"Murderous" James Comey in Herr Dictator's Crosshairs, Again. The People Respond for Mr. Comey: "Fuck off, asshole. Die in a ditch!" [No lethal threat intended.]
Go die in a ditch. Related to go die in a hole, except more hostile. Both are mainly used in the south when someone is pissed off, or used as a comeback. The reason for it being more hostile is because someone in undertext is telling you to get hit by a hurricane or tornado.
Former FBI director James Comey is being investigated by the Secret Service after he shared then deleted a social media post, which Republicans alleged was an incitement to violence against US President Donald Trump.
Comey posted on Instagram a photo of seashells that spelled the numbers "8647", which he captioned: "Cool shell formation on my beach walk."
The number 86 is a slang term whose definitions include "to reject" or "to get rid of", according to the Merriam-Webster dictionary, which also notes that it has more recently been used as a term meaning "to kill". And Trump is the 47th US president
Comey insisted he did not know what the numbers mean,, but Trump has disputed that.
James Comey had a tumultuous tenure as FBI director, and has clashed with Donald Trump.
Comey deleted the Instagram post, saying in a follow-up that he "assumed [the sea shells] were a political message".
"I didn't realise some folks associate those numbers with violence," he added. "It never occurred to me but I oppose violence of any kind so I took the post down."
But Trump argued that "a child knows what that meant".
"That meant assassination, and it says it loud and clear," Trump told Fox News in an interview, clips of which were released before broadcast on Friday. "Now, he wasn't very competent, but he was competent enough to know what that meant."
In a post in X, Secret Service spokesman Anthony Guglielmi said: "We vigorously investigate anything that can be taken as a potential threat against our protectees.
"We are aware of the social media posts by the former FBI Director & we take rhetoric like this very seriously. Beyond that, we do not comment on protective intelligence matters."
"Cool shell formation," Comey commented before deleting the post
Trump survived two assassination attempts last year. [??]
Current FBI Director Kash Patel responded on social media, saying that the bureau was "aware of the recent social media post by former FBI Director James Comey, directed at President Trump".
"We are in communication with the Secret Service and Director Curran. Primary jurisdiction is with SS [Secret Service] on these matters and we, the FBI, will provide all necessary support."
Secretary of Homeland Security Kristi Noem said on X: "Disgraced former FBI Director James Comey just called for the assassination of Trump."
She said her department and the Secret Service would investigate the matter.
White House Deputy Chief of Staff Dan Scavino posted on X, accusing Comey of "a plea to bad actors/terrorists to assassinate the POTUS' while traveling internationally", referring to Trump's current tour of the Middle East.
The president's eldest son, Donald Trump Jr, also responded on X, commenting: "James Comey causally [sic] calling for my dad to be murdered."
Comey served as the FBI's director between 2013-17.
He had a tumultuous tenure that included overseeing the high-profile inquiry into Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton's email just weeks before the 2016 election that she ended up losing to Trump.
He was fired by Trump amid an investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election.
Trump Administration Officials Become Hysterical At Social Media Post of Former FBI Director Comey by Glenn Kirschner May 16, 2025
Former FBI Director James Comey posted a picture on Instagram of seashells on a beach arranged into the numbers "8647."
Several Trump officials broke into hysterics, claiming that Comey intended the post as a threat. One prominent official, showing her disregard for the rule of law, the rules of criminal procedure, law and the Constitution, announced that Comey should be put "behind bars" apparently without an investigation, indictment, jury trial and verdict.
And Trump expressed his outrage, saying that "a child" would know that Comey's post was a threat.
The problem is, the dictionary definition of "86" does not support Trump and company's claims. Moreover, the criminal law requires a threat to be clear, direct, unambiguous, and unequivocal to potentially support criminal charges, as this video discusses.
Transcript
So friends have you seen the histrionics of some of the Trump administration officials over an Instagram post by former FBI director James Comey let's talk about that because justice matters [Music] Hey all Glenn Kirschner here So friends former FBI director James Comey posted a picture on Instagram of seashells on a beach that somebody had arranged to display four numbers 8647 And the Trump administration went apoplectic claiming that James Comey courtesy of that photo that he posted on Instagram has threatened Donald Trump Now friends I work threats cases as a prosecutor and we'll talk in a minute about the kind of evidence necessary to bring a criminal charge against someone for communicating a threat But let's start with the new reporting This from ABC News Headline Trump blasts former FBI director James Comey over controversial Instagram post And that article begins "President Donald Trump lashed out Friday against ex FBI Director James Comey over an Instagram post that contained an image that top Trump officials claimed was a threat." In a now deleted Instagram post Comey showed a photo of 8647 written in seashells in sand with the caption "Cool shell formation on my beachwalk." Some far-right allies of Trump including Laura Loomer have alleged that Comey is calling for violence against the president to 86 something however has fairly broad interpretations as a slang meaning and can simply mean to nyx or get rid of something According to Marryiam Webster Comey says he figured the message in the shell's placement was political but said he didn't realize it called for violence against Trump "It never occurred to me but I oppose violence of any kind," Comey said in another post on Instagram Trump however told Fox News Channel's special report with Brett Bearer Friday that he wasn't buying Comey's explanation This quote from Trump quote he knew exactly what that meant A child knows what that meant If you're the FBI director and you don't know what that meant that meant assassination the president said noting that Comey apologized Trump said "Well he apologized because he was hit He's a very bad guy," Trump said Homeland Security Secretary Christy Gnome said Thursday in an ex post that the US Secret Service is looking into Comey's post Quote "Disgraced former FBI Director James Comey just called for the assassination of POTUS Trump." She said FBI Director Kash Patel also said he was aware of the post and he was providing support to Gnome's efforts because of course Kash Patel was director of national intelligence Tulsi Gabbard called for Comey to be imprisoned. So friends just think for a minute about [i]the lawlessness of what Tulsi Gabbard proposes[/i.] Her position is apparently there is no need for a criminal investigation There's no need for an indictment There's no need for a jury trial There's no need for a verdict Just march James Comey directly into a jail cell To hell with the rule of law to hell with the constitutional protections like of due process of law Of course it's no surprise that that is the approach of a Trump administration official. To hell with the Constitution, or the protections it affords everyone, including James Comey
But let's talk for a minute about what it takes to charge somebody with the crime of communicating a threat. Generally speaking, the threat the words or in this case the number 86. We're going to talk about that in a minute. The threat needs to be clear direct unambiguous unequivocal. Some threats statutes even require evidence of a present intent or ability to follow through with the threat. So when you're dealing with a number 86. the logical place to start is the accepted dictionary definition.
What does 86 mean well the Merriam Webster dictionary definition of 86 verb to refuse to serve a customer as a bartender telling a customer "Hey you're 86. You're cut off. No more drinks for you." To eject, dismiss, or remove someone, as in he was 86 from Twitter following outrage from other users. Here's another common definition. To remove an item from a menu, to no longer offer an item to customers as in many small restaurants or bars may run into issues with their inventory. When there are not enough ingredients left to make a popular dish, or drink, they'll have to 86 it. This prevents the customers from ordering it, and then getting upset.
Here's another accepted dictionary definition. Democratic leaders 86'd an amendment introduced in the House version of the bill.
And let's just do one more friends. After attempting a Zoom interview, that had them sounding as garbled as the off-camera adults in a peanut special, we 86'd the audio on our computers, and talked on the phone.
Well friends, isn't it interesting that none of those accepted dictionary definitions of the number 86 involve violence of any kind? And yet Donald Trump says even a child knows what that meant. Well, only if that child never bothered to look at a dictionary to see what 86 actually means. But you know, there actually is a post that comes to mind that was a pretty vivid and direct depiction of violence and it was this Remember when Donald Trump posted a picture of himself holding a baseball bat mid swing appearing to swing it in the direction of the man who was prosecuting him Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg with Bragg having his hands up seeming to be in a defensive posture?
And do you remember the reporting about that post headline Trump posts disturbing baseball bat photo with Alvin Bragg threatens death and destruction Donald Trump on Friday threatened death and destruction if he's criminally charged in New York writing the shocking social media warning after posting an image of himself holding a baseball bat next to Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg's head This quote from Trump quote "They are human scum." The 76-year-old former president raged in one post asking why Bragg refuses to do the right thing and call it a day CNN legal analyst Norm Eisen tweeted that threatening a prosecutor is a crime in New York In fact multiple crimes And friends even Jonathan Turley who seems to forever defend Donald Trump in knee-jerk fashion regardless of what Trump says or does George Washington University Law Professor Jonathan Turley who testified for Trump's defense during his first impeachment for pressuring Ukraine to investigate the Biden family has repeatedly sought to warn the former president off threatening postings saying quote "Many of us have criticized the reported indictment as deeply flawed and politically motivated." Turley tweeted Friday However that will be addressed by the courts The rule of law will be protected by the bench not the bat in our constitutional system On Thursday Turley blasted Trump for writing in all caps "Our country is being destroyed as they tell us to be peaceful." quote "Given the violence on January 6th and riots in various cities our leaders have to avoid reckless rhetoric." Turley wrote "Being peaceful is not just a legal obligation but a civic duty of citizens." Wow when Jonathan Turley is criticizing Trump You know friends I think it pretty unlikely that we will see James Comey charged with communicating a threat But if Pam Bondi's DOJ tries to pull that crap then there's a good chance that the DOJ lawyers who have their fingerprints on a Comey indictment will run the risk of being referred to their state bar for an ethics investigation because not bringing baseless vindictive prosecutions like justice matters Friends as always please stay safe Please stay tuned And I look forward to talking with you all again tomorrow [Music]
Donald Trump shares disturbing baseball bat photo after posting chilling threat. Donald Trump posted an image of himself holding a baseball bat next to a picture of Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg as he awaits the grand jury's decision to arrest him or not by Christopher Bucktin, United States Editor and Liam Buckler, Senior News Reporter Mirror 17:53, 24 Mar 2023 Updated 17:53, 24 Mar 2023 https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/d ... l-29544713
Donald Trump has posted a disturbing picture of him holding a baseball bat (Image: AFP/Getty Images)
Donald Trump posted a disturbing baseball bat photo after he threatened "death and destruction" if he's charged over hush-money paid to porn star Stormy Daniels.
Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg's grand jury is still to determine whether the former president should face criminal charges over a $130,000 (£105,000) to Ms Daniels.
But in a series of recent posts on Friday, Mr Trump posted a bizarre image of himself holding a baseball bat next to a picture of Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg’s head.
He wrote: “They are HUMAN SCUM!” before asking why Mr Bragg “refuses to do the right thing and ‘call it a day?’”
The post was criticised by social media users who are concerned with the former president's recent posts.
Trump has warned of “potential death & destruction” if he's charged next week in the Stormy Daniels hush-money case(Image: Getty Images)
Jennifer Taub tweeted: “This threat is obstruction of justice and is a dangerous call to violence. Everyone needs to speak out.”
Meanwhile, Legal analyst Norm Eisen said threatening a prosecutor in New York is a crime - and carries multiple offences.
He tweeted: “Threatening a prosecutor is a crime in NY. In fact, MULTIPLE crimes: Harassment in the first degree NYPL 240.25; menacing in the second degree NYPL 120.14; stalking in the fourth or third degree NYPL 120.45 & 120.50 And that’s just for starters….”
In an earlier unhinged rant on Friday Mr Trump threatened "death and destruction" if he was arrested over the payment to Ms Daniels.
He wrote on his Truth Social media page: “What kind of person can charge another person, in this case a former President of the United States,” he said.
"Who got more votes than any sitting President in history, and leading candidate (by far!) for the Republican Party nomination, with a crime, when it is known by all that NO Crime has been committed, & also known that potential death & destruction in such a false charge could be catastrophic for our country?”
Trump has labelled the Manhattan District Attorney a “degenerate psychopath” (Image: Getty Images)
In an earlier post, the businessman slammed his critics who demanded his supporters remain peaceful.
He wrote: “EVERYBODY KNOWS I’M 100% INNOCENT, INCLUDING BRAGG.
“BUT HE DOESN’T CARE. HE IS JUST CARRYING OUT THE PLANS OF THE RADICAL LEFT LUNATICS. OUR COUNTRY IS BEING DESTROYED, AS THEY TELL US TO BE PEACEFUL!”
Mr Trump's recent comments have led to the porn star attracting a number of furious tweets from his supporters who claim she's damaging his 2024 presidential bid if the 76-year-old is arrested.
One user tweeted at her: "A disgusting degenerate prostitute accepts money to frame an innocent man! you're f**ked! Good luck walking down the streets after this!
"Trump's our #POTUS and will be selected by a landslide in 2024!"
The porn star hit back at the tweet replying: "'Sooo... tiny paid me to frame himself? You sound even dumber than he does during his illiterate ramblings.'
'"I won't walk, I'll dance down the street when he is "selected" to go to jail."
Mehdi Hasan @mehdirhasan zeteo 5:58 AM May 16, 2025
Trump posted a picture of Biden bound in the back of a truck, and multiple Republican and conservative allies of yours (Matt Gaetz, Jack Posobiec) posted the term 86, the latter in relation to Biden. So, sit this one out.
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
3/28/24 LONG ISLAND, NEW YORK ...
Mike Lee @BasedMikeLee May 15 What is Trump had posted "8646" one year ago today?
They'd have tried -- once again -- to throw him in prison
Can anyone deny that?
5:58 AM May 16, 2025
Impeach Biden 86 46 Impeach 46 8646 Fire Biden Anti Biden T-Shirt
MAGA crackdown: Ari Melber on Comey’s chilling warning about mob tactics, free speech BY Ari Melber MSNBC May 19, 2025 #SecretService #JamesComey #Trump
The Secret Service is questioning former FBI Director James Comey for a social media post that several U.S. officials interpreted as violence against President Donald Trump. MSNBC’s Ari Melber reports on how the administration is falling in line with Trump’s retribution goals.
Transcript
>> WE BEGIN WITH THAT TRUMP CRACKDOWN ON FREE SPEECH. REALLY NO OTHER WAY TO SEE IT JAMES COMEY'S INTERVIEW WITH NICOLE WALLACE, WHICH WE WERE JUST DISCUSSING AND OF COURSE, WRAPPED UP JUST ABOUT HALF AN HOUR AGO, LAYS OUT HOW HE SAYS THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS TRYING TO SCRUTINIZE WHAT IS PROTECTED SPEECH OR IN COMEY'S CASE, AND WE'RE GOING TO SHOW YOU EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID, SPEECH THAT IN NO WAY HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH, HE SAYS, ANY VIOLENT OR ILLEGAL INTENT. AND YET, THE FBI DIRECTOR WHO. SERVED UNTIL TRUMP FIRED HIM IS NOW BEING QUESTIONED BY THE SECRET SERVICE. COMEY, RECOUNTING TWO INVESTIGATIVE INTERVIEWS HE'S DONE WITH THE SECRET SERVICE. HE CALLED THEM PROFESSIONAL, BUT HE ALSO COMPLETELY OPPOSES AND DEBUNKS WHAT IS THE REASON OR PREDICATE FOR THIS CURRENT PROBE. THE CLAIM THAT HIS POST OF A PHOTOGRAPH OF SEASHELLS SPELLING OUT 8647 COULD BE LOGICALLY CONSTRUED AS A CALL TO VIOLENCE. >> I THOUGHT, WHAT A CLEVER WAY TO EXPRESS A POLITICAL VIEW. THE SHELLS WERE THE SAME COLOR FOR EACH OF THE LETTERS, SO DIFFERENT COLORS FOR THE LETTERS. IT TOOK A LOT OF WORK. SOMEBODY WITH ARTISTIC FLAIR DID THAT, AND I HAVE A HARD TIME BELIEVING IT WAS ANYBODY WITH A DARK INTENTION. AND IT CERTAINLY WAS NO DARK INTENTION ON MY PART AND MY SPOUSE'S PART. >> COMEY, SPEAKING CAREFULLY ABOUT THAT EXACT MATTER. AND HE IS, OF COURSE, NOT ONLY THE FORMER FBI DIRECTOR, HE WAS A LONGTIME LAWYER AND PROSECUTOR HIMSELF. SO HE UNDERSTANDS THAT WHEN YOU'RE IN THIS SITUATION, YOU DO HAVE TO ADDRESS THE CLAIM, HOWEVER THIN THE FACTS MAY BE. HE ALSO NOTED THAT 86 IS FAIRLY OLD SLANG THAT USUALLY REFERS TO REMOVING AN ITEM OR A SHOP BEING SOLD OUT OF IT. PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS NOT HID HIS DESIRE TO TARGET MANY PERCEIVED OPPONENTS WITH A RANGE OF SO-CALLED INVESTIGATIONS, OR THREATENING ARRESTS, OR EVEN INDICTMENT AND JAIL, AND THE EVIDENCE HERE IS THAT THIS IS AN EFFORT TO CRACK DOWN ON FREE SPEECH RATHER THAN, SAY, A FREE WHEELING LAW ENFORCEMENT EFFORT TO JUST MAKE PEOPLE SAFER. NOW, IF YOU HAVE SELECTIVE PROSECUTION, THAT IS MORE THAN JUST SOMEONE CALLING FOR IT, BUT SOMEONE BEING INDICTED ON, SAY, TARGETED GROUNDS, NOT BASED ON THE LAW. WELL, THAT ITSELF CAN BE TOSSED OUT OR ILLEGAL. IN COMEY'S CASE. WE HAVE THE EXTRA LAYER HERE, AN EFFORT THAT WOULD APPEAR TO TRY TO TURN THE VERY LAW ENFORCEMENT LEADER WHO STOOD UP TO TRUMP MEMORABLY INTO SOME KIND OF PROCLAIMED ALLEGED CRIMINAL TIED TO VIOLENCE THROUGH THE LINK OF SEASHELLS. NOW, TRUMP ALREADY BROKE THE TRADITIONAL TEN YEAR TERM TRADITION FOR FBI DIRECTORS WHEN HE FIRED COMEY, AND HE ADMITTED, QUITE INFAMOUSLY, THAT HE VIEWED IT AS LINKED TO OR POTENTIAL ALLEGED RETALIATION FOR COMEY OVERSEEING PROBES THAT TOUCHED ON TRUMP OR HIS AIDES. THAT'S THE FBI'S JOB, OF COURSE, WHEN WARRANTED. TRUMP THEN APPOINTED A NEW FBI DIRECTOR TO REPLACE HIM AND ANOTHER ONE TO REPLACE THAT ONE WHEN HE CAME BACK INTO OFFICE THIS YEAR. THAT DIRECTOR NOW CRITICIZING COMEY WHILE SUGGESTING THAT IT MIGHT BE TOO LATE TO DIG INTO ANY PAST ALLEGED CONDUCT FROM COMEY'S TIME IN OFFICE. >> YOU MENTIONED COMEY, STRZOK AND THE REST. THEY'VE GOT TV SHOWS, THEY'VE GOT MEDIA PLATFORMS. THEY'RE FINE. THERE'S BEEN NO ACCOUNTABILITY. >> WELL, LOOK, IT'S A FAIR CRITICISM. BUT WHAT I WILL TELL PEOPLE IS WE WEREN'T HERE IN THE FBI IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS WHEN WE HAD STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS THAT WERE STILL IN PLAY, WHERE WE COULD HAVE INVESTIGATED CRIMINAL CONDUCT. MOST OF THE STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS ARE FIVE YEARS OLD, AND WE WILL INVESTIGATE CRIMINAL CONDUCT WHERE WE FIND A RIGHTEOUS CASE TO DO SO. AND THE LAW AND THE FACTS ALLOW US TO. >> SO THAT'S YOUR CURRENT DIRECTOR TALKING ABOUT THE PAST. BUT COMEY'S SEASHELL POST IS BRAND NEW. IT MAY SOUND LIKE QUITE A THIN BASIS TO GO AFTER HIM, TO INTERVIEW HIM IN THE SECRET SERVICE, TO RAISE ALL OF THIS NOISE FACTUALLY AND LEGALLY. BUT WHEN YOU SEE THE NEW TRUMP FBI DIRECTOR, NEW AS OF THIS YEAR, TALKING ABOUT HOW SOME THINGS ARE TOO OLD, THIS ONE DOES PROVIDE THIS NEW HOOK FOR AIDES TO THEN FOLLOW TRUMP'S MANY DEMANDS TO GO AFTER COMEY. HE'S LONG BLASTED HIM ONLINE. HE DID IT AGAIN THIS WEEKEND WHILE SAYING THERE SHOULD BE INVESTIGATIONS OF OTHERS WHO'VE EXERCISED FREE SPEECH OR OTHERWISE OPPOSED TRUMP'S ELECTION. THAT INCLUDES ARTISTS LIKE BEYONCE OR SPRINGSTEEN PUSHING CALLS BY REPOSTING SOMETHING THAT REFERS TO AN ILLEGAL MILITARY TRIBUNAL THAT COULD BE CONVENED FOR FORMER PRESIDENT OBAMA THERE. AS YOU CAN SEE, THE DAILY BEAST CALLED IT A DERANGED OBAMA MEME TIED TO YOU ARE SEEING HERE, IF IT WASAT CARRIED OUT, IS NOT LEGAL. IT'S NOT CONSTITUTIONAL. YOU CANNOT INDICT OR PUNISH FREE SPEECH BECAUSE THE CALLS, WHETHER THEY'RE CARRIED OUT OR NOT, ARE COMING FROM THE PRESIDENT, WHO HAS HIS OWN OATH OF OFFICE TO UPHOLD, UPHOLD THE CONSTITUTION, WHICH BEGINS WITH THE FIRST AMENDMENT. AND YET THE PRESIDENT IS CALLING ON HIS AIDES OR OTHERS TO BASICALLY ABUSE FEDERAL POWER, GO AFTER PEOPLE FOR WHAT EXACTLY? FOR EXERCISING FREE SPEECH IN MANY CASES, WHICH IS A RIGHT PROTECTED BY THE CONSTITUTION, WHICH IS ESSENTIAL TO DEMOCRACY. THERE CAN'T BE FREE ELECTIONS IF ONE SIDE IS TOTALLY MUZZLED OR AFRAID TO TALK, OR ARRESTED AND PROSECUTED FOR EXERCISING FREE SPEECH. AND THERE ARE MANY COUNTRIES WHERE YOU CAN SEE THAT DECLINE AND HOW IT GOES. I MENTIONED THOSE ARTISTS WHO SIMPLY SPOKE OUT OR ENDORSED A CANDIDATE OPPOSED TO THE CURRENT GOVERNMENT. IN OTHER CASES, YOU HAVE THE CLAIM THAT THERE MIGHT BE SOME CRIMINAL CONDUCT. IN OTHER WORDS, THE ARGUMENT WOULD BE, WELL, IT'S NOT JUST FREE SPEECH. IF YOU THINK COMEY WAS USING SEASHELL CODE, THAT MEANS WHATEVER TRUMP OR THE GOVERNMENT SAYS IT MEANS. NOW, MANY HAVE AT TIMES MINIMIZED DONALD TRUMP'S LONG ESTABLISHED RECORD IN THIS AREA. YOU'LL HEAR TALK ABOUT IT'S JUST HIS TONE. OR DON'T TAKE HIM LITERALLY, OR HE EXAGGERATES. OR THAT EVEN IF IT SOUNDS BAD, THE SYSTEM WILL RESPOND AND HOLD HIM BACK AND HOLD THE LINE. BUT AS NICOLLE WALLACE NOTED DURING TODAY'S INTERVIEW, SOME KEY PARTS OF THE SYSTEM ARE NOW FOLDING AND FOLDING WORSE AND DIFFERENTLY THAN IN, SAY, THE FIRST TERM. THAT INCLUDES WALL STREET LAW FIRMS, SOME OF THEM SURRENDERING TO TRUMP ORDERS, WHICH LOOKED UNLAWFUL WHEN ISSUED. AND TO BE CLEAR, SINCE THEY WERE ISSUED, SOME OF THEM HAVE ALREADY BEEN PAUSED IN COURT. WE HAVEN'T YET GOTTEN A FINAL RESOLUTION ON WHETHER YOU CAN TARGET INDIVIDUAL COMPANIES, BANKERS OR LAWYERS JUST BECAUSE YOU DISAGREE WITH THEM, BUT MOST PRECEDENTS RUNS AGAINST IT. I WANT YOU TO LISTEN RIGHT NOW TO WHAT COMEY SAID WITH A SHARP WARNING ON THAT VERY ISSUE ON MSNBC TODAY.
>> [JAMES COMEY] WE'VE SEEN LAW FIRMS KNUCKLE UNDER, AND THAT IS A VERY BAD THING. THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE DONE THAT. NOW, IN FAIRNESS, THOSE FIRMS -- PEOPLE SHOULDN'T THINK OF THEM AS LAWYERS, THEY'RE MOSTLY BANKERS THAT DOMINATE THOSE BIG FIRMS. THEY MUST HAVE NEVER SEEN A MOB MOVIE. BECAUSE YOU GIVE THE MOB A PIECE OF YOUR BAR, THE FIRST THING THEY DO IS BRING IN THEIR FRIENDS TO DRINK FOR FREE AND THEN BURN IT DOWN FOR THE INSURANCE. THEY WILL BE SORRY THEY MADE A DEAL WITH THIS ADMINISTRATION.
[ARI MELBER] GIVING IN SHOWS WEAKNESS. WEAKNESS INVITES MORE ABUSE, AND THEY'LL KEEP ROUGHING YOU UP. THAT'S COMEY'S VERY SPECIFIC COMPARISON TO WHAT THESE FIRMS OR BANKERS GAVE INTO. NOW, THESE TARGETED INSTITUTIONS HAVE TO DECIDE THIS IN REAL TIME. SOME, LIKE HARVARD, ARE FIGHTING. AND THEY FOUND PRETTY QUICKLY THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION BEGAN TO SLIGHTLY BACK OFF. THERE WAS SOME MOMENT WHERE THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION SAID, WELL, WE DIDN'T NECESSARILY MEAN THAT IT WAS A MISTAKE IN EMAIL AFTER PICKING THAT FIGHT. OTHERS, THOUGH, WEIGHING HOW TO FOLD OR SETTLE CASES. NEWS ORGANIZATIONS ALSO HAVE DEBATED HOW TO HANDLE THESE TRUMP LAWSUITS. COMING FROM A VERY VINDICTIVE CURRENT, PRESIDENT COMEY'S WARNING ABOUT THE DANGER OF THOSE DEALS ACTUALLY ECHOES IN ALL OF THESE AREAS, BECAUSE TRUMP HAS GOTTEN SOME NEWS ORGANIZATIONS OR THEIR PARENT COMPANIES TO SETTLE TO PAY HIM, BUT THEN HE JUST WANTS MORE. FOR EXAMPLE, HE IS NOW THREATENING OR VOWING TO POTENTIALLY SUE ABC NEWS FOR WHAT LOOKS LIKE JOURNALISM THAT REPORTING ON QATAR'S CONTROVERSIAL PROPOSED GIFT OF A $400 MILLION PLANE. THAT JET STORY HAS GOTTEN A LOT OF TRACTION, TRUMP SAYS. THE NETWORK, OF COURSE, ALSO HE MENTIONS RECENTLY DID THIS MULTIMILLION DOLLAR SETTLEMENT WITH HIM OVER OTHER DEFAMATION CLAIMS. NOW, ABC'S REPORTING ON THAT JET GIFT IDEA HAS PROVEN IMPACTFUL. TRUMP ON THE RECORD INITIALLY ACKNOWLEDGED THE TRUTH OF PARTS OF IT AND DEFENDED TAKING THE JET. NOW THEN OF COURSE, IT'S BECOME A BIG SCANDAL. IT'S COST HIM REPUBLICAN SUPPORT AND CRITICISM, AND MAYBE HE'S STARTING TO LOOK AT IT DIFFERENTLY. IF HE'S GOING AFTER ONE OF THE OUTLETS THAT REPORTED THE THING THAT HE SAID HE WANTS, HE WANTS THE JET, HE SAID HE SAID HE'D BE STUPID NOT TO TAKE IT. BUT THE POINT TONIGHT WITH THE COMEY OF IT ALL IS THAT ABC IS FACING LEGAL HEAT. OVER THIS AFTER SETTLING BEFORE, AND THAT'S SOMETHING PEOPLE WARN THEM ABOUT EVEN BEFORE COMEY TODAY. HERE'S AN ARTICLE FROM A LEGAL PUBLICATION THAT SUGGESTED THEN A SETTLEMENT WITH TRUMP WOULD SET A BAD PRECEDENT IN THESE UNCERTAIN TIMES. AND NOW HE'S GOING RIGHT BACK AFTER THEM, WHICH PLAYS OUT THE COMEY WARNING, YOU SETTLE, YOU GIVE IN, YOU PAY A LOT OVER ONE THING, BUT YOU GOT TO GET UP THE NEXT DAY AND REPORT THE NEWS. YOU MAY FIND YOURSELF GETTING ATTACKED AS THE ONE WHO'S MORE LIKELY TO SETTLE OR FACING THAT PERCEPTION. AND OBVIOUSLY WE ARE NOT REPORTING OUT THAT ENTIRE CASE OR SECOND GUESSING EVERY ASPECT OF IT. FRANKLY, THE DETAILS ARE COMPLEX, BUT THE POINT SEEMS CLEAR. SETTLING WITH THAT PARTICULAR PLAINTIFF DID NOT QUIET THAT PLAINTIFF FROM GOING RIGHT BACK ON THE ATTACK AND THREATENING ANOTHER LAWSUIT. NOW, TRUMP IS DOING ALL THIS AMIDST PUSHBACK. THE SUPREME COURT DEALT HIM THAT BIG LOSS ON FRIDAY, WHICH BLOCKS THE CLAIMED WAR POWERS FOR DEPORTATIONS. TRUMP ROUNDED OUT THIS WEEKEND WITH CALLS FOR WHAT SOUND LIKE LIKELY ILLEGAL GOVERNMENT ACTIONS, SHARING A POST WITH MATERIAL THAT BASICALLY TALKS ABOUT AN IDEA THAT COULD ENDANGER THE LIVES OF THE SUPREME COURT JUSTICES WHO JUST CURBED HIS POWERS. ON FRIDAY, A SEEMINGLY BRAZEN MESSAGE THAT COMES AS HE CLAIMS THAT COMEY'S SEASHELLS WERE AN IMPROPER THREAT. BUT IT IS DONALD TRUMP SHARING THIS MESSAGE TO MANY FOLLOWERS, WHICH DISCUSSES AN IDEA OR A CLAIMED PIECE OF CONTENT BECAUSE HE'S SHARING IT RIGHT ABOUT RELEASING TERRORISTS NEAR WHERE THE SUPREME COURT JUSTICES LIVE NEAR THEIR HOMES. NOW, TRUMP'S AIDES, THEY KNOW THE DRILL. THIS DOES GO BACK TO THE FIRST TERM. THESE PUBLIC POSTS, WHETHER THEY'RE ON HIS CURRENT MEDIA PLATFORM OR BACK WHEN HE USEDS. SO I WANT TO BE CLEAR. THERE IS SOME GIVE AND TAKE HERE OVER THE YEARS. BUT WHAT WE'RE SEEING NOW IS TRUMP AIDES TESTING WHETHER THEY CAN GO FARTHER AND JUST DO A KIND OF WHOLESALE ABANDONMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT ON THE THINGS THAT THEY JUST DON'T CARE ABOUT OR WANT TO UNDERCUT. THAT'S FROM LAWS ON EQUAL RIGHTS TO SAFETY RULES. JUST STOP ENFORCING THEM WRIT LARGE. WHEN YOU LOOK AT THAT UP AGAINST OTHER AREAS WHERE TRUMP IS UNDER FIRE, OR CRITICISM FOR SELF-DEALING, FOR CRYPTO SCAMS, BUT THEN THEY PULL BACK ON CRYPTO ENFORCEMENT. THEN YOU LOOK AT HIM CALLING FOR THESE INVESTIGATIONS OR WORSE, AGAINST PEOPLE FOR EXERCISING THEIR FREE SPEECH, AND THEN D.O.J. IN AN ANNOUNCEMENT AND SOMETHING THAT WASN'T A BIG ANNOUNCEMENT, BUT THAT THE POST IS REPORTING SAYS, OH, MAYBE WE WANT FREER HAND TO GO AFTER POLITICIANS WITHOUT THESE LAYERS OF REVIEW. WHAT YOU SEE IS THIS AGENDA THAT SO MANY PEOPLE MINIMIZE OR SAID, DON'T WORRY ABOUT THAT IS ACTUALLY NOT
* George Mahe has spent most of his life immersed in the restaurant industry, owning and operating establishments before delving into food journalism. He began reviewing restaurants for St. Louis Magazine 35 years ago under the pseudonym “Arnie Boye” (a tribute to his dog) and became the magazine’s first dining editor in 1992. His fair and balanced approach spawned a local restaurant consulting company, and further ventures in ownership. In 2006, he returned to SLM. George spearheads the magazine’s dining coverage, curates the weekly Dining Out newsletter, and co-hosts the Arch Eats podcast. George lives in University City with his wife, Suzi. Send your dining questions to [email protected]
We’ve all heard the term “86,” indicating that a restaurant is out of something. Where did that term originate?—Jason R., St. Louis
Editor’s Note: This article was updated from an earlier version.
[James Comey] When I first asked that same question, I was told this: that the standard height of a door frame was 8 feet 6 inches, and when an obnoxious guest was shown the door, he was “86’d.” That pacified me until I later heard that it took 86 ladles to empty a pot of soup on an Army mess line. After that number of ladles, the soup was 86’d.
Then I did some research and realized the genesis of the term isn’t clear at all…
First, another soup pot reference. The term originated in the soup kitchens of the Great Depression, where the standard pot held 85 cups of soup, so the 86th person was out of luck.
Many say the term has military roots. The term originated during the Korean war, a reference to the F-86 fighter jet; when an F-86 shot down an enemy plane, it was 86’d.
The United States also has a Uniform Code of Military Justice that has an Article 86: Absence Without Leave, a.k.a AWOL.
The term was derived from military shorthand. Rotary phones had T on the 8 key and O on the 6 key, so to throw out (TO) something was to 86 it.
Or it may have originally been a bartender’s term. Alcohol in the Old West was 100 proof. When a patron would get too drunk, the barkeep would serve him a less potent, 86 proof liquor, thereby 86’ing him. The term may have come from Old Eighty-Six, a popular shaving powder in the old days. A pinch of that in a rowdy cowboy’s drink apparently would have him heading for the door.
Perhaps its origin lies in New York. Many stories back this up. There was a speakeasy bar at 86 Bedford Street in Greenwich Village called Chumley’s, with no address on the door and several hidden exits. When the heat showed up, guests were known to 86 it, or remove themselves from the premises immediately.
In the days before a safety fence was installed on the observation deck of the Empire State Building, people would commit suicide by jumping from it. The deck was on the 86th floor.
Apparently, there was a local code in New York, Code 86, that made it a crime for bartenders to serve drunken patrons. The bartenders would tell such patrons that sorry, they’d been 86’d.
One of the elevated trains in New York terminated at 86th Street, at which point the conductor would toss any drunks who had passed out on board. The conductor’s began calling them 86’s.
Some say it started in the 86th precinct of the NYC police dept. Supposedly, when officers in other precincts made repeated mistakes, the threat of being sent out to the mean and shorthanded 86th was enough to make them straighten up.
Others say it originated at Delmonico’s Restaurant in NYC. Number 86 on their menu was a steak, the most popular item on the menu and one that often sold out. The term morphed into shorthand for being out of any item.
Or was it a filmmaker’s term? Light filters are categorized by number, the darkest filter being a #85. The mythical 86 filter would therefore be totally dark, and completely negate the image being photographed, 86 it.
There are those who claim the term refers to 86 inches, the standard depth of a grave in the U.S. So to 86 something is to bury it.
Perhaps it was a holdover from the days when news was delivered via teletype. To expedite this process, coded numbers were used for common actions. A “30” indicated a completed story, for example. Apparently, when a story/item was sent in error or should be discarded, the number 86 was used.
Explanations even stretch as far as the electrical industry, where devices had numbers—a 27 was an undervoltage relay, 43 was a selector switch, and an 86 was a trip and lockout device, so an 86 operation means the affected piece of equipment was out of service.
Another theory says that the term originated with the number codes used by soda jerks: 86 was the code indicating they were out of an item.
And the list goes on.
So if anyone asks you where the term 86 originated, tell them what I tell people: I don’t really know, but there are about 86 theories.
If you have a question for George, email him at [email protected]. You can also follow him on Twitter @stlmag_dining. For more from SLM, subscribe or follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram.
Comey Reveals All: Trump's FBI Madness and The "86" Fiasco (w/ James Comey) The Bulwark May 23, 2025 Bulwark Super Feed
Public corruption used to be a congressman hiding $90,000 in his freezer. Now, we have a president taking "me time" to rake in $40 million from a Chinese crypto billionaire who was facing fraud charges under POTUS 46. And that's just a drop in the bucket of some of his recent haul. Of course, today's FBI will do nothing about it. Instead, his buddies at the top of the bureau are focusing on celebrities who are definitely not Team Trump, or a person who posted a benign beach meme about 47. Meanwhile, the FBI has been ordered to redirect resources to deportations, raising serious questions about whether counterterrorism and counterintelligence—the agency's main priorities since 9/11—are being neglected. James Comey joins Tim Miller for the weekend pod.
Transcript
i mean when someone yells you at me on the street I have to pause and say "Is that a Clintonian you or a Trumpian?" And I look for context clues and location and inflection and it's because people are trapped in their own bubbles hello and welcome to the Board Podcast i'm your host Tim Miller delighted to have back former director of the FBI from 2013 to 2017 he was a federal prosecutor in New York his latest legal thriller FDR Drive came out this week it's the third in a series it is Jim Comey what's going on man great to be with you Tim thanks for having me all right we got to start with the shells for The Rocks okay i mean I You made this happen not me I guess with the Instagram posting i get in trouble with some of my posts sometimes so I've been there uh tell what I I'm just trying to paint me a picture here i I know you've done a couple of interviews already.
So you're you're out you're with your wife you're on a beachwalk is it the morning are we in Bethany are we in Cape May what's what what's you know just you're an author now paint me a scene
[James Comey] Yeah we went to the coast of North Carolina we love the Outer Banks and Barrier Islands for the week before the book roll out thought it'd be a great time to get away think about the next book what I'm going to say and we went for a walk on Thursday afternoon of the week before publication and we were walking across a big piece of beach and as we got uh towards the end of our walk we saw in the sand some numbers and spelled out in shells and my wife said why would someone put their address in the sand so we stopped we both sort of turned our heads sideways and studied it and I said you know I think it's I think it's like a political message of some kind and she said oh yeah and then she explained to me that when she was a server which she did throughout school that 86 was a restaurant term and I said "No I don't know that i used to hear it as a kid we would say 86 this place when we were at a bar or a restaurant that was dull we want to go someplace else." So she said "Oh you should take a picture of that." I said "Cool." And I took a picture of it and then I posted on Instagram when we got back home and thought "No more of it." And I thought it was just a cool way for someone to express a political view and and then I heard later in that day that people were saying it was a threat to assassinate the president and I was like "Oh my god I've never heard 86 used in that context." Actually still haven't but I thought man I want no part of anything like that so I took it down immediately and posted a little statement explaining why I took it down and that's the Shell story
[Tim Miller] Got it and um were there other people around i guess when you're walking down the beach you're tall you're kind of famous are you getting are people trying to chat you up on these beach walks no that's the great thing is people at beach seem to at the beach seem to focus on uh the things they should focus on the water the waves their families they're not looking and I'm hardly a celeb but they're not looking for celebs and it was a big it's sort of the point area of a barrier island that has a gigantic collection of sand and so it's not crowded at all yeah are you are you into kind of resistance memes generally like are you usually are you posting are you getting are people sending you you know funny little funny little Instagram posts are you are you like into Instagram culture are you getting reals sent to you or was this was this a one-off yeah I I'm not a big Instagrammer i tend to post family stuff political stuff and book stuff last fall at the beach I saw something I thought was cool and I posted it which was someone had painted inside a big shell uh endorsement of Kla Harris so I remember posting that i'm not a big poster but when I see something that strikes me as funny or interesting I post it but sea shell politics is kind of one overlap for you you know yeah crime novels uh you know Reynold Neber like you just have a variety of interests and sea shell political art is one of it oh okay so you may see less of that in my future Instagram posts seems right seems advisable so the most insane part of all this I was listening to a couple of your other interviews it's like you literally had to go into the Secret Service over this like you went into the building like they called you in yeah they called me that night and I talked to an agent on the phone and he said "Look this may be the end of it but if if they want to do an in-person interview would you do that?" And I said "Of course." So just let me know what you want i'll be home tomorrow afternoon and they reached back out and said "Look when you get home uh we'd love to have you in for a personal interview." I said "Sure can you give me a ride?" Because I didn't want to be walking through a nothing against the media but didn't want to be walking through a bunch of cameras and so they came to my house gave me a ride said "You want to sit in the back or the front?" I said "I'd prefer to sit in the front." And so I sat in the front seat and they drove me into their garage we did the interview which wasn't long and then they drove me home i appreciate your good cheer about this i would not have good cheer this is insane like you you posted a picture of Seashells and like you you got driven into the Secret Service headquarters to get questioned like I mean did you feel like you needed a lawyer i mean it's it's it's silly but it's it's intimidation they were trying to intimidate you and maybe not the the actual person questioning you but up the chain they were trying to intimidate you yeah i don't know what was going on up the chain and so it's hard for me to say look the the guys I dealt with at Secret Service which has always been the case with them were total pros and they were going through their normal interview they do when there's anyone's alleged there's a threat and I just thought look I there's no conceivable basis for saying this was a threat but if they want to talk to me I'll talk to them and and that should be the end of it but I I can't speak to But you've been on the other side of the foot i mean I I this is not breaking news for you uh people have said nasty things about Jim Comey on the on the internet i'm not even saying you said nasty things people have posted memes that were critical of you on the internet like when you were FBI director in 2015 161 17 did you ever bring anybody did you ever ask anybody be brought in for questioning because you know they wrote you know James Comeyy's a cuck or whatever on on Pinterest like It is not the normal state of affairs right yeah look if I were the investigator I would think of it is this a credible threat is this term 86 something that's been used in movies or books in the past to convey some sense of violence and if the answer was no which I believe it is no I think that would have been the end of it but I don't know in the Trump administration what kind of pressure the investigators are operating under i appreciated that with me they acted like professionals i I got to imagine their lives are pretty difficult right now um I mean I think we have some evidence that they're in under pressure to investigate people i want to pull up here uh my colleague Sam Stein posted this yesterday so we have the DOJ is investigating Act Blue which is a Democratic fundraising operation ftc is investigating Media Matters which is a left-wing uh media outlet media monitoring outlet dhs is targeting Harvard uh the executive office is going after demolinded law firms and Chris Krebs and Miles Taylor a US attorney is charging a Dem lawmaker with a crime fbi is has arrested a liberal judge peter Baker put it this way leticia James Andrew Como Lmon Monica Macccyver Kamla Harris Bruce Springsteen Beyonce Bono Oprah Winfrey James Comey good company uh treasonous Biden aids the city of Chicago and the Kennedy Center have all been threatened with legal action by this administration so I mean I don't think we have to to read between the lines about what they're up to oh yeah and I want to draw a line under like Chris Krebs i mean the president issued an executive order saying he should be investigated so there's no doubt that the Trump administration is using the investigative powers of the executive branch to target people to frighten people to cow people there's no doubt that that's going on and that is a real problem i'm just saying in my case I I can't see what happened up the chain my interactions with the Secret Service were professional were routine in in the sense that they did it the way they would normally do it but what was behind that I don't know yeah i mean they came in talking about how they were going to depoliticize this and look I mean you've been through this more than anybody like some of these things are tough calls right uh you know and when you're the director of the FBI or at the DOJ and and and there is a president is of one party in the White House I assume that you know if you're going to be investigating or looking into a politician or a group that is opposed there you know there has to be some kind of bar standard right like it you're you were I assume particularly conscious of like trying to make the right call within the law and and I don't doesn't seem like there's any evidence that that's happening right now yeah you're absolutely right i mean it it's critical when you lead a justice agency so DOJ or FBI that both the reality and the perception of your institution be that you're operating without fear or favor and that when you gather facts you're not on anybody's team that is without that you're lost and that is draining away right now because it's clear they're taking actions based on who's on what team going after the president's enemies that's poison for confidence in justice institutions and confidence is everything all right i do I I want to get into what's going on in the FBI next but I do have to ask like do you think there's something about your nature that you end up in brewhahas such as this was like was this was your childhood like this where like you would just kind of be accidentally roaming through life and the next thing you know you're at the center of a controversy in the middle school yeah that was not my history growing up and so I don't know what it is but again it's it's been a long time right i haven't done an interview in a year it was the last time you and I were together yeah so look I I have so enjoyed being a grandfather and an author in t-shirts and jeans and frankly I was after the election in November I was thinking I'll just withdraw and so I I didn't plan any of this out but in a way it's been a useful kick in the pants to me and that is you can't withdraw and I'm a little embarrassed to admit I was trying to withdraw and the stupid sea shell thing in a way has said "No you you got to get back out there and speak." And so I'm gonna I I think I can talk about the rule of law um I wish I didn't have to but we all have to right now there's some theories online that this is that the sea shells is part of the book promo now my push back on this is that it would be so too stupid of the book promo like like you would I would hope that you would have come up with a better plan for creating controversy but can you can you rule that out that it was Yes I I unequivocally ruled that out yeah I think I would come up with a better plan it's honestly been a bit of a distraction not that I mind you talking about the seashells but I'm supposed to be out here for my publisher talking about We're going to get to the book we're going to get to FDR Drive we unfortunately we've got some other business um one of your uh successors here is uh Cash Patel um who uh you know is a conspiracy children's book author so it's an interesting choice for FBI director uh and his deputy Dan Benino is was one of my competitors in the podcast space so you never know i guess maybe deputy FBI director might be in my future um we will see i I'm wondering it's been a few months now and um how should I put this i I you know I don't have a ton of friends in the FBI i'm sure you have a ton of former colleagues people that worked for you former friends but you know I know people and there was when when the appointments were happening there was a lot of concern let's just say um and uh and and I'm wondering how you know kind of what the buzz is and what you're what you are hearing now a few months in uh from folks in and around the FBI they went through a period of trauma when the appointments are first made and Kosh Patel arrived and people were forced out at the same time really good career people the people who actually know how to run the FBI were forced out the head of the FBI's New York office who was widely admired was forced out for standing up and saying basically we're going to do our jobs the right way so that was a period of trauma for them i think they've now entered a kind of numb stage where they are I'm not speculating folks there have told me this they're just trying to keep their heads down and do the work and survive this accomplish the mission but try to do it in a way that headquarters isn't watching them or isn't interested in them that's that's sort of the a big part of the Hoover era people just wanted to do the work and make sure that Hoover didn't see what they were doing so they didn't get drawn into anything i think they've entered that phase and hoping that time goes quickly it's pretty alarming that they don't want attention from the FBI director for their FBI work you would you know in a healthy organization I would think it would be the opposite you would want That's right it's not It is not a healthy leadership style what about PE so some folks have been forced out as you pointed out like other folks like thinking about leaving i I guess what what are your concerns just about good people staying and doing the work well it's hard to cate categorize 38,000 people with you know in one place but the I think the the main feeling is they still love the work they know how fast three years and whatever we are 6 months can go by and they are planning on staying they're hoping not to be noticed to do the work and then there'll be a better time ahead that seems to be again my I have the selection bias in those that I talk to but that seems to be the feeling i do love that that that mindset about the fact that the time can go fast you know I was think my child just had her last day of first grade yesterday and I was like man first grade went fast so that that makes you positive and then you think about well she'll be in fifth grade or something when Trump is out of there so that makes it feel long so I don't you know different perspectives um like that there's a refocus towards immigration enforcement who knows what else election fraud a refocus away from public corruption maybe counter intel in certain cases like what is your sense of that like is are do you have concerns that you know maybe some of the focus and the resources are are being misapplied yes it's hard to see from the outside but I also wonder so how are they doing that the bureau since 9/11 11 has had a really sophisticated process to figure out what to work on it's called the threat review and prioritization process TRP where twice a year we would look across the country and say "So what are the bad things that could happen to America that we could do something about who's working on it already what would be good measurements of achievement against that threat and given those threats how would we rank them?" And then we do the same thing in each of the 56 field offices and then come up for each field office with a separate list of these are your priorities this is how we're going to measure whether you're making progress against them really rigorous and we would go to Congress each year and say you should invest in the FBI because we'll show you how we're spending our money and we'll show you whether we're making good on our promises to spend the money this way and I couldn't move more than $100,000 in total value so in equipment or people without going to Congress and getting permission because a law had passed that said this is how you shall spend your money and it was based on what we had told them we were going to spend it on so how you move lots of people to immigration and how you do it consistent with the rigor of that prioritization process mystifies me because I assume that terrorism and counter intelligence are still at the top of the stack and so what's the rationale for the move and what does Congress say about the move i I can't tell you i've again you've been in the building i haven't can't isn't can't isn't there just like a what's the game with the ball and the cups um can't you just say that counter the the immigration stuff is counterintel right then so you had money that was supposed to be in this bucket that you're going to read just sort of move it the other way i don't know is that too simplified well it risks being a false state a false statement which you really don't want to do at the FBI but yeah if Congress is going to wink and nod because you're going to say that you know it's national security work because we're protecting the border i guess at that point the rigor of the threat review process has been thrown over but sure I guess you if Congress is going to let you do it you can do whatever you want well I we just saw Christy Gnome testifying i guess it was earlier this week where she was being pushed on this i forget uh which Democratic member it was apologies for not chatting them up but they're pressuring her about this which is like she is spending a bunch of money that's not allocated on on border stuff on advertising promoting how great their deportation efforts have been on a bunch of other things and I don't know if it's Republicans that are controlling the Congress and the Senate and they're not going to do oversight of it i I mean I I don't know what the oversight process would be right so maybe there's just a little bit of a free reign and it's different than when you were back in public service i think that's right i mean you get that sense across a broad spectrum of issues that Congress has just folded it up and that leg of the the constitutional stool doesn't exist anymore and so they it's no longer that the president's responsible for taking care of the law be faithfully executed he kind of gets to make the law now that seems to be what's going on across the spectrum are you worried at all about like the medium-term um threats to the bureau itself like as an institution and just thinking about again good people leaving thinking about like shutting down public corruption investigations that you know the norms change where you know kind of having a more politicized bureau just is accepted and that it's hard to unwind that stuff or do you think that you know maybe I'm being too pessimistic no I'm very worried and because we spent 50 years after Hoover died trying to build an FBI that stood apart it was in the executive branch but not of the executive branch spiritually culturally because we needed that and I when I was nominated to be FBI director Republican senators and Democrats all said the same thing you must protect the independence of that institution it can't be part of politics it can't be on anybody's team because you have to investigate everybody over and over again they told me the same thing and that's reflected in the 10-year term which is symbolic right the president can fire was legally entitled to fire an FBI director me in this case but the 10-year term is to signal something and it's the reason that when Barack Obama was playing basketball on the FBI basketball court downstairs I knew he was there i never went down because Louie Free didn't hang out with the president bob Mueller didn't hang out with the president i didn't hang out with the president because we're trying to protect the reality and the reputation of the FBI as separate and now you see the FBI director hanging out with the president laughing with the president socializing with the president that is something that symbolizes a real worry that I have that we're going to lose what we spent 50 years building now can we rebuild it of course but in the meantime good people won't come to the FBI good people will leave the FBI and more than anything else people won't trust the FBI jurors witnesses victims sheriffs police chiefs people that we need to know the FBI is going to be criticized because we play our games on national television in a polarized environment but but if you're not trusted you can't do the work i mean during our dinner at the White House alone I tried to explain to Donald Trump during Trump 1.0 I know why it was in his interest to have an institution that he could give the hardest problems to and say "Well they're not in my squad they're figuring it out according to the law and the facts that it's without fear or favor." And when you lose that you lose something important it's a it's a paradox the closer you try and hold that institution the more problems you create and I shouldn't use the word paradox you didn't know what I was talking about but it it it's something is really important and in danger when you conduct the business the way they're doing it now speaking of talking to MAGA folks not Trump himself you know you have we all do have Trump supporters in our lives let's just imagine you're talking to a Trump supporter and they listen to that answer it's like come on Jim Comey like the FBI was always politicized trump you know they sent FBI agents into Trump's house at Mara Lago and so we're just doing we're just treating Democrats the way we were treated and all the rest of it was just window dressing like what what what would what do you say to that i'm not sure there's much I can say if you're going to be trapped in a bubble like that and there really are bubbles i mean when someone yells you at me on the street I have to pause and say is that a Clintonian you or a Trumpian you i look for context clues and location and inflection and it's because people are trapped in their own bubbles why why were both sides angry at us at different times is because we were doing investigations in difficult circumstances without regard to persons without fear or favor but if people are going to say you know they invaded Trump's home and leave aside the fact that they had a court-ordered search warrant and all that sort of thing there's not much you can say to them and I just wish there were a way to make the bubbles go away yeah is there anything you're seeing that concerns you that I that might not catch my attention you know since you're kind of more familiar with you know the norms and mores of the agency of the bureau no I think we've touched on the right things they are there there is danger in having the FBI be an attachment to the White House and part of the president's personal team and it's the reason I was so freaked when Donald Trump asked for loyalty it's the reason for example Louisie Free surrendered his White House pass when the FBI was participating in the investigations that touched the Clinton administration you cannot be on the team and do the work credibly but I think that's that's the kind of concern you and I have talked about
i have one more Cash Patel question because I just I have James Comey here so I have to do it uh he was on Maria Bart Romo this weekend i don't know if you're a big watcher of Sunday Futures uh but he was asked uh he was there with Dan Bunino and they were asked about the Epstein situation and I want to play it for you you said Jeffrey Epstein committed suicide people don't believe it well I mean listen they have a right to their opinion but as someone who has worked as a public defender as a prosecutor who's been in that prison system who's been in the Metropolitan Detention Center who's been in segregated housing um you know a suicide when you see one and that's what that was he killed himself you again you want me to I've I've seen the whole file he killed himself it's pretty weird scene i don't know would you ever found yourself in that situation no both in in general and in particular with M Maria Barto Romo i'd be on the bullwark obviously but the look these guys in an odd way I kind of feel sorry for them because they spent years barking nonsense about the FBI and its work to their followers and then the dogs not only caught the car they have to drive the car and nothing in their lives have prepared them for that but they're also now driving in a realitybased universe where facts matter and statements have to be under oath and there's accountability in the courts and so the nonsense has to go away but their followers who grew up on this they don't see it the same way and so I I got to imagine they're under tremendous pressure and look you can take joy in that i actually think it'd be better if they didn't have that kind of distraction and they were a different kind of person and could run the FBI without worrying about the followers they had lied to yeah i guess there's a little vindication right i mean like look they said the FBI was behind January 6th there was something mysterious happening with the Trump assassination attempts epstein who knows maybe it was the Clintons even though I never really understood that conspiracy since he died when Trump was president the first time uh in in in prison uh but now they have to you know uh reflect reality it's a little bit of a vindication for the reality based world we we take our wins where we can I guess right yeah that's right and they spent years saying the FBI was a corrupt deep state cabal of leftists and it and I guess they changed that on day one because on day one it became the greatest investigative agency in the world which I believe is the actual truth and that they saw it on day one I guess is a wonderful thing but it's going to take their followers a while to catch up which puts them in a spot do you have any doubts about Epstein you think maybe Trump and Cash were I do not i do not all right all right you never know i don't know i I I I have a little nagging doubt i mean it is interesting that Trump and him were on the plane together and it was Trump that was the president when he was in jail i I'm just throwing that out there um the uh uh one more uh news item and then we're going to play a game then we'll talk about the book uh there was a dinner last night Trump golf course um with the biggest investors into the Trump cryptocurrency uh uh it was like a game it was they were also playing a game it was a competition where the more money you gave Donald Trump personally the better seat you got at this private dinner um several of the dinner guests in interviews with the New York Times said they attended the event with the explicit intent of influencing Mr for Trump and US financial regulations i I mean I don't obviously you don't have all the details of this and all the files but this seems like bribery to me this seems like public corruption in the most extreme way that I've seen in in my life yeah on the face of it it's beyond fiction and if I put it in my next book my editor would strike it out saying "You got to write something closer to reality." A little more subtle right at the heart of every public corruption investigation is proving the challenge of proving corrupt intent beyond a reasonable doubt that when people took an action because there the defense that's offered in almost every public corruption case is that I had no intention of influencing or it never occurred to me that this might be wrong again the challenge with Donald Trump though is that he he robs banks without a mask right he does it in the middle of the day so he can say "What i'm I'm not a bank robber i mean sure I have a gun but who would do this in the middle of the day with no mask and so it in an odd way presents a this is not going to be investigated given the nature of the leadership of the Department of Justice but if they try to investigate it that's actually an impediment this bizarre brazeness but it's not going to be looked at anyway well like I just to try to contextualize it I just said it was the you know most brazen example of public corruption I've seen in my life but you're more familiar with this stuff than me what was the most you know extreme public corruption case you looked into over the years like is there one that jumps to mind or something you're like "Wow like that guy was really on the take." The one involving a congressman I think Jefferson from Louisiana oh yeah where the FBI search found stacks of cash in his freezer that he had taken as I recall expressly to influence what he did with legislation and then he put it in the freezer that was one of the worst i mean obviously uh the Menendez case with the gold bars and the money in his pockets those are examples that leap to mind but do plenty of others do you remember what how much cash was in William Jefferson's freezer i do not 90,000 bucks not nothing pretty good you can get a little boat with 90,000 bucks or take your wife on a couple nice vacations um the biggest contributor to the Trump dinner last night Justin Sun a Chinese national uh gave 40 million purchased 40 million in Trump coin 40 million that's insane yeah we just can't let it overwhelm us there's a real danger that we'll just become numb that we can't even see norms and rules in the rearview mirror we're so far past it and we just can't we can't let it happen and you know we become numb to the fact that I'm obviously spent my career as a lawyer seeing these law firms knuckle under and basically mortgage part of the business to Donald Trump that that it's happened so much that there's a risk we will become numb to it which is why we have to keep calling it out it's why you have to do what you do i'm sure you don't enjoy having to talk about it every day but we cannot let it become normal yeah I don't enjoy New York Times media criticism either but I was I was reading the article about this this morning and and here's just one sentence from it about the dinner it was a spectacle that could have only happened in the era of Donald Trump well that's technically true yeah that it's a spectacle that could have only happened in the era of Donald Trump but it also is a type of corruption and bribery and likely illegality that never would have happened like that's why the spe like it's not the spectacle that was uniquely Trump it's the grift and the corruption that was uniquely Trump and this guy Justin Sun was being investigated by the Biden administration he's no longer being investigated he put 40 million into the Trump coin and again I've never had to bring a case in front of a grand jury but that seems pretty cut and dry to me yeah and I talking about it as a spectacle is like it's the Met Gala right right it's it's it's not about the fashion and the form there's something deeply substantively troubling about this it's not a spectacle have one more thing before we get to the game uh on a podcast last Friday my buddy Peter Hamby uh said nobody likes James Comey you mentioned earlier that you get use on the street back and forth i don't know how how do you how are you processing that is that something that you're is that do you have therapist is that something that you have to deal with personally what what how how how do you react to something like that well because I am a devoted fan I was watching and listening when that man said that hurtful thing about me and I thought you know you bastard my family at least on the surface seems to like me a lot my dog died a few years ago but was very fond of me so I I look I I have to laugh i'm married to a trained marriage and family therapist thank God so I have in-house help but I'm I'm a happy person because you feel like you need a hug if I need a hug I got five kids i got five grandchildren i watch my grandchildren all the time and so I my life is full of hugs and people who tell me I'm awesome but that's cuz I'm their pop well Peter just had his first child earlier this week so congratulations to Peter Hamy's youngest daughter Ren i I think the point he was making more to the point as much as I am concerned about your personal mental uh well-being was like the there was a there's like a sense in the on the megaite that there is like this political wellspring of goodwill for you among among the other tribe i think uh you know maybe a kinder way of putting the point that Peter put was like that's not actually true uh you know you you are kind of in a no man's land politically even though you're publicly for Kamla and etc like there's there there are folks that have grievances with you across the across the spectrum I think yeah that's right and I knew that's what he was talking about and he's right i mean it there are uh people partisans on the bell curve at both wings many of them have strong negative feelings for me i I can't do anything about that and so it's uh it just is what it is and but yeah mag the MAGA world is wrong that I am some influential figure on the especially on the left side of the political spectrum um I'm a bullwalker i have no home except a group of s uh people of principle who don't really care for liked but care deeply about this country and its values i've got and you're you're welcome here but I've got some bad news there are even a couple bull workers that are mad at you so So you know we just got to do our best in this world jim Comey like we can only you can only do your best and let the chips fall to that end here comes the game um I I believe and and again you were a prosecutor once you're more familiar with the rule of law than me i I do believe that in this country we can still say the number 86 like 86 is still something we can say I think without threat is that true for you do you think that's I would hope so again I I've I had never heard of it used in a threatening sense i actually still haven't seen any examples from literature or theater or any place else where it's used as a threat but I mean I took the post down cuz I thought whether it's reasonable or not if people are going to say that i want no part of that it's my Instagram account for God's sakes yeah but you anybody in the restaurant business knows 86 means just say we're out of the chicken or 86 that guy he's drunk at the bar we got to get him out of here i'm pretty sure and you weren't handcuffed yet so So I I'm I'm taking a risk that Eagle Ed Martin is not going to come for us and the game here is uh 86 or don't 86 jim's com Jim Comey starting 86 Trump tariffs should we 86 Trump's tariffs or don't 86 Trump's tariffs we should get rid of Trump's tariffs okay are you afraid to say 86 one of the things he's targeting this morning 50% tariff increase on Europe so that's going to really hurt IKEA the Swedish Have you ever been in IKEA many times okay the Swedish meatballs eating the little meatballs yeah okay are we 86ing the Swedish meatballs or are we not i hope not i hope we keep the meatballs and they remain free okay um you're a lot of the book which we're going to get to next take a lot of a lot of New York scenes i've had to fly to New York a lot lately flying into JFK are we 86ing flying into JFK or are we still doing it i have not flown into JFK in many years laguardia is Valhalla of airports I'm told so I would fly i'm 86 in JFK uh not not literally Ed Martin and John F and he's already dead so no worries okay we're going to continue we've got six more martha Stewart's cookbook are we 86ing Martha Stewart's cookbook or not you and Martha have a little past we have history but I I feel like we're over the history and she was guilty as heck but but you know she was punished for her crime and so I have nothing against her cookbook so I wouldn't 86 it not 86 great uh Anthony Weiner's Nudes are we 86ing Anthony Weiner's nudes or are we going to still look at them those I would pitch out of the bar okay um uh people asking you how's the weather up there would you like to 86 that as a tall man do you get asked that all i get asked that fairly frequently most often people just say how tall are you but yeah I I I wouldn't I wouldn't 86 that because it's a people they they don't mean it in any negative way so I would let that one go how about people asking about the 2016 campaign would you like to 86 that that one I might that I might want to have in the rearview mirror okay um uh finally the the Reinhold neighbor serenity prayer are you 86ing that or are you embracing it no embrace important part of uh being alive and staying sane knowing the difference between things you can change and things you can't and having wisdom and connection with both all right that is 86 or 86 with James Comey uh we still are in a free country where we can we can use say whatever number we want to for now May 20 May 23rd 2025 we'll see what happens as we move forward let's get to the book it is FDR Drive uh give people a quick summary i uh and I' I've been I was going back and forth last night uh because I can only take so much of the other book for YouTube people should go check that out later i'm interviewing a author who wrote about Sam Alman and just as a brief aside the more I learn about Sam Alman the more concerned I am about the coming artificial intelligence apocalypse um but uh that's for a separate YouTube uh and so I've only gotten through a little bit of it so we don't want to have any spoilers but why don't you give people a quick summary of the book yeah it's a story about a right-wing podcaster based in New York who is trying to motivate his followers to physically target and engage of acts of violence against people he doesn't like a variety of people around the country and it's a does he post sea shell pictures to do that there are no seashell pictures interesting then I would start to have concerns that it was a book promo okay another thing that an editor would have stricken is making no sense at all but the so it's about this podcaster and and my protagonist Norah Carlton whether she can make a case and stop the violence and it's about policing this line which is really important between speech and crime and about uh the challenges she faced and it's a twisty courtroom drama in the main that I won't give anything away but it's it's real it's true to the way things are really done and I think it will hold people pretty well we noticed uh producer Katie noticed the right-wing podcasters name is Samuel Buchanan i didn't catch that uh but the initials are intriguing was that a accident sb Samuel Buchanan okay no just a just maybe it was in your subconscious there is a very famous right-wing podcaster right now uh who's who likes to have me who likes to give me from time to time steve Bannon SP it must have been deep in the subconscious deep in your subconscious SP um I do wonder so you've been writing this is your third one in the series lots changed out there in the world like the interference of real life and what you're trying to write and you're trying to write stuff that is like as you just mentioned true to kind of you know the the advantage that you would maybe have over authors who are not do not have your background is that you kind of really know how these things work uh but the way that things are working has been changing a lot very fast and I just I do wonder if you know uh real life being stranger than fiction has created any hurdles for you it does in the sense that I have to figure out what to write next that will be interesting but not turn off readers right readers don't want to read in my stuff what they're getting in the news every day i think it would depress them and so I have to you write these books i write these books a year in advance right i'm just finishing the fourth which is a Russian espionage story and so Russian espionage will still be relevant in 2026 so I have to try I don't know if it's too late to change it but I heard that we are hiring spies in Greenland now i don't know if you saw the story J we're looking into putting spies on the ground in Greenland so maybe it could be a nuke espionage story move it to Greenland hadn't even thought of that yeah but who knows right you're supposed to skate to where the puck will be i have no idea where the puck is going to be a year from now so um I wrote this book not knowing what America would be exactly like in May of 2025 but I knew that this question of so where is the line between speech and violence and the influence of these right-wing voices of hate would still be a feature of our life so next spring Russian espionage will still be a feature of our life i don't know what the book after that will be and then I'll be out of the Trump administration God willing I think by that point talk to me about the like storyboarding process of this somebody who's written a non-fiction book like the like just organizing all the interviews I did for the non-fiction book was challenging for me you know how how are and so like writing a fiction book trying to remember what the protagonist had said in previous books or in previous chapters or yesterday like would be a challenge for me like how do you do that you have like a big whiteboard do you have a do you have an app on your phone that helps you with it or AI have you incorporated AI I No it's about choosing the right life partner my spouse uh keeps all that online we we start by the two of us talking about what might be a cool story and then we agree that this is what the story will be and I go off and write a detailed summary of it so like a five 10 page capturing the how how it's going to go and then we figure out so which parts of that should I show to the reader and when then I go off to write and she follows it on a Google doc and the reason it's so important is she's smarter than I but she's also read much more fiction than I and so she says "I'm every reader." And she'll say "Ah no no no you're drifting or your characters are starting to sound like each other or this is repetitive." I get that loving feedback in little bubbles on a Google doc and that keeps me online then I go out to the five kids with the story you know my protagonist is inspired by my oldest daughter who is the lead prosecutor in the P diddy case today and so I get a lot of feedback about the story and about the particulars because I want to keep it current and they help me a lot with that the character parts not sounding the same part does sound like another thing that'd be a big challenge for me like I'm pretty good at uh I've I've gotten good at writing like Tim which is a challenge in itself actually just like sounding like yourself when you write rather than losing your voice uh but having nine characters that have different voices like do you have little you have little note cards or something that that helps you remember the spirit of the character or No what helps me is I've based the key characters on real people right the investigator in the case Benny Dugan is was in all the books is closely based on one of my friends who died in 2006 from melanoma and was the best investigator I ever knew was an enormous 65 250 deep Brooklyn accented you know brush cut hair guy and I can hear him you know he used to call me Mr smooth but he would say Mr smooth and so I can hear his voice and what I do is I spend a lot of time closing my eyes and trying to hear it and then I type on my laptop i sit there with it open and my fingers in the keyboard and just say "Okay Kenny what is he saying now?" And that makes it easier for me than a madeup character it keeps it online much more easily and because my protagonist is inspired by my oldest daughter and really a combination of all five kids that I can close my eyes and picture it and that keeps it online but other smaller characters will drift and that's where I need Patrice's help to say "No no no this this guy is sounding like this woman you can't have that happen." Yeah writing women might be kind of tough it would be tough for me i would think your main charact and and that's obviously I my household is dominated by intelligent strong tall women and so they that helps me i can close my eyes and picture those voices well and then again they'll they'll give me that feedback about what is the hardest part for you of the process like what's most challenging seeing it clearly after I've read it multiple times you just can't it's like trying to proofread your own work you miss typos but trying to ask myself have I got it right i you get to a place where you can't tell and that's where you need help and I I have a circle of I mentioned my family i have a circle of friends who read all of my stuff and they're they're much less loving so they're looking for things to find that are wrong i need that because I can't see it after a while um so your daughter the real life version of your daughter what have are you monitoring the PD case i I know nothing about the P Daddy case actually you can only take in so much information in this world and uh I'm taking in way too much about the stupidity in Washington so like c can you can you give me a brief have you been following her work what's happening what's the progress yeah I follow it through the New York Times does regular updates they have people in the courtroom who send out little updates so that's my way for following it she won't talk to me about the case and won't let me go uh she will let my wife go and watch but if I go quote "It'll be a thing Dad." Close quote and so I I don't get to go but I follow it on online because you can't It's federal court so there's no cameras you're not getting real-time transcripts so I follow it from the little snippets sent out by reporters and how's she doing she's doing great she's really good and better than I and her passion has been um sex crimes sex trafficking working with victims she has a gift and I worry about it because that kind of stuff can really chew you up but she has a gift and so it's I think she's doing very well the trial in particular I can't tell from the outside you can never know but I mean it seems like he did it say again i don't even know what he's accused of seems like he did it he was he was he was abusing women was it also boys or was it just women no women he's accused as I understand it of sex trafficking women to coers them into having sex with male prostitutes so he could watch and then he's accused separately of the crime of of supporting commissioning interstate prostitution man so it's not it's not children it's a Got it it's grown women who are alleged to have been dominated and coerced by him in the worst possible ways it's pretty sick you got a great life if you're P diddy you know doesn't feel like that would be necessary it's sad um well that's cool though that you get to kind of even though you don't get to literally watch because you know you don't want it to be a thing it's cool to have a daughter that's doing that right you got to you got to be brimming with pride yeah I am i worried when she said she wanted to do it and that she would go where I worked as a federal prosecutor as a line prosecutor where I was the US attorney and here's the true thing i worried she would be known as my daughter honestly I am known as her father i love that all right uh final thing u you're a little more zen than me as reference as as uh um you know demonstrated by the by the sea shell pick like your even your protests you know or your commentary maybe let's call it on uh on the political moment is a little bit more zen in nature uh what what are your worries though like what catastrophies with me for a second let's close in the spirit of the Bullwark podcast like what are the things that you're the most concerned about um that you're seeing in in the government right now well I'm worried about an economic catastrophe uh if well you have experts who can talk to you about this but I worry very much about what might happen if the creditworthiness of the United States which affects the bond markets and people's willingness to buy our debt collapses um we have not seen that in well we haven't seen it and so what we would do then while led by an incompetent in the middle of a crisis like that I I can't even imagine and so I'm very worried about that closer to my career I worry very much about are we keeping our eye on the ball of the terrorism threat and the counter intelligence threat which again we're at the top of the FBI stack for a reason and it there's a real danger that we'll become distracted and lose our focus with catastrophic results okay that's good enjoy your enjoy your day that is that is that is right in my wheelhouse all right Jim Comey well you know we had our moments you know Octo October 2016 wasn't maybe my favorite Jim Comey moment but in spite of it and despite the fact that nobody likes you you've got me i' I I I just in spite of myself I like Jim Comey you got me your wife your dead dog that's all you need maybe a handful of other people what else do you need what else do you need in this world the book is FDR Drive uh there were two other ones if you want to start at the beginning which one was first westport was Westport the first one no central Park West first then Westport then FDR Drive all right so if you want to start at the beginning check out Central Park West uh that is Jim Comey monday's Memorial Day but I'm working Memorial Day me and Bill Crystal we're not taking off all right so uh you guys enjoy your barbecues enjoy your crawfish boils this weekend enjoy your beach walks be careful with any Instagram pictures you post on the beach you know double check and uh we'll see you back here on Monday for another edition of the show peace hey guys it's Tim and Sarah we're here with my friend John Love It from Love It or Leave It june is Pride Month and we're going to be live in DC on June 6th for World Pride for a very special live show fundraiser featuring the three of us plus some gay special guests crooked and the Bull Work will be donating the proceeds from this fundraiser to the Immigrant Defenders Law Center to support Andre Romero the makeup artist who the Trump administration wrongly disappeared to El Salvador and who is currently being held in Sakat go to crooked.com/events and we will see you all on June 6th
