Freedom Caucus Chair Scott Perry’s Work To Overturn 2020 Election Included A ‘Cyber Team’ And An Italian Job
by Hunter Walker and Josh Kovensky
December 12, 2022 6:48 p.m.
It had been one week since the 2020 presidential election and three days since news outlets called the race, and Rep. Scott Perry (R-PA) was frantically working to reverse President Trump’s loss.
Perry had an aggressive plan. Based on the text log obtained by TPM, Perry wrote Trump White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows about his efforts to set up a “cyber team.” It would seize voting machines around the country and put them under “lock and key.”
Scott Perry
Mark, these are instructions are from the cyber forensic team. Please ensure widest dissemination and action. Plz tell every state senior that they need to: 1. Preserve the specific voting machines (scanners) used at the polling places where the glitch occurred. (Put them under lock and key – nobody touches them) 2. Preserve the machines at the precinct or tally location that were used to total the votes and upload them to the Internet or state counting facility. (Put them under lock and key – nobody touches them ) 3. Preserve all email communications with the officials responsible for the software updates, authorization software updates, and deploying software updates to the voting machines. 4. Preserve all non-email communications by the officials related to the same (text messages, imessages, whatsapp, etc) – and fact of phone calls (date/time stamps) 5. Preserve all communications (as listed in 3 and 4) by the voting machine technicians or corporate officials responsible for the creation and deployment of software updates. 6. Preserve all software logs, source code, continuous deployment/continuous integration logs, associated with the software updates process that resulted in the glitch. 7. Preserve the technicians, laptop, ipad, phone, or any other device used in the official execution of their duties to update voting machines
Perry, who later became the chairman of the far-right House Freedom Caucus, was one of 34 members of Congress who exchanged more than 400 texts with Meadows about efforts to overturn Trump’s loss in the 2020 presidential election. Those texts were included in the log that Meadows turned over to the House select committee investigating the Jan. 6 attack. For this series, The Meadows Texts, we are relying on the identifications of those texting with Meadows that were made by the committee’s investigators. To read more about the story behind that text log and our procedures for publishing the messages, check out the introduction to this series. Perry and his office did not respond to a request for comment.
The log may only be a partial record of Meadows’ communications, but Perry was one of the chief of staff’s most frequent correspondents included in it. The pair exchanged at least 62 messages in the period from Election Day, Nov. 3, 2020, through Biden’s inauguration on Jan. 20, 2021. CNN has previously published some of Perry’s messages with Meadows.
The texts between Perry and Meadows show the congressman attempting to involve himself in nearly every aspect of the campaign to block Biden’s win. They also reveal Perry to be someone who appeared to sincerely buy into outlandish conspiracy theories that the election was stolen by an array of shadowy international cyber warriors — and who was willing to use his position and influence in government to sow doubt and subvert the vote based on those deeply paranoid convictions.
Officials at every level of state and federal government — including multiple high-level members of Trump’s own administration — have confirmed there was no widespread fraud in the 2020 presidential election. Voting machines were central to the many thoroughly debunked conspiracy theories espoused by Trump and his allies in Pennsylvania and other key states. Pennsylvania counties each have different election procedures; however, they all complied with a 2018 directive from Trump’s Department of Homeland Security that called on local jurisdictions to use voting systems that include paper ballots that can be audited and verified by hand. The only notable issue reported in the state during the 2020 election was a man who used the names of dead relatives to cast multiple votes for Trump.
On Nov. 8, 2020, the day after Biden was projected as the winner of the election, Perry texted Meadows and urged him to connect with Sidney Powell, the firebrand far-right attorney. Powell would go on to pin Trump’s defeat on a communist conspiracy masterminded by deceased Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez. In messages with other contacts, Meadows, who entertained some conspiracy theories about the vote, indicated that Powell’s ideas were too far-fetched even for him. Perry seemingly had no such doubts and pressed Meadows, “please do not delay in speaking” with Powell.
The next day, Perry relayed a request from Cleta Mitchell, another right-wing attorney who worked on the Trump campaign’s failed legal blitz to challenge the election results in multiple states. According to Perry’s text, Mitchell was eager to set up a 501(c)(4) non-profit to support her efforts.
“Cleta asked if she should set up a C4 to deal with raising money and paying for the cyber portion. She offered to do it if necessary,” Perry wrote.
The text message log did not include responses from Meadows to Perry’s missives about the lawyers. However, in multiple messages, Perry indicated he was also communicating with Meadows on Signal, an encrypted messaging platform, and urged the chief of staff to check the Signal app.
By Nov. 10, Perry was working on the “cyber team.” In a series of texts that day, Perry said he was attempting to contribute to efforts in three key swing states: Michigan, Wisconsin and Arizona.
After sending Meadows the “instructions” from the “cyber forensic team” about locking down voting machines, Perry passed along a link to a conspiracy theory about the vote count in Pennsylvania posted by the Epoch Times, a far-right pro-Trump newspaper affiliated with the Falun Gong religious movement. Perry also asked Meadows for “a point of contact in Wisconsin and Arizona,” and for other people associated with “the cyber effort.” Meadows appeared to direct Perry to Rep. Chip Roy (R-TX), although Trump’s chief of staff misspelled the congressman’s first name as “Cip.”
“Roger, thank you. I will contact him now,” Perry wrote.
Roy’s text messages with Meadows were previously reported by CNN in April. When asked for comment on this series, a spokesperson for Roy pointed to a statement he issued at that time declaring, “No apologies for my private texts or public positions.”
As time went on, Perry appeared to become increasingly consumed by conspiracy theories related to the election. On the morning of Nov. 12, he sent a flurry of messages to Meadows and Rep. Jim Jordan (R-OH). Perry’s download to the pair began with a rambling 501-word, six-part strategy for challenging the vote in Pennsylvania that Perry said he was forwarding from a legislator in the state. Perry described the missive as a “a reasonable assessment,” but it was filled with easily debunked election delusions.
“People think Dominion software was hacked,” the lengthy text said, referencing a voting machine company that was central to many 2020 conspiracies. Multiple Trump administration officials have testified that the claims about Dominion had no merit. In some of his text messages, Meadows actually indicated he was skeptical of the theory. Dominion ultimately filed a series of defamation lawsuits against Trump allies who pushed the theory publicly. While some of those cases are ongoing, the company has had some success in initial court decisions.
Perry followed that message up by sending Meadows and Jordan what he described as a tip received “from an intel friend.”
“DNI needs to task NSA to immediately seize and begin looking for international comms related to Dominion – was china malware involved?” Perry wrote.
One minute later, he added that the Office of the Director of National Intelligence — run at that time by a former House colleague of his — needed to “audit their overseas accounts at CIA” and also take a look at the National Endowment for Democracy, a grantmaking organization for foreign NGOs. It’s not clear how the endowment was supposed to be involved. The organization’s board of directors includes prominent Trump allies: Rep. Elise Stefanik (R-NY) and Elliott Abrams, a Trump administration diplomat. Meadows’ text logs do not show any reply to Perry’s messages from Meadows or Jordan. Nevertheless, he persisted.
“This whole situation was seen coming a hundred miles away and they did nothing,” Perry wrote, adding, “And Gina is still running around on the Hill covering for the Brits who helped quarterback this entire operation.”
Perry’s message is seemingly a reference to a massive cover-up being orchestrated by Trump CIA director Gina Haspel and the United Kingdom. While the log doesn’t contain any response from Meadows or Jordan to these messages. Jordan and his office did not respond to requests for comment on this story.
On the afternoon of Nov. 12, Meadows wrote Perry asking if one of his contacts would be “willing to sign an affidavit,” presumably detailing claims about the election. Perry was, of course, eager to make the connection and also shared another series of conspiracy theories about the vote in his home state.
Scott Perry
Believe me, I’m going to do everything I can including putting you on the phone with her. Also, apparently, our dept of state shut down all its systems on Oct 2/3 and lost all its data requiring them to replace all their hard drives. Don’t know yet if it matters but the state legislative auditors are holding that for their subpoenas next week.
One week later, on Nov. 19, Perry let Meadows know he was working with “Rudy’s folks in Philly,” an apparent reference to the legal effort being run by Trump’s personal attorney, former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani. Over the next few days, Perry communicated with Meadows about connecting Pennsylvania lawmakers both with “Rudy’s folks” and Trump. Giuliani did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
Perry also expressed a desire to push U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania Bill McSwain, a Trump appointee, to investigate the vote. McSwain’s decision not to challenge the results was apparently a source of frustration for Trump. Earlier this year, as McSwain mounted an unsuccessful bid for governor, Trump attacked him for doing “absolutely nothing on the massive election fraud that took place in Philadelphia and throughout the commonwealth.”
Scott Perry
Thanks for doing that. Talking with Rudy’s folks in Philly, they want the PA legislative leaders invited ASAP for Sunday or Monday. They are in all day tomorrow passing the budget so that’s out. Let me know if you want to discuss it.
Mark Meadows
As long as you are coordinating. That is fine
Scott Perry
The call will have to come from The White House.
Mark Meadows
Can you send me the number for the speaker and the leader of PA Legislature. POTUS wants to chat with them
Scott Perry
Yes sir
Scott Perry
What will it take for Bill Mcswain to open an investigation?
Perry’s correspondence with Meadows, as recorded in the log, thinned out in Dec. 2020. However, the congressman was clearly still on board with the effort to challenge Trump’s loss. On Dec. 19, Rep. Jody Hice (R-GA), who was playing a leading role organizing the objection to the electoral certification that was set to take place at the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, wrote Meadows a message where he indicated he was confident Perry would back the effort. Perry was ultimately one of the 147 congressional Republicans who objected to the electoral certification in the hours after the Capitol was stormed by Trump supporters.
On Christmas Eve 2020, Perry tried to connect with Meadows.
“Mark, let me know if we can talk some strategy. Just a few minutes,” he wrote.
There was no reply in the logs. Perry texted Meadows again after the holiday. His tone was decidedly urgent.
“Mark, just checking in as time continues to count down. 11 days to 1/6 and 25 days to inauguration. We gotta get going!” Perry wrote.
Just over a half hour later, Perry was pressing Meadows to install Jeffrey Clark, the assistant attorney general for the DOJ’s natural resources section, as acting attorney general.
Clark became the central figure in a bizarre episode where Trump essentially tried to launch a coup through the DOJ, attempting to enlist federal law enforcement in his campaign to reverse his defeat.
As the linchpin of that plan, Trump wanted Clark, a longtime environmental lawyer and staunch loyalist, installed as acting attorney general. On his Twitter page, Clark has described himself as someone who was simply “concerned about the 2020 election” and as “one of the top targets of the politically motivated J6 Committee.”
Per a Senate Judiciary Committee report released last year, if he was placed atop the Justice Department, the plan was for Clark to send letters to multiple swing states informing them the DOJ had concluded that their election results were indeterminate. That report identified Perry as the one who introduced Clark to Trump.
The texts show Perry was pressing Meadows to speak with Clark over and over again.
Scott Perry
Mark, you should call Jeff. I just got off the phone with him and he explained to me why the principal deputy won’t work especially with the FBI. They will view it as as not having the authority to enforce what needs to be done.
Mark Meadows
I got it. I think I understand. Let me work on the deputy position
Part of what Clark was meant to do once in power was tee up the White House to make use of an executive order that Trump signed in 2018. That order, which was nominally aimed at combating foreign interference in American elections, granted broad power to the president and his Cabinet to impose sanctions if law enforcement officials declared there had been foreign meddling. In the wake of his loss, various Trump allies fixated on the order and the idea that a declaration of outside interference in the election could trigger all manner of responses, including the seizure of voting machines and martial law.
Perry appeared to be convinced there had been foreign interference. Per the texts, he was fixated on what later became known as “ItalyGate.” This conspiracy theory posited that Trump’s loss was really due to a hacking effort masterminded by an Italian defense contractor that used military-grade satellites to zap voting machines and steal the election for Biden. A House committee found last year that Meadows urged senior DOJ officials to investigate the theory, while the Jan. 6 committee found that a Trump appointee got the Pentagon to examine it. Per the Senate report, on both Dec. 29 and Dec. 30, 2020, Meadows urged DOJ officials to investigate ItalyGate.
On Dec. 30, Perry texted Meadows that “US 18-95” had been poorly explained at a meeting the previous day — an apparent reference to the U.S. statute that governs the activities of foreign agents on American soil.
On New Year’s Eve, shortly before midnight, Perry had another idea that he texted to Meadows.
“Why can’t we just work with the Italian government?” Perry asked.
He followed that message up with a link to a YouTube video outlining the conspiracy. Days later, on Jan. 2, 2021, Perry was juggling both the alleged Italian menace and the fate of Jeff Clark, whose bid to become attorney general was imploding as senior DOJ and White House legal officials threatened Trump with mass resignations were he to be appointed AG.
Perry pressed Meadows to get Trump on the phone with Rome. According to the log, Perry sent Meadows a message that seemed to suggest Trump should reach out to former Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte, whose name was misspelled in Perry’s text.
“Also,has POTUS been able to have a conversation with Conti? Can he move the ball today?” Perry asked.
The log does not include any responses from Meadows to Perry’s various messages about ItalyGate. However, it seemed Perry was aware Meadows was in communication with Clark.
“Please call me the instant you get off the phone with Jeff,” Perry wrote on the evening of Jan. 2.
Clark’s quest to become the country’s top federal law enforcement officer crashed and burned that very evening when DOJ officials spent hours persuading Trump to drop him as attorney general, putting an end to the scheme.
But it wasn’t the only plot afoot. The most dramatic of Trump’s efforts to stay in power came on Jan. 6 as the former president urged the thousands of his supporters who had converged on Washington to “fight like hell” as they stormed the U.S. Capitol. Perry, the texts show, was not done with the Trump White House after that fateful day. On Jan. 7, he sent Meadows one more message.
“Mark, please call when you can,” Perry wrote.
Rep. Scott Perry
A selection of key texts between Rep. Scott Perry (R-PA) and Mark Meadows.
11/8/20 at 2:32 p.m.
Scott Perry
Mark, please do not delay in speaking with him or Sydney Powell.
11/9/20 at 10:25 p.m.
Scott Perry
Cleta asked if she should set up a C4 to deal with raising money and paying for the cyber portion. She offered to do it if necessary.
11/10/20 at 10:11 a.m.
Scott Perry
Mark, so you're read in on what I've done I just sent this text to Josh Steinman. It is his contact in Michigan who I got from Ronna Mcdaniel. Her name is: Kim Jornes. Josh, this is Kim from Michigan. She will be your initial contact for your cyber team there. She is loading signal and will await your correspondence regarding team contact and instructions. Acknowledge receipt please.
11/10/20 at 8:49 p.m.
Scott Perry
Mark, these are instructions are from the cyber forensic team. Please ensure widest dissemination and action. Plz tell every state senior that they need to: 1. Preserve the specific voting machines (scanners) used at the polling places where the glitch occurred. (Put them under lock and key - nobody touches them) 2. Preserve the machines at the precinct or tally location that were used to total the votes and upload them to the Internet or state counting facility. (Put them under lock and key - nobody touches them ) 3. Preserve all email communications with the officials responsible for the software updates, authorization software updates, and deploying software updates to the voting machines. 4. Preserve all non-email communications by the officials related to the same (text messages, imessages, whatsapp, etc) - and fact of phone calls (date/time stamps) 5. Preserve all communications (as listed in 3 and 4) by the voting machine technicians or corporate officials responsible for the creation and deployment of software updates. 6. Preserve all software logs, source code, continuous deployment/continuous integration logs, associated with the software updates process that resulted in the glitch. 7. Preserve the technicians, laptop, ipad, phone, or any other device used in the official execution of their duties to update voting machines
11/10/20 at 8:57 p.m.
Scott Perry
https://www.theepochtimes.com/pennsylva ... 4zmZyT7oEs
11/10/20 at 9:02 p.m.
Scott Perry
I still need a point of contact in Wisconsin and Arizona.
11/10/20 at 9:17 p.m.
Scott Perry
Mark, I need the contact for a guy named Alex who is supposed to be handling the cyber effort.
11/10/20 at 9:40 p.m.
Mark Meadows
Cip Roy
11/10/20 at 9:43 p.m.
Scott Perry
Roger, thank you. I will contact him now.
11/11/20 at 7:09 a.m.
Scott Perry
I spoke with Alex and things are more clear now. I'm going to keep working it but if I sense my involvement is impending, I will bail out.
11/12/20 at 1:08 p.m.
Scott Perry
Can you tell me who is in charge of the Wisconsin recount?
11/12/20 at 3:17 p.m.
Mark Meadows
Let me know if she is willing to sign an affidavit
11/12/20 at 3:29 p.m.
Scott Perry
Believe me, I'm going to do everything I can including putting you on the phone with her. Also, apparently, our dept of state shut down all its systems on Oct 2/3 and lost all its data requiring them to replace all their hard drives. Don't know yet if it matters but the state legislative auditors are holding that for their subpoenas next week.
11/19/20 at 10:11 p.m.
Scott Perry
Thanks for doing that. Talking with Rudy's folks in Philly, they want the PA legislative leaders invited ASAP for Sunday or Monday. They are in all day tomorrow passing the budget so that's out. Let me know if you want to discuss it.
11/20/20 at 6:29 a.m.
Mark Meadows
As long as you are coordinating. That is fine
11/20/20 at 7:44 a.m.
Scott Perry
The call will have to come from The White House.
11/21/20 at 9:30 a.m.
Mark Meadows
Can you send me the number for the speaker and the leader of PA Legislature. POTUS wants to chat with them
11/21/20 at 2:16 p.m.
Scott Perry
Yes sir
11/21/20 at 10:25 p.m.
Scott Perry
What will it take for Bill Mcswain to open an investigation?
12/24/20 at 10:16 p.m.
Scott Perry
Mark, let me know if we can talk some strategy. Just a few minutes.
12/26/20 at 7:24 p.m.
Scott Perry
Mark, just checking in as time continues to count down. 11 days to 1/6 and 25 days to inauguration. We gotta get going!
12/26/20 at 7:55 p.m.
Scott Perry
Mark, you should call Jeff. I just got off the phone with him and he explained to me why the principal deputy won't work especially with the FBI. They will view it as as not having the authority to enforce what needs to be done.
12/26/20 at 8:04 p.m.
Mark Meadows
I got it. I think I understand. Let me work on the deputy position
12/26/20 at 8:05 p.m.
Scott Perry
Roger. Just sent you something on Signal
12/27/20 at 7:07 p.m.
Scott Perry
Can you call me when you get a chance? I just want to talk to you for a few moments before I return the presidents call as requested.
12/28/20 at 11:23 a.m.
Scott Perry
Did you call Jeff Clark?
12/29/20 at 10:32 a.m.
Scott Perry
Mark, I sent you a note on signal
12/30/20 at 12:50 a.m.
Scott Perry
Mark, need to re-visit US 18-951. It was not explained well yesterday. I think can add important context.
12/30/20 at 1:25 p.m.
Scott Perry
Check your signal please.
12/31/20 at 11:44 p.m.
Scott Perry
Why can't we just work with the Italian government?
12/31/20 at 11:44 p.m.
Scott Perry
https://youtu.be/YwtbK5XXAMk
1/2/21 at 11:37 a.m.
Scott Perry
This is what I sent to Jim: I suspect we will be operating under the two-hour rule for limiting debate plus the rule that each member can speak only once for five minutes or less (3 USC 17).
1/2/21 at 11:37 a.m.
Scott Perry
Can we conclude this does not preclude the ability of the President of the Senate�Vice President Pence�to admit testimony before commencing the debate?
1/2/21 at 11:37 a.m.
Scott Perry
�admit testimony� means Senate or House convenes as committee of the whole and hears sworn statements from persons who are willing to offer evidence and views but who are NOT members of Congress.
1/2/21 at 11:38 a.m.
Scott Perry
�Debate� takes place in House solely between members of the House. And �debate� takes place in Senate solely between members of the Senate.
1/2/21 at 11:39 a.m.
Scott Perry
Also,has POTUS been able to have a conversation with Conti? Can he move the ball today?
1/2/21 at 10:51 p.m.
Scott Perry
Please call me the instant you get off the phone with Jeff.
1/5/21 at 4:28 p.m.
Scott Perry
Please check your signal
1/7/21 at 3:35 p.m.
Scott Perry
Mark, please call when you can
Hunter Walker (@hunterw) is an investigative reporter for Talking Points Memo. He is an author and former White House correspondent whose work has appeared in a variety of publications including: the New Yorker, Rolling Stone, and New York Magazine. He can be reached at [email protected]
Josh Kovensky is an investigative reporter for Talking Points Memo, based in New York. He previously worked for the Kyiv Post in Ukraine, covering politics, business, and corruption there.
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As The 2020 Election Slipped Away, Andy Biggs And Mark Meadows Schemed To Reverse The Vote In Arizona
by Kate Riga and Hunter Walker
December 12, 2022 8:31 p.m.
The election-night exchanges between Rep. Andy Biggs (R-AZ) and former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows on Nov. 3, 2020, read like any other conversation between a campaign stakeholder and his ally in a battleground state.
They were watching the returns, hyper-focused on ballot batches and voting patterns. Biggs, who at the time was the chairman of the far-right House Freedom Caucus, was confident the election was going Trump’s way in Arizona.
“This is the first hour voting trend,” Andy texted Meadows. “Republicans voting at three times Dems.”
“Outstanding,” Meadows glowed in response.
But the record of texts between the two took a darker turn over the next few weeks as other networks followed the early projection from the Fox News decision desk and called the Grand Canyon State for Joe Biden. Even as Meadows and Biggs both seemingly acknowledged that the numbers looked grim for their man, they schemed together to put pressure on Arizona officials and to devise plans to challenge the election results.
Meadows’ conversations with Biggs during the period from Election Day until Biden’s inauguration on Jan. 20, 2021, are part of a tranche of communication Meadows turned over to the House select committee investigating the Jan. 6 attack. TPM has obtained the text log, which includes messages exchanged between Meadows and at least 34 members of Congress discussing efforts to overturn Trump’s election loss. For this series, The Meadows Texts, we are relying on the identifications of those texting with Meadows that were made by the committee’s investigators. To read more about the story behind that text log and our procedures for publishing the messages, check out the introduction to this series.
Based on the log, Biggs was one of Meadows’ most frequent congressional correspondents, with the pair exchanging 63 messages. Biggs’ number was identified by committee investigators and independently confirmed by TPM. He did not respond to a request for comment. Biggs’ communications with Meadows paint a picture of two increasingly desperate men, grasping at fantastical conspiracy theories when the real votes did not produce a Trump win.
As Arizona slipped further from Trump’s reach, their texts became increasingly frantic. Late on election night, Fox News called the state for Biden. It was the first network to do so, and its decision prompted outrage on the right. While that projection eventually proved correct, other major decision desks were not yet ready to call the state. Biggs messaged Meadows with a plea: “Whatever happens no one can concede.”
Andy Biggs
So, Fox called bu this is the situation that has been reported to me: outstanding ballots are600-700K statewide. Those are dropped off and day of votes. Fox doesn’t know what they are doing. Too many votes. Probably one more report tonight.
Andy Biggs
Mark they will start counting in Maricopa county tomorrow morning at 7:30 AM and they will go and release only one report at the end of the day. Whatever happens no one can concede because the president will win the state. After you and I talked another 10,000 votes came the presidents way so please make sure no one in the campaign or press office says anything about conceding in Arizona because I am very confident that as this thing goes President Trump is going to win
On Nov. 6, as the votes were still being counted, Meadows wrote Biggs looking for any reason to be optimistic.
“Any hope for Az,” Meadows asked.
“I’ve been trying to get hold of our legal and party teams in Arizona,” Biggs replied, before scratching off his calculations of how much of the outstanding vote Trump had to win to come back. “So still doable,” he concluded.
But things were bleak for Trump and his allies. The Associated Press made its call several hours after Fox and the other major broadcast networks caught up in the next few days. By Friday, when Meadows was looking for a silver lining in Arizona, NBC, ABC and CBS had all projected Biden as the state’s victor.
Less than eight hours after he indicated an Arizona victory was still “doable” for Trump, Biggs had begun cooking up a plot to challenge the results in the state.
Andy Biggs
I’m sure you have heard of this proposal. It is to encourage the state legislatures to appoint a look doors in the various states where there’s been shenanigans. If I understand right most of those states have Republican Legislature’s. It seems to be comport with glorified Bush as well as the Constitution. And, well highly controversial, it can’t be much more controversial than the lunacy that were sitting out there now. And It would be pretty difficult because he would take governors and legislators with collective will and backbone to do that. Is anybody on the team researching and considering lobbying for that?
Through the typos, Biggs seemed to be floating a variation of the fake electors scheme, a gambit where Trump allies would put their names to an alternate slate of electors that could be approved by Republican lawmakers in states Biden won. Versions of the plot became popular among members of the Trump camp as legal avenues to overturn the 2020 election dwindled, and the idea that Trump electors could be swapped in for Biden electors was key to Trump allies’ growing interest in the day when electoral votes would be counted and certified, Jan. 6. The fake electors schemes have led to multiple investigations.
On Nov. 6, Meadows was succinct in response:
“I love it,” he wrote.
While the two continued to track the numbers and tried to calculate the outstanding vote share in the state, it was clear that the door was closing. Even as they seemed to acknowledge the real results, the pair took a turn toward the tin foil-hatted and set aside the vote counts in favor of increasingly bizarre conspiracy theories that could help Trump clinch Arizona anyway. Biggs’ initial text with the “highly controversial” idea was previously published by CNN.
However, it is just one of several messages where Biggs proposed last-ditch, conspiracy-theory-fueled schemes to wrench back the state. Most of those messages are being reported here for the first time.
On Nov. 7, the day after he suggested the plan to have Republican-controlled state legislatures essentially throw out the results, Biggs sent Meadows another text urging Trump not to give up.
“Please don’t let the President concede. We must exhaust all options,” he wrote.
Trump — and Biggs — then set their sights on Arizona Republican Gov. Doug Ducey, who had been an ally of the former president. On Nov. 8, Biggs indicated he had spoken directly with Trump, who had asked him to reach out to Ducey. The plan was apparently not a success.
Andy Biggs
Hey Mark the president asked me to call Governor Ducey I did and Ducey won’t talk to me he will only let me talk to his Chief of Staff. But based on hints that were given to me looks like the governor wants to punch this to county board of supervisors. I did talk to the legal team and as a result I’ve placed some calls to the board of supervisors without connecting so far. I’ll keep trying
Ducey famously resisted — and literally ignored — calls from Trump about refusing to certify Biden’s victory.
In the days after Biggs’ effort to contact the governor, as he continued monitoring and expressed frustration about the pace of returns, Biggs also seemed to acknowledge there were not enough real votes for Trump to win.
Mark Meadows
How many total ballots left
Andy Biggs
We think there’s still around 55-60k
Mark Meadows
Ok
Andy Biggs
Wait all day for 5k ballots… This is inexcusable.
Andy Biggs
Not enough
Andy Biggs
Still more than 40k provisional ballots and about 7.5k other ballots. Question is how many provisionals are valid
With the numbers going against them, Biggs dashed down the conspiracy rabbit hole. On Nov. 12, he wrote Meadows to advise him of a contact who wanted “to talk about dominion software.” Dominion Voting Systems and its beleaguered employees found themselves at the center of a MAGA-fueled firestorm when Trump’s allies and acolytes baselessly hypothesized that the voting hardware and software company had provided machinery that flipped Trump votes to Biden. Employees received floods of death threats, and the company ultimately lodged a $1.6 billion defamation suit against Fox News, and separate lawsuits against other far-right news networks and Trump allies, for giving the lie life.
That same afternoon, Meadows seemingly set his sights on another local Republican to press for help. He asked Biggs to pass along contact information for Arizona Attorney General Mark Brnovich. Biggs was happy to oblige.
Mark Meadows
Can you get me the attorney general of Arizona phone number
Andy Biggs
Yes
Mark Meadows
Thanks
The following day, Biggs suggested a new scapegoat in the form of undocumented immigrants, proposing to challenge the totals on the premise that immigrants had somehow fraudulently voted in great enough numbers to swing the election.
Andy Biggs
So one of the remedies that may still be left is to enjoin the certification of the election based on the Fed only ballots. If we can’t get the investigation done in time for that, we should make sure we have it done in time and can demonstrate that a significant number of illegal aliens votes in the election so that the legislature, when called into certify the electors, can reject them based on fraud. What do you think?
Meadows was also amenable to this scheme.
“I like it,” he replied.
As the month wound down, the pair mused over the “number of native Americans in Arizona.” Meadows also asked Biggs to get him Ducey’s cell phone. On Nov. 22, Biggs offered one more idea to reverse Trump’s loss: a plan to “audit” ballots, an idea he indicated he was exploring with Arizona Republican Party Chairwoman Kelli Ward.
Andy Biggs
Also I am talking with Kelly Ward about the so-called adjudicated ballots. That’s the 130,000 ballots she’s talking about. I’m trying to get to the bottom of the process and see if there’s a way we can audit those
“Ok,” Meadows responded.
At this point, even Biggs seemed to realize their chances were slim.
“Don’t hold out false hope on that,” Biggs added. “But there is a glimmer potentially there but we shouldn’t get overhyped on it.”
By the end of the month, all that was left was the Trump legal team led by Rudy Giuliani, en route to Arizona for a rally. In a Nov. 29 message to Meadows, Biggs derisively referred Giuliani and his colleagues as “the circus.” But Biggs was clearly willing to join the sideshow.
“Hey Mark, the circus is coming to town tomorrow and I wanted your input. Giuliani and company will be in downtown Phoenix,” Biggs wrote. “I’m planning on being there. Anything I should look out for your address when I speak to the crowd?”
The following day, Nov. 30, Giuliani and his team held what they dubbed a “hearing” at a hotel in downtown Phoenix. In a recap of the session, the Arizona Republic newspaper noted that, despite the title, it was “not an official legislative event” and that Biggs and Rep. Paul Gosar (R-AZ) were seated behind Giuliani as various witnesses cast doubt on voting machines and ballot counting. Meanwhile, a few blocks away, as Giuliani’s “hearing” was underway, Ducey and Brnovich were together at the state’s Capitol certifying the election results. When Trump called the governor during that ceremony, he did not pick up.
Rep Andy Biggs
A selection of key texts between Rep. Andy Biggs (R-AZ) and Mark Meadows.
11/3/20 at 10:08 a.m.
Andy Biggs
this is the first hour voting trend. Republicans voting at three times Dems.
11/3/20 at 10:10 a.m.
Mark Meadows
Outstanding
11/3/20 at 6:35 p.m.
Andy Biggs
This is the latest. We've expanded our leader Democrats to well over 30,000 votes. Also I called my consultants again and they tell me that the independence are probably breaking even better than two or 3% for Trump because they're so active today. And that an independent voting for Biden would've already done it through mail in ballot because they don�t trust the Covid. Ha ha
11/3/20 at 11:31 p.m.
Andy Biggs
So, Fox called bu this is the situation that has been reported to me: outstanding ballots are600-700K statewide. Those are dropped off and day of votes. Fox doesn't know what they are doing. Too many votes. Probably one more report tonight.
11/4/20 at 2:59 a.m.
Andy Biggs
Mark they will start counting in Maricopa county tomorrow morning at 7:30 AM and they will go and release only one report at the end of the day. Whatever happens no one can concede because the president will win the state. After you and I talked another 10,000 votes came the presidents way so please make sure no one in the campaign or press office says anything about conceding in Arizona because I am very confident that as this thing goes President Trump is going to win
11/4/20 at 9:14 p.m.
Andy Biggs
Still about 340k Maricopa County ballots. And 180k additional statewide
11/4/20 at 9:15 p.m.
Mark Meadows
Ok
11/4/20 at 9:19 p.m.
Mark Meadows
Not enough to help us get there
11/4/20 at 9:20 p.m.
Andy Biggs
Well he won by 59% of the 75,000 some odd votes today. He needs to win by 56% of everything to win so I think there's plenty of boats there provided the ratio stay strong
11/4/20 at 9:20 p.m.
Mark Meadows
Ok
11/6/20 at 12:52 a.m.
Mark Meadows
Any hope for Az
11/6/20 at 12:54 a.m.
Andy Biggs
I've been trying to get hold of our legal and party teams in Arizona. By my calculations president needs to win about 59 1/2% of the outstanding balance to win. There are 225,000 statewide balance (140,000 Maricopa county ballots left ). So still doable
11/6/20 at 8:48 p.m.
Andy Biggs
I'm sure you have heard of this proposal. It is to encourage the state legislatures to appoint a look doors in the various states where there's been shenanigans. If I understand right most of those states have Republican Legislature�s. It seems to be comport with glorified Bush as well as the Constitution. And, well highly controversial, it can't be much more controversial than the lunacy that were sitting out there now. And It would be pretty difficult because he would take governors and legislators with collective will and backbone to do that. Is anybody on the team researching and considering lobbying for that?
11/6/20 at 8:56 p.m.
Mark Meadows
I love it.
11/7/20 at 2:51 p.m.
Andy Biggs
Please don't let the President concede. We must exhaust all options
11/8/20 at 4:17 p.m.
Andy Biggs
Hey Mark the president asked me to call Governor Ducey I did and Ducey won't talk to me he will only let me talk to his Chief of Staff. But based on hints that were given to me looks like the governor wants to punch this to county board of supervisors. I did talk to the legal team and as a result I've placed some calls to the board of supervisors without connecting so far. I'll keep trying
11/10/20 at 8:24 p.m.
Mark Meadows
How many total ballots left
11/10/20 at 8:25 p.m.
Andy Biggs
We think there's still around 55-60k
11/10/20 at 8:25 p.m.
Mark Meadows
Ok
11/10/20 at 9:22 p.m.
Andy Biggs
Wait all day for 5k ballots... This is inexcusable.
11/11/20 at 10:19 p.m.
Andy Biggs
Not enough
11/12/20 at 11:49 a.m.
Andy Biggs
This guy is the one that wants to talk about dominion software Thanks
11/12/20 at 3:44 p.m.
Mark Meadows
Can you get me the attorney general of Arizona phone number
11/12/20 at 3:50 p.m.
Andy Biggs
Yes
11/12/20 at 3:57 p.m.
Mark Meadows
Thanks
11/13/20 at 1:50 p.m.
Andy Biggs
So one of the remedies that may still be left is to enjoin the certification of the election based on the Fed only ballots. If we can't get the investigation done in time for that, we should make sure we have it done in time and can demonstrate that a significant number of illegal aliens votes in the election so that the legislature, when called into certify the electors, can reject them based on fraud. What do you think?
11/13/20 at 2:13 p.m.
Mark Meadows
I like it
11/17/20 at 6:56 p.m.
Andy Biggs
I'm speaking to the Arizona GOP executive board tonight. Anything you'd like me to tell them in particular
11/18/20 at 7:40 p.m.
Andy Biggs
Mark the total number of native Americans in Arizona is an excess of 425,000. I'm waiting for the number of voters to come back
11/22/20 at 6:55 p.m.
Mark Meadows
What is gov Ducey cell phone
11/22/20 at 6:57 p.m.
Andy Biggs
Also I am talking with Kelly Ward about the so-called adjudicated ballots. That's the 130,000 ballots she's talking about. I'm trying to get to the bottom of the process and see if there's a way we can audit those
11/22/20 at 6:59 p.m.
Mark Meadows
Ok
11/22/20 at 7:00 p.m.
Andy Biggs
Don't hold out false hope on that but there is a glimmer potentially there but we shouldn't get overhyped on it
11/22/20 at 7:00 p.m.
Mark Meadows
Ok
11/29/20 at 7:14 p.m.
Andy Biggs
Hey Mark, the circus is coming to town tomorrow and I wanted your input. Giuliani and company will be in downtown Phoenix I'm planning on being there. Anything I should look out for your address when I speak to the crowd?
Kate Riga (@Kate_Riga24) is a D.C. reporter for TPM and cohost of the Josh Marshall Podcast.
Hunter Walker (@hunterw) is an investigative reporter for Talking Points Memo. He is an author and former White House correspondent whose work has appeared in a variety of publications including: the New Yorker, Rolling Stone, and New York Magazine. He can be reached at [email protected]