by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
November 03, 2023
https://www.democracynow.org/2023/11/3/ ... transcript
A leaked document from Israel’s Intelligence Ministry dated less than one week after the October 7 Hamas attack proposes the permanent transfer of Gaza’s residents to Egypt. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu confirmed the document’s authenticity but dismissed it as a mere “concept paper,” while Egypt and much of the Arab world has publicly opposed the forced displacement of millions of Palestinians. But the exposed plans have confirmed many Palestinians’ fears that Israel’s ultimate goal during its current offensive is their ethnic cleansing from Gaza, a reenactment of the 1948 Nakba that saw about 700,000 Palestinians pushed out of their homes and turned into refugees during the creation of Israel. For more, we hear from Israeli journalist Yuval Abraham, a writer for +972 Magazine and Local Call, who says that while the Intelligence Ministry is not particularly powerful, “this is an official state document essentially recommending the government to carry out an ethnic cleansing of Gaza.” Meanwhile, radical settlers in the West Bank are increasingly using the war on Gaza as cover to push Palestinians out of their homes and villages, often under threat of lethal violence. “Death is now everywhere, and things are deteriorating really, really quickly,” says Abraham.
Transcript
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman.
Israel is facing growing international condemnation for its 28-day assault on Gaza. More than 9,200 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza over the past four weeks, including at least 3,800 children, this according to the Health Ministry in Gaza.
On Thursday, a group of U.N. experts released a statement to express their, quote, “deepening horror” over Israel’s repeated airstrikes on the Jabaliya refugee camp, the largest in Gaza, that have killed at least 195 people in recent days. The group of experts said, quote, “The Israeli airstrike on a residential complex in the Jabalia refugee camp is a brazen violation of international law — and a war crime. Attacking a camp sheltering civilians including women and children is a complete breach of the rules of proportionality and distinction between combatants and civilians,” they said. Residents in Jabaliya say entire sections of the refugee camp have been leveled.
HASSAN AHMED RAYAN: [translated] The area has been completely destroyed. There are no Hamas fighters here. These are all civilians. They are all innocent people. No resistance here. There was a bakery here and houses. One of them had 100 people inside, and another had 50 people. This is destruction. This is a war against God and his prophet. It’s a war of extermination.
AMY GOODMAN: As Israeli troops encircle Gaza City and intensify its aerial bombardment, there are growing questions over Israel’s long-term plan for Gaza. One Israeli government office, the Israeli Ministry of Intelligence, has proposed the permanent transfer of Gaza’s 2.3 million residents to Egypt’s Sinai Peninsula. In a document dated October 14, the small governmental body stated the forced displacement of Gaza civilians to Egypt would, quote, “yield positive and long-term strategic results.” It lays out a three-stage process — the establishment of tent cities in Sinai and the opening of a humanitarian corridor, followed by construction of permanent cities in northern Sinai, and the creation of a, quote, “sterile zone of several kilometers … within Egypt” — and says, quote, “The return of the population to activities/residences near the border with Israel should not be allowed,” unquote.
Many Palestinians in northern Gaza have refused to follow Israeli orders to vacate their homes, out of fear they will never be allowed back. It’s unclear how Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu or his Cabinet have responded to the proposals, but the Biden administration has publicly opposed plans for the mass transfer of Palestinians. Secretary of State Tony Blinken is in Israel today, where he’s reportedly seeking a humanitarian pause to the bombing. Blinken is also planning to travel to Jordan, where he’s expected to assure Jordan that the U.S. opposes transferring Palestinians to Egypt or Jordan.
For more, we’re joined by Yuval Abraham, an Israeli journalist based in Jerusalem who reports for +972 Magazine and Local Call. He helped expose this proposal in his piece headlined “Expel all Palestinians from Gaza, recommends Israeli gov’t ministry.” Yuval has also reported on the growing number of attacks on Palestinians by Israeli soldiers and settlers in the occupied West Bank. He joined us Wednesday during a rainstorm in Jerusalem. I asked him to talk about how he knows the document from the Israeli Ministry of Intelligence is real.
YUVAL ABRAHAM: I know it’s true because I verified it in front of the Intelligence Ministry. And as you said, Amy, it’s a document that essentially asks the question: What will happen to Gaza’s civilian population after the war? And this Intelligence Ministry writes policy pieces and shares them with the defense establishment inside Israel. And, I mean, as you have mentioned, the 10-page document goes quite into detail and explicitly recommends this process of forced transfer. It also recommends to frame it in front of the international community as a humanitarian necessity, as something that is better than the alternatives that it poses in the documents, which is that the population will stay and die in their tens of thousands.
Now, I think it’s important to stress that this ministry is a small ministry. Despite its name, it does not actually deal with classified information, and it is not actually responsible for an Israeli intelligence organization. And it is not considered a very consequential or influential ministry in Israel. However, this is an official state document essentially recommending the government to carry out an ethnic cleansing of Gaza. And it has been written in a time when these ideas are making their way into the Israeli mainstream public discourse and to Israeli media.
I think, Amy, you know, a lot of us, a lot of people in Israel, are feeling shock. They feel a need that things will not return to the way they were before October 7th. They talk about security, especially after all of the atrocities that were committed by Hamas on October 7th, and the people who were illegally kidnapped and taken to Gaza and the murders. And I think we have politicians who have no political vision for the future. And they are, unfortunately, using this sense of wanting security to commit horrible and terrible war crimes in Gaza and killing already more than 3,000 children.
And I think this document and this bombing campaign are both a reflection of a worldview that only has force in its disposal to try and deal with a political problem. And the dangerous thing about this worldview is that it always fails. And when it fails, there are calls to use more force and more force. And if you push this worldview to the extreme, you will eventually end up with ideas like the ideas that we are reading about in this document.
And that’s why — and this is the final thing that for now I will say — that’s why, you know, as an Israeli, it’s very, very important for me to stress that I don’t think we can have security if Palestinians do not have freedom. And if we do not have a long-term political vision for the future that will end the situation where I have rights and freedom of movement and a way to vote, and Palestinians who are living next to me don’t, we are not going to have security. And I am very worried that — you know, I feel that this war on Gaza will not bring us security, and it will end, even if we topple down Hamas, by killing so many Palestinian civilians, we will create the next Hamas. And I don’t think it’s — I think this killing is unjustifiable. And I worry that the next war will come, and they will say, you know, “It didn’t work. Now we have to use even more force and even more force.” And even though this document right now might not seem feasible, I think this is the dangerous route that we are currently in. And this is why it’s so important to contextualize things and talk about a long-term political solution to the problem. And our leaders are not doing that right now.
AMY GOODMAN: Yuval, can you talk about where this document comes from, who it went to and how real it is?
YUVAL ABRAHAM: Yes. So, this document came from the Intelligence Ministry, which has a very small budget. And it seems like they have initiated it. They usually send out their documents to the Israeli different government offices and to intelligence organizations and the Israeli security establishment.
AMY GOODMAN: So, can you talk about what it means to have exposed it, and how they’re responding?
YUVAL ABRAHAM: Yeah. You know, for me, this is very, very worrying and troubling, because the government has not really acknowledged the paper at all. And none of us really know what the endgame of the government is in Gaza. I think in Israeli media, it has been downplayed as something that is going to harm Israel’s legitimacy for the war abroad. A lot of people are not taking it very seriously. This ministry is not considered, as I said, a very influential ministry. But we did not hear any clear and cut rejection of the document by the government. And yeah.
AMY GOODMAN: Can you explain what the right-wing Israeli Misgav Institute is, who has a similar proposal?
YUVAL ABRAHAM: Sure, yeah. It’s a very interesting and strange story. So, this right-wing think tank called Misgav, which is headed by Meir Ben-Shabbat, who was — he’s a very close associate with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, and he’s a very senior former Israeli security figure. And they published, a little over two weeks ago, a report that has the same identical conclusion, that Israel needs to transfer, forcibly transfer, all the civilians in Gaza, in Gaza to Egypt.
And this report was authored and written by Amir Weitmann, who is also a Likud member and an associate of Gila Gamliel, which is the Likud member who heads the Ministry of Intelligence, who wrote a report with the same conclusions. Now, these connections between the Likud and the right-wing think tank are also apparent because a month ago the Ministry of Intelligence has hired this Misgav Institute to carry out research as a freelancer for the government ministry.
Now, officially, the Ministry of Intelligence — you know, I’ve spoken to sources there — they’re claiming, you know, “This document, we completely stand behind the recommendation, and we offered it independently.” If you asked me, it’s very clear that there is a mix here between the government ministry and this extreme right-wing think tank. And it all seems to be coming back to different sorts of officials in the ruling party, the Likud.
AMY GOODMAN: And what about the role of Egypt? Earlier this month, Egypt’s President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi said he would reject the forced displacement of millions of Palestinians into Sinai, which is Egypt. This is what he said.
PRESIDENT ABDEL FATTAH EL-SISI: [translated] Egypt rejects any attempt to resolve the Palestinian issue by military means or through the forced displacement of Palestinians from their land, which would come at the expense of the countries of the region. The idea of displacement of Palestinians from the Gaza Strip to Egypt simply means that a similar situation will occur by the displacement of Palestinians from the West Bank to Jordan. This means that the idea of a Palestinian state that we are discussing and that the international community is discussing will no longer be possible.
AMY GOODMAN: So, that’s what President Sisi said, the Egyptian president. And this just came in from Ynet. Middle East Eye reported on the Israeli news outlet, saying, “Israel is proposing writing off a significant chunk of Egypt’s international debts through the World Bank to entice the cash-strapped Abdel Fattah el-Sisi government to open its doors for displaced Palestinians.” Again, that’s according to the Israeli Ynet news site. Yuval?
YUVAL ABRAHAM: Wow. Yeah, I mean, it’s clear that the fact that Egypt is refusing to open its borders is one of several reasons why this forced transfer plan will not manifest. You know, I think that it is a feasible scenario, if they do open their borders and tens or hundreds of thousands of Palestinians leave Gaza, that at least some of them will not be allowed to return. This has happened in 1967 and 1948.
And the document, which, by the way, you can read in full on the +972 Magazine website or the Local Call website, actually deals with this. It says — it reads in the document that Egypt will have an obligation under humanitarian law to allow for Palestinian civilians to flee and enter and find refuge in its territory. And it calls on enlisting the United States and other Western countries to pressure Egypt to do this. Now, you know, everything — we’re in a situation of extreme fog, and it’s unclear how this will develop, but the fears are completely justifiable.
AMY GOODMAN: Yuval, I want to thank you for bearing through this rainfall in Jerusalem. But I wanted to go to another piece —
YUVAL ABRAHAM: Yeah. Thank you.
AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to go to another piece that you’ve written, saying, the headline, “Settlers take advantage of Gaza war to launch West Bank pogroms.” While the U.S. government, before Hamas’s surprise October 7th attack that killed up to 1,400 Israelis — the U.S. government, Jake Sullivan, the national security adviser, something like 10 days before, said the Middle East is quiet now, and we can move on to other issues. But, in fact, in the West Bank, it was the deadliest year in years, right? You had more than a Palestinian a day being killed either by the Israeli military or Jewish settlers. And now, since October 7th, Israeli settler attacks have resulted in at least 115 Palestinian deaths, more than 2,000 injured, nearly 1,000 others forced to flee their homes. Can you talk about what it’s like to be in the West Bank, this increased Jewish settler violence? And also, you have a friend who was the target of the violence?
YUVAL ABRAHAM: Yes, yes, Amy, of course. I mean, I’ve just received a text message 123 Palestinians have been already killed in the West Bank since the beginning of the war, and seven of them have been actually murdered by Israeli settlers. And I spend a lot of my time in the West Bank, specifically in a region called Masafer Yatta, which is a region in the southern edge of the West Bank, a community of villages that for decades have faced really intense pressure and violence from the Israeli army, that constantly destroys their homes and refuses to give them permits, and from settlers that have been attacking them. And I think what is happening now is that settlers and soldiers are using this chaos of the war to continue and to end sort of this forced transfer.
And it was extremely horrifying to be there over the past few nights. We’ve had incidents where settlers entered one village — it’s called Susiya. They grabbed a boy and his father, and they told them, “You have 24 hours to leave the village, or we are going to murder everybody in the village.” We had an incident where one settler went down to the village and actually shot a Palestinian who was standing next to the mosque. There are incidents of torture, of abuse, of humiliation. And it’s happening every night. Like, I stayed up last night with a family. They’re not sleeping. And everybody is just — like, we see the settlers entering the village.
And I think that, you know, according to human rights organization, Israeli human rights organization B’Tselem, 13 Palestinian communities have already been displaced in the West Bank due to this settler violence. And yeah, and it will just increase and increase as long as the war continues, the bombing on Gaza continues and this situation continues.
AMY GOODMAN: You know, the national security minister, Itamar Ben-Gvir, this is a man who, what, in the last 15 years was convicted in Israeli court of being — supporting a terrorist organization and inciting violence against Palestinians. He announced the purchasing of 10,000 rifles for Israelis in West Bank settlements. Can you talk about what that means? Has that been carried out? And what supporting settler violence — what that means, particularly now?
YUVAL ABRAHAM: Yeah, of course. So, what is going on right now is a complete inability to even differentiate between who is a soldier and who is a settler. Is it a settler that is in reserves? Is it a settler that received a weapon from Ben-Gvir and put on, you know, his army uniform? Are these soldiers? There is a complete confusion. And we are seeing a lot of, quote-unquote, “independent settler initiatives,” where they are putting on soldier uniforms and going into villages and harassing Palestinians. This is happening all over Area C. This is the way the military refers to it, which is essentially all of the open territories in the West Bank, where there are 180 small Palestinian villages and all the Israeli settlements. And Israel’s policy for many years has been to try to forcibly evict these 180 communities.
And I think now with many more settlers receiving weapons, with all of these incidents of murder and threats, this eviction is taking place. And I think, definitely, the arming of so many people is part of that process, which is, you know, understood in Israeli society also as a response to October the 7th, the need of people to be armed to be able to defend themselves. At least in the West Bank, these weapons are used to evict Palestinians from their homes.
AMY GOODMAN: And finally, how have Israeli activists and international charities been involved in supporting Palestinians in the West Bank?
YUVAL ABRAHAM: So, I’m not sure about international charities. I mean, I know that a lot of them have supplied these communities that are at risk of forced transfer, little homes that you can live in, because Israel always comes and destroys their homes. They can’t get building permits. And it was extremely ironic. Like, I was in a village called Zenuta, in this area of Masafer Yatta, two days ago, and the residents were dismantling all of these homes using their own hands. And they were essentially leaving the village. I spoke to a 70-year-old person who told me that — you know, we drank tea, and he said, “This is probably the last time I will drink tea in this place that I grew up in.” So, these international organizations — you know, all of this support is now just being dismantled by the residents, who are afraid for their lives.
I think what we, as Israeli activists, are trying to do there — and this is also not always working, but the fact that we are Israeli, the fact that we speak Hebrew, gives us a certain privilege. And when these attacks happen, we try to deescalate the situation. We try to make sure that the settlers that are attacking the village see us, that we are first, that we can film them, that there are journalists here. We try to talk in Hebrew. But things — you know, death is now everywhere, and things are deteriorating really, really quickly. And I feel like all of the things that we were previously doing are now not working.
And, you know, again, I have to ask the world to wake up, to call for a ceasefire. If we continue to destroy Gaza like this, it will destroy us, as well. We will not have security in the future, and it will destroy the West Bank and the possibility of ever living here in equality and in peace between Israelis and Palestinians. So it’s time to change course and talk about the political issues at hand.
AMY GOODMAN: Yuval Abraham, an Israeli journalist based in Jerusalem who reports for +972 Magazine and Local Call. We’ll link to his article “Expel all Palestinians from Gaza, recommends Israeli gov’t ministry.”
When we come back, we speak to Josh Paul. He recently resigned from the State Department in protest of the Biden administration’s policies on Israel and Palestine. Back in 30 seconds.
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State Department Official Resigns, Says Israel Is Using U.S. Arms to Massacre Civilians in Gaza
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
November 03, 2023
https://www.democracynow.org/2023/11/3/ ... transcript
We speak with Josh Paul, a former State Department official who resigned last month to protest continued arms sales to Israel amid its bombardment of Gaza, writing in a viral letter that one-sided U.S. support for Israel is “shortsighted,” “destructive” and “contradictory.” Media reports say many others inside the State Department are equally frustrated with the U.S. role in the conflict. Paul tells Democracy Now! he tried to raise his concerns with his superiors but found “no appetite for that discussion” and that unlike all other U.S. arms sales that take humanitarian concerns into account, Israel gets a blank check. Paul says the overall message inside the Biden administration is: “Don’t question the policy because it’s coming from the top.”
Transcript
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman.
Amidst growing international condemnation of Israel’s monthlong assault on Gaza, U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken is back in Israel today to meet with Israeli officials, where he continued to emphasize Israel’s right to defend itself following the October 7th Hamas attack. Meanwhile, the White House continues to dismiss calls for a full ceasefire, saying instead any pauses in fighting should be temporary and localized.
This comes as the independent news outlet In These Times reports the White House has requested an unprecedented loophole in arms spending to allow it to, quote, “be able to conduct arms deals with Israel in complete secrecy, without oversight from Congress or the public,” unquote, “even as experts say Israel has been using U.S.-supplied weapons to commit war crimes,” unquote.
Meanwhile, a new HuffPost report cites five current and one recently departed State Department official who say their, quote, “expertise and standard decision-making processes are being treated as largely irrelevant to President Joe Biden’s strategy on the war, which prioritizes support for Israel,” unquote. One official described, quote, “particular concern about the town hall for the department’s branch on human rights. Managers, who described the branch as ’State’s conscience,’ indicated that they aren’t sure if they are getting through to more senior officials.”
For more, we’re joined by Josh Paul, the State Department official who resigned last month in protest of Biden’s push to increase arms sales to Israel amidst its siege on Gaza, calling it “shortsighted,” “destructive” and “contradictory.” In his resignation letter, that went viral, Josh Paul wrote, quote, “We cannot be both against occupation, and for it. We cannot be both for freedom, and against it. And we cannot be for a better world, while contributing to one that is materially worse. … I believe to the core of my soul that the response Israel is taking, and with it the American support both for that response, and for the status quo of the occupation, will only lead to more and deeper suffering for both the Israeli and the Palestinian people — and is not in the long term American interest,” unquote. Josh Paul is former director of congressional and public affairs for the Bureau of Political-Military Affairs in the State Department, which oversees arms transfers to Israel and other foreign nations.
Why I Resigned From the State Department
by Josh Paul
Counterpunch
October 19, 2023
Today I informed my colleagues that I have resigned from the State Department, due to a policy disagreement concerning our continued lethal assistance to Israel. To further explain my rationale for doing so, I have written the attached note.
I joined the Bureau of Political-Military Affairs (PM) over 11 years ago, and have found it a fascinating job with engaging, and often immensely challenging – intellectually and morally – tasks and objectives. I have been proud in my time of service to have made many differences, both visibly and behind the scenes, from advocating for Afghan refugees, to pushing back (with not insignificant results) on pending Administration decisions to transfer lethal weapons to countries that abuse human rights, to sculpting policies and practices that advance human rights, to working tirelessly to advance those policies and decisions that are good and just; from our global humanitarian demining efforts to our support for Ukraine’s defense in the face of murderous Russian aggression.
When I came to this Bureau, the U.S. Government entity most responsible for the transfer and provision of arms to partners and allies, I knew it was not without its moral complexity and moral compromises, and I made myself a promise that I would stay for as long as I felt I the harm I might do could be outweighed by the good I could do. In my 11 years I have made more moral compromises than I can recall, each heavily, but each with my promise to myself in mind, and intact. I am leaving today because I believe that in our current course with regards to the continued – indeed, expanded and expedited – provision of lethal arms to Israel – I have reached the end of that bargain..
Yes, PM can still do an immense amount of good in the world: there is still, sadly, a great need for American security assistance – a need for American arms and defense cooperation to defend against the multiple military perils that democracy, democracies, and humanity itself, face on this earth. But we cannot be both against occupation, and for it. We cannot be both for freedom, and against it. And we cannot be for a better world, while contributing to one that is materially worse.
Let me be clear: Hamas’ attack on Israel was not just a monstrosity; it was a monstrosity of monstrosities. I also believe that potential escalations by Iran-linked groups such as Hezbollah, or by Iran itself, would be a further cynical exploitation of the existing tragedy. But I believe to the core of my soul that the response Israel is taking, and with it the American support both for that response, and for the status quo of the occupation, will only lead to more and deeper suffering for both the Israeli and the Palestinian people – and is not in the long term American interest. This Administration’s response – and much of Congress’ as well – is an impulsive reaction built on confirmation bias, political convenience, intellectual bankruptcy, and bureaucratic inertia. That is to say, it is immensely disappointing, and entirely unsurprising. Decades of the same approach have shown that security for peace leads to neither security, nor to peace. The fact is, blind support for one side is destructive in the long term to the interests of the people on both sides. I fear we are repeating the same mistakes we have made these past decades, and I decline to be a part of it for longer.
I am not ignorant when it comes to the situation in the Middle East. I was raised surrounded by debates about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict; my Master’s thesis was about Israeli counterterrorism and civil rights (in researching it I met two men who have since been among my lifelong heroes, Uri Avnery, and an Israeli Palestinian advocate I shall not name here); I served for the U.S. Security Coordinator, living in Ramallah while advancing security sector governance within the Palestinian Authority and liaising with the IDF; and, I have deep personal ties to both sides of the conflict. Those who know me best know that I have opinions, and they are strong ones. But this is what is at the core of them: that there is beauty to be found everywhere in this world, and it deserves both protection, and the right to flourish, and that is what I most desire for Palestinians and for Israelis. The murder of civilians is an enemy to that desire – whether by terrorists as they dance at a rave, or by terrorists as they harvest their olive grove. The kidnapping of children is an enemy to that desire – whether taken at gunpoint from their kibbutz or taken at gunpoint from their village. And, collective punishment is an enemy to that desire, whether it involves demolishing one home, or one thousand; as too is ethnic cleansing; as too is occupation; as too is apartheid.
It is my firm belief that in such conflicts, for those of us who are third parties, the side we must pick is not that of one of the combatants, but that of the people caught in the middle, and that of the generations yet to come. It is our responsibility to help the warring parties build a better world. To center human rights, not to hope to sideline or sidestep them through programs of economic growth or diplomatic maneuvering. And, when they happen, to be able to name gross violations of human rights no matter who carries them out, and to be able to hold the perpetrators accountable – when they are adversaries, which is easy, but most particularly, when they are partners.
I acknowledge and am heartened to see the efforts this Administration has made to temper Israel’s response, including advocating for the provision of relief supplies, electricity, and water to Gaza, and for safe passage. In my role in PM, however, my responsibilities lie solidly in the arms transfer space. And that is why I have resigned from the U.S. Government, and from PM: because while I can, and have, worked hard to shape better policy making in the security assistance field, I cannot work in support of a set of major policy decisions, including rushing more arms to one side of the conflict, that I believe to be shortsighted, destructive, unjust, and contradictory to the very values that we publicly espouse, and which I wholeheartedly endorse: a world built around a rules-based order, a world that advances both equality and equity, and a world whose arc of history bends towards the promise of liberty, and of justice, for all.
And I would note with concern in parting, as regards competitions well beyond this current conflict, that if we want a world shaped by what we perceive to be our values, it is only by conditioning strategic imperatives with moral ones, by holding our partners, and above all by holding ourselves, to those values, that we will see it.
I want to close by noting that while bureaucracy is not without its automatons, and that, as I have learnt, physical courage comes easier than moral courage, I have had the privilege of working with a large number of truly thoughtful, empathetic, courageous, and good civil servants, and many of them can be found in PM, from its entry level to its most senior level. As they carry on advancing the interests of the nation and the world in a field in which, perhaps more than any other, it is easier to be better than it is to be good, I can say without hesitation that they are the best. I wish them continued success, strength, and courage. And I wish all of us – peace.
Josh Paul, October 18, 2023
Welcome to Democracy Now!, Josh Paul.
JOSH PAUL: Thank you very much for having me. I’m glad to join you.
AMY GOODMAN: Can you elaborate on why you decided to resign — you’re a veteran State Department official — why you said no?
JOSH PAUL: Yes, thank you. I decided to resign for three reasons, the first and most pressing of which is the very, I believe, uncontroversial fact that U.S.-provided arms should not be used to massacre civilians, should not be used to result in massive civilian casualties. And that is what we are seeing in Gaza and what we were seeing, you know, very soon after the October 7th horrific attack by Hamas. I do not believe arms should be — U.S.-provided arms should be used to kill civilians. It is that simple.
Secondly, I also believe that, you know, as your previous guest identified, there is no military solution here. And we are providing arms to Israel on a path that has not led to peace, has not led to security, neither for Palestinians nor for Israelis. It is a moribund process and a dead-end policy.
And yet, when I tried to raise both of these concerns with State Department leadership, there was no appetite for discussion, no opportunity to look at any of the potential arms sales and raise concerns about them, simply a directive to move forward as quickly as possible. And so I felt I had to resign.
AMY GOODMAN: So, talk more about that. Talk more about what kind of dialogue goes on at the State Department and if you, for example, have met with Tony Blinken, the secretary of state, not to mention President Biden, to voice your concerns. And what about other veteran State Department officials?
JOSH PAUL: So, typically, there is a very robust policy process in the State Department for arms transfers. And there are a lot of those, right? So, we’re talking about about 20,000 arms sale cases a year that the State Department processes, which could be anything from bullets to radios to fighter jets. And for each of those, there is a lengthy process, sometimes, that looks at, you know, what are the pros and cons of the sale, what are its human rights implications. That has not happened in this context for Israel. And as I say, when I raised those concerns against the existing laws, against the existing policies, there was no appetite for that discussion.
I have not personally spoken to Secretary Blinken about this, nor, certainly, to President Biden. But I know that in the time since I left, there has been increasing discussion within the State Department, but has not led to any change of policies. In fact, as you heard earlier on your show, Vice President Harris was just saying yesterday that we will not place any conditions whatsoever on our arms to Israel. And that is unlike any arms transfer decision I’ve ever been a part of. There’s always discussion about should we condition this to address human rights issues.
AMY GOODMAN: So, who is leading this, Josh Paul? Who is preventing this? Who is suppressing all of this discussion within the State Department?
JOSH PAUL: I honestly think, in some ways, that it’s coming from the very top of the U.S. government and from the Biden White House. You know, there are many in the State Department, and across government, who have reached out to me in recent weeks, since I left, to express their support, but also to say how difficult and how horrific they are finding U.S. policy, and yet are being told, when they try to raise these concerns, “Look, you can get emotional support if you’re finding this difficult. We’ll find you something else to work on. But don’t question the policy, because it’s coming from the top.”
AMY GOODMAN: The HuffPost has this new piece that reports, “A task force on preventing atrocities did not meet until two weeks into the war, and officials say department leaders are telling them their expertise won’t affect policy.” Explain what goes on.
JOSH PAUL: So, whenever there is a crisis, as there is right now in Israel and Gaza, the department sets up a task forces or multiple task forces that are uniquely shaped to address that crisis. So, for example, in the context of an earthquake, they might bring in experts on refugee issues, on weather issues, on disease issues, you know, that sort of broad swath of people.
In the context of Gaza, they have set up a task force to look at this problem, but, according to the report you cite, it does not include the Bureau of Population, Refugees, and Migration, who are responsible for U.S. support to refugee issues. So, it is either a stunning oversight, or it is an intentional disregard for the humanity of Palestinian civilians in Gaza.
AMY GOODMAN: At a meeting on October 26th, a State Department source told you they recalled a top official advising staff to shift their focus away from Israel-Palestine and seek to make a difference in other parts of the world?
JOSH PAUL: So, I don’t believe that that was a conversation that I had with someone, but that is in the same report in The Huffington Post that you cite, yes.
AMY GOODMAN: So, they’re directing them not even to make comments on this, just stop talking about Israel-Palestine.
JOSH PAUL: Yes, that’s right. And I think, look, I mean, that reflects a tension or a censorship — right? — that we are seeing not only in the U.S. government. I think what’s interesting here is this censorship that has existed and expanded to colleges and universities, where you talked about the doxing. I’ve also heard from many people across the American private sector, both from the Arab American community but also more broadly, from all sorts of diverse communities, who have said, “We are afraid to speak up on this, because we are in fear of our jobs.” It’s the same climate in government. And that is just not American.
AMY GOODMAN: So, I wanted to ask you about this In These Times report that the White House has requested an unprecedented loophole in arms spending to allow it to be able to conduct arms deals with Israel in complete secrecy, without oversight from Congress or the public.
JOSH PAUL: Yeah. So, we provide Israel with $3.3 billion a year in foreign military financing, which is the State Department and U.S. government’s primary functional — primary mechanism for funding the sale of arms to other countries. Of note, you know, we typically provide — setting aside Ukraine — about $6 billion a year in foreign military financing around the world. So Israel already gets more than half of that.
The language in the supplemental request that the Biden administration set up — sent up would remove the requirement to notify Congress of any arms sales conducted under that funding. Typically, there is a process where, for any major defense sale, Congress is notified of it. And there’s actually a process prior to the formal notification where Congress gets to ask questions, poke, prod, delay, and then, if it wishes to oppose the sale, can raise a joint resolution of disapproval on the floor. What this proposal would do is, essentially, destroy all of that, remove all of that, remove that congressional oversight, remove that congressional ability to object. It is unprecedented. I have never seen anything like it. And I cannot imagine that the committees of jurisdiction are viewing it very favorably, because it is just such a damaging approach that also sets horrible precedent for other countries with whom future administrations may decide they don’t want Congress to be involved.
AMY GOODMAN: Since you were in charge of arms sales, what does this $14 billion that — well, it looks like both houses want to send it to Israel.
JOSH PAUL: Yes.
AMY GOODMAN: It’s just that the House one is controversial because they want to take that $14 billion from the IRS, and also they want to sever the funding for Israel from the funding for Ukraine. And Chuck Schumer, the Senate majority leader, says he won’t consider this bill. But it sounds like there is enough support in both houses for that extra — not the $3.8 billion or $3.3 billion yearly aid to Israel, but an extra $14 billion. You’re the expert on arms sales. What would it be used for?
JOSH PAUL: Yeah, and let me just say, I think there is, you know, almost or near-unanimous congressional support for this further military assistance to Israel. And I think what’s fascinating about that is also there’s a massive disconnect between where Congress is on these issues and where, I think, if you look at the polling, the American public are. And I think the current crisis is really crystallizing that difference. I don’t think it will make any difference in terms of the passage of this package, but it may do down the line.
With regards to this package specifically, it includes $3.5 billion in foreign military financing. Israel can draw on that to purchase essentially what it wants. And what’s unusual about this, as well, in addition to the removal of the notification, is that Israel would be entitled, under the proposal sent to Congress, to spend all of this money within its own defense industry. Israel is, of course, a top 10 exporter of arms around the world, often competing with the United States. And the idea that we will be providing funding to subsidize that competition is really unimaginable.
But on top of that, the package also provides further funding from the Defense Department side for air and missile defense for Israel, for Iron Dome. And let me be clear: My concern here is on lethal assistance to Israel. When it comes to protecting civilians from rocket attacks, I believe that they should be. I don’t believe anyone should have to live in fear of their homes — in their homes from rockets raining down on them, although I believe that’s the case whether they are in Israel under the Iron Dome or whether they are in Gaza, for example. And, of course, we never ask that question.
The funding, finally, would also include research and development funding for equipment, such as there is an experimental laser project called Iron Beam, which the U.S. and Israel are working together on, an air and missile defense system. If this is an emergency request, why are we looking at research and development for projects that have not even materialized yet? That doesn’t sound like an emergency to me. So, as with the arms transfers I saw when I was departing from the department, I think there is just a rush to push everything they can while they feel there is a window of political opportunity here where there will be no significant opposition.
AMY GOODMAN: What kind of response was there to your resignation?
JOSH PAUL: So, to my resignation, I would say there has been an overwhelming response that I have heard from folks or from colleagues inside not only in the State Department, but across the U.S. government, actually, on the Hill, in the Defense Department, in the uniformed military services, including in combatant commands around the world. People have reached out to me to say, you know, “We fully agree with you.” You know, obviously, everyone has their own personal circumstances. You know, I think if we had universal healthcare, it would make it a bit easier for people to stand up on principle. I myself am, you know, trying to figure out what I do next on healthcare. But the point is that so many people have reached out to say, “We hear you. We agree with you.”
And I think, you know, one of the things I found is that a lot of people can be in individual offices and say, “There is no — I can’t speak up, because I will lose my job. I will put my career in jeopardy. And there’s no one else here I can talk to.” And yet I’m hearing from someone else just a few desks over who is saying the same thing. So I think there really is a communications crisis, a transparency crisis within the U.S. government, and a policy crisis, because when you can’t talk about foreign policy, when you can’t debate, when you can’t criticize, you don’t end up with good policy.
AMY GOODMAN: Josh Paul, why was this the last straw for you? I mean, for example, if you were in charge of weapons sales, presumably you were dealing with Saudi Arabia, notoriously authoritarian. U.S. agencies concluded, even in just one case, the murder of Jamal Khashoggi, that the Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman was responsible for this. You oversaw arms sales to them, presumably. Why Israel?
JOSH PAUL: So, let me just be clear: I was one of multiple people involved in the arms sales process. Arms sales themselves are a presidential authority that is delegated to the secretary of state, and then, through the secretary of state, to the undersecretary, who is actually responsible for approving them, for the most part. But you’re right. And as I said in my resignation letter, in my time in the department, I dealt with many morally challenging, controversial arms sales.
I think what made the difference for me here is that for all of those previous instances, even under the Trump administration, mind you, there was always room for discussion and debate and the ability to mitigate some of the worst possible outcomes, to delay sales until crises had passed, so that they weren’t contributing immediately into a humanitarian crisis, to work with Congress and be confident that once the policy debate had ended in the State Department, there would be a congressional piece to it, too. And Congress generally has stood up in the past repeatedly on matters of human rights and arms sales. What was different here was that there was none of that. There was no debate. There was no space for debate. And there was also no congressional appetite or willingness to have debate.
AMY GOODMAN: There’s going to be a major march in Washington tomorrow. Three hundred fifty people were arrested in Philly. We’re going to play some clips of a major protest in Boston that happened last night. How much does grassroots protest like this, the thousands of people who are protesting around the country, the shutdown of Grand Central by Jewish groups just last Friday night, have on the State Department, on the White House?
JOSH PAUL: So, I don’t think it has much impact on the State Department. And that’s OK, because I think policy processes are meant to happen within a policy framework, [inaudible] and the problem is they’re not happening.
I think it does have an impact on the White House. I think we’ve seen a significant change in tone in the last few weeks, not because there is a sudden deep care, frankly, for Palestinian civilian casualties on their own merits, but because there is a sense that there is a political crisis here developing for the Biden administration, that many people are saying, you know, “We’re just going to sit out the next election. We have lost faith in this White House, in this administration.” So, I think that does have an impact.
And let me also say I have found it incredibly moving, as well, to watch these protests. You know, I was up on the Hill for meetings this week and last week and came across, in one office, a sit-in that was happening, where there was a group of Jewish students singing peace songs and holding up signs that said “Save Gaza.” I found that incredibly moving. And I think it also tells Congress and it tells this administration that they are not in line with much of American public opinion. I think it’s a much-needed message.
AMY GOODMAN: Josh Paul, veteran State Department official who worked on arms deals and resigned last month in protest of a push to increase arms sales to Israel amidst the attack on Gaza, thanks so much for joining us.
JOSH PAUL: Thank you very much for having me.
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Boston Interfaith Rally Urges Senators Warren & Markey to Support Gaza Ceasefire
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
November 03, 2023
https://www.democracynow.org/2023/11/3/ ... transcript
At least 23 people were arrested in Boston on Thursday as faith leaders and clergy led a peace rally to demand a ceasefire in Gaza. The interfaith protest targeted Massachusetts Senators Elizabeth Warren and Ed Markey to pressure them to stand up for Palestinian lives. We share footage and voices from the rally.
Transcript
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org. We end today’s show with voices from the streets of Boston, where hundreds of faith leaders and clergy rallied Thursday to demand Senators Elizabeth Warren and Ed Markey support a ceasefire.
PROTESTER 1: Our elected officials must act. They need to hear from us. We are going to meet with them today. We’re going to send a delegation of faith leaders to bring our letters, our prayers. We are grounded in faith, in many faiths, in many spiritual traditions. We have so many people in our bones. We have the moral courage that our elected officials do not have. And we will keep acting until they have it.
And now we’ll hear from Shir Lovett-Graff, a Jewish community and spiritual leader.
SHIR LOVETT-GRAFF: My grief, our grief, is used by the Israeli military, funded by the United States, to enact violence on thousands of Palestinians every day. How can we navigate this grief when it is used to fuel rhetoric that is Islamophobic, racist and antisemitic?
PROTESTER 2: We’re going to begin walking. We’ll follow the banner that says “ceasefire.” And we’ll be praying with our feet.
PROTESTERS: Ceasefire now! Ceasefire now! Ceasefire now! Ceasefire now!
NAKIYA HUSSAIN: My name is Nakiya Hussain [phon.]. We’re watching a genocide unfold. I think that the fact our tax dollars are going to pay for this is horrifying. I want change. I want us to see humanity and care about all lives.
PROTESTERS: Hey, Warren, what do you say? We demand a ceasefire today! Hey, Warren, what do you say? We demand a ceasefire today!
ELSA: My name is Elsa. I’m the daughter of Holocaust refugees. And I’m here because it’s outrageous to me the Israeli government is committing genocide in the name of people like my parents. And I work with Jewish Voice for Peace. We demand a ceasefire now, before even more innocent lives get lost.
JILL: I’m Jill. I’m active in Jewish Voice for Peace. I am here to demand Senator Warren declare a ceasefire and to stand up for justice. She usually does stand up for justice in different kinds of ways. For some reason, she just can’t seem to stand up for Palestinian lives. They are bombing everything — churches, hospitals, roads. There’s no place to go. So we are demanding Warren to do the right thing.
PROTESTERS: When do we want it? Now! What do we want? Ceasefire! When do we want it? Now! If we don’t get it? Shut it down!
RAMI: My name is Rami. I am here today marching because I think we need to have a ceasefire. I think it’s really important that the world see that Jewish community believes in a ceasefire and thinks that what Israel is doing right now is wrong, and that the Jewish community is not a monolith, and there isn’t one uniform perspective standing with Israel on this one.
PROTESTERS: Hey, Markey, what do you say? We demand a ceasefire today! Hey, Markey, what do you say? We demand a ceasefire today!
LEORA: My name is Leora. I am a rabbi in Jamaica Plain. Anyone who’s here today might be risking things to be here, relationships or employment. And I’m so proud to be here, across many kinds of difference and united in our call for a ceasefire now. We mourn for all of the dead, and we fight for all of the living.
MOHANAD MOSSALAM: Even refugee camps and hospitals are not safe.
My name is Mohanad Mossalam. I am a khatib here in Massachusetts, in Malden. If ceasefire is not now, when will it be? Are they waiting for the entire population of Gaza to be completely wiped out? Are they waiting for 10 more thousand, 20 more thousand people dying before they call for ceasefire? Enough is enough.
PROTESTERS: I do not come here alone. I carry my people in my bones.
PROTESTER 3: So, we’re here at the office of Senator Warren. We’re a group of faith leaders across the spectrum of the world’s religions, demanding a ceasefire in Gaza right now. Children are dying. That blood is on our hands if we stand silent. And we can be silent no longer.
PROTESTER 4: We’re so glad you’re here, and we’re so grateful for those inside.
LEORA: Inside, a number of people are occupying the lobby of the federal building. They will be there until the senators call for a ceasefire or until they are escorted out.
PROTESTER 5: I’m now very glad to introduce Boston City Councilor Tania Fernandes Anderson, who introduced the ceasefire resolution to Boston City Council.
TANIA FERNANDES ANDERSON: Peace and love to everyone. As-salamu alaykum. Shalom. And peace in every language. Paz sea contigo. I am here to simply repeat and echo your heartfelt sentiments and your fight and your tears and all of your sacrifice and your bravery for being here, and for every day that you’ve sacrificed, for every night that you’ve looked through social media, the tears that you’ve shed, the prayers that you’ve put out into the universe.
PROTESTER 6: They’re arresting people now.
PROTESTERS: Ceasefire now! Ceasefire now! Ceasefire now! Ceasefire now! Ceasefire now!
REV. REDEEM ROBINSON: Reverend Redeem Robinson. What’s happening right now is a grave injustice. We have faith leaders here who come to pray and demand that Senator Warren calls for a ceasefire, and people are being arrested? This isn’t right. This isn’t right at all. We are calling on Senator Warren to call for a ceasefire. She has a moral duty as a Christian woman to call for a ceasefire. She got faith leaders here at her office being arrested. This is a shame.
PROTESTERS: Ceasefire now! Ceasefire now!
HILARY RANTISI: We have been grieving, grieving the killing of our people, the grieving — grieving our fragmentation, the separation of our people into different enclaves, into different areas — West Bank, Gaza, East Jerusalem.
My name is Hilary Rantisi. So, when you ask a Palestinian where they’re from, they will tell you where they’re from, from before 1948. My family is from — both from Lydda and from Gaza. I was born in Jerusalem, and I grew up in Ramallah. So, as a Palestinian, I have a West Bank ID that only allows me to travel to Ramallah, to be in the West Bank. I can’t go to Jerusalem, where I was born. I can’t go to Gaza, where my grandmother is from. And I can’t go to Lydda, where my father was born and his father was born. But, for me, I am from all these places, and you can’t separate Gaza from me, you can’t separate Jerusalem from me, you can’t separate Lydda from me. So I’m here as a Palestinian recognizing the pain and all the history that all of my family and my ancestors have borne for all these years.
PROTESTERS: Let Gaza live. Let Gaza live. Let Gaza live. Let Gaza live. Let Gaza live. Let Gaza live. Let Gaza live. Let Gaza live. Let Gaza live. Let Gaza live.
AMY GOODMAN: Voices from protest in Boston last night calling for a ceasefire in Gaza. At least 23 people were arrested. This comes as 13 Democratic senators call for short-term cessation of hostilities in Gaza.