by Confidential Witness
July 28, 1994
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CW having been first duly sworn by Robert M. Jakupciak, a Notary Public within and for the state of Virginia was examined and testified as follows:
Cong. Burton: Okay. Why don't you read that into the record.
CW (Rereading the statement given to Dan Burton as follows:)
Involving the statement about the gun in Vince Foster's hand, I made it very clear that the palms of his hands were facing up and at his sides. The agents investigating stated the gun was hooked on his thumb and partially obscured by the back of his hand. Based on their explanation of how the gun was being held, I conceded that all was visible -that if all that was visible was the trigger guard on his thumb and the dense foliage that I could have missed seeing it. I again stated that I saw both of the man's palms, but did not count his fingers. After having seen the photo of the hand and the gun I'm sure the hand had been moved because the palms were face up when I saw Mr. Foster's body.
Cong. Burton: Okay. Very good. Do you want to ask questions or do you want me to start.
Cong. Mica: You can start.
Cong. Burton: Now, one of the things that Mr. Fiske said in his report was that you saw the body from the berm but it does not tell how close you were to the body. Would you tell us how close you were to the body and how close you got to his face, his hand and everything else?
CW: I stood directly over the top of his head at the head of the berm. My right foot, I'm sure that it was my right foot, was somewhere between 24 to 30 inches from the top of his head. No closer. At that point, leaning over with my left foot extended behind me I look directly down into his eyes from about 3 to 4 foot above him. Directly above him looking straight down the body. The man's head was facing straight up. If it was tilted it was tilted very slightly because I looked into both eyes. I was questioned numerous times by the agents about are you sure the head wasn't tilted and I kept telling, no, I looked straight down into both eyes. Do you want me to go on and explain what I saw?
Cong. Burton: Yeah. Go ahead. Tell us what you saw.
CW: I saw blood traces on his nose and around his lips. There was not streams of blood on the side of his face. There was not trickles of blood as indicated in the Foster report. I was looking straight down into the man's face and saw the blood. That's when I said to myself, hey, did somebody shoot this man? I didn't see any signs of a gunshot on his shirt or clothes. I looked to see if he had anything in his hands, and that is when I saw hand both palms up.
Cong. Mica: Was there a gun in the hands?
CW: There was no gun in his hand. His- both palms were up, thumbs out to the side.
Cong. Mica: You did not see a gun?
CW: I did not see a gun next to the body.
Cong. Mica: Or, you don't recall a gun any place close to him?
CW: The foliage around him was dense, very dense, because I was standing approximately 20 feet from him relieving myself.
Cong. Mica: Did you touch the body? Or did you shake him?
CW: Oh, God no, I wouldn't touch him for no amount. I mean, no way would I disturb any evidence, period.
Cong. Burton: What you are saying is that you were 20 feet from the body relieving yourself?
CW: When I was relieving myself and caught a glimpse of something that I thought initially was trash and that's how dense the foliage was.
Cong. Burton: I want you to look at this picture because you say you saw no gun in the hands.
CW: I also, when I saw nothing in his hands, I leaned to both sides of his head and to the back of his head to see if he had been hit in the head and saw nothing visible.
Cong. Mica: Did you look at his hand again?
CW: I did not look back at his hands again because I clearly saw his hands were empty and he had no signs that he had, was defending himself, or something. You know, you don't know. You see somebody laying there dead you go what happened here, did somebody shoot him? No signs of it. Was he in a fight? Was he hit in the head?
Cong. Burton: Now, you said- what did you see besides the body?
CW: There was a wine cooler bottle I would say 24 or 30 inches to the right, between his shoulder and his elbow, laying on the berm held up by some twigs, not on the berm but on the down-side of the hill being held up by some twigs because it's a very steep grade.
Cong. Burton: Was it sitting straight up or just laying on its side?
CW: Laying sideways, still probably 1/4 of its contents in the bottle.
Cong. Burton: Did you see anything that looked like glasses anywhere?
CW: No, I didn't. From what I read in the report the glasses were at the bottom of the hill.
Cong. Burton: Take a look.
CW: That looks like glasses right there.
Cong. Rohrabacher: Did you see that?
CW: No. I did not.
Cong. Mica: Did you see- you said the palms were out?
CW: It looks like it could be but it looks like a twig more
Cong. Mica: You don't remember seeing that?
CW: No. I did not see- the man's hands were against his leg.
Cong. Mica: This shows foliage to the left of the hand and underneath the hand. Is this similar to the dense foliage that was there?
CW: It was very very dense and that's how dense it was. You could start to see how dense it was. Did you see the woods back there?
Cong. Burton: Can we stop one minute?
CW: Yes, Sir.
Cong. Burton: Can you stop for a second? I don't want to go off record. I just want to stop for a minute because I want him to go unload your 38 and bring it in here for a minute.
CW: It is not a 38, its a 22.
Cong. Burton: Can you unload your 22 and bring it here and let me take a look at it. I want to unload it.
CW: I wouldn't bring it in otherwise.
Cong. Burton: Okay. The reason I'm asking him to do that, I want to show you the gun in the position of the hand and if the palms were up what it would look like. I wanted you to see that.
Cong. Mica: You would have to see the gun.
Cong. Burton: Well, the gun- you can see here the thumb is through the trigger guard like that. You can see it. I'm going to put my thumb through it and if the palms were up I want you to see how the gun would look. It's empty?
CW: It's empty.
Cong. Burton: Okay. Let's take a quick look here. Now, this is the way it is, see?
CW: Exactly like that.
Cong. Burton: Do you see that? Do you see this? Take a good look, I want you to see. You see the picture? You see how I got my thumb in there?
Cong. Mica: and you think it's imposs-
Cong. Burton: No. Wait a minute. You see this? If the palm is up what do you have?
CW: All right. The way he explained it to me it was like and I would have missed the gun with the foliage. The reason that I conceded to the men based on what they were telling me - this is not what they told me because the man stood almost exactly where you are standing, one of the agents, and said just like this, but all you would have seen, and he repeated would have seen just the trigger guard and the rest of the gun would have been obscured.
Cong. Mica: You didn't touch the body at all?
Cong. Rohrabacher: Hold on. Let's make this point very clear. The FBI when they were talking to you and when they kept going on this question referred to the palm being up and the gun being underneath the palm?
CW: He demonstrated with his hand like this with his palm up.
Cong. Rohrabacher: So the question- when they claim that you had in some way conceded that well, maybe perhaps you didn't see it if indeed it was below the palm that was based on the description by the FBI that the palm was up and that the gun was underneath the back of the hand?
Cong. Burton: But, it's not possible. Look at this.
Cong. Rohrabacher: No. That's not what this picture shows.
CW: Exactly.
Cong. Burton: But if the thumb is in there, look at this. You can't-
Cong. Rohrabacher: The more important part is that the FBI was describing something to him that was not-
CW: Exactly right.
Cong. Rohrabacher: Was not the hand, where the hand was.
CW: I'm looking for the--
Cong. Burton: Let's talk one at a time. What did you say?
CW: The statement said that the CW insisted that the man's or believe the man's palms were up. In this it states that.
Cong. Rohrabacher: Right.
CW: He never- that's the only thing, the two things that I think the FBI done wrong, was they wouldn't show me the pictures and led me to believe that the hands were up and the gun was concealed on the other side.
Cong. Burton; But in the report they say you believe that the palms were up but you say there is no doubt?
CW: I never said - I said I believe it. I mean I know it.
Cong. Rohrabacher: Okay.
CW: And he said CW believes it and that's as straight as they can be.
Cong. Mica: But you never indicated-
CW: Otherwise. Those palms were up always.
Cong. Mica: And both palms?
CW: Both palms, neatly at his side and they were just like that.
Cong. Mica: With nothing in them?
CW: Nothing in the hands.
Cong. Rohrabacher: And after you made the concession to the FBI after repeating that you didn't believe there was a gun in the hand, over and over again, when you finally made the concession it was based on a description by the FBI that the gun was found with - the man was found with his palms up and that the gun was underneath his palm?
CW: That all that would have been visible was the trigger guard, would I have missed seeing a gun, with the dense foliage? If that being the case, it's possible I could have missed it.
Cong. Burton: First of all, look -
CW: And that's, I mean that's as honest as I can be.
Cong. Mica: If somebody had moved the hand-
Cong. Burton: If it's like this, I mean there is no way-
CW: If you had dense foliage right here it's very possible I could have missed the gun, if that's the way it was.
Cong. Mica: But someone would had to move the hand to do that?
CW: But the palm was just like that.
Cong. Burton: He said he didn't count all the fingers and that's what they tried to convince him of, that this might have been covered here.
Cong. Rohrabacher: Well, we have two discrepancies here. We have one discrepancy when he says he doesn't- he never saw the gun and the other is that he is absolutely certain that the palms were up. So thus, we have two major discrepancies.
Cong. Mica: Okay. I mean you can see the gun pretty clearly there. You think you would have seen the gun if in fact it was in that position?
CW: I would have, because-
Cong. Mica: You were looking for something?
CW: I was looking to see if the man had been in the process of defending himself.
Cong. Rohrabacher: John, that is- okay that was an important point that was just made. Thus, even if this picture is the accurate description, meaning that- even if this was, which you do not believe is the way the palm was located, you would have definitely been close enough and would have seen the gun if this was the, what actually was?
CW: That's going to be a hard question for me to answer because of one thing.
Cong. Rohrabacher: Okay.
CW: I'm standing at the top of the man's head. This is below him looking up. There was a trained policeman standing at the top of the hill that even when told he had a gun in his hand still did not see it. I cannot not make that statement and say yes, I would have seen it.
Cong. Burton: But the point is the gun is shoved under his leg partially, not you are saying the palms were definitely-
CW: The palms were up.
Cong. Burton: And if the palms were up in that position you would have seen the gun?
CW: I would have seen the gun.
Cong. Mica: So you were standing over his head?
CW: Directly looking down the body.
Cong. Rohrabacher: By the way I don't think this was taken from below. I think it was taken from the side, above and from the side or whatever.
Cong. Burton: Well, you know. I think there was-
CW: That was taken from down the hill.
Cong. Burton: -underexposed and they didn't turn out. And these were taken with Polaroids.
CW: You have got to remember that the man was laying on a hill like this. That gun was right here. So that angle would have had to have been below and back at him.
Cong. Mica: Which way was his head? was his head down the hill or up?
CW: On top of the hill. His head was at the top of the hill
Cong. Mica: So he went down in this, this slope or ravine and shot himself.
Cong. Burton: It's a little slope.
CW: Let me show you. This is an elevation. You have the flat area with the cannon sitting right there. Okay. There is a berm right here like this. There was probably a 6 to 12 inch high berm after years of erosion that at one time would have been much higher. The bank comes down, I would guesstimate 20 feet or better, down- I'm going to have to expand on this. And then there is a ditch here a berm and this is all dense wooded area with a walking path right out here. The man's body was laying approximately like this.
Cong. Burton: So the head was right at the top almost?
CW: Yep. Just below the top of the berm. If I was standing right there the angle would have been just enough that I would not have seen him. It wasn't until I got around here that I saw something down over the edge of the berm.
Cong. Burton: Okay. Now, tell us about the cabin real quickly. You said you knew the guy that owned the cabin years ago?
CW: I knew a retired navy commander who lives in that project. He was going to get me with the owner so I could possibly purchase this. Being in construction-
Cong. Burton: But there is a private road that goes back to the cabin?
CW: There is a private road that goes right back to it from the housing development right next to it.
Cong. Burton: Okay. If somebody came back that road they wouldn't be seen?
CW: They would not be seen, period.
Cong. Burton. How far is that from the cabin?
CW: 150, 175 yards.
Cong. Burton: So they would have walked around that and come right up-
CW: They are dead in the woods all the way, and there is a path that leads right straight through there, a very well worn walking nature trail.
Cong. Rohrabacher: What time did you do this again? Excuse me, I forgot.
CW: It was almost 6 o'clock.
Cong. Rohrabacher: In the afternoon?
CW: Yes.
Cong. Mica: Now, you found the body and you realized he was - you thought he was dead?
CW: Well, there was no doubt he was dead. His eyes were about 2/3 closed and glazed very, very white.
Cong. Mica: Did you yell for help?
CW: Oh. God no. That doesn't bother me.
Cong. Mica: But what did you do?
CW: I immediately went back to my van, went to go to the nearest phone and call the police to tell them that there was a body there.
Cong. Burton: But you didn't call the police?
CW: I went, got in my van, started up the parkway because I was on the parkway, I got up to where the park headquarters are, about 2, 2 1/2 miles, maybe a little further up the road, the right-hand side. There is a little phone sign right there. I pulled in, there was a couple of vehicles on the left, I had never been there before. There is two phones there. I never saw them because I saw the guys there, the phones sat back behind the trees over here on the right side. I saw the guys there. I was looking at them, drove by, still didn't see the phones, looked both ways but apparently drove right by the phones and never saw them, backed up, turned around, started back out, was going to ask them to use the phone, motioned for them to come over. I asked him for a phone. He stated, You know why? And I says, well it's an emergency, I need to use the phone. Can you get me to a phone? Yes, but why? And he says - I think he said it a third time. At that point I went wait a minute fine. Are you familiar with Fort Marcy? Oh, yeah, I know it well. Do you know where the cannons are? Oh, yes, I know it well. Do you know the one up on the hill to the right? Oh, yeah, the next Chain Bridge Road now. Not the one on the left up there, the one on the right way up top. Oh, yeah. I know it well. I says right besides it, down over the bank is a dead man. You call the police and tell them. Oh, sure great. I don't need the headaches that go with possibilities of going to courts and hearings and crap that all I done was come unto a body. That's all. Hey, I done my duty, I'm gone. He went to call the police. I simply drove off and stayed quiet for approximately 6 months.
Cong. Burton: Now, you told some of your colleagues about the body?
CW: Here is the - what happened that night. The next morning I got maybe 5, 6, maybe 7 foremen from the project in my trailer and they were all complaining and bitching about the heat and the traffic There was wrecks all over the place that afternoon and they were all airing their grievances about the trip home. So, finally I said , you guys don't know what grievances are. So I told them what happened. After an hour or two my brother comes over and says, do you know who that was and I went holy Christ. At this point I had probably a hundred men on that job and do you know not one soul- they kept me quiet and I love it.
Cong. Burton: They kept your confidence. Now, you were coming back from Africa, you went to Kenya. Tell them about coming back from Africa and how you decided to call Gordon Liddy.
CW: When I got back from Africa I was reading the London Times was eating that story up and I was sitting in the hotel reading it.
Cong. Burton: This was what month?
CW: This was in April, Yeah, I believe it was in April. April or May. Hon, when was I in Africa?
Mrs. CW: I don't know. I didn't go. You left me home, remember?
Cong. Burton: Okay. Go ahead.
CW: And when- it's when I get back my brother says you heard the story that the New York Times printed about two park rangers have changed their story and stated they had made up the story about the guy in the white van, that they had snuck off down the park to have a drink and discovered the body and to cover themselves they made up this story and at that point I went wait a minute. Who in the world can put that kind of pressure on two career employees to make them tell that kind of garbage? I better cover my hind quarters. So I was thinking about what to do and my brother had been listening a lot to Liddy and I have also respected Liddy for his word. Any man- you know his background. And he has been hammering on the evidence, you know, that was being presented about the Foster case and the doubts.
Cong. Rohrabacher: Had you ever met Liddy before that?
CW: I had never met Mr. Liddy before that. So after some thought I thought that-
Cong. Rohrabacher: Had your brother met Mr. Liddy before that?
CW: No. No one. None of us knew him at all.
Cong. Rohrabacher: Okay.
CW: But having read about him, I decided that would be as good a- what I knew would become public and if there was a threat to me that that possibility of danger would be greatly, greatly reduced simply by the fact that what I know would have been now made official.
Cong. Burton: So you called Liddy because you wanted to get the facts out number one and number two you thought you would be safer if the facts were?
CW: Exactly right.
Cong. Burton: And he would keep your confidence?
CW: Just like you gentlemen and he has kept his word 100% and God knows I expect it.
Cong. Burton: Okay. Do you guys have any other questions?
Cong. Rohrabacher: Did you see any evidence of any other people there that we haven't talked about?
CW: There were two cars in the parking lot. It's a very quiet little park.
Cong. Mica: Were there any people in the cars?
CW: None. This is why I went as far up as I did, before finding a place to relieve myself, because I know the park and I know it well and where the picnic tables, et cetera, are in the park and if there would be someone that would be in the park enjoying it. I checked those three places to- actually the fourth place was the cannon on top where- that's where I stepped over the berm and saw him.
Cong. Burton: Okay. Anything else?
Cong. Rohrabacher: There wasn't any - foliage didn't seem to be- did it seem liked someone dragged him up there?
CW: Now, I did not read anything in this report and this has been stated numerous times. Below this man's feet, all the way down into the bottom of the ditch, approximately ten feet or better, up the berm on the other side, over the hill to the walking trail, everything had been trampled completely flat like the man had walked back and forth at least a dozen times. It was at least maybe 24 or 30 inches wide that everything was trampled completely flat. Every twig, every leaf.
Cong. Burton: Let me get this straight. You are saying that here was a path almost from the bottom of his body down into the bottom, up and over this other hill?
CW: And out onto the walking trail on the other side. As I showed you here, down and out over that hill. It is very, very dense.
Cong. Burton: And it was flattened out?
CW: It was walked completely flat. The agents had known about this and known about this. Nothing in that report. I don't know. Did it disappear or what happened?
Cong. Rohrabacher: Your analysis-
Cong. Burton: Wait a minute. This is very important. You are saying that you told the agents this?
CW: Oh, I told them numerous times.
Cong. Burton: That the ground was trampled from the bottom of his feet all the way down the alley and over the hill?
CW: Completely flat.
Cong. Burton: Like somebody had been walking back and forth there?
CW: He had paced back and forth at least a dozen times. You can't trample down that flat.
Cong. Burton: And they didn't put that in that report?
CW: Nothing in the report that I read. That I have read. If you don't read anything of that nature.
Cong. Rohrabacher: Let me ask you something. Did you happen to get a glimpse on the other side of that?
CW: If someone was on that trail on the other side you would have never seen them. The foliage was that dense.
Cong. Mica: Did you tell them about the trampled-
CW: Absolutely.
Cong. Mica: It doesn't appear in anything-
Cong. Burton: Not once but how many times?
CW: Minimum of three. Once here, and twice at the site with them.
Cong. Burton: Let me finish here. You went out to the site with the FBI and you told them at the site the ground was trampled and how far it went?
Cong. Mica: And you were looking from the top of his head down?
CW: looking straight down from the top.
Cong. Burton: But you said you weren't about to go down the hill?
CW: No, I wouldn't disturb anything like that.
Cong. Rohrabacher: But you could see what looked like a path to his body?
CW: I'm looking straight down the body.
Cong. Mica: Did you see like flies buzzing anywhere besides the body where there might have been -
CW: No.
Cong. Mica: some flesh, or-
CW: No.
Cong. Mica: And no other location except around the mouth and face?
CW: And that one small area in the middle of that stain on his shoulder. But it was, it was not- when I said silver dollar, that was, making sure that I had the area covered. It may have been more like a quarter but it was smaller than a silver dollar.
Cong. Mica: When you came back and turned around, was there anyone around or anyone in the cars you saw?
CW: Still no one in the cars.
Cong. Mica: Did you look at the cars when you came back?
CW: As I walked down the hill, you are coming off and you are parked in the parking lot. You go up on either side of the parking lot to a walking area that's elevated well above the parking, up to a sign with the description of the fort area and what it was all about and the history. As you are walking back down, which I'm walking back down to get to my van, as you are coming down the hill you can see right down into the car and the car is parked either second or third.
Cong. Mica: What kind of car was it?
CW: White Honda or it was a light brown or cream colored Japanese made car on the other end of the parking lot. On the passenger seat of the white Honda was a folded jacket very, very similar in color to suit pants. The FBI tells me I got the wrong car, that was not his. They said the brown one was his.
Cong. Rohrabacher: Say that again.
CW: The FBI said that that was not his car. I thought sure that was his car because the jacket was so similar to the pants he had on.
Cong. Burton: Yeah.
CW: In the passenger floor board was a four-pack wine cooler, two gone.
Cong. Rohrabacher: This was in the car the FBI said did not belong?
CW: Was not belong. And I asked them, how well did you check the other two people that were still in the park when you got there? Oh, there is no doubt, they were just two lovers up there.
Cong. Mica: Now that was one car but you said there was another car?
CW: Two cars.
Cong. Mica: Two cars. Did you look in the other car? One car had the jacket and the wine cooler?
CW: The white Honda. Let me just, so you will- when you come off the GW Parkway, you come up, the parking area is like this and there is a little turn around over here, just like so. Brown or cream colored Nissan, white Honda. I parked right here. Up here is a sign.
CW continues: There is a path that goes right here, with a sign here telling you and there is a path that goes up the hill and around here. There is a good elevation coming up here. Just past me, here at this sign, go into the fort area here. One cannon here and one here and that's where he was.
Cong. Burton: But you are saying in this car here you saw a jacket that looked like the one that matched the pants on the body?
CW: Exactly.
Cong. Burton: And you also said that you saw a wine cooler pack on the floor?
CW: A four-pack wine cooler with two gone. The same color as - it was- it had a light pink like label.
Cong. Burton: Okay. Did you look at the bottle that you saw beside the body?
CW: Exactly like the bottle.
Cong. Burton: But that was not in the report?
CW: Strange thing. When I went back with the agents one of the agents spent about 15 minutes kicking around all through the leaves and everything looking for that wine cooler bottle.
Cong. Burton: But this was nine months later?
CW: Yes.
Cong. Burton: Well---
Cong. Rohrabacher: That's interesting.
CW: I would have thought surely-
Cong. Mica: So you went back to the site with them?
CW: With the two agents.
Cong. Mica: And who else have you talked to?
CW: Mr. Liddy. This gentleman. That's it.
Cong. Mica: And what about- no. But you said you talked to the Fiske investigators?
Cong. Burton: The two FBI.
CW: The two FBI guys.
Cong. MICA: That's all?
CW: That's it.
Cong. Burton: Yeah.
CW: And I went to them because after talking with Mr. Liddy, the FBI was really asking and begging and doing everything they could to get in touch with me. Mr. Liddy said these two of the old Hoover guys, they are not young kids and they're not trying to get a reputation or prove anything. I think they can be trusted. I think you can help an investigation, would you be willing to meet with them, remaining as a confidential witness with their promise to do the same and they have done that absolutely.
Cong. Rohrabacher: What are the names of the two agents?
Cong. Burton: I have got those. I will give them to you.
CW: I prefer you don't have them.
Cong. Burton: We are not going- they are going to testify tomorrow before the committee so their names will be known tomorrow.
CW: Because they did keep their word and to me that's - nobody is any better than their word.
Cong. Burton: CW, let me tell you something. That's very important that they kept their word, but it is also very important that they are accurate in this report and that report does not reflect what you have told us today. The palms were up you say?
CW: Absolutely.
Cong. Mica: How sure are you the palms were up?
CW: As sure as I'm standing right here, I am absolutely and totally unequivocally, the palms were up. I looked at both palms. There was nothing in his hands. I didn't look at one then assume the other. I looked at both of them.
Cong. Burton: Okay. Any other questions?
Cong. Mica: That's pretty definitive.
Cong. Rohrabacher: Did it look like the body had slid from a position higher on the hill down a few feet?
CW: His pants - his body was swelling. I made that very clear.
Cong. Rohrabacher: Okay
CW: The FBI says that he had been there, the report says an hour and hour and a half before I found him. Something like that. The body was swelling, his shirt was getting tight and his pants were getting tight.
Cong. Mica: Was it warm?
CW: Hot. Hot. But on that hill the body was still shaded.
Cong. Burton: But you didn't see any signs the body had been sliding all over the place?
CW: Oh, no.
Cong. Burton: What did it look like?
CW: When I first saw it was someone there, I thought- I was about half way from where I had crossed the berm to him and realized it was someone, because I just saw something there. I thought it was just trash and I said to myself, what common SOB would throw trash over the hill with a trash can right there by the picnic bench with the cannon. And I just went and it was a little bit out of my way to go back to the van, going that way, then I saw it was a body and I- wait a minute, somebody is asleep and I started - that's a heck of a place for someone to sleep with a bench and everything right here. That's when I stepped closer and saw that he was definitely--
Cong. Mica: How long did you spend over the body? Five seconds, ten seconds?
CW: Oh, no. Two minutes.
Cong. Mica: two, three minutes?
CW: Not- that's a tough one. Because I wasn't panicked. I think I was fairly deliberate in studying--
Cong. Mica: The body?
CW: What was going on. I wasn't studying it for any other reason than curiosity. I wasn't studying it for - God knows if I knew what was coming up I would have went and got a notepad and went back and started writing.
Cong. Mica: You were pretty sure though that he was dead seeing flies around his-
CW: Oh, Yes.
Cong. Mica: Have you ever seen a dead body?
CW: Yes I have.
Cong. Burton: I think we have covered about everything.
Cong. Rohrabacher: Okay, listen. Thank you very much, and CW-
CW: Could I have a card?
Cong. Burton: We will all give you one of our cards.