“My Heart Is Still in Gaza”: Palestinian Scientist Flees Israeli Bombs, Begs World to Stop Genocideby Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
January 05, 2024
https://www.democracynow.org/2024/1/5/m ... transcriptIn Gaza, the death toll from Israel’s 90-day bombardment has topped 22,600, with another 7,000 people reported missing and presumed dead. As the IDF intensifies its attacks on refugee camps in central and south Gaza — areas deemed by Israel to be safe zones — we speak with Mohammed Ghalayini, an air quality scientist and co-founder of Amplify Gaza Stories, who made the “impossible choice” to flee from Gaza to Britain, where he has dual citizenship. “It was really hard to imagine things getting any worse on any particular day, but they did keep getting worse,” says Ghalayini. “I’m fearful for everyone I know that’s in Gaza, from either meeting an explosive death or a death by trigger-happy genocidal soldiers who are like drunk, obviously, on the power that they are wielding.”
TranscriptThis is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: We begin today’s show in Gaza, where the death toll from Israel’s 90-day bombardment has topped 22,600, with another 7,000 people reported missing and presumed dead. Health officials in Gaza say Israel killed at least 162 Palestinians over the last 24 hours as the IDF intensifies its attacks on refugee camps in central and south Gaza — areas deemed by Israel to be safe zones. Doctors in Gaza describe horrific conditions inside the few hospitals still open.
In a minute, we’ll be joined by a Palestinian man who just arrived in Britain after fleeing Gaza. Mohammed Ghalayini is an air quality scientist who spent nearly three months in Gaza, where he had been visiting family. He just returned to Manchester, England, Wednesday, where he has dual citizenship. This is Ghalayini speaking at the airport after his arrival in Britain.
MOHAMMED GHALAYINI: After spending 65 days under Israel’s brutal bombing, I made what was to me an impossible choice, one that I’d been fearing since the beginning of the attacks, and that was to use the privilege of my British passport to leave Gaza. It’s a choice not available to the majority of Palestinians in Gaza, people who are currently suffering from malnutrition, severe dehydration and an overwhelming public health crisis, as Israel relentlessly and openly pursues a campaign to force all the people out of Gaza, be it by death or forced relocation to Egypt. I actually fear that I may never — we may never see our home again.
AMY GOODMAN: Mohammed Ghalayini, speaking after landing in Manchester Wednesday, joining us now from Manchester, also the co-founder of Amplify Gaza Stories, which works to share voices from Gaza.
Mohammed Ghalayini, you were in Gaza with your family. You fled first to Egypt on December 10th, and now you’re home in Manchester. Can you lay out what you saw? Can you talk about Israel’s bombardment of Gaza?
MOHAMMED GHALAYINI: Hi, Amy. Thank you for having me on. Goodness, that’s quite a — quite a difficult question to answer comprehensively, but I’ll try. I guess — sorry, I just need to take a moment.
It’s — it was really hard to imagine things getting any worse on any particular day, but they did keep getting worse. I think that’s probably like one way to look at it. You know, I think we —
AMY GOODMAN: Can you start off by telling us where you were? We’ll just go through some of the facts.
MOHAMMED GHALAYINI: Yeah, of course.
AMY GOODMAN: You had gone to Gaza to see your family. When did you go?
MOHAMMED GHALAYINI: I traveled to Gaza on the 18th of September for an extended visit, both to see my family but also to look at moving back there for work. I’ve been out of Gaza for almost 20 years now. And, you know, the trip was going, I guess, as planned. On the morning of the 7th of October, I had got up quite early to go harvest olives with my cousins, and as I woke up, I saw rocket trails. That gave me the first tipoff that something was off. I guess as the rocket fire lasted into more than an hour, then it started becoming apparent how significant the day was. Then there was a bombing, an Israeli aerial bombardment, 50 meters from our apartment, that shattered all the glass there. And we, at that point, started taking the decision to leave the apartment, because it’s actually quite close to the beach, so not a great place to be.
And then began a succession of displacements, first to an apartment about a kilometer away, then to my father’s home and IVF center, then to a hotel in north Gaza that was supposedly a safe haven because of its — you know, shelters journalists and aid workers. I’ve since learned that that’s been destroyed, as has my father’s IVF center and home.
On the 13th of October, you know, with bombing happening all around us, we saw tower blocks, that housed thousands of people, being bombarded for 36 hours, and eventually they were brought down after this one-ton bombardment. There was, I mean, destruction everywhere that you looked, wherever you went.
And, yeah, on the 13th of October, Israel issued an order to the population of Gaza — an illegal order, I might add — telling people to leave, to go south of Wadi Gaza, the Gaza River. And, you know, it set a lot of people into a panic. And anyone that had an ability to leave, a lot of people left, and we were among them. It was a very, very difficult choice then, because it’s like an impossible choice or a false choice between, I guess, your safety and your home. And then, you know, if you consider the headlines that you were — you know, the headline about the bombardment in areas of Khan Younis in the south that were deemed as, in quote, “safe zones,” we found out, as hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, that nowhere was actually safe in Gaza.
And I think that’s all part of this strategy of terrorizing Palestinians, sowing deliberate confusion, until people, like, at the end of their tether, because they have no access to water, scarce food and no access to healthcare. And people eventually are going to be asking themselves, “Well, where should we go?”
And, you know, I truly am of the belief, and I think there is — like, evidence suggests that Israel is trying to push Palestinians into the Sinai. They’ll deny it, and their supporters will deny it, but, ultimately, Israel is a master of creating facts on the ground and plausible deniability, I guess. And I can carry on, if you want, recounting our journey.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, let me ask you something. You’re an air quality scientist. Can you talk about the air quality in Gaza with this massive level of bombardment?
MOHAMMED GHALAYINI: Excuse me. So, I’ve got a cough now. And I think throughout my time in Gaza, I had a cough, and I think that coughs are quite common right now. And part of that is because of the number of respiratory irritants that are in the air because of the bombardment, so starting with the rubble from buildings that, when it’s bombed, are pulverized into fine particles, that every time there’s a gust of wind spread in the air and create an elevated level of particulate matter.
But then, it doesn’t stop at rubble from buildings and other explosive residue and what have you, because you also have — because of the lack of power right now, people are relying on alternative fuels to — so, for example, solid fuel for cooking is so common. So, you walk down any street, and it’s thick with smoke from countless fires that are being lit just to substitute for gas. And then add to that, because of the lack of transport fuel, people are fueling their cars with cooking oil, that, again, is not a good substitute for diesel, because it has like a higher — a worse emission profile that, again, causes untold public health harms. And I think those are the key air quality —
AMY GOODMAN: Mohammed, can you —
MOHAMMED GHALAYINI: — issues right now. Yeah.
AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about the Israeli so-called fire belts, the name of the rapid-succession strikes that destroy whole Gaza city blocks?
MOHAMMED GHALAYINI: Yeah. It’s really something horrific to behold, because, you know, you just — you hear the whoosh of a jet, and then you hear the explosion, the results from, say, a one-ton bomb that’s laid down. And then you think, “OK, is that it?” And then you hear 10 more in quick succession that just, like, surround or saturate a neighborhood with bombardment. And people have nowhere to go.
So, for example, as I was saying, we were in this location in north Gaza next to the Mukhabarat towers in north Gaza by the beach, and these towers were subject to an almost 24-hour successive fire belt. Some people came to us — they came to seek shelter where we were. And they said, you know, “We couldn’t leave. We were pinned down by bombing all around us.”
And, you know, it’s this massive, indiscriminate use of explosive power in densely populated areas without any regard for civilian lives in those areas. And, you know, it’s very — it’s very cynical, because, you know, they — and I think, initially, an Israeli military spokesperson says, “We are seeking damage, not accuracy,” in their bombing. But then, at the same time, they keep saying, “Our strikes are very targeted, and our strikes are only focused on terrorist structure,” like, you know, that kind of tired terminology of terrorism that they use. And then, later on, we find out that more than 50% of the munitions dropped on Gaza were not smart, targeted bombs, but rather just — yeah, so it’s really hard, I mean, being in it, but also just being around it and hearing, knowing that every explosion is another family being killed and displaced and losing their home.
AMY GOODMAN: Mohammed —
MOHAMMED GHALAYINI: It’s really —
AMY GOODMAN: On an Instagram post in early November, you said, “Really sad to hear that my dear Cousin Laila El-Haddad’s uncle’s family have been killed by the Israeli bombing of their home in Gaza city. I didn’t know them but feel your pain Laila!” you write. You said you “acknowledged their murder on an interview with BBC 5 Live just now and the presenter tried to mince words that they needed to verify.” Your response?
MOHAMMED GHALAYINI: Again, the ultimate slight or cynical denial of the suffering of Palestinians. You know, on the one hand, we are expected to mourn and kind of acknowledge the death of Israelis — and, you know, as humanitarians, we do — and expected to accept the Israeli government’s narrative of that. But on the other hand, Palestinian suffering, Palestinian deaths, that are much more documented, are — each one is dissected and analyzed ad infinitum to deny, deny this, deny the genocide that is going on. And I will call it a genocide. I mean, it’s very — it’s just — it’s the ultimate in dehumanization, I’m sorry. Every time I report someone that I know or a relative that’s been killed by Israel, I’ll be asked, “But do you have proof that it was Israel? Do you have” — you know, we can’t verify that, surely, so we can’t mention it. It’s horrible.
AMY GOODMAN: Eighty members of your extended family have died in Gaza?
MOHAMMED GHALAYINI: Yes. So, 15 of my mother’s cousins were killed in their home in Khan Younis in early October. Later in October, another 10 of my mother’s cousins, 20 of my father’s cousins, and others that I’ve almost, like, lost track or lost count. And it’s just, we — I mean, my coping strategy is, in some way, to try and not know. But obviously you can’t avoid it.
I think one of the most horrific incidents that really stood with us, though, was in late December. Well, on the 19th of December, we got the news that six of my cousins, along with their in-laws from the Hanan family, so the Ghalayini family and the Hanan family, who were sheltering in the home of the Hanan family in Gaza City, they had been surrounded by the IDF for a couple of days, and then the Israeli army went into the house. They separated the men from the women. So, like, in that process in itself, in being able to separate men from women, it is telling. It is telling in terms of the level of respect, or lack thereof. And then, 15 of the men in the home were shot by the Israeli army. And then they also threw explosives into the rooms that the women were sheltering in, and many of them were injured, as well. This has been documented by the Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor. It’s also been — a press statement was issued by the U.N. Office for Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs.
And the Israeli army has form when it comes to summary executions. They executed their hostages as they were walking towards them barechested, waving white flags. And, you know, I’m fearful for everyone I know that’s in Gaza, from either meeting an explosive death or a death by trigger-happy genocidal soldiers who are like drunk, obviously, on the power that they are wielding. And also —
AMY GOODMAN: Mohammed, I wanted to get your response —
MOHAMMED GHALAYINI: — kind of — yeah.
AMY GOODMAN: — to Israel’s ambassador to the United Kingdom, where you have dual citizenship, Tzipi Hotovely, who has openly embraced destroying the whole of Gaza. She made the comment during an interview on the London radio station LBC.
TZIPI HOTOVELY: One of the things we realized, that every school, every mosque, every second house has an access to tunnel. So, this is — and, of course, ammunition.
IAIN DALE: But that’s an argument for destroying the whole of Gaza, every single building in it.
TZIPI HOTOVELY: So, do you have another solution how to destroy the underground tunnel city, that this is the place where the terrorists hide?
AMY GOODMAN: So, that’s the Israeli ambassador to the U.K. Can you first respond to Tzipi Hotovely?
MOHAMMED GHALAYINI: Of course. Tzipi Hotovely needs to be expelled from the United Kingdom. She is a purveyor of fake news that is a way of manufacturing consent for Israel’s genocidal actions. And the U.K. government needs to expel her as a diplomat. She is a propagandist, not a diplomat. And, you know, she is someone that is, you know, making the case for Israel to continue with this impunity in its war crimes. And it’s all fake news, with no proof. But, like, in the end, if you have a position of power and access to the media, then it doesn’t — you’re often unchecked and unquestioned.
Unfortunately, not all media — I mean, I’m glad the presenter challenged her, but I don’t think — I don’t know how far the challenge went in that piece. And ultimately, ultimately, there’s a lot of bad, bad journalism going on. And I guess this is like one of the reasons why this is so important to have like independent media like Democracy Now! and also like independent voices on social media kind of making sure that the checks and balances when it comes to political statements and propaganda are in place.
AMY GOODMAN: Mohammed, I want to ask you a last question. If you could talk about your decision — when you left Gaza, you stayed in Cairo to try to readjust, almost afraid to come home to Manchester. Can you talk about that transition, what you face now, what you’re calling for?
MOHAMMED GHALAYINI: I mean, so, my heart is still in Gaza. I did not want to leave Gaza, because I knew — when I was in Gaza, I knew that I could — I was there, I was present in the moment, and the only struggle that I was facing was that of surviving and telling our story. And now, I guess, outside Gaza, it’s a much — in some ways, it’s, obviously, I’m glad to be physically safe, but at the same time, I have like a very, very heavy weight of responsibility to keep honoring and amplifying the voices of, like, my country, people in Gaza, and making sure that we keep up the political pressure to make sure, you know, that, first of all, there’s a ceasefire and that Israel and its allies are held accountable. And so, I’m so glad that South Africa has brought this case at the International Court for Justice. And, you know, I think this would not have been possible without the voices of millions of supporters of Palestine protesting, and protesting in very, very difficult conditions, like a political climate that is so hostile, that accuses you of antisemitism, even though it’s the last thing that people are doing by criticizing Israel. And I think it’s so important to keep up that pressure, and I’m adding my voice to that.
And if I may, maybe just for a moment, speak of Amplify Gaza Stories, an initiative that I set up with friends and campaigners in Manchester, where, you know, we, like, ultimately wanted to — obviously, you know that there’s a narrative that’s predominant in terms of putting the Israeli narrative in front of the Palestinian narrative. And we felt there was always space for getting more Palestinian voices out there. And so we did this by — I took testimony. I interviewed people in Gaza. And we translated it and got it either published on social media or on — pushed it to other platforms. And it’s something that we’re continuing, along with like a network of contacts in Gaza, to make sure that the Palestinian voices are heard. And it’s a two-way thing, as well, because we’re also working on practical solidarity. So, for example, we have a — at the moment we’re raising money on a crowdfunder to support families cooking hot meals for their immediate communities. So it’s kind of about ensuring that they have the means for resilience, because I think right now one part of Israel’s strategy is battering down the resilience of Palestinians, so that people are so battered and broken that they can’t, like, resist through their existence. And that’s what we’re trying to do to help them with that.
AMY GOODMAN: There’s so much more to talk about, Mohammed, but we have to end here. Mohammed Ghalayini is a British Palestinian air quality scientist, spent nearly three months in Gaza, has just recently returned to Manchester, England. He returned on Wednesday, co-founder of Amplify Gaza Stories.
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“The IDF Should Not Exist”: Meet Meital Yaniv, Former Israeli Soldier Turned Anti-Zionist Organizerby Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
January 05, 2024
https://www.democracynow.org/2024/1/5/t ... transcriptWe speak with anti-Zionist organizer and former IDF soldier from Tel Aviv Meital Yaniv, who joined hundreds of Jewish activists and their allies to shut down the California state Capitol in Sacramento Wednesday to demand a ceasefire in Gaza and condemn the roughly $600 million in California taxes that is used annually for U.S. military aid to Israel. Yaniv recalls how they were raised “extremely Zionistic,” their experience in the Israeli Air Force and eventual turn to fight for Palestinian rights. “What Israel is doing right now has nothing to do with antisemitism. What Israel is doing right now is a genocide. What Israel has been doing for the past 75 years is apartheid, is occupation,” Yaniv says. “There is no need for any one of us to serve in the IDF. The IDF should not exist. The state of Israel should not exist.”
TranscriptThis is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman.
We continue our coverage of Gaza as we turn now to California, where hundreds of Jewish activists and their allies shut down the California state Capitol in Sacramento Wednesday during its first floor session of the new year, to demand a ceasefire in Gaza.
PROTESTER: [echoed by the people’s mic] Repeat after me: We shut down the first session of the California state Legislature today.
AMY GOODMAN: As chants rang out, the activists dropped banners that read “No U.S. Funding for Israel’s Genocide in Palestine.” Another banner noted California taxpayers contribute some $600 million to U.S. military aid to Israel each year. The direct action was organized by Jewish Voices for Peace, IfNotNow and the International Jewish Anti-Zionist Network, among others.
One of the protesters was a former Israeli IDF soldier, an Israeli Defense Force soldier, who will join us in a minute from San Francisco. This is Meital Yaniv addressing their fellow demonstrators.
MEITAL YANIV: My elders, state, family had meticulously taught me how to recognize genocide from infancy, how naked bodies get rounded up for torture and execution, how mass graves smell, how starvation and hate shakes a body, how ethnic cleansing martyred entire lineages and buries the wisdom of the land caretakers. The black-and-white images are now in color. The stories are live. And in this cycle we don’t need gas chambers, because we have U.S.-made bombs.
AMY GOODMAN: That’s Meital Yaniv addressing Wednesday’s protest that shut down the California state Assembly, an organizer organizer with Shoresh, a new Israeli anti-Zionist group based in the U.S. They were born in Tel Aviv. They’re a former IDF soldier, which they write about in their new book, bloodlines.
Welcome to Democracy Now!, Meital. Can you talk about why you’ve decided to take this stand? And talk about what you did as an Israeli soldier, and your change of heart.
MEITAL YANIV: Yes. Thank you, Amy, for having me, and thank you for the work that you do.
So, I was raised in a very, I would say, extremely Zionist family, but also very common way of being raised in Israel. I have a lot of war heroes in my family, fallen soldiers, Lehi quarters, Air Force commanders and the like, Mossad agents. And as the child of my father, I was recruited into the Air Force.
And after six months of serving, my base was moved from Tel Aviv to the south. This was 2002. And I was asked to send planes to fuel planes that were going into Gaza to bomb Gaza. At that time, I didn’t have the language to understand exactly what’s happening. But as we returned to the base, I had my first panic attack and couldn’t enter the base, and the next day had to come and stand trial, and I was grounded to the base for three weeks. And in those three weeks, I understand that I have to leave the army, and that knowing in that moment made me want to take my life, because it was so against everything I was taught.
And that started a process that I will be in for the rest of my life, which is the undoing of that indoctrination and that brainwashing and the way that the Israeli identity has been merged with the Zionist identity. And what I’m doing with bloodlines and the prayer that is bloodlines is to really bring the Israeli identity and Israeli state to a loving and caring death for the liberation of the land of Palestine.
AMY GOODMAN: What year was that? What year did you bomb Gaza?
MEITAL YANIV: 2002.
AMY GOODMAN: So, 2002, we’re talking about 20 years. And you were in a very elite group, the Israeli Air Force. Talk about that. There are actually a number of dissenters within that, for example, the well-known resister Yonatan Shapira, and others. And what it means for you now to speak out, and how much support you have publicly in Israel, and maybe privately, people who are afraid to speak out?
MEITAL YANIV: Yeah. My need to leave the army at the time really came from — like, my body said no. And it was an elite situation. Like, we all want to be in the Air Force, for different reasons. We’re also 18-year-olds that, at the time, you know, we feel like that the Air Force has better conditions. And it is considered a perk. And leaving the army was — at that time felt an impossible decision, and also there was no other decision in my body, so I had to follow that.
And in terms of being heard, I am trying to be heard as loudly as I can, because I do think that the only thing that is really unique about my experience is that I was raised extremely Zionistic and have walked here to the very other shore. And I remember each step. And from that place, I can compassionately relate to where everyone is at. But to reach voices inside Israel is extremely hard. I’m grateful to be a member of Shoresh. And that is kind of like the work that we’re trying to do here, is really find ways to be heard here and there. Yeah.
AMY GOODMAN: I should be more specific. As a former IDF soldier, you were responsible for assigning planes that the Israeli Air Force sent to refuel the other planes that were bombing Gaza?
MEITAL YANIV: Yes. So, I was —
AMY GOODMAN: That was your job.
MEITAL YANIV: Yeah, my job was to send, basically, fuel planes —
AMY GOODMAN: But you didn’t actually fly those planes.
MEITAL YANIV: — that were fueling the F-16, I’m assuming. No, no, I was on the ground.
AMY GOODMAN: So, if you can talk about the equation that some critics, pro-Israel advocates make of being anti-Zionist with being antisemitic?
MEITAL YANIV: Yeah. I think the issue here, you know, I was raised extremely Israeli, which also meant that I wasn’t raised very Jewish, which is also a very common thing. The way that the assimilation into Israeli identity happened within my lineages was to really, like, remove the Jewishness and really become this like tzabar heroic IDF soldier identity. And from that place, it — it’s almost impossible from that place to — sorry, Amy, can you repeat your question?
AMY GOODMAN: I was just saying the — if you can comment on those who say to be anti-Zionist is to be antisemitic?
MEITAL YANIV: Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Thank you. Yeah, from that merging, you know, the Zionist identity, a part of that propaganda is to really hold it within the cage of antisemitism. Like, every time that we criticize Israel, someone can say you’re antisemitic. But in reality, there’s nothing antisemitic about criticizing Israel. The merging of Israel with Judaism is something that Israel would like us to hold as a way to protect itself. But in reality, antisemitism is a very specific thing, that we are not causing it, and we will not undo it. And the only thing we can do is to continue to resist it.
And at the same time, what Israel is doing right now has nothing to do with antisemitism. What Israel is doing right now is a genocide. What Israel has been doing for the past 75 years is apartheid, is occupation. The techniques that are being used in the West Bank are clearly apartheid techniques that have nothing to do with antisemitism. So, criticizing that, walking in streets that are only for Israelis, that Palestinians are not able to walk on, in Hebron, there’s nothing antisemitic about criticizing that. Like, that is something that we are doing as Israelis.
AMY GOODMAN: And can you talk about how you are informed by your — by the fact that you’re a descendant of Holocaust survivors?
MEITAL YANIV: Yeah, and that is really something that I think has really formed my identity. And that is something also that I think really helps with the undoing of it all, because I really feel that that trauma seed really started there. And that is something that I’m also trying to do in bloodline, where I start with the story of my great-grandma, telling their story of survival, because in that story of survival, there’s also the need to escape and, in that need, the need to assimilate into a new identity of a colonizer of a settler colony. And in the doing of that, there wasn’t a moment of care, to take care of what just happened in their bodies. And that became a need to arm ourselves. I mean, I feel like I see it as a fear of annihilation, also an extreme form of victimhood, that is in our bodies. And from that place, it’s always been very, very hard when I see my elders to release the arms and to really tend to that original trauma and seed of the Holocaust.
AMY GOODMAN: Meital, as we wrap up, I wanted to ask you what message you have for young people, like Tal Mitnick, who is a refusenik, who’s refusing to be an Israeli soldier in the Occupied Territories, to these young people. And here you are in the United States shutting down the California Legislature. To the United States, your message?
MEITAL YANIV: My message is, first of all, for everyone who can, to just find their heart and to liberate themselves from this identity that we call an Israeli identity. And there is no need for any one of us to serve in the IDF. The IDF should not exist. The state of Israel should not exist. We can be free without it. We can have a true connection to our heart without that identity.
To the U.S. legislators in California, you know, the fact that we were even able to take a break while there’s a genocide happening is an impossible idea to hold. And in this moment, when you’re back from the break, we shut it down on one day, but now you really need to make decisions. And, you know, in the federal level, we are not being heard. So, please, ,I beg of you, make this stop, in whatever way you can.
AMY GOODMAN: Meital Yaniv, organizer with Shoresh, a new U.S.-based Israeli anti-Zionist group, born in Tel Aviv, former IDF soldier, descendant of Holocaust survivors. Their new book is titled bloodlines.
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Ralph Nader on Gaza Ceasefire & Why Suppression of Palestine Advocacy Is the Real Problem on Campusby Amy Goodman
DemocracyNow!
January 05, 2024
https://www.democracynow.org/2024/1/5/r ... transcriptRalph Nader, longtime consumer advocate, corporate critic and four-time former presidential candidate, joins Democracy Now! to discuss Americans pushing the government to end “this genocidal war in Gaza,” large donors influencing free speech and curriculum at universities, and his new book, The Rebellious CEO: 12 Leaders Who Did It Right.
TranscriptThis is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now! I’m Amy Goodman.
We end today’s show with Ralph Nader, longtime consumer advocate, corporate critic, four-time former presidential candidate. We’ll talk to him about several topics, including his new book, The Rebellious CEO: 12 Leaders Who Did It Right. He’s also the founder of Capitol Hill Citizen newspaper, has been named by Time and Life magazines one of the 100 most influential Americans of the 20th century.
But, Ralph, let’s begin with U.S. policy in Gaza. Amidst the protests nationwide calling for a ceasefire, senior Biden education official Tariq Habash resigned this week — he’s the first Biden appointee — over what he called Biden’s, quote, “complete unwillingness to demand an immediate and permanent cease-fire” in Gaza. Biden is facing reelection amidst a broader Middle East conflict. Ralph, you said, quote, “Biden and Congress are vigorously enabling the annihilations” in Gaza. What do you mean? And what do you feel needs to happen?
RALPH NADER: Well, the important thing in the U.S. here is to focus on Congress and the White House, because they are waist deep in this genocidal war in Gaza. The Congress is basically a rubber stamp and doesn’t even have public hearings as it shovels billions of dollars to Israel. And it’s about to pass, unless Bernie Sanders and others who are opposed, a $14.3 billion — with a “B” — appropriation for Israel, military arms and other aspects of the Israeli right-wing regime’s priorities.
And $14.3 billion is larger than the budget of the Environmental Protection Agency. It’s 20 times the budget of the Occupational Safety and Health Agency. It’s four times the budget of the National Park Service, which has 300 million visitors. So there is rising opposition to it in the Congress, mostly among Democrats, but not enough. And I think the Jewish Voice for Peace and other valiant people who are resisting should focus more on the Congress.
As far as Biden is concerned, it really gives a new meaning to hypocrisy. He keeps saying publicly that Israel should reduce its impact on civilian casualties and let humanitarian trucks in. At the same time, he’s sending ships full of munitions and cargo planes full of munitions to Netanyahu. You cannot have humanitarian trucks coming in — and there needs to be about 700, at least, a day — if you don’t have a ceasefire, because who’s going to go in? The roads are torn up. They can’t get to their destination. The hospitals and clinics have been destroyed or disabled. There’s no markets. There’s no ability to receive these materials. And the Israelis are letting in maybe 10, 20 trucks a day, but they’re delaying hundreds and hundreds of trucks ready to come in, which Biden has already paid for. So, Biden is playing Netanyahu’s game, but he’s trying to get away with highfalutin adherence to international law.
We don’t hear enough about the violation of international law, U.S. treaties, Geneva Conventions. It’s as if the U.S. can do anything it wants in Syria and Iraq, and Israel can continue to bomb repeatedly in Syria and do other violent acts, and the press never raises the issue of law. Without law, you have anarchy. You have what you’re seeing now.
And the U.S. is very much involved. And people are very concerned about a wider conflict here. The Israelis already struck in Beirut. And you have the Red Sea situation with the Houthi boats. And the U.S. is all over the place, aircraft carriers. They have 24/7 drones over Gaza. So, that’ll be a very good record when the reckoning comes after this war is over.
AMY GOODMAN: In fact, you are Lebanese American, Ralph, is that right, your family from Lebanon?
RALPH NADER: Yes.
AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to ask you a question that relates to this. You know, the protests around Gaza on college campuses around the country ultimately have led to the ouster of two college presidents, Liz Magill at UPenn, and now you have Claudine Gay. And I wanted to ask you about the protest yesterday led by Al Sharpton outside the New York office of the billionaire investor Bill Ackman, who helped lead a campaign that led to this week’s ouster of the Harvard University president, the first Black president of Harvard, Claudine Gay. Ackman, a Harvard alum, major donor to the university, has publicly railed against Harvard and other schools for supporting DEI — diversity, equity and inclusion — programs. Al Sharpton vowed to keep protesting outside Ackman’s office. This is what he said.
REV. AL SHARPTON: We have started these weekly one-hour protests in front of Mr. Ackman’s office. He has said that the resignation of Dr. Gay at Harvard is not the end of it. They are going to keep fighting 'til they end DEI, which is diversity, equity and inclusion. That's declaring a war on all of us — Blacks, women, gays. DEI was designed to bring fairness and equality to people that had been historically marginalized and eliminated.
AMY GOODMAN: So, that’s Al Sharpton. As part of his campaign to oust Gay as Harvard president, Bill Ackman helped amplify allegations that Gay had committed plagiarism in her academic work, but now Ackman’s wife, the MIT professor Neri Oxman, is facing a plagiarism scandal of her own. Business Insider has revealed Oxman plagiarized parts of her doctoral dissertation at MIT. On Thursday, she apologized and admitted making mistakes. Of course, there was no plagiarism panel that was set up — that’s the process at Harvard — that would evaluate President Gay before she was, ultimately, I guess you could probably say, pushed out by Harvard Corporation, with a lot of pressure from these major donors, like Bill Ackman. Your response, before we move into your book on corporate executives who did it right?
RALPH NADER: What’s been revealed is the big donors to these universities, especially private universities like Harvard, Yale, Princeton, have been exercising their baleful influence for many years over the curriculum. You know, it’s not surprising that Harvard Law School, for decades, never had a course on corporate law — corporate crime, rather. So, these large donors now have been revealed to have enormous power over the board of overseers over Harvard University. And that’s the next investigation for good student newspapers like The Harvard Crimson.
The stuff on plagiarism, it could be serious, but not in this case, given the review of the president’s past writings. The big issue is the slaughter, is the suppression of speech on college campuses dealing with the slaughter over there in Gaza.
And the fatality count is grossly undercounted, Amy. I know you refer to the official Hamas health authority count, where they only count people whose names they know who died, and so it’s over 22,000, 58,000 injuries. This is a massive undercount.
As the head of the global health department at University of Edinburgh said in an article in The Guardian the other day, there’s going to be half a million Gazans who are going to die before the end of this year, not only from the bombing, but from the effect of the bombing in terms of the destruction of the healthcare system, infectious diseases, polluted water, diarrhea, which little children — which is often a high rate of fatality, and very quickly — lack of any food, no shelter, 85% of the 2.3 million people homeless. They have no connection to sanitation, food, protection, the winter elements. My estimate now is at least 100,000 have died. And more will die every day because of the effects that I’ve just described.
The World Health Organization said they’ve never seen a situation like this in decades. The amount of — number of children being killed, in November, it was 150 a day from the Israeli bombing, and that’s compared to two a day in Afghanistan and less than one a day in Ukraine. So, that’s the main issue.
And the campus controversy talking about slurs and ethnic slurs and so forth, what’s behind it all is to repress the academic world from speaking out and acting on what our government is doing to make all this possible.
And then, we also have to focus on these corporations, for a lot of this aid to Israel bounces back into contracts for missiles. Raytheon, Boeing, Lockheed Martin, they’re raking it in. And people talk about the lobby in this country supporting any Israeli government can do no wrong, no matter how extreme. We have to talk about the military-industrial complex here on Capitol Hill pushing for more and more of these immense sales and profits.
AMY GOODMAN: Ralph, you just wrote a book. You are deeply critical right now of the corporations you just mentioned. But your book is The Rebellious CEO: 12 Leaders Who Did It Right. Some may be surprised to see you, this corporate critic, writing this book, famous for Unsafe at Any Speed: The Designed-In Dangers of the American Automobile, among other things. But in this last minute — and then we’ll do a post-show interview — talk about why you wrote it.
RALPH NADER: Because there are not enough good yardsticks to evaluate the misbehavior of giant CEOs of these multinational corporations, who distort markets, control markets, but they tell you, when you take — you criticize them for their munitions production, for opiates, for fossil fuels, for high drug prices, “Oh, we’re just meeting market demand.” Well, these 12 CEOs, they made profit, but they reversed the business model, focusing on protecting and treating workers right, consumer right, and the environment. And they spoke out against war. They spoke out against — Anita Roddick of The Body Shop spoke out against the cosmetic industry’s harm on young customers. Ray Anderson changed his entire —
AMY GOODMAN: Ralph, we have to leave it there, but we’re going to do Part 2 and post it at democracynow.org. Ralph Nader, author of The Rebellious CEO: 12 Leaders Who Did It Right. I’m Amy Goodman. Thanks for joining us.