Trump lashes out at Gov. Doug Ducey following certification

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Bill Barr refuses to say Trump & Giuliani wouldn’t sell pardons
by Lawrence O'Donnell
MSNBC
May 17, 2023 #msnbc #giuliani #trump

MSNBC’s Lawrence O’Donnell analyzes new comments from former Attorney General William Barr about the civil lawsuit filed against Rudy Giuliani, which alleges that he and former President Donald Trump conspired to sell pardons for $2 million dollars and split the profits.



Transcript

I'M HERE, AREN'T?
I >> THANK, YOU.
>> HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.
>> I GET THE JOKE.
>> THANKS ALEX, THANK YOU.
WELL, IF YOU'RE TUNING INTO
THIS PROGRAM IN THE HOPE THAT
FOR THE THIRD NIGHT IN A ROW I
WILL BEGIN BY READING NEW
PASSAGES OF A 69-PAGE CIVIL
COMPLAINT AND A LAWSUIT FILED
IN MANHATTAN ON MONDAY ACCUSING
RUDY GIULIANI OF SEXUAL ASSAULT,
WITHHOLDING WAGES, FEDERAL
INCOME TAX EVASION, AND SELLING
CONDOS FOR TWO BILLION DOLLARS
WHICH HE SOUL SPLIT WAS ON
TRUMP.
I AM SORRY.
GLASS TONIGHT I HAVE READ TO
YOU ALL OF THE MOST IMPORTANT
PASSAGES IN THAT 69-PAGE
COMPLAINT THAT I CAN ACTUALLY
SAY ON TELEVISION.
AS GROTESQUE AS MOST OF WHAT I
HAVE ALREADY READ TO YOU THIS
WEEK SOUNDS, IT DOES NOT
INCLUDE THE MOST GRAPHIC PARTS
OF THE COMPLAINT.
GIULIANI HAS STAYED ABSOLUTELY
SILENT FOR THE NOW MORE THAN 48
HOURS THAT THESE WRITTEN
ACCUSATIONS WERE MADE PUBLIC IN
COURT.
ON MONDAY AFTERNOON A
SPOKESPERSON FOR GIULIANI
ISSUED A WRITTEN STATEMENT
SAYING THAT HE DENIES THE
ACCUSATIONS.
THAT'S IT.
IF YOU ARE WONDERING WHY THERE
HASN'T BEEN MUCH MORE COVERAGE
OF THIS LAWSUIT ON TELEVISION,
IN MIGHT BE BECAUSE THERE ARE
SO FEW PARTS OF THE COMPLAINT
THAT CAN ACTUALLY BE READ ON
TELEVISION.
THE MOST SERIOUS ACCUSATION IN
THE DOCUMENT THAT INCLUDES
DONALD TRUMP IS ABOUT SELLING
PARDONS FOR $2 MILLION DURING
THE TRUMP PRESIDENCY.
AS I MENTIONED MONDAY, WHEN I
READ THAT PASSAGE TO YOU, IT
APPEARS ON THE SAME PAGE ON THE
COMPLAINT WHERE THERE IS A
SCREENSHOT OF RUDOLPH
GIULIANI'S TEXT TO HIS EMPLOYEE,
NOEL DAME FEE, WHO IS SUING HIM,
SAYING, CAN I SHOWER WITH YOU?
ON THE TOP OF THAT PAGE IS THE
STORY ABOUT THE 2 MILLION
DOLLAR PARDONS.
QUOTE, GIULIANI ALSO ASKED MS.
NOELLE DUNPHY IF YOU KNEW
ANYONE ELSE WHO NEEDED PARDON,
AS HE WAS SELLING FOR $2
MILLION.
HE TOLD MS. NOELLE DUNPHY THAT
SHE COULD REFER INDIVIDUAL
SEEKING PARDONS TO HIM SO LONG
AS THEY DID NOT GO THROUGH THE
NORMAL CHANNELS OF THE OFFICE
OF THE PARDON ATTORNEY, BECAUSE
CORRESPONDENTS GOING INTO THAT
OFFICE WOULD BE SUBJECT TO
DISCLOSURE UNDER THE FREEDOM OF
INFORMATION ACT.
RUDOLPH GIULIANI HAS LET THAT
ACCUSATION SIT FOR OVER TWO
FULL DAYS NOW WHILE HE
MAINTAINS COMPLETE SILENCE
ABOUT IT.
DONALD TRUMP'S LAST SENATE
CONFIRMED ATTORNEY GENERAL WAS
ASKED ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF
RUDOLPH GIULIANI SELLING 2
MILLION DOLLAR PARDONS.
AND HE DIDN'T EXACTLY OFFER A
STRONG DEFENSE.
>> I WANT TO ASK YOU TO MORE
THINGS.
A 70-PAGE COMPLAINT WAS FILED
IN STATE COURT NEW YORKER
MONDAY.
THIS IS SOMEONE WHO WORKS RUDY
GIULIANI, WHO ALLEGES NOT ONLY
SEXUAL ASSAULT AND HARASSMENT
BOUGHT THAT SHE HAS EVIDENCE
THAT HE TRIED TO SELL PARDONS
FOR $2 MILLION APIECE WHICH HE
AND PRESIDENT TRUMP WOULD
SPLIT.
DO YOU THINK THAT IS POSSIBLE?
>> I AM SKEPTICAL ABOUT THAT.
I DON'T THINK RUDY GIULIANI
WOULD DO THAT.
I HOPE HE WOULDN'T.
BUT I DON'T KNOW.
>> I DON'T KNOW?
I HOPE HE WOULDN'T?
BUT?
I DON'T KNOW?
WHAT WILLIAM BARR KNOWS RUDOLPH
GIULIANI WELL.
WILLIAM BYRON KNOWS DONALD
TRUMP WELL.
AND WHEN ASKED IF THOSE TWO
COULD HAVE TEAMED UP TO SELL 2
MILLION DOLLAR PARDON SPLIT THE
MONEY, WILLIAM BYRON BARS
ANSWER IS, I DON'T KNOW.
ASKED THAT QUESTION TO ANY
OTHER ATTORNEY GENERAL WHO WAS
NOT APPOINTED BY DONALD TRUMP
OR RICHARD NIXON AND HE WOULD
GET A VERY VERY STRONG ANSWER
TO THAT ACCUSATION, A VERY
STRONG DEFENSE AGAINST AN
ACCUSATION LIKE THAT.
BUT TO THE QUESTION WAS RUDY
GIULIANI SELLING PARDONS $2
MILLION IS SPLITTING THE MONEY
WITH DONALD TRUMP, WILLIAM
BARR'S BEST ANSWER, AS WE SAW
HIM THINK ABOUT IT, PAUSE, AND
THINK ABOUT, IT HIS BEST ANSWER
IS, I DON'T KNOW.
DON TRUMP'S ANSWER TO QUESTIONS
ON CNN LAST WEEK MIGHT HAVE
PROVOKED ONE OF HIS LAWYERS TO
QUIT.
ABOUT THE DOCUMENTS THE FBI
SEIZED THE SEARCH WARRANT FROM
DONALD TRUMP'S RESIDENCE IN
FLORIDA THE DON'T TRUMP SAID I
TOOK THE DOCUMENTS, I AM
ALLOWED TO.
HE ACTUALLY SAID THOSE WORDS.
TODAY, TIMOTHY ONE --
, OF THE LAWYERS DEFENDING
DONALD TRUMP IN JACK SMITH'S
SPECIAL INVESTIGATION, QUIT.
JACK SMIC SERVED A SUBPOENA ON
HIM THE FORCED HIM TO TESTIFY
TO THE GRAND JURY.
LAST MONTH IN A LETTER TO
REPUBLICAN-CONTROLLED HOUSE
COMMITTEE, THIS LAWYER SAID THE
DOCUMENTS ENDED UP IN FLORIDA
BY ACCIDENT.
IT WAS JUST A MISTAKE.
HE CLAIMED THAT THE TRUMP STAFF,
QUOTE, QUICKLY PACKED
EVERYTHING INTO BOXES AND SHIP
THEM TO FLORIDA.
HE CLAIMED THAT NONE OF THE
CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS ENDED UP
AT THE TRUMP FLORIDA RESIDENTS
BECAUSE OF, QUOTE, INTENTIONAL
DECISIONS BY PRESIDENT TRUMP.
DONALD TRUMP TURNED THAT LETTER
INTO A LIE ON CNN LAST WEEK
WHEN HE SAID I TOOK THE
DOCUMENTS.
I'M ALLOWED TO.
DONALD TRUMP, IN EFFECT,
REPEATEDLY LABELED THAT LAWYERS
LATTER, THAT WAS SENT TO
CONGRESS, AS FALSE.
>> WHY DID YOU TAKE THOSE
DOCUMENTS WITH YOU WHEN YOU AT
THE WHITE HOUSE?
>> I HAD EVERY RIGHT TO UNDER
THE PRESIDENTIAL RECORDS ACT.
YOU HAVE THE PRESIDENTIAL
RECORDS ACT I WAS THERE, I TOOK
WHAT I TOOK, AND GETS
DECLASSIFIED.
>> WHY DID YOU NOT TURN THEM
OVER WHEN YOU GOT A SUBPOENA?
>> BECAUSE WE WERE NEGOTIATING
WITH THEM.
AND BY THE WAY, THEY BECOME
AUTOMATICALLY DECLASSIFIED WHEN
I TOOK THEM.
>> AND NOW, THE LAWYER WHO'S
LETTER TO CONGRESS COMPLETELY
DISAGREES WITH THAT HAS QUIT.
THE AUTOMATICALLY DECLASSIFIED
DEFENSE IS APPARENTLY UNDER
MORE STRESS THAN EVER TONIGHT,
WITH CNN REPORTING ON THE
CONTENTS OF THE LETTER FROM THE
NATIONAL ARCHIVES TO DONALD
TRUMP, INFORMING HIM THAT THE
ARCHIVES IS GOING TO HANDLE TO
SPECIAL PROSECUTOR JACK SMITH,
16 RECORDS.
THE LETTER SAYS, THE 16 RECORDS
IN QUESTION ALL REFLECT
COMMUNICATIONS INVOLVING CLOSE
PRESIDENTIAL ADVISERS, SOME OF
THEM DIRECTED TO YOU PERSONALLY,
CONCERNING WHETHER, WHY, AND
HOWELL YOU SHOULD WE DECLASSIFY
CERTAIN CLASSIFIED RECORDS.
IF NONE OF THOSE DOCUMENTS SAY
THE DONALD TRUMP COULD
AUTOMATICALLY DECLASSIFIED
DOCUMENTS, SIMPLY BY TAKING
THEM HOME, THEN DONALD TRUMP
WILL BE IN EVEN MORE TROUBLE
WHEN JACK SMITH GETS THOSE
DOCUMENTS SCHEDULED TO BE
DELIVERED TO HIM FROM THE
NATIONAL ARCHIVES NEXT WEEK.
IN MANHATTAN, WHERE DONALD
TRUMP IS A CRIMINAL DEFENDANT,
HE RECEIVED SOME CLARIFICATION
FROM THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY
ABOUT THE OTHER CRIMES THE
DISTRICT ATTORNEY BELIEVES
DONALD TRUMP INTENDED TO COMMIT
AS A RESULT OF COMMITTING THE
CRIME OF FALSIFYING BUSINESS
RECORDS TO CORRUPT LONG
TRANSLATOR AND 30,000 DOLLAR
CASH PAYMENT OF HUSH MONEY TO
ACTRESS STORMY DANIELS.
IN A COURT FILING THE DISTRICT
ATTORNEY SAID, QUOTE, THE CRIME
CRIMES DEFENDED INTENDED TO
COMMIT OR TO AID OR CONCEAL NAY
INCLUDE VIOLATIONS OF THE

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Nine different federal judges have blamed Trump for January 6th
by CitizensforEthics.org
May 18, 2023

[x]

Since the January 6th insurrection and storming of the U.S. Capitol, federal judges have repeatedly and pointedly laid the blame on former President Donald Trump for inciting the attack. Other judges may soon face similar questions as they consider Trump’s legal culpability for the insurrection, including whether he is constitutionally disqualified to hold public office under the 14th Amendment.

In fifteen cases overseen by nine different judges appointed by Republican and Democratic presidents, courts have not minced words in declaring that Trump was the central cause of the January 6, 2021 insurrection, echoing the findings of the bipartisan January 6th Select Committee. Time and again judges have found that Trump inflamed his supporters with the lie of a “stolen” election, urged them to “fight” to take back their country, and sent them to the Capitol to “stop the steal.” Trump used violent rhetoric to whip his supporters into a frenzy and do illegally what he had tried and failed to do legally: stop certification of the election for Joe Biden. Although Trump has not yet faced criminal charges for his efforts to overturn the 2020 election, federal judges hearing cases relating to the January 6th insurrection have repeatedly recognized the immense power and influence of Trump’s actions and words over his supporters, as well as Trump’s ultimate responsibility for the attack carried out by his supporters on his behalf and at his behest.

In a civil lawsuit brought by members of Congress and police officers who defended the Capitol on January 6th, U.S. District Judge Amit Mehta wrote that Trump’s statements at his January 6th “Stop the Steal” rally were “plausibly words of incitement not protected by the First Amendment.” The speech “was akin to telling an excited mob that corn-dealers starve the poor in front of the corn-dealer’s home. He invited his supporters to Washington, D.C., after telling them for months that corrupt and spineless politicians were to blame for stealing an election from them; retold that narrative when thousands of them assembled on the Ellipse; and directed them to march on the Capitol building—the metaphorical corn-dealer’s house—where those very politicians were at work to certify an election that he had lost.”

In another case, U.S. District Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly highlighted Trump’s responsibility in finding criminal defendant Danean MacAndrew guilty of several crimes for her participation in what the judge described as an “insurrection” on January 6, 2021. The judge found: “[A]t the ‘Stop the Steal’ rally, then-President Trump eponymously exhorted his supporters to, in fact, stop the steal by marching to the Capitol. Defendant marched to the Capitol where, she testified, she understood that only Congress had the power to fix the election’s outcome and that Congress was likely in session while she was around and in the Capitol. Having followed then-President Trump’s instructions, which were in line with her stated desires, the Court therefore finds that Defendant intended her presence to be disruptive to Congressional business.”

During the sentencing of January 6th defendant John Lolos, Judge Mehta noted that Lolos was heavily swayed by Trump’s rhetoric, and Lolos only left the Capitol building after being confronted by police officers who ordered him to leave. Judge Mehta pointed out that Lolos flew from Seattle to Washington, D.C. to protest what he called “voter fraud.” After Trump’s “Stop the Steal” rally, where Trump directed his followers to “fight like hell,” Lolos joined others in marching to the Capitol building, breached police barriers and the building, and spent nearly 45 minutes inside, taking photos, waving his flag, taking selfies and other photos. He joined the mob in chanting at police officers trying to clear insurrectionists out of the building.

“The fact remains that he and others were called to Washington, D.C. by an elected official; he was prompted to walk to the Capitol by an elected official. People like Mr. Lolos were told lies, fed falsehoods, and told that our election was stolen when it clearly was not.”-- Judge Amit Mehta

At Lolos’ sentencing, Judge Mehta said, “The fact remains that he and others were called to Washington, D.C. by an elected official; he was prompted to walk to the Capitol by an elected official. People like Mr. Lolos were told lies, fed falsehoods, and told that our election was stolen when it clearly was not.” Judge Mehta recognized that Lolos, like many others that day, were “pawns” in Trump’s scheme to overturn the 2020 election results.

Or take January 6th defendant Nicole Prado. She told the FBI that she anticipated violence on January 6th and willingly went into the Capitol building, despite her understanding that she was not supposed to enter the grounds. Prado eventually made her way into the office of the ranking member of the House Appropriations Committee. In her sentencing hearing, U.S. District Judge Rudolph Contreras said, “The events of January 6th involved the rather unprecedented confluence of events spurred by then President Trump and a number of his prominent allies who bear much responsibility for what occurred on that day.”

Perhaps the most direct attribution pinning January 6th on Donald Trump came from U.S. District Judge David O. Carter in a lawsuit between the January 6th Select Committee and Trump lawyer John Eastman. In ruling that certain communications were not protected by the attorney-client privilege, Judge Carter concluded it was “more likely than not that President Trump” committed a felony by “corruptly attempt[ing] to obstruct the Joint Session of Congress on January 6, 2021.” Judge Carter remarked:

“The illegality of the plan was obvious. Our nation was founded on the peaceful transition of power, epitomized by George Washington laying down his sword to make way for democratic elections. Ignoring this history, President Trump vigorously campaigned for the Vice President to single-handedly determine the results of the 2020 election. As Vice President Pence stated, ‘no Vice President in American history has ever asserted such authority.’ Every American—and certainly the President of the United States—knows that in a democracy, leaders are elected, not installed. With a plan this ‘BOLD,’ President Trump knowingly tried to subvert this fundamental principle. Based on the evidence, the Court finds it more likely than not that President Trump corruptly attempted to obstruct the Joint Session of Congress on January 6, 2021.”

In these instances and more, federal judges have drawn a direct connection between what happened at the Capitol on January 6th and former President Trump’s actions. Judges are assigning blame where it is rightly due. Instead of accepting his defeat in 2020, Donald Trump violated his oath to the Constitution by sending a violent mob of his supporters to disrupt the peaceful transfer of power for the first time in American history. His abuse of power threatened to undermine our democratic institutions. The evidence could not be clearer that Trump is responsible for what happened on January 6, 2021, and judges recognize that reality.

Judge / Court / Date / Statement / Citation / Link

Judge Rudolph Contreras / U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia / 2022-02-07 / “The events of January 6th involved the rather unprecedented confluence of events spurred by then President Trump and a number of his prominent allies who bear much responsibility for what occurred on that day.” / Transcript of Sentencing at 38, United States of America v. Nicole Prado (D.D.C. Feb. 7, 2022) (No. 1:21-cr-00403-RC). / Source

Judge Rudolph Contreras / U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia / 2022-02-04 / “The events of January 6th involved a rather unprecedented confluence of events spurred by then President Trump and a number of his prominent allies who bear much responsibility for what occurred on that day.” / Transcript of Sentencing at 28, United States of America v. Richard Franklin Barnard and Jeffery Shane Witcher (D.D.C. Feb 4, 2022) (No. 1:21-cr-00235-RC). / Source

Judge Rudolph Contreras / U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia / 2022-01-20 / "The events of January 6th involved a rather unprecedented confluence of events spread by then President Trump and a number of his prominent allies who bear much responsibility for what occurred on that day." / Transcript of Sentencing at 68, United States v Stepakoff (D.D.C. Jan. 20, 2022) (No. 1:21-cr-00096-RC) / Source

Judge Rudolph Contreras / U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia / 2022-02-07 / “The events of January 6th involved a rather unprecedented confluence of events spurred by then-President Trump and a number of his prominent allies who bear much responsibility for what occurred on that day.” Transcript of Sentencing at 28, United States v. Vic Williams (D.D.C. Feb. 7, 2022) (No. 1:21-cr-00388-RC-1). / Source

Judge Amit Mehta / U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia / 2022-02-18 / “President Trump’s January 6 Rally Speech was akin to telling an excited mob that corn-dealers starve the poor in front of the corn-dealer’s home. He invited his supporters to Washington, D.C., after telling them for months that corrupt and spineless politicians were to blame for stealing an election from them; retold that narrative when thousands of them assembled on the Ellipse; and directed them to march on the Capitol building—the metaphorical corn-dealer’s house—where those very politicians were at work to certify an election that he had lost.”

Additional Statements: “The President argues that, at most, Plaintiffs have pleaded that the President ‘made political statements . . . at a rally meant to persuade political officials.’ But that contention misses the forest for the trees. It ignores the larger context of the Rally Speech. For months, the President led his supporters to believe the election was stolen. When some of his supporters threatened state election officials, he refused to condemn them. Rallies in Washington, D.C., in November and December 2020 had turned violent, yet he invited his supporters to Washington, D.C., on the day of the Certification. They came by the thousands. And, following a 75-minute speech in which he blamed corrupt and weak politicians for the election loss, he called on them to march on the very place where Certification was taking place.”; Plaintiffs’ allegations show a call-and-response quality to the President’s communications, of which the President would have been aware. The Complaints contain numerous examples of the President’s communications being understood by supporters as direct messages to them and, in the case of the January 6 Rally, as a call to action.; [T]he President’s January 6 Rally Speech can reasonably be viewed as a call for collective action. The President’s regular use of the word “we” is notable. To name just a few examples: “We will not take it anymore”; “We will ‘stop the steal’”; “We will never give up”; “We will never concede”; “We will not take it anymore”; “All Mike Pence has to do is send it back to the states to recertify, and we become president”; “[W]e’re going to have to fight much harder”; “We can’t let that happen”; “We’re going to walk down . . .”; “We fight like hell”; “We’re going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue.” / Mem. Op. & Order at 97, Thompson v Trump, 590 F. Supp. 3d 46 (D.D.C. 2022) (No. 21-cv-00400). / Source

Judge Amit Mehta / U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia / 2021-11-19 / “The fact remains that he and others were called to Washington, D.C. by an elected official; he was prompted to walk to the Capitol by an elected official. People like Mr. Lolos were told lies, fed falsehoods, and told that our election was stolen when it clearly was not.” / Transcript of Sentencing at 55, United States v. Lolos (D.D.C. Nov. 19, 2021) (No. CR 21-243). / Source

Judge Amy Berman Jackson / U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia / 2021-05-26 / “[t]he steady drumbeat that inspired defendant to take up arms has not faded away; six months later, the canard that the election was stolen is being repeated daily on major news outlets and from the corridors of power in state and federal government, not to mention the near-daily fulminations of the former President.” / Mem. Op. at 24, United States v. Meredith (D.D.C. May 26, 2021) (No. 21-0159 (SBJ))./ Source

Judge Amy Berman Jackson / U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia / 2021-05-27 / “Defendant's promise to take action in the future cannot be dismissed as an unlikely occurrence given that his singular source of information, see Reply ¶ 8 (“Trump's the only big shot I trust right now”), continues to propagate the lie that inspired the attack on a near daily basis.” / United States Of America, v. Karl Dresch, 2021 WL 2453166 at *8 (D.D.C. May 27, 2021) (No. CR 21-0071 (ABJ)). / Source

Judge Amy Berman Jackson / U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia / 2021-08-04 / He may very well have sincerely believed that the election had been unfair and tainted. I don't doubt that. But that belief was misguided. By that time even the Republican election officials in the challenged states had said over and over, when more than 60 judges across the country had said – including Republican judges, including judges appointed by President Trump himself -- had said over and over, there is no evidence behind these claims. At the end of the day the fact is that the defendant came to the Capitol because he placed his trust in someone who repaid that trust by lying to him. / Transcript of Plea and Sentence at 30, United States of America v. Karl Dresch (D.D.C. Aug 4, 2021) (No. 21-cr-71). / Source

Judge Amy Berman Jackson / U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia / 2021-12-01 / “And as for the incendiary statements at the rally detailed in the sentencing memo, which absolutely, quite clearly and deliberately, stoked the flames of fear and discontent and explicitly encouraged those at the rally to go to the Capitol and fight for one reason and one reason only, to make sure the certification did not happen, those may be a reason for what happened, they may have inspired what happened, but they are not an excuse or justification.” / Transcript of Sentencing at 22, United States v Russell Peterson, (D.D.C December 1, 2021) (No. 21-cr-309). / Source

Magistrate Judge Michael John Aloi / U.S. District Court for the Northern District of West Virginia 2021-03-22 / “Everyone in our country knows what happened on January 6th. We also generally know -- although, I don't know why Mr. Tanios was there and Mr. Khater was there -- but we know, looking at it now, that they were supporting the president who would not accept that he was defeated in an election. And it was on that day when Congress, under their oath, the Constitution was to certify the electoral college. That's not happenstance that they picked January 6th.” / United States v George Tanios, CRIMINAL ACTION NO. 1:21-mj-27 (N.D. W. Va. March 22, 2021) / Source

Judge David O. Carter / U.S. District Court for the Central District of California / 2022-03-28 / “The illegality of the plan was obvious. Our nation was founded on the peaceful transition of power, epitomized by George Washington laying down his sword to make way for democratic elections.239 Ignoring this history, President Trump vigorously campaigned for the Vice President to single-handedly determine the results of the 2020 election. As Vice President Pence stated, “no Vice President in American history has ever asserted such authority.” Every American—and certainly the President of the United States—knows that in a democracy, leaders are elected, not installed. With a plan this “BOLD,” President Trump knowingly tried to subvert this fundamental principle. Based on the evidence, the Court finds it more likely than not that President Trump corruptly attempted to obstruct the Joint Session of Congress on January 6, 2021.” / Eastman v. Thompson, 594 F. Supp. 3d 1156, 6-7 (C.D. Cal. 2022) / Source

Judge John D. Bates / U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia / 2022-12-28 / “These words [Trump’s J6 Speech] only encourage those at the rally to march to the Capitol—nothing more— and do not address legality at all. But, although his express words only mention walking down Pennsylvania Avenue to the Capitol, one might conclude that the context implies that he was urging protestors to do something more—perhaps to enter the Capitol building and stop the certification. But even if so, there is simply no indication that Trump informed the protestors that doing so would be legal, as required to make out either defense. His speech simply suggests that it would be an act of ‘boldness’ to ‘stop the steal.’” / Mem. Op. at 19, United States v. Alexander Sheppard (D.D.C. Dec. 28, 2022) (Criminal Action No. 21-203 (JDB)). / Source

Judge Beryl Howell / U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia / 2021-10-29 / “You admit you should have known better, but somehow that day you didn't. And you say that you headed to the Capitol Building not with any intent to obstruct and impede congressional proceedings; but because the then-President, Trump, told protesters at the "stop the steal" rally -- and I quote: After this, we're going to walk down; and I will be there with you. We're going to walk down. We're going to walk down. I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol Building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard. And you say that you wanted to show your support for and join then-President Trump as he said he would be marching to the Capitol; but, of course, didn't.” / Transcript of Sentencing at 36, United States v. Leonard Gruppo (D.D.C. Oct. 29, 2021) (No. 21-391). / Source

Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly / U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia / 2023-01-17 / “ [A]t the “Stop the Steal” rally, then-President Trump eponymously exhorted his supporters to, in fact, stop the steal by marching to the Capitol. Defendant marched to the Capitol where, she testified, she understood that only Congress had the power to fix the election’s outcome and that Congress was likely in session while she was around and in the Capitol. Having followed then-President Trump’s instructions, which were in line with her stated desires, the Court therefore finds that Defendant intended her presence to be disruptive to Congressional business.” / United States v. MacAndrew, 2022 WL 17983533 at 15 (D.D.C. Jan. 17, 2023) (No. CR 21-730 (CKK)). / Source

Judge Reggie B. Walton / U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia / 2022-04-14 / "You know, I think our democracy is in trouble. Because unfortunately, we have charlatans like our former president, who doesn't in my view really care about democracy, but only about power. And as a result of that, it's tearing this country apart. I have a concern that we have, unfortunately, American citizens who were so gullible that they were willing to accept what was being said without any proof that the allegations about the election had any merit whatsoever. People are just outraged at how they feel our system is not taking seriously what happened on that day because of their fear of the future of this country." / United States v. Thompson, 21-cr-161 (D.D.C. Apr. 14, 2022) / Source

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Trump lawyer [Evan Corcoran] CONFESSES and throws Trump Under the Bus
by Michael Popok
MeidasTouch
May 30, 2023

Michael Popok of Legal AF reports on breaking developments in the Jack Smith Mar a Lago criminal investigation with former Trump attorney Evan Corcoran confessing that he was mislead as to the location of all the national security and classified documents by both Trump himself and Trump’s associates while searching Mar a Lago to comply with the DOJ subpoena, as the prosecutors continue to squeeze Trump’s personal assistant Walt Nauta to flip.



Transcript

this is Michael popock legal AF. we
got some breaking news coming out of the
guardian and their investigative
reporting about Mar-A-Lago as Jack Smith
reaches his final recommendations to
indict Donald Trump related to the uh
stolen and mishandled National Security
information top secret classified
documents at Mar-A-Lago what's the new
information that's what this hot take is
about Evan Corcoran has told the grand
jury and prosecutors according to at
least two sources and told his own
Associates that he was misled about the
location of documents classified
National Security matters materials at
Mar-A-Lago by those closest to Donald
Trump himself and that Donald Trump
never told Evan Corcoran or disabused
them of the notion that the only
location for those documents was just in
one storage room when there was another
hundred that were sitting just inside of
Donald Trump's office and desk but Evan
Corcoran never searched those areas he
was he was told not to search those
areas he was told that all the
information all of the of the retained
improperly retained documents from the
White House were sitting in one location
but that was a lie so now you have the
the Department of Justice trying to get
to the bottom of why were there boxes
being moved by Walt nauta Donald Trump's
personal valet after the subpoena was
issued and while they were responding to
it this is even before the search
warrant The subpoena which is a demand
under under penalties of of perjury and
contempt review failed to respond is
issued by lawyers under the auspices of
a federal judge and requires that
documents be turned over over pursue it
to that subpoena if not then there's a
court process for contempt if that
doesn't work you go in and you get a
search warrant which is what they did so
you've got a June subpoena and an August
search warrant against Donald Trump why
the Department of Justice wants to know
why did Donald Trump give the
instructions for Walt now to move boxes
in and out of the storage room that same
room that they directed Evan Corcoran to
look to look for documents it was the
only place they spoon-fed misled Evan
Corcoran the lawyer for Donald Trump and
said just look in the storage room
that's where all the documents are don't
go into Daddy's office don't go into
Daddy's desk drawer there's nothing for
you to see there and Evan Corcoran said
okay
but Evan corcoran's problem is he signed
along with Christina Bob a certificate
under penalty of perjury that they
conducted a diligent search and that
they only found 38
documents top secret classified National
Security documents and they put it in a
sealed envelope and gave it to the
Department of Justice the Department of
Justice already knew from other
witnesses that that was false that there
were documents in other rooms at
Mar-A-Lago specifically the office and
desk so they caught Evan Corcoran in in
a trap now Evan corcoran's defense is
that's what I was told by my client
that's what I was told by Donald Trump I
was told that the only place to look I
needed to look was the storage room and
that's the only place I looked and I
needed Walt now to open the doors
because he had the keys and when Walt
now to ask to sit in while I did my
review I said no but that's the only
place that I searched so that's the new
testimony we know now from Evan Corcoran
why do we know about it now
why haven't we heard about this before
because let's be frank the Department of
Justice is doing strategic leaking of
this information to put pressure on
people like Walt nauta who as of right
now have not fully cooperated with the
Department of Justice
in fact Walton out his lawyers have been
told by the Department of Justice and
and the special counsel prosecutors that
their client is in deep deep
that their client has not been truthful
and accurate in giving his information
to the Department of Justice which is a
potential crime and they want Walt now
to to play ball against Donald Trump and
as of yet they haven't so you see these
strategic leaks that I can report on in
this particular hot take that's where we
are as of right now
we know that Evan Corcoran is throwing
Donald Trump under the bus and saying I
was misled I was sent into the into the
storage room that's where I told
document I was told documents were and I
didn't search anywhere else
and how do we know all this from Evan
Corcoran because he turned over 50 pages
of attorney notes that he took in
conversation with his client Donald
Trump Donald Trump's aides Walt nouda
and others and he had to turn it over to
the Department of Justice because he was
ordered to
but when the Department of Justice
sought to uh have him drop the
attorney-client privilege the most
sacrosanct privilege between a lawyer
and a client got ripped away from Donald
Trump who holds the privilege and his
lawyer Evan Corcoran because judge Beryl
Howell the then chief judge of the D.C
Circuit Court who oversees all grand
juries she ruled that there was likely a
crime or fraud being perpetrated by
Donald Trump
and therefore under the crime fraud
exception of the attorney-client
privilege she stripped the
attorney-client privilege away from
Donald Trump made Evan Corcoran testify
without it about every deepest darkest
conversation he had with his client had
to be revealed to the
um Grand Jury about Mar-A-Lago and the
handling of those documents and his own
documents his case his file his client
file how to be turned over
and now we know how big of a problem it
is and what the focus of the Department
of Justice is they have video
surveillance uh cameras from the Trump
organization out in front of the doors
of the storage room and they saw two
things well they saw one thing and one
thing they didn't see
they saw Walt Nauta the day before right
after the subpoena was issued
moving boxes in and out of the storage
room and they don't know exactly where
the boxes that were taken out went next
is that bet Minster
because we have a maintenance worker who
testified already and has cooperated
with the Department of Justice that he
helped Walt now to load an SUV to drive
to Bedminster from Mar-A-Lago
for those that are not from this country
or don't know geography that is a
18-hour drive from Mar-A-Lago to
Bedminster New Jersey
filled with boxes Department of Justice
wants to get to the bottom of it will we
see a subpoena and or search warrant for
Bedminster Golf Course
I predict we will but they're trying the
Department of Justice to get Walt nouda
right to flip
he has it as of yet
these strategic media placements of this
news like today will help them with that
Evan Corcoran and his testimony that he
got misled by Donald Trump and that
Donald Trump never told him to go look
where he knew that the boxes were in his
office that's a problem that's called
Criminal Intent for Donald Trump as they
try to come up with the motive for why
this this ex-president held on to these
documents and wouldn't let him be pulled
out of his dead cold fingers
why and of course now we know the
Department of Justice is also searching
through records and subpoenas about
foreign relations between Donald Trump
and foreign powers
because they found boxes and and uh
documents related to those foreign
powers in the office in the desk during
the search warrant that's the connected
links there the new reporting today will
continue to follow Evan Corcoran saying
I was misled by my own client Walt nauta
talking about uh moving of documents and
having him cooperate the video camera as
I said before they saw Walt nauta what
they didn't see is there are gaps in the
video this is like the Nixon you know 18
minutes of missing audio during
Watergate where it where are the video
where's the video for critical moments
they've already the Department of
Justice have subpoenaed and interviewed
um uh Matt calamari and Matt calamari Jr
the two heads of security for the Trump
organization they're cooperating
and they've subpoenaed the company the
video surveillance company that that
manages those video cameras where why
are why are there gaps
and the Department of Justice is trying
to get to the bottom of it
as they tie all this together in time
to go make their recommendation in a
report to Merrick Garland the Attorney
General
who will then after the full
presentation of the material right
one of the most uh important historical
PowerPoint presentations in American
history is coming up
with with uh Jack Smith his team of
prosecutors and Merrick Garland on at
least Mar-A-Lago if not the three or
four other grand juries that are looking
at other Trump criminality
and then from there back to the grand
jury to seek the indictment
which will initially be sealed and then
unsealed for the American public
there that's where we're at for those
that are scratching their head and
rubbing their eyes like can they believe
it justice is finally going to be done
Justice is finally going to be done
people that didn't think Donald Trump
would ever been indicted would ever be
indicted or convicted his entities got
convicted 17 times in New York for tax
fraud he's been indicted
now we're talking about the federal
indictments likely by Jack Smith and his
team that have been working around the
clock for the last eight months
and then of course funny Willis in
Georgia
the prosecutor who has already declared
that she's going to be seeking an
indictment of people
read those read that as Donald Trump and
others at the end of July the beginning
of August
this is the summer of accountability
right last year was the was the year of
Investigation this year is the year of
indictment and trial setting
and 2023 and 2024 are the trials
yes it's going to coincide with the U.S
election
but so what
he'll have to run Donald Trump will have
to run
for office as the leading as he likes to
say the leading candidate for the
Republican nomination or for the whole
presidency as a twice impeached multiply
indicted potentially convicted
a judged sex abuser
candidate and if that is okay with the
majority of the Republicans that vote
so be it he will go down in flames and
lose horribly to the president of the
United States Joe Biden
that's the reporting for today I'll
continue to report on the Evan Corcoran
Mar-A-Lago Walt Nauta connections on hot
takes just like this one only on the
Meidas touch Network on Wednesdays and
Saturdays I do a
um I co-anchor a podcast that is at the
intersection of U.S law and politics
called Legal AF you can follow us on
YouTube and every place you get your
podcast and if you like what I'm doing
on content like this one give me a
thumbs up it's helpful to what we do
it's meaningful to me as are the
comments and you can follow me Michael
popock on all things social media at Ms
popoc this is Michael popock legal
AF reporting

[admin]

Trump Bucks SCAM Exposed DESTROYING Life Savings of MAGA Followers
by Ben Meiselas
MeidasTouch
May 30, 2023

MeidasTouch host Ben Meiselas reports on the latest grift targeting Donald Trump supporters. It’s called ‘Trump Bucks.’ Seriously.



Transcript

I'm Ben Meiselas from the Meidas touch
Network let's take a look at the newest
Maga Republican grift it's called Trump
bucks and what's been happening is that
Mega followers have been going into
banks with these Trump bucks these Trump
dollar bills and gold coins that they've
been purchasing online which they've
been told they will get 10x or 50x
returns from and the banks have been
telling them we don't accept your Trump
bucks here NBC broke this story the
article was called Trump bucks promise
wealth for Maga loyalty some lose
thousands you think the products are
advertised online as a kind of golden
ticket that will help Propel Trump's
2024 bid and make the quote real
Patriots who support him Rich when they
are cashed in the article covers one
Trump supporter in particular named John
Ammon of course his Twitter handle is
johnama
348-28664 and it says alert if you
purchased any of the trb systems items
you got scammed the trb vouchers Donald
J trumpgoldenchecks Donald J Trump
Diamond checks trb golden checks have no
monetary value they are only
commemorative only you think the article
goes on to talk about how these Mega
Republicans believe that Trump's ouster
was part of a great conspiracy and that
by investing in the Trump rebate banking
system trb the Trump rebate banking
system or trb for short Trump will
reward their loyalty
by making them Rich those who buy these
items the ads from a company called
Patriots dynasty Patriots future and USA
Patriots suggest will be rewarded when
Trump unveils a new monetary system that
will turn these products into legal
tender worth far more than the purchase
price invest in a trb membership card
quote issued by Donald Trump the ads
from Patriot Dynasty Patriots future and
USA Patriots claim and the purchaser who
spent say
99.99 on a ten thousand dollar Diamond
Trump bucks bill will be able to cash it
in for ten thousand dollars at Major
Banks and retailers like Walmart Costco
and Home Depot of course this is all all
a fraud by the way here is the website
for the trb collect card just so you see
what it looks like and this is what it
says it goes the trb black collect card
is here it is finally time to claim what
is yours make your dreams come true
because this is your only chance to get
a hold of the trb black collect card we
know all of you have been waiting
patiently for so long and now is the
time when you will have everything that
was promised with President Trump you
always have a chance for a better future
week leave strong stay glad to see so
many of you are strong Patriots and it
goes on to say makes a perfect gift for
other Patriots and Trump supporters live
the American dream live the life you
were promised and get the things you
always wanted without thinking twice
enjoy the benefits as a trump supporter
there are 74 million Americans and a
hundred million around the world Trump
supporters the trb membership is an
official validation to the customer for
being a member of the trb club which
strives to be the biggest supporters
Club of Donald Trump all United in one
goal to do whatever they can to support
him and here's the thing folks there has
been this entire ecosystem built around
Donald Trump's script and this is just
one of countless examples and it's
predatory and preying on people frankly
who magger Republicans are attacking
each and every day with their policies
and they are being grifted upon and lied
to with all of these fake claims
meanwhile the actual political party is
getting them all angry about whatever
issued du jour of their culture War of
the day meanwhile they're picking their
pockets each and every day quite
literally it's got a bunch of
weird fake looking reviews from these
people and it's and it's just sad to see
it's like these photos of families
someone named Charlotte I originally
ordered 10 trb black cards but I had to
come back to order 20 more my friends
were really happy when they received
them oh that sounds legit Ted and
Miranda right I'm a loyal supporter of
Donald Trump and I can say that this trb
black card changed my life my family
sure loved them I'm not going to read
you uh the others uh the article goes on
to talk about how trb system membership
cards are official cards this is what
the false claim is issued by Donald
Trump to allow Trump bucks holders to
use Trump bucks as legal tender and
deposit them in Banks such as JPMorgan
Chase the Bank of America and Wells
Fargo a narrator identified only as John
says in the advertisements and all of
that is completely false the article
then goes on to highlight a Alabama
Grand grandmother who brought the Trump
bucks into a Bank of America and the
teller told her she'd seen dozens of
people coming in to cash these products
but it's a fraud here's what the article
says one 75 year old Alabama grandmother
who consented to having her picture
taken by NBC but asked not to be
identified by name for fear of Internet
harassment told NBC News the message she
got from watching the pitches on the
internet was that Trump was going to
make her rich
but the grandmother who describes
herself as quote a real Patriot said
what she got for the fifteen hundred
dollars she invested in the Trump bucks
turned out to be Fool's Gold quote I saw
all these ads on telegram that had Trump
pushing coins and checks that he
endorsed and how you can cash them in
after a year and make a profit the
grandmother who lives uh is told NBC I
was told how you can go back to I was
told how you can go to Bank of America
or Target or Amazon to cash them in
about six months ago the grandmother
said she gathered up the Trump bucks and
commemorative coins she had purchased
and drove 60 miles east to the nearest
Bank of America branch she could find in
Pensacola Florida there she said she was
greeted by a teller who told her she'd
been scammed quote when we get there the
lady tells me she's been seeing dozens
of people coming in to cash these checks
and they they have nothing to do with
this the grandmother said it of course
that was happening in Florida a Florida
woman who lives north of Tampa and who
also asked not to be identified by name
because she fears internet harassment
said her 77 year old grandmother-in-law
was also fooled into investing tens of
thousands of dollars into Trump bucks
quote my mother-in-law has always been
conservative and prone to believe in
conspiracy theories that doesn't make
her conservative we need to stop calling
these Trump supporters conservative
but quote but after Trump lost the
election she went down the internet
rabbit hole with this to prove to our
mother-in-law that she had been swindled
the Florida woman said she drove her to
a nearby Bank and urged her to try to
redeem the Trump bucks in her possession
quote we thought she got it she even
admitted she got scammed the Florida
woman said quote but then giant boxes
arrived at the house full of trump
checks and other stuff she bought for
five hundred dollars and that would
supposedly be worth six million dollars
one day we tell her she's getting
scammed and she says quote just wait
Trump will make all the Patriots Rich
quote it's like she's in a cult the
Florida woman said now as from Donald
Trump in the Trump campaign according to
this NBC article repeated attempts to
reach a spokesperson for Trump and his
re-election campaign by email have gone
unanswered but no evidence suggests that
the alleged scammers are connected to
Trump or his re-election campaign but I
will say this if you go to truth social
don't go but if you do which I do
because I do these reports you will see
on these that the ads on Truth social
are for products that look very similar
okay I don't know if these products are
the same ones that are talked about in
the NBC article but look at this this is
on Trump's social media platform what's
being advertised
patriotsurging.com Trump issues free one
thousand dollar bill to all supporters
claim yours now this is an ad ostensibly
Trump is getting paid for this if this
is on true social here's another one
from Newsmax during the
Trump speech and you know the links
between Newsmax and Donald Trump and the
right-wing ecosystem where it says
Trump's speech special free gold coin
unqualifying orders if you just text
Trump to that phone number here's
another ad by the way on Truth social
tired of overpaying woke insurance
companies this is the insurance company
endorsed by Don Jr and as I talked about
before there is this entire grifting
ecosystem modeled after Donald Trump's
ultimate grift if you ever go to
um watch any of these videos we post
about these Trump rallies for example
it's all of these trumpers like grifting
off of other trumpers like that's it's
an ecosystem of grift here's one for
example from a trump rally back in 2021
where they were selling women's P
funnels for fifteen dollars during the
rally and the same booth that selling P
funnels was selling the Cowboy Coffee as
well so Cowboy Coffee what actually
looks free Cowboy Coffee if you buy the
women's pee funnel right there and then
you have all of these shirts that they
buy and it and they sell each other
it is very problematic folks going to
the story of the uh women who said that
her mother-in-law is in a cult we have
to call thisbBehavior by its name and
that's an accurate one but it's not the
other c word it's not conservative this
Behavior this is just not normal
behavior okay this is problematic
Behavior this is dangerous Behavior okay
and this is what the Republican party
has become today the Maga Republican
party deeply distressing but it is
important for us all in the
pro-democracy community to call it out
and that's what we do here on the Meidas
touch Network each and every day hit
subscribe on the YouTube channel we're
on our way to 1.5 million subscribers
thanks to your awesome support check us
out at patreon.com Meidas Touch
for the best
pro-democracy membership content and
wherever you get audio podcast subscribe
to the Meidas touch audio podcast as well
have a great day and hit subscribe on
our YouTube channel

*********************

‘Trump Bucks’ promise wealth for MAGA loyalty. Some lose thousands. The products are advertised online as a kind of golden ticket that will help propel Trump’s 2024 bid and make the “real patriots” who support him rich when they are cashed in.


Photo Illustration: Donald Trump and "membership cards" for the "Official TRB System". A get-rich-quick scam taking hold on the internet promises big profits to purchasers of "Trump Bucks" but instead delivers memorabilia that no bank will cash. NBC News / Getty Images; Golden Patriots Future
by Brandy Zadrozny and Corky Siemaszko
NBC News
May 27, 2023, 5:00 AM MDT

In the recesses of the internet where some of Donald Trump’s most fervent supporters stoke conspiracies and plot his return to the White House, suspected con artists have been mining their disappointment over the last presidential election for gold.

They’ve been peddling “Trump Bucks,” which are emblazoned with photos of the former president, and advertising them online as a kind of golden ticket that will help propel Trump’s 2024 bid and make the “real patriots” who support him rich when cashed in.

John Amann told NBC News he bought $2,200 worth of Trump Bucks and other items over the past year only to discover they were worthless when he tried to cash them in at his local bank. So he’s gone on Twitter to warn other Trump supporters not to fall for this scam.

John Amann
@JohnAma34828664·Follow
Alert if you purchased any of the TRB SYSTEMS ITEMS, YOU GOT SCAMMED. THE TRB VOUCHERS, DJT GOLDEN CHECKS, DJT DIAMOND CHECKS, TRB GOLDEN CHECKS have no monetary values they are COMMEMORATIVE ONLY.
3:58 AM · Feb 3, 2023

NBC News has identified the Colorado-based companies behind the Trump Bucks as Patriots Dynasty, Patriots Future and USA Patriots and reviewed dozens of social posts, online complaints and hundreds of misleading ads for the products. Additionally, NBC News has found at least a dozen people like Amann who say they invested thousands of dollars after watching the pitches on Telegram and other websites that strongly suggested that Trump himself was endorsing these products.

“Now I’m questioning whether he is aware of this,” Amann said of Trump.

Repeated attempts to reach a spokesperson for Trump and his re-election campaign by email have gone unanswered. No evidence suggests the alleged scammers are connected to Trump or his re-election campaign.

In addition to tweeting a warning to others about the scam, Amann said he posted a review on TrustPilot, a website where consumers can rate and review businesses.

The Federal Trade Commission, in response to a Freedom of Information Act request from NBC News, confirmed it has received one fraud complaint against Patriots Dynasty that was filed in January. But it provided no further details about the single complaint or who filed it.

The Better Business Bureau has given the companies, which operate out of an industrial center in the Denver suburb of Aurora, an F rating, and the 33 complaints on the BBB site are unsparing in their criticism of the company.

Repeated attempts to reach representatives for the companies by phone and email were unsuccessful. But Bank of America spokesman Bill Halldin said he’s heard reports from bank employees of customers coming in to exchange their Trump Bucks for actual cash, but the bank routinely turns them down.

“It’s hard to put a number on how many people have come in,” Halldin said when asked for more specifics about who these people are and where they are located.

BOA, as a matter of course, is continually on the lookout for fraudsters and circulates information in-house about possible scams, Halldin said.

That’s little comfort to Amann, who is 77 and lives in Houston. “There’s no way to cash out what I have,” he said.

What it is

Since 2020, when Joe Biden defeated Trump in the presidential election, internet hucksters have been selling pro-Trump products like coins, checks and cards and marketing them as novelty items.

The fine print on the websites offering these items usually notes that they are memorabilia.

But on social media and in promotional videos — many featuring faked celebrity endorsements — the sellers have tapped an audience that believes Trump’s ouster was part of a great conspiracy and that by investing in the Trump Rebate Banking System, or TRB for short, Trump will reward their loyalty by making them rich.

Those who buy these items, the ads from Patriots Dynasty, Patriots Future and USA Patriots suggest, will be rewarded when Trump unveils a new monetary system that will turn these products into legal tender worth far more than the purchase price.


A booklet, a check and a collection of coins an Alabama grandmother bought when she invested $1,500 in “Trump Bucks.” Dan Anderson for NBC News

Invest in a TRB membership card “issued by Donald Trump,” the ads from Patriots Dynasty, Patriots Future and USA Patriots claim, and the purchaser who spent, say, $99.99 on a “$10,000 Diamond Trump Bucks” bill will be able to cash it in for $10,000 at major banks and retailers like Walmart, Costco and Home Depot.

“TRB system membership cards are official cards issued by Donald Trump to allow Trump Bucks holders to use Trump Bucks as legal tender and deposit them in banks such as JP Morgan Chase, the Bank of America and Wells Fargo,” a narrator identified only as “John” that appears to be a computer-generated voice says in one YouTube ad just moments after cautioning viewers that “Trump Bucks are not legal tender.”

“Wells Fargo has no affiliation with this product, and cannot accept it for deposit,” a bank spokesperson said.

JP Morgan Chase did not immediately respond to an email from NBC News seeking additional comment.

It’s a get-rich-quick scam that is catnip to a certain kind of Trump supporter — including QAnon believers and others who believe the former president is the only solution to America’s problems.

NBC also reached out to representatives for Walmart, Costco and Home Depot by email to see if they’ve had customers come in to try to cash in their Trump Bucks.

“We don’t have any connection to this, and it isn’t a problem we’re seeing at our stores,” Home Depot spokesman Terrance Roper said in an email to NBC News.

Walmart spokesman Robert Arrieta said “we have not heard of this scam.”


An Alabama grandmother holds one of the coins she bought online in her apartment in Mobile on May 19. Dan Anderson for NBC News

“We don’t have any program that resembles this,” Arrieta said and referred a reporter to the company’s fraud alert page.

Michael J. Clark, a former FBI agent who teaches criminal justice at the University of New Haven, said it’s likely many of the victims have not yet figured out they’ve been conned.

“If this is indeed a scam, the victims have not had enough time to realize they have been scammed as they will be awaiting the result of the 2024 presidential elections to receive the benefit of their initial outlay of money,” Clark said via email.

How it spreads

Fawning reviews are posted on dozens of websites with the headlines “SCAM OR LEGIT” that can stack Google with positive results and in hundreds of YouTube videos.

In AI-generated promotional videos shared on social media and in chat groups, celebrities and politicians, including Trump, appear to endorse the scam.

In one, Trump appears to announce the launch of the TRB system on Fox News.

“Let’s make America wealthy again,” the artificially generated voice of Trump says.

In another, Twitter-owner Elon Musk appears to say “That Trump certificate is not a joke, it’s real. Everyone needs to get as many as they can. I spend one million dollars on Trump certificates and this week I’m going to cash out my Trump items. Soon I will be the richest person on the planet again.”

In reality, the advertisement features footage lifted from Musk’s appearance at a TED event in 2022. The video ends with a slide advertising a free app that promises to “make your favorite celebrity say anything.

It’s so pervasive that even pro-Trump websites and Trump supporters have been sounding the alarm.

Blogger Noah Christopher, who is the moderator of the “WeLoveTrump” Telegram group with 26,000 subscribers, has urged his followers more than 30 times this year alone to “not get conned.”

“The faked videos have been posted relentlessly by fake social media accounts on Facebook, TikTok, and in Telegram groups catering to devoted Trump supporters,” Noah wrote last month. “Unreal how pervasive and aggressive this scam is.”

Christopher did not respond to an email from NBC News seeking additional comment.

One 75-year-old Alabama grandmother, who consented to having her picture taken but asked not to be identified by name for fear of internet harassment, told NBC News the message she got from watching the pitches on the internet was that Trump was going to make her rich.

But the grandmother, who describes herself as a “real patriot,” said what she got for the $1,500 she invested in Trump Bucks turned out to be fool’s gold.


An Alabama grandmother said a Bank of America teller told her that she'd seen dozens of people coming in to cash the products. Dan Anderson for NBC News

“I saw all these ads on Telegram that had Trump pushing coins and checks that he endorsed and how you can cash them in after a year and make a profit,” the grandmother, who lives in Mobile, told NBC News. “I was told how you can go to Bank of America or Target or Amazon to cash them in.”

About six months ago, the grandmother said, she gathered up the Trump Bucks and commemorative coins she had purchased and drove 60 miles east to the nearest Bank of America branch she could find in Pensacola, Florida.

There, she said, she was greeted by a teller who told her she’d been scammed.

“When we get there the lady tells me she’s seen dozens of people coming in to cash these checks and they have nothing to do with this,” the grandmother said.

A Florida woman who lives north of Tampa, and who also asked not to be identified by name because she fears internet harassment, said her 77-year-old mother-in-law was also fooled into investing tens of thousands of dollars in Trump Bucks.

“My mother-in-law has always been conservative and prone to believe in conspiracy theories,” she said. “But after Trump lost the election, she went down the internet rabbit hole with this.”

This isn’t the first time her mother-in-law has fallen prey to a Trump-inspired scam.

“Several years back, she got into Nesara, which says that a radical reset of the U.S. economy is coming and all debts are going to be wiped out,” the Florida woman said. “She thinks she’s getting all the money back and that she’ll make a huge profit too.”

First, the Florida woman said, her mother-in-law “started buying all this support Trump memorabilia from a website that clearly states it's memorabilia.”


Patriots Dynasty, Patriots Future and USA Patriots claim purchasers will be able to cash in coins and checks like these at major banks and retailers like Walmart, Costco and Home Depot. Dan Anderson for NBC News

“From there, she went to other sites which has all sorts of people claiming that if you buy these Trump coins or these Trump checks for, say, a hundred dollars, you’ll be able to take them to a bank and cash them in for thousands of dollars.”

To prove to her mother-in-law that she had been swindled, the Florida woman said she drove her to a nearby bank and urged her to try to redeem the Trump Bucks in her possession.

“We thought she got it, she even admitted she got scammed,” the Florida woman said. “But then giant boxes arrived at the house full of Trump checks and other stuff that she bought for $500 and that would supposedly be worth $6 million one day. We tell her she’s getting scammed and she says, ‘Just wait, Trump will make all the patriots rich.’”

“It’s like she’s in a cult,” the Florida woman said.

Who profits?Good question. It’s not clear who concocted the TRB system scheme or created the fake promotional videos.

A 2022 New York Times investigation reported a Romanian marketing company to be at the origin of so-called Trump coins — which had been wildly popular in 2022 and were also fraudulently marketed as a kind of alternative currency.

Most of the posts and videos for the TRB system currently link to websites registered with the company names Patriots Dynasty, Patriots Future and USA Patriots, whose listed address can be traced to Shipoffers.com, a shipping center in Aurora, Colorado.

Shipoffers warehouse manager Josh Pier said the center ships Trump-related products but said it doesn't manufacture them. He declined to discuss what those products are and would not confirm the names of the companies it ships for. The company handles shipping for a variety of companies, he said.

Pier was echoed by Tony Grebmeier, one of the Shipoffers owners, who said he was unaware of any problems with any of the products the company ships and said if he was aware of any issues he’d take care of them.

Responding to overwhelmingly negative Google reviews, Shipoffers tells unhappy buyers that it doesn't actually make the products or bill customers.

The TRB products are purchased through online retailers ClickBank and Digistore24, which are affiliate marketing networks based in Idaho and Florida that connect would-be promoters with products to sell and earn commissions.

The unique links posted across social media and in the captions of YouTube videos contain the usernames of these affiliate marketers, who get a cut from each sale generated by the fraudulent ads.

A list of URLS for just one website, shows hundreds of affiliate marketers associated with a TRB membership booklet, a product falsely marketed as necessary to redeem the TRB products for real money.

NBC News has also reached out to ClickBank, Digistore24 and ShipOffers for comment. When an NBC News reporter called the Patriots Dynasty phone number, she got a busy signal. There was also no response to an email sent to the address associated with Patriots Dynasty.


The Alabama grandmother said she initially thought the products were a good investment but realized later they were worthless. Dan Anderson for NBC News

The Alabama grandmother says she was initially fooled by the AI version of Trump she saw in the ads. She trusted Trump’s supposed business acumen and thought this was a good investment to have something to leave behind for her children.

“Now I realize, well, that was stupid,” she said. “But I bought them because I believed President Trump, because he knows all about finance, and he was going to help the real Trump Patriots get rich.”

Brandy Zadrozny is a senior reporter for NBC News. She covers misinformation, extremism and the internet.

Corky Siemaszko is a senior reporter for NBC News Digital.

Vicky Collins contributed.

[admin]

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/ ... uments.pdf

Jack Smith holds PRESS CONFERENCE on Trump INDICTMENT
by Ben Meiselas and Karen Agnifilo
MeidasTouch
Jun 9, 2023

Special Counsel Jack Smith held his first press conference since Donald Trump was criminally indicted in federal court in Florida.



Transcript

I'm Ben Meiselas from the Meidas touch
Network we are just moments away from
special counsel Jack Smith delivering a
press conference after Donald Trump has
been criminally indicted in federal
court in the southern district of
Florida that indictment has just been
unsealed I of course want to break down
everything that's in that indictment
with my co-host from legal AF Karen
Friedman agnifolo who joins us here as
well and uh Karen first I'm getting word
that special counsel Jack Smith is about
to give the press conference let's play
the press conference of special counsel
Jack Smith and then let's uh respond to
that and then let's go through the
indictment let's go to the press
conference
good afternoon
today an indictment was unsealed
charging Donald J Trump with felony
violations
of our national security laws as well as
participating in a conspiracy to
obstruct Justice
this indictment was voted by a grand
jury of citizens in the southern
district of Florida
and I invite everyone to read it in full
to understand the scope
and the gravity of the crimes charged
the men and women of the United States
intelligence community and our Armed
Forces dedicate their lives to
protecting our nation and its people
are laws that protect National Defense
information are critical to the Safety
and Security of the United States
and they must be enforced
violations of those laws put our country
at risk
adherence to the rule of law is a
Bedrock principle of the Department of
Justice
and our nation's commitment to the rule
of law sets an example for the world
we have one set of laws in this country
and they apply to everyone
applying those laws collecting facts
that's what determines the outcome of an
investigation
nothing more
and nothing less
the prosecutors in my office are among
the most talented
and experienced in the Department of
Justice
they have investigated this case hewing
to the highest ethical standards and
they will continue to do so as this case
proceeds
it's very important for me to note that
the defendants in this case must be
presumed innocent until proven guilty
Beyond A Reasonable Doubt in a court of
law
to that end my office will seek a speedy
trial in this matter
consistent with a public interest and
the rights of the accused
we very much look forward to presenting
our case to a jury of citizens in the
southern district of Florida
there you have it and uh special counsel
Jack Smith concluded his speech right
there walked off did not take any
further questions so there's nothing
else that we miss that's the entire
press conference that's bringing Karen
Friedman agnifolo co-host of legal AF
CNN correspondent Karen used to be of
course the number two at the Manhattan
District Attorney's office and has
provided incredible legal analysis here
on the Midas touch Network Karen
Friedman agnifolo what's your response
to that press conference before getting
into the recently unsealed indictment
yeah Jack Smith I think really felt like
he had to explain to the American people
what happened here and what's going on
you know I think that if you recall with
the Alvin Bragg case we knew that he was
indicted because his K because he was
surrendered uh he was given a surrender
date I'm sorry and so we knew that there
was a date he was going to come in and
then he because the indictment was
sealed he then managed to tell the
narrative and and give his version of
things and really spin the story so by
the time he was by the time he was
arraigned there he had the I think he
had the upper hand in terms of The
Narrative of the story of the Alvin Brad
case Well Jack Smith clearly learned
from that and wasn't going to give
Donald Trump uh the weekend to do all
his tweeting and his threatening and his
bullying and going on Fox News and and
you know saying all the things that he
will definitely say okay and instead
went to a judge and had this indictment
unsealed and released it and his press
conference was Jack Smith control
and what it is and what it is and he
urged people to read this indictment he
specifically said that and I urge people
to read this indictment it is not like
Alvin Bragg's indictment that is a Bare
Bones legal indictment which is typical
of most indictments this is what they
call a talking indictment or a speaking
indictment and it tells a story and Jack
Smith told a story here and he urged
people to come read the indictment he
thanked the people who worked on the
case and he said this isn't about
politics this is about one set of laws
that applies to everyone it applies to
everyone in this country and what we do
is we apply the law the facts to the law
nothing more nothing less they adhere to
high ethical standards they will
continue to do so he also reminded
everybody that defendants are presumed
innocent until proven guilty and he also
I think when he said we will to that and
we will seek a speedy trial I think what
he's trying to signal is he recognizes
there's an election coming up and he
wants to to get this done quickly so
that's what the statement spoke volumes
to me and I think that's the purpose
behind the indictment he has to get out
in front of Donald Trump who will go and
try and make this
you know his own sideshow
it was a very short but powerful Press
Conference held by special counsel Jack
Smith of course it was the first time
that we've heard from special counsel
Jack Smith is the first time we've heard
his voice and to your point he
emphasized he wants to pursue a speedy
trial at his office is adhering to the
highest ethical standards he mentioned
the fact that this is National Defense
information and the seriousness and the
gravity of the crimes being charged for
someone who mishandles that and treats
the National Security of our country uh
in such abhorrent ways and then special
counsel Jack Smith invited everybody to
read this unsealed indictment in full
let's talk about this unsealed
indictment uh this indictment was
announced on Thursday we got word about
it of course we reported about it here
on the Midas touch Network we knew there
were going to be a number of charges
including Espionage Act violations which
is the willful retention of National
Defense information we knew there was a
conspiracy count obstruction of justice
but we now have this full unsealed
indictment it is very detailed it has a
very detailed narrative component there
are 38 separate counts uh in this case
both Donald Trump and uh his personal
aide who was a valet When Donald Trump
was in the White House Walt now to then
a personal aide after Donald Trump left
the white house uh is also a criminal
defendant in this case and then of
course there's just a lot of detailed
text messages that were sent from Walt
now to others including Donald Trump's
family members talking about moving the
boxes messages from Walt now to other
employees he's talking about Donald
Trump moving the boxes and then of
course there are photographs of these
boxes that include highly classified
information so there are boxes in a
storage room in a Auditorium room there
are boxes that are in a bathroom and you
see classified documents that are just
like on the floor in a uh in a shower
and those are in this uh indictment so
Karen what were your main takeaways from
this indictment that was just unsealed
so again I I like Jack Smith I urge
everybody to read this indictment it
really does tell a powerful compelling
story of why this is a righteous
prosecution and why this isn't just a
situation of well everybody does it and
you know they found them at Biden's
house and they find classified documents
at Pence's house and it's an accident
and you know and thankfully in his CNN
Town Hall he took that it was an
accident uh defense off the table when
he said I I could possess it you know
there's nothing wrong with me possessing
it and and so he underscored the
willfulness in his own words but what
what Jack Smith uh and the Department of
Justice did in this indictment
is they really just
explained uh to everybody what is in
there and why this is an important case
and why this affects our national
security our military our foreign allies
our foreign enemies and how he really
possessed all of these documents that
were you know he Jack Smith talked about
the different classification levels he
spelled it out so that none of us had to
guess right some people might not know
what's is top secret more is that worse
than classified he spelled all all the
levels and he described them he even
talked about certain levels of class
classification that I have never heard
before one was called No foreign or
something that meant no foreign
government you know people should be
able to have access to this and he
spelled out all the classification
levels and and the briefings that Donald
Trump would get and then he went on to
describe in painstaking details scale
the efforts that the Department of
Justice made to to get these documents
and then the uh the criminal efforts
that Donald Trump with others including
Walt nada
did to conceal them that and they puts
the dates out there of you know on this
date we asked for something and then two
weeks later waltonatta moves the
document the boxes of documents so that
when we go search it you know it's not
it's not there and you know he just goes
through it in in detail
um there was and and so they really just
build a case I mean in some ways it's
like it's like the opening statement of
of the trial is really this indictment
you know they're going to talk about it
who who's Donald Trump who's Walt natto
what do they do who are these documents
what do they mean what is the
classification system who's allowed to
have them who's not what are the facts
that shows that Donald Trump knew that
he wasn't supposed to do this and they
talk about statements that Donald Trump
made during his campaign and while he
was president and so that he knew that
you have to be careful and that these
are things that you know are needed to
protect the nation and then Jack Smith
Goes On To You Know describe with photos
and and and uh evidence
um evidentiary photos in there of that
that's a box of documents of top secret
documents that Spilled Out and Walt NADA
took a picture of it and texted it
saying you know there's there's top
secret uh documents in here and this is
a room that is often unlocked there are
people who come in and out of there and
you know there's another another one uh
in his bathroom right so in his shower
in his bathroom those had had top secret
documents and then there was a ballroom
on a stage which I found stunning that
they said they were classified in top
secret National Security documents in
there and there were thousands of people
who came in and out of there I mean it's
on Mar-A-Lago itself isn't considered a
secure place to have these documents you
know these these documents some of them
are are only allowed to be looked at in
something called a skiff which
stands for I don't even remember what it
stands for
um instead of department and information
facility thank you there you go and and
Mar-A-Lago is not a skiff you know so
you the the fact that he had these
documents that anyone could get to
people went in and out it just really
and and that he didn't do it
unintentionally he did it intentionally
he knew he did it and they talked about
those that recording that we've heard
about uh in Bedminster New Jersey where
he was was waving around
um some kind of paper talking to
somebody in a in the in the mark Meadows
um uh autobiography you know he was he
was showing off that he had talked
secret information going oh but I'm not
supposed to show this to you you know
and whatever like so Jack Smith even
puts that in the indictment to show that
um you know that Trump knew what he was
doing so I just think it's stunning it's
dangerous he's he's a uh he's a danger
to to the world frankly I mean there
were nuclear codes of of a foreign
country I think it was I think you were
you were reading it earlier
um when we were talking about it count
five you know he had the nuclear codes
of a foreign country and I mean it's
just crazy you know the military
capabilities and attack plans I mean the
guy is just dangerous and so this was
this was a willful retention of
information related to the National
Defense and that's what this was
um you know I think it's a very
righteous prosecution and Jack Smith
made the case in this indictment to show
that this was a a righteous prosecution
yeah and I want to let's focus on just a
few more portions of this indictment
that was unsealed you go to page 44 you
see that it was signed by the four
person
um this you know this was uh not
special counsel Jack Smith just doing
this on his own this was not President
Biden right this was the Department of
Justice that appointed a special counsel
the special counsel presented to a grand
jury and a grand jury is who ultimately
voted to indict Donald Trump uh the
evidence against Donald Trump went
before a jury a grand jury of Donald
Trump's peers turning to uh paragraph
three of this unsealed indictment on
page two it talks about how the
classified documents Trump stored in his
boxes included information regarding
defense and weapons capabilities of both
the United States and foreign countries
United States nuclear programs potential
vulnerabilities of the United States and
its allies to military attack and plans
for possible retaliation in response to
a foreign attack the unauthorized
disclosure of these classified documents
could put out risk the National Security
of the United States far relations the
safety of the United States military and
human sources and the continued
viability of sensitive intelligence
collection methods you go to paragraph
six it talks about two specific
occasions where there is actually
recordings and documented proof where
Donald Trump was just showing classified
information and sensitive compartmented
information to just like random people
um in paragraph 6A it talks about how
Donald Trump was showing uh information
about plans regarding a military attack
involving Iran uh to uh to a ghost
writers who were writing Mark Meadows uh
book and then in 6B it talks about
Donald Trump showing a military map
involving classified military operations
to someone affiliated with his political
action organization the uh unsealed
indictment goes on to show those
photographs that we put up earlier where
these documents were being being kept at
Mar-A-Lago how they were just kind of on
the floor you see from this image that
we're showing right now you can actually
see the classified border on the
documents on the bottom right by the box
that's how it was just being kept and
again this is highly highly sensitive
information there's this photograph of
classified information being kept in a
bathroom the com the unsealed indictment
details uh how Walt nauta and Donald
Trump would try to move these documents
to different locations board them on
airplanes bring them to Bedminster and
then just one example of these text
messages there's a ton of examples of
text messages here that shows how uh
special counsel Jack Smith got a lot of
this information about
these documents being moved but you go
to page 22 and page 23 and it talks
about uh here let's go to page 23 uh and
this is from paragraph 58c and it says
on May 30th 2022 at 12 33 PM a trump
family member texted nauta good
afternoon Walt happy Memorial Day I saw
you put boxes to POTUS room just FYI and
I will tell him as well not sure how
many he wants to take on Friday on the
plane we will not have room for them
plane will be full of luggage thank you
and now to reply good afternoon ma'am
smiley face emoji thank you so much I
think he wanted to pick from them I
don't imagine him wanting to take the
boxes he told me to put them in the room
and that he was going to talk to you
about them there's countless other
examples like this but his picking from
the boxes to take classified information
with him from different locations and
we're even hearing from people in
Trump's orbit someone like a lawyer by
the name of Jonathan Turley who's like
the right wing kind of Spin Master who
always talks about the doj's politicized
and all of these things even he's saying
when he went on Fox that this was
incredibly damaging to Donald Trump and
this is a very serious indictment and
very very very damaging final words
Karen Friedman eggniffilo about the
press conference and everything we're
seeing yeah so I
indictment it was red
was written it wasn't written for
lawyers and and judges and I think it
really is important to to to read it
everybody to know it to be able to fight
back when people say but everybody does
it when his supporters say that and I
just think uh there's going to be a lot
more to come here you know that's going
that we're going to see but the
allegations are obviously very very
strong and it's a I think it's great
work that was done by Jack Smith and his
people and people like Evan Corcoran his
his lawyer you know the notes that he
took it's very clear that that was a
road map for Jack Smith to to know that
Donald to show Donald Trump's state of
mind that he was intimately involved in
the packing and the moving of these
boxes and of these documents that he
knew what he had and that this was a
willful intentional obstruction of
justice thank you very much Karen
Friedman agnifolo thank you everybody
who's watching this and we will of
course keep you posted as we learn more
we will do analysis on other aspects of
this indictment we'll do uh analysis of
what we expect to happen next and of
course any breaking news we will bring
to you here on the Midas touch Network
thank you for watching hit subscribe on
the YouTube channel And subscribe to the
legal AF podcast and don't forget to uh
watch legal AF live tomorrow at 5
Pacific 8 Eastern uh we could watch that
on Saturday five Pacific 8 Eastern have
a great day and hit subscribe

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Part 1 of 2

[First] Indictment
USDC, Southern District of Florida
United States of America v. Donald J. Trump and Waltine Nauta
Case No. 23-80101-CR-Cannon/Reinhart
by Jack Smith, Special Counsel
6/8/23

-- Superseding Indictment, USDC, Southern District of Florida, USA v. Donald Trump, Waltine Nauta, and Carlos De Oliveira, Case No. 23-CR-80101-CANNON(s), by Jack Smith, Special Counsel, 07/27/2023

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA

Case No. 23-80101-CR-CANNON/REINHART
18 U.S.C. § 793(e)
18 U.S.C. § 1512(k)
18 U.S.C. § 1512(b)(2)(A)
18 U.S.C. § 1512(c)(1)
18 U.S.C. § 1519
18 U.S.C. § 1001(a)(1)
18 U.S.C. § 1011(a)(2)
18 U.S.C. § 2

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
v.
DONALD J. TRUMP and WALTINE NAUTA,
Defendants.

INDICTMENT

The Grand Jury charges that:

GENERAL ALLEGATIONS

At times material to this Indictment, on or about the dates and approximate times stated below:

Introduction

1. Defendant DONALD J. TRUMP was the forty-fifth President of the United States of America. He held office from January 20, 2017, until January 20, 2021. As president, TRUMP had lawful access to the most sensitive classified documents and national defense information gathered and owned by the United States government, including information from the agencies that comprise the United States Intelligence Community and the United States Department of Defense.

2. Over the course of his presidency, TRUMP gathered newspapers, press clippings, letters, notes, cards, photographs, official documents, and other materials in cardboard boxes that he kept in the White House. Among the materials TRUMP stored in his boxes were hundreds of classified documents.

3. The classified documents TRUMP stored in his boxes included information regarding defense and weapons capabilities of both the United States and foreign countries; United States nuclear programs; potential vulnerabilities of the United States and its allies to military attack; and plans for possible retaliation in response to a foreign attack. The unauthorized disclosure of these classified documents could put at risk the national security of the United States, foreign relations, the safety of the United States military, and human sources and the continued viability of sensitive intelligence collection methods.

4. At 12:00 p.m. on January 20, 2021, TRUMP ceased to be president. As he departed the White House, TRUMP caused scores of boxes, many of which contained classified documents, to be transported to The Mar-a-Lago Club in Palm Beach, Florida, where he maintained his residence. TRUMP was not authorized to possess or retain those classified documents.

5. The Mar-a-Lago Club was an active social club, which, between January 2021 and August 2022, hosted events for tens of thousands of members and guests. After TRUMP's presidency, The Mar-a-Lago Club was not an authorized location for the storage, possession, review, display, or discussion of classified documents. Nevertheless, TRUMP stored his boxes containing classified documents in various locations at The Mar-a-Lago Club-including in a ballroom, a bathroom and shower, an office space, his bedroom, and a storage room.

6. On two occasions in 2021, TRUMP showed classified documents to others, as follows:

a. In July 2021, at Trump National Golf Club in Bedminster, New Jersey ("The Bedminster Club"), during an audio-recorded meeting with a writer, a publisher, and two members of his staff, none of whom possessed a security clearance, TRUMP showed and described a "plan of attack" that TRUMP said was prepared for him by the Department of Defense and a senior military official. TRUMP told the individuals that the plan was "highly confidential" and "secret." TRUMP also said, "as president I could have declassified it," and, "Now I can't, you know, but this is still a secret."

b. In August or September 2021, at The Bedminster Club, TRUMP showed a representative of his political action committee who did not possess a security clearance a classified map related to a military operation and told the representative that he should not be showing it to the representative and that the representative should not get too close.

7. On March 30, 2022, the Federal Bureau of Investigation ("FBI") opened a criminal investigation into the unlawful retention of classified documents at The Mar-a-Lago Club. A federal grand jury investigation began the next month. The grand jury issued a subpoena requiring TRUMP to turn over all documents with classification markings. TRUMP endeavored to obstruct the FBI and grand jury investigations and conceal his continued retention of classified documents by, among other things:

a. suggesting that his attorney falsely represent to the FBI and grand jury that TRUMP did not have documents called for by the grand jury subpoena;

b. directing defendant WALTINE NAUTA to move boxes of documents to conceal them from TRUMP's attorney, the FBI, and the grand jury;

c. suggesting that his attorney hide or destroy documents called for by the grand jury subpoena;

d. providing to the FBI and grand jury just some of the documents called for by the grand jury subpoena, while claiming that he was cooperating fully; and

e. causing a certification to be submitted to the FBI and grand jury falsely representing that all documents called for by the grand jury subpoena had been produced-while knowing that, in fact, not all such documents had been produced.

8. As a result of TRUMP's retention of classified documents after his presidency and refusal to return them, hundreds of classified documents were not recovered by the United States government until 2022, as follows:

a. On January 17, nearly one year after TRUMP left office, and after months of demands by the National Archives and Records Administration for TRUMP to provide all missing presidential records, TRUMP provided only 15 boxes, which contained 197 documents with classification markings.

b. On June 3, in response to a grand jury subpoena demanding the production of all documents with classification markings, TRUMP's attorney provided to the FBI 38 more documents with classification markings.

c. On August 8, pursuant to a court-authorized search warrant, the FBI recovered from TRUMP's office and a storage room at The Mar-a-Lago Club 102 more documents with classification markings.

TRUMP's Co-Conspirator

9. Defendant NAUTA was a member of the United States Navy stationed as a valet in the White House during TRUMP's presidency. Beginning in August 2021, NAUTA became an executive assistant in The Office of Donald J. Trump and served as TRUMP's personal aide or "body man." NAUTA reported to TRUMP, worked closely with TRUMP, and traveled with TRUMP.

The Mar-a-Lago Club

10. The Mar-a-Lago Club was located on South Ocean Boulevard in Palm Beach, Florida, and included TRUMP's residence, more than 25 guest rooms, two ballrooms, a spa, a gift store, exercise facilities, office space, and an outdoor pool and patio. As of January 2021, The Mar-a-Lago Club had hundreds of members and was staffed by more than 150 full-time, part-time, and temporary employees.

11. Between January 2021 and August 2022, The Mar-a-Lago Club hosted more than 150 social events, including weddings, movie premieres, and fundraisers that together drew tens of thousands of guests.

12. The United States Secret Service (the "Secret Service") provided protection services to TRUMP and his family after he left office, including at The Mar-a-Lago Club, but it was not responsible for the protection of TRUMP's boxes or their contents. TRUMP did not inform the Secret Service that he was storing boxes containing classified documents at The Mar-a-Lago Club.

Classified Information

13. National security information was information owned by, produced by, produced for, and under the control of the United States government. Pursuant to Executive Order 12958, signed on April 17, 1995, as amended by Executive Order 13292 on March 25, 2003, and Executive Order 13526 on December 29, 2009, national security information was classified as "TOP SECRET," "SECRET," or "CONFIDENTIAL," as follows:

a. Information was classified as TOP SECRET if the unauthorized disclosure of that information reasonably could be expected to cause exceptionally grave damage to the national security that the original classification authority was able to identify or describe.

b. Information was classified as SECRET if the unauthorized disclosure of that information reasonably could be expected to cause serious damage to the national security that the original classification authority was able to identify or describe.

c. Information was classified as CONFIDENTIAL if the unauthorized disclosure of that information reasonably could be expected to cause damage to the national security that the original classification authority was able to identify or describe.

14. The classification marking "NOFORN" stood for "Not Releasable to Foreign Nationals" and denoted that dissemination of that information was limited to United States persons.

15. Classified information related to intelligence sources, methods, and analytical processes was designated as Sensitive Compartmented Information ("SCI"). SCI was to be processed, stored, used, or discussed in an accredited Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility ("SCIF"), and only individuals with the appropriate security clearance and additional SCI permissions were authorized to have access to such national security information.

16. When the vulnerability of, or threat to, specific classified information was exceptional, and the normal criteria for determining eligibility for access to classified information were insufficient to protect the information from unauthorized disclosure, the United States could establish Special Access Programs ("SAPs") to further protect the classified information. The number of these programs was to be kept to an absolute minimum and limited to programs in which the number of persons who ordinarily would have access would be reasonably small and commensurate with the objective of providing enhanced protection for the information involved. Only individuals with the appropriate security clearance and additional SAP permissions were authorized to have access to such national security information, which was subject to enhanced handling and storage requirements.

17. Pursuant to Executive Order 13526, information classified at any level could be lawfully accessed only by persons determined by an appropriate United States government official to be eligible for access to classified information and who had signed an approved non-disclosure agreement, who received a security clearance, and who had a "need-to-know" the classified information. After his presidency, TRUMP was not authorized to possess or retain classified documents.

18. Executive Order 13526 provided that a former president could obtain a waiver of the "need-to-know" requirement, if the agency head or senior agency official of the agency that originated the classified information: (1) determined in writing that access was consistent with the interest of national security and (2) took appropriate steps to protect classified information from unauthorized disclosure or compromise and ensured that the information was safeguarded in a manner consistent with the order. TRUMP did not obtain any such waiver after his presidency.

The Executive Branch Departments and Agencies Whose Classified Documents TRUMP Retained After His Presidency

19. As part of his official duties as president, TRUMP received intelligence briefings from high-level United States government officials, including briefings from the Director of the Central Intelligence Agency, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, senior White House officials, and a designated briefer. He regularly received a collection of classified intelligence from the United States Intelligence Community ("USIC") known as the "President's Daily Brief."

20. The USIC's mission was to collect, analyze, and deliver foreign intelligence and counterintelligence information to America's leaders, including the president, policymakers, law enforcement, and the military, so they could make sound decisions to protect the United States. The USIC consisted of United States executive branch departments and agencies responsible for the conduct of foreign relations and the protection of national security.

21. After his presidency, TRUMP retained classified documents originated by, or implicating the equities of, multiple USIC members and other executive branch departments and agencies, including the following:

a. The Central Intelligence Agency ("CIA"). CIA was responsible for providing intelligence on foreign countries and global issues to the president and other policymakers to help them make national security decisions.

b. The Department of Defense ("DoD"). DoD was responsible for providing the military forces needed to deter war and ensure national security. Some of the executive branch agencies comprising the USIC were within DoD.

c. The National Security Agency. The National Security Agency was a combat support agency within DoD and a member of the USIC responsible for foreign signals intelligence and cybersecurity. This included collecting, processing, and disseminating to United States policymakers and military leaders foreign intelligence derived from communications and information systems; protecting national security systems; and enabling computer network operations.

d. The National Geospatial Intelligence Agency. The National Geospatial Intelligence Agency was a combat support agency within DoD responsible for the exploitation and analysis of imagery, imagery intelligence, and geospatial information in support of the national security objectives of the United States and the geospatial intelligence requirements of DoD, the Department of State, and other federal agencies.

e. The National Reconnaissance Office. The National Reconnaissance Office was an agency within DoD responsible for developing, acquiring, launching, and operating space-based surveillance and reconnaissance systems that collected and delivered intelligence to enhance national security.

f. The Department of Energy. The Department of Energy was responsible for maintaining a safe, secure, and effective nuclear deterrent to protect national security, including ensuring the effectiveness of the United States nuclear weapons stockpile without nuclear explosive testing.

g. The Department of State and Bureau of Intelligence and Research. The Department of State was responsible for protecting and promoting United States security, prosperity, and democratic values. Within the Department of State, the Bureau of Intelligence and Research was a member of the USIC and responsible for providing intelligence to inform diplomacy and support United States diplomats.

TRUMP's Public Statements on Classified Information

22. As a candidate for President of the United States, TRUMP made the following public statements, among others, about classified information:

a. On August 18, 2016, TRUMP stated, "In my administration I'm going to enforce all laws concerning the protection of classified information. No one will be above the law."

b. On September 6, 2016, TRUMP stated, "We also need to fight this battle by collecting intelligence and then protecting, protecting our classified secrets. ... We can't have someone in the Oval Office who doesn't understand the meaning of the word confidential or classified."

c. On September 7, 2016, TRUMP stated, "[O]ne of the first things we must do is to enforce all classification rules and to enforce all laws relating to the handling of classified information."

d. On September 19, 2016, TRUMP stated, "We also need the best protection of classified information."

e. On November 3, 2016, TRUMP stated, "Service members here in North Carolina have risked their lives to acquire classified intelligence to protect our country."

23. As President of the United States, on July 26, 2018, TRUMP issued the following statement about classified information:

As the head of the executive branch and Commander in Chief, I have a unique, Constitutional responsibility to protect the Nation's classified information, including by controlling access to it. ... More broadly, the issue of [a former executive branch official's] security clearance raises larger questions about the practice of former officials maintaining access to our Nation's most sensitive secrets long after their time in Government has ended. Such access is particularly inappropriate when former officials have transitioned into highly partisan positions and seek to use real or perceived access to sensitive information to validate their political attacks. Any access granted to our Nation's secrets should be in furtherance of national, not personal, interests.

TRUMP's Retention of Classified Documents After His Presidency

24. In January 2021, as he was preparing to leave the White House, TRUMP and his White House staff, including NAUTA, packed items, including some of TRUMP's boxes. TRUMP was personally involved in this process. TRUMP caused his boxes, containing hundreds of classified documents, to be transported from the White House to The Mar-a-Lago Club.

25. From January through March 15, 2021, some of TRUMP's boxes were stored in The Mar-a-Lago Club's White and Gold Ballroom, in which events and gatherings took place. TRUMP's boxes were for a time stacked on the ballroom's stage, as depicted in the photograph below (redacted to obscure an individual's identity).



26. In March 2021, NAUTA and others moved some of TRUMP's boxes from the White and Gold Ballroom to the business center at The Mar-a-Lago Club.

27. On April 5, 2021, an employee of The Office of Donald J. Trump ("Trump Employee 1") texted another employee of that office ("Trump Employee 2") to ask whether TRUMP's boxes could be moved out of the business center to make room for staff to use it as an office. Trump Employee 2 replied, "Woah! Ok so potus specifically asked Walt for those boxes to be in the business center because they are his 'papers.'" Later that day, Trump Employee 1 and Trump Employee 2 exchanged the following text messages:

Trump Employee 2:

We can definitely make it work if we move his papers into the lake room?

Trump Employee 1:

There is still a little room in the shower where his other stuff is. Is it only his papers he cares about? Theres some other stuff in there that are not papers. Could that go to storage? Or does he want everything in there on property

Trump Employee 2:

Yes - anything that's not the beautiful mind [movie: A Beautiful Mind, directed by Ron Howard] paper boxes can definitely go to storage. Want to take a look at the space and start moving tomorrow AM?

28. After the text exchange between Trump Employee 1 and Trump Employee 2, in April 2021, some of TRUMP's boxes were moved from the business center to a bathroom and shower in The Mar-a-Lago Club's Lake Room, as depicted in the photograph below.



29. In May 2021, TRUMP directed that a storage room on the ground floor of The Mar-a-Lago Club (the "Storage Room") be cleaned out so that it could be used to store his boxes. The hallway leading to the Storage Room could be reached from multiple outside entrances, including one accessible from The Mar-a-Lago Club pool patio through a doorway that was often kept open. The Storage Room was near the liquor supply closet, linen room, lock shop, and various other rooms.

30. On June 24, 2021, TRUMP's boxes that were in the Lake Room were moved to the Storage Room. After the move, there were more than 80 boxes in the Storage Room, as depicted in the photographs below.





31. On December 7, 2021, NAUTA found several of TRUMP's boxes fallen and their contents spilled onto the floor of the Storage Room, including a document marked "SECRET/REL TO USA, FVEY," which denoted that the information in the document was releasable only to the Five Eyes intelligence alliance consisting of Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, and the United States. NAUTA texted Trump Employee 2, "I opened the door and found this ... " NAUTA also attached two photographs he took of the spill. Trump Employee 2 replied, "Oh no oh no," and "I'm sorry potus had my phone." One of the photographs NAUTA texted to Trump Employee 2 is depicted below with the visible classified information redacted. TRUMP's unlawful retention of this document is charged in Count 8 of this Indictment.



TRUMP's Disclosures of Classified Information in Private Meetings

32. In May 2021, TRUMP caused some of his boxes to be brought to his summer residence at The Bedminster Club. Like The Mar-a-Lago Club, after TRUMP's presidency, The Bedminster Club was not an authorized location for the storage, possession, review, display, or discussion of classified documents.

33. On July 21, 2021, when he was no longer president, TRUMP gave an interview in his office at The Bedminster Club to a writer and a publisher in connection with a then-forthcoming book. Two members of TRUMP's staff also attended the interview, which was recorded with TRUMP's knowledge and consent. Before the interview, the media had published reports that, at the end of TRUMP's term as president, a senior military official (the "Senior Military Official") purportedly feared that TRUMP might order an attack on Country A and that the Senior Military Official advised TRUMP against doing so.

34. Upon greeting the writer, publisher, and his two staff members, TRUMP stated, "Look what I found, this was [the Senior Military Official's] plan of attack, read it and just show ... it's interesting." Later in the interview, TRUMP engaged in the following exchange:

TRUMP: Well, with [the Senior Military Official] -- uh, let me see that, I'll show you an example. He said that I wanted to attack [Country A]. Isn't it amazing? I have a big pile of papers, this thing just came up. Look. This was him. They presented me this -- this is off the record, but -- they presented me this. This was him. This was the Defense Department and him.

WRITER: Wow.

TRUMP: We looked at some. This was him. This wasn't done by me, this was him. All sorts of stuff -- pages long, look.

STAFFER: Mm.

TRUMP: Wait a minute, let's see here.

STAFFER: [Laughter] Yeah.

TRUMP: I just found, isn't that amazing? This totally wins my case, you know.

STAFFER: Mm-hm.

TRUMP: Except it is like, highly confidential.

STAFFER: Yeah. [Laughter]

TRUMP: Secret. This is secret information. Look, look at this. You attack, and --

* * *

TRUMP: By the way. Isn't that incredible?

STAFFER: Yeah.

TRUMP: I was just thinking, because we were talking about it. And you know, he said, "he wanted to attack [Country A], and what ... "

STAFFER: You did.

TRUMP: This was done by the military and given to me. Uh, I think we can probably, right?

STAFFER: I don't know, we'll, we'll have to see. Yeah, we'll have to try to --

TRUMP: Declassify it.

STAFFER: -- figure out a -- yeah.

TRUMP: See as president I could have declassified it.

STAFFER: Yeah. [Laughter]

TRUMP: Now I can't, you know, but this is still a secret.

STAFFER: Yeah. [Laughter] Now we have a problem.

TRUMP: Isn't that interesting?

At the time of this exchange, the writer, the publisher, and TRUMP's two staff members did not have security clearances or any need-to-know any classified information about a plan of attack on Country A.

35. In August or September 2021, when he was no longer president, TRUMP met in his office at The Bedminster Club with a representative of his political action committee (the "PAC Representative"). During the meeting, TRUMP commented that an ongoing military operation in Country B was not going well. TRUMP showed the PAC Representative a classified map of Country B and told the PAC Representative that he should not be showing the map to the PAC Representative and to not get too close. The PAC Representative did not have a security clearance or any need-to-know classified information about the military operation.

36. On February 16, 2017, four years before TRUMP's disclosures of classified information set forth above, TRUMP said at a press conference:

The first thing I thought of when I heard about it is, how does the press get this information that's classified? How do they do it? You know why? Because it's an illegal process, and the press should be ashamed of themselves. But more importantly, the people that gave out the information to the press should be ashamed of themselves. Really ashamed.

TRUMP's Production of 15 Cardboard Boxes to the National Archives and Records Administration

37. Beginning in May 2021, the National Archives and Records Administration ("NARA"), which was responsible for archiving presidential records, repeatedly demanded that TRUMP turn over presidential records that he had kept after his presidency. On multiple occasions, beginning in June, NARA warned TRUMP through his representatives that if he did not comply, it would refer the matter of the missing records to the Department of Justice.

38. Between November 2021 and January 2022, NAUTA and Trump Employee 2 -- at TRUMP's direction -- brought boxes from the Storage Room to TRUMP's residence for TRUMP to review.

39. On November 12,2021, Trump Employee 2 provided TRUMP a photograph of his boxes in the Storage Room by taping it to one of the boxes that Trump Employee 2 had placed in TRUMP's residence. Trump Employee 2 provided TRUMP the photograph so that TRUMP could see how many of his boxes were stored in the Storage Room. The photograph, shown below, depicted a wall of the Storage Room against which dozens of TRUMP's boxes were stacked.



40. On November 17, 2021, NAUTA texted Trump Employee 2 about the photograph Trump Employee 2 had provided to TRUMP, stating, "He mentioned about a picture of the 'boxes' he wants me to see it?" Trump Employee 2 replied, "Calling you shortly."

41. On November 25, 2021, Trump Employee 2 texted NAUTA about TRUMP's review of the contents of his boxes, asking, "Has he mentioned boxes to you? I delivered some, but I think he may need more. Could you ask if he'd like more in pine hall?" Pine Hall was an entry room in TRUMP's residence. NAUTA replied in three successive text messages:

Nothing about boxes yet
He has one he's working on in pine hall
Knocked out 2 boxes yesterday

42. On November 29, 2021, Trump Employee 2 texted NAUTA, asking, "Next you are on property (no rush) could you help me bring 4 more boxes up?" NAUTA replied, "Yes!! Of course."

43. On December 29, 2021, Trump Employee 2 texted a TRUMP representative who was in contact with NARA ("Trump Representative 1"), "box answer will be wrenched out of him today, promise!" The next day, Trump Representative 1 replied in two successive text messages:

Hey - Just checking on Boxes ...
would love to have a number to them today

Trump Employee 2 spoke to TRUMP and then responded a few hours later in two successive text messages:

12
Is his number

44. On January 13, 2022, NAUTA texted Trump Employee 2 about TRUMP's "tracking" of boxes, stating, "He's tracking the boxes, more to follow today on whether he wants to go through more today or tomorrow." Trump Employee 2 replied, "Thank you!"

45. On January 15, 2022, NAUTA sent Trump Employee 2 four successive text messages:

One thing he asked
Was for new covers for the boxes, for Monday m.
Morning
*can we get new box covers before giving these to them on Monday? They have too much writing on them..I marked too much

Trump Employee 2 replied, "Yes, I will get that!"

46. On January 17, 2022, Trump Employee 2 and NAUTA gathered 15 boxes from TRUMP's residence, loaded the boxes in NAUTA's car, and took them to a commercial truck for delivery to NARA.

47. When interviewed by the FBI in May 2022 regarding the location and movement of boxes before the production to NARA, NAUTA made false and misleading statements as set forth in Count 38 of this Indictment, including:

a. falsely stating that he was not aware of TRUMP's boxes being brought to TRUMP's residence for his review before TRUMP provided 15 boxes to NARA in January 2022;

b. falsely stating that he did not know how the boxes that he and Trump Employee 2 brought from TRUMP's residence to the commercial truck for delivery to NARA on January 17, 2022, had gotten to the residence; and

c. when asked whether he knew where TRUMP's boxes had been stored before they were in TRUMP's residence and whether they had been in a secure or locked location, NAUTA falsely responded, "I wish, I wish I could tell you. I don't know. I don't -- I honestly just don't know."

48. When the 15 boxes that TRUMP had provided reached NARA in January 2022, NARA reviewed the contents and determined that 14 of the boxes contained documents with classification markings. Specifically, as the FBI later determined, the boxes contained 197 documents with classification markings, of which 98 were marked "SECRET," 30 were marked "TOP SECRET," and the remainder were marked "CONFIDENTIAL." Some of those documents also contained SCI and SAP markings.

49. On February 9, 2022, NARA referred the discovery of classified documents in TRUMP's boxes to the Department of Justice for investigation.

The FBI and Grand Jury Investigations

50. On March 30, 2022, the FBI opened a criminal investigation.

51. On April 26, 2022, a federal grand jury opened an investigation.

The Defendants' Concealment of Boxes

52. On May 11, 2022, the grand jury issued a subpoena (the "May 11 Subpoena") to The Office of Donald J. Trump requiring the production of all documents with classification markings in the possession, custody, or control of TRUMP or The Office of Donald J. Trump. Two attorneys representing TRUMP ("Trump Attorney 1" [Matthew Evan Corcoran?] and "Trump Attorney 2" [Lindsey R. Halligan?]) informed TRUMP of the May 11 Subpoena, and he authorized Trump Attorney 1 to accept service.

53. On May 22, 2022, NAUTA entered the Storage Room at 3:47 p.m. and left approximately 34 minutes later, carrying one of TRUMP's boxes.

54. On May 23, 2022, TRUMP met with Trump Attorney 1 and Trump Attorney 2 at The Mar-a-Lago Club to discuss the response to the May 11 Subpoena. Trump Attorney 1 and Trump Attorney 2 told TRUMP that they needed to search for documents that would be responsive to the subpoena and provide a certification that there had been compliance with the subpoena. TRUMP, in sum and substance, made the following statements, among others, as memorialized by Trump Attorney 1:

a. I don't want anybody looking, I don't want anybody looking through my boxes, I really don't, I don't want you looking through my boxes.

b. Well what if we, what happens if we just don't respond at all or don't play ball with them?

c. Wouldn't it be better if we just told them we don't have anything here?

d. Well look isn't it better if there are no documents?

55. While meeting with Trump Attorney 1 and Trump Attorney 2 on May 23, TRUMP, in sum and substance, told the following story, as memorialized by Trump Attorney 1:

[Attorney], he was great, he did a great job. You know what? He said, he said that it -- that it was him. That he was the one who deleted all of her emails, the 30,000 emails, because they basically dealt with her scheduling and her going to the gym and her having beauty appointments. And he was great. And he, so she didn't get in any trouble because he said that he was the one who deleted them.

TRUMP related the story more than once that day.

56. On May 23, TRUMP also confirmed his understanding with Trump Attorney 1 that Trump Attorney 1 would return to The Mar-a-Lago Club on June 2 to search for any documents with classification markings to produce in response to the May 11 Subpoena. Trump Attorney 1 made it clear to TRUMP that Trump Attorney 1 would conduct the search for responsive documents by looking through TRUMP's boxes that had been transported from the White House and remained in storage at The Mar-a-Lago Club. TRUMP indicated that he wanted to be at The Mar-a-Lago Club when Trump Attorney 1 returned to review his boxes on June 2, and that TRUMP would change his summer travel plans to do so. TRUMP told Trump Attorney 2 that Trump Attorney 2 did not need to be present for the review of boxes.

57. After meeting with Trump Attorney 1 and Trump Attorney 2 on May 23, TRUMP delayed his departure from The Mar-a-Lago Club to The Bedminster Club for the summer so that he would be present at The Mar-a-Lago Club on June 2, when Trump Attorney 1 returned to review the boxes.

58. Between TRUMP's May 23 meeting with Trump Attorney 1 and Trump Attorney 2 to discuss the May 11 Subpoena, and June 2, when Trump Attorney 1 returned to The Mar-a-Lago Club to review the boxes in the Storage Room, NAUTA removed -- at TRUMP's direction -- a total of approximately 64 boxes from the Storage Room and brought them to TRUMP's residence, as set forth below:

a. On May 24, 2022, between 5:30 p.m. and 5:38 p.m., NAUTA removed three boxes from the Storage Room.

b. On May 30, 2022, at 9:08 a.m., TRUMP and NAUTA spoke by phone for approximately 30 seconds. Between 10:02 a.m. and 11:51 a.m., NAUTA removed a total of approximately 50 boxes from the Storage Room.

c. On May 30, 2022, at 12:33 p.m., a Trump family member [Melania Trump?] texted NAUTA:

Good afternoon Walt,
Happy Memorial Day!

I saw you put boxes to Potus room. Just FYI and I
will tell him as well:
Not sure how many he wants to take on Friday on the
plane. We will NOT have a room for them. Plane will
be full with luggage.
Thank you!

NAUTA replied:

Good Afternoon Ma'am [Smiley Face Emoji]
Thank you so much.

I think he wanted to pick from them. I don't imagine
him wanting to take the boxes.

He told me to put them in the room and that he was
going to talk to you about them.

d. On June 1, 2022, beginning at 12:52 p.m., NAUTA removed approximately 11 boxes from the Storage Room.

59. On June 1, 2022, TRUMP spoke with Trump Attorney 1 by phone and asked whether Trump Attorney 1 was coming to The Mar-a-Lago Club the next day and for exactly what purpose. Trump Attorney 1 reminded TRUMP that Trump Attorney 1 was going to review the boxes that had been transported from the White House and remained in storage at The Mar-a-Lago Club so that Trump Attorney 1 could have a custodian of records certify that the May 11 subpoena had been complied with fully.

60. On June 2, 2022, the day that Trump Attorney 1 was scheduled to review TRUMP's boxes in the Storage Room, TRUMP spoke with NAUTA on the phone at 9:29 a.m. for approximately 24 seconds.

61. Later that day, between 12:33 p.m. and 12:52 p.m., NAUTA and an employee of The Mar-a-Lago Club moved approximately 30 boxes from TRUMP's residence to the Storage Room.

62. In sum, between May 23, 2022, and June 2, 2022, before Trump Attorney 1's review of TRUMP's boxes in the Storage Room, NAUTA -- at TRUMP's direction -- moved approximately 64 boxes from the Storage Room to TRUMP's residence and brought to the Storage Room only approximately 30 boxes. Neither TRUMP nor NAUTA informed Trump Attorney 1 of this information.

[admin]

Part 2 of 2

The False Certification to the FBI and the Grand Jury

63. On the afternoon of June 2, 2022, as TRUMP had been informed, Trump Attorney 1 arrived at The Mar-a-Lago Club to review TRUMP's boxes to look for documents with classification markings in response to the May 11 Subpoena. TRUMP met with Trump Attorney 1 before Trump Attorney 1 conducted the review. NAUTA escorted Trump Attorney 1 to the Storage Room.

64. Between 3:53 p.m. and 6:23 p.m., Trump Attorney 1 reviewed the contents of TRUMP's boxes in the Storage Room. Trump Attorney 1 located 38 documents with classification markings inside the boxes, which Trump Attorney 1 removed and placed in a Redweld folder. Trump Attorney 1 contacted NAUTA and asked him to bring clear duct tape to the Storage Room, which NAUTA did. Trump Attorney 1 used the clear duct tape to seal the Redweld folder with the documents with classification markings inside.

65. After Trump Attorney 1 finished sealing the Redweld folder containing the documents with classification markings that he had found inside TRUMP's boxes, NAUTA took Trump Attorney 1 to a dining room in The Mar-a-Lago Club to meet with TRUMP. After Trump Attorney 1 confirmed that he was finished with his search of the Storage Room, TRUMP asked, "Did you find anything? ... Is it bad? Good?"

66. TRUMP and Trump Attorney 1 then discussed what to do with the Redweld folder containing documents with classification markings and whether Trump Attorney 1 should bring them to his hotel room and put them in a safe there. During that conversation, TRUMP made a plucking motion, as memorialized by Trump Attorney 1:

He made a funny motion as though -- well okay why don't you take them with you to your hotel room and if there's anything really bad in there, like, you know, pluck it out. And that was the motion that he made. He didn't say that.

67. That evening, Trump Attorney 1 contacted the Department of Justice and requested that an FBI agent meet him at The Mar-a-Lago Club the next day, June 3, so that he could turn over the documents responsive to the May 11 Subpoena.

68. Also that evening, Trump Attorney 1 contacted another TRUMP attorney ("Trump Attorney 3" [Christina Bobb?]) and asked her if she would come to The Mar-a-Lago Club the next morning to act as a custodian of records and sign a certification regarding the search for documents with classification markings in response to the May 11 Subpoena. Trump Attorney 3, who had no role in the review of TRUMP's boxes in the Storage Room, agreed.

69. The next day, on June 3, 2022, at Trump Attorney 1's request, Trump Attorney 3 signed a certification as the custodian of records for The Office of Donald J. Trump and took it to The Mar-a-Lago Club to provide it to the Department of Justice and FBI. In the certification, Trump Attorney 3 -- who performed no search of TRUMP's boxes; had not reviewed the May 11 Subpoena, and had not reviewed the contents of the Redweld folder -- stated, among other things, that "[ b]ased upon the information that [had] been provided to" her:

a. "A diligent search was conducted of the boxes that were moved from the White House to Florida";

b. "This search was conducted after receipt of the subpoena, in order to locate any and all documents that are responsive to the subpoena"; and

c. "Any and all responsive documents accompany this certification."

70. These statements were false because, among other reasons, TRUMP had directed NAUTA to move boxes before Trump Attorney 1's June 2 review, so that many boxes were not searched and many documents responsive to the May 11 Subpoena could not be found -- and in fact were not found -- by Trump Attorney 1.

71. Shortly after Trump Attorney 3 executed the false certification, on June 3, 2022, Trump Attorney 1 and Trump Attorney 3 met at The Mar-a-Lago Club with personnel from the Department of Justice and FBI. Trump Attorney 1 and Trump Attorney 3 turned over the Redweld folder containing documents with classification markings, as well as the false certification signed by Trump Attorney 3 as custodian of records. TRUMP, who had delayed his departure from The Mar-a-Lago Club, joined Trump Attorney 1 and Trump Attorney 3 for some of the meeting. TRUMP claimed to the Department of Justice and FBI that he was "an open book."

72. Earlier that same day, NAUTA and others loaded several of TRUMP's boxes along with other items on aircraft that flew TRUMP and his family north for the summer.

The Court-Authorized Search of The Mar-a-Lago Club

73. In July 2022, the FBI and grand jury obtained and reviewed surveillance video from The Mar-a-Lago Club showing the movement of boxes set forth above.

74. On August 8, 2022, the FBI executed a court-authorized search warrant at The Mar-a-Lago Club. The search warrant authorized the FBI to search for and seize, among other things, all documents with classification markings.

75. During the execution of the warrant at The Mar-a-Lago Club, the FBI seized 102 documents with classification markings in TRUMP's office and the Storage Room, as follows:

Location / Number of Documents / Classification Markings

TRUMP's Office / 27 / Top Secret (6); Secret (18); Confidential (3)
Storage Room / 75 / Top Secret (11); Secret (36); Confidential (28)

COUNTS 1-31

Willful Retention of National Defense Information
(18 U.S.C. §793(e))

76. The General Allegations of this Indictment are re-alleged and fully incorporated here by reference.

77. On or about the dates set forth in the table below, in Palm Beach County, in the Southern District of Florida, and elsewhere, the defendant,

DONALD J. TRUMP,

having unauthorized possession of, access to, and control over documents relating to the national defense, did willfully retain the documents and fail to deliver them to the officer and employee of the United States entitled to receive them; that is -- TRUMP, without authorization, retained at The Mar-a-Lago Club documents relating to the national defense, including the following:

Count / Date of Offense / Classification Marking / Document Description

1 / January 20, 2021 - August 8, 2022 / TOP SECRET//NOFORN//SPECIAL HANDLING / Document dated May 3, 2018, concerning White House intelligence briefing related to various foreign countries

2 / January 20, 2021 - August 8, 2022 / TOP SECRET//SI//NOFORN//SPECIAL HANDLING / Document dated May 9, 2018, concerning White House intelligence briefing related to various foreign countries

3 / January 20, 2021 - August 8, 2022 / TOP SECRET//SI//NOFORN//FISA / Undated document concerning military capabilities of a foreign country and the United States, with handwritten annotation in black marker

4 / January 20, 2021 - August 8, 2022 / TOP SECRET//SPECIAL HANDLING / Document dated May 6, 2019, concerning White House intelligence briefing related to foreign countries, including military activities and planning of foreign countries

5 / January 20, 2021 - August 8, 2022 / TOP SECRET//[redacted]/[redacted]//ORCON/NOFORN / Document dated June 2020 concerning nuclear capabilities of a foreign country

6 / January 20, 2021 - August 8, 2022 / TOP SECRET//SPECIAL HANDLING / Document dated June 4, 2020, concerning White House

7 / January 20, 2021 - August 8, 2022 / SECRET//NOFORN / Document dated October 21, 2018, concerning communications with a leader of a foreign country

8 / January 20, 2021 - August 8, 2022 / SECRET//REL TO USA, FVEY / Document dated October 4, 2019, concerning military capabilities of a foreign country

9 / January 20, 2021 - August 8, 2022 / TOP SECRET//[redacted]/[redacted]//ORCON/NOFORN/FISA / Undated document concerning military attacks by a foreign country

10 / January 20, 2021 - August 8, 2022 / TOP SECRET//TK//NOFORN / Document dated November 2017 concerning military capabilities of a foreign country

11 / January 20, 2021 - August 8, 2022 / No marking / Undated document concerning military contingency planning of the United States

12 / January 20, 2021 - August 8, 2022 / SECRET//REL TO USA, FVEY / Pages of undated document concerning projected regional military capabilities of a foreign country and the United States

13 / January 20, 2021 - August 8, 2022 / TOP SECRET//SI/TK//NOFORN / Undated document concerning military capabilities of a foreign country and the United States

14 / January 20, 2021 - August 8, 2022 / SECRET//ORCON/NOFORN / Document dated January 2020 concerning military options of a foreign country and potential effects on United States interests

15 / January 20, 2021 - August 8, 2022 / SECRET//ORCON/NOFORN / Document dated February 2020 concerning policies in a foreign country

16 / January 20, 2021 - August 8, 2022 / SECRET//ORCON/NOFORN / Document dated December 2019 concerning foreign country support of terrorist acts against United States interests

17 / January 20, 2021 - August 8, 2022 / TOP SECRET//[redacted]/TK//ORCON/IMCON/NOFORN / Document dated January 2020 concerning military capabilities of a foreign country

18 / January 20, 2021 - August 8, 2022 / SECRET//NOFORN / Document dated March 2020 concerning military operations against United States forces and others

19 / January 20, 2021 - August 8, 2022 / SECRET//FORMERLY RESTRICTED DATA / Undated document concerning nuclear weaponry of the United States

20 / January 20, 2021 - August 8, 2022 / TOP SECRET//[redacted]//ORCON/NOFORN / Undated document concerning timeline and details of attack in a foreign country

21 / January 20, 2021 - August 8, 2022 / SECRET//NOFORN / Undated document concerning military capabilities of foreign countries

22 / January 20, 2021 - June 3, 2022 / TOP SECRET//[redacted]//RSEN/ORCON/NOFORN / Document dated August 2019 concerning regional military activity of a foreign country

23 / January 20, 2021 - June 3, 2022 / TOP SECRET//SPECIAL HANDLING / Document dated August 30, 2019, concerning White House intelligence briefing related to various foreign countries, with handwritten annotation in black marker

24 / January 20, 2021 - June 3, 2022 / TOP SECRET//HCWS-P/SI//ORCON-USGOV/NOFORN / Undated document concerning military activity of a foreign country

25 / January 20, 2021 - June 3, 2022 / TOP SECRET//HCS-P/SI//ORCON-USGOV/NOFORN / Document dated October 24, 2019, concerning military activity of foreign countries and the United States

26 / January 20, 2021 - June 3, 2022 / TOP SECRET//[redacted]//ORCON/NOFORN/FISA / Document dated November 7, 2019, concerning military activity of foreign countries and the United States

27 / January 20, 2021 - June 3, 2022 / TOP SECRET//SI/TK//NOFORN / Document dated November 2019 concerning military activity of foreign countries

28 / January 20, 2021 - June 3, 2022 / TOP SECRET//SPECIAL HANDLING / Document dated October 18, 2019, concerning White House intelligence briefing related to various foreign countries

29 / January 20, 2021 - June 3, 2022 / TOP SECRET//[redacted]/SI/TK//ORCON/NOFORN / Document dated October 18, 2019, concerning military capabilities of a foreign country

30 / January 20, 2021 - June 3, 2022 / TOP SECRET//[redacted]//ORCON/NOFORN/FISA / Document dated October 15, 2019, concerning military activity in a foreign country

31 / January 20, 2021 - June 3, 2022 / TOP SECRET//SI/TK//NOFORN / Document dated February 2017 concerning military activity of a foreign country

All in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Section 793(e).

COUNT 32
Conspiracy to Obstruct Justice (18 U.S.C. § 1512(k))

78. The General Allegations of this Indictment are re-alleged and fully incorporated here by reference.

The Conspiracy and its Objects

79. From on or about May 11, 2022, through in or around August 2022, in Palm Beach County, in the Southern District of Florida, and elsewhere, the defendants,

DONALD J. TRUMP and
WALTINE NAUTA,

did knowingly combine, conspire, confederate, and agree with each other and with others known and unknown to the grand jury, to engage in misleading conduct toward another person and corruptly persuade another person to withhold a record, document, and other object from an official proceeding, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1512(b)(2)(A), and to corruptly conceal a record, document, and other object from an official proceeding, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1512( c)(1).

The Purpose of the Conspiracy

80. The purpose of the conspiracy was for TRUMP to keep classified documents he had taken with him from the White House and to hide and conceal them from a federal grand jury.

The Manner and Means of the Conspiracy

81. The manner and means by which the defendants sought to accomplish the objects and purpose of the conspiracy included, among other things, the following:

a. Suggesting that Trump Attorney 1 falsely represent to the FBI and grand jury that TRUMP did not have documents called for by the May 11 Subpoena;

b. moving boxes of documents to conceal them from Trump Attorney 1, the FBI, and the grand jury;

c. suggesting that Trump Attorney 1 hide or destroy documents called for by the May 11 Subpoena;

d. providing to the FBI and grand jury just some of the documents called for by the May 11 Subpoena, while TRUMP claimed he was cooperating fully;

e. causing a false certification to be submitted to the FBI and grand jury representing that all documents with classification markings had been produced, when in fact they had not; and

f. making false and misleading statements to the FBI.

All in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Section 1512(k).

COUNT 33
Withholding a Document or Record
(18 U.S.C. §§ 1512(b)(2)(A), 2)

82. The General Allegations of this Indictment are re-alleged and fully incorporated here by reference.

83. From on or about May 11, 2022, through in or around August 2022, in Palm Beach County, in the Southern District of Florida, and elsewhere, the defendants,

DONALD J. TRUMP and
WALTINE NAUTA,

did knowingly engage in misleading conduct toward another person, and knowingly corruptly persuade and attempt to persuade another person, with intent to cause and induce any person to withhold a record, document, and other object from an official proceeding; that is -- (1) TRUMP attempted to persuade Trump Attorney 1 to hide and conceal documents from a federal grand jury; and (2) TRUMP and NAUTA misled Trump Attorney 1 by moving boxes that contained documents with classification markings so that Trump Attorney 1 would not find the documents and produce them to a federal grand jury.

All in violation of Title 18, United states Code, Sections 1512(b)(2)(A) and 2.

COUNT 34
Corruptly Concealing a Document or Record
(18 U.S.C. §§ 1512(c)(1), 2)

84. The General Allegations of this Indictment are re-alleged and fully incorporated here by reference.

85. From on or about May 11, 2022, through in or around August 2022, in Palm Beach County, in the Southern District of Florida, and elsewhere, the defendants,

DONALD J. TRUMP and
WALTINE NAUTA,

did corruptly conceal a record, document, and other object, and attempted to do so, with the intent to impair the object's integrity and availability for use in an official proceeding; that is -- TRUMP and NAUTA hid and concealed boxes that contained documents with classification markings from Trump Attorney 1 so that Trump Attorney 1 would not find the documents and produce them to a federal grand jury.

All in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Sections 1512(c)(1) and 2.

COUNT 35
Concealing a Document in a Federal Investigation
(18 U.S.C. §§ 1519, 2)

86. The General Allegations of this Indictment are re-alleged and fully incorporated here by reference.

87. From on or about May 11, 2022, through in or around August 2022, in Palm Beach County, in the Southern District of Florida, and. elsewhere, the defendants,

DONALD J. TRUMP and
WALTINE NAUTA,

did knowingly conceal, cover up, falsify, and make a false entry in any record, document, and tangible object with the intent to impede, obstruct, and influence the investigation and proper administration of any matter within the jurisdiction of a department and agency of the United States, and in relation to and contemplation of any such matter; that is -- during a federal criminal investigation being conducted by the FBI, (1) TRUMP and NAUTA hid, concealed, and covered up from the FBI TRUMP's continued possession of documents with classification markings at The Mar-a-Lago Club; and (2) TRUMP caused a false certification to be submitted to the FBI.

All in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Sections 1519 and 2.

COUNT 36
Scheme to Conceal
(18 U.S.C.§§ 1001(a)(1), 2)

88. The General Allegations of this Indictment are re-alleged and fully incorporated here by reference.

89. From on or about May 11, 2022, through in or around August 2022, in Palm Beach County, in the Southern District of Florida, and elsewhere, the defendants,

DONALD J. TRUMP and
WALTINE NAUTA,

in a matter within the jurisdiction of the judicial branch and executive branch of the United States government, did knowingly and willfully falsify, conceal, and cover up by any trick, scheme, and device a material fact; that is -- during a federal grand jury investigation and a federal criminal investigation being conducted by the FBI, TRUMP and NAUTA hid and concealed from the grand jury and the FBI TRUMP's continued possession of documents with classification markings.

All in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Sections 1001(a)(1) and 2.

COUNT 37
False Statements and Representations
(18 U.S.C. §§ 1001(a)(2), 2)

90. The General Allegations of this Indictment are re-alleged and fully incorporated here by reference.

91. On or about June 3, 2022, in Palm Beach County, in the Southern District of Florida, and elsewhere, the defendant,

DONALD J. TRUMP,

in a matter within the jurisdiction of the judicial branch and executive branch of the United States government, did knowingly and willfully make and cause to be made a materially false, fictitious, and fraudulent statement and representation; that is -- during a federal grand jury investigation and a federal criminal investigation being conducted by the FBI, TRUMP caused the following false statements and representations to be made to the grand jury and the FBI in a sworn certification executed by Trump Attorney 3:

a. "A diligent search was conducted of the boxes that were moved from the White House to Florida";

b. "This search was conducted after receipt of the subpoena, in order to locate any and all documents that are responsive to the subpoena"; and

c. "Any and all responsive documents accompany this certification."

92. The statements and representations set forth above were false, as TRUMP knew, because TRUMP had directed that boxes be removed from the Storage Room before Trump Attorney 1 conducted the June 2, 2022 search for documents with classification markings, so that Trump Attorney 1's search would not and did not include all of TRUMP's boxes that were removed from the White House; Trump Attorney 1's search would not and did not locate all documents responsive to the May 11 Subpoena; and all responsive documents were not provided to the FBI and the grand jury with the certification. In fact, after June 3, 2022, more than 100 documents with classification markings remained at The Mar-a-Lago Club until the FBI search on August 8, 2022.

All in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Sections 1001(a)(2) and 2.

COUNT 38
False Statements and Representations
(18 U.S.C.§ 1001(a)(2))

93. The General Allegations of this Indictment are re-alleged and fully incorporated here by reference.

94. On May 26, 2022, NAUTA participated in a voluntary interview with the FBI. During the interview, the FBI explained to NAUTA that the FBI was investigating how classified documents had been kept at The Mar-a-Lago Club, and the FBI asked NAUTA questions about the location and movement of TRUMP's boxes before TRUMP provided 15 boxes to NARA on January 17, 2022. NAUTA was represented by counsel, and the FBI advised NAUTA that the interview was voluntary and that he could leave at any time. The FBI also advised NAUTA that it was a criminal offense to lie to the FBI. The interview was recorded.

95. On or about May 26, 2022, in Palm Beach County, in the Southern District of Florida, and elsewhere, the defendant,

WALTINE NAUTA,

in a matter within the jurisdiction of the executive branch of the United States government, did knowingly and willfully make a materially false, fictitious, and fraudulent statement and representation; that is -- in a voluntary interview during a federal criminal investigation being conducted by the FBI, NAUTA was asked the following questions and gave the following false answers:

Question: Does any -- are you aware of any boxes being brought to his home -- his suite?

Answer: No.

* * *

Question: All right. So, so to the best of your knowledge, you're saying that those boxes that you brought onto the truck, first time you ever laid eyes on them was just the day of when [Trump Employee 2] needed you to --

Answer: Correct.

Question: -- to take them. Okay.

* * *

Question: In knowing that we're trying to track the life of these boxes and where they could have been kept and stored and all that kind of stuff --

Answer: Mm-hm.

Question: -- do you have any information that could -- that would -- that could help us understand, like, where they were kept, how they were kept, were they secured, were they locked? Something that makes the intelligence community feel better about these things, you know?

Answer: I wish, I wish I could tell you. I don't know. I don't -- I honestly just don't know.

* * *

Question: And what -- so, so you only saw the 15 boxes, 15, 17 boxes --

Answer: Mm-hm.

Question: -- the day of the move? Even -- they just showed up that day?

Answer: They were in Pine Hall. [Trump Employee 2], just asked me, hey, can we move some boxes?

Question: Okay.

Answer: And I was like, okay.

Question: So, you didn't know -- had no idea how they got there before?

Answer: No.

96. The underscored statements and representations above were false, as NAUTA knew, because (1) NAUTA did in fact know that the boxes in Pine Hall had come from the Storage Room, as NAUTA himself, with the assistance of Trump Employee 2, had moved the boxes from the Storage Room to Pine Hall; and (2) NAUTA had observed the boxes in and moved them to various locations at The Mar-a-Lago Club.

All in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Section 1001(a)(2),

A TRUE BILL

____________ (Signed)
FOREPERSON

____________ (Signed)
JACK SMITH
SPECIAL COUNSEL
UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

[admin]

Part 1 of 2

Trump INDICTMENT and WHAT’S NEXT
Legal AF MeidasTouch
Streamed live 22 hours ago Legal AF Podcast - Full Episodes
6/10/23

The top-rated legal and political podcast Legal AF is back for another hard-hitting look at the most consequential developments at the intersection of law and politics. On this special edition, all three Legal AF anchors, Ben Meiselas, Michael Popok and Karen Friedman Agnifilo, join together to discuss the historic 37 count criminal federal indictment of Donald Trump for violations of the Espionage Act and for conspiracy to obstruct justice, among other things and what happens next including the arraignment next week, and so much more.



Transcript

0:00
foreign [Music] has been criminally indicted for his
0:06
willful retention of National Defense information false statements conspiracy
0:14
and obstruction of justice in federal court in the southern district of
0:20
Florida by a grand jury there in a powerful detailed speaking indictment
0:27
with 38 criminal counts special counsel Jack Smith lays out the case against
0:35
criminal defendant Donald Trump and his criminal code defendant and personal
0:41
aide Walt nauta the criminal indictment contains photographs of boxes with
0:48
highly classified information in bathrooms on the floor in auditoriums
0:55
all totally unsecured the indictment contains text messages from from Trump's
1:01
employees like Walton out to end others showing Donald Trump was directly
1:07
involved at every step in trying to deceive the FBI and the Department of
1:13
Justice by trying to keep these classified records the indictment also
1:19
includes underwrote testimony from Witnesses against Donald Trump and It
1:24
quotes audio recordings of Donald Trump showing classified documents to people
1:30
and bragging about it Donald Trump will be criminally arraigned in a Miami
1:35
Federal Courthouse this Tuesday and already Donald Trump and groups like The
1:42
Proud boys and other right-wing extremists are trying to incite violence
1:47
in front of the courthouse meanwhile Donald Trump's lawyers Jim trustee and
1:53
John Rowley who led his legal defense in connection with special counsel Jack
1:58
Smith's criminal investigation into Trump's theft of these government records have officially left the legal
2:06
team but get this the case against Donald Trump has been randomly assigned to
2:13
disgraced federal judge Eileen cannon from the southern district of Florida a
2:18
2020 Trump appointee who we all know because she was previously reprimanded
2:24
by the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals not once but twice for improperly asserting
2:31
jurisdiction for Donald Trump over the department of Justice's search warrant executed at Mar-A-Lago last year we will
2:39
break down all aspects of this criminal indictment and what happens next also
2:45
let's not forget that special counsel Jack Smith has another criminal investigation still taking place of
2:52
Donald Trump relating to the January 6th Insurrection and Donald Trump's attempt
2:58
to overthrow our government and destroy our democracy and Jack Smith is moving
3:03
closer to another criminal indictment in that matter on Friday the federal judge
3:10
presiding over that grand jury in Washington D.C partially unsealed his
3:15
order from March when he compelled former vice president Mike Pence to
3:21
testify before the grand jurian when you read this order it also shows how very
3:28
very damaging the evidence is against Donald Trump in that matter a historic
3:34
episode of legal AF and no other way to do this when with both co-hosts Michael
3:40
popock and Karen Friedman agnifolo how you doing both popock how are you doing
3:45
I'm doing I'm doing great Proud to be an attorney an American
3:51
a patriot at a part of the justice system in my own way and here with you
3:56
and Karen um to unpack it all we've done it in hot ticks kind of on the fly but this is our
4:02
first opportunity together to analyze what's happened talk about things that are agitating our listeners
4:09
and followers hopefully give them some remedy some bomb for that and then talk about what's going to happen next with
4:15
Tuesday's arraignment hi Karen Karen how are you I'm good thanks for letting me join
4:21
I'm excited about it always not only is it an honor when you join but it is it
4:28
adds extra Delight to these uh weekend legal AFS when the gang is all here together but let's dive right into it
4:36
first let's talk about what this indictment is when we learned about it
4:42
what the various accounts are 38 counts what the charges are let's just break
4:50
down Michael popock what is actually in this indictment I laid out in very broad
4:55
terms what's in there but let me pass it to you great I'll do that then and um
5:01
secondly I do want to address the elephant in the room no pun intended with the GOP Eileen Cannon being
5:08
assigned I have a different theory about what may happen on Tuesday and I will share it and analyze it here but I'll
5:14
tease that but let's get back to what you asked me um I'm going to give two two keys key e
5:19
k e y that people can use when they read disintitement we of course have posted it all over and we'll talk about it at
5:25
length today there are 37 counts against Donald Trump
5:30
and and including some with that he shares with Walt nauta his valet Butler
5:36
body man it depends on what era you grew up uh that was his role from uh from the
5:42
White House all the way forward forward to Mar-A-Lago and uh one count alone against Walt NADA for false statement
5:49
that gives us a total of 38. the easiest way to group it is of course the way the
5:54
government has grouped it 31 of those counts are for individual violations of
6:01
the Espionage Act document by document by document that's why there's 31 of
6:06
them so there's a list here that we're showing on the screen from the chart within the complaint that shows the 31
6:13
times at least based on current knowledge to the Department of Justice and the grand jury of times when the
6:20
Espionage Act Donald Trump using secreting not returning
6:27
transmitting National Defense information ndi which includes as a
6:34
subset classified and top secret and the highest levels of National Security
6:39
documents that this country owns and possesses including nuclear
6:44
the the fighting capacity of our adversaries and of our allies things
6:50
that if any of those pieces of paper found their way out of the bathroom Ballroom storage room or any other
6:57
semi-public area of Mar-A-Lago or Bedminster or the airplane or the SUV
7:03
all or all the people's hands who touched it who aren't qualified or to
7:08
have classified uh top secret information this country would be imperiled that is
7:14
the gravaman the foundation of this complaint and think about how many people there's 150 people or more that
7:21
work at Mar-A-Lago there's another dozens and dozens that work at Bedminster we know what we know we know
7:28
what was returned forcibly by execution of search warrant and subpoena and a little bit that was
7:35
dribbled back by Donald Trump to the National Archive back at the very beginning we don't need we don't even know what's missing we don't know there
7:42
has to be a working hypothesis that there are documents that are no longer within the care custody and control of
7:48
even Donald Trump because of the way he carelessly maintained these documents so
7:54
that's the breakdown of the 38 it goes across eight different Federal statutes but I'll give you the big picture on
8:00
them you've got um conspiracy to obstruct Justice which
8:06
is what we always thought this was going to be an obstruction case we talked about frequently in legal AF and this
8:11
was going to be a uh Espionage Act case we've been talking about that since day one both those counts are there both
8:18
those counts are shared um uh well the conspiracy count is
8:23
shared with Walt nauda he's a co-defendant in that one the um Espionage Act is right now just
8:30
against Donald Trump himself then you've got various counts that sound the same but arise under different
8:37
Federal statutes concealing documents a
8:42
conspiracy to conceal documents a scheme to conceal documents uh and then you
8:48
have the stuff related to false statement both the false so what are the false statements for Donald Trump it is
8:54
his efforts to allow uh because he misled his lawyers on purpose Corcoran
9:02
and we'll talk about Corcoran and Bob who's certified under penalty of perjury on June the second 2022 before the
9:10
execution of the search warrant that they had done a diligent search when Trump knew or should have known
9:16
that at least 30 boxes that he directed be taken out of the storage room
9:22
remained in his personal Residence at Mar-A-Lago therefore could not have been searched by uh Corcoran prior to his
9:29
meeting with the FBI Trump didn't want them searched they remained with Donald
9:34
Trump until after the search was completed that Trump allowing them to sign that knowing that they were meeting
9:41
with the government the next day that they needed to comply with the subpoena um that is him also participating in a
9:48
false statement and then you've got the false statements that Walt NADA has made independently and this is you know we
9:53
all speculated the best we could that Walt NADA was in deep trouble because not only do they have him on video and
10:00
that's reflected in the complaint by timestamp moving boxes in and out of the
10:07
um of the White House sorry of mar-a-lago's various locations and always ending up in the personal
10:13
residence section of Mar-A-Lago in the pine Hall which is some sort of hallway in front of the bedrooms in the offices
10:20
that Donald Trump resides in they are at Mar-A-Lago putting Trump right into the
10:25
jackpot he's reviewing the boxes that he's making Trump is making the personal
10:31
decision based on his own personal review about what does spoon feed back to the National Archive at the very
10:37
beginning of this process when only 15 boxes arrived even those had classified documents inside of them and then Trump
10:44
coach his lawyers Corcoran and Halligan we'll talk about Lindsey Halligan in a
10:50
minute to why don't we say that we isn't it better if we tell the government in
10:56
response to the subpoena that there aren't any documents wouldn't that be better and then using examples that he
11:01
thinks come out of the Hillary Clinton server era to to suggest to them their testimony to tamper with them and to and
11:09
to obstruct Justice wouldn't it be better if some of those documents just and then he made a plucking according to
11:15
Evan corcoran's notes which are referenced to the complaint he made a plucking motion just if they just kind
11:21
of disappeared when they were in your hotel room Mr Corcoran it wouldn't that be good or how about that I.T person for
11:28
Hillary Clinton that made a bunch of emails disappear that he didn't get in trouble he's telling that story because
11:34
he's trying to coach his lawyers into obstructing justice with him and Evan
11:39
Corcoran takes it all down in his notes if you're on trying to unlock the key of the complaint Ben and for our audience
11:46
I'll give you some of the names that are obvious attorney number one for Trump is obviously Corcoran who turned over 50
11:53
pages of notes an audio tape of his musings and testified to the grand jury attorney number two has to be Lindsay
12:00
Halligan because Lindsey Halligan was present during the search warrant and during some of the other uh document
12:07
attempted document collection by uh Corcoran and attorney number three has
12:12
to be Christina Bob because she's the one that signed that certification the other fascinating like bombshell there's
12:19
so many I mean you've done a million hot takes on them and I I could too that's in the complaint is that Christina Bob
12:25
without participating at all in the search of even the documents that Donald
12:30
Trump self-selected for Corcoran to look at she didn't even participate in that
12:36
he called Corcoran called her up told her to come over put a form in front of her and she's signed it having not
12:43
looked at the documents and didn't even know there was a subpoena or what was in The subpoena that was
12:48
gobsmacking to me and the other thing there was gobsmacking to me is based on the time stamp
12:55
um Evan Corcoran spent like 35 minutes looking at what was in the storage unit
13:01
in order to find or not find whatever Donald Trump had had placed there for
13:06
him you know this pla this this theater that was going on this Kabuki theater for Donald Trump he spent 35 minutes
13:13
I've been doing this a long time I've gone into a a room full of boxes that I've had a search for Discovery purposes
13:20
or or or because there was a subpoena outstanding and you can't even order your cup of coffee in 30 how do you
13:26
review that picture of documents that we've just put on the screen piled high to the ceiling and wide to the edge of
13:33
the room in 35 minutes but he did because that's what it said he came in and came out and have the timestamp for
13:38
that so you have you have all of that the other uh person that is you can kind of piece
13:44
together is the is is there's two instances that are referenced that we talked about on legal AF where
13:51
highly compartmented sense sensitive information including What's called the five eyes meaning only five of our
13:58
allies Canada Australia us and two others can look at New Zealand can look
14:04
at this material it's called five eyes material he was showing five eyes material Donald Trump at Bedminster
14:10
because he secreted documents and boxes through Walt now to got them to Bedminster on his plane and then was
14:17
showing them off to people including Taylor budowich who just testified earlier in
14:24
the week in Miami at the Grand Jury that's the guy who's member of the pack
14:29
that got shown at least one of those war maps or or uh or or War planning
14:35
documents that is another violation under the 38 other the you know the 1-31
14:40
counts of Espionage Act that is cited that is is ridiculous and then lastly
14:46
there's even a little I think a little warning not only to the
14:51
people who are like Walton outa around Trump who have not come forward to to
14:57
cooperate with the government they could be next in being indicted but you have a reference it has to be to Melania Trump
15:04
within the document now they could have left it out because it doesn't really it
15:09
doesn't really move the ball ahead in terms of the crimes that are being alleged but there is a reference we put
15:16
up up on the screen there's only one female member of his family that would
15:21
be responsible for moving from house to house and that's Melania it's not the
15:26
daughters it's not anybody else it's Melania and you can tell from the way this this is written and sort of not
15:33
English as a first language type language that she's telling Walt nouda there's no room on the plane to
15:39
Bedminster for all the boxes that Donald Trump wants to take with him to get them
15:44
away from Mar-A-Lago and the prying eyes of the FBI and the Department of Justice
15:49
that's Melania why is it in there because they're sending a shot across the bout of Donald Trump that says
15:55
nobody is safe we've got text messages we've got emails we've got video we've
16:01
got testimony we got it all and if you don't play ball with us and if you think
16:06
we're not serious we're putting your wife in there as well that's my takeaway from where we're at I want to do one
16:13
thing in Eileen Cannon because I have a different View and I just want to give people a little bit of
16:18
I know that this is an agitating issue that she got quote unquote assigned to this I'm not sure that's going to happen
16:26
on Tuesday and I'm not sure she's the permanent judge I'll tell you why first of all here time for the pope quarter
16:32
board first of all the chief judge of Miami is altanaga her Chief magistrate
16:38
is Torres Torres opened the unsealed the
16:43
indictment not Bruce Reinhardt who's listed on the complaint on the on the
16:48
indictment as being the Magistrate Judge you see up top right it says Reinhardt but Reinhardt it sits in West Palm Beach
16:54
and he did not unseal Torres unsealed the clerk stamp on the top right corner
17:01
is the clerk Madam Clerk of the Miami court so yes I understand that there was
17:07
a grand jury that may have been West Palm Beach based that ended up in Miami for coveted reasons but all signs so far
17:13
point to Miami and then finally Canon's magistrate when she sits in Miami because these judges sort of run the
17:20
circuit they run the southern district from Fort Pierce down to Miami is not Torres her magistrate when she's in
17:27
Miami is otatso Reyes and so far that person's not involved so I am not yet on
17:34
board with all the reporting that it's definitely Eileen Cannon because her name is listed at the top we're going to
17:40
see on Tuesday yes there's a random wheel selection in in the southern district
17:46
um so people are like how could it be there's 15 and plus senior judges how could that possibly be I'm not sure it
17:52
is and then the chief judge is permitted under the local administrative orders of
17:57
the southern district to change the trial judge if she so fits if she's if
18:03
she sees fit so Alta Naga can change her out by Tuesday or thereafter and if the
18:08
Department of Justice doesn't like Canon and it really is Canon on Tuesday they file either Canon recuses herself which
18:15
she is required to do if she believes there's an appearance of impropriety or bias based on her prior rulings When
18:22
Donald Trump ran to her courtroom to get uh to stop the Mar-A-Lago investigation in its tracks and their 11th circuits
18:29
slapping her back I think she recuses if she doesn't recuse they can file a motion It ultimately goes up to the 11th
18:36
circuit and the 11th circuit decides which judge presides over this case having said all that I don't think at
18:41
the end of the day Eileen Cannon is going to be the presiding judge for the trial of Donald Trump I have my own
18:47
thoughts that I want to share about Eileen Canon which is similar but
18:52
um slightly different but I think it will still be very reassuring to all of
18:58
our viewers out there that I'm ultimately not worried about that assignment I also want to talk about
19:04
some of my views within the indictment but I really want to get your
19:10
perspective Karen Friedman agnifolo you were the former number two at the Manhattan District Attorney's office as
19:17
a former prosecutor you've prepared indictments at the state level but you
19:23
know the process you've worked with special counsel Jack Smith before from the very outset when special counsel
19:30
Jack Smith was announced as the special counsel from the very very very first
19:36
moment you were here on the Mindless touch Network I remember that day in November very vividly because a lot of
19:43
the public had no clue who this guy was a lot of the large media networks were
19:49
basically trashing this guy and you came on and you said I've worked with special
19:54
counsel Jack Smith he is one of the most diligent prosecutors there is and if he
20:00
is getting on this case then this is very very serious and Karen you were
20:05
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AF that's athleticgreens.com legal AF check it out welcome back we are live here on legal
23:07
AF a historic Edition Donald Trump indicted by a grand jury in the southern
23:14
district of Florida uh in the first segment we heard Michael popock's take
23:19
on the uh criminal indictment and now I want to hear from Karen Friedman agnifolo former prosecutor number two at
23:28
the Manhattan District Attorney's Office you've prepared very very serious indictments you've been in the room
23:34
working with top prosecutors prepared documents just like this in fact you've
23:40
worked before with special counsel Jack Smith before he was a special counsel back when he was a prosecutor in the
23:48
office where you work so Karen Friedman agnifolo your thoughts yeah so
23:54
so indictment I want to just talk about some overall observations so first of
23:59
all this is what's called a speaking indictment or a talking indictment which is different than a Bare Bones indictment which is the other type of
24:06
indictment which the more usual kind of indictment if you recall Alvin Bragg when he brought his case against Donald
24:12
Trump uh that was a Bare Bones indictment that just lists the legal language on or about this date at this
24:19
location the defendant committed the crime of falsifying a business record and they really Bare Bones indictments
24:26
are what they typically look like it's just to inform you of the charges but there is a a tool that prosecutors use
24:32
sometimes which is called a speaking indictment or a talking indictment and that's usually when the charge is either
24:39
conspiracy which there are conspiracy charges in this indictment or if there's a RICO or racketeering charge which is
24:47
the type of indictment that we know funny Willis is considering bringing down in Fulton County Georgia so I would
24:54
expect that there would would be a speaking indictment there and a speaking indictment all it is is a story you're
25:01
telling the story of the crime and of the defendants and of the what's
25:07
happening there and this story that uh that Jack Smith told you can tell it was
25:14
written so that anyone can understand it so that the American public can
25:19
understand it a court can understand it and a defendant can understand it and it's it's what's required in a
25:26
conspiracy uh indictment you have to spell out the conspiracy and the
25:31
agreement and all of that but but Jack Smith did this in a way so that there was a coherent story that anyone could
25:39
understand and that's because this is such a historic indictment you know indicting the former president of the
25:46
United States for for violating the laws he sort of uphold to indict a former
25:53
president and charge him with obstructing the very agencies that he used to lead and to indict the former
25:59
commander-in-chief and charge him with endangering our national security by violating the Espionage Act I mean there
26:07
is no more serious accusation you can make and so this is such a significant
26:13
indictment because of what it is doing that in order to sell this indictment to
26:19
the American people Jack Smith had to write this in a way that really
26:25
Justified it it's more this indictment is more than just these are the charges and what he's charged with this
26:31
indictment is a story and it's a justification for why this indictment is so significant and why Trump's conduct
26:38
was was not at all like The Accidental possession of classified or national
26:45
security information the way um you know Hillary Clinton's server or the way Pence uh found some and Biden
26:53
found some those were accidental uh possessions all of them unintentional
26:58
and so what happened when they found them they discovered them they gave them back and I think that's significant
27:04
because that's another thing Jack Smith puts in his indictment is all the efforts that the Department of Justice
27:10
made to try and get the documents back had Donald Trump just said oh here I
27:16
didn't realize I had them here they are and give them back this indictment would never have occurred this we would never
27:23
have him be charged but this isn't just about possession this is about him
27:28
thinking that he's Above the Law and nothing no laws apply to him and he can
27:35
do whatever he wants you know the one thing that wasn't in the indictment that
27:40
struck me was motive their motive isn't required to prove these cases you know and motive is is
27:47
why why did someone do it and and we know that Jack Smith was looking into whether he had whether Trump had uh
27:54
business dealings in the countries where um where these the the
28:00
um documents pertained to and so that was not in here now that doesn't mean
28:06
that that doesn't exist it just means that Jack Smith wasn't able to uh to
28:12
prove that or to get that information in time for the indictment or maybe it
28:17
didn't happen at all so we don't know what the motive is and and you know I I was reading uh I was reading um an
28:24
interview that someone gave who knows Trump well and said he thought that he
28:31
kept this stuff as a trophy so he can you know he he thinks he won the election and you know he still thinks
28:38
he's president and so he still thinks he can keep these and use them to show people that he can do whatever he wants
28:43
but who knows motive wasn't in there and it doesn't have to be proven but that was the one thing that I noticed that
28:50
was missing that frankly could help with the court of public opinion and persuading people that this is a
28:57
righteous prosecution now Jack Smith when he brought this case
29:03
you know there was a lot of chatter that this was going to be in DC and the reason that's the case was
29:09
there were aspects of this crime that happened in Washington DC right there was he was president in in Washington
29:15
and these documents existed in Washington and they had to be taken from Washington to be brought to the various
29:20
locations whether it's Florida or the or the ones in in Bedminster that that are in the indictment and we know that there
29:27
was a grand jury in uh in Washington not because the justice department or
29:32
anybody leaked it necessarily but because Witnesses were called to testify and and defense attorneys you know a lot
29:39
of the witnesses had defense attorneys or attorneys and so people talk and there were reporters stationed outside
29:44
and would know who went in and and so you could tell that there was activity going on in the Washington grand jury
29:50
and then at some point towards the end and we know we were at the end of the presentation because of the types of
29:57
witnesses who were being called and the types of Cooperators you know they move
30:02
up the chain of command uh in order of of importance and you could tell who where they were based on the types of
30:09
witnesses that they were getting getting to and again we know that largely because attorneys we think leaked this
30:17
information not you know not the attorneys at the justice department but attorneys representing the witnesses who
30:23
went in to testify and so we knew we were at the end and that's what all the
30:28
experts were be could you know you can sort of read the tea leaves and say okay based on what's Happening Now we can
30:34
tell we're sort of near the end and turns out uh people were right because it's it's fairly
30:39
um it's not that complicated to understand when you put all the puzzle pieces together and so and so we knew we
30:46
were at the end and then all of a sudden everything stopped and at that point I
30:51
had surmised at least in my mind I thought well I think that's um that's when uh he's uh Jack Smith is talking to
30:57
Merrick Garland that's when he's presenting his recommendations and his prosecution memo and that was just a
31:02
guess but that's what I was thinking and at towards the end when uh on Wednesday
31:08
when we had legal AF um popoc and I were going back and forth because a lot of people were saying is this going to be
31:14
in DC or is this going to be in Florida don't forget at that point uh there was there was information that
31:20
this case uh was also being presented in Florida and one of the things we discussed and that I posited was I think
31:27
this whole thing is going to be in Florida and not in Washington for the following reasons
31:32
getting a trial if you're Jack Smith getting any trial going before the
31:37
presidential election is is what you want that is the goal you want this case to go to trial because we know Donald
31:44
Trump will never plead guilty that will never ever happen so you want a trial and the only chance you have at going to
31:51
trial because we know Donald Trump's number one trial strategy is what he does everywhere is to try to create
31:57
delay and how do you create delay in a federal criminal trial you make motions
32:03
you make legal arguments and you you make arguments that you think you want
32:09
the judge to rule on and then if the judge doesn't rule your way you know Trump what does he do he appeals it and
32:14
then what does he go from there he appeals it to the Supreme Court of the United States and so what does that do
32:19
all of that takes time because Donald Trump does not want a trial he doesn't want a trial in DC he doesn't want a
32:25
trial in Florida he doesn't want to trial anywhere because a trial will expose all of this evidence in excrucia
32:32
creating detail and it will risk him being a convicted felon the first in our
32:37
nation's history so his goal will be to delay and the number one problem with
32:42
bringing this case in Washington is something in the law called venue an event the venue is is where do you
32:49
bring the case where does it have to happen and the law says the Paul and the policy says it has to be where the
32:57
Essential Elements of the crime substantially happened and here that is Mar-A-Lago and you can see that now in
33:04
the indictment and so in order to take venue off the table as a legal argument
33:09
because that really is his number one legal argument that that I think has the most would have had the most legs or at
33:16
least the most appellate legs I think he would have ultimately lost but he could at least make the argument and so that
33:22
would have delayed the trial and so if I'm Jack Smith and Merrick Garland I think okay if I take this down to
33:28
Florida it takes a venue off the table and at least I have a chance of a trial and there's depending on how many judges
33:35
were in the mix of who could get this some people say 15 other people say
33:41
fewer because but I don't really know how how Florida works so I defer to popoc and he says uh it's likely there
33:47
were 15 judges in the mix if that's the case I'm thinking if I'm the prosecutor
33:52
there's a 1 in 15 chance it's Eileen Cannon we know she was a disaster so I'm going to take my chances because I want
33:58
to have a trial and of course lo and behold where are we we are in front of Eileen Cannon but I think that's why the
34:05
prosecutor Jack Smith here decided to take it down to Florida and you know look are there going to be
34:11
some Logistics with trying a former president of the United States yes I mean one of them is is assuming fawny
34:18
Willis also brings her case in July and August and Jack brings his January 6th case it's going to be so we know they're
34:25
gonna have to coordinate at least three criminal trials maybe four which one goes first is anybody's guess the
34:31
biggest logistical hurdle though I think in this case is the fact that this trial involves evidence of classified
34:39
documents so on the one hand these are our nation's most uh most top secret
34:45
classified documents and and you know Donald Trump Donald Trump had you know had uh over at
34:54
over 300 documents that had classified markings that we know of and over a
34:59
hundred were recovered during this execution of the search warrant he took
35:05
over 12 000 government documents total but so let's say there were over let's
35:11
say there's either 100 or 300 classified documents that were in play that Jack
35:16
Smith could have used in this indictment he chose 31 of them and one question we
35:22
will all have to ask ourselves is how did he choose those 31 counts and because that's a very careful careful
35:29
thing that prosecutors do when you have lots and lots and lots of evidence you know I remember when when we used to
35:36
when we used to charge uh crimes that had you know you'd recover you know thousands of images of child porn for
35:43
example you wouldn't necessarily you know each one could be its own count you wouldn't necessarily charge a thousand
35:50
counts first of all it bogs down the uh the jury it's a giant indictment and so
35:55
what you do is you carefully select a representative number and so uh he would
36:00
have done that here and the 31 counts that he would have chosen he would have carefully selected and the question is
36:06
why did he pick these documents and you know know one question I have to ask myself is perhaps he chose ones that
36:14
wouldn't endanger our national security If he if these come out in public right
36:22
um for example did he did he work with intelligence professionals and only use
36:27
those that could be used in open court and shown to the jury but that cuts both
36:33
ways because Trump will say see they're not National Security documents the jury sees them you see them the whole world
36:39
sees them right so kind of by their very nature you can't necessarily use the
36:46
most secret ones because they can't possibly be shown to everybody because
36:52
they would endanger our national security and so there or perhaps there's
36:57
another there's another question maybe dot maybe Jack Smith worked with the intelligence Professor professionals to
37:04
say okay if you can get Donald Trump to agree not to show these to the public in the jury you can use them until that
37:11
point but there is something called the classified information procedures act and
37:17
um and and the judge will have to utilize the procedures there they'll have a hearing they call it cepa they'll
37:23
have a sipa hearing to determine uh how and in what capacity these documents can
37:28
be used while still ensuring that Donald Trump receives a fair trial and it's
37:35
complicated though so Jack Smith would have chosen uh these these charges very very carefully when creating this
37:42
indictment and and that's how how these 31 documents got in there
37:50
another couple things just to put some more other thoughts out there to keep in mind
37:55
um to keep in mind about this is you know Jack Smith will have to when he tries this case really keep it simple
38:01
for the jury and it really is a simple case this isn't a complicated case and that's what any prosecutor does is you
38:08
you simplify it so that anyone can understand it and and you have to do it
38:13
in a way that again shows this isn't inadvertent this isn't okay you know Donald Trump is going to say well I can
38:20
declassify things with my mind you know that defense will easily be debunked uh
38:26
and like I said venues off the table which is good and you know Donald Trump has come out and said also the
38:32
presidential records act allows him to possess these documents I guess that's going to be one of his defenses well
38:38
anyone can read the presidential records act it's written in plain English not legalese and it very clearly it says the
38:45
opposite of what he's saying and so the jury will not you know will be sworn to follow the law
38:52
um but you know but Jack Smith has to get this case going and has to get this going quickly because once uh if it has
38:59
to happen before the general election um and hopefully before the the nominating process because otherwise
39:06
they'll have to press pause and it will not get tried if he is elected president
39:11
and of course if a republican wins uh they could pardon him or stop the prosecution
39:17
um these charges are very serious he faces over 400 years in prison if
39:23
convicted of all of them but of course you know people who have been charged with this type of of crime before it
39:29
didn't get anywhere near that but certainly I've never seen a case this serious of somebody who held the highest
39:36
office in the country and swore to uphold the law so so who knows what he will get and
39:43
um and there's just one other thing I want to talk about which is something you know uh I I watched um Ben's hot
39:50
Take On Eileen Cannon and how he's not worried if she is ultimately the judge
39:57
uh so let's talk a little bit about about what is going to happen if she's ultimately the judge and what are some
40:04
of the Mischief rulings she can do in this case so number one as Ben and
40:09
Michael hope both said I can't believe I called you Michael I always just call you popoc but his popock and Ben just
40:14
said it's not clear that she's going to ultimately end up with the case but
40:20
there's a couple of issues with this if she does end up with the case so number
40:25
one uh she could be um for the reasons Ben has talked about in his hot takes and I'm sure we'll
40:31
we'll talk about more here in detail uh there could be an issue that she has to be recused from the case because she has
40:38
already shown um that she's not competent to you know
40:43
to to have the case and I think that um you know I think that she has made a
40:50
couple of rulings in the prior it's a civil case that she had right the there
40:55
was the execution of a search warrant and then she inserted herself in a civil proceeding and appointed a self
41:00
um a special master and was reversed so I think there's a chance that you can bring a like like Ben has said you can
41:07
bring a uh a an action to recuse her from this case because she has shown
41:14
that she's uh biased and not competent to to hear this case so I think there's a good chance of that uh but also like
41:22
say she's not recused from this case and she does take this case you know there is some Mischief she can do and there
41:28
are ruling she first of all she can delay it you know so that it doesn't happen before uh before the election
41:35
which would be potentially fatal to this to this um prosecution
41:40
she could rule for example that the um you know if you were called Barrel Howe
41:46
ruled uh all the attorney-client conversations between
41:52
um between Evan Corcoran and Trump and others and Trump they fall under the crime fraud exception which is why the
41:59
doj got all of that evidence and that testimony well that doesn't that ruling
42:04
doesn't follow it's not the law of the case because that that had that case
42:09
this is a trial judge who can make trial rulings so she can reverse that if she
42:15
wanted now I don't think she will but she can she can create Mischief the
42:20
other possibility is she wants to redeem herself if she keeps this case and suddenly becomes a real judge and wants
42:26
to because she was raked through the coals by the 11th circuit which is the circuit that rules uh her and reversed
42:33
her and and essentially called for Lawless so maybe she wants to redeem herself who knows so there's lots of
42:39
possibilities with with Eileen Cannon but for anyone who says oh a judge just a referee and takes but just calls balls
42:47
and Strikes and you know this is this is um Smith's prosecution there isn't much she can do they're 100 wrong a trial
42:54
judge can make or break a case they can suppress evidence they can rule evidence in admissible important evidence or rule
43:01
other evidence admissible that shouldn't be and a lot of that is not appealable mid-trial you have to wait until appeal
43:07
and if there's an acquittal there's no appeal for Jack Smith so uh let's hope
43:13
and pray that it's not Eileen Cannon I don't trust her I think she's a terrible judge and I think she can harm this case
43:20
significantly and even possibly make it so it not go to trial so whatever anyone can do to
43:27
um to figure out how to get her off I think it'll be uh it'll be the best
43:33
thing for justice um I think uh I think at that at this
43:39
point um that's about all I I the comments I have to say I'm going to bring in my my
43:44
my co-hosts um but I think that's those are my overall observations and comments about
43:50
about this case about this indictment and about this prosecution

[admin]

Part 2 of 2

[Ben Meiselas] well I think the analysis both from you Michael
43:58
popock from you Karen Friedman agnifolo is incredible um one of the cases that I think the
44:05
prosecutors are going to lean on in trying to get Eileen Cannon recused is a
44:11
2006 case called U.S versus Martin and I want to talk about it because it's
44:17
binding 11th circuit precedent on the issue of recusal or reassignment of a
44:23
judge where a judge has made multiple rulings in the past that the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals has overruled
44:30
so it seems to be directly on point but I also want to touch upon sipa which you
44:35
men because I think we're going to be hearing a lot about sifa this is a case involving the theft of classified
44:42
information top secret information as you mentioned Karen it stands for the classified information procedures act
44:50
we're going to be hearing a lot about that and I think in particular uh section 6A and section 6C which
44:59
basically deal with the hearing regarding classified information and whether or not stipulated facts could be
45:08
substituted in place of actually showing a jury classified information while
45:14
preserving the due process rights of uh criminal defendants in the case there is
45:21
a whole procedure for how the different parties petition to have a document be
45:27
determined as classified information and again this is where if judge Eileen Cannon is conducting the initial review
45:34
there could be some Mischief done there but sipa also has a process where
45:40
petitions are made to the Circuit Court given the unique nature of classified
45:45
information but in theory what the substitution does so that jury is and
45:52
the public are not actually exposed to the highly classified information they
45:57
get a stipulated set of facts or there's some other way to convey the exact same information about what the documents are
46:04
so for example when we go to the 31 counts on page 28 of the indictment and
46:12
they talk about these records at page 2829 they go you know documents relating to military records of an adversary
46:19
military records of an ally nuclear records that description would be
46:24
similar to what a substituted stipulated set of facts can be so everybody will
46:30
start introducing that term sipa the classified information's uh procedures
46:35
act and I want want to give my own view about Eileen Cannon and I want to go
46:40
over a little bit of additional facts that are in that speaking indictment
46:45
that was just unsealed that and more after this quick break let's take a quick break to talk about our next
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welcome back to Legal AF we are live I want to thank Karen Friedman agnifolo
50:16
for her analysis unfortunately Karen had to go so you just got me and popock here
50:24
um but I really always love uh to hear from Karen Friedman agniflo and by the way remember she was the first person I
50:32
remember that day so vividly last November when everyone was saying who's this Jack Smith guy Merrick Garland is
50:39
just trying to you know you know put this on someone else so that they could you know you know not actually charge
50:44
Donald Trump and Karen Friedman agnifola was the first voice that pushed back on
50:50
that and pushed back on it powerfully and then the large media Network started catching up to it and saying hey this
50:57
this Karen Friedman agnifilo is right and I was like yeah she ran the Manhattan District Attorney's office she was like the acting Manhattan district
51:03
attorney she was the number two of course she's right Karen Friedman agnifolo is absolutely the best where we
51:09
last left off before where we took that brief break I was talking about the case
51:14
law in the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals that's the court of appeals the circuit court that uh supervises or oversees
51:23
Florida federal courts among other federal courts like those in Georgia and
51:28
I talked about The Binding precedent on reassignment and recusal here and it is
51:34
very much in favor of Eileen Cannon recusing herself whether she recuses
51:39
herself on her own she's previously has demonstrated a propensity for not doing
51:44
the right thing will special counsel Jack Smith on his own seek the recusal
51:50
or will the doj Seeker recusal motion or will the 11th circuit kind of Sue a sponte or a presiding judge basically
51:58
say no Eileen Cannon you are not on this case and uh and and demand a
52:04
reassignment and make the reassignment happen but here's what happened in this U.S versus Martin case on section 4
52:11
reassignment the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals reviews the record in that case where a district court judge continued
52:19
to make rulings in a in a sentencing matter that the 11th Circuit Court of
52:24
Appeals continued to overrule not once but twice for the 11th Circuit Court of Appeal said you're not following the
52:30
guidelines you're not following for whatever reason with respect to this specific defendant who by the way was
52:36
not the defendant to appointed you to the position but you keep making the
52:41
incorrect ruling and we're giving you the guidelines so finally in this section the 11th circuit set our settled
52:47
practice is to direct a specific Judge to reassign a case you know whereas here
52:53
the district court on multiple occasions has been overruled and reprimanded by
52:59
the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals and let's not forget judge Eileen Cannon was not just overruled once by the 11
53:06
circuit court bills there are two orders by the 11th Circuit Court of appeals stating that Eileen Cannon never had
53:13
jurisdiction in the first place that she intentionally interfered with the
53:19
Department of Justice's criminal investigation and by the way not in just any all matter in this matter in the
53:26
search warrant executed at Mar-A-Lago by the Department of Justice at Mar-A-Lago back in August 8th of 2022. that's where
53:33
she improperly illegally unlawfully interfered with two 11th Circuit Court
53:39
of Appeal orders saying that she impermissibly and improperly interfered and didn't file and didn't follow 11th
53:45
circuit precedent I I think that the 11th circuit will not want her to be a
53:51
stain on that circuit court and as a result I think they will ultimately I think that she will be recused however
53:59
I do think while there is a ton of Mischief as Karen mentioned that a district court judge could bring I do
54:06
think that and again this is why I'm very very confident here um this indictment is so powerful and so
54:15
bulletproof you even had people like Jonathan Turley who is the right wing uh
54:21
kind of legal spokesperson for all things kind of Mega legal conspiracy
54:26
theories it's so unfortunate that that's what happened to Jonathan turley's career he's a con law professor at the
54:32
George Washington University where I went to undergrad not where I went to uh law school I went to the competing
54:38
school at Georgetown but um I I think that when even Jonathan Turley looks at this and goes wow this
54:46
is very very damaging and he did it on Fox that speaks volume so I want to go
54:51
into oh and by the way have you seen this New York Post cover as well Chamber
54:56
of Secrets um and it's showing the photographs from the indictment uh and these are the
55:04
boxes that are in the bathroom right by the shower uh in Mar-A-Lago and by the
55:10
way you know you have a lot of right wing you know disinformation uh sources
55:15
all basically saying looks like the FBI did it again is it the FBI is taking
55:20
these photographs and making a messy no though if you just read the lawsuit if
55:27
you just read like we have the photo up now for those who are listening and audio and obviously for all of our uh
55:32
all of our YouTube Watchers you can actually see this but this is Walt nauta
55:38
texting another Donald Trump employee so Trump employee who's been indicted now to texting Trump employee too saying I
55:46
opened the door and found this it's Trump's employees photos isn't a doj photo and then for all of the people who
55:53
say oh um you know I don't see any classified information just read the indictment
56:00
like that's the thing with these right-wing people you know they lie and
56:05
they don't show their viewers the actual text because if you read this the next
56:10
sentence says nauta also attached two photographs he took of the spell Trump
56:15
employee two replied oh oh oh no and I'm sorry POTUS had my phone one of the
56:23
photographs now detected to Trump employee to is depicted below with the visible classified information
56:30
redacted Trump's unlawful retention of this document is charged in count eight
56:35
of this indictment so it is redacted that is why you can't see it in the photo but if you look on the uh kind of
56:43
the the the the right of the box where the documents are flowing out of you can
56:49
see the cover page with the classified border and it is redacted they're not
56:54
referring to the newspapers the issue is is that the classified information is being hidden within the newspaper
57:00
clippings and the classified information page is redacted and if you just read the document it says that that's why
57:07
it's important that we read this document let's let's just read some portions of this document okay let's go
57:14
to paragraph uh three of this which I think is one of the most powerful of the
57:21
paragraphs which says the classified documents Trump stored in his boxes included information regarding defensive
57:28
weapons capabilities of both the United States and foreign countries United States nuclear poke programs potential
57:35
vulnerabilities of the United States and its allies to military attack and plans for possible retaliation in
57:43
response to a foreign attack the unauthorized disclosure of these classified documents could put out risk
57:51
the National Security of the United States Foreign Relations the safety of the United States military and human
57:57
sources and the continued viability of sensitive intelligence collection
58:02
methods and then if you go to page 28 and 29 of this indictment on the 31
58:08
counts for the willful retention of the records page 28 and 29 like they list
58:14
what is in paragraph three like that's why you got to read these things and you got to follow you got to follow them so
58:21
here's an example uh count number three for willful retention of national uh
58:26
information National Defense information and it gives the classification top
58:32
secret sensitive information no foreign meaning it can't even be shown to any
58:37
foreign governments it's so top secret even among their intelligence communities undated document concerning
58:43
military capabilities of a foreign country on the United States with handwritten annotations in black marker
58:50
okay that's Donald Trump and black mark are doing it as you go to count five document dated June 2020 concerning the
58:57
nuclear capabilities of a foreign of a foreign country uh count six document
59:03
dated June 4th 2020 concerning White House intelligence briefings relating to
59:08
various foreign countries so on and so forth with all of the counts they're all like that going to paragraph 6A and 6 B
59:17
of the complaint um in July 2021 at Trump National Golf
59:22
Club in Bedminster New Jersey during an audio recorded meeting with the writer a publisher and two members of his staff
59:29
none of whom possessed the security clearance Trump showed and described a plan of attack that Trump said was
59:35
prepared for him by the Department of Defense and a senior military official Trump told the individuals that the plan
59:40
was highly confidential and secret Trump also said as president I could have Declassified it and now I can't you know
59:47
but this is still a secret and then 6B in August or September 2021 at the
59:53
Bedminster Club Trump showed a representative of his political action committee who did not possess a security
59:59
clearance a classified map related to a military operation and told the
1:00:04
representative that he should not be showing it to the representative and that the representative should not get
1:00:11
uh too close and then if we then go uh kind of deeper into the complaint where
1:00:18
we actually see from 6A and from 6B let's turn to page
1:00:26
22 and 23 for a second these are messages text messages as well from Walt
1:00:33
now to members of Donald Trump's family and on page 22 and on page 23 as popoc
1:00:42
described earlier these are Communications with it seems to be Melania where she's saying Donald Trump
1:00:48
wants very specific documents polled Donald Trump wants to uh you know bring
1:00:54
certain ones with him but not the full boxes and so again you have very detailed factual allegations here here's
1:01:01
the actual uh a message on May 30th 2022 at 12 33 PM a trump family member texted
1:01:07
now to good afternoon Walt happy Memorial Day I saw you put boxes to POTUS room just FYI and I will tell him
1:01:14
as well not sure how many he wants to take on Friday on the plane we will not have room for them uh plane will be full
1:01:22
with luggage thank you and so again they're talking about Donald Trump taking very specific documents and this
1:01:28
was right before June 3rd of 2022 where the Department of Justice showed up at
1:01:33
Mar-A-Lago to obtain all of the classified records in response to in
1:01:39
response to The subpoena finally I just want to show you from that allegation
1:01:44
that we had just mentioned 6A and 6B turn to page 15 and 16 uh for a second
1:01:52
and when you look at 15 it has the entire audio recording of Donald Trump bragging about this classified
1:01:58
information I mean just just look at these at this this dangerous idiocracy here Trump goes well with uh talking
1:02:06
about a senior military official who we believe to be General milley chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff he goes well
1:02:12
with the senior military official let me see that I'll show you an example he said that I wanted to attack country
1:02:19
a and we believe country a to be Iran isn't it amazing I have a big pile of
1:02:24
papers this thing just came up look this was him they presented me this this is
1:02:29
off the Record but they presented me with this this was him this was the defense department and him and then some
1:02:36
random writer who's like ghost writing a book for Mark Meadows who Donald Trump is showing this classified information
1:02:43
about a plan of attack on Iran goes wow and then Donald Trump goes we looked at
1:02:49
some this was him this wasn't done by me this was him all sorts of stuff pages long look Donald Trump is showing him
1:02:56
here the classified information and a staffer goes and Trump goes wait a
1:03:01
minute let's see here and then the staffer like starts laughing and Trump goes I just found this isn't that
1:03:08
amazing this totally wins my case you know and the staffer who has to be like a yes person with him goes and Trump
1:03:16
goes except it is like highly confidential and then the staffer goes yeah and starts laughing and Trump goes
1:03:23
secret this is secret information look at this you attack and and by the way
1:03:28
isn't this incredible and then the staffer goes yeah and the Trump goes I was just thinking because we were
1:03:34
talking about it and you know he said he wanted to attack Iran and what staffer you did Trump this was done by the
1:03:41
military and given to me uh I think we can probably write staffer I don't know we'll have to see yeah we'll have to try
1:03:47
to then Trump goes declassify it and staffer goes figure it out yeah then Trump goes see as president I could have
1:03:55
Declassified it and the staffer goes yeah Trump now I can't you know but this
1:04:01
is still a secret the staffer yeah now we have a problem Trump isn't that
1:04:06
interesting this is life or death stuff folks this is life or death stuff you know how many
1:04:13
of our assets people in our military people who defend our country could have
1:04:18
been and may have been killed because of this and they're laughing at it and Trump's
1:04:24
showing it to just random people don't have security clearances and if he's just showing it to random people and
1:04:30
saying that kind of lunatic stuff imagine what he's doing on a daily basis
1:04:35
when it wasn't recorded like that horrific horrific horrific but I just wanted to drill down on Those portions
1:04:42
finally I just want to mention that Donald Trump's lawyers have left uh Jim
1:04:48
trustee that is and John Rowley who were the leaders of his uh defense in
1:04:54
connection with the investigation prior to the uh indictment being issued and
1:04:59
then unsealed Donald Trump put out a message that seemed to imply that he fired them and then I wrote on my
1:05:06
Twitter account I go how soon after do we find out that they resigned like literally within three minutes later
1:05:11
they stated that they tender their resignation and they claim the reason they are resigning is because special
1:05:19
counsel Jack Smith venued this he filed the case in the southern district of Florida and that's why they don't
1:05:26
practice there is what they said in their resignation which absolutely makes no sense to me because the lawyer who
1:05:32
Donald Trump now has leading the legal team Todd Blanche is a New York Wall
1:05:37
Street lawyer not a Miami lawyer not a Florida lawyer and Jim trustee previously was handling Donald Trump
1:05:45
cases in Florida in federal court in Florida as well as before the 11th
1:05:50
Circuit Court of Appeal so I don't buy that at all and then popoc finally what what what what do we look forward to
1:05:57
next week we have the arraignment can you just maybe briefly explain what what an arraignment is there's no there's not
1:06:03
going to be cameras in the federal court building there aren't cameras in federal courthouses I think they should be so
1:06:08
what what happens on Tuesday all right well let me start there and I'll back up a couple things Karen said a couple things that you said that I thought were
1:06:14
interesting that I can amplify we're gonna have an arraignment on Tuesday we're going to know who the initial judge is going to be the the initial
1:06:21
part of the arraignment is usually done by a by a Magistrate Judge even though it says Reinhardt who was the Magistrate
1:06:28
Judge that issued the search warrant I don't think it's going to be Reinhardt the speculation
1:06:34
and people that practice down there think it's going to be Chief Magistrate Judge Edwin Torres who unsealed the
1:06:41
indictment um and uh they'll be kind of the what we call you know first day orders let's
1:06:48
talk about Trial in this case Gentlemen let's talk ladies and Gentlemen let's talk about when when it can happen uh
1:06:54
motion practice related to that a song about pre-trial um conditions of release from arrest
1:07:01
because he is going to be Donald Trump will be arrested second time in two months indicted second time in two
1:07:08
months he has to go through the same process DNA fingerprinting uh pictures and all that it's it's less uh it's more
1:07:16
stringent than even what happened to him in the Manhattan side he'll do that with the federal officers come back through
1:07:23
the doors with his attorneys whoever they may be in addition to Todd Blanche where is Chris kais by the way Chris
1:07:30
kais is a Florida lawyer that he gave over five million dollars to through his political action committee because
1:07:35
supposedly he was a Florida lawyer that knew what he was doing he's nowhere to be found Lindsey Halligan is a insurance
1:07:42
defense lawyer a very young one at that in Fort Lauderdale even though she's been brought to various meetings there's
1:07:48
no way she's going to remain in the case so but we'll see who the lawyers are going to be on Tuesday who the Magistrate's going to be on Tuesday
1:07:54
ultimately who the judge if if this judge issue is not resolved by her recusing between now and Tuesday and and
1:08:02
we've been involved with cases Ben you and I've been involved with cases where we thought we had one judge federally and then they recused or disqualified
1:08:08
themselves for various reasons we had another judge or or two other judges we've been involved with the cases where a third judge got a sign within a week
1:08:15
so I think that could all get sorted out even before you can't bury the lead there of what the case was it was when
1:08:21
we sued Marjorie Taylor green and she ended up settling with us um
1:08:27
I mean like let's talk about that okay so I forgot that was the lawyer for
1:08:32
Midas Touch sued Marjorie Taylor the green for blocking us on Twitter Marjorie Taylor green settled with us
1:08:38
paid us ten thousand dollars um and then we took the ten thousand dollars and then we donated it to uh two
1:08:45
groups that uh were for uh supportive responsible gun ownership but we had
1:08:51
three results based on the signed settlement agreement is not allowed to block anybody ever
1:08:56
again on her Twitter account so anyway back to you but we had three judges within five days so I think it gets
1:09:02
sorted out on Tuesday matches when I when I when I hear the reporting for those that are in the room I won't be
1:09:08
able to get down to Miami for this one um I'll know Edwin Torres magistrate because Edwin Torres is not Eileen
1:09:15
Cannon's magistrate when she goes to Miami very rarely she is the least senior as we've talked about in the past
1:09:20
of the 15 judges in sorry seniority she is still the least senior because there hasn't been a new appointment by Biden
1:09:26
the southern district because there hasn't been an opening there hasn't been an expansion of those seats so that's going to tell us a lot she either gets
1:09:33
out chief judge altanaga takes her out under the discretion that the chief judge has under the local rules and
1:09:39
administrative orders or ultimately on motion by the Department of Justice on the case
1:09:45
law that you cited Ben the 11th circuit ultimately takes her out so I don't think we have to worry about her but if
1:09:51
if Jack Smith comes into the room and uh Jay Bratt who signed the certificate of
1:09:57
trial lawyer which we have here in the back in which he picked West Palm Beach by the way as the venue as the Court
1:10:05
division within the southern district said it's it's about a 21-day trial this
1:10:11
is part of the speedy trial that Jack Smith said in his press conference when he said we believe that people are
1:10:17
innocent until they're proven guilty so we got to get to trial quickly in order to do that they are going to go like
1:10:22
full steam ahead as Karen outlined to get this thing to trial whether it's cited in Miami or back in West Palm
1:10:28
Beach whoever it's going to be and if it's not Eileen Canada and it is in West Palm Beach it probably rotates to judge
1:10:34
Middlebrooks wouldn't that be a special delight for everybody judgmental Brooks who already sanctioned Donald Trump once
1:10:40
for civil filings that had no merit so um we'll see how that plays out on Tuesday will he be detained pre-trial
1:10:48
pending the trial no not based on the crimes even as egregious as they are
1:10:53
will they pick up his passport it'll be discussed will they limit his travel it'll be discussed he has to assure
1:11:01
everybody that he'll appear back in these courtrooms for the various proceedings almost all of them that are
1:11:07
done live and not by video so he'll have to appear for those and they'll set a potentially set an initial trial date or
1:11:15
come back for a hearing in 30 days for an initial trial date and set that as
1:11:20
well government wants to do what they say is a four-week trial maybe six weeks or eight weeks but
1:11:26
that's it and they want to do it in you know uh early 2024 I'm sure they've of
1:11:32
course Donald Trump's other concern is he's got another criminal trial in Mar in uh in May of 2024
1:11:39
in New York May March March of 2024. so you got all that going on in terms of
1:11:45
the accounts that we talked about I think it's important as Jay Bratt signed
1:11:52
in his own filing the penalty sheet God I never thought I'd see the day whether it be a penalty sheet a sign that Donald
1:11:58
Trump and federal court most of the Espionage Act claims are 10 years but
1:12:05
for each count uh with supervised release of three years and 250 000 in fines the
1:12:11
obstruction of justice conspiracy is 20 years withholding a document a record 20
1:12:16
years concealing a document 20 years concealing a document in a federal investigation 20 years scheme to conceal
1:12:24
that's five years and there's a false statement is five years you had it all up it's like you know 400 years in
1:12:30
prison if they were done not concurrently but uh that's the government's position in terms of the
1:12:36
things you hit all the highlights but I just want to give a couple that were interesting to me the the
1:12:43
doj's indictment through the grand jury says emphatically that Donald Trump
1:12:49
misled the Secret Service as well that the Secret Service didn't even know he had highly classified top secret
1:12:55
documents that's one I was shocked by the level of involvement personal
1:13:01
involvement by Donald Trump in the search for documents in with holding
1:13:07
documents for the National Archive the president the presidential records himself selecting the 15 boxes in the
1:13:14
dress rehearsal that he would try to serve up to the National Archive that he personally Donald Trump reviewed those
1:13:21
that He personally gave the commands and had boxes uh 80 of them removed from the storage
1:13:29
room and only uh 50 of them returned and Lord knows what happened within those
1:13:35
boxes those were based on Donald Trump's personal review of those documents the
1:13:40
the quality of the evidence that they have developed to be able to say that emphatically in the complaint was
1:13:47
mind-boggling I always suspected that he would be involved but that there would be levels of buffers between him and
1:13:52
others no he was doing the bring me two more boxes texting himself to Walt now
1:13:58
to give me another box I need I need a new lid for one of these boxes and then
1:14:03
you know get him to Bedminster so they were the shell game of moving them all out of the White House and then him him
1:14:12
Donald Trump picking which ones would go back to the National Archive holding back 70 or 80 other boxes including
1:14:19
classified but even screwing that up because they had classified documents in the initial return to the National
1:14:24
Archive which led to the doj J referral which led to the summons and then to the search warrant and then just the
1:14:30
brazenness in which he thought he'd be protected by attorney-client privilege to tell Evan Corcoran hey when you get
1:14:37
that envelope went back to your hotel room if kind of poof some of them disappeared you know that wouldn't be
1:14:44
bad uh like the Hillary Clinton I.T guy do that I mean the fact that he would
1:14:50
even say that out loud and thank God we've got judges Ben sitting in the District of Columbia Chief Judges like
1:14:56
Barrel Howell and now Jeb bosberg who who listened to this evidence early on
1:15:01
we didn't have privy to it and were able to decide that there was a crime or fraud perpetrated likely by the
1:15:09
president of the United States in in the way he dealt with his attorney and thank God Evan Corcoran he didn't know it at
1:15:16
the time but that his 50 pages of handwritten detailed notes about his interaction with Donald Trump and his
1:15:22
audio musings thank God they got turned over to the government and we we said when that first happened I think you
1:15:28
remember the the legal AF Ben we were like wow notes attorney notes I mean I'm
1:15:33
thinking well maybe some random scribblings 50 pages of detail this guy was like methodical the other thing that
1:15:39
was fascinating about it and really damning for Donald Trump for being the indictment and it may answer the question that that
1:15:46
Karen posed before she left which is what was the motive the motive apparently looks to me like these were
1:15:54
my papers these are mine he said to his staff these are mine mine mine mine he
1:16:03
told his lawyers Corcoran so you have what do you got to do for the subpoena response well I gotta look through all
1:16:09
of your documents uh Mr President I don't really want this is quote quoted in the indictment I don't really want
1:16:14
you looking in my boxes I don't want you really looking in my papers they're mine so this mind this possessiveness this
1:16:22
narcissism is how he is how he treated these documents his own staff joked and
1:16:29
this is in the indictment referencing the movie A Beautiful Mind about John Nash
1:16:34
the um the troubled um economist and if you people remember the scene in
1:16:40
the movie where he's lost his literally lost his mind and is living in a shack behind his house where he writes on the
1:16:47
Windows of his house all sorts of crazy formulas and he's and the house is just packed with with with you know documents
1:16:54
piling out of things so they joked that they called it the Beautiful Mind paper boxes which were just stuff that this
1:17:02
guy in larceny Trump threw into the boxes spilling out with classified a top
1:17:07
secret he wanted the Beautiful Mind boxes for his own that whether it was a
1:17:12
Memento he thought he was going back to the presidency he wanted to show it off transactionally or use it whatever
1:17:18
that's the motive because otherwise right doesn't make any sense like why is he just give it back what he doesn't
1:17:24
give it back because he he believes that he owns it and not the American people and sees nothing wrong and then finally
1:17:30
Ben I love that they hoisted him on his own patar Donald Trump and Jack Smith's the way they wrote this really elegant
1:17:36
efficient word economy every word every word every sentence Advance the cause
1:17:43
there is no wasted sentences in this indictment very very elegantly written but simply written in the narrative I
1:17:50
love that they said to him hey um you you yourself in 2016 and 2017 2018 made a lot of statements about
1:17:57
classified documents you made a lot of statements about how you would protect the national interests and how people
1:18:04
who leave office that continue to have access to classified documents would only you know who have a political
1:18:11
partisan role in their future life should never have access to these
1:18:16
classified documents that is a that is a a moment of inadvertent self
1:18:23
self-admission by Donald Trump because he just described himself leaving office having no reason to hold on to these
1:18:30
things he's a partisan running for office holding on a top secret documents really really well done everything we it
1:18:37
was about I I learned about 40 new things that we
1:18:42
couldn't even have speculated about the deep deep involvement personal involvement up to his elbows Donald
1:18:49
Trump himself in the document scandal yeah and I definitely think the motive
1:18:55
also and you touched on it was transactional was money you know the
1:19:00
examples that we have in this indictment um were Donald Trump just showing it
1:19:05
around like trophies and bragging it about it as a tool of trying to have
1:19:10
continued relevance based on being a malignant narcissist hey isn't this cool I I really am the winner here like not
1:19:17
only is it so dangerous like just a complete and utter idiocracy you know which is what we always call out here on
1:19:24
the Midas dead network but Donald Trump has said before he's like Nixon traded his documents for 18 million dollars so
1:19:30
clearly in the back of his mind he had views as a prior criminal who held the
1:19:36
office um and Donald Trump makes up these stories in his head and Donald Trump again what we have in the indictment are
1:19:42
two examples where it was recorded of of him bragging about these documents and
1:19:47
showing it those are exemplars those are not the totality of instances is When
1:19:53
Donald Trump did this they just it's on tape so how could a jury ever go well that didn't happen we here it is play
1:20:00
tape but if he did it in those two instances I think the point of those is think about every time he uh he he did
1:20:07
that uh before as well and and would continue to do it if he's not stopped
1:20:12
you mentioned uh the ruling by the federal judges in Washington DC
1:20:18
presiding over the grand jury finding that the crime fraud exception applied that Donald Trump was using his lawyers
1:20:25
for the commission of ongoing criminal conduct such that they couldn't assert
1:20:30
the attorney-client privilege to Shield documents and try to preserve their their class their confidentiality from
1:20:38
being turned over to the Department of Justice and a lot of those rulings were by federal judge Beryl Howell who used
1:20:44
to be the presiding judge uh in Washington D.C over uh the criminal
1:20:50
grand juries there um and now it's someone by the name of James boseberg who goes by Jeb boseberg who presides
1:20:56
over the grand juries as the presiding judge in Washington D.C District Court and he's made a number of very important
1:21:03
and favorable rulings in the other case that's still being investigated by
1:21:08
special counsel Jack Smith for Donald Trump's election interference for Donald
1:21:13
Trump's attempts to overthrow our democracy and we've got some insight
1:21:19
into the type of powerful evidence that has already been presented before first
1:21:25
judge Beryl Howell and now judge bowsberg in that case that investigation
1:21:30
is proceeding we expect the same way we were predicting the indictments on the
1:21:36
case involving Trump's theft of government records and obstruction of justice to land pretty much precisely we
1:21:42
were spot on I think when we if you go back and Rewind the episodes of when we said that one was coming I think we said
1:21:49
May or June you know potentially a little bit later but but definitely definitely summer probably early summer
1:21:54
we all think that the other indictment is going to happen sometime in September
1:21:59
October um maybe late August but we believe there's definitely another indictment
1:22:06
coming from special counsel Jack Smith and again that's from everything for the conduct on January 6 the day of the
1:22:12
Insurrection itself leading up to it wire fraud campaign Finance violations threatening state and local election
1:22:20
officials and uh the fake elector scheme all of the that criminal conduct by
1:22:26
Donald Trump but an order that was just unsealed by judge bosberg and it's very
1:22:32
rare that we get insight into what's going on in the grand jury process so
1:22:37
what judge boseberg did because Pence gave a media interview and there's just
1:22:43
been a lot publicly discussed about um former vice president Pence testifying before the grand jury
1:22:50
Trump's talked about it Pence has talked about it Trump's lawyers have talked about it and so the judge basically got
1:22:56
a motion from media uh interveners who said they want to get their hands on the
1:23:03
transcripts and everything relating to former vice president Pence's uh testimony before the grand jury and the
1:23:09
judge is like look grand jury proceedings are confidential they always are in secret however I can release
1:23:16
portions of the order compelling former vice president Pence to testify where
1:23:22
the court overruled the assertion by former vice president Pence that the
1:23:27
speech and debate clause privilege a privilege for senators and members of
1:23:33
the House of Representatives not to have to testify in other actions and Immunity from uh various types of cases when the
1:23:42
court overruled that largely the court found that the speech and debate clause in a limited sense applied to former
1:23:48
vice president pence in his ceremony role as the president of the Senate so
1:23:55
when he was in that capacity and leading up in his preparation for his role as
1:24:01
having these ceremonial duty of counting the electoral votes the court said for
1:24:07
that limited purpose I'll acknowledge the speech and debate clause applies but for everything else
1:24:13
and everything else is what special counsel Jack Smith really cared about all of Pence's observations of Donald
1:24:20
Trump committing crimes all of Pence Donald Trump threatening Pence all of
1:24:25
that is fair game and uh former vice president Pence can testify on that I
1:24:31
just want to show you just a few pages here where the judge seems to you know certainly hint at the evidence before
1:24:39
them that yes it's fair game because Donald Trump was committing crimes um so if you go to page 16 of uh
1:24:46
bozeberg's order that was just unsealed again this order comes from March of
1:24:52
this year but it's now first being unsealed on Friday last Friday and the
1:24:57
court basically says having set out the ground rules the court may now get down to business it assesses these specific
1:25:04
topics and those are redacted in order to provide guidance to the parties going forward and note several areas within
1:25:11
those categories that the privilege does or does not cover the bottom line is that the conversations exhorting pens to
1:25:19
reject electors on January 6 are not protected they fall under Brewster's
1:25:25
rule Brewster's just a the Brewster is a case involving a senator who is taking
1:25:30
bribes okay so that's what Brewster refers to they fall under Brewster's rule that Communications
1:25:37
urging a legislator to act unlawfully or Ultra viries are not Preparatory or at
1:25:44
most only incidentally so to a legislative function there is no dispute
1:25:50
in this case that Pence lack the authority to reject electoral votes then
1:25:55
there's a redaction indeed as Pence described in his book he never believed that the vice president's role on
1:26:00
January 6 was anything more than ceremonial so here the basis of the
1:26:06
Court's ruling is that where someone is being instructed to act unlawfully those
1:26:12
are not legislative in nature so they're analogizing Trump to this other case
1:26:17
where someone acted unlawfully and then finally uh the uh if you go to page 19
1:26:24
it goes and explains this privilege that Pence is a side is citing up and and how the court is
1:26:32
construing it applies in a way that is Broad enough to ensure the historic Independence of the legislative branch
1:26:39
but narrow enough to guard against the excess of those who would corrupt the
1:26:47
process by corrupting its members okay so in compelling former vice president
1:26:53
Pence to testify what the court is saying there is that Donald Trump was
1:27:00
corrupting the process by corrupting its members if Pence was trying to claim an
1:27:07
immunity like being the president of the Senate it's subtle but very very powerful and tells you that that case is
1:27:15
moving towards uh very very serious charge as well and I'll pass it to you popoc but if we saw 38 charges that were
1:27:24
brought in this case in the southern district of Florida for the willful retention of National Defense
1:27:30
information and obstruction of justice I've always said I thought you're going to see hundreds of counts in connection
1:27:36
with the January 6th case that's being investigated I think you will see hundreds 200 300 you know close
1:27:44
definitely I think close to 200 counts uh in that uh in that indictment popock
1:27:49
I think you just made a hot tick for the all the Pence things there I don't think that's it you're done salty cut it
1:27:55
you're ready to go but let me see what I can hit I want to make a statement as you and I
1:28:01
have been talking about things for over two years to the audience members globally and
1:28:06
locally what we are describing in sometimes excruciating but hopefully
1:28:12
entertaining detail is a justice system that works
1:28:17
I know that we talk about you know how many times is he going to get away with it Donald Trump how many times is he
1:28:24
going to be yes there'll be a suit but will he will he be forced by a jury to pay anything the answer to that has been
1:28:31
yes look at all the suits that he files 90 of them attacking the election will
1:28:37
maybe one of them will be successful they weren't um maybe he'll his appeals to even to
1:28:44
the Supreme Court that he has packed with Maga right wing six to three majority will give him a uh will give
1:28:52
him wind at a sale it doesn't the federal judges on the Circuit Court some of them are appointed by him maybe
1:28:59
they'll come to his rescue in response to something they haven't they won't and
1:29:05
they can't and so we talk about Eileen cannon at length for good reason and she
1:29:10
was a poor example of the federal Judiciary at a moment that was important to our nation's history but
1:29:17
for every for everything else that you and I have talked about in the last two years involving Donald Trump trump his
1:29:24
henchmen and his cronies the justice department especially the federal one but even state
1:29:30
works so and it's something to be proud of and I'm proud today I know there's a whole bunch of lawyers and lackeys and
1:29:37
and Hangar honors and bootlickers for Donald Trump like Alina Haba who got on television they're still doing it Carrie
1:29:43
Lake made a comment during a press rally that there's a second amendment solution to Merrick Garland and Jack Smith's
1:29:48
indictment of Donald Trump I mean that sounds like the Secret Service should start opening an investigation into
1:29:54
Kerry Lake's threats against the Department of Justice and they should um so the the right-wing Maga are coming
1:30:01
out with oh sad day sad day in America sad day for justice I'm I'm ashamed to be a lawyer it's it's the opposite this
1:30:09
is what the founding fathers wanted it is a major protection guardrail firewall
1:30:14
firewall for our democracy the conscience of our democracy and every time you and I tell tell this of what's
1:30:22
Happening whether it's Jeb Bose Barrel Howell the judges of the DC Circuit Court even the judges of the Supreme
1:30:28
Court in rejecting Donald Trump's and treaties to interfere in Justice we are
1:30:34
watching this in real time some people get frustrated and get fatigued and like I'm tired of hearing about it tell me
1:30:40
when he's in jail but this is the process the journey that we're on together this journey that we're on together is
1:30:47
our justice system it's like the old John Lennon line life is what is life is
1:30:53
what happens when you're making plans we are in this is the justice system it all
1:30:58
if it's in all of its glory and and and warts and all but at the end of the day
1:31:04
when adults are in the room wearing the black robes and you have uh lawyers like
1:31:10
some of the finest at the Department of Justice handling the case with Jack Smith good things come out of it and thank God
1:31:16
that they do this is our this is why the rest of the world should be proud of our system of justice because we just
1:31:23
indicted twice in two months a former president of the United States for the
1:31:28
first time in American history and although it may not mean something so those that are continuing to run for
1:31:33
office and to grift it means something to everyone else that cares about democracy and Justice and we are so
1:31:40
proud that all of the legal a efforts everybody watching this who has been
1:31:45
with us from day one or if you're just joining us now welcome um but none of this is possible you know
1:31:51
without you this community this pro-democracy community that speaks the
1:31:56
truth you know Michael Popa Karen Friedman agnifolo myself my brothers all of the other hosts on the Midas touch
1:32:01
Network we just got sick and tired of large media networks gaslighting us and not giving us the facts and not spending
1:32:08
the time to explain the justice system and not spending the time to go through what's actually stated in the complaint
1:32:16
and showing the photos and explaining the complexity and talking about issues that may be difficult or complex but we
1:32:24
ultimately know that that's why that's why you're here you want to learn about that we wanna we wanted the media to be
1:32:31
like that and so when we didn't see the media doing that we just said we're going to create it ourselves so we did it we built the Midas touch Network we
1:32:37
built out legal AF and all of the other shows on this network but most importantly what you built is what's
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you watch these shows or after you listen to these shows on the Midas touch Network like legal AF you share this
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and the Midas touch Network we say thank you and it's an honor to be working by
1:33:22
your side historic episode today on legal AF we'll see you for the midweek
1:33:27
Edition with Michael popock and Karen Friedman agnifola which is always live on uh Wednesday evenings I'm sure
1:33:34
there's going to be a lot of information to report I'm sure there'll probably will even be a lot of breaking news live
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coverage here that we will be bringing to you on Tuesday and perhaps even Monday as we learn more information
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cooked up some new designs that were very relevant that store dot Midas touch.com we'll see you next time here
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[Music]

[admin]

Trump’s FEDERAL ARRAIGNMENT Transcript FINALLY Released
by Karen Friedman Agnifilo
MeidasTouch
Jun 15, 2023

Legal AF Host and Former Prosecutor Karen Friedman Agnifilo reports on the newly released transcripts from Trump’s federal indictment arraignment in Miami.



Transcript

transcripts are out I'm Karen Friedman
agnifolo from legal AF and we just got
the transcripts from the arraignment in
federal court of Donald Trump in the
southern district of Florida we heard
lots of reporting from reporters who
were in the room don't forget there were
no cameras allowed there was no
recording allowed so we did get lots of
reporting from people who were in the
room but we finally got the transcripts
I got to read them myself and so let's
talk about exactly what happened
in Donald Trump's Federal arraignment in
the southern district of Florida
so he was arraigned by judge Jonathan
Goodman Jack Smith was also there we
were are told by reporters he wasn't
sitting in the well so he wasn't
mentioned in the transcript anywhere but
we we know he was there the arraignment
started at 2 55 pm and it ended at 3 44
pm and it was in courtroom
13-3 this was both the initial
appearance and the arraignment of both
Donald Trump and Walt waltin also known
as Walt Nauta
an initial appearance is the first time
you go to court the arraignment is when
you are told what your charges are they
most of the time happen at the same time
but not always so this was both the
initial appearance and the arraignment
of Donald Trump it was only the initial
appearance of Walt Nauta his arraignment
has been put over a couple of weeks and
I'll tell you why in a minute the
lawyers who were there the prosecutors
were Jay Bratt David harbach and Julie
Edelstein and the lawyers for Donald
Trump or Chris kais and Todd Blanche and
Stanley Woodward appeared for Walt Nauta
pre-trial Services was also there and
pre-trial Services is a really important
agency that works for the federal
government and they interview every
single person who's arrested and they
make a recommendation to the court about
whether the person should be released
and if they or or should they be held
you know in other words should they be
they held in jail pre-trial or should
bail be set or are there conditions on
their release and pre-trial services
will also monitor somebody who's
released with conditions so that's what
pre-trial Services is I don't know
whether or not they interviewed Donald
Trump I assume they did because that's
part of the standard arrest processing
and uh so so we'll get to that in a
minute uh when I when we explain what
the conditions are that the judge said
so the judge started by thanking
everyone Under the Sun including the
entire literally the entire law
enforcement Community uh court reporters
everybody just thanked everybody and
then he reminded everybody that there's
no photos or videos of anyone uh in the
room you're not allowed to use devices
and that includes people in the
spillover room so what that told me is
they had a spillover room there was a
room which is very common to do if the
courtroom's not big enough to hold all
the people that there is you know when
there's cases that have a lot of
interest they open up another room and
they and they stream on video what's
happening in in the courtroom and so the
judge was speaking to both rooms both
the people in the courtroom as well as
the spillover room that there's no
photos no videos no recording whatsoever
so they uh the judge took the defendants
both Trump and Nauta uh separately and
they they didn't in other words he
didn't do both at the same time he just
did Donald Trump first and he asked
Donald Trump's lawyers are they
temporarily representing him or are they
permanent and that's important because
you know sometimes attorneys appear for
arraignment only and then uh and then
and then a defendant goes and looks for
a more permanent lawyer you can also
change lawyers at any time but these
lawyers Todd Blanche and Chris kise
indicated to the judge that they were
permanently representing Donald Trump
and so they might add new lawyers to the
team there was lots of reporting that
they're interviewing other lawyers but
apparently these two lawyers are in for
both the trial and the appeal they said
that on the record as well
the the judge then said you know
normally in this in this uh District
people wave the formal reading of the
indictment because it's 44 pages long if
a defendant doesn't waive the formal
reading of the indictment they would
have sat there and the judge would have
or the clerk would have read every
single thing that's in that 44-page
indictment however Donald Trump's
lawyers said as is very common uh we
waive the formal reading of the
indictment and entered a plea of not
guilty which is also was expected that's
obviously he's going to enter a plea of
not guilty and he demanded a jury trial
and that's a formality that you have to
do you demand a jury trial and and so
that's noted on the record and he'll get
a jury trial the judge then went on to
explain what's typical in our district
is how he put it so he said you know and
so it sounded like he was he was
educating both the lawyers who don't
necessarily practice their everyday and
Donald Trump as well as everybody else
who's reading these transcripts knowing
that we would read them he wanted to
make sure that he was educating
everybody so he would say things like uh
what what typically happens in our
district the typical steps in our
district are that the defense would
request a standing discover Discovery
order is that what your uh what you're
requesting Mr Blanche and Mr Blanche
would say yes your honor so at standing
Discovery order means
that uh that there's an order by the
judge standing means it's in effect the
whole the whole time the whole pendency
of the case and in order means it's a
court order because only the court can
order you to do anything in a criminal
case and it's a discovery order which
means the government is under an
obligation to provide Discovery at the
appropriate time to the defense then the
judge says and I assume you want a Brady
order and he said I assume that the
prosecutors know their Brady obligation
but I'm doing a standard Brady order as
well and Brady is comes from a very
famous case Brady versus Maryland which
is a Supreme Court case
um that's been around for decades and it
basically says if a prosecutor has any
information in their possession that is
exculpatory to the defense they must
turn it over and they must turn it over
right away you can't hold on to it you
have to turn it over at the soonest
possible practical time and you have to
say I have this information in in my
possession that tends to exculpate you
means it tends to show your innocence
even if you think the person's lying as
a prosecutor it's not up to you to say
well I think that person's lying I have
a witness who came forward and said it
wasn't him that's considered Brady you
have to turn it over
so the judge issued a standard Brady
order again standard so then they get to
the part and this is the part that that
I found frankly somewhat disgraceful uh
because they get to the part about bail
or Bond right about release because you
know everyone was calling this
arraignment perfunctory you know and I
heard a lot of people say it's just
perfunctory it's just an arraignment
well you know now I've been a prosecutor
for a very long time and now I'm a
defense attorney there's nothing at all
perfunctory about bail I mean about
um about an arraignment you were
formally told what your charges are and
and you know I tell all my clients and
um and frankly you know most as a
prosecutor you assume the same I tell my
clients bring your toothbrush you don't
know there you can't there is there is
no way you can assume that you are not
going to have bail Set uh in a case or
you could be remanded which means you
know no amount of money will get you out
and means there are no it means you are
held and detained period full stop no
bail
um but oftentimes if you do set bail
there are large amounts of money
especially in really serious cases
so I didn't I'm probably the only person
uh who didn't think this but I didn't
think it was it was going to be you know
no conditions to Donald Trump in a case
like this but apparently that's what
happened so the judge asked the
prosecutor Mr harbach uh you know I'm
I'm seeing that you are recommend not
recommending any dollar amount uh for
bail here and the prosecutor said that
is correct your honor and you are
recommending a personal recognizance
release which just means you get to walk
out that's it on your own that's correct
your honor and that is recommended by
the United States right right and you
don't want any conditions imposed other
than the because there's two standard
conditions number one and number five
which basically are like come back to
court and don't get arrested that's it
just don't commit any other crimes while
you're out but the other conditions that
are standard conditions that everyone
else has to abide by they don't apply
right you don't you don't view him as a
Flight Risk do you government government
says no so you're not asking for any
special conditions nope no Financial
component nope
and he says you know 18 USC 3142 sub a
sub 1 allows a defendant to be released
on their own recognizance on an
unsecured Bond if they're not a Flight
Risk and the person won't endanger the
safety of another person or the
community and he said basically are you
asking that he not surrender his
passport Port are you requesting that
that's standard I've never had a client
who hasn't had to surrender their
passport in federal court that's
outrageous okay nope no limitation on
international travel what about domestic
travel is there any limitation on that
because you know it's standard a
standard condition is no travel outside
the southern district of Florida or
whatever District you're in in a federal
case again all my clients can't leave
the district that uh that the case is in
that's a standard condition of release
nope your honor we don't see that as
necessary
okay then they get to you know they get
to one that says uh how about how about
the standard condition of forbidding him
from possessing firearms government uh
what's your position on Firearms
ammunition and dangerous devices nope no
problem he can do that too and then the
judge says what about are you requesting
that he avoid contact with the
co-defendants and you know what they
said nope we're not requesting that
either judge he works for Walt Nauta
works for Trump so that would not be
practicable so nope he can have contact
with the co-defendants
and the judge then said are you
requesting that Donald Trump report to
priest trial services in any way again
every one of my clients has to go to
pre-trial services and they said no they
said we're not asking for that at all
they're not asking for any special
condition of release and pre-trial
Services said the same thing they said
we're not requesting anything either
judge and so the judge says well okay
and clearly this judge was surprised
because this is so highly unusual and
Donald Trump is being treated
differently than everybody else once
again
the judge said you know what despite the
part of course the defense has no
objection to that right why as a defense
attorney would you have any objection to
these incredible terms and these
incredible conditions because Donald
Trump this doesn't matter he can just go
about living his life despite the fact
that he has another open indictment and
we know of two more open criminal uh
cases you know pending investigations
both uh January 6 with Jack Smith and
um and Fulton County with uh fonnie
Willis but despite the fact that there's
two indictments now and two other
pending cases no conditions judge and I
bet if you looked in the entire country
you will not find another case involving
a defendant who has two separate
indictments and two separate
jurisdictions and two other pending uh
Court in the I mean two other pending
criminal investigations and they get
this kind of a deal but he's Donald
Trump and so here he he gets this but I
think the judge was a little taken aback
that that there was Zero conditions and
he is going to protect the Integrity of
the case because you know he's the judge
that's all he really cares about is the
Integrity of the case so he says
however despite the party's
recommendations to me I am going to take
it upon myself to impose some additional
special conditions think thank you judge
thank you for you know being the
grown-up in the room and seeing that you
know what guess what Donald Trump is a
criminal defendant and shouldn't be
treated differently than everybody else
and he says I'm going to require that
Donald Trump avoid all contact with
Witnesses and victims except through
counsel and this will be effective once
the defense attorney receives a written
list of those Witnesses and victims from
the prosecutor and the prosecution
this prohibition is only effective to
those people who are written on the list
and he's also said the second condition
is he can't communicate with his
co-defendant Walt Nauta about the case
except through Council so in other words
he can have contact with uh Mr Nauta
since he still works for Donald Trump
but they can't talk about the case
unless they're with their lawyers now
Todd Blanche uh Trump's attorney
objected to these conditions he says
this isn't practical the witnesses
include his protection detail and
everyone who's around him every day is
just like with Nauta this happened at his
home in Mar-A-Lago it also happened at
his other Home Bedminster these people
work with him every day and he says you
know then he says and one witness is the
president's lawyer obviously that
doesn't work that was surprising that
I'm sure he means Evan Corcoran and so
Evan Corcoran is still his lawyer and
even though we know he's the one who is
turned over his notes and is telling
everybody what uh telling the prosecutor
what um
uh exactly what happened and what Donald
Trump did and said so that was
interesting that Trump still considers
Evan Corcoran his lawyer and then um the
prosecutor says okay you know what let's
just let me make a suggestion Mr harbox
says let me make a suggestion the
government will come up with a list not
all the witnesses but a list of people
who this requirement is necessary for
and that will accommodate Mr blanche's
uh
issue about incidental contact because
Mr Trump you know speaks to these people
uh every day so he and Mr Blanche um
Todd Blanche said you know what uh you
know I'm not sure about this I don't
want this I don't want this requirement
but but harbox says the prosecutor says
you know what judge let us let let me
and Mr uh Blanche try and come up with
something a proposal for you judge and
we'll come to you with a list and and
we'll I think we can sort this out
amongst ourselves clearly they were
caught flat-footed and didn't realize
this was going to happen and they were
totally unprepared because they spent
the next I'd say 10 15 minutes going
back and forth about this we have two
lists you know one for no contact at all
and others for don't discuss the case
and Blanche is upset about this and says
we can't do this and you know and then
and then um and then harbox says well
give us time to try to work it out and
they're going back and forth and backing
back and forth and um one point Blanche
says you know why should there be any
conditions everybody although all the
witnesses have lawyers you know and then
the court says that's a really broad
statement in fact every single witness
has their own lawyer but then of course
he hems and Haws and walks that back
because he doesn't want to admit that
yes everyone has a lawyer how do I know
because Trump is paying for everyone's
lawyers but but that's neither here nor
there that's what I think he didn't mean
to spill that that can of beans
um and so you know they go back and
forth on this for quite some time and
um and they ultimately land on uh the
you know because I think Todd Blanche
realizes
um realizes at a certain point going
wait a minute because he says is the
Court's requirement that the government
is going to give us a full witness list
because we'll take that and so I think
they realized you know oh my God you
don't normally get a full witness list
in fact some people are secret you have
no idea that they're cooperating and you
don't want to let the defense know that
they're cooperating because we know
Donald Trump will then you know bully
them put their name out there and and
really intimidate them and and and you
know like he has for every other every
other person out there call them names
you know whatever so so Todd Blanche
wakes up and realizes the this could be
a gift but you know uh but the judge
says no no no not so much let's just do
this okay let's just get a list of
people from the government that will
tell us that who it is that that uh
Trump should not speak about the facts
of the case that's it and if if the
person's not on the list and he talks
about the facts of the case then he's
not in violation of this order just
people on the list so the government's
gonna have to go back and say they're
probably they're going to probably say
this is not a full witness list these
are just the people that we don't want
Donald Trump to talk about the case with
so we'll see what they come up with but
that was a little bit of a
inelegant
um back and forth that people did not
expect and
um and there was a lot of time spent on
that but then they turned to the
co-defendant Walt Nauta
Stanley Woodward appeared for him but
he's not admitted in the southern
district of Florida which is a
requirement to appear in court there so
the judge used his discretion and
allowed Mr Woodward to represent him and
appear on the record for his initial
appearance but not for the arraignment
and so the initial the initial
appearance he gave the same conditions
on Mr Nauta that he did to Mr Trump which
is nothing and so it's the exact same
Bond and they put over his arraignment
for June 27th at 9 45 a.m before the
chief magistrate Edwin Torres but then
he said you know there's a Federal
Criminal procedure 10B that indicates Mr
Nauta doesn't have to appear physically
if he doesn't want to for arraignment if
he follows the procedures of the rule
but the lawyer does have to appear which
I found very interesting because that is
very different from New York State Court
where a defendant has to appear for his
arraignment
but I guess federally you don't have to
so he may or may not appear he may
appear on video he may appear in person
or he might not appear at all his bond
is already set as as exactly what what
Trump had and then the judge ends it
with the good news is when Mr Nauta
appears it will not be with me it'll be
the chief Magistrate Judge Ed Torres my
involvement in this case I think ends
right about now so he clearly didn't
want to have anything to do with this he
just you know it was his day uh that he
was signed up to be the duty judge to
handle any arraignments that came in and
that was that so now
um after Mr Nauta is arraigned the entire
matter will go before judge Eileen
Cannon who has been assigned this case
uh through the wheel which means it was
a random just assignment you know that
that comes up on the wheel
um you know when when they got Eileen
Cannon uh Jack Smith basically was the
opposite of winning the lotto it was the
worst possible hand you can draw because
she's already made some terrible rulings
on this case in the past during the
investigation and showed that she has
bias against Trump so we'll see where
that goes
um I'm sorry she has bias for Trump not
against Trump uh she has bias against
the government for bringing this case
um
so it was not a great not a great draw
um I think this you know arraignment was
fairly outrageous because you know I
want to just draw your attention to a
couple of other cases uh do you remember
Airman Jack Tashara who was arrested a
while back in Massachusetts he was a
young kid with the Air National
Guardsmen uh he he's the one who posted
classified documents about the word on
in Ukraine on social media and he also
sought to obstruct investigators he also
had a history of violent and racist
remarks and he is also a target for
hostile foreign power you know this is a
guy who worked on I.T for classified
computer systems and you know what he
also possessed the documents and only
showed them to a small group of people
to brag right just to kind of show off
look what I can get look what I can do
doesn't this sound familiar the entire
set of facts getting these documents and
bragging to a small group of people and
showing it to them then obstructing
investigators you know when they try to
retrieve this back and uh and and also
having a history of violent and racist
remarks well guess where Jack Tashara is
he is in jail why because he's dangerous
and he's a Flight Risk and this is a
serious case and so he's in jail
awaiting his trial also compare it to
Chelsea Manning Edward Snowden other
cases of of uh you know leaked documents
and you know it's just a very familiar
that anyone else who who does this is
considered a threat to National Security
but someone who who foments a violent
insurrection
who spews racist hateful uh violent
remarks and who recklessly and willfully
possesses and maintains and shows off
classified documents that are our most
secret materials
and who also has several criminal cases
that are either pending or under
investigation somehow he is released
with no conditions because he is once
again treated differently than everybody
else but not in the way he means he gets
away with everything that nobody else
does because he thinks he is above the
law and it is time now to hold him
accountable
thank you for joining I'm Karen Friedman
agnifolo from legal AF you can catch me
on Wednesdays with Michael popock at 8pm
Eastern Live on YouTube or wherever you
get your podcasts and you can also watch
legal AF on Saturdays with Ben Meiselas
and Michael popock also Saturdays at 8
pm Eastern