Ancient India as Described by Megasthenes and Arrian

That's French for "the ancient system," as in the ancient system of feudal privileges and the exercise of autocratic power over the peasants. The ancien regime never goes away, like vampires and dinosaur bones they are always hidden in the earth, exercising a mysterious influence. It is not paranoia to believe that the elites scheme against the common man. Inform yourself about their schemes here.

Re: Ancient India as Described by Megasthenes and Arrian

Postby admin » Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:53 am

Fragm. XLIII.

Clem. Alex. Strom. I. p. 305, A, B (ed. Colon. 1688).

Of the Philosophers of India.*


[*Philosophy, then, with all its blessed advantages to man, flourished long ages ago among the barbarians, diffusing its light among the Gentiles, and eventually penetrated into Greece. Its hierophants were the prophets among the Egyptians, the Chaldaeans among the Assyrians, the Druids among the Gauls, the Sarmanaeans who were the philosophers of the Baktrians and the Kelts, the Magi among the Persians, who, as you know, announced beforehand the birth of the Saviour, being led by a star till they arrived in the land of Judaea, and among the Indians the Gymnosophists, and other philosophers of barbarous nations.]

There are two sects of these Indian philosophers — one called the Sarmanai and the other the Brachmanai. Connected with the Sarmanai are the philosophers called the Hylobioi,*...

[*The reading of the MSS is Allobioi.]

who neither live in cities nor even in houses. They clothe themselves with the bark of trees, and subsist upon acorns, and drink water by lifting it to their mouth with their hands. They neither marry nor beget children (like those ascetics of our own day called the Enkratetai. Among the Indians are those philosophers also who follow the precepts of Boutta, whom they honour as a god on account of his extraordinary sanctity.)*

[*V. 1. [x]. — The passage admits of a different rendering: "They (the Hylobioi) are those among the Indians who follow the precepts of Boutta." Colebrooke in his Observations on the Sect of the Jains, has quoted this passage from Clemens to controvert the opinion that the religion and institutions of the orthodox Hindus are more modern than the doctrines of Jina and of Buddha. "Here," he says, "to my apprehension, the followers of Buddha are clearly distinguished from the Brachmanes and Sarmanes. The latter, called Germanes by Strabo, and Samanaeans by Porphyrius, are the ascetics of a different religion, and may have belonged to the sect of Jina, or to another. The Brachmanes are apparently those who are described by Philostratus and Hierocles as worshipping the sun; and by Strabo and by Arrian as performing sacrifices for the common benefit of the nation, as well as for individuals ... They are expressly discriminated from the sect of Buddha by one ancient author, and from the Sarmanes (a) (Samana is the Pali form of the older Sramana.) or Samanaeans (ascetics of various tribes) by others. They are described by more than one authority as worshipping the sun, as performing sacrifices, and as denying the eternity of the world, and maintaining other tenets incompatible with the supposition that the sects of Buddha or Jina could be meant. Their manners and doctrine, as described by those authors, are quite conformable with the notions and practice of the orthodox Hindus. It may therefore be confidently inferred that the followers of the Vedas flourished in India when it was visited by the Greeks under Alexander, and continued to flourish from the time of Megasthenes, who described them in the fourth century before Christ, to that of Porphyrius, who speaks of them, on later authority, in the third century after Christ."]

As Bareau, Schopen, and other scholars have begun showing, the traditional stories, including even much of the canon, cannot be dated to anywhere near the time of the Buddha himself. Even the epithet "Buddha" does not appear in the Greek sources until Clement of Alexandria (mid-second to early third century AD), though it does appear on a Kushan coin of Kanishka I (r. first half of the second century AD), where it is written in Bactrian spelling [x] 'Buddha' http://www.bpmurphy.com/cotw/week2.htm, and bodhi 'awakening' is attested in the early third-century AD Major Inscriptions of king Devanampriya Priyadarsi, q. v. Chapter Two and Appendix C. Megasthenes, Pyrrho's contemporary, refers to Buddhists as Sarmanes, the Sramanas of the Mauryan inscription fragments in Greek. The word Sramana was the unambiguous term for 'Buddhists', and was still used exclusively in that sense in the Middle Ages, as shown in Chapter Two.

-- Greek Buddha: Pyrrho's Encounter With Early Buddhism in Central Asia, by Christopher I. Beckwith
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Re: Ancient India as Described by Megasthenes and Arrian

Postby admin » Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:07 am

Fragm. XLIV.

Strab. XV. 1, 68, -- p. 718

Of Kalanos and Mandanis.


Megasthenes, however, says that self-destruction is not a dogma of the philosophers, but that such as commit the act are regarded as foolhardy, those naturally of a severe temper stabbing themselves or casting themselves down a precipice, those averse to pain drowning themselves, those capable of enduring pain strangling themselves, and those of ardent temperaments throwing themselves into the fire. Kalanos was a man of this stamp. He was ruled by his passions, and became a slave to the table of Alexander.*

[*"Kalanos followed the Makedonian army from Taxila, and when afterwards taken ill burnt himself on a funeral pyre in the presence of the whole Makedonian army, without evincing any symptom of pain. His real name, according to Plutarch, was Sphines, and he received the name Kalanos among the Greeks because in saluting persons he used the form [x] instead of the Greek [x]. What Plutarch here calls [x] is probably the Sanskrit form kalyana, which is commonly used in addressing a person, and signifies 'good, just, or distinguished.'"—Smith's Classical Dictionary.]

He is on this account condemned by his countrymen, but Mandanis is applauded because when messengers from Alexander invited him to go to the son of Zeus, with the promise of gifts if he complied, and threats of punishment if he refused, he did not go. Alexander, he said, was not the son of Zeus, for he was not so much as master of the larger half of the world. As for himself, he wanted none of the gifts of a man whose desires nothing could satiate; and as for his threats he feared them not: for if he lived, India would supply him with food enough, and if he died, he would be delivered from the body of flesh now afflicted with age, and would be translated to a better and a purer life. Alexander expressed admiration of the man, and let him have his own way.
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Re: Ancient India as Described by Megasthenes and Arrian

Postby admin » Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:08 am

Fragm. XLV.

Arr. VII. ii. 3-9.

(See the translation of Arrian's Indika.)*


[*This fragment is an extract from Arrian's Expedition of Alexander, and not his Indika as stated (by an oversight). The translation is accordingly now inserted.]

Of Kalanos and Mandanis.

This shows that Alexander, notwithstanding the terrible ascendancy which the passion for glory had acquired over him, was not altogether without a perception of the things that are better; for when he arrived at Taxila and saw the Indian gymnosophists, a desire seized him to have one of these men brought into his presence, because he admired their endurance. The eldest of these sophists, with whom the others lived as disciples with a master, Dandamis by name, not only refused to go himself, but prevented the others going. He is said to have returned this for answer, that he also was the son of Zeus as much as Alexander himself was, and that he wanted nothing that was Alexander's (for he was well off in his present circumstances), whereas he saw those who were with him wandering over so much sea and land for no good got by it, and without any end coming to their many wanderings. He coveted, therefore, nothing Alexander had it in his power to give, nor, on the other hand, feared aught he could do to coerce him: for if he lived, India would suffice for him, yielding him her fruits in due season, and if he died, he would be delivered from his ill-assorted companion the body. Alexander accordingly did not put forth his hand to violence, knowing the man to be of an independent spirit. He is said, however, to have won over Kalanos, one of the sophists of that place, whom Megasthenes represents as a man utterly wanting in self-control, while the sophists themselves spoke opprobriously of Kalanos, because that, having left the happiness enjoyed among them, he went to serve another master than God.
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Re: Ancient India as Described by Megasthenes and Arrian

Postby admin » Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:40 am

BOOK IV.

Fragm. XLVI.

Strab. XV. I. 6-8,— pp. 686-688.

That the Indians had never been attacked by others, nor had themselves attacked others.

(Cf. Epit. 23.)


6. But what just reliance can we place on the accounts of India from such expeditions as those of Kyros and Semiramis?*

[*The expedition of Semiramis as described by Diodorus Siculus (II. 16-19), who followed the Assyriaka of Ktesias, has almost the character of a legend abounding with puerilities, and is entirely destitute of those geographical details which stamp events with reality. If this expedition is real, as on other grounds we may believe it to be, some traces will assuredly be found of it in the cuneiform inscriptions of Nineveh, which are destined to throw so much unexpected light on the ancient history of Asia. It has already been believed possible to draw from these inscriptions the foundations of a positive chronology which will fully confirm the indications given by Herodotus as to the epoch of Semiramis, in fixing the epoch of this celebrated queen in the 8th century of our era — an epoch which is quite in harmony with the data which we possess from other sources regarding the condition of the North-West of India after the Vedic times. "Kyros, towards the middle of the 6th century of our era, must also have carried his arms even to the Indus. Historical tradition attributed to him the destruction of Kapisa, an important city in the upper region of the Kophes (Plin. VI. 23); and in the lower region the Assakenians and the Astakenians, indigenous tribes of Gandara, are reckoned among his tributaries (Arrian, Indika, I. 3). Tradition further recounted that, in returning from his expedition into India, Kyros had seen his whole army perish in the deserts of Gedrosia (Arr. Anab. VI. 24. 2). The Persian domination in these districts has left more than one trace in the geographical nomenclature. It is sufficient to recall the name of the Khoaspes, one of the great affluents of the Kophes. Whatever be the real historical character of the expeditions of Semiramis and Kyros, it is certain that their conquests on the Indus were only temporary acquisitions, since at the epoch when Dareios Hystaspes mounted the throne the eastern frontier of the empire did not go beyond Arakhosia (the Haraqaiti of the Zend texts, the Haraouvatis of the cuneiform inscriptions, the Arrokhadj of Musalman geography, the provinces of Kandahar and of Ghazni of existing geography)— that is to say, the parts of Afghanistan which lie east of the Suliman chain of mountains. This fact is established by the great trilingual inscription of Bisoutoun, which indicates the last eastern countries to which Dareios had earned his arms at the epoch when the monument was erected. This was before he had achieved his well-known conquest of the valley of the Indus." — St. Martin, E'tude sur la Geographie Grecque et Latine de l'Inde, pp. 14 seqq.]

Megasthenes concurs in this view, and recommends his readers to put no faith in the ancient history of India. Its people, he says, never sent an expedition abroad, nor was their country ever invaded and conquered except by Herakles and Dionysos in old times, and by the Makedonians in our own. Yet Sesostris the Egyptian* ...

[*Sesostris (called Sesoosis by Diodorus) has generally been identified with Ramses the third king of the 19th dynasty of Manetho, the son of Seti, and the father of Menephthah the Pharaoh of the Exodus. Lepsius, however, from a study of the Tablet of Rameses II found at Abydos in Egypt, and now in the British Museum, has been led to identify him with the Sesortasen or Osirtasen of the great 12th dynasty. — See Report of the Proceedings of the Second International Congress of Orientalists, p. 44.]

... and Tearkon the Ethiopian advanced as far as Europe. And Nabukodrosor* ...

[*V.1. [x].]

... who is more renowned among the Chaldaeans than even Herakles among the Greeks, carried his arms to the Pillars,* ...

[*Called by Ptolemy the "Pillars of Alexander," above Albania and Iberia at the commencement of the Asiatic Sarmatia.]


... which Tearkon also reached, while Sesostris penetrated from Iberia even into Thrace and Pontos.

On the banks of the Hyphasis Alexander erected twelve towering altars to the twelve great gods of Olympus, as a thankoffering for having led him safely within reach of the world's end.

-- Chapter XVIII: The Conquest of the Far East, Excerpt from "History of Greece for Beginners", by J. B. Bury, M.A.


Besides these there was Idanthyrsos the Skythian, who overran Asia as far as Egypt.*

[*Herodotus mentions an invasion of Skythians which was led by Madyas. As Idanthyrsos may have been a common appellative of the Skythian kings, Strabo may here be referring to that invasion.]

But not one of these great conquerors approached India, and Semiramis, who meditated its conquest, died before the necessary preparations were undertaken. The Persians indeed summoned the Hydrakai* ...

[*The Hydrakai are called also Oxydrakai. The name, according to Lassen, represents the Sanskrit Kshudraka. It is variously written Sydrakai, Syrakusai, Sabagrae, and Sygambri.]

... from India to serve as mercenaries, but they did not lead an army into the country, and only approached its borders when Kyros marched against the Massagetai.

Of Dionysos and Herakles.

7. The accounts about Herakles and Dionysos, Megasthenes and some few authors with him consider entitled to credit, (but the majority, among whom is Eratosthenes, consider them incredible and fabulous, like the stories current among the Greeks ...)

8. On such grounds they called a particular race of people Nyssaians, and their city Nyssa,*...

[*V. II. [x]]

... which Dionysos had founded, and the mountain which rose above the city Meron, assigning as their reason for bestowing these names that ivy grows there, and also the vine, although its fruit does not come to perfection, as the clusters, on account of the heaviness of the rains, fall off the trees before ripening. They further called the Oxydrakai descendants of Dionysos, because the vine grew in their country, and their processions were conducted with great pomp, and their kings on going forth to war and on other occasions marched in Bacchic fashion, with drums beating, while they were dressed in gay-coloured robes, which is also a custom among other Indians. Again, when Alexander had captured at the first assault the rock called Aornos, the base of which is washed by the Indus near its source, his followers, magnifying the affair, affirmed that Herakles had thrice assaulted the same rock and had been thrice repulsed.*

[*This celebrated rock has been identified by General Cunningham with the ruined fortress of Ranigat, situated immediately above the small village of Nogram, which lies about sixteen miles north by west from Ohind, which he takes to be the Embolima (chorus's odes, invented by Agathon) of the ancients. "Ranigat," he says, "or the Queen's rock, is a large upright block on the north edge of the fort, on which Raja Vara's rani is said to have seated herself daily. The fort itself is attributed to Raja Vara, and some ruins at the foot of the hill are called Raja Vara's stables ... I think, therefore, that the hill-fort of Aornos most probably derived its name from Raja Vara, and that the mined fortress of Ranigat has a better claim to be identified with the Aornos of Alexander than either the Mahaban hill of General Abbott, or the castle of Raja Hodi proposed by General Court and Mr. Loewenthal." See Grote's History of India, vol. VIII. pp. 437-8, footnote.]
Image

Ranigat (Urdu: رانی گٹ‎) is a collection of 2nd century CE Buddhist ruins spread over an area of 4 square kilometers which dates from the Gandhara civilization. Ranigat is located in valley Buner of Pakistan's Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province.

According to the archeologists, Ranigat remained the center of Buddhist art and culture for centuries. Ranigat, has been a celebrated part of folklore, with songs and stories having been written about it.

-- Ranigat, by Wikipedia

They said also that the Sibae were descended from those who accompanied Herakles on his expedition, and that they preserved badges of their descent, for they wore skins like Herakles, and carried clubs, and branded the mark of a cudgel on their oxen and mules.*

[*According to Curtius, the Sibae, whom he calls Sobii, occupied the country between the Hydaspes and the Akesines. They may have derived their name from the god Siva.]

In support of this story they turn to account the legends regarding Kaukasos and Prometheus by transferring them hither from Pontos, which they did on the slight pretext that they had seen a sacred cave among the Paropamisadae. This they declared was the prison of Prometheus, whither Herakles had come to effect his deliverance, and that this was the Kaukasos, to which the Greeks represent Prometheus as having been bound.*

[*No writer before Alexander's time mentions the Indian gods. The Makedonians, when they came into India, in accordance with the invariable practice of the Greeks, considered the gods of the country to be the same as their own. Siva they were led to identify with Bacchus on their observing the unbridled license and somewhat Bacchic fashion of his worship, and because they traced some slight resemblance between the attributes of the two deities, and between the names belonging to the mythic conception of each. Nor was anything easier, after Euripides had originated the fiction that Dionysos had roamed over the East, than to suppose that the god of luxuriant fecundity had made his way to India, a country so remarkable for its fertility. To confirm this opinion they made use of a slight and accidental agreement in names. Thus Mount Meru seemed an indication of the god who sprang from the thigh of Zeus ([x]). Thus they thought the Kydrakae (Oxydrukai) the offspring of Dionysos because the vine grow in their country, and they saw that their kings displayed great pomp in their processions. On equally slight grounds they identified Krishna, another god whom they saw worshipped, with Herakles; and whenever, as among the Sibae, they saw the skins of wild beasts, or clubs, or the like, they assumed that Herakles had at some time or other dwelt there."— Schwanb. p. 43.]  
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Re: Ancient India as Described by Megasthenes and Arrian

Postby admin » Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:37 am

Fragm. XLVII.

Arr. Ind. V. 4-12.


(See the translation of Arrian's Indika.)
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Re: Ancient India as Described by Megasthenes and Arrian

Postby admin » Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:42 am

Fragm. XLVIII.

Josephus Contra Apion. I. 20 (T. II. p. 451, Havere.).

Of Nabuchodrosor.

(Cf. Fragm. XLVI. 2.)

Megasthenes also expresses the same opinion in the 4th book of his Indika, where he endeavours to show that the aforesaid king of the Babylonians (Nabouchodonosor) surpassed Herakles in courage and the greatness of his achievements, by telling us that he conquered even Iberia.

Fragm. XLVIII. B.

Joseph. Ant. Jud. X. ii, 1 (T. I. p. 538, Havere).

(In this place (Nabouchodonosor) erected also of stone elevated places for walking about on, which had to the eye the appearance of mountains, and were so contrived that they were planted with all sorts of trees, because his wife, who had been bred up in the land of Media, wished her surroundings to be like those of her early home.) Megasthenes also, in the 4th book of his Indika, makes mention of these things, and thereby endeavours to show that this king surpassed Herakles in courage and the greatness of his achievements, for he says that he conquered Libya and a great part of Iberia.

Fragm. XLVIII. C.

Zonar. ed. Basil. 1557, T. 1. p. 87.

Among the many old historians who mention Nabouchodonosor, Josephos enumerates Berosos, Megasthenes, and Diokles.

Fragm. XLVIII. D.

G. Syncell. T. I. p. 419, ed. Benn. (p. 221 ed. Paris, p. 177 ed. Venet.).

Megasthenes, in his fourth book of the Indika, represents Nabouchodonosor as mightier than Herakles, because with great courage and enterprise he conquered the greater part of Libya and Iberia.
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Re: Ancient India as Described by Megasthenes and Arrian

Postby admin » Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:52 am

Fragm. XLIX.

Abyden. ap. Euseb. Proep. Ev. I. 41 (ed. Colon. 1688, p. 456 D).

Of Nabouchudrosor.


Megasthenes says that Nabouchodrosor, who was mightier than Herakles, undertook an expedition against Libya and Iberia, and that having conquered them he planted a colony of these people in the parts lying to the right of Pontos.
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Re: Ancient India as Described by Megasthenes and Arrian

Postby admin » Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:54 am

Fragm. L.

Arr. Ind. 7-9.


(See the translation of Arrian's Indika.)

Fragm. L.B.

Plin. Hist. Nat. IX. 55.

Of Pearls.


Some writers allege that in swarms of oysters, as among bees, individuals distinguished for size and beauty act as leaders. These are of wonderful cunning in preventing themselves being caught, and are eagerly sought for by the divers. Should they be caught, the others are easily enclosed in the nets as they go wandering about. They are then put into earthen pots, where they are buried deep in salt. By this process the flesh is all eaten away, and the hard concretions, which are the pearls, drop down to the bottom.
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Re: Ancient India as Described by Megasthenes and Arrian

Postby admin » Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:57 am

Fragm. LI.

Phlegon. Mirab. 33.

Of the Pandaian Land.

(Cf. Fragm. XXX. 6.)


Megasthenes says that the women of the Pandaian realm bear children when they are six years of age.
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Re: Ancient India as Described by Megasthenes and Arrian

Postby admin » Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:06 am

Fragm. L.C.

Plin. Hist. Nat. VI. xxi. 4-5.

Of the Ancient History of the Indians.


For the Indians stand almost alone among the nations in never having migrated from their own country. From the days of Father Bacchus to Alexander the Great their kings are reckoned at 154, whose reigns extend over 6451 years and 3 months.

Solin. 52. 5.

Father Bacchus was the first who invaded India, and was the first of all who triumphed over the vanquished Indians. From him to Alexander the Great 6451 years are reckoned with 3 months additional, the calculation being made by counting the kings who reigned in the intermediate period, to the number of 153.

Whatever we may say, by way of criticism, about the Kaliyuga's commencement in 3102 B.C. or the Bharata War's occurrence in 3138 B.C. or the coronation of Mahapadma Nanda in 1638 B.C. or even the start of the Andhras in 802 B.C., we cannot help being struck with the precision with which this chronology synchronises Chandragupta I with Sandrocottus.

Such a situation raises the question: "Which of the Chandraguptas was Sandrocottus at whose court Megasthenes lived?" And it is indeed very pertinent to ask: "Does Megasthenes offer any chronological clue to solve it?"

The Chronological Clue from Megasthenes

We have three versions of a statement by Megasthenes, which can bear upon our problem. J. McCrindle has translated all of them.1 [The Classical Accounts of India, edited with an Introduction, Notes and Comments by R. C. Majumdar (Calcutta, 1960),- pp. 840, 457, 223. ]

Pliny (VI. xxl. 4-5) reports about the Indians: "From the days of Father Bacchus to Alexander the Great, their kings are reckoned at 154, whose reigns extend over 6451 years and 3 months."

Solinus (52.5) says: "Father Bacchus was the first who invaded India, and was the first of all who triumphed, over the vanquished Indians. From him to Alexander the Great 6451 years are reckoned with 3 months additional, the calculation being made by counting the kings, who reigned in the intermediate period, to the number of 153."

Arrian (Indica, I. ix) observes: "From the time of Dionysus to Sandrocottus the Indians counted 153 kings and a period of 6042 years, but among these a republic was thrice established... and another to 300 years, and another to 120 years. The Indians also tell us, that Dionysus was earlier than Heracles by fifteen generations, and that except him no one made a hostile invasion of India.... but that Alexander indeed came and overthrew in war all whom he attacked..."

It would be worth while discussing the three versions in every detail and arriving at what must have been the full original pronouncement of Megasthenes which has thus got transmitted with some confusions and inconsistencies and one lacuna. But for our immediate purpose it will suffice to make a few clarifying observations and then inquire: "What historical or legendary figure mentioned by the Indians became identified with Dionysus (Bacchus) in the Greek mind to serve as the starting-point of Indian chronology and of the line of Indian kings?

First, we may note...

-- Megasthenes and the Indian Chronology As Based on the Puranas, by K.D. Sethna
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