing.

AMY GOODMAN: You mention '64. Bill Sales, ’65, Malcolm X was gunned down not far from there, now, actually at the Audubon Ballroom, that's been taken over by a new building, the Columbia University biotech building, also very controversial. Did that play a role, though that was three years before?

WILLIAM SALES: The Student Afro-American Society has very definite links to Malcolm X through the son of Kenneth Clark, Hilton Clark, who was one of the founding members of that organization, who was very much inspired by Malcolm X. SAAS always had a distinctly Black nationalist aura about it that was basically its guiding principle. So we saw ourselves as being in a tradition that had been highlighted by Malcolm X. When we actually took over Hamilton Hall, we renamed it Nat Turner Hall of Malcolm X University.

AMY GOODMAN: Explain who Nat Turner was.

WILLIAM SALES: Nat Turner was a slave preacher who in 1831 in Southampton County, Virginia, led the largest slave revolt on the North American mainland.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Bill, one of the things, I think, that most people are not aware of, because sometimes they don’t connect all of the events leading up to a particular crisis, was the climate. As I’ve often mentioned, this strike or the occupation began less than three weeks after the King assassination. And the impact on young people then, not only of the assassination, but of the disturbances and rebellions that broke out in over a hundred cities across the country — any of you want to talk about what the climate for young people was at that moment, at that particular moment in history?

WILLIAM SALES: Well, I certainly can speak to the African American experience, and it certainly — what made it an important experience was that for the first time other than African Americans were also being caught up in that energy. But most of the people in Hamilton Hall had been in one or another urban rebellion. For instance, you mention the King assassination. That very night, I and Ray Brown and other people would go on to play leadership roles of the takeovers that were on 125th Street. First time anybody ever shot at me was a policeman shooting over my head on 125th Street as various stores went up in flames. We were also, much earlier that previous summer, in Newark during the Newark rebellions. We had raised funds in support of the families of students killed on February the 8th, I think, in Orangeburg, South Carolina, South Carolina State. So there was a continuous involvement in the turmoil of the day that incorporated larger and larger numbers of people who also would take over those buildings.

AMY GOODMAN: That was William Sales, leader of the Student Afro-American Society at Columbia in 1968, then the chair of African American Studies at Seton Hall University in New Jersey, and Gus Reichbach, who was a leader in Students for a Democratic Society at Columbia in 1968. He was a Columbia law student, then a New York State Supreme Court judge in Brooklyn. Tom Hayden was also there. To see our full interview on the 40th anniversary of the Columbia revolt, along with Juan González, you can go to democracynow.org.

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Israeli Holocaust Scholar Omer Bartov on Campus Protests, Weaponizing Antisemitism & Silencing Dissent
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
APRIL 30, 2024

Transcript

As Biden administration and U.S. college and university administrators increasingly accuse peaceful pro-Palestinian protesters on school campuses of antisemitism, we speak with Brown University professor of Holocaust and genocide studies Omer Bartov, who visited the student Gaza solidarity encampment at UPenn alongside fellow Israeli historian Raz Segal. “There was absolutely no sign of any violence, of any antisemitism at all,” says Bartov, who warns antisemitism is being used to silence speech about Israel. “There’s politics, and there’s prejudice. And if we don’t make a distinction between the two, then what we are actually doing is enforcing a kind of silence over the policies that have been conducted by the Israeli government for a long time that ultimately culminated now in the utter destruction of Gaza.”

Transcript

AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now! I’m Amy Goodman.

As we continue to look at the crackdown on student-led Gaza solidarity encampments across U.S. campuses, we look now at how the Biden administration and several members of Congress have echoed intensifying accusations that the peaceful student-led pro-Palestinian protests are antisemitic.

We’re joined now by Omer Bartov. He’s a professor of Holocaust and genocide studies at Brown University. His recent piece is headlined “Weaponizing Language: Misuses of Holocaust Memory and the Never Again Syndrome.” The professor recently visited the student Gaza solidarity encampment at the University of Pennsylvania, sharing on social media a photograph with the Israeli historian Raz Segal and a message that said, quote, “With Raz Segal at the UPenn encampment on April 26. Warm and open conversation about the perils of antisemitism and of its current weaponization,” unquote. Omer Bartov is also author of numerous books, including Genocide, the Holocaust and Israel-Palestine: First-Person History in Times of Crisis. He’s an Israeli American scholar who’s been described by the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum as one of the world’s leading specialists on the subject of genocide. He’s joining us now from his home in Cambridge, Massachusetts.

Professor Bartov, welcome back to Democracy Now! If you can talk about what’s happening on these college campuses, what your visit to the UPenn encampment was like, as your own university, Brown University, students have set up an encampment? And their chant is “From Columbia to Brown, we will not let Gaza down.” And talk about what authorities are charging are the charges of antisemitism, although so many of those involved in these encampments are Jewish, with groups like Jewish Voice for Peace.

OMER BARTOV: Good morning, Amy. Thank you for having me again.

Well, look, I mean, my visit to UPenn, I was there with Raz Segal. We first, actually, both gave a talk, both of us, about antisemitism and its current weaponization. And then we visited the encampment. It was a beautiful afternoon. There were very nice, good students there. We sat and chatted with them. We talked about antisemitism and about its current use. There was absolutely no sound of any — no sign of any violence, of any antisemitism at all. There were Jewish students there. There were Arab students there. There were all kinds of young people there. And the atmosphere was very good. The next day, I heard that the authorities of UPenn had decided to shut down the encampment.

A couple of days earlier, I was passing by the green at Brown University, and again there was an encampment there. Students were sitting there quietly, singing, playing the guitar. It was all very peaceful. And that same day, I heard from a faculty member who had visited that encampment that he had received an email from the dean of the faculty warning him that if he were to show up there again, measures would be taken. And now this issue is being debated at Brown. I believe today, this afternoon, there will be a meeting with the faculty, many of whom, of course, like me, very upset by this kind of arbitrary action, which was taken without any consultation with faculty. So, that’s the kind of context.

Look, I mean, obviously, antisemitism, as myself and many others have said, is a vile sentiment. It’s an old sentiment. It has been used for bloodshed, for violence and for genocide. And no one should condone it, and obviously none of us would ever condone it. But it has also become a tool to silence speech about Israel. And that, too, has quite a history. And the current Israeli government — or, rather, the numerous governments under Benjamin Netanyahu have been pushing this agenda of arguing that any criticism of Israeli policies, not least of Israeli occupation policies — this precedes, of course, events in Gaza — is antisemitic.

And I’ve been listening to some of the interviews with Jewish students who feel threatened. And often it appears to me — and, of course, we don’t have, you know, good research of that at the moment, but it appears to me that many of them feel threatened because they see a Palestinian flag, because they hear people calling for intifada. “Intifada” means “shaking off.” There’s a very similar word in Hebrew for it, ”lehitna’er.” It’s what a dog does when it shakes off water. It’s to shake off the occupation. And there are Jewish students, often who are influenced by their Israeli friends, who feel that that is threatening.

But there’s nothing threatening about opposing occupation and oppression. That is not antisemitism. You can agree with it or not. Even being anti-Zionist is not antisemitic. There are hundreds of thousands, if not more, of ultra-Orthodox Jews, including some who are in the Israeli government, who are anti-Zionist, but they’re not antisemitic. They see themselves as the epitome of Jewishness and Jewish tradition. So, there’s politics, and there’s prejudice. And if we don’t make a distinction between the two, then what we are actually doing is enforcing a kind of silence over the policies that have been conducted by the Israeli government for a long time and that ultimately culminated now in the utter destruction of Gaza.

AMY GOODMAN: You know, we were showing images of the Brown protest, where you’re a professor. And some of the signs read, “Brown, divest now.” Another said, “No others like Hisham,” of course, referring to the Brown University student Hisham Awartani, the Palestinian American student who was visiting his grandmother in Burlington, Vermont, with his two best friends, also Palestinian American, and they were shot by a white man from his porch. Hisham was the most wounded. He is paralyzed. And then you have at Columbia the students who were skunked, that kind of chemical that is used, where I think it sent eight Columbia students — they were pro-Palestinian activists protesting — to the hospital. And it turned out that at least one of the people who skunked them was a former IDF Israeli military soldier who was studying at Columbia University.

OMER BARTOV: Look, first of all, about Hisham, I mean, this is just a terrible tragedy, he and his two friends. This sort of combines both the politics and the rhetoric of hate that you find these days in Israel and, of course, American discourse, which have unfortunately converged. And that’s just horribly tragic.

This case of skunking, you know, over the last few months, there have been many demonstrations in Israel against this government’s policy. And the government has taken to using water cannon, often in a really brutal manner that is firing it directly at people’s faces, which is legally not allowed, and using this kind of stinking water, skunk, in central streets in Tel Aviv and in Jerusalem, again, to shut down any debate in Israel. It’s very sad to see that being also imported to American streets.

Let me say there is an interesting difference between what is happening in Israel regarding Gaza, what is happening in the United States. In Israel, heads of universities have come out just recently with a statement warning about antisemitism on American campuses, which, to my knowledge, does not exist in any significant form. That is, as I said before, not antisemitism, but protests against Israeli policies. These same heads of universities in Israel have been collaborating in shutting down criticism in Israel itself. And there was a very tragic case with a Palestinian professor of the Hebrew University, Nadera Shalhoub-Kevorkian, who was first sort of attacked by the university and later was arrested by the police and mistreated really badly, kept overnight in a jail, stripped, humiliated — this is a full professor in her sixties and a well-known scholar — because she had expressed empathy with what was happening in Gaza. And the main difference is that not only did university leaders not come out in support of their own faculty member, but there are many students at the universities that are actually supporting these kinds of policies.

And I think we should be proud that in American universities students actually are demonstrating in favor of those who are being oppressed and now who are being killed. And they’re doing it, first of all, because it’s the right thing to do. They’re doing it also because they are American citizens. It is American taxpayers’ money that is paying for the arms that the United States is shipping in vast amounts to Israel so as to destroy Gaza. And they have every right — and, in fact, they have a duty — to protest against these kinds of policies.

AMY GOODMAN: Omer Bartov, I want to thank you so much for being with us, professor of Holocaust and genocide studies at Brown University. He’s an Israeli American scholar, described by the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum as one of the world’s leading specialists on the subject of genocide.

Next up, an Israeli airstrike on Gaza has killed the eldest daughter and baby grandson of the late Palestinian poet and academic Refaat Alareer, who himself was killed in an Israeli airstrike months ago. Back in 20 seconds.

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Months After Israel Killed Gaza Poet Refaat Alareer, His Daughter & Infant Grandson Die in Airstrike
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
APRIL 30, 2024

Transcript

An Israeli airstrike in Gaza City on Friday killed the eldest daughter and the infant grandson of the prominent Palestinian poet and past Democracy Now! guest Refaat Alareer, who himself was killed in an Israeli airstrike in December. Shaima Refaat Alareer was killed along with her husband and 2-month-old son while sheltering in the building of international relief charity Global Communities. Shaima had recently lamented on Facebook that her father never got to meet his grandson, writing, “I never imagined that I would lose you early even before you see him.” “Why is the state of Israel and its military targeting the families and relatives of those it has already assassinated and murdered?” asks Jehad Abusalim, a scholar, policy analyst and friend of Refaat Alareer and his family. “Israel seeks to eradicate, to destroy the social environment that fosters resistance and defiance. This environment produced figures like Refaat.”

Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org. I’m Amy Goodman.

We end today’s show with the tragic news that an Israeli airstrike in Gaza City Friday killed the eldest daughter and baby grandson of the prominent Palestinian poet and past Democracy Now! guest Refaat Alareer, who himself was killed in an Israeli airstrike in December.

Shaima Refaat Alareer was killed Friday along with her husband and 2-month-old son. She was a renowned illustrator in Gaza. She recently wrote a message on Facebook addressed to her late father that said, quote, “I have a beautiful news for you, I wish I could convey it to you while you are in front of me, I present to you your first grandchild. Do you know, my father, that you have become a grandfather? This is your grandson Abd al-Rahman whom I have long imagined you carrying, but I never imagined that I would lose you early even before you see him,” she wrote.

The website Electronic Intifada reports Shaima Refaat Alareer and her family were killed while sheltering in the building of Global Communities, an international relief charity.

For more, we’re joined in Washington, D.C., by Jehad Abusalim, a scholar and policy analyst from Gaza, executive director of the Jerusalem Fund. He was a friend of Refaat Alareer and is the editor of Light in Gaza: Writings Born of Fire.

Jehad, welcome back to Democracy Now! We only have a few minutes, but can you talk about this latest news, the death of Refaat Alareer’s eldest daughter, Shaima?

JEHAD ABUSALIM: Thank you for having me.

On April 26, Israel bombed the building where Shaima Refaat Alareer, her husband Muhammad Abd al-Aziz Siyam and their newborn baby, Abd al-Rahman, were sheltering in the Rimal neighborhood at the heart of Gaza City. This, of course, was a tragic loss for Refaat’s family and friends and those who love him, including, of course, his wife and children. Shaima was Refaat’s eldest daughter. She was deeply beloved by her father. And it was a tragedy.

And, of course, this tragedy raises many critical questions as to why is the state of Israel and its military targeting the families and relatives of those it has already assassinated and murdered. And as I have previously discussed on your program, by targeting poets, academics, scholars, journalists, doctors and institutional leaders, Israel aims to dismantle the societal structure of Gaza. Israel aims to make life unbearable and to make Gaza itself unlivable.

Of course, you know, despite the bombing and the killing and the mass destruction and starvation, hundreds of thousands of Palestinians continue to live and persevere in the entire Gaza Strip, but specifically in Gaza City and the north. And Shaima, Refaat’s daughter, was one of those who decided to stay in the north and endure and not leave and not give Israel the Nakba that it sought to accomplish by attacking and destroying Gaza.

So, again, Israel seeks to eradicate, to destroy the social environment that fosters resistance and defiance. This environment produced figures like Refaat, who, you know, people like him champion their dignity and national cause. And, of course, Israel’s aggressive actions and crimes know no bounds, extending even to children, mothers, fathers and newborns.

AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to ask, in this minute we have left — you talk about scholasticide. Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor published a report last month titled “Annihilation of Gaza Education: Israel is systematically erasing the entire educational system.” At least 95 academics, including dozens of professors, like Refaat Alareer, have been killed by Israel. Jehad, your final comment?

JEHAD ABUSALIM: I mean, this shows the scale of destruction of Gaza’s educational sector. As you mentioned, the Israeli military killed more than 95 university professors, hundreds of teachers and thousands of students, in what has been a devastating assault on Palestinian education. All major universities in Gaza, including the Islamic University, Al-Azhar, Al-Israa, have been destroyed.

And as students globally continue to rise and voice their protest against the genocide in Gaza, we must remember and mourn the enormous losses suffered by the educational community. And I call on the student movement to continue to honor Refaat’s memory and legacy and to pay tribute to the countless educators and students who have perished under Israel’s bombs. This is the best way to honor our colleagues and those who have carried the message of education in Gaza and unfortunately have been murdered by Israel, and to continue carrying their message forward.

AMY GOODMAN: Jehad Abusalim, again, our condolences on the death of your friend Refaat Alareer and now the death of his eldest daughter, Shaima Refaat Alareer, her 2-month-old baby boy and her husband, just killed in an Israeli strike. Jehad Abusalim is a scholar and policy analyst from Gaza. He’s executive director of the Jerusalem Fund.

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Campus Crackdown: 300+ Arrested in Police Raids on Columbia & CCNY to Clear Gaza Encampments
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
MAY 01, 2024

Transcript

New York police in full riot gear stormed Columbia University and the City College of New York Tuesday night, arresting over 300 students to break up Gaza solidarity encampments on the two campuses. The police raid began at the request of Columbia President Minouche Shafik, who has also asked the police to remain a presence on campus until at least May 17 to ensure solidarity encampments are not reestablished before the end of the term. Police also raided CUNY after the administration made a similar call for the police to enter campus. Democracy Now! was on the streets outside Columbia on Tuesday night and spoke with people who were out in support of the student protests as police were making arrests. We also speak with two Columbia University students who witnessed the police crackdown. “When the police arrived, they were extremely efficient in removing all eyewitnesses, including legal observers,” says journalism student Gillian Goodman, who has been covering the protests for weeks and who says she and others slept on campus in order to be able to continue coverage and avoid being locked out. We also hear from Cameron Jones, a Columbia College student with Jewish Voice for Peace, who responds to claims of antisemitism, saying, “There is a large anti-Zionist Jewish voice on campus, and it’s also important to recognize the difference between anti-Zionism and antisemitism.”

Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: Hundreds of students at Columbia University and City University of New York were arrested last night after hundreds of police officers, carrying shields and in full riot gear, raided Columbia to break up a Gaza Solidarity Encampment set up almost two weeks ago that has inspired similar encampments in over 40 universities across the country, including CUNY. Students at Columbia took over Hamilton Hall a day earlier, after the school began suspending students who refused to leave the Gaza Solidarity Encampment. Students renamed the building Hind’s Hall in honor of Hind Rajab, a 6-year-old Palestinian girl killed by the Israeli military in Gaza.

The police raid began after Columbia University President Minouche Shafik sent a letter to the New York City Police Department calling for the encampment and Hamilton Hall to be cleared. She wrote, quote, “I have determined that the building occupation, the encampments, and related disruptions pose a clear and present danger to persons, property, and the substantial functioning of the University,” unquote. President Shafik also asked the police to remain a presence on campus until at least May 17 — two days after graduation — to ensure, she said, that solidarity encampments are not reestablished. Columbia’s graduation is scheduled for May 15th.

Hundreds of officers entered the campus through the main gates and encircled the encampment inside last night. Police also pulled a truck outside Hamilton Hall, extended a ladder to a second-story window for a stream of officers to climb into the building.

Further uptown from Columbia, at the City College of New York, police in riot gear raided the Gaza solidarity encampment after the administration made a similar call for the police to enter campus. Scores of students and CUNY community members were arrested. Overnight, the department shared a video on social media showing officers lowering a Palestinian flag atop the city college flagpole, balling it up and throwing it to the ground before raising the American flag.

Over the past two weeks, police have swept through other campuses holding peaceful Gaza solidarity encampments across the country. Over 1,200 students and others have been arrested.

In moment, we’ll be joined by two Columbia University students who were on campus during the police raid. But first, Democracy Now! was on the streets last night outside Columbia.

AMY GOODMAN: I’m Amy Goodman from Democracy Now! We’re standing at 113th and Broadway. It’s about 10:30 at night. The riot police have lined up here, and it is a complete frozen zone from here up to Columbia University. We understand that they’ve moved in on Hamilton Hall, that the students have occupied. And we understand arrests are underway, though we haven’t seen it. There was a group of protesters here, but they say they’re going to do jail support. They’re going down to 1 Police Plaza. Let’s see if we can find them and ask them why they’re out here.

PROTESTERS: Palestine will never fall! From the sea to the river!

AMY GOODMAN: What’s your name?

JEANNIE JAY PARK: I’m Jeannie. I am an organizer with Warriors in the Garden. I am a first-generation Korean American. I am a shamed alumni of NYU. We are out here as people whose ethnic roots originate in the Global South to stand against settler colonialism, because no matter how it looks, in every form, it kills, and we will not be complicit anymore. And this is a very historic moment, where our youth in our country are leading the revolution. And it is all of our responsibilities to not put that — to not just be like, “Oh, they’re so brave,” but to be in — to have that incite something within us.

PROTESTERS: Say it clear! Say it loud! Say it clear! Say it loud! Gaza, you make us proud! Gaza, you make us proud! Gaza, you make us proud! Gaza, you make us proud!

SAM: My name is Sam. I’m an organizer, and I’m here to show support for the students. I think that I’ve been a — I’ve been pro-Palestinian my whole life, as is my family. I’m Iranian. And we have always found the liberation of Palestinian people to be essential to our liberation as Iranians and everybody’s, you know, collective liberation.

PROTESTERS: Why are you in riot gear? Why are you in riot gear? Move, cops! Get out the way! Move, cops! Get out the way! Free, free Palestine! Free, free Palestine! Free, free, free Palestine! Free, free, free Palestine!

AMY GOODMAN: We’re standing at Amsterdam and 113th Street. It’s about 10:30, 11:00 at night. Why are you here?

BROWN ALUMNUS: So, I’m a Brown University alum. And as you know, one of our own, Hisham Awartani, was shot. And also, I have a Palestinian friend who told me that for his — for speaking out on Palestine, he’s been doxxed, I mean, and he’s been kicked off campus. He’s lost his housing and food, and he has no family here. But he feels the need to speak on it, because his cousins and family members are under the rubble right now, and he can’t reach a lot of his cousins. And so, knowing that, you know, there’s not a lot of degree of separation between Hisham and I and our other colleague that also lost family members and has been doxxed and kicked off campus, this is the least that we can do to support our friends.

AMY GOODMAN: Is this why you’re wearing a mask even though we’re outside?

BROWN ALUMNUS: Absolutely. And we’re not wearing a mask because we’re scared, but we’re doing this because this is what our predecessors have told us this is the right way to protest. And this is what we need to do to protect ourselves while also speaking and standing up for what’s true.

AMY GOODMAN: So, I understand there’s an encampment at Brown, too. And there’s a slogan: “From Columbia to Brown, we won’t let Gaza down.”

BROWN ALUMNUS: Yeah.

AMY GOODMAN: Have you heard the latest from there?

BROWN ALUMNUS: So, today, actually, Brown University passed a resolution, in order to compromise with the students’ encampments, that they’re going to vote in October on divestment. So, I think that’s a big victory for the student encampments, for the 41 students who were arrested, and also for the students who were doing the hunger strike, as you may know. So, yeah, the vote — the agreeing to vote on divestment is a big step for the student organizers, and they’re very proud of it. And I think that’s the least we can do as alum to support them.

PROTESTERS: Divest! We will not stop! We will not rest! Disclose!

AMY GOODMAN: We’ve just spoken to some people who are supporting the students now. The bus of arrested students is coming through.

POLICE OFFICER 1: Back up!

AMY GOODMAN: Are these the buses of students?

POLICE OFFICER 1: The buses are coming up. Please back up. Please back up.

AMY GOODMAN: These are the arrested students?

POLICE OFFICER 1: Please back up. Thank you.

AMY GOODMAN: Are they buses of the arrested students?

POLICE OFFICER 1: I’m not sure who’s in the buses. I know the buses are leaving. Please back up.

SUPPORTERS: You make us proud! You make us proud! You make us proud! Students, you make us proud! Students, you make us proud! Students, you make us proud! Students, you make us proud!

POLICE OFFICER 2: Back up!

PROTESTER 1: Stop! Stop!

AMY GOODMAN: Watch out.

POLICE OFFICER 2: Back up! Back up! Back up!

AMY GOODMAN: OK. There looks — seems to be an arrest right now. The police have moved in, and they’re on top of someone. The police have arrested someone. People are shouting “Shame!” He’s on the ground.

PROTESTER 2: Get off of him! Get off of him! Get off of him!

PROTESTER 3: What are you going to do? Are you going to arrest me? [inaudible]

POLICE OFFICER 3: Back up! Back up! Back up!

POLICE OFFICER 4: Back up!

POLICE OFFICER 3: Back up!

POLICE OFFICER 4: Back up! Back up! Let’s go! Move! Move!

POLICE OFFICER 3: Back up!

POLICE OFFICER 4: Back up! Back up!

POLICE OFFICER 3: Back up!

AMY GOODMAN: What’s your name?

POLICE OFFICER 4: Back up! Back up!

AMY GOODMAN: What’s your name?

AMY GOODMAN: Over 230 students were arrested at and around Columbia, dozens more arrested at City College just 20 blocks further north.

When we come back, we’ll be joined by two Columbia University students who were on campus last night, and we’ll hear from our own Juan González. Fifty-six years ago yesterday, police raided Hamilton Hall. He was one of the leaders of the students at Columbia, one of the leaders of the revolt. Stay with us.

[break]

AMY GOODMAN: “People Have the Power” by Patti Smith. This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman in New York, joined by Juan González in Chicago.

Over 230 students and their allies were arrested at Columbia University last night when the Columbia president OK’d the presence of the New York Police Department and their raid of the university. Dozens of others were arrested just 20 blocks north at City College.

For more on the police raid at Columbia, we’re joined by two guests. Cameron Jones is a Columbia student with Jewish Voice for Peace. He was outside Hamilton Hall when police pushed everyone into nearby buildings and stormed the hall. Cameron is a 19-year-old urban studies major. He’s joining us here in studio. And Gillian Goodman is with us, a student at Columbia Journalism School covering Columbia’s ongoing student protests since the first days of the encampments. She joins us via video stream.

We welcome you both to Democracy Now! Gillian Goodman — no relation that we know of — Gillian, why don’t you describe what happened on campus? I mean, what’s really fascinating here is that Columbia J School, the Journalism School, overlooks the police raid. And in fact, Columbia journalism students and other students who were covering this event were told by police they’d be arrested if they didn’t stay inside. Gillian, thanks so much for joining us.

GILLIAN GOODMAN: Absolutely happy to be here.

That’s correct, Amy. And, in fact, the only reason that we were able to have access to campus, many of us in the Journalism School, is that we had slept in the building the night before. They had restricted campus to only those students in residential dorms. So, the only reason we were able to witness what we were able to witness is because we had stayed in the building.

When police arrived, they were extremely efficient in removing all eyewitnesses, including legal observers. Myself and my colleagues at the Journalism School were pushed with police batons to our backs and corralled out of the space, so we were not able to witness the arrests head on. But some journalism students were able to remain in the building to overlook the side of Hamilton Hall. But they were extremely clear and efficient that they were not to have any eyewitnesses, including the majority of press, during the time that the arrests were made.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Gillian, was there any warning beforehand or any sense that the arrests were coming?

GILLIAN GOODMAN: There had been a sense for a few hours as police gathered outside. I would say that no one knew the exact moment they were going to come in, but we knew pretty clearly within about a 30-minute window. I think there was a tremendous sense of trepidation, but also resolve, on campus that I saw from a lot of the organizers. We were also served an emergency alert from emergency management that went throughout to all Columbia students, issuing a shelter-in-place warning in the hour before the arrests happened. And so most students were corralled into their dorm by campus safety, and that was our tell that the arrests were imminent.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: We’re also joined by Cameron Jones of Jewish Voices for Peace. Cameron, what did you see last night?

CAMERON JONES: Yeah. So, I was also one of the students who was forced into a nearby building once the police arrived on the scene. And it was very clear that the university and the police did not want any witnesses to the police brutality that was going to take place. They even pushed medics and legal observers into nearby buildings, preventing them from doing their jobs.

And then we got a slew of footage from onlookers that protesters were pushed and shoved, individuals were thrown downstairs. One individual was left unconscious for a few minutes. There was also the police using Tasers on peaceful protesters and also using a smoke bomb inside occupied Hind Hall. So, it’s very clear that the police used very aggressive and very violent tactics to suppress peaceful protesters.

AMY GOODMAN: And what about you? You were outside. You didn’t occupy Hamilton Hall. You were at the encampment. Do you face suspension?

CAMERON JONES: As of now, I am not sure what the university will do. Unfortunately, the university has arbitrarily suspended dozens of students already, so I would not be surprised if I do end up facing suspension, unfortunately.

AMY GOODMAN: The response of the students to the president, although on Friday saying she would not call New York police on campus, calling in those police who raided Hamilton Hall last night?

CAMERON JONES: Yeah. So, the president is definitely acting in bad faith, I would say. She really seems to be doing anything in her power to suppress student activism on campus, and that includes bringing in violent police to violently arrest hundreds of people. And it really appears as though the president has not learned her lesson from arresting people a few weeks ago, because the students only come back with more fury and with more intensity in regards to our activism.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Cameron, I wanted to ask you about the role of the faculty. Many of the faculty condemned the last raid, or the first raid that occurred a couple of weeks ago. Were there faculty out there trying to interpose themselves between the students and the police this time?

CAMERON JONES: I did not see a substantial faculty presence, but we have had faculty very present at the encampment acting as security, and we have widespread faculty support in terms of our opinions towards the administration. Faculty is on our side in condemning what the administration has been doing.

AMY GOODMAN: And, Gillian Goodman, you have both President Shafik and New York City Mayor Adams painting the takeover of Hamilton Hall as a takeover by outside agitators. What was your sense of who was inside Hamilton Hall?

GILLIAN GOODMAN: Yes. So, I was there the night that the occupation occurred. There’s no way to know exactly who was involved, but I know firsthand that there is a large student presence. And also the thing that surprised me the most was a massive student support outside. There was a human chain, linked arm in arm, to protect the building that was 200 students strong, and those are people that I know to be students of Columbia and Barnard in the large majority. So I think that mostly this is an effort by administration to distance these actions from the students, though I know that they are deeply resolved and in support.

AMY GOODMAN: Let me ask Cameron Jones — a Columbia student has sued Columbia for creating a hostile environment against Jews. You’re with Jewish Voice for Peace. I want to turn right now to a clip. This is Republican House Speaker Mike Johnson facing heckling and boos when he came to Columbia University a few days ago calling for President Biden to call in the National Guard to bring order to the campus, where the students set up the encampment last week. He also called for Columbia President Minouche Shafik to step down. Columbia students criticized Johnson’s visit.

SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON: I am here today joining my colleagues in calling on President Shafik to resign if she cannot immediately bring order to this chaos. As speaker of the House, I am committing today that the Congress will not be silent as Jewish students are expected to run for their lives and stay home from their classes, hiding in fear.

AMY GOODMAN: If you can talk about that as a member of Jewish Voice for Peace, Cameron?

CAMERON JONES: Yeah. So, I think, as a Jewish student on campus who represents a group of dozens of Jewish individuals, I would like to note that Jewish students have been part of the protest movement on campus since October. And there have been dozens of Jewish students who have been arrested for pro-Palestine demonstrations. So I think it’s really important to recognize that there is a large anti-Zionist Jewish voice on campus, and it’s also important to recognize the difference between anti-Zionism and antisemitism. Anti-Zionism is a political ideology, while antisemitism is in regards to Judaism, which is a culture and a religion. And it’s important to know the distinction between the two. And I think oftentimes in the mainstream media and on campus, there is a conflation of the two.

And it’s really important to recognize that there has been an intense amount of hostility towards pro-Palestine protesters on campus. We have faced harassment. We have faced physical and verbal intimidation. I myself have been doxxed and have faced death threats online. I have been harassed on campus by multiple individuals.

AMY GOODMAN: And explain what you mean by “doxxed.”

CAMERON JONES: Yeah. So, I’ve had my personal information published online, including pictures, social media, my LinkedIn profile, etc., in which people can message me death threats and email me horrible information. And the university has done nothing to protect pro-Palestine voices and has been really cracking down on anyone who is standing up for Palestinian rights. And this really just shows how Columbia University is using similar tactics that the apartheid state of Israel is using to crack down on Palestinians in occupied Palestine.

AMY GOODMAN: Well, we’re going to leave it there, but I do want to ask Gillian Goodman — the president of Columbia — the president of Barnard has already had an overwhelming no-confidence vote by the faculty. President of Columbia says she has asked the police to maintain a presence on campus through May 17th, two days after graduation. What are you expecting, as we saw yesterday the campus almost completely shut down? Professors had their IDs canceled. Students couldn’t, unless they lived right there on the campus, get in.

GILLIAN GOODMAN: Yes, I think those actions shattered a sense that there is free and open access to our own resources on our own campus, the ways that they were really effectively able to bar anyone from that. I think there’s really profound disappointment and anger coming from Shafik’s decision to retain a police presence on campus, as that has consistently been an ask, I think, from all sides, is to remove the police presence. And that is often what creates a threat and intimidation of violence, much more so than the protests on campus. I watched the police at around 2 a.m. load the encampment into a trash-compacting dumpster, and I watched the community guidelines get crushed. And I think that, to me, was the perfect moment of seeing what that effect can be of having that police presence on campus.

AMY GOODMAN: Gillian Goodman, a Columbia Journalism School student covering Columbia’s ongoing student protests since the first days of the encampments, and Cameron Jones, Columbia College student with Jewish Voice for Peace, we thank you so much for being with us.

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Juan González, Veteran of '68 Columbia Strike, Condemns University Leaders' Silence on Gaza Slaughter
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
MAY 01, 2024

Transcript

Tuesday’s raid on Columbia University came 56 years to the day that police raided Hamilton Hall, arresting 700 students protesting racism and the Vietnam War. Democracy Now! co-host Juan González, who was a student leader at the historic 1968 protest, says the violent crackdown on Columbia University and other campuses across the United States has refocused national attention on “an unjust war,” carried out by Israel with U.S. backing. “No commencement in America will occur in the next month where the war in Gaza is not a burning issue,” he says. He adds that the more diverse makeup of the protests today — led primarily by Palestinian, Muslim and Arab students — may have made school officials and police “much more willing to crack down” than when it was a mostly white protest movement.

AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org. I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan González. And it’s Juan we’re going to turn to next.

The massive police raid on Columbia University last night came 56 years to the day after a similar raid by police quashing an occupation, or attempting to, of Hamilton Hall by students protesting racism and the Vietnam War. A week into the historic 1968 student strike, on April 30th, New York City police stormed the campus. Hundreds of students were injured, 700 arrested. The campus newspaper the Columbia Spectator’s headline read, in part, “Violent Solution Follows Failure at Negotiations.”

Juan, you were there. Juan González, you were a leader of the Columbia revolt. You were one of the founders of the New York chapter of Young Lords. Yesterday we played archival clips of you and the other students taking over Hamilton Hall. What were your thoughts as you watched what happened with the student takeover and then the police raid?

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Well, Amy, I think the similarities are really amazing in terms of the persistence of these students, the issues around which they were fighting, this opposition to a genocidal war occurring in Gaza.

And, you know, I was struck especially by the stands of these university presidents, not only at Columbia and Barnard, but also across the country. You know, the great Chris Hedges, I think, said it best, when he talked recently about the moral bankruptcy of these presidents of these universities who are condemning disruptions of the business as usual at the universities, while every single president of an American university has been silent about the massive destruction of universities in Gaza and of high schools and schools in Gaza by the Israeli army. They are silent about what is occurring in education in another country, another part of the world, financed by the United States.

So, I think that the importance to me in terms of the similarities are the students understand that at times you must disrupt business as usual to focus the attention of the public on a glaring injustice. And I think that’s exactly what they’ve been able to do. The entire country today knows what divestment means, what divestment means from the Israeli government and the Israeli military, whereas, before, this issue was on the margins of political debate. No commencement in America will occur in the next month where the war in Gaza is not a burning issue, either outside with the protesters or inside in the speeches and presentations. So I think that the students have managed to focus the entire attention of the country on an unjust war.

I don’t see how President Shafik survives. Many of these presidents across the country are going to be known not for whatever they accomplished previously, but they are going to be known throughout the rest of their lives as being the people who brought the police in to crush students who were maintaining a moral position of opposition to genocide.

So, I think the students are going to carry — those who were arrested are going to carry this badge of courage, as opposed to this profile of cowardice of the university presidents that dare to try to suspend or expel them. And the students’ lives have been changed forever — and, I think, for the best — in terms of the importance of dissent and opposition to injustice.

AMY GOODMAN: Juan, I wanted to go back to 1968, the student strike, students occupying five buildings, including the president’s office in Low Library, barricading themselves inside for days, students protesting Columbia’s ties to military research and plans to build a university gymnasium in a public park in Harlem. They called it Gym — G-Y-M — Crow. I want to go to a clip of you from the Pacifica Radio Archives, then a Columbia student, speaking right — it was before the raid, during the strike.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Now we want to go into the dorms with all of you, with some of you who may not — who may not agree with a lot of what we’ve been saying here, who have questions, who support us, who want to know more. Let’s go to the dorms. Let’s talk quietly, in small groups. We’ll be there, and everyone in Livingston — in Livingston lobby, in Furnald lobby, in Carman lobby. We’ll be there, and we’ll talk about the issues involved, and we’ll talk about where this country is going and where this university is going and what it’s doing in the society and what we would like it to do and what we would — and how we would like to exchange with you our ideas over it. Come join us now.

AMY GOODMAN: So, that is Democracy Now! co-host Juan González when he was a student at Columbia University in 1968. It was before the police raid. Juan, tell us what happened after the police raid of Hamilton Hall, as they did last night of Hamilton Hall, 700 arrests. In fact, Juan, you only recently graduated from Columbia. This is the 56th anniversary. What was it, 50 years later, a dean at Columbia said, “Please, we need you as a graduate”?

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: No, actually, it was 30 years later they gave me my degree, because I was a senior then. I was supposed to graduate that year. And, you know, amazingly, being suspended from college is not a big deal. You know, it only delays your career a little bit, and I think you gain more sometimes if you were suspended for the right reason. So I don’t think that that’s a big issue.

But I want to raise something else about these protests that I think people — I’ve seen little attention to. Back in the '60s, most of the student protests were led either by Black students who were in Black student organizations or white students. I was one of the few Latinos at Columbia at the time. And today, these student protests are multiracial and largely led by Palestinian and Muslim and Arab students. This is a marked change in the actual composition of the American university that we're seeing in terms of the leadership of these movements. And I think the willingness of these administrations to crack down so fiercely against this protest is, to some degree, they find it easier to crack down on Black and Brown and multiracial students than they did back then, when it was largely a white student population. And they always figured out a way to rescind the suspensions or get the students their degrees, because they saw them as part of them. Now, I think, they’re seeing these student protests as part of the other, and they are much more willing to crack down than they have been in the past. And I think it’s important to raise that and to understand what is going on in terms of the changing demographics of the American college student population.

AMY GOODMAN: Well, Juan, thanks so much for being with us today and co-hosting. Juan González, student leader of the 1968 Columbia revolt, one of the leading journalists today in the United States.

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USC Grad Student Union Files Unfair Labor Practice Charge Against University over Arrests
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
MAY 01, 2024

Transcript

As protests continue on campuses across North America, we go to the University of Southern California, where the union representing about 3,000 graduate student workers at USC has filed an unfair labor practice charge against the school to end campus militarization and drop charges against students and faculty. The “rampant violence that they inflicted on our workers” violates the National Labor Relations Act, says Margaret Davis, president of UAW Local 872. “It was a clear act of retaliation because people were engaging in pro-Palestinian free speech, which they have a right to.”

Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now! I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan González.

Today is May Day. As we continue our coverage of Palestine solidarity protests on campuses nationwide, we go to USC, University of Southern California, where graduate student workers and some 3,000 research assistants, teaching assistants and assistant lecturers recently won their first-ever union contract. This week, the union filed an unfair labor practice charge to end campus militarization and to drop charges against students and faculty taking part in the protests.

We’re joined in Los Angeles by Margaret Davis, president of the UAW Local 872, sociology Ph.D. candidate, teaching assistant at USC.

Welcome to Democracy Now! Can you talk about the unfair labor practice charge with the National Labor Relations Board that your union has filed against the university, and the six violations you allege must be resolved, as well as your union victory?

MARGARET DAVIS: Yeah, absolutely. So, we filed an unfair labor practice with the university within the last week because of, you know, the rampant violence that they inflicted on our workers while they were engaging in peaceful protest, and we think that’s a violation of the National Labor Relations Act, because it unilaterally changes workplace policies by bringing in, you know, the Los Angeles Police Department to summon workers from their workplace. They also instituted a number of new workplace practices in requiring that people show IDs to enter campus and closing entrances to campuses that are closest to our Metro stations on campus. And we also think that it was a clear act of retaliation because people were engaging in pro-Palestinian free speech, which they have a right to. So, we think that these are clear violations of the National Labor Relations Act.

And, you know, this is just one way that we can enforce our protections that we won in our, yeah, first-ever union contract for research assistants, teaching assistants and assistant lecturers at the University of Southern California. That was a huge victory for us and for the labor movement in Southern California overall. You know, we really began that process a few years ago, when I entered my Ph.D. It was in 2020, and so it was a time when people were really coming to realize how precarious our condition was as workers in this really crazy world historical moment. And so, there were a lot of conversations on campus about, you know, the low wages that we experience, how difficult in particular it is for parents at our university to exist as workers, and how harassment and discrimination was most targeted towards international student workers on our campus.

And so we really began to organize and partnered with UAW. We had hundreds of one-to-one conversations with co-workers on campus to really collectivize and form a strong organizing committee that was representative across campus, and, yeah, as of last semester, won our first union contract, that guarantees for the first time in USC’s history annual wage increases every year, that guarantees stronger protections against harassment and discrimination, institutes child care, independent healthcare funds for parents. And so, we see the enforcement of those rights and those improved benefits as certainly connected to the fight that’s on the ground now to free Palestine and end the genocide in Gaza.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Margaret, you were on campus last week when over 93 USC students and community members, including five members of your union, were arrested. Can you talk about what you witnessed and how students in class are dealing with the encampment?

MARGARET DAVIS: Yeah, absolutely. So, I was there on Wednesday. And, you know, the encampment is organized by a really talented group of coalition partners who are really showing their power right now. They are in negotiations with the university, and they’re showing that these direct actions are working, in the face of very significant challenges.

On the ground Wednesday, you know, what was a very peaceful and joyous and, you know, showing-a-lot-of-resistance protest in the face of really, like, challenging and horrific things going on in Gaza was met with intense police violence. And so, you know, I witnessed not only, like, my colleagues and fellow union members being beaten and arrested by the Los Angeles Police Department, but, you know, our union also was very active in making sure that we could get our members out to that if they wanted to. And so, we were actually holding a monthly membership meeting that day and moved it to be close to the encampment so that folks could participate in that, if they wanted to and they wanted to participate in our union meeting. And so, you know, the union was actively endorsing this, and we have been doing so since October, putting out statements for, you know, an end to the genocide in Gaza. And it was really wild to see what happened on campus as a result of people expressing their rights.

And it was also a really telling moment for what, you know, building the collective power of our union has accomplished. We were able to institute really quick jail support measures for our own union members who were arrested. We were able to be there for them at the end of the night, when they had really experienced something quite horrific. And so, it was, you know, a really challenging moment, but the solidarity and direct action of the encampment is really working and putting pressure on the university —

AMY GOODMAN: Margaret Davis —

MARGARET DAVIS: — to meet with them and come to a negotiation.

AMY GOODMAN: — we want to thank you so much for being with us, Ph.D. candidate, president of UAW Local 872 at the University of Southern California. And the national UAW, United Auto Workers, has called for a ceasefire in Gaza. Also, the mainstage graduation has been canceled at USC, after USC canceled the valedictory address of the valedictorian, Asna Tabassum, and then canceled the speeches of the honorary people who are receiving degrees.

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Reed Brody: U.S. Hypocrisy Laid Bare as Biden Admin Claims ICC Can’t Prosecute Israel for War Crimes
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
MAY 01, 2024

Transcript

The Biden administration is claiming the International Criminal Court has no jurisdiction to charge Israeli officials for war crimes. This comes after rumors that the ICC may be close to issuing arrest warrants for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and other Israeli officials over possible crimes in Gaza. The International Court of Justice has rejected a request by Nicaragua to order Germany to halt exporting arms to Israel, but the court declined to throw out the case. For more, we speak with human rights attorney and war crimes prosecutor Reed Brody, who says ICC charges would be a “huge” development. “Since Nuremberg, no international tribunal has issued an arrest warrant for a Western official. For decades, we’ve had this double standard where international justice has only been effective for crimes committed by leaders of developing countries or by enemies of the U.S. like Vladimir Putin,” says Brody.

AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org. I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan González.

Prosecutors from the International Criminal Court have interviewed staff from Gaza’s two biggest hospitals, according to Reuters, in what’s being described as the first confirmation that ICC investigators are speaking to medics about possible war crimes committed by Israel in Gaza. Palestinian officials have demanded investigations after hundreds of bodies were exhumed in mass graves at Nasser and Shifa Hospital following Israeli raids on the medical centers.

On Tuesday, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu responded to news the ICC may be close to issuing arrest warrants for him and other Israeli officials.

PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU: The International Criminal Court in The Hague is contemplating issuing arrest warrants against senior Israeli government and military officials as war criminals. This would be an outrage of historic proportions.

AMY GOODMAN: This comes as the International Court of Justice has rejected a request by Nicaragua to order Germany to halt exporting arms to Israel, but the ICJ declined to throw the case out entirely. Nicaragua has accused Germany of violating the Genocide Convention by providing military and financial aid to Israel.

For more, we go to Reed Brody, a war crimes prosecutor, author of To Catch a Dictator: The Pursuit and Trial of Hissène Habré. He’s joining us from Barcelona, Spain.

Reed, can you first talk about this possibility that Prime Minister Netanyahu and others may be charged by the International Criminal Court, and the U.S. saying that the International Criminal Court doesn’t have the jurisdiction to do this?

REED BRODY: Well, of course, this would be huge, Amy. The International Criminal Court has never issued an arrest warrant for a Western official. Indeed, since Nuremburg, no international tribunal has issued an arrest warrant for a Western official. For decades, we’ve had this double standard where international justice has only been effective for crimes committed by leaders of developing countries or by enemies of the U.S. like Vladimir Putin.

We don’t know if this is true, but this would be a huge red line. I mean, you know, the Palestinians have been — and Raji Sourani has been on your show a number of times — have been fighting for 15 years to bring the ICC’s attention to alleged Israeli war crimes, back in — including illegal settlements in the West Bank. And the ICC, under three successive prosecutors, has given this slow walk to those complaints. And it was always assumed that this prosecutor, Karim Khan, a British barrister who came in with American support, was very reticent, would never actually cross that red line and indict an Israeli official. But I think the overwhelming evidence of atrocities, the disproportionate attacks, the indiscriminate attacks, the collective punishment of the people of Gaza, the international condemnation, and, frankly, also the genocide case brought by South Africa at the other court in The Hague, the ICJ, that resulted in a ruling by the ICJ essentially that Israel had a case to answer, these have all made it untenable now for the ICC not to act.

Now, of course, the U.S. position, as you’ve said, is that the ICC does not have jurisdiction because Israel has not ratified the ICC treaty. This is the historic position that the U.S. argued 25 years ago when we were drafting the ICC statute in Rome. But the U.S. was overwhelmingly outvoted, and the ICC has jurisdiction over nationals of countries that have ratified, so-called state parties, but also it has jurisdiction over crimes committed on the territory of states that have given authorization. And so, you know, when — but we saw under the previous ICC prosecutor, when she opened investigations into Afghanistan that potentially implicated American war crimes, when she finally opened an investigation into Israel-Palestine, that the Trump administration sanctioned the ICC for its temerity in investigating an act by officials of non-state parties. And even when those sanctions were lifted by the Biden administration, the U.S. said, “We don’t believe the ICC has jurisdiction over nationals of non-state parties.” But then Russia invaded Ukraine, and Russia began committing massive war crimes. And then, when the ICC — and, of course, Russia is also a non-state party. And when the ICC began to investigate Russia and issued an arrest warrant for Vladimir Putin, the U.S. celebrated that. So, now for the U.S. to go back and say, “Well, we loved it when you did it with Putin, but we think you’re crossing a red line when you do it with Israel,” of course, that’s just hypocrisy.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Reed, I wanted to ask you — one of the Israeli officials who spoke to The New York Times said that the possibility of the court issuing arrest warrants has been guiding Israeli decision-making in recent weeks. What’s the significance of this?

REED BRODY: Well, it shows, actually, that Israel is worried about this. Obviously, they can’t undo crimes that have already been committed. But many people say, “Well, you know, what’s the big deal? I mean, Netanyahu — I mean, in fact, the ICC, in 20 years, has never actually got its hands on, prosecuted and convicted any state official anywhere.” But the fact is that if the ICC issues this arrest warrant — and the furious diplomatic maneuvering that’s going on suggests that it may be imminent — of course, it represents, first of all, a profound moral rebuke for Israeli actions. It makes it impossible for people to say that Israel’s actions comport with the law. It also means that Benjamin Netanyahu could never — if he’s one of the people indicted, could never travel to an ICC state party for the rest of his life. He could never go to Europe. But it also — you know, it also suggests that, ultimately, any Israeli official involved in these kinds of activities, down the line, could potentially also be subject to an ICC investigation and indictment. So, it really, hopefully, would have not only a protective effect on the past, but a dissuasive effect on Israel’s actions in the future.

AMY GOODMAN: Reed Brody, I wanted to ask you about what’s coming up this summer. We’re speaking to you in Barcelona. You know, of course, Columbia just allowed police to raid the campus. Hundreds of students have been arrested. We’re moving into yet another Chicago Democratic convention. You wrote your college thesis on choosing — what happens when a presidential candidate drops out at the last minute and what that means. Can you make some parallels from ’68 to today?

REED BRODY: Well, sure. I mean, in 1968, we saw that the Democrats in Chicago nominated Hubert Humphrey, who was Lyndon Johnson’s vice president and a pro-war candidate, even though he had never won any presidential primary, even though Robert F. Kennedy, before he was assassinated, and Eugene McCarthy had garnered all the votes. And so you had this massive protest against a Democratic candidate who was pursuing a very unpopular war. And so, the whole primary, the whole Democratic selection process, was renovated, and so that you now have primaries and caucuses that result in pledged delegates.

The unfortunate, for the moment, result of that is that Joe Biden has now accumulated enough pledged delegates to the Democratic convention, so that no matter how unpopular he is among Democrats, no matter how unpopular he is as a candidate, he has enough delegates to secure the nomination. The only way that he can really be removed as the Democratic candidate is if he were to step down, in which case all of the delegates who are pledged to vote for him on the first ballot would then be released, and you’d have other candidates who could step in.

AMY GOODMAN: Well, we’re going to leave it there, but I want to thank you for being with us. Reed Brody is a war crimes prosecutor and author of To Catch a Dictator: The Pursuit and Trial of Hissène Habré. We’re going to continue the conversation and post it online at democracynow.org and also talk about the ICJ decision, the International Court of Justice.