by Brian Tyler Cohen and Marc Elias
Democracy Watch with Marc Elias
Feb 10, 2025
Democracy Watch episode 258: Marc Elias discusses Trump suffering a major rollback from judge.
Transcript
[Brian Tyler Cohen] This is democracy watch. Marc, Donald
Trump just got some bad news from a
federal judge. As you know, he moved to
fire thousands of usaid employees. That
effort didn't work especially well in
court. Can you explain what just happened?
[Marc Elias] Yeah, this is breaking news. And this is
really, really important, because we
have seen Donald Trump Target usaid, we
have seen Marco Rubio, who by the way
used to say he was a big fan of usaid,
he turned out to go along
with this, and we saw Elon Musk most
importantly perhaps target usaid.
And the net effect of this was to try to
put on administrative leave
2700 employees of usaid
overseas, and 500 of them were put on
administrative leave before this lawsuit
was filed. As of Friday
night at midnight, the remaining 2200
were supposed to be put on
administrative leave.
Well, this judge,
appointed, by the way, by Donald
Trump in his first term [Judge Nichols] blocked it
and said, "Nope, those 2200 people cannot
be put on an administrative leave, and
the 500 people that were put on
administrative leave need to be taken
off administrative leave.
So this was a big
win for democracy forward, the legal
organization that brought this
lawsuit on behalf of these folks, a big
win for usaid obviously, the
people who do the work, and a bit of
a surprising black eye to
Elon Musk and Donald Trump.
[Brian Tyler Cohen] Marc,
before we go further into the legal
implications of all this, can you just
talk about what usaid is, what it does,
and really frankly, why Americans
should even care about the preservation
of this program?
[Marc Elias] Yeah, I mean what's
interesting is that usaid was created
during the Cold War as a tool to win the
Cold War. The idea was that we needed it
in order to win the fight against the
Soviet Union against Chinese influence
in southeast Asia. We needed an agency
that would deliver aid to people and
thereby garner goodwill towards the
United States. Because in many, many parts
of the world, the delivery of aid is inextricably linked to the
hearts and minds of the local population.
So the idea was that if people were
getting bags of grain that had an
American flag on it saying, "Courtesy of
the American people," and there were
workers on the ground who are
vaccinating their children, or helping
build roads, that this was a way
to help win the Cold War, to defeat
communism, defeat the Soviet Union. It
was part and parcel of a number of other
programs like this, for example the
Peace Corp right? The Peace Corp was also
a program built by John Kennedy to
defeat the Cold War by, again, creating
this sort of soft power. And so over the
years, Brian, and this is really important
for people, over the years some of the
biggest proponents of usaid have
actually been conservative,
pro-military
Hawks, because if you are a
foreign policy Hawk, if you're
anti-russia, anti China, usaid has been
viewed as one of the most effective
tools to defeat China's expansionist
plans, to defeat Russia's expansionist
plans, and like I said, garner the
goodwill of the local populations in a
lot of parts of the world.
So the undoing of this is just a
gift to the communists in
Beijing; this is a gift to Vladimir
Putin; this is not
helping America maintain its position
of strength around the world.
[Brian Tyler Cohen] Well, can
you dig into that further, because now
what happens if usaid goes away, which, by
the way, I know that the Elon's of
the world will frame this as some
massive example of waste, fraud and
abuse, this is about a half of 1% of the
federal budget, and in exchange for that,
to your exact point, we garner goodwill
across the world without having to
engage in any conflict, without having to
fire any bullets. That's just a way to
win over countries across
the entire planet. So what happens in the
absence of usaid given the
fact that we would no longer be there?
[Marc Elias] Yeah, so I mean China has its own program
along these lines, as does Russia, as does
Isis, as does Iran, right? I mean like
every time we talk about these programs of
influence, you know, how is it that Isis
gains a foothold in a place, or how does
China expand into Africa, it is
oftentimes by setting up local Aid
Services, setting up clinics, providing
services at the local level. And usaid is
a critical piece
of doing that for the American
public so that people who feel like they
are being fed by the United States, or
getting vaccines from
the United States, are less likely to be
susceptible to Russian, to Chinese, to
other terrorist movements who
are otherwise competing to do that.
So this is a huge win for China. I mean
the biggest single victor of this plan
is going to be China, because China has
been actively acting to get into
this area. And they have a
very well-funded program. And they will
step into the void, right? And China's
program is the the Belt and Road
initiative.
And to your exact point
that the US will kind of seed this
ground to China, China is perfectly content to go
against the interests of the United
States for a fraction of the
cost of having to go to war in any of
these countries across the world.
Just
doing goodwill, aside from the fact that
it's just virtuous to do HIV
prevention, it's virtuous to do clean
water programs, and on and on, we also get
to garner that goodwill, and that'll help
us economically, it'll
help us with our national security, it'll
help us militarily across the world. And
so [shutting down that program] would be against the interest of
the United States. But it's not against
the interest of somebody like Elon Musk
who has business interests in Beijing,
who has business interest in
Shanghai. And so he has a vested interest
in making sure that he can help out
China. And by dismantling usaid, even before he
goes into the obvious departments like DOD, for example, which has
failed the last almost dozen audits,
he'll go into
usaid, and the only people that will be
better off in the long run as the result
of this are going to be the only country
that Elon is looking to expand his
foothold in, which is China.
I mean what
is really sad is that there has been so
much misinformation and disinformation
spread about us Aid and about what has
been going on that as you said you know
in sort of your initial question like if
you're just an average American and
you're reading about this you're
thinking oh this is good they're saving
money they're not you know they're not
uh taking our taxpayer money and using
it abroad but the fact is that that that
the way in which US Aid money is spent
as as you said is some of the most
effective ways to make sure that you
have pro- us governments you have Pro us
populations you have folks who you know
Aspire and see the United States as a
friendly force and what does that do
that means that as those societies
develop they become friendlier for
American Products as governments form
around them they become more friendly to
the United States not just on a military
basis by the way but also on all these
other on all these other bases I mean
every time we withdraw from the world's
stage it is not just that China China is
offering more Aid or you know Military
Support or anything else they're also
looking to build trading uh trading uh
uh partners and that is that is why it
is so inexplicable that this is but
Brian I want to say there was a lot of
talk at the beginning of this
Administration about how competent they
were going to be remember that like they
were going to come in and they were
going to be super competent they keep
losing court case after court case after
court case and I want to bring it back
to something that I said this they lost
this case before a judge appointed by
Donald Trump in his first term now you
know that that there are I think two
things to take away from that the first
is that I think people assume that every
judge appointed by Donald Trump is gonna
always rule in his favor I don't think
we should look at a judge in Florida for
example as the iconic example of how all
judges uh uh work uh this judge I think
had a very thoughtful hearing wrote a
very thoughtful opinion uh but the
second thing is that you know people
can't give up the fight they can't think
that there is no way to fight back
against these things because the fact is
Donald Trump keeps losing these lawsuits
I mean Donald Trump has now lost lawsuit
after lawsuit after lawsuit his
Department of Justice the lawyers there
must be Shell Shocked by the number of
cases they are having to defend and make
fools out of themselves frankly in some
of them but they and they keep losing
them and the Department of Justice is
not used to losing cases and and that's
really the point I want to hammer to
everyone it is very unusual very unusual
for a federal judge to slap down the
Department of Justice over executive
power that's just like you know I mean
you really have to go a long way to
overstep and yet we keep seeing in case
after case after case that's what's
happening and so I'm sure these doj
lawyers don't know what to do of course
they're also potentially being asked to
retire to to to take early retirement or
being threatened with being fired so I'm
sure that's not helping but but it's
showing that the fight in court is
working so I just want to make sure
everyone knows that well that's a good
opportunity to underscore that you know
you you have been consistent in pointing
out that the courts are going to serve
as our our last and most effective Bull
workk against the worst excesses of the
Trump Administration and you obviously
cover them extensively on a daily basis
with democracy docket which is the news
Outlet you found it to focus on
everything voting in elections highly
recommend if you are looking for any
news regarding what's happening in the
courts which which again are proving
that they are up to the task right now
of standing up to the Trump
Administration in the same way that
these republicans in Congress are not
please make sure to sign up for
democracy. I'll put the link right here
on the screen and also in the post
description of this video I'm Brian
teller Cohen I'm Mark Elias this is
democracy watch
[Music]a
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US judge to temporarily block Trump from taking some steps to dismantle USAID
by Reuters
Voice of America
February 07, 2025 6:24 PM
https://www.voanews.com/a/us-judge-to-t ... 67290.html
WASHINGTON — A U.S. judge on Friday said he would enter a "limited" order temporarily blocking the Trump administration from taking some steps to dismantle the U.S. Agency for International Development, adding that 2,200 employees from the agency would not immediately be placed on administrative leave.
U.S. District Judge Carl Nichols in Washington, who was nominated by Trump during his first term, announced the decision at a hearing on a lawsuit from the largest U.S. government workers' union and an association of foreign service workers, who sued to stop the administration from dismantling the agency.
Nichols said the written ruling would be issued later Friday.
The administration in a notice sent to the foreign aid agency's workers on Thursday said it would keep 611 essential workers on board at USAID out of a worldwide workforce that totals more than 10,000.
"The major reduction in force, as well as the closure of offices, the forced relocation of these individuals were all done in excess of the executive’s authority in violation of the separation of powers," Karla Gilbride, a lawyer for the unions, said at the hearing.
A Justice Department official, Brett Shumate, told Nichols that about 2,200 USAID employees would be put on paid leave under the administration's plans, adding that 500 had already been placed on leave.
"The president has decided there is corruption and fraud at USAID," Shumate said.
However, the judge said his order would prevent those 2,200 employees from being immediately placed on administrative leave and would also pause the relocation of certain humanitarian workers stationed outside the United States.
Hours after he was inaugurated on Jan. 20, Trump ordered all U.S. foreign aid be paused to ensure it was aligned with his "America First" policy. Chaos has since consumed USAID, which distributes billions of dollars of humanitarian aid around the world.
The State Department issued worldwide stop-work directives after the executive order was issued, effectively freezing all foreign aid with the exception of emergency food assistance. That brought USAID programs covering lifesaving aid around the globe to a grinding halt, in a move that experts warned risked killing people.
The gutting of the agency has largely been overseen by businessman Elon Musk, the world's richest man and a close Trump ally spearheading the president's effort to shrink the federal bureaucracy.
In fiscal 2023, the United States disbursed, partly via USAID, $72 billion of aid worldwide on everything from women's health in conflict zones to access to clean water, HIV/AIDS treatments, energy security and anti-corruption work.
The U.S. provided 42% of all humanitarian aid tracked by the United Nations in 2024, yet that represents less than 1% of its total budget.
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Trump administration temporarily blocked from placing 2,200 USAID workers on paid leave
by Ellen Knickmeyer
Associated Press
Feb 7, 2025 5:32 PM EST
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/t ... paid-leave
WASHINGTON (AP) — A federal judge on Friday temporarily blocked the Trump administration from placing 2,200 employees of the U.S. Agency for International Development on paid leave.
U.S. District Judge Carl Nichols, who was nominated by President Donald Trump, sided with two federal employee associations in agreeing to a pause in plans to put the employees on paid leave as of midnight Friday.
The workers associations argue that Trump lacks the authority for his swift dismantling of a six-decade-old aid agency enshrined in congressional legislation.
“CLOSE IT DOWN,” Trump said Friday on social media of USAID.
Crews used duct tape to block out the agency’s name on a sign outside its Washington headquarters Friday, and a flag was taken down. Someone placed a bouquet of flowers outside the door.
A group of a half-dozen USAID officials speaking to reporters Friday strongly disputed assertions from Secretary of State Marco Rubio that the most essential life-saving programs abroad were getting waivers to continue. With all but several hundred staffers forced out and funding stopped, the agency has “ceased to exist,” one official on the call said.
The Trump administration and billionaire ally Elon Musk, who is running a budget-cutting Department of Government Efficiency, have targeted USAID hardest so far in an unprecedented challenge of the federal government and many of its programs.
The administration told remaining USAID officials on Thursday afternoon that it planned to exempt 297 employees from global leave and furloughs ordered for at least 8,000 staffers and contractors, according to USAID staffers and officials.
Late that night, a new list was finalized of 611 employees to remain on the job, many of them to manage the return home of thousands of staffers, contractors and their families abroad, the officials said. Justice Department lawyer, Brett Shumate, confirmed the 611 figure in court.
The USAID officials and staffers spoke on condition of anonymity due to a Trump administration order barring them from talking publicly.
Some of the remaining staffers and contractors, along with an unknown number of 5,000 locally hired employees abroad, would run the few life-saving programs that the administration says it intends to keep going for now.
It was not immediately clear whether the reductions would be permanent or temporary, potentially allowing more workers to return after what the Trump administration says will be a review of which aid and development programs it wants to resume.
Trump and Musk have spoken of moving surviving programs under the State Department.
Within the State Department itself, employees fear substantial staff reductions following the deadline for the Trump administration’s offer of financial incentives for federal workers to resign, according to officials who spoke on condition of anonymity for fear of reprisal. A judge temporarily blocked that offer and set a hearing Monday.
At USAID, among the programs officials said had not received waivers: $450 million in food grown by U.S. farmers sufficient to feed 36 million people, which was not being paid for or delivered; and water supplies for 1.6 million people displaced by war in Sudan’s Darfur region, which were being cut off without money for fuel to run water pumps in the desert.
The administration earlier this week gave almost all USAID staffers posted overseas 30 days, starting Friday, to return to the U.S., with the government paying for their travel and moving costs. Diplomats at embassies asked for waivers allowing more time for some, including families forced to pull their children out of schools midyear.
In a notice posted on the USAID website late Thursday, the agency clarified that none of the overseas personnel put on leave would be forced to leave the country where they work. But it said that workers who chose to stay longer than 30 days might have to cover their own expenses unless they received a specific hardship waiver.
Rubio said Thursday during a trip to the Dominican Republic that the government would help staffers get home within 30 days “if they so desired” and would listen to those with special conditions.
He insisted the moves were the only way to get cooperation because staffers were working “to sneak through payments and push through payments despite the stop order” on foreign assistance. Agency staffers deny his claims of obstruction.
Rubio said the U.S. government will continue providing foreign aid, “but it is going to be foreign aid that makes sense and is aligned with our national interest.”
Democratic lawmakers and others call the move illegal without congressional approval.
The same argument was made by the American Foreign Service Association and the American Federation of Government Employees in their lawsuit filed late Thursday. It asks the federal court in Washington to compel the reopening of USAID’s buildings, return its staffers to work and restore funding.
Government officials “failed to acknowledge the catastrophic consequences of their actions, both as they pertain to American workers, the lives of millions around the world, and to US national interests,” the suit says.
AP reporters Matthew Lee, Farnoush Amiri and Lindsay Whitehurst in Washington contributed to this report.
