November 16, 2023
Israel Orders Palestinians to Flee Parts of Southern Gaza, Continues Attacks on Hospitals
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
November 16, 2023
Dozens of Palestinians have been killed in a 41st consecutive day of unrelenting attacks by Israel’s military on the Gaza Strip. Overnight, Israel’s Air Force dropped leaflets over parts of the southern city of Khan Younis ordering people to leave their homes and shelters “for their own safety.” Many are being expelled for a second time, after Israel last month ordered more than a million Palestinians to leave their homes in northern Gaza.
On Wednesday, Israeli authorities allowed the first shipment of fuel into the Gaza Strip since early October. The U.N.'s agency for Palestinian refugees, UNRWA, says just over 6,000 gallons of fuel — half a tanker truck's worth — was allowed to cross from Egypt. That’s just 9% of what UNRWA says is needed daily to sustain life-saving activities. Israel is not allowing the fuel to be used in hospitals or to power water and sewage pumps.
The U.N.'s human rights chief, Volker Türk, said outbreaks of disease and hunger in Gaza now appear “inevitable.” His remarks came amid a worsening humanitarian catastrophe at Gaza's largest hospital, the Al-Shifa medical complex, which is being occupied by Israel’s army. Thousands of patients, medical workers and displaced Palestinians remain trapped inside the hospital and unable to leave. Medical workers report Israeli attacks have severely damaged Al-Shifa’s main surgery building, and about 200 people were reportedly blindfolded by Israeli troops and led away to interrogations. The World Health Organization’s Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus says 26 out of Gaza’s 36 hospitals are now closed due to damage from Israeli strikes or because they have run out of fuel.
Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus: “Israel’s military incursion into Al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza City is totally unacceptable. Hospitals are not battlegrounds.”
Without Citing Evidence, Biden Backs Israel’s Claim That Hamas Used Hospital as Base
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
November 16, 2023
Israel’s military has displayed images of weapons they claim were found inside the hospital, but Hamas has dismissed the photos as propaganda. On Wednesday, the Israel Defense Forces published video showing what they claimed were “Hamas grab bags” of rifles and grenades stashed inside the hospital. Doctors at Al-Shifa have repeatedly denied such claims.
President Biden has repeated Israeli claims about Hamas using hospitals as military bases. Biden spoke to reporters from California Wednesday evening after wrapping the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation summit in San Francisco.
President Joe Biden: “You have a circumstance where the first war crime is being committed by Hamas by having their headquarters, their military hidden under a hospital. And that’s a fact. That’s what’s happened.”
Biden provided no evidence for the claim.
Biden Calls Xi Jinping a “Dictator” After APEC Meeting
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
November 16, 2023
President Biden’s remarks came after a meeting with Chinese President Xi Jinping at the APEC summit. The pair emerged with several agreements, including one to reestablish military communications and one curbing the Chinese export of chemicals used for the production of fentanyl. On Wednesday evening, Xi Jinping mingled with leaders of corporate America, including Elon Musk and Apple CEO Tim Cook, at a lavish reception. Hours after their meeting, Biden ratcheted up tensions with China when he called President Xi a “dictator.”
President Joe Biden: “I mean he’s a dictator in the sense that he is a guy who runs a country that is a communist country that’s based on a form of government totally different than ours. Anyway.”
Earlier today, Beijing responded to Biden’s remarks, calling them “irresponsible political manipulation.”
U.N. Security Council Passes Resolution Calling for “Humanitarian Pauses” in Gaza
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
November 16, 2023
The United Nations Security Council has passed a resolution calling for “urgent and extended humanitarian pauses and corridors throughout the Gaza Strip.” The measure was approved by a 12-0 vote after the United States, United Kingdom and Russia abstained. Four prior attempts by the Security Council to pass resolutions calling for ceasefires or so-called humanitarian pauses had failed.
Protesters Take Over Strategic Sites in D.C., Los Angeles, Oakland to Call for End to Gaza Assault
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
November 16, 2023
Daily protests against Israel’s attack on Gaza continue. In Washington, D.C., human rights activists gathered in front of the White House for a vigil calling on President Biden to back an immediate ceasefire. Body bags were laid out on the ground to represent the more than 11,500 Palestinians killed by the U.S.-backed Israeli assault.
Later in the evening, activists blocked the entrance of the Democratic National Committee’s headquarters before police violently removed them. Lawmakers, including House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries, were gathered for a campaign event. This is Eva Borgwardt of the Jewish peace group IfNotNow.
Eva Borgwardt: “We’re outside the Democratic Party headquarters because this party claims to be on the side of life and peace and equality, and we’re saying that we want them to live up to their values and oppose this horrific war and call for a ceasefire now. And we’re being responded to by the police shoving antiwar activists down the stairs, shoving peaceful protesters back with their bikes. And because our party, our party that 80% of us want a ceasefire, would rather beat up protesters than” —
Chuck Modi: “Hold on. To be continued. One second. One second. One second.”
The interview was interrupted when police resumed beating protesters, spraying them with chemical agents and arresting them.
In Los Angeles, over 1,000 American Jews and others held an emergency sit-in on one of Hollywood’s busiest streets to demand an immediate ceasefire. Earlier this week, over 700 Jewish activists and their allies shut down Oakland’s federal building. Hundreds of people were arrested in the action.
Majority of National Book Award Finalists Call for Ceasefire During Prize Ceremony
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
November 16, 2023
At the prestigious National Book Awards ceremony in New York last night, 20 of the 25 nominated authors made a collective statement on stage calling for a ceasefire. This is author Aaliyah Bilal.
Aaliyah Bilal: “On behalf of the finalists, we oppose the ongoing bombardment of Gaza and call for a humanitarian ceasefire to address the urgent humanitarian needs of Palestinian civilians, particularly children. We oppose antisemitism and anti-Palestinian sentiment and Islamophobia equally, accepting the human dignity of all parties, knowing that further bloodshed does nothing to secure lasting peace.”
One of the event’s sponsors, Zibby Media, withdrew its support ahead of the prize ceremony, after learning of the authors’ plan to speak out against the war.
Meanwhile, Black Christian faith leaders have been meeting with White House officials and members of the Congressional Black Caucus to call for an end to the violence. Last week, over 900 Black faith leaders representing churches across the U.S. took out a full-page ad in The New York Times to call for a ceasefire and a commitment to a meaningful peace process.
24 House Lawmakers Call for Gaza Ceasefire, Citing Violation of Children’s Rights
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
November 16, 2023
Twenty-four members of the House of Representatives have signed a joint letter calling on President Biden to press for a bilateral ceasefire in Gaza, on the basis of grave violations of children’s rights. The letter was authored by Democratic Congressmembers Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York, Mark Pocan of Wisconsin and Betty McCollum of Minnesota. This comes as the powerful lobby group AIPAC, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, steps up its support for primary challengers to lawmakers who’ve voiced support for a ceasefire. Slate magazine reports AIPAC is expected to spend $100 million in Democratic primaries backing opponents of House progressives.
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“Failure to Prevent Genocide”: Biden Sued as U.S. Provides Arms & Support for Israel’s Gaza Assault
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow
November 16, 2023
https://www.democracynow.org/2023/11/16 ... transcript
Transcript
As Israel rejects growing international calls for a ceasefire in Gaza, the Center for Constitutional Rights in the United States is suing President Biden for failing to prevent genocide. The center is seeking an emergency order to block Biden, Secretary of State Antony Blinken and Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin from providing further military funding, arms and diplomatic support to Israel. Katherine Gallagher, a senior attorney at the Center for Constitutional Rights on the case, argues the U.S. is complicit with Israel in the “crime of crimes” by “aiding and abetting genocide” with military aid, advisers and political support despite clear signs of intent to collectively punish the Palestinian population.
AMY GOODMAN: Israel is rejecting a United Nations Security Council call for urgent and extended humanitarian pauses in Gaza as Israel’s bombardment of the besieged enclave continues for a 41st day. The U.N. Security Council passed the resolution by a vote of 12 to 0, with the United States, Britain and Russia abstaining. It’s the first resolution passed by the U.N. Security Council since Israel began its bombardment after the Hamas attack on Israel on October 7th.
This comes as Israel is continuing its military raid on Al-Shifa, the largest hospital in Gaza. Israel has long claimed Hamas placed a major command center underneath the hospital, but Israel has not shared any evidence of this so far. Israel has displayed images of weapons they claim were found inside the hospital, but Hamas has dismissed the photos as propaganda. On Wednesday, the [director]-general of the World Health Organization, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, condemned the raid on Al-Shifa.
TEDROS ADHANOM GHEBREYESUS: Israel’s military incursion into Al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza City is totally unacceptable. Hospitals are not battlegrounds. We’re extremely worried for the safety of staff and patients. Protecting them is paramount. WHO has lost contact with health workers at Al-Shifa Hospital. But one thing is clear: Under international humanitarian law, health facilities, health workers, ambulances and patients must be safeguarded and protected against all acts of war. Not only that, they must be actively protected during military planning.
AMY GOODMAN: As Israel rejects growing international calls for a ceasefire in Gaza, there are mounting efforts to hold Israel and its backers accountable for committing war crimes in Gaza. Here in the United States, the Center for Constitutional Rights has sued President Biden, accusing him of failing to prevent genocide. Today CCR is seeking an emergency order to block Biden, as well as Secretary of State Antony Blinken and Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin, from providing further military funding, arms and diplomatic support to Israel.
We’re joined now by Katherine Gallagher, senior attorney at the Center for Constitutional Rights, one of the lawyers who brought the case.
Katherine, can you lay out the case for us? What are you demanding of the U.S. government, of President Biden?
KATHERINE GALLAGHER: Good morning, Amy.
This case, filed on Monday, was filed on behalf of two Palestinian human rights organizations — Defense for Children International–Palestine, Al-Haq, which is the oldest Palestinian human rights organization, which for the first time in its history is unable to do its work in Gaza because of the conditions — as well as three Palestinians in Gaza and five Palestinian American families, who have members of their families killed, injured and under direct threat right now in Gaza.
We filed this case against President Biden, Secretary of State Blinken and Secretary of State [sic] Austin with two claims. One is that they have absolutely and completely failed in their duty under international law and U.S. law to take all measures possible to prevent the unfolding genocide against the Palestinian population in Gaza. The United States is a signatory to the Genocide Convention. And in recognition of the severity, that this is the crime of crimes, when it requires the specific intent to destroy a group, a national or ethnic group, in whole or in part, that is such a serious crime that states are obligated to take all measures within their control, all measures possible, from the second, from the minute they learn of the possibility of genocide, to stop that. We have not seen the United States do that, despite its considerable influence over Israel in the form of hundreds of billions of dollars in military aid that it’s sent over the decades and billions in the past year. Instead of using that influence to stop the killing, to stop the imposition of a total siege, denying all basic necessities to 2.2 million people in the enclosed space of Gaza, they have rushed weapons. They have given unconditional political support. Up until yesterday, when we saw a Security Council resolution not yet call for a complete ceasefire, the United States had blocked all measures at the international level. So we are bringing the first claim for its failure to prevent the unfolding genocide.
And the second claim is that it’s actually complicit in genocide. We lay out the case that Israel is actually committing genocide at this moment. And we are able to do so, unfortunately — it’s with no pleasure that we say this — at this early moment because of the very clear statements of intent by Prime Minister Netanyahu, by his minister of defense and other senior Israeli officials about their intentions against the entire population in Gaza. They have been clear that they see this, the people, the children of Gaza, as less than human, describing the population as “monsters” or “human animals,” and then taking away all of the basic necessities — food, fuel, water, electricity. We’ve certainly, as you just played, heard what has happened to the healthcare and medical facilities: bombed and invaded. And so, in the face of all of this, the United States, when it has continued to send weapons, to send military advisers, to rush aid and give moral and political support to Israel’s actions, we say it is aiding and abetting genocide.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: And so, Katherine, could you — because it seems that there’s some disagreement or dispute about whether what’s taking place right now is a genocide or ethnic cleansing, even among scholars of genocide, so could you explain the distinction between the two and how it is that the people who you’ve had advising you on this case are convinced that what’s happening right now — not what is to come — what is unfolding right now is a genocide?
KATHERINE GALLAGHER: So, just to first clarify, ethnic cleansing is actually not a crime. Ethnic cleansing is a description that is often used, whether for crimes against humanity, such as extermination, or forcible transfer and deportation. And I want to be very clear: Those, in and of themselves, are serious crimes. The International Criminal Court has jurisdiction over those crimes. And frankly, it should be bringing arrest warrants for those crimes at this moment. So, that is the first point.
As to why we believe it is a genocide, the elements of genocide are that specific intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a group, and then there are underlying acts for genocide. And we think three of the five underlying acts are present in this case: killing, causing serious bodily or mental harm, and creating the conditions of life intended to destroy a population, in whole or in part.
And so, to unpack that a bit, what we have at the front end — and usually specific intent is something that needs to be determined and only able to be concluded after the fact. I worked at the Yugoslav war crimes tribunal on the Srebrenica cases, and I know how difficult even in that case it was to make the conclusion that it was genocide. Here we have those statements up front. And what we have from the Israeli officials is backing up those statements to impose a total siege and deny an entire population the basic necessities of life — the access to, as I said, food, fuel, electricity, which are necessary for hospitals to run, for people to be able to make their food, for water. We are seeing the start of starvation happening.
And, of course, all of that has happened under intense and continual military bombardment of a space that has a blockade and closed borders. And that blockade has been in place for 16 years. And again, I would say that there have been crimes against humanity being committed against the Palestinian population in Gaza at least throughout the entirety of that 16-year blockade.
What we have seen now is the expression of specific intent to destroy that population. And that, with the killings that we have seen — already well over 11,000 people have lost their lives, including over 4,600 children — we see that this is a campaign against the entire population. So, for genocide, when you take that specific intent, as expressed by the senior Israeli officials who have the capacity to carry out those threats and then the actions — and we are seeing that they are carrying out exactly what they promised — then you are able to make the case for genocide.
And I just want to emphasize again that because of the seriousness of this crime of crimes, the duty to prevent kicks in as soon as a country is on notice of a serious risk of genocide. And the United States has been on notice since at least October 9th, when the minister of defense announced the total siege, which was then imposed, if not already on October 7th, when Prime Minister Netanyahu made threats to turn the entire Gaza Strip into rubble and to erase it off the Earth. And so that is why we feel that that duty to prevent, if not already liability for complicity, is present.
And what we need — we don’t need to be quibbling about legal definitions at this moment. What we need is action. We need the president of the United States, the secretary of state and the secretary of defense to do what the vast majority of the world has been calling for for weeks, and that is, stop this killing. Stop the siege on Gaza. Allow the 2.2 million people to live with dignity, to have their rights respected, and to not be subjected to this horror that we have all been witnessing, and trying to do whatever we can to make the most powerful country on Earth have some compassion and comply with the law.
AMY GOODMAN: Katherine Gallagher, we thank you for being with us, senior staff attorney at the Center for Constitutional Rights, which is seeking an emergency order today to block President Biden, as well as Secretary of State Antony Blinken and Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin, from providing further military funding, arms and diplomatic support to Israel.
Coming up, we go to France and Italy to speak with human rights attorneys — rather, Germany and France — to hold Israel and its backers, including the U.S., legally accountable. And we’ll try to reach a human rights attorney in Gaza. Stay with us.
[break]
AMY GOODMAN: “Toyour” by Rasha Nahas and Dina El Wedidi. Rasha Nahas is a Palestinian singer who held a concert Tuesday in Berlin, donating all proceeds to Médecins Sans Frontières, Doctors without Borders.
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Israel Has Enjoyed Decades of Legal Impunity. Could the War on Gaza Finally Change That?
by Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
November 16, 2023
https://www.democracynow.org/2023/11/16 ... transcript
Transcript
We speak with two experts in international criminal law about the long history of Palestinians attempting to seek justice in global institutions and the “very grave crimes” for which Israel is being prosecuted regarding the country’s ongoing assault and siege of Gaza. Chantal Meloni, an international criminal lawyer who represents victims in Palestine before the International Criminal Court, lays out the history of cases brought before the ICC regarding Israel’s siege and collective punishment of Palestinians being denied justice for more than 14 years. “The fact that there was no accountability for the last decades of occupation and crimes related to the occupation has created a sense of impunity,” says Reed Brody, a war crimes prosecutor, who reports this new assault on Gaza has forced ICC chief prosecutor Karim Khan to confront Israel. “Will this be followed up by real action for the first time?”
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh.
As Israel rejects the United Nations Security Council resolution calling for urgent and extended humanitarian pauses in Gaza, we’re continuing to look at growing efforts to hold Israel legally accountable for war crimes in Gaza.
Joining us from Berlin, Germany, is Chantal Meloni. She is an international criminal lawyer, international criminal law professor at the University of Milan in Italy. She’s also senior legal adviser for international crimes accountability with the European Center for Constitutional and Human Rights in Berlin. She also consults with the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights and represents victims in Palestine before the International Criminal Court. She’s the author of the book Is There a Court for Gaza? Her new piece for Justice in Conflict is headlined “The War in Gaza: International Law Is Nothing If It Is Not Applied.”
And with us in France is Reed Brody, longtime human rights attorney, war crimes prosecutor. Brody has been involved in several major war crimes cases, including against Chile’s former dictator Augusto Pinochet, Haiti’s Jean-Claude “Baby Doc” Duvalier and the former Chadian dictator Hissène Habré. He’s author of To Catch a Dictator: The Pursuit and Trial of Hissène Habré. And he’s the son of a Hungarian Holocaust survivor. Reed’s recent piece for The Nation is headlined “Gaza — Where Is the Law?”
Chantal Meloni, let’s begin with you. Where is the law? We are trying to reach a man you and Reed have worked closely with in Gaza, Raji Sourani, who lived in northern Gaza. His home was bombed, now forced to live in Khan Younis. And now parts of Khan Younis have been covered with leaflets saying that those who are there must move further south.
CHANTAL MELONI: Yes, indeed. Well, first of all, thank you very much for having me with you today.
I think that what we have witnessed in the past weeks, it’s literally the commission on each and every international crime that you may find listed under the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court. And I was listening very carefully to what my colleague Katie Gallagher just said before, their very, very important legal action in the U.S. And, of course, as she started to talk about the fact that Gaza is under blockade since 16 years, so I think we need to go back. We need to go back to 2007, and we need to go back to the first efforts that have been done already in 2009 to basically bring these violations and possible grave crimes to the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court. So, let’s just remember that it was already in January 2009 that the Palestinian Authority, so to say, knocked on the door of the International Criminal Court, lodging an Article 15(3), so, in a doc, acceptance of the jurisdiction of the ICC, in order to have these grave crimes that had already been committed during the Operation Cast Lead investigated and possibly prosecuted in The Hague.
And I want to remember, really, the conclusions that already the U.N. fact-finding mission on the Gaza Strip, the so-called Goldstone Report, after the name of Richard Goldstone, the famous South African judge, had reached in 2009, meaning that the closure of the Gaza Strip that had been imposed continuously since 2007 was unlawful, collective punishment of the civilian population of Gaza and a possible crime against humanity. The conclusions were in the sense of the commission of the crime of persecution, a very grave crime against humanity, exactly because there was this disproportionate, collective punishment on an entire population, 2 million people of Gaza, with the declared purpose by the Israeli authorities to try to break their support to Hamas, and therefore diminish, basically, their possibility, apparently, to commit anything that could be harmful for Israel. And already at that time, the fact-finding mission concluded that the series of acts that deprived the Palestinians in Gaza of their basic needs of subsistence, employment, housing, water, as well as, of course, their freedom of movement, amounted to collective punishment and possible crime against humanity.
So, what we have seen after that is a very long and protracted now denial of justice, because while we are talking — it is 14 years later — we are still in a phase where we don’t see any concrete steps in The Hague, at the ICC. The investigation is now formally open since 2021, but we have not seen any warrant of arrest nor any concrete action.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: And, Chantal, could you talk more about this issue of what the — Israel’s claim that they will take actions to make sure that Hamas does not pose a threat to Israel in any form? I just want to read a statement, because, of course, what we hear again and again in light of Hamas’s attack on October 7th is that Israel has the right to self-defense. And I just want to read a statement that U.N. special rapporteur on the Occupied Palestinian Territories, Francesca Albanese, recently made. She says that Israel cannot, quote, “claim the right of self-defense against a threat that emanates from the territory that it occupies, from a territory that is kept under belligerent occupation.”
[Noura Erakat, Palestinian human rights attorney, legal scholar and assistant professor at Rutgers University] What I want to emphasize about Israel’s use of force is, within the framework of jus ad bellum [Jus ad bellum refers to the conditions under which States may resort to war or to the use of armed force in general. The prohibition against the use of force amongst States and the exceptions to it (self-defence and UN authorization for the use of force), set out in the United Nations Charter of 1945, are the core ingredients of jus ad bellum], Israel does not have the right to self-defense against a population that it occupies. It cannot usurp enforcement, law enforcement power from the native population, impose a siege, govern the airspace, govern the seaports, govern the perimeter, govern entrance and exit, govern how much caloric intake Palestinians have — and then shoot missiles onto a besieged population. It cannot do both. This has been established by legal scholars, such as Christine Gray, on the law of self-defense. It is an old trope that was condemned in the 1970s, when Portugal, South Africa and Israel tried to claim the right to self-defense in order to protect its colonial territories. You cannot dominate another people and then use the claim of self-defense in order to protect that domination. Israel is not protecting itself or its citizens. It is protecting its domination. It is protecting its occupation.
-- “It Is Apartheid”: Rights Group B’Tselem on How Israel Advances Jewish Supremacy Over Palestinians, by Amy Goodman
So, if you could explain that and what the distinction is between two things, the fact that it is a territory that is occupied by Israel and, second, that Hamas is, of course, not a state? It is a nonstate actor that is considered by Israel, the U.S., the U.K. to be a terrorist organization. So what law applies in that case?
CHANTAL MELONI: Yes, exactly. It is very important to understand what is the law, the legal framework that applies to this, because Gaza is still part of the Occupied Palestinian Territory, and Israel, regardless of the disengagement — so, the occupation changed its form in the Gaza Strip since 2006, but it didn’t change substance, meaning that Israel is still exercising effective control on the Gaza Strip and its entire population by different means, not anymore with boots on the ground, but rather through controlling its borders, its aerial space, its sea and, of course, also the civilian life. We have to remember that even, you know, the civilian registries in Gaza are still basically kept by the Israeli authorities. And as you know, of course, no one gets in and out of Gaza. Not even the U.N. functionaries, not even international experts comes into Gaza if Israel do not allow this from happening. So this is why not the Palestinians, but also international bodies, the ICRC, the U.N., have considered, and also the International Criminal Court, that Gaza is still occupied territory. This means that Israel bears very specific duties and responsibilities with regard to the civilian population of Gaza. Not only they should not harm them, they should actually protect them. So, what we are witnessing in these weeks, but, honestly, what we have witnessed in particular since 2007 on, it’s a violation, grave violations of international humanitarian law, also taking into account the very strong duty that is placed on Israel as occupying power.
With regard to the specific question you were making, you were asking me about whether Israel can rely or not on self-defense with regard to Gaza and with regard to Hamas — not being, Hamas, a state, but a armed group that is considered to be a terrorist group internationally. So, I don’t think, honestly, that this is the most important legal point to be disentangled. It is a very complex legal point, but it is only — if you want, it is only relevant if we want to discuss whether Israel’s reaction to the grave crimes committed by Hamas on the 7th of October is an action of aggression or not. The point is that regardless of what we think in this regard — and I personally think that what Francesca Albanese, the U.N. special rapporteur, is arguing is absolutely reasonable and can be the line to be followed. But regardless of whether we agree with her and with other scholars on this point, the issue is that the response — so, what Israel is doing after the 7th of October in Gaza — is in grave violations of international humanitarian law, meaning the law, the rules that regulate war, the armed conflict. And so, this is, for me, the most important point to make. Regardless of the legitimacy or not of the intervention, we are witness these very grave crimes that can be analyzed under the lenses of war crimes, of crimes against humanity or, as we heard from Katie Gallagher and the CCR, genocide.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Reed Brody, I’d like to bring you into the conversation. You wrote this piece for The Nation called “Gaza — Where Is the Law?” If you could lay out the argument you make in that piece and the background that you give about the role, in particular, of the International Criminal Court in the past in prosecuting, or not prosecuting, crimes that Israel was accused of?
REED BRODY: Sure. I mean, as Chantal was saying, every attempt by Palestinians, by Raji and others, to use the International Criminal Court and other institutions of international justice to hold Israeli officials legally accountable has been sidelined or delegitimized as lawfare. I mean, as Chantal has said, the ICC really subjected the Palestinian complaints to this obstacle course over 15 years, to the point that in all of that time there has been no — no charges have ever been brought. And this includes the things that — I mean, the decades of Israeli occupation, the collective punishment, the apartheid, the war crimes that were — the illegal settlements. Settlements are illegal under international law, to bring your people into an occupied territory.
And they have been given the “go slow” treatment. First it was the question of whether they were a state. The first prosecutor kicked the ball — spent three years looking at it and kicked the ball down the road. Fatou Bensouda, the second prosecutor, spent five years conducting a preliminary examination before assuring that there were grounds to believe that both Israel and Palestinians had committed crimes, including the settlements, including war crimes, and then she left it to the current prosecutor, Karim Khan. When the invasion — when the Russian— compare this to the Russian— so, 15 years of no action. You compare this to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Right after the Russian invasion, as the war crimes started to mount, the International Criminal Court and most of the Western justice systems did what they were supposed to do. Immediately Karim Khan went to Ukraine, talked about it as a crime scene, raised an enormous amount of money for the ICC’s investigation, and has already, in fact, issued an arrest warrant against Vladimir Putin for the transfer of Ukrainian children. Compare that then to Palestine, where none of this has happened.
Now, we did see — and I think this is important — last week, the prosecutor, Karim Khan, who has been, you know, criticized for not doing anything, for not moving, went finally to the Rafah crossing. He followed it up with a very powerful speech from Cairo in which he spoke about the crimes that were — or, he spoke about the allegations on both sides. He spoke very bluntly, in a way, to the Israeli authorities. He reminded them that the conduct of the conflict has to respect the laws of war, the distinction between civilian population and military objects, proportionality, precaution. I think, as we can talk about — I mean, I think these are not being honored. But it was very clear to Israel that mosques, that churches, that houses, that hospitals have a protected status, and that it is the — that the burden is on the, as he put it, those who fire the gun or the rocket or the missile to show that they’ve lost their protective status.
Will this be followed up by real action for the first time? I mean, as many people have pointed out, the fact that there was no accountability for the last decades of occupation and crimes related to the occupation has created a sense of impunity. Is that sense of — you know, are we going to finally deal with that sense of impunity?
AMY GOODMAN: On Wednesday, Israel’s Deputy U.N. Ambassador Jonathan Miller claimed Israel always adheres to international law. This is what he said.
JONATHAN MILLER: Hamas is solely responsibility for the humanitarian situation in Gaza, and they weaponized it to prevent Israel from defending itself. Israel does not need a resolution to remind us to adhere to international law. Israel always adheres to international law.
AMY GOODMAN: So, that’s Israel’s Deputy U.N. Ambassador Jonathan Miller. Reed, if you could respond to that and also talk about investigation of Hamas for war crimes?
REED BRODY: Sure. I mean, you know, the core principles, as everyone should know, regarding the laws of war is the protection of civilians. Military operations can’t be directed at civilians. And that’s expressed through the principle of distinction. You have to make a distinction between civilian objects and military objects. Even — and this is, you know, like in the hospital case — even where you say that there is a military objective there, the leaders still have to act with proportionality. They cannot just go and, you know, attack civilians in a way that is disproportionate. And one can argue about what “disproportionate” means. Under the law, it’s where the — that an action is expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, that is excessive in relation to the military advantage that’s anticipated. It’s very hard to see, as we look at this conflict today, the 10,000 people who have been killed, 4,600 children, how these things are considered proportionate. I think Israel has a heavy burden to bear here to show in any way that these actions fit within the laws of the war.
You brought up Hamas’s crimes. And I think we all believe that Hamas on October 7th committed very serious war crimes, probably crimes against humanity. These do not — just as the decades of crimes under Israeli occupation do not justify Hamas committing crimes against civilians, committing war crimes, those crimes by Hamas cannot in any way justify further war crimes and many of the actions that are being taken — undertaken by the Israeli armed forces today.
AMY GOODMAN: And finally, Reed, you are the son of a Holocaust survivor, a Hungarian forced laborer. Can you talk about what this means to you? You’re in France. You live in Barcelona, Spain. The issue of increased antisemitism and then also the equation of the criticizing of the Israeli state with antisemitism?
REED BRODY: Well, those are a lot of questions to unpack. It’s very difficult — I mean, I was with Chantal, actually, in Germany last week, where it’s very, very difficult to criticize the conduct of Israel, where the line is very thin. And as somebody who’s spent half my life in Europe, I’m also aware of how prevalent antisemitism is and how much and how careful we have to be not to allow criticisms of Israel to spill over antisemitism, and to be ruthless when we hear antisemitism.
You know, I come to my positions as an international lawyer, as a Jew, as a son of a Holocaust survivor. I don’t think that these things can be conducted in my name, certainly. Obviously, in America and around the world, there are many Jews who have stood up and talked about “Not in our name.” In Europe, it’s quite — I have to say, in Spain, where I live, there are a lot fewer, and it’s quite a big deal. But next week there’s a rally in Paris by Jews who are against what Israel is doing.
I think more and more this is becoming — I mean, this is a question of humanity. One Holocaust does not justify another. This is an — what happened to my father’s generation, to my father, to members of my family was a genocide. But just like war crimes don’t justify other war crimes, there’s an asymmetrism between what happened with the Jews and what is happening today. And I don’t think we can invoke the Holocaust, we can invoke what happened to our parents, to allow Israel to commit war crimes today.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: And, Chantal, finally, we just have one minute, but if you could say whether the fact that Hamas has taken over 200 hostages, 240 Israeli hostages, into Gaza — what effect that has, what impact, whether there’s any allowance or what international law says can be done in the event of a hostage-taking on this scale in terms of the return of the hostages?
CHANTAL MELONI: I mean, if I understand correctly your question, of course, also what Hamas did with regard to the hostage-taking from Israel, Israeli civilians, can amount to war crimes, is a violation of the rules of international humanitarian law. And it will follow — it follows, potentially, under the jurisdiction of the [inaudible] what we really [inaudible]. And I think we will see an acceleration in the investigations for the International Criminal [inaudible] are so dramatic. And I’m sure that the prosecutor will analyze 360 degrees the responsibilities, meaning both the Israeli authorities and the Palestinian armed groups. But what we really urgently need is accountability and to break this circle of impunity, which fosters violence and has been already for too long denounced in this way as one of the triggers of the violence and brutality that we are witnessing today.
AMY GOODMAN: Chantal Meloni, we want to thank you so much for being with us, international criminal lawyer, consulted with the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights and represents victims in Palestine before the International Criminal Court, and Reed Brody, human rights attorney and war crimes prosecutor, son of a Hungarian Holocaust survivor.
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Niece of Israeli PM Netanyahu Backs Ceasefire in Gaza, Says Military Solutions Will Not Bring Peace
by Amy Goodman
November 16, 2023
https://www.democracynow.org/2023/11/16 ... transcript
Transcript
Ruth Ben-Artzi, the niece of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, joins Democracy Now! to call for the Netanyahu government to focus efforts on releasing Israeli hostages and to stop the bombing. A professor of political science at Providence College, Ben-Artzi recently joined prominent Rhode Island rabbis, Jewish leaders and Israelis demanding a ceasefire in Gaza. “A ceasefire is really the only way that any solution can be achieved,” says Ben-Artzi, who explains why military actions will never resolve this conflict and that “finding a political solution … is really the only way that the roughly 7 million Jews and 7 million Palestinians who live between the river and the sea will ever be able to find peace.”
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org. I’m Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh.
We spend the rest of the hour with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s niece, a Providence College political science professor and Middle East expert. She’s the niece of Netanyahu’s wife, Sara Netanyahu. This month she was one of the signatories to a letter from Jewish and Israeli residents of Rhode Island that asks the state’s federal delegation to support ceasefire in Gaza.
In March, Ruth Ben-Artzi spoke out about distancing herself from all contact with the prime minister’s family. When asked by the Israeli newspaper Haaretz why she chose to speak out, she said, quote, “The answer is that I am ashamed, sad and angry. Ashamed that my relatives have no shame. That they are in a position of power that promotes and encourages violence, racism, nationalism and fascism. These are not the Jewish values I absorbed and to which I feel connected. Israel could remain a country in which Jews find a safe and free haven of equality and partnership with all the population groups within the state’s borders.”
Well, professor Ruth Ben-Artzi joins us now, again, a Providence College political science professor and Middle East expert. She’s an Israeli and U.S. citizen.
We welcome you to Democracy Now! Thank you so much for being with us. Your voice has so much power because you are the prime minister’s niece. Can you speak directly to him, to the people of Palestine and Israel and the world about what you want to see happen right now, Ruth Ben-Artzi?
RUTH BEN-ARTZI: So, I, first of all, speak as an Israeli citizen, as an American citizen, as a person who is observing everything that is happening, with my experience having grown up in Israel, and also as a political scientist who studies and researches these issues for many, many years now. From all of those different perspectives, I come to this realization, or that we came to this decision that a ceasefire is really the only way that any solution can ever be achieved.
I think that any — the continued violence that begets violence that begets violence is only going to bring us further away from a solution to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. And, you know, it’s really important to remember that we’ve been hearing also from policymakers, from American policymakers and even from Israeli policymakers, military experts, that there’s no military solution for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. And if there’s no military solution to the conflict, there is no military way to eradicate Hamas, as well. The more harm that we’re inflicting, the more violence that is occurring, whatever anybody wants to — as a backdrop to either justify it or to explain it, does not make sense for the future. It only brings us further away from finding that solution, from being able to move toward that political solution.
And it’s clear that the day that this war is over is going to be the day that a political solution is going to have to start to be implemented. The occupation in the West Bank, the siege in Gaza that happened until October 7th, all of these kind of — what we typically call status quo, what we traditionally call status quo, but it’s not really status quo because things are changing. People are — the population is changing. The demographics are changing. The infrastructure is changing over all of these years of occupation. That can’t continue. The management of the conflict that has been the policy of the Israeli government at least since 2009 isn’t — it was never going to work. And it has no long-term prospects. The ceasefire is the only — we’re seeing the number of innocent civilians who are caught in the crossfires, the number of those who are victims of this war grow every single minute. And that is in addition to the humanitarian — to all the humanitarian concerns that — and the experts that you had on the show before me, the legal concerns, in addition to that, that also bring us further away from being able to implement the kinds of policies that we need to implement the day after the war.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: And, Professor Ben-Artzi, you’ve also, like many, of course, expressed concern about the well-being of the hostages who are in Gaza still, about 240 of them. If you could talk about how you think a ceasefire might make it possible for their safe return? I mean, it was just reported that Israel and Hamas appear close to an agreement whereby 50 women and children, Israeli civilians, would be released in return for 50 Palestinian women and children prisoners being freed. So, if you could talk about the impact a ceasefire may have on the release of the Israeli civilian hostages in Gaza?
RUTH BEN-ARTZI: Right. So, in Jewish tradition, we have a tradition that is called pidyon shvuyim, which means that the release of the hostages comes first and at all costs. And that is to save lives. The bombing of Gaza — those hostages are in Gaza. When Gaza is being bombed, when we are — when we don’t know where those hostages are, it puts them in danger, too. There is going to be a day, or already, there’s a judgment for Hamas and for those who have inflicted the horrible violence on Israel on October 7th. But right now the focus has to be the release of those hostages. And the bombing, that is clearly not very specifically targeted and is putting those hostages in harm’s way, is only exacerbating the situation and putting the — I think, is putting the — and not just myself, but including the Rhode Islanders who signed this letter. I’ve also joined hundreds of political scientists who signed a letter to demand immediate ceasefire, for some of those same strategic reasons, humanitarian reasons, and also for what is for me in the front of my mind, the release of the hostages.
We buried today a peace activist who was murdered on October 7th, who was — who had spent decades in activism trying to help to bring a solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and continuing that tradition. There’s Israelis who are continuing that tradition. There’s Israelis in Israel now and abroad. There’s organizations, both Palestinian and Jewish organizations, that are working towards that solution, to find a peaceful solution.
And to bring the hostages back, we have to have those negotiations. And if the negotiations have to — they have to happen with the group, with the terrorist group, that is holding those hostages. There is no other way. There is no other — there’s no other solution for this. Get the hostages out. This is what the families of the hostages are demanding. And then we can continue the political work of rehabilitating Gaza, removing Hamas from power, and finding a political solution, which is really the only way that the roughly 7 million Jews and 7 million Palestinians who live between the river and the sea will ever be able to find peace.
AMY GOODMAN: Professor Ben-Artzi, we just have 30 seconds, but as the niece of the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, have the two senators from Rhode Island spoken to you, Jack Reed and Sheldon Whitehouse, or Seth Magaziner and Gabe Amo, the congressmembers?
RUTH BEN-ARTZI: As Rhode Islanders, we speak to our delegation all the time. Our group that signed this letter and that sent them this letter spoke to our delegation. We’re in contact all the time. We have various connections in our small state. And I think that we have a listening ear to all the different voices —
AMY GOODMAN: Well —
RUTH BEN-ARTZI: — that are part —
AMY GOODMAN: — we have to leave it there. We thank you so much, Providence College political science professor Ruth Ben-Artzi, niece of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. I’m Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh.