‘Crook’: Anxious Trumpworld Preps For ‘Worst-Case’ As Star GOP Lawyer Says Trump Will Be Indicted
by Ari Melber
Jun 30, 2022
Hutchinson’s bombshell testimony before the Jan. 6 committee, Donald Trump’s top lawyer during the insurrection, Pat Cipollone, has been subpoenaed by the House panel. Pat Cipollone had warned Trump aides of possible crimes regarding the Jan. 6 insurrection. Meanwhile, Trump is on defense, denying Hutchinson’s grave claims as some MAGA vets turn on him. MSNBC’s Ari Melber reports on the escalating investigation.
WE ARE TRACKING NEWS IN THE
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INSURRECTION PROBE IF FURTHER
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FALLOUT AND CRACKS AFTER
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BLOCKBUSTER TESTIMONY AGAINST
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TRUMP HAS REALLY RICOCHETED
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AROUND THE NATION.
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THE TESTIMONY LINKED TRUMP TO
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THE VIOLENCE OF THAT COUP
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ATTEMPTS, TURBO CHARGING
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TRUMP-WORLD ANXIETIES AS THEY
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PREP FOR EVEN WORST-CASE
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SCENARIOS AND THERE ARE MORE AND
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MORE DOMINOS FALLING ON THE
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RIGHT PAUSE BECAUSE OF THE POWER
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OF THIS FACTUAL EVIDENCE.
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TAKE THE REPUBLICAN PROSECUTOR
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WE HAVE CITED BEFORE, ANDREW
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McCARTHY.
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A FOX-NEWS FAVORITE, WHO WROTE A
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WHOLE BOOK DEFENDING TRUMP IN
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THE MUELLER PROBE, AND ACCUSING
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OTHERS OF PUSHING THE REAL
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COLLUSION, WHICH IS ONE REASON
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HE IS ON FOX QUITE A BIT AND HAS
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A HUGE CONSERVATIVE LEGAL
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FOLLOWING.
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HE WAS ALSO APPOINTEE IN THE
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF YORK UNDER
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RUDY GIULIANI HIMSELF, SO HE IS
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A REAGAN' APPOINTEE AND THAT
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DOJ.
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BUT HE IS ALSO SOMEONE WHO --
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AND YOU SEE HIS FACE ON THE
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SCREEN YOU MAY RECOGNIZE HIM
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BECAUSE HE IS ON FOX -- HE IS
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SOMEONE WHO SAYS HE ALSO TRIES
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TO DEAL WITH LEGAL ANALYSIS.
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PERHAPS, IT IS A MORE CONFIDENT
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VARIETY.
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HE CLEARLY WAS IN THE REAGAN
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REVOLUTION BUT HE IS RESPOND TO
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THE EVIDENCE.
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HE SAYS WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE
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EVIDENCE, AS A CRIMINAL-LEGAL
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MATTER, IT IS DEVASTATING
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AGAINST TRUMP, AND THAT THE NEW
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EVIDENCE IN THAT HEARING MAKES A
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BIG DIFFERENCE.
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HE IS SAYING THIS IN PUBLIC AND
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THIS WEEK, HE IS NOW EMPHASIZING
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THAT REALLY AS FAR AS HE IS
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CONCERNED FOR THE FIRST TIME,
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THERE IS NOW DIRECT EVIDENCE
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SHOWING TRUMP COMMITTED CRIMES,
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AND BACKED VIOLENCE.
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WE WILLLET YOU HEAR IT FOR
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YOURSELF.
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>> TRUMP WAS CLEARLY AWARE JUST
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MOMENTS BEFORE HE TOOK THE
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PODIUM THAT YOU HAD A MOB OF
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HEAVILY-ARMED PEOPLE.
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THE CRITICAL THINGS HE SAYS
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THERE ARE THE THEY ARE NOT HERE
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TO HURT ME, WHICH MEAN --
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IMPLIES THAT, IN HIS MIND, HE
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KNOWS THEY ARE HERE TO HURT
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SOMEONE.
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AND THE SECOND THING HE SAYS IF
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THEY CAN COME IN, THEY CAN HEAR
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ME AND THEN THEY CAN MARCH TO
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THE CAPITOL.
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SO, HE IS VERY AWARE THAT YOU
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HAVE A MOB THAT'S ARMED TO THE
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TEETH, THAT HE IS PLANNING TO --
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TO ENCOURAGE TO -- TO MARCH ON
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THE CAPITOL.
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THAT KNOWLEDGE -- UM -- OPENS UP
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THE POSSIBILITY THAT YOU COULD
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PROSECUTE FOR AIDING AND
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ABETTING THE INTIMIDATION OF
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FEDERAL OFFICIALS, WHICH IS A
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PRETTY SERIOUS.
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CRIME.
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>> DO YOU EXPECT WE ARE GOING TO
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SEE TRUMP PROSECUTED BY THE
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JUSTICE DEPARTMENT ON -- ON ANY
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OF THESE CHARGES?
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>> I DO NOW, YEAH.
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>> I DO NOW.
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THAT'S JUST THREE WORDS.
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I GAVE YOU HIS CREDENTIALS.
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HE IS SAYING WHAT HE THINKS WILL
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HAPPEN.
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BASED ON THE EVIDENCE.
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HE DOES THINK THERE IS A CASE TO
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INDICT DONALD TRUMP, AND HE DOES
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THINK IT IS NOW PASSED THE LINE
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FROM DEBATABLE EVIDENCE TO
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OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE OF A
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VIOLENT FELONY WHICH IS SERIOUS,
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THAT'S TRUE.
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AND THAT LAST WORD, "NOW," IT
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SPEAKS TO WHAT EVERYONE IS
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WONDERING ABOUT THESE
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INSURRECTION HEARINGS.
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ABOUT THIS DIFFICULT INTERBRANCH
3:18
PROCESS.
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THE NOW IS THAT THE EVIDENCE HAS
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PASSED A CERTAIN POINT.
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AND I WILL JUST SAY ON A
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PERSONAL NOTE, MR. McCARTHY, A
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LAWYER WHO TALKS ACT THESE
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ISSUE, REPORTS ON THEM, AND
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ANALYZES THEM ON TV, AS DO I,
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THAT NIGHT OF THE HEARING WHEN I
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WAS SITTING THERE, HERE ON MSNBC
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IN OUR COVERAGE FOR YOU WITH
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RACHEL AND OUR WHOLE TEAM, I
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SAID THAT WAS A SAD DAY.
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WE MARKED THAT AS A SAD DAY
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BECAUSE THE OVERWHELMING
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EVIDENCE SHOWED THIS CRIMINAL
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INTENT AND ACTION AND ILLEGAL
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ORDER BY THE PRESIDENT.
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AND I WILL REMIND YOU WHEN I
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SAID THEN.
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IT'S SAD BECAUSE, HAD YOU GET TO
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THAT POINT, THAT IS A SAD THING
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FOR THE COUNTRY.
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AND IF A FORMER PRESIDENT HAS TO
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BE CHARGED BECAUSE THAT IS HAS
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THE EVIDENCE SHOWS, THAT'S GRAVE
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AND SERIOUS.
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AND I SAID THAT IF A FORMER
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PRESIDENT ACTS THAT WAY, THAT
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THE EVIDENCE IS THAT CLEAR AND
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IS NOT CHARGED, THAT IS ALSO
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SAD.
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BECAUSE ULTIMATELY, THIS IS
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ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED AND WHAT THE
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UNITED STATES OR THIS JUSTICE
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DEPARTMENT WILL DECIDE TO DO
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ABOUT IT, WHEN THERE ARE NO GOOD
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OPTIONS BECAUSE WHEN INCUMBENT
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PRESIDENTS DO WHAT THAT REAGAN'
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APPOINTEE JUST DESCRIBED, WHEN
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THEY MENACE FEDERAL OFFICIALS,
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WHEN THEY OPENLY ENCOURAGE
4:34
VIOLENCE, ISSUE ILLEGAL ORDERS
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TO VIOLENCE, WHEN THEY ATTEMPT A
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COUP, WHETHER PHYSICALLY OR
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VERBALLY, DEMAND TO GO DOWN TO
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THE CAPITOL.
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THAT IS NOT IN DOUBT.
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TO GO HELP AND JOIN ARMED
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SUPPORTERS.
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KRAE, THAT IS A SAD DAY AND
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THAT'S NOW WHAT HE IS BEEN
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EXPOSED AND THAT WAS NOT TO BE
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CLEAR/PROVEN -- THE VIOLENT
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PART, THE ARMED PART, WITH
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REGARD TO DONALD TRUMP'S MIND
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STATE, HIS MENS REA WAS NOT
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PROVEN BEFORE THESE HEARINGS
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BEGAN.
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NOW, THAT IS McCARTHY, AN
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INDEPENDENT-CONSERVATIVE LAWYER.
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THEN YOU HAVE DONALD TRUMP'S OWN
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LAWYERS ASK YOU CAN OFTEN TRACK
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YOU HOWE BAD IT IS GOING BY HOW
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THEY ARE DOING.
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GIULIANI HAVING HIS LICENSE
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SUSPENDED TO JOHN EASTMAN HAVING
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HIS PHONE SEIZED AND PAT-DOWN BY
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FEDERAL AGENTS.
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YOU SEE HIM THERE, THE PLOTTER
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HIS HANDS IN THE AIR.
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HE IS URN THE CONTROL OF FEDERAL
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AGENTS HOR DOING A FORCIBLE,
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LAWFUL PAT DOWN AND THEY TOOK
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HIS PHONE.
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WE HAVE MORE ON THAT STORY
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TONIGHT.
5:34
SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN OVER
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SHADOWED BY THE HEARINGS.
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AND NOW, WE HAVE THIS
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DEVELOPMENT THAT CONGRESS HAS
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HAD IT WITH DONALD TRUMP'S
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GOVERNMENT LAWYER SERVING DURING
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THE INSURRECTION, WHITE HOUSE
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COUNSEL PAT CIPOLLONE.
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LIZ SHANE KRI HAD BEEN PUBLICLY
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PLEADING AND WARNING HIM TO
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COOPERATE.
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HE IS A LAWYER.
5:52
HE KNOWS HE HAS A LAWFUL
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OBLIGATION HERE BUT HE DID NOT.
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NOW, HE IS FACING THIS NEW
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SUBPOENA.
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AND THERE IS AN OLD SAYING --
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HOW MANY LAWYERS YOU GOT?
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A LOT?
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IT'S NOT A GOOD SIGN WHEN YOU
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HAVE TOO MANY LAWYERS.
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LET ALONE, WHEN YOUR LAWYERS
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NEED LAWYERS.
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OR WHEN YOUR LAWYERS NEED,
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SPECIFICALLY, CRIMINAL-DEFENSE
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LAWYERS.
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WELL, WE KNOW GIULIANI NEEDS HIS
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OWN LAWYER.
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EASTMAN SPECIFICALLY NEED
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CRIMINAL LAWYERS.
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I SHOWED YOU ONE JUST NOW.
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AND TONIGHT, I CAN TELL YOU
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CIPOLLONE WILL NEED A LAWYER TO
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AT LEAST HANDLE THIS NEW
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SUBPOENA CLASH, FOR STARTERS.
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AND IF YOU WANT TO SAY, OKAY,
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HOW DOES THIS TIE TO WHAT DEPD
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THIS WEEK?
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WELL, THE STAR WITNESS WAS NOT
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ONLY IMPLICATING WHAT ANDREW
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McCARTHY SAYS ARE INDICTABLE
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OFFENSES COMMITTED BY DONALD
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TRUMP.
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THE STAR WITNESS ALSO RECOUNTED
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MR. CIPOLLONES, AT TIMES,
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PIVOTAL ROLE.
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>> ON JANUARY 3rd, MR. CIPOLLONE
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HAD APPROACHED ME.
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MR. CIPOLLONE AND I HAD A BRIEF,
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PRIVATE CONVERSATION WHERE HE
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SAID TO ME WE NEED TO MAKE SURE
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THAT THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN.
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THIS WOULD BE A LEGALLY TERRIBLE
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IDEA FOR US.
7:08
MR. CIPOLLONE SAID SOMETHING TO
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THE EFFECT OF PLEASE MAKE SURE
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WE DON'T GO UP TO THE CAPITOL,
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CASSIDY.
7:20
>> BARRELING DOWN THE HALLWAY
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TOWARD OUR OFFICE.
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PAT WAS CONCERNED IT WOULD LOOK
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LIKE WE ARE OBSTRUCTING JUSTICE.
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FOR OBSTRUCTING THE ELECTORAL
7:24
COLLEGE COUNT.
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>> THAT LAST QUOTE IS WHAT SHE
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SAYS CIPOLLONE TOLD HER ABOUT
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TWO CRIMES HE WAS WORRIED THAT
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WERE IN PROGRESS BY TRUMP
7:35
OFFICIALS.
7:36
AND THAT'S WHAT HE TOLD HER.
7:38
YOU MAY HAVE HEARD THIS THING
7:40
CROPPING UP ON THE RIGHT WHERE
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SOME FOLKS WHO ARE SIFRM THETIC
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TO TRUMP WILL SAY SOME OF THIS
7:46
IS HEARSAY.
7:47
TWO POINTS ON THAT.
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ONE, AS AUDIO LEGAL MATTER, SOME
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OF THIS IS HEARSAY.
7:50
BUT THIS IS NOT A CRIMINAL YET.
7:52
IF FOLKS ARE INDICTED FOR THOSE
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TYPE OF OFFENSES, THEN YOU DEAL
7:55
OF THE HEARSAY RULES.
7:57
TWO, THE REASON THE CIPOLLONE'
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TESTIMONY IS CURRENTLY HEARSAY
8:03
IS BECAUSE OF ONE PERSON -- NOT
8:05
HER, NOT THE STAR WITNESS JUST
8:06
HEARD, NOT THE OTHER WITNESSES,
8:08
NOT THE COMMITTEE, THE ONLY
8:10
REASON IT IS ALLEGEDLY HEARSAY
8:11
IS BECAUSE MR. CIPOLLONE HAS NOT
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COME IN TO TESTIFY FULLY ON THE
8:16
RECORD ACCORDING TO THE
8:18
COMMITTEE.
8:19
AGAIN GIVEN DAY HE OR MIKE PENCE
8:25
OR ANYONE ELSE WHO WANTS TO
8:26
ADDRESS SO-CALLED HEARSAY CAN
8:26
STAND UP, SHOW A LITTLE BIT OF
8:27
COURAGE AS MUCH AS ALL THEIR
8:30
OTHER MORE JUNIOR AIDES HAVE AND
8:32
ELIMINATE THE HEARSAY AND TALK
8:32
AND COOPERATE.
8:33
NOW, IN FAIRNESS, I WANT TO BE
8:34
CLEAR WITH YOU.
8:36
CIPOLLONE IS NOT IN THAT
8:37
CATEGORY OF THE BANNONS OR
8:40
NAVARROS WHO HAVE JUST OPINION
8:43
COMPLETELY DEFIANT.
8:43
HE DID TAKE MEASURES.
8:45
PREVIOUSLY HAD A MEETING WITH
8:46
THE COMMITTEE BUT NOT UNDER
8:48
OATH.
8:48
HE THEN REFUSED TO TESTIFY
8:50
PUBLICLY H REQUESTED.
8:51
AND NOW, WITH THE SUBPOENA, THAT
8:52
IS MORE HEAT ON HIM ASK THERE IS
8:54
A SOURCE SAYING HE MIGHT
8:58
CONSIDER SITTING FOR TRANSCRIBED
8:59
TESTIMONY.
9:00
SO HE IS NOT IN THE
9:00
TOTAL-DEFIANCE CAMP, NOR IS HE
9:01
IN THE COOPERATION CAMP.
9:02
WILL THE SUBPOENA PRESS HIM?
9:03
WELL, IT IS BRAND NEW AND WE'LL
9:05
FIND OUT.
9:07
>>> MEANWHILE, DONALD TRUMP
9:08
SEEING SOME CRACKS AMONG HIS OWN
9:11
FORMER AIDES, LAWYER, AND
9:13
SUPPORTERS ASK HE IS NOT TURNING
9:14
TO FOX NEWS WHICH SHAZ FEATURED
9:16
SOME OF THE COVERAGE OF THESE
9:17
DAMNING FACTS.
9:18
INSTEAD, HE ACTUALLY ENT WITH
9:20
OUT TO NEWS MAX, NEW THIS WEEK,
9:21
TO DENY THE ALLEGATION, THE KEY
9:24
ONE THAT HE KNEW PEOPLER WITH
9:24
ARMED AND THEN TO ATTACK, AGAIN,
9:27
YET ANOTHER TRUMP AIDE WHO HAS
9:28
BEEN TESTIFYING UNDER OATH WITH
9:32
AD HOMINEM PERSONAL ATTACKS
9:33
AGAINST HER.
9:34
SO TAKE IT ALL TOGETHER AND WHAT
9:35
DO YOU SEE COMING IN VIEW
9:38
?
9:38
THIS IS NOT THE SIGN OF SOME
9:40
RANDOM KIND OF WASHINGTON
9:43
PROCESS THAT IS JUST WINDING
9:45
DOWN.
9:45
COMMITTEE IS NOT ACTING LIKE
9:47
THAT.
9:47
WITNESS AREN'T ACTING LIKE THAT.
9:48
THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT IS NOT
9:50
ACTING LIKE THAT AS IT SEIZES
9:52
PHONES AND RAIDS HOME.
9:52
AND INTERESTINGLY, NOT EVEN
9:57
DONALD TRUMP, HE IS NOT ACTING
9:59
LIKE THAT.
10:00
IT WOULD APPEAR THAT THE BINDING
10:03
AND SERIOUS EVIDENCE THAT'S BEEN
10:04
SUBMITTED HERE ON THE RECORD,
10:06
THAT IS