Ancient India as Described by Megasthenes and Arrian

That's French for "the ancient system," as in the ancient system of feudal privileges and the exercise of autocratic power over the peasants. The ancien regime never goes away, like vampires and dinosaur bones they are always hidden in the earth, exercising a mysterious influence. It is not paranoia to believe that the elites scheme against the common man. Inform yourself about their schemes here.

Re: Ancient India as Described by Megasthenes and Arrian

Postby admin » Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:31 am

FRAGM. VIII.

Arr. Indica, III. 7-8.

Of the Size of India.


With Megasthenes the breadth of India is its extent from east to west, though this is called by others its length. His account is that the breadth at shortest is 16,000 stadia, and its length — by which he means its extent from north to south — is at the narrowest 22,300 stadia."
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Re: Ancient India as Described by Megasthenes and Arrian

Postby admin » Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:36 am

FRAGM. IX.

Strabo, II. i. 19,— p. 76.

Of the setting of the Bear, and shadows falling in contrary directions.*


[*Conf. Epit. 8.]

Again, he (Eratosthenes) wished to show the ignorance of Deimachos, and his want of a practical knowledge of such subjects, evidenced as it was by his thinking that India lay between the autumnal equinox and the winter tropic, and by his contradicting the assertion of Megasthenes that in the southern parts of India the constellation of the Bear disappeared from view, and shadows fell in opposite directions,*...

[*Conf. Diod. II. 35, Plin. Hist. Nat. VI. 22. 6. The writers of Alexander's time who affirmed similar things were Nearchos and Onesikritos, and Baeto who exceeded all bounds. Conf. Lassen, Instit. Ling. Prac. Append, p. 2. — Schwanb. p. 29.]

— phenomena which he assures us are never seen in India, thereby exhibiting the sheerest ignorance. He does not agree in this opinion, but accuses Deimachos of ignorance for asserting that the Bears do nowhere in India disappear from sight, nor shadows fall in opposite directions, as Megasthenes supposed.
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Re: Ancient India as Described by Megasthenes and Arrian

Postby admin » Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:09 am

FRAGM. X.

Pliny, Hist. Nat. VI. 22. 6.

Of the Setting of the Bear.


Greek scholars often mentioned that Sandrocottus was the king of the country called as Prasii (Prachi or Prachya). Pracha or Prachi means eastern country. During the Nanda and Mauryan era, Magadha kings were ruling almost entire India. Mauryan Empire was never referred in Indian sources as only Prachya desa or eastern country. Prachya desa was generally referred to Gupta Empire because Northern Saka Ksatrapas and Western Saka Ksatrapas were well established in North and West India. Megasthenes mentioned that Sandrocottus is the greatest king of the Indians and Poros is still greater than Sandrocottus which means a kingdom in the North-western region is still independent and enjoying at least equal status with the kingdom of Sandrocottus.

-- Who was Sandrocottus: Samudragupta or Chandragupta Maurya? The Chronology of Ancient India, Victim of Concoctions and Distortions, by Vedveer Arya


Next (to the Prasii) in the interior are the Monedes and the Suari, to whom belongs Mount Maleus, on which shadows fall towards the north in winter, and in summer to the south, for six months alternately.*

Note especially that the gazetteer, like the sources used by Arrian in his narrative, does not mention the two names which play such a part in the vulgate tradition, the Ganges and the Prasii: and, looking at what the gazetteer does say about India, this shows conclusively that neither was known to its author, that is, to those about Alexander in 324/3. Alexander then can have known nothing of the Ganges or of Magadha.

-- Alexander and the Ganges, by William Woodthorpe Tarn


[*"The Mandali would seem to be the same people as the Monedes of Pliny, who with the Suari, occupied the inland country to the south of the Palibothri. As this is the exact position of the country of the Mundas and Suars, I think it quite certain that they must be the same race as the Monedes and Suari of Pliny. In another passage Pliny mentions the Mandei and Malli as occupying the country between the Calingae and the Ganges. Amongst the Malli there was a mountain named Mallus, which would seem to be the same as the famous mount Maleus of the Monedes and Suari. I think it highly probable that both names may be intended for the celebrated mount Mandar, to the south of Bhagulpur, which is fabled to have been used by the gods and demons at the churning of the ocean.]

Bhagalpur is a city of historical importance on the southern banks of the river Ganges in the Indian state of Bihar.

-- Bhagalpura, by Wikipedia


[*The Mandei I would identify with the inhabitants of the Mahanadi river, which is the Manada of Ptolemy. The Malli or Malei would therefore be the same people as Ptolemy's Mandalae, who occupied the right bank of the Ganges to the south of Palibothra, or they may be the people of the Rajmahal hills who are called Maler ... The Suari of Pliny are the Sabarrae of Ptolemy, and both may be identified with the aboriginal Savaras or Suars, a wild race of woodcutters who live in the jungles without any fixed habitation." — Cunningham's Anc. Geog. of India, pp. 508-9).]
Image
Malli: Location within South Asia

The Mallian campaign was conducted by Alexander the Great from November 326 to February 325 BC, against the Malli of the Punjab. Alexander was defining the eastern limit of his power by marching down-river along the Hydaspes to the Acesines (now the Jhelum and Chenab), but the Malli and the Oxydraci combined to refuse passage through their territory. Alexander sought to prevent their forces meeting, and made a swift campaign against them which successfully pacified the region between the two rivers. Alexander was seriously injured during the course of the campaign, almost losing his life.

The campaign against the Malli (identified with the Malavas) occurred a year after Alexander crossed the Hindu Kush, and eight years after the start of his campaigns against the Persian Empire.
The Malavas or Malwas were an ancient Indian tribe. Modern scholars identify them with the Malloi who were settled in the Punjab region at the time of Alexander's invasion in the 4th century BCE.

-- Malavas, by Wikipedia

Alexander had defeated King Porus at the Battle of the Hydaspes in May 326 BC, and then stayed in his territory for thirty days. During this time, he reconciled King Porus and his other vassal, Taxiles, with each other, as they were both to be his new vassals. Alexander achieved this by arbitrating their disputes and then arranging a family alliance. He then marched north-east toward the Glaukanokoi, and received the submission of their thirty-seven cities. Abisares of Kashimir submitted to the Macedonians as well, and gave them many gifts, including forty elephants....

At the Beas River, his army mutinied. They did not share his ambition and wished to return home. It had been raining for the last seventy days....

Alexander received news that the Mallians and the Oxydracians had decided to trade hostages with each other, and moved all their valuables into their fortified cities. They decided to combine their forces in order to prevent him from marching through their territory. Reports suggested that they had a total of 90,000 foot, 10,000 horse and 900 chariots. In spite of the fact that the two had traditionally been enemies, it was reported that they had laid aside their disputes to fight the Macedonians. Alexander decided to prevent them from joining their forces.

-- Mallian campaign [Indian Campaign #4 Nov. 326 B.C.-Feb 325 B.C.], by Wikipedia

The Bears, Baeton says, in that part of the country are only once visible in the course of the year, and not for more than fifteen days. Megasthenes says that this takes place in many parts of India.

Conf. Solin, 52. 13:—

Beyond Palibothra is Mount Maleus, on which shadows fall in winter towards the north, and in summer towards the south, for six months alternately. The North Pole is visible in that part of the country once in the course of the year, and not for longer than fifteen days, as Baeton informs us, who allows that this occurs in many parts of India.
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Re: Ancient India as Described by Megasthenes and Arrian

Postby admin » Fri Jul 09, 2021 5:41 am

Fragm. XI.

Strabo, XV. i. 20,— p. 693.

Of the Fertility of India.*


[*Conf. Epit. 5, 9.]

Megasthenes indicates the fertility of India by the fact of the soil producing two crops every year both of fruits and grain. (Eratosthenes writes to the same effect, for he speaks of a winter and a summer sowing, which both have rain: for a year, he says, is never found to be without rain at both those seasons, whence ensues a great abundance, since the soil is always productive. Much fruit is produced by trees; and the roots of plants, particularly of tall reeds, are sweet both by nature and by coction, since the moisture by which they are nourished is heated by the rays of the sun, whether it has fallen from the clouds or been drawn from the rivers. Eratosthenes uses here a peculiar expression: for what is called by others the ripening of fruits and the juices of plants is called among the Indians coction, which is as effective in producing a good flavour as the coction by fire itself. To the heat of the water the same writer ascribes the wonderful flexibility of the branches of trees, from which wheels are made, as also the fact of there being trees on which wool grows.*)

[*Conf. Herod. II. 86. " Velleraque ut foliis depectant tenuia Seres? — Virgil, Gor. ii. 121. — Falconer.]

Conf. Eratosth. ap. Strabo. XV. i. 13,— p. 690:—

From the vapours arising from such vast rivers, and from the Etesian winds, as Eratosthenes states, India is watered by the summer rains, and the plains are overflowed. During these rains, accordingly, flax* ...

[*[x], perhaps the the [x] of Arrian.]

is sown and millet, also sesamum, rice, and bosmorum,* ...

[*[x]— Strabo XV. i. 18.]

... and in the winter time wheat, barley, pulse, and other esculent fruits unknown to us.
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Re: Ancient India as Described by Megasthenes and Arrian

Postby admin » Fri Jul 09, 2021 5:50 am

Fragm. XII.

Strabo, XV. i. 37, — p. 703.

Of some Wild Beasts of India.


According to Megasthenes the largest tigers are found among the Prasii, being nearly twice the size of the lion, and so strong that a tame tiger led by four men having seized a mule by the hinder leg overpowered it and dragged it to him.
Shoulder Height:

Lion (male):


* 101 cm (n=50). Range: 86-109 cm. Stevenson-Hamilton (1947) – South Africa.
* 96.2 cm (n=14). Range: 81.3 cm-107 cm. Meinertzhagen (1938) – Kenya, East Africa.
* 110 cm (n=8). No range. Tefera (2003) – Addis Ababa Zoo, Ethiopia.
* 97 cm (n=?). No range. Pocock (1939).
* 114 cm Max. recorded in the Wild (Pitman, 1945).
* 112 cm. Max. recorded in captivity (Wood, 1983).

Bengal tiger (male):

* 109.3 cm (n=6). Range: 104-114 cm. Brown (1893) – Purneah, India.
* 100 cm (n=43). Range: 88-114 cm ♂. Cooch Behar (1908) – Northeast India.
* 88 cm (n=5). Range: 86-91 cm. ♀. Cooch Behar (1908) – Northeast India.
* 99 cm (n=42). Range: 91-112 cm. Brander (1923) – Central India.
* 93.3 cm (n=5). Range: 89-99 cm. Mazák (1983).
* 91 cm (n=?). No range. Pocock (1939).
* 114 cm Max. recorded in the Wild (Cooch Behar (1908) – Brown (1893)).
* 118 cm Max. recorded standing height in ANY WILD big cat (Ward, 1914)

-- Comparing Cats: A Discussion of Similarities & Differences, by WildFact

2 The monkeys are larger than the largest dogs; they are white except in the face, which is black, though the contrary is observed elsewhere. Their tails are more than two cubits in length. They are very tame, and not of a malicious disposition: so that they neither attack man nor steal. 3 Stones are dug up which are of the colour of frankincense, and sweeter than figs or honey. 4 In some parts of the country there are serpents two cubits long which have membranous wings like bats. They fly about by night, when they let fall drops of urine or sweat, which blister the skin of persons not on their guard, with putrid sores. There are also winged scorpions of an extraordinary size. 5 Ebony grows there. There are also dogs of great strength and courage, which will not let go their hold till water is poured into their nostrils: they bite so eagerly that the eyes of some become distorted, and the eyes of others fall out. Both a lion and a bull were held fast by a dog. The bull was seized by the muzzle, and died before the dog could be taken off.  
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Re: Ancient India as Described by Megasthenes and Arrian

Postby admin » Fri Jul 09, 2021 6:01 am

Fragm. XIII.*

[*Fragm. XIII. B.

Aelian, Hist. Anim. XVI. 10.

Of Indian Apes.


Among the Prasii in India there is found, they say, a species of apes of human-like intelligence, and which are to appearance about the size of Hurkanian dogs. Nature has furnished them with forelocks, which one ignorant of the reality would take to be artificial. Their chin, like that of a satyr, turns upward, and their tail is like the potent one of the lion. Their body is white all over except the face and the tip of the tail, which are of a reddish colour. They are very intelligent, and naturally tame. They are bred in the woods, where also they live, subsisting on the fruits which they find growing wild on the hills. They resort in great numbers to the suburbs of Latage, an Indian city, where they eat rice which has been laid down for them by the king's orders. In fact, every day a ready-prepared meal is set out for their use. It is said that when they have satisfied their appetite they retire in an orderly manner to their haunts in the woods, without injuring a single thing that comes in their way.]


Aelian, Hist. Anim. XVII. 39. Conf . Fragm. XII. 2.

Of Indian Apes.


In the country of the Praxii* ...

[*The Prachyas (i.e. Easterns) are called by Strabo, Arrian, and Pliny [x], Prasii; by Plutarch (Alex. 62) [x], a name often used by Aelian also; by Nikolaus Damas. (ap. Stob. Floril. 37, 38) [x]; by Diodorus (xvii. 93) [x]; by Curtius (IX. 2, 3) Pharrasii; by Justin (xii.8,9) Praesides. Megasthenes attempted to approximate more closely to the Sanskrit Prachya, for here he uses [x]. And it appears that [x] should be substituted for [x] in Stephan. Byzant., since it comes between the words [x] and [x]. — Schwanbeck, p. 82, not. 6.]

... who are an Indian people, Megasthenes says there are apes not inferior in size to the largest dogs. They have tails five cubits long, hair grown on their forehead, and they have luxuriant beards hanging down their breast. Their face is entirely white, and all the rest of the body black. They are tame and attached to man, and not malicious by nature like the apes of other countries.  
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Re: Ancient India as Described by Megasthenes and Arrian

Postby admin » Fri Jul 09, 2021 6:09 am

Fragm. XIV.

Aelian, Hist. Anim. XVI. 41. Conf. Fragm. XII. 4.

Of Winged Scorpions and Serpents.


Megasthenes says there are winged scorpions in India of enormous size, which sting Europeans and natives alike. There are also serpents which are likewise winged. These do not go abroad during the day, but by night, when they let fall urine, which if it lights upon any one's skin at once raises putrid sores thereon. Such is the statement of Megasthenes.
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Re: Ancient India as Described by Megasthenes and Arrian

Postby admin » Fri Jul 09, 2021 6:13 am

Fragm. XV.

Strabo, XV. i. 56,— pp. 710-711.

Of the Beasts of India, and the Reed.


He (Megasthenes) says there are monkeys, rollers of rocks, which climb precipices whence they roll down stones upon their pursuers. 2 Most animals, he says, which are tame with us are wild in India, and he speaks of horses which are one-horned and have heads like those of deer; 3 and also of reeds some of which grow straight up to the height of thirty orguioe,*...

[*The orguia was four cubits, or equal to 6 feet 1 inch.]

... while others grow along the ground to the length of fifty. They vary in thickness from three to six cubits in diameter.

Image
A deer with a single horn in the center of its head — much like the fabled, mythical unicorn — has been spotted in a nature preserve in Italy...

-- Not a unicorn, but Italian deer has a uni-horn, by Marta Falconi
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Re: Ancient India as Described by Megasthenes and Arrian

Postby admin » Fri Jul 09, 2021 6:21 am

Fragm. XV.B.

Aelian, Hist. Anim. XVI. 20. 21. Conf. Fragm. XV. 2. 1.

Of some Beasts of India.


(20.) In certain districts of India (I speak of those which are most inland) they say there are inaccessible mountains infested by wild beasts, and which are also the haunts of animals like those of our own country except that they are wild; for even sheep, they say, run wild there, as well as dogs and goats and oxen, which roam about at their own pleasure, being independent and free from the dominion of the herdsman. That their number is beyond calculation is stated not only by writers on India, but also by the learned men of the country, among whom the Brachmans deserve to be reckoned, whose testimony is to the same effect. It is also said that there exists in India a one-horned animal, called by the natives the Kartazon. It is of the size of a full-grown horse, and has a crest, and yellow hair soft as wool. It is furnished with very good legs, and is very fleet. Its legs are jointless and formed like those of the elephant, and it has a tail like a swine's. A horn sprouts out from between its eyebrows, and this is not straight, but curved into the most natural wreaths, and is of a black colour. It is said to be extremely sharp, this horn. The animal, as I learn, has a voice beyond all example loud-ringing and dissonant. It allows other animals to approach it, and is good-natured towards them, though they say that with its congeners it is rather quarrelsome. The males are reported to have a natural propensity not only to fight among themselves, by butting with their horns, but to display a like animosity against the female, and to be so obstinate in their quarrels that they will not desist till a worsted rival is killed outright. But, again, not only is every member of the body of this animal endued with great strength, but such is the potency of its horn that nothing can withstand it. It loves to feed in secluded pastures, and wanders about alone, but at the rutting season it seeks the society of the female, and is then gentle towards her, — nay, the two even feed in company. The season being over and the female pregnant, the Indian Kartazon again becomes ferocious and seeks solitude. The foals, it is said, are taken when quite young to the king of the Prasii, and are set to fight each other at the great public spectacles. No full-grown specimen is remembered to have ever been caught.

(21.) The traveller who crosses the mountains which skirt that frontier of India which is most inland meets, they say, with ravines which are clothed with very dense jungle, in a district called by the Indians Korouda.*

[*V.L. [x].]

These ravines are said to be the haunts of a peculiar kind of animal shaped like a satyr, covered all over with shaggy hair, and having a tail like a horse's, depending from its rump. If these creatures are left unmolested, they keep within the coppices, living on the wild fruits; but should they hear the hunter's halloo and the baying of the hounds they dart up the precipices with incredible speed, for they are habituated to climbing the mountains. They defend themselves by rolling down stones on their assailants, which often kill those they hit. The most difficult to catch are those which roll the stones. Some are said to have been brought, though with difficulty and after long intervals, to the Prasii, but these were either suffering from diseases or were females heavy with young, the former being too weak to escape, and the latter being impeded by the burden of the womb. — Conf. Plin. Hist. Nat. VII. 2. 17.
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Re: Ancient India as Described by Megasthenes and Arrian

Postby admin » Fri Jul 09, 2021 6:47 am

Fragm. XVI.

Pliny, Hist. Nat. VIII. 14. 1.

Of the Boa-Constrictor.


According to Megasthenes, serpents in India grow to such a size that they swallow stags and bulls whole.

Solinus, 52. 33.

So huge are the serpents that they swallow stags whole, and other animals of equal size.
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