Press Sec. LOSES IT When Reporter Won't Back Down! by John Iadarola The Damage Report Jul 11, 2025 #TheDamageReport #JohnIadarola #TheYoungTurks
MAGA is reeling after Attorney General Pam Bondi backtracked on her previous statements about a certain "client list". The Damage Report's John Iadarola breaks it down.
Transcript
Donald Trump is falling apart as reporters, and even many of his own supporters, are refusing to stop asking questions about his connections to Jeffrey Epstein. The DOJ and FBI have now concluded there was no Jeffrey Epstein client list. What do you tell MAGA supporters who say they want anyone involved in Jeffrey Epstein's alleged crimes to be held accountable?
[Karoline Leavitt] This administration wants anyone who has ever committed a crime to be held accountable. And I would argue this administration has done more to lock up bad guys than certainly the previous administration. And the Trump administration is committed to truth, and to transparency. That's why the attorney general, and the FBI director pledged, at the president's direction, to do an exhaustive review of all of the files related to Jeffrey Epstein's crimes and his death. And they put out a memo in conclusion of that review.
Marjorie Taylor Greene holds up censored photo of Hunter Biden and a prostitute. Foxnews.com
There was material they did not release because frankly it was incredibly graphic and it contained child pornography, which is not something that's appropriate for public consumption. But they committed to an exhaustive investigation. That's what they did, and they provided the results of that. That's transparency.
[Fox Reporter] Okay. So, the FBI looks at the circumstances surrounding the death of Jeffrey Epstein. According to the report, this systematic review revealed no incriminating client list. So, what happened to the Epstein client list that the attorney general said she had on her desk?
[Karoline Leavitt] Well, I think if you go back and look at what the attorney general said in that interview, which was on your network on Fox News ...
[Fox Reporter] I have the quote. John Roberts said, "DOJ may be releasing the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients. Will that really happen?" And she said, "It's sitting on my desk right now to review."
[Karoline Leavitt] Yes. She was saying the entirety of all of the paperwork, all of the paper in relation to Jeffrey Epstein's crimes. That's what the attorney general was referring to, and I'll let her speak for that. But again, when it comes to the FBI and the Department of Justice, they are more than committed to ensuring that bad people are put behind bars. They have an operation going on right now called Summer Heat, which has our murder rate trending in the lowest direction in United States history. Their emphasis on violent crime and locking up violent criminals has led to the arrest of 14,000 violent criminals. That's a 62% increase from the same time period last year. So, this attorney general and the FBI director are committed to putting bad people behind bars where they belong. They promised an exhaustive review. That's what they did.
[Donald Trump] Are you still talking about Jeffrey Epstein? This guy's been talked about for years. You're asking -- we have Texas, we have this, we have all of the things. And are people still talking about this guy, this creep? That is unbelievable. Do you want to waste the time on it? Do you feel like answering?
[Pam Bondi] I don't mind answering.
[Donald Trump] I mean, I can't believe you're asking a question on Epstein. At a time like this, where we're having some of the greatest success, and also tragedy, with what happened in Texas. It just seems like a desecration. But you go ahead.
[Pam Bondi] Sure. Sure. First, to back up on that, in February I did an interview on Fox and it's been getting a lot of attention, because I said I was asked a question about the client list, and my response was, it's sitting on my desk to be reviewed, meaning the file, along with the JFK, MLK files as well. That's what I meant by that. Also to the tens of thousands of video, they turned out to be child porn downloaded by that disgusting Jeffrey Epstein. Child porn is what they were. Never going to be released, never going to see the light of day. To him being an agent, I have no knowledge about that. We can get back to you on that. And the minute missing from the video. We released the video showing definitively -- the video was not conclusive, but the evidence prior to it was showing he committed suicide. And what was on that, there was a minute that was off the counter. And what we learned from Bureau of Prisons was every year, every night, they redo that video. It's old, from like 1999. So every night the video is reset, and every night should have the same minute missing. So we're looking for that video to release that as well, showing that a minute is missing every night. And that's it on Epstein.
[Don, Jr.] I'm fine with all the other lists, and as long as I'm not on the Epstein list, we're good, right? Speaking of which, how is it that my father can be convicted of 34 crimes, but no one on Epstein's list has even been brought to light? How, I'm trying to figure out how that's possible, right? But it's almost like they're trying to protect those pedophiles for some reason. I can't imagine why.
[Fox Reporter] The DOJ may be releasing the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients. Will that really happen?
[Pam Bondi] It's sitting on my desk right now to review. That's been a directive by President Trump. I'm reviewing that. I'm reviewing JFK files, MLK files. That's all in the process of being reviewed, because that was done at the directive of the president, from all of these agencies.
[Fox Reporter] So have you seen anything that you said, "Oh my gosh"?
[Pam Bondi] Not yet."
[Fox Reporter] Okay. Well, we'll check back with you.
[Steve Bannon] This is supposed to be about the most transparent administration ever.
[MAGA WORLD reporter] What on earth is going on? Was Pam Bondi set up by deep state FBI career officials? Is she stupid? Is she so click-thirsty that she got out over her skis trying to make news, being a Fox News star?
[Alex Jones] Pam Bondi, all of it. All those videos are saying, "Yeah, she's seen the videos. It's all coming out." And then now, it doesn't exist? I mean, what? What?
[Dan Bongino] The Jeffrey Epstein case, you do not know all the details of this thing, I promise. There are a lot of really obviously powerful people. This part, you know, but the specific names we may not.
[Alina Habba] There were so many individuals that were hidden and kept secret, and have not been held accountable.
[Pam Bondi] What you're going to see, hopefully tomorrow, is a lot of flight logs, a lot, a lot, of names, a lot, a lot of information.
[Fox Reporter] The DOJ may be releasing the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients. Will that really happen?
[Pam Bondi] It's sitting on my desk right now to review. That's been a directive by President Trump.
[Dan Bongino] I'm just telling you what we see in the file. I am, I just want to be crystal clear on this. I am not asking anyone to believe me. I'm telling you what's there, and what isn't. Right? There is nothing in the file at this point on the Epstein case. And there's going to be a disclosure on this coming shortly. We are working through some, there is video. That is something the public --
[Reporter] There's video of him killing himself?
[Dan Bongino] No, no, not the actual act, but the entire MCC bay. It was only one camera. There's video, that when you look at the video, and we will release -- that's what's taken a while on this -- we are working on cleaning it up to make sure you have an enhanced -- and we're going to give the original so you don't think there were any shenanigans -- you're going to see there's no one there but him. There's just nobody there. So, I say to people all the time, if you have a tip, let us know. But there's no DNA, there's no audio, there's no fingerprints, there's no suspects, there's no accomplices, there's no tips, there is nothing. If you have it, I'm happy to see it. There's video clear as day. He's the only person in there, and the only person coming out. You can see it.
"Absence of Evidence Is Not Evidence of Absence" – A Shared Caution Among Thinkers by chatgpt 7/12/25
The phrase "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" is widely associated with the late astronomer Carl Sagan, who invoked it in discussions about scientific skepticism, especially regarding extraterrestrial life. Sagan used it to remind audiences that just because we haven't found evidence of alien life doesn’t mean it doesn't exist. In The Demon-Haunted World (1995), he emphasized, "Your inability to invalidate my hypothesis is not at all the same thing as proving it true." Though not a direct citation of the phrase, it echoes its caution against assuming nonexistence without adequate investigation.
Another prominent male figure who employed this phrase is Donald Rumsfeld, former U.S. Secretary of Defense. During a 2002 Department of Defense briefing, he stated, "The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, or vice versa," when discussing weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. His use of the phrase sparked controversy, as critics argued it was used to justify action without solid proof, highlighting the phrase’s susceptibility to political manipulation.
Among women, physicist and science communicator Dr. Lisa Randall has echoed similar sentiments in her work on dark matter and extra dimensions. In interviews and writings, she stresses that the current lack of direct detection of dark matter doesn’t invalidate its existence. While she may not quote the phrase verbatim, her arguments align with its epistemological caution.
Likewise, philosopher of science Dr. Susan Haack has addressed the principle in her writings on evidence and inquiry. In Manifesto of a Passionate Moderate (1998), she explores how negative results must be contextualized, warning against the fallacy of assuming that no evidence implies nonexistence—a nuanced reinforcement of the quote's meaning.
Together, these thinkers—Sagan, Rumsfeld, Randall, and Haack—demonstrate how the phrase transcends disciplines, reminding us that absence of evidence is a weak foundation for firm conclusions.
***
In criminal trials, defense lawyers sometimes invoke the idea that *“absence of evidence is not evidence of absence”*—a maxim popularized by figures like Sagan and Rumsfeld—to argue that a lack of proof should create reasonable doubt. Let’s explore confirmed uses:
Usage in Criminal Defense Strategy
1. Clayton T. Robertson (Criminal Defense Lawyer)
Robertson, in a blog post about cross-examination, describes the tactic of identifying “negative cues”—raising doubt by pointing out what prosecution witnesses and experts *didn't* observe or testify about. He emphasizes that this method is used in *criminal defense cross-examination of officers and experts* ([evidenceattrial.com][1], [RobertsonLitigation][2]).
While not quoting the phrase directly, defense attorneys have sought—and courts have often rejected—jury instructions that allow drawing negative inferences from *relevant* witnesses not called by the defense. For example, **Griffin v. California** and related case law prevent prosecutors from arguing that a defendant's silence indicates guilt, but some defense lawyers push back, citing the defendant’s silence as rational explanation .
3. People v. Montgomery / People v. Green (California)
Courts discussed that a defendant’s *failure* to flee doesn't strongly support innocence—an early recognition that negative evidence can be ambiguous. This principle has influenced trial tactics, as defense counsel sometimes urge jurors not to assume guilt or innocence based on what wasn't shown .
Criminal Cases Applying the Principle
While explicit quoting in published opinions is rare, defense attorneys often indirectly rely on it:
Cross-examination tactics: Lawyers challenge prosecution experts by highlighting missing data—e.g. “You didn’t test this sample,” or “You didn’t ask about that in your report.”
Closing arguments: They remind jurors that a complete lack of evidence—say, a forensic test that wasn’t performed—does not resolve reasonable doubt in the prosecution’s favor.
Conclusion
Yes, criminal defense lawyers have used this argument, though typically they frame it strategically rather than quoting Sagan. Clayton Robertson acknowledged its use in cross-examining experts ([RobertsonLitigation][2], [Reddit][3]). Court rulings on missing-witness instructions and the weight of negative evidence show awareness of the concept, even as they impose limits on drawing adverse inferences ([law.justia.com][4]).
So while no blockbuster criminal case quote may echo Sagan verbatim, the epistemological principle is deeply woven into defense strategy and legal doctrine.
[John Iadarola] The fallout from this absolute PR disaster has been amazing to watch. Seeing all of his sycophants realizing in real time that there's a reason that Trump doesn't want the truth to come out. We all remember the little black book that Gawker published way back in 2015, right? As the walls close in, his enablers are finally being forced to reckon with what they've defended all these years. The spectacle isn't just about one man's corruption. It's a reminder of how easily power can warp reality itself when enough people are willing to look the other way. For many of his supporters, this is another chance to practice their unique brand of mental gymnastics. But for some, this could be the start of a realization that Trump isn't interested in justice or protecting children. He's interested in protecting himself and his wealthy friends. Here's hoping, anyway. [Music]
Librarian's Comment: These are the kinds of allegations that I'm sure are in the Epstein file, that Trump does NOT WANT TO BE REVEALED!
FACTUAL ALLEGATIONS
5. The Plaintiff, Katie Johnson, alleges that the Defendants, Donald J. Trump and Jeffrey E. Epstein, did willfully and with extreme malice violate her Civil Rights under 18 U.S.C ; 2241 by sexually and physically abusing Plaintiff Johnson by forcing her to engage in various perverted and depraved sex acts by threatening physical harm to Plaintiff Johnson and also her family.
6. The Plaintiff, Katie Johnson, alleges that the Defendants, Donald J. Trump and Jeffrey E. Epstein, also did willfully and with extreme malice violate her Civil Rights under 42 U.S.C.; 1985 by conspiring to deny Plaintiff Johnson her Civil Rights by making her their sex slave.
7. The Plaintiff, Katie Johnson, alleges she was subject to extreme sexual and physical abuse by the Defendants, Donald J. Trump and Jeffrey E. Epstein, including forcible rape during a four month time span covering the months of June-September 1994 when Plaintiff Johnson was still only a minor of age 13.
8. The Plaintiff, Katie Johnson, alleges she was enticed by promises of money and a modeling career to attend a series of underage sex parties held at the New York City residence of Defendant Jeffrey E. Epstein and attended by Defendant Donald J. Trump.
9. On the first occasion involving the Defendant, Donald J. Trump, the Plaintiff, Katie Johnson, was forced to manually stimulate Defendant Trump with the use of her hand upon Defendant Trump's erect penis until he reached sexual orgasm.
10. On the second occasion involving the Defendant, Donald J. Trump, the Plaintiff, Katie Johnson, was forced to orally copulate Defendant Trump by placing her mouth upon Defendant Trump's erect penis until he reached sexual orgasm.
11. On the third occasion involving the Defendant, Donald J. Trump, the Plaintiff, Katie Johnson was forced to engage in an unnatural lesbian sex act with her fellow minor and sex slave, Maria Doe age 12, for the sexual enjoyment of Defendant Trump. After this sex act, both minors were forced to orally copulate Defendant Trump by placing their mouths simultaneously on his erect penis until he achieved sexual orgasm. After zipping up his pants, Defendant Trump physically pushed both minors away while angrily berating them for the "poor" quality of their sexual performance.
12. On the fourth and final sexual encounter with the Defendant, Donald J. Trump, the Plaintiff, Katie Johnson, was tied to a bed by Defendant Trump who then proceeded to forcibly rape Plaintiff Johnson. During the course of this savage sexual attack, Plaintiff Johnson loudly pleaded with Defendant Trump to "please wear a condom". Defendant Trump responded by violently striking Plaintiff Johnson in the face with his open hand and screaming that "he would do whatever he wanted" as he refused to wear protection. After achieving sexual orgasm, the Defendant, Donald J. Trump put his suit back on and when the Plaintiff, Katie Johnson, in tears asked Defendant Trump what would happen if he had impregnated her, Defendant Trump grabbed his wallet and threw some money at her and screamed that she should use the money "to get a fucking abortion".
13. On the first occasion involving the Defendant, Jeffrey E. Epstein, the Plaintiff, Katie Johnson, was forced to disrobe into her bra and panties and to give a full body massage to Defendant Epstein while he was completely naked. During the massage, Defendant Epstein physically forced Plaintiff Johnson to touch his erect penis with her bare hands and to clean up his ejaculated semen after he achieved sexual orgasm.
14. On the second occasion involving the Defendant, Jeffrey Epstein, the Plaintiff, Katie Johnson was again forced to disrobe into her bra and panties while giving Defendant Epstein a full body massage while he was completely naked. The Defendant, Donald J. Trump, was also present as he was getting his own massage from another minor, Jane Doe, age 13. Defendant Epstein forced Plaintiff Johnson to touch his erect penis by physically placing her bare hands upon his sex organ and again forced Plaintiff Johnson to clean up his ejaculated semen after he achieved sexual orgasm.
5. Shortly after this sexual assault by the Defendant, Jeffrey E. Epstein, on the Plaintiff, Katie Johnson, Plaintiff Johnson was still present while the two Defendants were arguing over who would be the one to take Plaintiff Johnson's virginity. The Defendant, Donald J. Trump, was clearly heard referring to Defendant, Jeffrey E. Epstein, as a "Jew Bastard" as he yelled at Defendant Epstein, that clearly, he, Defendant Trump, should be the lucky one to "pop the cherry" of Plaintiff Johnson.
16. The third and final sexual assault by the Defendant, Jeffrey E. Epstein, on the Plaintiff, Kati Johnson, took place after Plaintiff Johnson had been brutally and savagely raped by Defendant Trump. While receiving another full body massage from Plaintiff Johnson, while in the nude, Defendant Epstein became so enraged after finding out that Defendant Trump had been the one to take Plaintiff Johnson's virginity, that Defendant Epstein also violently raped Plaintiff Johnson. After forcing Plaintiff Johnson to disrobe into her bra and panties, while receiving a massage from the Plaintiff, Defendant Epstein attempted to enter Plaintiff Johnson's anal cavity with his erect penis while trying to restrain her. Plaintiff Johnson attempted to push Defendant Epstein away, at which time Defendant Epstein attempted to enter Plaintiff Johnson's vagina with his erect penis. This attempt to brutally sodomize and rape Plaintiff Johnson by Defendant Epstein was finally repelled by Plaintiff Johnson but not before Defendant Epstein was able to achieve sexual orgasm. After perversely sodomizing and raping the Plaintiff, Katie Johnson, the Defendant, Jeffrey E. Epstein, attempted to strike her about the head with his closed fists while he angrily screamed at Plaintiff Johnson that he, Defendant Epstein, should have been the one who "took her cherry, not Mr. Trump", before she finally managed to break away from Defendant Epstein.
17. The Plaintiff, Katie Johnson, was fully warned on more than one occasion by both Defendants, Donald J. Trump and Jeffrey E. Epstein, that were she ever to reveal any of the details of the sexual and physical abuse that she had suffered as a sex slave for Defendant Trump and Defendant Epstein, that Plaintiff Johnson and her family would be in mortal danger. Plaintiff Johnson was warned that this would mean certain death for herself and Plaintiff Johnson's family unless she remained silent forever on the exact details of the depraved and perverted sexual and physical abuse she had been forced to endure from the Defendants.
MATERIAL WITNESSES
18. Tiffany Doe, a former trusted employee of the Defendant, Jeffrey E. Epstein, has agreed to provide sworn testimony in this civil case and any other future civil or criminal proceedings, fully verifying the authenticity of the claims of the Plaintiff, Katie Johnson. Witness Tiffany Doe was employed by the Defendant, Jeffrey E. Epstein, for more than 10 years as a party planner for his underage sex parties. Despite being subject to constant terroristic threats by Defendants Epstein and Trump to never reveal the details of these underage sex parties at which scores of teenagers, and pre-teen girls were used as sex slaves by Defendant Epstein and Defendant Trump, witness Tiffany Doe refuses to be silent any longer. She has agreed to fully reveal the extent of the sexual perversion and physical cruelty that she personally witnessed at these parties by Defendants Epstein and Trump.
19. Material witness Tiffany Doe fully confirms all of Plaintiff Katie Johnson's allegations of physical and sexual abuse by Defendants Donald J. Trump and Jeffrey E. Epstein. Tiffany Doe was physically present at each of the four occasions of sexual abuse by Defendant Trump upon the person of Plaintiff Johnson, as it was her job to witness all of the sexual escapades of Defendant Epstein's guests at these underage sex parties and later reveal all of the sordid details directly to Defendant Epstein. Defendant Epstein also demanded that Tiffany Doe tell him personally everything she had overheard at these parties explaining to her that "knowledge was king" in the financial world. As a result of these underage sex parties, Defendant Epstein was able to accumulate inside business knowledge that he otherwise would never have been privy to in order to amass his huge personal fortune.
20. Material witness Tiffany Doe will testify that she was also present or had direct knowledge of each of the three instances on which Defendant Jeffrey E. Epstein physically and sexually abused the Plaintiff, Katie Johnson. Tiffany Doe will testify to the fact that the Plaintiff, Katie Johnson, was extremely fortunate to have survived all of the physical and sexual horrors inflicted upon her by Defendants Epstein and Trump.
The list of those who were in Epstein’s orbit is a who’s who of the rich and famous. They include not only Trump, but Bill Clinton, who allegedly took a trip to Thailand with Epstein, Prince Andrew, Bill Gates, hedge fund billionaire Glenn Dubin, former New Mexico governor Bill Richardson, former Secretary of the Treasury and former president of Harvard University Larry Summers, cognitive psychologist and author Stephen Pinker, Alan Dershowitz, billionaire and Victoria’s Secret CEO Leslie Wexner, the former Barclays banker Jes Staley, former Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak, the magician David Copperfield, actor Kevin Spacey, former CIA director Bill Burns, real estate mogul Mort Zuckerman, former Maine senator George Mitchell and disgraced Hollywood producer Harvey Weinstein, who reveled in Epstein’s perpetual Bacchanalia.
They also include law firms and high-priced attorneys, federal and state prosecutors, private investigators, personal assistants, publicists, servants and drivers. They include the numerous procurers and pimps, including Epstein’s girlfriend and daughter of Robert Maxwell, Ghislaine Maxwell. They include the media and politicians who ruthlessly discredited and silenced the victims, and strong armed anyone, including a handful of intrepid reporters, seeking to expose Epstein’s crimes and circle of accomplices.
There is a lot that remains hidden. But there are some things we know. Epstein installed hidden cameras in his opulent residences and on his private Caribbean island, Little St. James, to capture his high-powered friends engaging in sexual romps and abuse of teenage and underage girls and boys. The recordings were blackmail gold. Were they part of an intelligence operation on behalf of the Israeli Mossad? Or were they used to ensure that Epstein had a steady source of investors who funneled him millions of dollars to avoid being outed? Or were they used for both? He shuttled underage girls between New York and Palm Beach on his private jet the Lolita Express, which was allegedly outfitted with a bed for group sex. His coterie of famous friends, including Clinton and Trump, are recorded as traveling on the jet numerous times on released flight logs, although many other flight logs have disappeared.
Jeffrey Epstein Survivor Sarah Ransome Reflects on Horrific Abuse, Ghislaine Maxwell’s Sentence Law&Crime Network Jun 30, 2022 #GhislaineMaxwell #JeffreyEpstein #LawAndCrime
Jeffrey Epstein survivor Sarah Ransome reflects on the horrific abuse she endured and shares her reaction to Ghislaine Maxwell's 20-year prison sentence.
Transcript
how did that feel at that moment that they called your name you had to get up and finally look elaine in the eye it's something that i have worked very very very hard for for the last six years so that i think my my statement was about four or five minutes was the fight that i have done the highs the lows the litigation um it was all worth it just to have those three minutes looking at gillen saying what i needed to say to her did you hope that maybe she would somehow i don't know respond react anything i was hoping that um as a human being she would have felt something she would have at least acknowledged or looked or but there was none of that and that doesn't matter for me the thing for me the memory i'll take away from today that i will never forget until the rest of my world for the rest of my life was hearing guillen walk into court with a chains and that was a very somber but liberating moment for me because there's no more games i just heard the clinking clink clink clink of chains yeah that's real that's real that's reality and um [Music] you know that's i i'm disappointed i don't feel that gilean took accountability and responsibility really for the victims i think that was her addressing the victims was a bit of a sham saying i'm sorry i have a particular issue with i'm saying saying i'm sorry because not at one point when i was being raped every single day sometimes for three times a day to three times a day when gilean herself by her own hand forced me into jeffrey epstein's room to be raped did she say i'm sorry i've spent the last 17 years trying to get some form of justice trying to put together life for myself and i haven't been able to do that until today when you were wrapping up your comments i mean you tell it's heartfelt these words that you carefully crafted but they're from the heart yeah do you feel your message was perceived i know gilean knew exactly who i was when i was standing up giving my statement and although she didn't acknowledge me she knew she knew exactly my words before her and addressing guilin for the first time in 17 years is a moment i'll never forget ever you were 10 feet away from her was and her family and her family you know her i i found it very difficult with her whole entourage family being there you know especially after her very own family have victim-shamed the victims and try to discredit them and this has been a very complicated legal case and i don't think any victim should ever have to go through what i've gone through or what any epstein survivor has gone through should never have been this hard it was like being victimized again and again after the fact well it's like being raped again by the system that's exactly what it was we were raped by jeffrey and guillen and the system raped us again and you know technically uh if the fbi and the governmental institutions listened to maria farm in 1996 i wouldn't have been raped liz stein the other survivor i was 10 years old when she was being trafficked i was 10. i'm not 37 i was 10 when she was being raped now at 37 i'm turning 38 in august why has it taken this long to get one conviction and who is responsible behind that who are the people covering for these traffickers because this was an international sex trafficking ring that trafficked hundreds of children and young women into the thousands one arrest is i guess i'll take the scraps that i'm given if that's what you call it if that's what you call justice a bit of scraps like a dog but you know i'll take whatever scraps of justice i can get but this isn't justice today that was my next question 20 years was maybe a skosh more than the expected not an outrageous amount and i think most of it any add-on was because what you heard from elaine was not remorse it was not apology it was more hey i'm a victim too uh which i want to get into but you think that the 20 years not really justice i think elaine got that amount of time because of her age you know let's not forget gilean has turned 60 i think on the 25th of december 2021. um gilain won't see sunshine again she won't hear the laughter thank god of children thank god [Music] she will never be able to walk in a field with flowers she'll never be able to [Music] hear the sea again she'll never be able to touch beach sound so 20 years gilean won't last 20 years you and i both know that and i think the most difficult thing i've found more than anything no matter what gilean has done to me i don't wish her home because i'm not like her i don't want gillane to be raped i don't want gilean to be hurt because i'm not her and i just i hope she [Music] i hope she finds some form of solace or comfort for her retirement years because i don't wish pain upon any other human being no matter what they've done to me and that's the difference between gay and i because i can't i can't hurt another human being so it's sad and it's really sad that she felt that i wasn't worth anything and i'm sad that she will never see the beach and to see again because of her actions and it's something i'll never be able to understand i'm sorry i'm sorry it's okay [Music] uh [Music] okay sorry i'm so sorry i'm really glad it's you thank you [Applause] sorry okay just uh uh two two more questions one about um united states because you're sitting there as i'm sure most not sure whether she's going to say anything or not she doesn't have to and all along in this process she's been pretty close-mouthed and defiant and pretty much uh annoyed with the system that is treating her so badly you know we've heard so many complaints about how she's been treated in jail you know but made you think well she's probably got nothing to say just give me the sentence let me get on with it were you surprised when she spoke i almost fell for two actually uh liz and i looked at each other and and we couldn't believe it um [Music] i'm still trying to make sense of it but again um [Music] you can say as many stories as you want but i was raped because of you i was degraded i was humiliated i was coerced i was starved killing words fallen empty ears i can i can say whatever words i want but i've always been taught that actions speak louder than words and so she may have used the word sorry but the way she phrased everything was very deliberate you could tell i absolutely i acknowledge what everybody's been through jeffrey epstein's manipulator i'm sorry what for what you went through i'm sorry for whatever role i played i'm sorry that you had to go through this i you know it's almost like she wanted you to think well hey i'm just a victim like you folks yeah well i mean of course i mean that's carefully crafted by her lawyers so she can have an appeal so i mean that was strategic by her defense lawyers i know that you know that guillen has no remorse whatsoever but you know put on a little i'm sorry or you know um that that was for the next stage when they appeal to i think they they thought her defense seemed very clever by the way very clever if you do something wrong you want to hire those guys um she had no remorse no you know voice gillian has no soul and you know yourself what i've been through trying to take her down and the reason why i've had to go through that is because she's a dangerous human being she will re-offend re-offend and reoffend these people never stop ever and um i guess when i came out of court i was so shell-shocked i was being interviewed and now no that was a strategic uh move by her lawyers to gain sympathy gilean feels nothing for us i think if that was the plan it sort of backfired because i think the judge tacked on just a oh absolutely i have to say i have the utmost respect for judge nathan and she did pick up on that and i think i her comments afterwards she she picked out that guilin has no remorse not once not once but if you're a sociopath you would never even understand how what you're saying could possibly make your situation worse well i mean a sociopath psychopath doesn't rape thousands of young women and children so and um teach a 14 year old how to touch a middle-aged man's penis so and enjoyed it so aguilene as far as i'm concerned has only one friend left which is the one in prison that wrote that lovely note for her and uh yeah she can go make some new friends let's talk about you real quick one last question what's now that this has lifted to whatever degree it can be lifted what's what's the future so the future for me as of today today is groundbreaking for me because i've not been able to emotionally mentally spiritually physically been able to move on uh since today and i'm actually going to be going into i'm going to be studying to [Music] learn how to coach other survivors and i'm going to be doing some voluntary work with rape survivors with the charity i've chosen um to work with in my spare time be a first responder for um rape victims that email phone and uh i guess it's it's bittersweet ending for me because i've gone through that i've gone through something that i wouldn't even wish on healing i wouldn't wish on on my worst enemy and [Music] i hope that lessons have been learned and i hope that i've gained enough experience where i can be there for any other woman survivor i really want to make it very clear rape isn't just about women it's gender neutral it's class neutral it's race neutral um rapist rape so i'm going to be dedicating my life to help those those survivors that's very insightful and very generous thank you number of events into something that might help somebody else absolutely absolutely thank you thank you so much appreciate it thank you
Jeffrey Epstein survivor Jess Michaels on her story and the importance and impact of the recent news by Katie Couric and Jess Michaels Jul 28, 2025 Breaking News
Transcript
In 1991, Jess Michaels was a 22-year-old dancer living in New York when she was raped by Jeffrey Epstein. It wouldn't be until years later until she would realize there were many other victims and begin to make sense of her own experience and her own personal trauma. She's now an advocate and founder of something called Three Jo-Ann's, which is launching the social safety app called #withyou2. And Jess is here to tell her story. Gosh, Jess, this has become such a frenzy, this focus on Jeffrey Epstein. Um, I can only imagine how personally traumatic it is to see his name in the headlines day after day after day. What has that been like for you? It's it's it's been um excruciating. And it's not just his name. It's seeing his face because that was the first thing that reminded me of what had happened was when I saw his face in a in a news Julie K. Brown's provision of justice. That's when I that's when I saw it. And so, um, what that looks like is constant anxiety, insomnia, inability to eat, uh, which then weakens my body, uh, brain fog, limited mental and physical capacity, like I have to really pace out my energy so that I can get work done that I need to get done. And luckily my team understands that I I have post-traumatic stress disorder from this and so they know how to navigate having this. Um but it'sful it's everywhere. I wanted to start by going back to your own experience Jess with Jeffrey Epstein. This was July 8th, 1991, the day before your assault. You're sitting on the floor of your Brooklyn apartment feeling so excited about where your life was at the time. What do you remember most about who you were in the moment before everything s sort of changed for you? Yes, thank you for asking. Um, that 22year-old girl was a badass dancer and she was a working dancer. And I remember somebody asking me, "Well, oh, so you're an aspiring dancer?" No, I was a working dancer for a year and a half. I had worked with celebrities and that July 8th, I was sitting on the floor reading my name on an Artha Franklin paycheck for having done uh work with her as a backup dancer. I was brave. I was bold. I was on fire. and my career trajectory was was on target and accelerating. So you felt you were in a really good exciting place and tell us about how you met Jeffrey Epstein. Obviously everything changed after that but how did you end up interviewing for a job with him Jess? So, I come home from Tokyo after a dance contract, and my roommate is a dancer. Her name is Christine. Uh, Christine is telling me all about this wealthy Wall Street guy that she had started working for that was training her to do massage. Uh, and that's that's actually a really normal back in I mean, we as professional dancers, we worked on each other all the time. uh after classes, after rehearsals, uh you know during shows, it's a normal side hustle or then end trajectory after our career after we retire from our career to become to get into massage or some kind of a wellness work and or physical therapy of some kind, I imagine. Definitely. Definitely. So, she's telling me all about how this man is not only paying her to train her, but taking her all over the world on his plane. and she says, "Yeah, I you know, we fly over to Europe. I'm there for a week and I do two or three massages and I have the rest of the time to myself. He knows I'm a dancer. I can audition anytime I want and if I have a dance contract, he's okay with it." I mean, it's the dream job. And so, I'm jealous. Like, I'm I I think, wow, she's landed the perfect opportunity for a professional dancer in New York City. So, for 2 months, I'm hearing all about Jeffrey. uh Jeffrey this, Jeffrey that. And you know, at one point I I jokingly was like, "Are you sure it's only massage?" Because she seemed to really like like him. And I thought either it's more the massage or she has a crush on him. And and she said, "Yes, it's just massage." And I said, "Well, then do you have a crush on him?" And she's like, "No, I don't have a crush on him." Um so I said, "Okay." So for me, this is a trusted friend. This is somebody I trust, somebody I have known for a year and a half that I lived with for a year and a half. Um, and a day two two months or so later, she says, "Hey, guess what? I got a dance contract and Jeffrey needs a a backup masseuse. Are you interested?" Well, hell hell yeah. I'm interested. This is this feels like a wonderful opportunity. So, she gives me his address. Um, I actually I'm a big journaler, Katie. So when I was performing in New York, I didn't always have time to journal. So I actually kept all of my day planners. And so on July 8th or July um it was actually the week before July 2nd, I have in my day planner that I went to his office for an interview. I have his address. I have his phone number. I have his his assistant's name all in my day planner. So I go to his office and it was on Madison Avenue. But when I went into his office, it did not look like this posh millionaire Wall Street guy's office. It looked very stark. Uh I I was kind of surprised. I I even questioned for a minute, was he even a millionaire? So I sit down and he's he is very stoic. He's he's very stoic and he's very, you know, professional in his demeanor. He's asking me questions about the body that I I can't really answer. And so what I understand mean about the body like did I understand these muscle groups and had I heard of these techniques and I hadn't and so I felt off a little offguard like oh I don't know as much as I thought I did and he said okay come around here to the other side of the desk. So he opens the drawer that's like the file cabinet depth drawer and there are a dozen books all the same book and it says the book of massage. So he hands me a book and he said, "You're going to have to study this." And I left there thinking, "Oh my gosh, I'm not going to get this job. I thought this was going to be much easier. I thought Christine was going to vouch for me." And so being the overachiever that I am, the first thing that I did was I run over to a store and I grab a three subject notebook. I go home and I start studying that book. Well, like making notes, filling that three subject notebook. Christine comes home later that day and she said, "Oh, Jeffree liked you. So, you can call his his office and call his assistant and make an appointment for a trial massage." And I'm thinking, "Woohoo! I am in cuz I know I can do this. I I've worked hard. I've studied it. I know all the muscle groups. I know like 10 different hand positions for massage. I am on top of this. I even create a little cheat sheet to bring with me to to the address." So July 9th, I go to this penthouse. Uh there's a doorman that lets me up with a key and the door opens to this foyer. And I go around the foyer and there is a sunken living room and there are floor to ceiling windows. I mean the I go, "Oh, he really is a millionaire." And I hear from the back room. I'll be right out. So, I walk in and I'm looking around, you know, looking out the windows and he comes out in a white bathrobe and I'm me, the overachiever, and I'm pretty bold and I'm I I was pretty brave at that time. And and I asked him, "So, why do you hire professional dancers to do massage when clearly you could hire professional massus?" And he what I see now is leans into my ego and he goes, "Oh, dancers have such beautiful bodies. Dancers know how to train them. They know all about the body, how the body works. They know they know um how to take care of the body. And you wouldn't want a fat personal trainer, would you?" And this is when the moment like there were a couple of moments where everything changes and this was the first one. and he takes off his bathrobe and he's completely naked and he said, "And dancers are comfortable with nudity." Well, I was really taken aback because Christine had not told me about nudity nudity. He had not told me about nudity, but I'm trying to be professional in that moment. And I was like, "Okay, this is how it goes." And the book that I looked at had professional draping, but we didn't really have that. He just had a towel and he put it on the floor. He didn't even make eye contact. He just and he didn't ask me. He told me dancers are comfortable with nudity. And he threw the ta towel on the floor and he laid down on his stomach first and I said, "Okay." And I I grabbed my cheat sheet and I'm telling him about all the different hand positions that I learned and and he is talking about massage, talking about all the places he's been, all the different types of techniques that he's used. and and and it slowly goes from talking about massage to making sexual jokes. And I'm not really I I I instantly get uncomfortable. Um but I'm like, you know, because that's what we do. And he abruptly stops and sits up and he goes, "You're doing it wrong." His demeanor change. It was like a a switch flipped. And he said, "I'm going to have to show you on your body. Take your dress off. It's like it's it's not a big deal. This is just how you learn massage." And it was at that moment, like, if I were to explain a moment where I felt like my body just started to numb out and my brain started to get foggy and I started to experience a sense of numbness, it was in that moment. And um I took off my dress and I laid down. And a lot of people say that, and this is why I couldn't relate when I would hear these things. A lot of people say, "Oh, I I left my body and I could see what was happening when he raped me." That's not what happened to me. It was as if I fell backwards into my body and and the my eyes were so far away for me to see out of. I couldn't. It was like I was falling back and trying to uh get back to myself in that moment. Um he raped me and then he got up abruptly, went over, grabbed a couple of dollars, a couple hundred dollar bills out of his robe, threw them on the table, and said, "Call my call my assistant next week for another appointment. What were you feeling when he did that? That's a great question because at that moment I could not believe what had just happened and he walked out of the room. He didn't even stay in the room while I got dressed. So, I was I was getting dressed and I was confused and I I picked up the money and it felt so disgusting and and I was and I I didn't I couldn't I couldn't put pieces together. So, one of the things that I want people to understand what happens when you freeze is that when that freeze trauma response begins in the body, it doesn't just you don't just get brain foggy. That's not what happens. What's actually happening in your body is that defensive system shuts down your executive function, your ability to make decisions. I left that building and got on the subway going the wrong way. I was so confused and just um felt like I don't the only way I could I felt disgusting. I felt covered in vomit. Like if you were walking around with a smell and I felt like when I stood on that subway platform, everybody could smell it and everybody was looking at me. And I I I knew that something had shifted in my life and in my brain and in my body in that moment. Did you talk to your friend who had connected you and tell her what happened? Jess, so she had been away. That's a great question and and a lot of people ask that. So, she had been away when this happened cuz she went on that dance contract. Um, I ended up going on a sec a a a contract to Tokyo again to to do some modeling. I was gone for 2 months and I was so scared when I was when I I was leaving from Tokyo and I I talked to a friend. I said, "I'm really scared to go back to New York." And I couldn't verbalize why, but as soon as I got back to New York, I was out of that apartment within 24 hours. I moved out of New York City. I never spoke to her again. And she never reached back out to me again either. I thought I was the only one because I thought my friend would never do that. My friend would never That can't possibly be happening to her because she would never. So I thought it was just me. I thought I was the only one. And do you think it was happening to her? Have you ever been able to piece that together? Yes. Um I learned after all of this came out with Julie K. Brown's article and I started sharing with my family and a mutual friend who was her roommate after me. Christine was working for Jeffrey Epstein for at minimum 8 years from 1991 uh till 1998 and potentially longer. She tried to get that mutual friend to him. She was also adult. I want to I want to also be clear. She was 23 years old and recruiting. She was what I call the Galain Maxwell before there was a Galain Maxwell. The next morning or the next day rather, I I know you went to work and you have a friend or had a friend named Joanne and she realized something was wrong with you. Tell us what happened. Yeah, I was a scholarship student at Steps on Broadway and so I was going in for my scholarship work study where we work the desk to pay for classes. So I walk in and she's at the front desk and she's like, "Hey, what happened?" Cuz I had told her about this. I mean, and it could have been an opportunity for her too, right? Like, so I told her about, she looked at, she's like, "Hey, how are you doing?" And I I mute. She asks me two more times, and I can't even speak. And she looks at me, she grabs my hand, pulls me into the office, and I sit down sobbing. And I told her a fraction of what happened because I was really humiliated to tell her everything that happened. And with her only knowing a fraction of it, she looked me, she grabbed my shoulders, and she looked at me and she said, "We need to go to the police." And it was in that moment that I recognized how bad it was. And it was in that moment that I thought, "Wait a minute. Nobody's who's going to believe me, a 22-year-old dancer over Jeffrey Epstein." And I had walked right past that same door man that had let me up as if nothing happened cuz I was still in shock. So who who's going to believe me? I know that you also felt that there would be a lack of belief in your story, Jess, because you didn't quote unquote fight back. Yes. Yes. And I think we have since learned that what you experienced is a common response that victims of sexual assault have when they freeze. They leave their body and that is really a reaction that many people have when this happens to them. It is it is completely normal. We didn't start talking about the freeze response from a trauma perspective I think until the beginning 2000s. And what I understood of the law being an 80s and 90s um girl, like 80s girl growing up and launching into the world at 22 was that rape was determined by how much you resisted. And so I I froze. I I and I thought it was a moral failing on my part. So, so I thought that if I the law determined whether I had been injured and so since the law was saying I wasn't I wasn't assaulted I I must be so stupid. And so I really internalized that and thought I must be so stupid I can't even protect myself in the world. I can no longer I got betrayed by my body. I can't trust my own body. I can't trust the people around me and I can't trust walking around in this world and I cannot tell you how devastating that is to be that age where you're launching into your life and and know going from infinite amounts of confidence and and bravado and probably a lot of ego at 22, right? and and I turned into what I turned into a mouse of a girl. You didn't see your friend Joanne who urged you to go to the police for 30 years after that. I was so embarrassed to even talk to her. I didn't I didn't talk to her again because she knew. But the other thing is Katie, and this is what I think was so interesting and sad when I looked back at as I looked at her and I thought Joanne would have never froze. I'm sure that you've gone back and relived this many many times, Jess, that that whole encounter. [Music] And I'm curious. I think some people listening to this will say, why why did Jess disrobe when he did you believe he was really going to teach you techniques? Did you was that part of the kind of freezing situation that you experienced? Yeah, that's a really uh a really important question because what I have what I know now and what I understand about grooming, how she had groomed me for those two months before to to that this is normal that she was doing great that she was happy and successful and she was able to do all of her other things and he had his contacts was going to help her. What I know now is that he was actually setting me up to feel like I didn't know what I was doing so that he could be the authority. So in that moment what happens besides the palatial wealth that I was surrounded by he was setting himself up as he knew. And so I trusted him while I was scared while I was nervous because I thought Christine this you know Christine wouldn't do this to me. Christine wouldn't put me in this type of position. You experienced severe PTSD following your rape. What What can you tell us about your symptoms and how it changed your life uh forever really in so many ways? Yeah, there's a way that I explain it really. It was like a part of me collapsed internally and went to sleep and it's only been through, you know, 7 years of trauma therapy now. Um, that part went asleep at 22 and I woke up in menopause. I lost that quality of life for all of that time. Um, what happened me in that moment was within two weeks I broke out in this cystic like acne all over my face. Within 3 months, I was dealing with severe stomach upset, gastrointestinal, um, issues, insomnia. Um, and within 6 months, um, I'd gone shopping with a friend and I was joking around and I was pulling on a pair of jeans and then pulling them off. I was like, "Oh my gosh, look at that." And I could pull a pair of size zero jeans down off of my hips without unbuttoning them. And she said, "Yeah, I wanted to talk to you about that." She thought I had an eating disorder. I didn't have an eating disorder. What I think was happening in my body because I had a very physical physical response to this trauma was my my body could not digest what happened anymore than my brain could process it. So, how did you I mean, how did you go on? How did you support yourself? You know, what was your life like, Jess, after that? you were 22 and suddenly you're dealing with PTSD. Uh were you able to keep dancing? Tell me what happened to you. So firstly, I also want to say something that I think is really important is that um I hate the word PTSD vehemently because it sounds like I'm disordered rather than that somebody injured me. And so there is a movement of calling it post-traumatic stress or post-traumatic stress injury, PTSI. And that's the phrasing I feel is more accurate because I'm not dis I'm not disordered. Somebody injured me. I am injured. I'm living with a brain and nervous system injury as are all survivors of sexual assault if they didn't get to safety immediately after um a traumatic event. That's so important. Thank you for explaining that to me. Mhm. Thank you for hearing me. Um, so I I tried twice to go back to New York and I just could never get back to that feeling of like of of of confidence. I was now nervous about going to auditions. I was proverating on failures. And this this was an analogy that I explained to someone. They're like, "Oh, that makes a lot of sense." So it was like the moment like when I froze, it was like my brain took it and put that experience of seeing his face on top of me and it put it in this steel vault in the back of my brain with a big sign on it that said, "I am stupid and this is why." And every time I made a mistake, every time I failed in some way, every time I couldn't get up the courage to do something, I it was like this this sign would say, "You're stupid, Jessica, and this is why." And it was this constant constant reminder which made me constantly seeking validation, seeking safety, seeking saviors in relationships, seeking um interestingly seeking sensation because I didn't realize how numb I had become even in my own body. I was so disconnected from my own body. I was so disconnected that I had tried when I was I was I did try to do one show. It was a really bad show. I literally went from working with celebrities to then working like in Atlantic City. It was horrible. I worked in Atlantic City and I did a show and I started having I didn't realize I I had worn shoes that were too small. I kept wearing shoes that were too small and I started getting holes burrowing in between my pinky toe and the and the and the um fourth toe. And I I couldn't quite I was like, "Oh, I'll just wait till my feet numb out in the first number." And I just kept dancing on it because even the sensation of having feet felt good. Fast forward and you start hearing about Jeffrey Epstein in the news. Florida prosecutors knew Epstein raped teenage girls two years before they cut a deal with him, apparently. Uh, but this was the result of a grand jury investigation and he did a plea deal. So, you weren't aware of that. When was the first time you started hearing Jeffrey Epstein's name in the news? It's 2018. Um, and I'm scrolling through my phone and I see his face for the first time. And when I see his face for the first time, my whole body just starts to go into panic. And I don't remember his name. I I I look at it and um as I mentioned, I told my therapist, I said I sent her the link to the article. I said, "I think this is the guy that raped me when I was um in New York at 22." And she's like, "Okay, just let's calm you down. Don't read the articles yet." So, I had to know. I went and I looked through my day planners, found my 1991 day day planner, found his name in it, and decided, "No, I'm going to read those articles. I want to see what they're saying." And I sat there, and over and over again, I just kept thinking, "Oh my god, it wasn't my fault. I'm not the only one." And I it was this really bizarre mix of being completely traumatized and feeling this weight that you didn't know you were carrying lift off of your body. It was it's a very bizarre feeling to feel both of those extremes at the same time and to recognize that I had gotten it wrong. Like I I had I had gotten it wrong for 30 years. Did you ever talk to any of the other victims? Yes. So, um I have spoken to several of the other victims. We have connected um uh and developed friendships. Um some some it they've fluctuated over the time. All I can tell you from the the the women that I've been speaking to that this is this is a a really painful time uh for this to be resurfacing in this way and not not in a we're finally getting justice way. In what way do you think it is resurfacing? It is. So, one of the one of the problems that I think has happened in our culture is that we don't believe women have pain. We don't believe in women's pain when they say it. And if you actually go back and you look at all of the interviews that these these women did have been doing for for years to say this has been happening, right? to then have an administration that says, "Yeah, there's nothing to see here, and we're just going to close this investigation." It's a moment where it's not just us anymore. It's every single woman who has ever been uh sexually assaulted or raped and had somebody tell them, "Your your your pain doesn't matter. We don't believe you. We're not going to bother investigating this." Because that's actually what happens all the time. It it happens all the time. We're not going to bother investigating this at all. And where I think it's truly problematic is that they're even considering considering the fact that it is being discussed at all of of a pardon or a lesser sentence for a pedophile in this um in this trafficking ring to let that person. It's not just that it's going to be really unsafe because that's the word of the day for this interview. Safety. It's all about safety, right? like if if I am not un if I don't feel safe, I experience trauma and then I experience post-traumatic stress disorder over time. Everybody is every abstinence survivor is reexperiencing that sense of unsafe. But it's not just unsafe for us. It's unsafe for every single person that has a child. Did you know Virginia Chu Fray uh who took her own life um which was so heartbreaking and she was one of the people who really spoke out and made a big difference in this whole case. I never got to talk to Virginia. And it's something that I really regret because if it hadn't been for those first four girls that came forward and then her strength of not letting this go, speaking out, speaking out, speaking out on it um regularly to be heard. Um I I they saved my life. She saved my life. Her speaking out allowed me to believe that maybe I deserved to heal. When you heard that she had taken her own life, what was your reaction? I was devastated because I thought if she can't overcome it, how how am I going to, you know, if she can't get past it, you know? Um, I think it she she had the weight of all of the men in her life that had damaged her. That's what she she died from was that that wound. And um it was devastating. Um, and I was sad because I'd really wanted to reach out to her and I felt terrible that I didn't. And it's um you know, people wonder why I'm speaking now and why I'm an advocate now. And part of the reason is because I didn't have the capacity to speak up in 1991. I didn't I didn't I didn't h I hadn't gone through any therapy about it. I hadn't I I hadn't been able to. And it was watching Virginia do it and and keep going that it it it inspired me to to heal enough to be able to sit here with you and do this interview. So it was it was pretty devastating when you learned the extent of this trafficking and the sexual assault and sort of this whole organized really ring of people who were sexually assaulting and abusing underage girls and raping them. Yeah. Were you shocked at the when you understood the whole picture? I mean, do we really even know the whole picture now? I mean, I think it's that big an uh of an issue and I think it's only I think we've only scratched the surface of it. But um when I read that article, the second person that I sent it to was my friend who was a private investigator. And I I said, "Hey, this man raped me. Should I be going to the police now?" And um she called me right away and she said, "I know who this man is. It is not safe for you to go to the police because you don't know who's in whose pocket and you're going to have to take this to your grave." She said that in December of 2018. I happened to be at her house in July uh of of 2019. We had a bunch of friends over and we were we were watching a movie when uh he was arrested. Breaking news. Jeffrey Epstein arrested at Teterboro Airport. And I look across the room and she says to me, "You can talk now." And so the FBI started asking us to come forward. I still I only knew what was in perversion of justice and I could only like imagine I I didn't I didn't I couldn't go too deep into learning anymore. That's all I knew was what Julie K. Brown wrote in that article. So the FBI asks us to come forward. Um I I don't come forward right away because I have work things and she said, "Don't worry about it. This is going to be in courts for years. You know, finish your five week work speaking stint and then you can do that after." So, I literally am coming back from on a plane in my car when I start getting texts that he's dead. And the FBI is still asking us to come forward. We're still getting those uh commercials with the phone numbers. So, I call up the FBI in 2019, tell them speak to a switchboard. They had a whole switchboard line just just up for victims. They uh somebody calls me back from the New York sex trafficking office and I tell him about Christine. I tell him what happened to me, but I tell him about Christine and his response was, "Look, we have to call everybody back that calls in, but it was 30 years ago. What What do you want us to do now?" So, I'm I'm thinking two things. I'm like, maybe this isn't as big a deal as I think it is or it's a really big deal and and and nobody's listening now. So, I I couldn't discern how big it was then. It's only been over time that uh and it was really during the Glain Maxwell trial that I that I recognized how deep it was. I still I don't dive into Epstein lore. I just don't. Having said that, there's been so much focus on these files and releasing these files and a promise, a campaign promise really that these files would become public. And as recently as a few months ago, Pam Bondi, the attorney general, saying they were waiting on her desk to be reviewed. What do you think? What do you think is in those files? It's our victim statements. And what else? All of the survivors, all all this. Okay, this is this is what I think is really important that people are missing. They think there and there may be like we know we know he recorded when when I finally actually spoke to um an agent FBI agent that actually took my interview a year and a half later after me badgering the FBI to listen to me about Christine. Um she asked me in if in 1991 were there any cameras that I could see? Did I know if there were any cameras? And I said I wouldn't have even thought to look for that. So, we know there are videos somewhere. That's a fact. That's not conspiracy theory. Everybody knows this and survivors told us this. I think the frustrating thing is everybody keeps saying, "What's in the files? What's in the survivors impact statements where we told you exactly what happened for us?" And survivors that told who they were with. So if we just actually believed the women that have even put their own lives on the line, you know, it's easier for me to talk to because I'm I I only met him. I was raped by him. I didn't meet Galain Maxwell. I didn't meet any of these um these other men, but these women did and they told us and no one's listening. It is so uh strange. I know that you have 1991 Epstein survivor in your social media bios and a commentator said talking about you being sexually assaulted by Jeffrey Epstein is not a flex. Some things need to be kept inside and not shared with the whole world. Putting it in your bio is embarrassing. What would you say to that commenter, Jess? I was very purposeful when I did that. I couldn't say his name for 30 years. I am not protecting a rapist ever. And that's what we do, right? That's how that's how sexual harm and trafficking perpetuate is. We all stay silent. We don't talk about the names. And so um and and we we say the the victim should be embarrassed for saying this. And I'm I'm going to go with um what Chiselle Pelico had said like shame needs to change sides. I am a survivor of this um of this man. Um I think that uh I don't need to protect his name in any way. Um I was supposed to never say it. It was supposed to stay quiet. Um, and there's that's important to me. Um, he used his name to get to do all of the horrific things that he did. You know what I'm saying? I'm an Epstein survivor. So, I am making it known that I am using his name to change this tragedy. So that's why I say his name. But there's another reason why I say 1991. I say 1991 because no one wants to talk about the '9s. This was happening much longer than anyone is talking about. When I saw the number of books sitting in Jeffrey Epstein's desk, the book of massage, there were there were a dozen books. I'm not even the earliest survivor and no one is talking about that. When I hear things like Donald Trump saying, "Oh, I I broke it off with that guy, right? I broke it off. I don't I don't see him." Look, we've all been through a divorce, right? We've all been through a divorce. That doesn't disregard the romance, the honeymoon, and all the things that happened in that 15-year marriage, right? Just because you went through a divorce. And that's all I'm gonna say on that. Well, Donald Trump has really been downplaying the controversy and even saying, quote, "He doesn't understand why the Jeffrey Epstein case would be of interest to anybody." What would you say to Donald Trump if you were able to have a face-to-face conversation with him? I think it goes back to the exact same thing I was saying before is that um give me give me one second. I want to answer that and I I I have a I have something that I want to say. This is a moment where this administration gets to prove that they care about women. That's one of the things they campaigned on. We never cared about women more. But if you're not believing women, if you're not believing when we say we have pain, we've been harmed, then it you're not caring about them. So actions speak louder than words, right? And when we say believe women, we mean believe women's pain over men's comfort. Do you think people would be shocked, Jess, at the quote unquote boldfaced names that had interacted with Jeffrey Epstein, not only in the '9s, but up until the time he was convicted. Yes, because uh this is the other reason I say Epstein's name. I say it because I'm going to get your attention when I'm talking and I'm advocating and I'm speaking at schools, right? You're going to hear me and you're going to listen. But one of the other things that I say is that's how I get you to listen. But now the truth is it's our brothers, our uncles, our neighbors, our dads, our our representatives on the state level and then on the city level. It's our teachers. It's our attorneys. This is pervasive in every area of our world. So, if we're going to ignore Jeffrey Epstein and what he's doing on a really clear clear uh and the people that were part of this ring, if we're going to ignore them, then then we have no chance on the on the local level. Uh we have no chance of being safe and no chance of ever changing this this this tragedy. It's a a $127 billion societal burden. That's from CDC numbers. The the cost, the health damage that is done to a victim, the the the the loss of productivity, the loss of education, the loss of relationships and broken families. I mean, it is it is a it is a big problem. And you know, after Sandy Hook, we have a hund we have uh active shooter drills in every single school in our country. And yet our children are 117 times more likely to experience sexual assault than ever be in an active shooter situation, even at the rates that we're at. And we have nothing. We have no plan. We have no this is not viewed as a tragedy. This is not like there's it's we're not believing that it's actually happening to women. We're not and and so if if he's think if this is going to go on the way it is where there's the the fact that it's even a potential to pardon we don't believe women's pain we don't believe this is a tragedy of of facing what do you think the endgame is for the department of justice as you know last week the deputy attorney general Todd Blanch met with uh Gilain Maxwell and discussed her coming forward and talking and in exchange for perhaps a reduced sentence or even a pardon. What do you think she's going to say? What do you think they're looking for from her? I don't know. I can't answer that question. But what I can tell you um from my perspective, from survivors perspective is that if you are willing to protect and en and enable a pedophile in this way, protect them and get them off, then you you are creating an unsafe environment not only for uh Epstein survivors, but for every parent that has a child, every every per every person that has ever felt unsafe to tell law enforcement the justice system find a lawyer like survivors are not going to believe in the justice system ever again. What do you think the reaction will be from survivors of Jeffrey Epstein who was enabled and uh supported by Gelain Maxwell if she does get a reduced sentence or is even granted a pardon by the Trump administration? I can only go back to the the the the quote like Maya Angelo quote which is like when people show you who they are, believe them. And so it's like I said, it's not just going to make Epstein survivors feel unsafe, feel the degree of injustice. What I think they're underestimating is is now that we have been in this fight for years, 20 years. Maria Farmer since 1996. I think there's a really um there's a a real underestimation of the amount of rage that people will have over this and the amount of people that are actually hearing us. I did a Tik Tok on on this and it got 2.5 million views with half a million likes and people in the comments saying we are here for you. like the most support I have ever seen for this issue. So I think the hope by the administration is that this is going to blow over and they don't realize that that they're they're toying with generations of sexual assault that I think women are done women are done with. women are done with or everyone is done with because there are a lot of people It's true. It's true. You're right. A lot of people who are supportive of Donald Trump or voted for him who are outraged that he is glossing this over and hoping it goes away. Yeah, I I'm I will correct. You are you are correct. everyone is recognizing that this is a line u child child um sex trafficking is a line in the sand. Sadly, that's been the only thing that uh has raised any awareness to um to this issue. Yeah. To this issue. Well, you know, I know that the focus on underage girls, um, clearly that has been a big emphasis of what Jeffrey Epstein and Gelain Maxwell did. But you feel it's also important to focus on women who were your age, who were 22 and who experienced some of these same crimes. Yeah. There's something that happens for women when we cross this imaginary line of 18 years old and we are suddenly legal. There's a level of responsibility for being assaulted that is assigned to us that is that is inaccurate. There's a level of like we should have known better. Um I can't tell you how many people are in my comments going, "Well, you just wanted the money. I went to a job interview. I went to a job interview." But somehow there it's it's a really difficult leap for some people to make that um it doesn't matter that I've crossed the line of 18, 19, 20, 21. It doesn't matter. Rape is never good. Rape is there's never a time where it's like, well, this is better than that. There's never a time or you were you're more responsible for what happened at that age. You shouldn't have gone to that nightclub. You shouldn't have left your drink alone. You shouldn't have worn that. You shouldn't have gone with those people. You shouldn't have gone to that party. There's a million different ways that we're constantly telling women they are responsible. And that's goes back to what I was saying like people don't when that whole the whole period of time where it's like believe women believe women. We're not saying believe women and and throw out all evidence uh as if we're in a you know court of law. We're saying believe women that an injury happened that after 18 doesn't make it our fault. Like that doesn't bear any more responsibility for rape than it did when we were 16 or 17. Tell us about what you're doing now to help victims of sexual assault. Jess, thank you for asking. Um, so for the last 5 years, I have been studying trauma and to understand what happened in my body. Um, I just want to tell a quick quick story that I think is really important and this is what got me on the road to um really trying to explain the freeze trauma response as simply and understandably as people can understand. So, I was in my therapist office and we were discussing freeze. I just still could not get it through my head. And my therapist said, "It's like when your hand goes on a hot stove and it automatically pops off. You don't have to think about it. You don't make a decision. It's that it's automatic and it's involuntary. happens without you deciding. And it happens in animals. A deer in the headlights. Uh, a possum plays dead. Um, in my comments when I first started posting, um, um, uh, a veteran came on and said, "Yes, ma'am. Um, soldiers freeze, too. Trained soldiers freeze. It is it is known." And I said to her, "Yeah, but I just cuz I couldn't grasp it. It wasn't some moral failing." And I said, "But why did I freeze? Why did I freeze?" and she said, "Jessica, it's because you have a really good brain that protected you and kept you alive." So, tell me about how you're trying to help other people. One of the things that I realized um pretty early on was that everyone really struggles with knowing what to say or do after an assault. So, I'm going to even give you an example here. If I said to you, "Oh my god, I called you in the morning. I said, "Katie, I went out last night and I I was raped." Our first thought is what? Call the police. Right? Like that's what we say. Just like my friend Joanne did. But if I called you in the morning and I said, "Katie, I went out last night and I got into a car accident." You would say, "Are you okay?" Because we recognize that in car accidents we have injuries. And and and we're not well and we're shaken up. But the the response to sexual harm is right away crime. Crime. We need evidence. Let's get a rape kit, get him to the police station. Well, none of that regulates my nervous system. None of that helps me calm down and feel safe. And what I realized um after talking with my co-founder who's a trauma recovery coach and is in rape um is a rape crisis counselor in hospital, she said, "Yeah, even when people do go to a hospital, 80 85% of the time they go all by themselves. They're there by themselves. Nobody wants to have anybody called. So the stigma stops people from getting to safety. Stops people from getting to a safe place and safe people right after something happens. And so I have developed a social safety app called with you too. And everyone thinks oh you're going to it's for survivors. And I said no it's for everyone else. It's for everyone else to understand around them what's happening in the first 24 to 72 hours. What is happening in that first week to two weeks afterwards? Because that's the other thing. I would share what happened to me with people and then I would never hear about it again. I think they didn't want to bring it up because they thought it would hurt me. But the news is saying his name all the time. I have a couple of select friends that are also advocates and they're like, "Hey, this news cycle is really heavy. How are you doing?" And I'm like, "I'm in bed about 10 hours out a day, but I'm fine." You know, they're they they know to check in on me. they know to see how I'm doing. I had a friend that um sent me a Uber Eats gift card because she knew I couldn't get out of bed. So, what what I've set up in in our app um in addition to just connection, how do we feel safe with people? So, we start talking about connection when it's not a crisis. We start talking about connection and how mental health works when it's not a a a national tragedy. And then so how to support how to support survivors and victims. Yeah. So that we can be safe and I can know that if you're in my circle of people, you've already learned a little bit about the freeze trauma response that that's really normal and I'm going to feel safe with you, Katie, because I know that that you understand freeze. And so then I'm surrounded in safety. Then and only then do we focus on justice and accountability. But we keep skipping over the injury. Going back to women are not believed that they experienced harm. Women aren't our pain is not believed. Has never been believed. Speaking of that, do you think there will ever be justice for the victims of Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know. So all I know for me is that I had to make my own justice and I had to use this experience and what I know I do well which is educating on complex things and taking them down to understandable levels and make my own form of justice. I don't have much faith sadly in the systems that are supposed to protect us. I don't. And so I am doing it on my own. And I guess it's it's as much accountability for the perpetrators as it is justice for the victims. Do you think there will ever be accountability for the people who participated in in all of these things? I'm going to go back to saying what I said earlier, too. So this is this is a um an example of what happens on on every level for a sexual assault. So on a local level, on a city level, on a state level, on a national level, this is an example of exactly what happens. Very very little accountability ever. I think 2% actually uh are held account accountable. Um, it's not it's not a crime that people recognize the harm and and and then focus on how do we get accountability? They just don't because they don't believe us. They don't believe us. The biggest thing that I see in my comments because I'm really trying to learn from my comments, what are people commenting on? Even the negative ones, why didn't you report? Everybody thinks it is safe for us to go report and it just isn't. We are not believed when we walk in that door. In fact, we are interrogated. So, what I'm trying to do in shifting this is that is that the recognition that sexual assault is an injury first that demands first aid care before it is an interrogation or an investigation. We take someone and we make sure they're safe. That's going to benefit everyone because then we're actually going to get to details. the the brain is going to calm down, the nervous system is going to calm down. We're going to have a better time of of remembering what happened and being able to give details, but that never happens. Never happens. So, this is no different than any other case. And and the thing is is that this administration could have had a a moment of heroism. And that's how they tried to play it out when Pam Pondi like this this could have been could have been, you know, a moment where everything changed and they were standing on law and order, right? It could have been. And why do you think And why do you think they changed their minds? I think there's information in there that they don't want anybody to see. They There's information in there. There are victim statements. There are videos. There are pictures. There there are maybe not one list, but there are lists that survivors gave and they don't want anybody to know who who they are because it will disrupt um this the status quo as it stands right now. Jess Michaels, thank you so much for spending some time with me and telling your story. We really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you for being willing to sit and listen because that's the other thing that's missing right now.
BOMBSHELL! Jamie Dimon Is Part Of Jeffrey Epstein’s Web Of Corruption! by Jimmy Dore and Whitney Webb The Jimmy Dore Show Apr 16, 2023 #TheJimmyDoreShow
JP Morgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon is being forced to testify in a civil suit about his connection to late financier/sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein. As journalist Whitney Webb explains, the sordid ties between not only Epstein and Dimon, but also many of the biggest names in the growth of the financial service sector over the past 40 years, along with the government and organized crime reveal an unprecedented web of corruption and sleaze.
Jimmy and Americans’ Comedian Kurt Metzger talk to Webb about the details of this story she’s uncovered in her reporting.
Transcript
we have special guests with us uh Whitney Webb is a writer researcher investigative journalist and an expert on the Jeffrey Epstein case her new book about the Epstein cases One Nation Under blackmail she also writes for a number of different Publications including her own site unlimitedhangout.com welcome to the show Whitney hey great to be here good to have you back now I want to tell people about you have uh what's going on you have a new article out but so JP Morgan CEO Jamie dimon is to be deposed on the Epstein lawsuits right and so now here's this article that you wrote the rise of Jamie Diamond and it gives all the background information you'd ever want to know about how Jeffrey uh Jamie dimon got to be Jamie dimon in the head of that bank earlier this month a judge ruled that two different lawsuits against JP Morgan Chase over the bank's ties to deceased financier and pedophile Jeffrey Epstein would be allowed to advance in U.S courts it's funny nobody ever can find out all the financing he did nobody can find it one of the one of these cases brought against the bank by the U.S Virgin Islands USVI has been a particular focus of Independent Media since the New Year began in part because the Attorney General of the Virgin Islands Denise George was fired from her post just days after she filed the case it's hearing in a hearing in the Virgin Islands case against JP Morgan earlier this month a Virgin Islands lawyer argued that the CEO of J.P Morgan JB diamond knew in 2008 that his billionaire client Jeffrey Epstein was a sex trafficker the lawyer Mimi Liu also stated that former JP Morgan Jess Staley also knew this about Epstein at the time but noted this case was not just Jess daily there will be numerous documents that go far beyond his office to the Executive Suite Liu also asserted that Staley knew Diamond new JP Morgan Chase knew about Epstein's criminal activities against minors while the bank has disputed that diamond knew anything about Epstein's Accounts at the bank or what he was really up to at that time the unlimited hangout investigation a multi-part series will reveal that Jamie diamonds rise to the top post at JP Morgan was intimately linked to the very same group of people who enabled Jeffrey Epstein's sex trafficking activities as well as his extensive Financial crimes so let's bring in the author of this new article at unlimited hangout Whitney Webb Whitney great job uh this is kind of mind-blowing the connection between Jeffrey Epson and Jamie dimon and well of course right of course of people who run all the banks which are kind of running our society now are in bed with the CIA which is Jeffrey Epstein right and that's why they had that sex Island so they can compromise powerful people right well it's even worse than that if you can believe that uh but yeah essentially the same people responsible for Jeffrey Epstein are the same people for responsible for making Jamie dimon uh one of the if not the most powerful Banker on Wall Street right now uh and considering what we're seeing with the current banking crisis and uh intentional uh government policy to convince depositors to put their money in too big to fail Banks like JPMorgan Chase um this stuff is more important than ever because essentially depositors are being told we should you know be putting our money is safest in these two big to fail Banks and these Banks of course um have engaged in extreme criminal activity over the years and have been never never been held accountable essentially and Jamie diamonds rise to power has depended extensively on that model um so he actually started off uh creating what is now Citigroup with his mentor Sandy Weil and he actually used a very suspicious intelligence linked company uh tied to a bunch of CIA veterans that was involved in Middle East Arms deals in the OR financing Airlines involved in Middle East Arms deals for what's been referred to as the private CIA called Commercial Credit Corporation in the mid-1980s and that was the that was the beginning of what is now Citigroup and Sandy Weil and Diamond used that as a vehicle and through several mergers and Acquisitions of other Banks created essentially the two big to fail model um and we're instrumental in things like the repeal of the glass-steagall act for example and so after sort of living in this guy's Shadow Sandy Weil his mentor there was sort of an ego battle between the two and Diamond was forced out of Citigroup in 1998 and was basically left without a job can I ask you a quick question so this guy's same Sandy Weil was he involved with the merger of Citigroup and was it Travelers or what Travelers group he was the head of Travelers he was the head of travel that was working with Robert Rubin okay who by the way signed off on Jeffrey Epstein's first ever White House visit uh to have glass-steagall repealed okay so when they connect when they combine travelers insurance with Citigroup or CitiBank at the time that created the biggest Financial monstrosity in the history of the world yeah and and Robert Rubin got a job there after he repealed repealed glass people and tell people who Robert Rubin is now he was Secretary of Treasury under uh Clinton prior to that he was head of Goldman Sachs at the time when for example Goldman's tax was on the hook for enabling a lot of Robert Maxwell's Financial crimes after his death and he was a director of the National Economic Council uh initially before he was treasury secretary under the Clinton Administration and that's when he signed off on Jeffrey Epstein's first ever visit to the White House and so some sort of and so what is his connection with uh Robert now Robert Maxwell is jizlane Maxwell's father right yeah so that's the connection there to and with Epstein and so what is Reuben's connection with uh that with Epstein he signed off on Epstein's first ever visit to the White House Robert Rubin invited Epstein to the White House in the beginning of 1993. but before that he had been involved with the Fallout regarding Goldman Sachs role in um Robert Maxwell's theft of pension fund money for the mirror Group which was one of the biggest controversies after his uh death in 1991. isn't this amazing look at these webs look at these webs so so Robert Maxwell's involved in this big Financial Scandal Robert Rubin who goes on to beat Bill Clinton Secretary of the Treasury is involved in that and then Epstein and jizz Lane Maxwell I mean this is really going to the White House all these Clinton fundraisers in 1993 why Ruben's Head of the National Economic Council inviting Epstein to meetings about economic policy and at the same time Epstein had just been involved and his name was mysteriously dropped from the case uh Prosecuting one of the biggest Ponzi schemes in U.S history that Epstein was named as The Mastermind of during grand jury proceedings his name just gets dropped from the case all of a sudden and then he's invited by Robert Rubin to come discuss uh economic policy and so and so it is clear that Jeffrey Epstein was uh working with the intelligence community and the reason why they had that sex Island and the Lolita Express was to compromise powerful people and so that the intelligence Community or the you know whoever is the establishment that really runs things that it could have compromise compromat on those people and so now they can control them right including people including people like like uh princes and ex-presidents right but again it's it's more than Epstein wasn't just about sex trafficking he was also making powerful people a lot of money and he was involved in a lot of extreme Financial crimes including massive Ponzi schemes and uh money laundering and you know pretty much every Financial crime under the sun he was involved extensively not unlike Robert Maxwell right who again had his own links to intelligence Services um and in involved in things like the promise software Scandal but he was also involved in a lot of financial criminality which only really came to light after his death and it's really not that not that different with Epstein but what this particular case in the Virgin Islands is exposing is that JP Morgan Executives knew that Epstein uh was not doing what they said he was doing so for example it's already come out as part of this court case that um the financial activity on Epstein's accounts that JP Morgan was not consistent with any sort of client-based business so at the time Epstein was supposed to be a a financial advisor to billionaires but there was no evidence that he had any sort of client uh based business at all based on his financial flows and it was flagged his his um Financial activity was flagged on numerous occasions and nothing was done and um as I note in my article there's two groups that are responsible for Jamie dimon being in charge of JP Morgan uh one of them they're both connected to organized crime one of them is John W Kessler who's Leslie Wexner is right hand man and work directly with Epstein on numerous occasions this is complete documented fact and the other person is a man named James shine Crown who comes from the billionaire Crown family that has run since the 60s the weapons manufacturer General Dynamics and his father Lester Crown was a close associate of Leslie Wexner since the early 90s at least and James shine Crown was the the top guy at JP Morgan's risk policy committee uh through his position on the board of directors so all of this uh the fact that the the top policy making body for risk management it was this guy at the top you know and then they're letting Epstein get away with all the stuff when it's flagged by middle management the top management says oh no nothing to see here and then you have Executives joking oh Epstein's a sugar daddy and you have just Staley a top executive at JP Morgan exchanging emails with Epstein talking about Disney Princesses saying oh it was nice to meet Snow White what character do you want to meet next oh I mean this is insane and so when you consider the fact that the same people that created essentially Jeffrey Epstein put Jamie dimon in in charge of JPMorgan Chase uh it's very hard to believe that diamond did not know what was going on because ultimately you know who does he have to answer to at the end of the day the same people that put him in his cushy job at the top of the Wall Street uh pyramid of power right and so if they ever come knocking and say well you want we want you to ignore what this guy does why wouldn't he do it you know I think it's very naive to think uh that there isn't some sort of uh problem there for Jamie Diamond and we'll see if he gets questioned about any of these people like Kessler in in the crowns um so why well I'm missing what what is the Virgin Islands interest in this so um they're you know I'm not exactly sure why it's them Prosecuting it to be honest because a lot of these Financial crimes didn't necessarily happen exclusively in the Virgin Islands because remember Epstein had residences all over the United States right and New Mexico New York Palm Beach he also had his Island right and so the island was part of the U.S Virgin Islands and so uh they're arguing that his uh JP Morgan was enabled his enabling his sex trafficking activities that included the Virgin Islands but of course it's important to point out it wasn't exclusive to the Virgin Islands to this day the FBI has never even bothered to raid or search Epstein's New Mexico residence right so and and they waited over a month to uh you know raid some of his other residences after the New York one was rated so I mean obviously it's a a controlled investigation as far as U.S law enforcement is concerned so you'd never see this case be taken up by a district like sdny for example I don't think they'd go after the billionaires that enabled Epstein and Jamie dimon is a billionaire right so most of the people that have taken the fall for the the Epstein case so far have been Epstein who's now dead died of suicide in his jail cell then John Luke Burnell who also died by suicide in his jail cell in Paris France and then Colleen Maxwell who's in Country Club prison uh-huh it's uh it's more corrupt like people can't even wrap their heads around and it is an amazing how people just let Jeffrey Epstein get killed right in Pro broad daylight and everybody knows exactly what happened and nobody cares no like there's no push in the media there's no there's no politician it's a meme there's no political party that wants to know what happened there's nothing I just Googled it just to say like why is it and it's here's why conspiracy theories about Jeffrey Epstein keep flourishing from NPR this other one like it probably was suicide that's what pops up when you you're kidding yeah NPR saying is probably with suicide oh no Los Angeles Times forget the conspiracy theories here's why it's likely Jeffrey Epstein killed himself even Alan dershowitz says he didn't kill himself I mean that's how insane so this uh and so now Jamie Diamond is gonna have to answer questions under oath is this does he have to fly to the Virgin Islands for this no because it's uh the hearing is going on and I think a New York oh okay okay but it's being for the the prosecuting team is from the U.S Virgin Islands right okay wow well this is quite an article uh I read a lot of it today here it is I'll put it up again the rise of Jamie dimon uh as JP Morgan's ties to Jeffrey Epson are being scrutinized in court Whitney Webb reveals how the same powerful players who brought Epstein to prominence are responsible for JP Morgan CEO James there it is uh it's really a great read and it's it it all every time I read something by you it's mind-blowing and um is that what that is that picture what are they vaping yeah what do they have in their mouths I don't know what they're doing but the reason I used it is because it has on the far right is the longtime head of bank one John G McCoy who was a mentor to Leslie Wexner who's in the middle and wexner's right-hand man that helped hand select Jamie Diamond to Lead Bank one before it gets merged into JPMorgan Chase who I mentioned earlier John W Kessler and John W Kessler and Wexner launched something called the New Albany project a real estate development uh Endeavor in Ohio and it was Epstein that came in to essentially clean that up and he came in to clean that up after wexner's uh tax attorney for The Limited was shot in the face in broad daylight and was still classified as an unsolved homicide homicide and that lawyer murdered the day before he was going to testify to the IRS about suspicious Financial activity um so you know Epstein came in after that and cleaned up New Albany which before that point was a quote unquote mess and there was actually a police investigation into a lot of into this lawyer's murder and it was heavily censored and only revealed by a Freedom of Information Act request decades after the fact and that police document which was made in 1991 revealed all of these interconnected companies of Kessler and waxner and their ties to organized crime and posited that that was you know part of the reason for this particular lawyer's murder and by the time that was written in 1991 several of those companies were actually uh headed or the vice president of several of those companies named in that report uh was Jeffrey Epstein and Kessler and Epstein worked together directly on New Albany and John G McCoy of bank one had a house there uh and uh Epstein did as well and was involved I think he was a general partner in the holding company um and there's a lot of connections between the two but essentially Kessler had been on the board of bank one for some time and he's openly acknowledged his role in selecting Jamie Diamond John G McCoy's son in 1999 John B McCoy was forced out by James crown and uh then crown and his cronies I guess on on the board of of bank one and Kessler decided on Jamie Diamond those are the people responsible for selecting him as CEO of Bank one as I mentioned earlier Jamie dimon had sort of just been forced out of Citigroup right and then he's put in charge of bank one which uh in a couple years a couple years after this point merges into JPMorgan Chase and he's put in charge of the combined entity but what I would like to say is that in the 1980 under the watch of John G McCoy who's in that picture there Bank One became one of the four favorite banks for the money laundering arms profits as part of the Iran Contra yeah and one of the other banks that was uh in the four favorite uh and one of those four uh merged with bank one just a few years after Iran Contra ended called Valley National Bank which was tied to the corruption of Charles Keating and the Keating five that included Senator John McCain right yeah that was a McCain scandal with Keating yes oh I didn't know that wow it's it's a crazy story and then as far as Iran Contra connections go a few years after that Leslie Wexner who has a lot of it was on the board of director of bank one at the time uh he and Epstein secure the relocation of the main CI CIA linked Iran Contra airline to Columbus Ohio to run cargo for The Limited wow Southern Air transport um so a bunch of several Ohio officials thought something really weird was going on there because the other two people besides Wexner and Epstein that helped secure that deal were people that were convicted as part of the Iran Contra affair Alan fears and Richard Secord were the people responsible for that so there's a bunch of weird stuff going on with this particular group and diamond is the front man for for these guys and the Brown family is just as crazy as far as uh General Dynamics and what they got away with there goes and there it ties to organized crime or arguably even more extensive than they are for people like Wexner and bank one so it's crazy stuff so why isn't it more dangerous for you to do this to talk to to you know devote your life to this and become an expert on it you know those people would are you afraid uh no I mean personally I think things have gotten this far because so many people have just not said something when they should have you know and it's really you know I think incumbent on all of us to take personal responsibility to really realize how power works in the United States because so many people have been content for decades to sort of swallow this fairy tale that were force-fed through the media and through the education system about how power works in the US you know we're told you know if you believe that narrative then you believe that Joe Biden signs off on all the decisions made by the U.S government today and honestly that's uh harder to believe now than it really ever has been uh and you know it's a in order to solve the problems of today we have to understand what the problem actually is and you can't do that by believing these false narratives that we're that we've been told so you know someone has to figure out what's actually going on and I'm not you know alone in doing that you know there's lots of other people that work towards that end but it's it's something that has to be done because we can't fix uh the problem if we don't know what the problem is and the problem is is that the power structures I mean we're the government is essentially run by organized crime uh you know the mob and the CIA came together in the World War II era and it's really you know they basically are the mob together and you know intelligence agencies essentially operate not that differently than organized crime and we're at a point where these guys have taken complete control of the Banking and Financial Services industry and they are they have been looting the American people for decades through manufacture a lot of you know past manufactured economic crises and the taxpayer has consistently been left holding the bag and you know now we're reaching the end of the line and uh essentially to avoid pitchforks at their door we're being ushered into a paradigm of Central Bank digital currencies yes um and complete surveillance so that people when they figure out how screwed they've been uh won't be able to do anything about it that's essentially where we are you know so how long do we want to leave the mob in power essentially you know so and these I was I would be interested to see the connections between the world economic forum and these people and Jamie Diamond's a member of the weft oh he's a member of world economic Forum of course he is okay so there you go and so this is Maxwell's sister and so there you go so now there's and they're setting up this digital currency it's really happening uh it's gonna it's coming to America they already have a pay a website set up for the digital currency it's like fed now or something like that or uh doc have you heard about that Whitney yeah fed now launches in July it's uh they claim it will make payments faster and it has nothing to do with Central Bank digital currencies uh even though you know the vast majority of every country in the world is developing some sort of type of Central Bank digital currency and the central Bankers around the world have essentially admitted whether it's Augustine Carson's head of the bis or someone like Christine Lagarde essentially saying that it's about control it's not about money it's about ending Financial anonymity being able to surveil every transaction where every uh dollar goes and is spent and being able to control what people can and can't buy and essentially if you control the money to that extent you can control what people can or can't do where they can and can't go I mean you know the possibilities for them are really endless but do we really want to give up all of that freedom to people that um engage in extensive criminal activity and have for a long time and can you know deceive the public I mean it's it's crazy what were those two people's names you said who admitted that uh Central Bank the digital currency was about control yeah Augustine Carson's and who is the head of the bank of international settlements uh he's uh okay I got a Mexican Banker uh you can look him up he's an interesting character in and of himself and then Christine Lagarde who um I can't remember what she was convicted for but some sort of corruption thing and I believe she's currently head of the European Central Bank or something like really okay we're doing a story coming up later about how uh they've admitted the the head of some Central Bank said that if you spend more than a thousand dollars in cash you're going to be uh you know that's a red flag and then you'll be arrested or fined they don't want people spending cash they want people to use them because they want it all surveilled but it's not just Financial transactions they want all your internet activity to be to be surveilled so there's also this pair ish to link everything you do online to a government-issued ID so Elon Musk right at Twitter it starts tried to start rolling this out via Twitter blue use a government-issued ID and tie it to your Twitter account but there's pushes from all over the place to link your social media account or really your internet activity in general to a government-issued ID so they know who's saying what no more Anonymous trolls or Anonymous posting they want to know what everyone's saying and they also want to know what you're reading and watching as part of you know this whole preventing domestic Terror uh strategy but it's really not about that it's about you know censorship at the end of the day and controlling what information people access yeah but you know everybody who voted for Joe Biden is super on board for censorship they think that's a good Christian thing to do that that actually brings democracy and and freedom did you you know that right yeah yeah I find that absolutely mind-boggling that people think that that will improve anything um ultimately if you're censoring stuff you're trying to take it out of the public discussion uh because you know whatever information you're supplying can't handle debate essentially I mean at least that's how I look at it so people cheering on censorship uh you know I mean I just I honestly don't understand it and I don't really understand how they you know people that claim to be Progressive that are promoting you know censorship and what you know is essentially like you know burning the Library of Alexandria all over again yeah taking uh you know in stifling debate taking important information out of circulation um you know it's crazy uh that anyone would sign off on that uh then as you sound like a white supremacist that's what you sound like to me I'd have you investigate that's right why don't you why don't you care about hate and because that's what that is if you're for free speech you're for hate crimes against a marginalized so dog whistle is what it is no that's exactly what she's doing she's whistling that dog whistle yeah well here's the thing too like some people like I I wrote this article right first time to organize crime you know I've had people talk talk about my Epstein research and call it anti-semitic yeah but ultimately at the end of the day what it's anti-semitic to conflate Jewish people with people like Leslie Wexner do you really think someone like Leslie Wexner is is the same as everyone who's I mean that's actual anti-Semitism isn't it or to say that you know uh reporting on on the Mossad or you know organized crime or people like you know mayor Lansky or the Jewish Mob of the 30s conflating that with all Jewish people that's actual anti-Semitism so what a lot of these people do is they're trying to hide behind the terms to prevent criticism of power ultimately and if you're co-signing uh censorship under those metrics uh I mean you're ultimately protecting the powers that be at the end of the day a hundred percent of course go ahead no Italian mafia the head of a whole they had a whole campaign about there's no such thing as the mafia it's racist against Italian yeah bring it up yes which is hilarious now but in the 70s that was a real thing they were trying to do that that's right because they were they took they took heat because of the Godfather movie yeah but most Italians I knew they they they thought the Godfather was like Elvis they embraced it probably I grew up in Jersey Shore I probably have met Two Italians my whole life that did not want to in some way be associated with the mafia yeah they all won a hint like I got an uncle I gotta come on I'm connected you better watch it Whitney Webb I really appreciate you coming on everybody should check out this article over at unlimited hangout the rise of Jamie Diamond and all your stuff is fantastic she's also the offer uh author of One Nation Under blackmail about Jeffrey Epstein's case thanks for coming on I appreciate it thank you very much thanks my pleasure okay see you next time we're telling jokes in Nashville Honolulu Los Angeles Northampton Massachusetts Syracuse co-host New York Hartford Connecticut Baltimore Chicago Rosemont San Diego and more go to jimmydoor.com to see get a link for all those tickets plus you can watch my new special kovid lines are funny foreign
The Trump-Epstein-Israel Connection REVEALED (w/ Whitney Webb) by Briahna Joy Gray and Whitney Webb Bad Faith Premiered Jul 28, 2025
Independent investigative journalist and author of One Nation Under Blackmail: The Sordid Union between Intelligence & Crime That Gave Rise to Jeffrey Epstein, returns to Bad Faith Podcast to weigh in on Donald Trump's unwillingness to release the Epstein files, and the connection between Trump, Epstein, Israeli intelligence, and America's unwillingness to break from Israel as it escalates its genocide in Palestine. Webb clarifies that Epstein provided secret info to the FBI in 2008 as part of his plea deal, making him an informant, (as was Trump-booster Peter Thiel), and connects the dots between key players. She also unpacks her new bombshell reporting on Italy's Donald Trump, Flavio Briatore, his connection to Epstein benefactor & Victoria's Secret owner Les Wexner, & offers evidence that Trump may be a material witness to Epstein's sex crimes.
Transcript
The fact that Leslie Wexner has never been investigated for his role in the Epstein scandal is absolutely bonkers. Do what you can to extricate yourself and your family from this power structure that is predatory. It's evil. It kills kids. It rapes kids. The music industry had become tied up with the private prison industry. An asset is definitely fair to say at the very least. If they want to blackmail you or know something about you, they just access what Palunteers sucked up about you. Like what are we do like? Well, Epstein was interested in Chsky for AI purposes. If journalists did at all their jobs, every four sentences that you say should be four weeks of news coverage doing in-depth education of the American public. Are you ever worried about drawing attention for the kind of research and reporting that you do? Um, in the 2024 campaign, uh, there was a lot of signaling, not just from Trump, but from, you know, JD Vance and some of these other figures, some of Trump's, uh, children, you know, on social media and I, I believe also interviews, uh, basically uh, promising the release of Epstein documents if Trump were to be elected. And this is also true of things that were stated by the current FBI director and FBI deputy director. And uh you know a few months before uh things really exploded with Trump getting uh kind of feisty um on his social media posts uh we had you know Cash Patel and Dan uh Bonino and uh sort of basically come out and say Epstein uh definitely killed himself and all this stuff. And then Pam Bondi uh you know kind of followed suit and then they released this video uh that has a minute missing which obviously I you know is going to make people that think Epstein uh didn't kill himself or at least didn't kill himself without help from the outside. um you know, it's not going to put any conspiracies address if there's like a minute plus uh missing and then the metadata shows that the video was edited and uh so there's been all this backpedaling, but it's it's very bizarre um that they would mishandle this so extensively. I mean, maybe they thought that uh the base didn't really care that much or that they could distract them uh with something else eventually if they never had the intention to release these things, which is what seems to be uh the case. But now, you know, I think now they're trying to do use the distraction uh or develop new distractions. you know, as soon as this kind of boiled over and really kind of splintered and angered a large segment of Trump's base, um there were releases of, you know, documents on the MLK assassination and Tulsi Gabbard has now been releasing stuff on Russia gate and uh Trump is putting all the stuff like AI videos of Obama getting arrested. So now it's kind of trying to shift gears and get the base riled up about something else and be like, "Please forget about uh the Jeffrey Epstein case." Um, but it's it's kind of uh it it's really bizarre. Particularly the most bizarre of it all um would be Trump's own response. uh he obviously fails to understand how a large segment of his base feels about this case uh by trying to you know wash it away and and call it a a Democrat invented hoax um and all of this stuff. Mr. President, I know you want to move past all this intrigue over the Epstein files, but I do want to ask you to clarify something you said this morning. You said this was all a hoax. Has your attorney general told you this was a hoax? What evidence have you seen? It's not the attorney general. No, I know it's a hoax. It's started by Democrats. It's been run by the Democrats for four years. You had Christopher Ray and these characters and Comey before him and uh it's a bad group. It started actually look at the Steel Dossier that turned out to be a total hoax. The 51 agents, the intelligence so-called intelligence agents, it was a hoax. Uh it's all been a big hoax. It's perpetrated by the Democrats and some stupid Republicans and foolish Republicans fall into the net. And so they try and do the Democrats work. Uh the Democrats are good for nothing other than these oaks is they're bad for policy. Uh they're bad for picking candidates that can get elected. Like in uh New York, we have a communist running. He may get elected too actually, but he's going to he'll destroy the city. Uh no, no, it's I call it the Epstein hoax. Takes a lot of time and effort. Instead of talking about the great achievements, we've had a great gentleman uh yesterday, as you know, went on CNBC and he made the statement that Trump may go down as the greatest president of all in the United States. And instead of talking about the things we've achieved, we've had tremendous achievement. They're wasting their time with uh a guy who obviously had some very serious problems, who died 3, four years ago. Uh, I'd rather talk about the success we have with the economy, the best we've ever had, and all of the things we've done, including in the Middle East. I mean, you see it. Instead, they want to talk about the Epstein hooks. And the sad part is it's people that are really doing the Democrats work. They're stupid people. Yeah. Go ahead. Uh, and it's it's complicated. Uh, I think a lot of people have forgotten that, uh, Jeffrey Epstein's death in prison happened during the first Trump administration. So, anything uh that would be released that would suggest that something um unusual happened the night that he died uh would come back to roost for the previous Trump Department of Justice and uh presumably Attorney G former Attorney General William Bar. Um and somehow a lot of people have have forgotten that. Um that's such an important point. That's such an important point. I wanna I want to get into some of what you just sort of alluded to there. one, the fact of Donald Trump including in his administration so many figures that had vocally been proponents of the idea that there is some kind of cover up going with respect to Jeffrey Epstein's death because of some kind of complicity with the powers that be that there's a blackmail scandal that there's some kind of government control going on there and that is why so many important people feel like there needs to be a cover up and these include include Dan Bonino who was a sort of a you know podcast or a commentator prior to being brought into the Trump administration and that that that lent a sense of credibility it seems to me to Donald Trump as someone who wasn't afraid and who was willing to investigate Epstein but it does seem like perhaps Trump didn't think far enough ahead to think that his his base would actually want these this particular issue to be pursued and that the fact of including some of these voices within his administration ation wouldn't be enough to just satisfy a public that really thought there was a there there with respect to Epstein and and perhaps even a a Trump connection. Yeah. So, you know, my opinion generally is that um some figures in the Trump administration were kind of chosen as a PR move and that they're not actually in charge of what they're nominally in charge of. So, like Pete Hegath, head of the Pentagon, he's kind of a Fox and Friends, you know, he's a TV show host. Um, and the the deputy director of the Pentagon, Steve Fineberg of Cberous Capital, is most likely the person actually running the Pentagon, not Hexath, in my opinion. And I think that's true also for um RFK uh Junior in charge of HHS. I don't really think he's running. He's just kind of this figure that connected with Trump's base, particularly during the COVID era, and made them think reforms would come. and those reforms haven't really come, but he's kind of there to give the impression that things have changed. But the person behind him, the deputy secretary, is Jim O'Neal, who's a career affiliate of uh Peter Teal, uh who's also the power behind JD Vance and you know, a co the man that made Palunteer what it is. Um and so, you know, I think it's just a way of sort of masking the people that are actually running stuff. And I think that's probably true too of Cash Patel and Don uh Dan Bonino who were basically out there uh you know they were making the rounds on podcasts and we're making these connections and building trust and relationships with the public in Trump space but it seems like they're not actually uh running anything in my opinion. They're kind of figureheads in a way and they're willing figureheads. Uh, I would say yeah, there was that like hostage video. Uh, it felt like a hostage video with Cash Patel and Dan Manino kind of sitting there saying, "Uh, no. We looked and there's there's no scandal. There's no Epstein cover up." Yeah. And that's what Trump's base, a lot of them thought, too. Uh, and it's kind of impressive in a sense that that would not have been an anticipated reaction uh to these guys being rolled out to do that. So, um, maybe I again, I just I don't really know what to think about it. It's it's very odd. Um, and I think uh people I mean either it was a a a drastic underestimation of how much this case matters uh to the American public and or maybe it was something else that you know has yet to make itself apparent. Uh, I I honestly don't know, but it's definitely been uh very bizarre and a lot of the comms have been uh seem to have been, you know, just it's just been bungled, frankly. Yeah. So you so you mentioned the um uh the video that's the Epstein jail cell surveillance video that was sort of released as a see nothing's there's nothing to see here but they hadn't cleared the metadata and you it was apparent that there was missing content from this video. Yeah. And apparently also you know it focuses on a few cell doors but those weren't the doors to Epstein stell. In the bottom you can see the path to a stairwell that leads to where Epstein's cell was. Um, so it's not even really that, you know, the entry to where Epstein was is not actually the focus of the video, but I guess having it on those doors makes people think that that kind of misleadingly. Those were the doors to where Epstein was. Um, and that's not the case. And were there other, you know, stairwells or entrances to that block of cells where Epstein was that weren't on film? I mean, again, it I don't it's not conclusive at all. Even if Okay. So, yeah. Go ahead. I'm sorry. Well, I was just saying it's not conclusive at all necessarily. Uh even if the there wasn't time missing in the in the video. I see. Okay. That's an that's an important point. But what the the takeaway from all of this is, including the uh the Obama deep fake videos, the efforts to pin the tail on anybody but Donald Trump and all these other distraction techniques that have happened over the last week or so that the the Trump campaign knows this is a vulnerability and they're trying to get out of it after having it seems miscalculated the one interest of their audience in this and two how insulated they would be from having to actually do anything to investigate the, you know, uh, alleged Epstein co cover up as long as they just brought some of these vocal kind of Epstein truthers into the fold. Now, you've written this piece on Unlimited Hangout that proposes a theory. Now, some folks think, well, the cover, you know, Trump's effort to distract from all of this must be because he's implicated. You say it might be the case, but it also might be the case that he's trying to protect one or multiple very close friends of his that are also potentially implicated. Tell me what you've written about here. Uh so yeah I started a new series which is called first friends which is sort of like a play on you know like first lady and yeah the idea is what you said exploring the possibility of figures close to Donald Trump still close to Donald Trump that have um unusual or rather that have never been reported about connections to Epstein. uh which suggests that you know if I could find it I'm sure the New York Times and these people could have found it too and why haven't they reported on it especially if there's blood in the water against their least favorite president right um so the first person in this series is about a man named Flavio Briator who's probably bre best known for his uh career as a as a top guy in Formula 1 racing in Europe um he's Italian he's also pretty well known for having dated and been engaged at one time to Naomi Campbell and later fathering uh Heidi Clume's uh first child uh Lenny Clume. Uh but beyond that, he's a longtime friend of Donald Trump. Um as I put in the article, uh there's a video of of them uh together doing the Italian edition of The Apprentice. Uh because as Trump says in the video, uh when it was uh time to bring The Apprentice to Italy, there were lots of people that wanted to star in it, but he only wanted one person and that was his longtime friend uh Flavio. And they talk about their long-term friendship in that in that clip for those that are interested. Uh but Flavio Briator uh has a few unusual links to the Epstein case, which I explore here. Um, and one of them has to do with the black book itself. Um, so, uh, the black book is this book of contacts that are Epstein's, but Ebste didn't necessarily write it. His staff wrote it, and so it wasn't just one staff member. It was a few members of his staff. Um, in his Palm Beach residence that compiled this list of contacts. Um, but it was deemed legitimate enough to be used in as evidence in Galain Maxwell's trial uh, a couple years ago. Um, so it's considered to give an AC, you know, it was then considered to give an relatively accurate portrayal of the time of of sort of, you know, uh, frequently contacted figures in Epstein's um, world during, you know, the particular period of time that the Palm Beach case in particular, uh, spanned. And so, um, that book became public, well, it was originally published and made actually public, uh, by the investigative journalist Nick Bryant, who's also known for investigating the Franklin scandal, which is sort of a Reagan Bush era, uh, pedophile scandal in involving government officials. And he published that at Gawker, I believe, in 2015, but he came into possession of it sometime, I think around 2012 or so, he said. Uh but prior to that uh the FBI obtained it from uh Jeffrey Epstein's former butler, Alfredo Rodriguez, who uh died the same year it was published in 2015. Uh but earlier he had tried to basically shop uh sell the black book initially to one of the uh victims lawyers uh Brad Edwards who works with uh Stanley Pottinger at I forget the name of their law firm, but they're two of the main um Epstein lawyers. And so, uh, instead of buying the book, I mean, obviously it's it's fair that he wouldn't pay an enormous, uh, the the large sum that Rodriguez was asking for it, um, but Edwards instead tipped off the FBI, uh, and basically sed the FBI on this guy. and the FBI set up a sting operation to buy the book from him and Rodriguez went to prison which later Epstein when he was asked about it uh said uh about the black book he was like it never should have been published it was terrible that it was published but now my butler or you know my former butler is is in prison for you know the crime of publishing it of course I'm paraphrasing that's not a direct quote but that was essentially what he was saying so he agreed with you know Rodriguez being put away and it's important to point out that Epstein was an FBI informant during this period. So, you know, there may have been some duplicity there, but again, I don't know. But what's important here is that Rodriguez when he tried to shop this book around, he circled names that he said were uh co-conspirators and material witnesses to Epstein sex trafficking crimes. So, Flavio Briator is one of the circled names. Uh Alan Dersowitz is a circled name. Leslie Wexner, John Luke Brunell, who is the French accomplice of Epstein that died in prison while awaiting trial in 2022. Um, and then Donald Trump is also a circled name, which oddly enough hasn't really gotten a lot of um, coverage over the years. You know, Bryant, Nick Bryant's of course talked about that, but a lot of people act like Trump was never accused. And then Brad Edwards later went out and said uh to to uh to Derek Bros when he was interviewed by him uh that Trump had actually been very helpful. But of course, Trump and Epstein at that point had had a personal uh falling out. And also, uh Brad Edwards, uh law partner, Stanley Pottinger, uh has kind of a suspect history, sort of acting like the Democrat equivalent of William Bar, which is basically a mop-up man for government scandals um over the course of his lengthy uh career as a you know, a lawyer working on behalf of the government and the Department of Justice. Um, so there's a lot of question marks there. Okay. So when I just want to make sure I'm following the implications. So in this um book uh that uh Epstein's former butler was trying to shop and got caught up in the sting operation. There were a number of circle names that were supposed to indicate material witnesses and co-conspirators and enablers, I guess, to the sex trafficking. Yes. Uh-huh. But Rodriguez didn't specify why he circled those names. And he died the year that the book was published by Gawker and also in prison. And I'm not really sure there's any information on the circumstances of his death. And that's also of course the year that Donald Trump declares his candidacy for president. Okay. So the implication I'm just gonna the implication is that this butler knew and identified Donald Trump as being not just sort of not to like minimize it but you know a visitor to the island or a friend of uh of Epstein but someone who was a material witness and more deeply implicated in this. That man, the butler, dies in prison the year that Donald Trump announces his candidacy. Yeah. For president in 2015. Okay. And moreover, you alluded to uh Epstein himself being an FBI agent or informant, not informant, sorry, informant. Can you tell us more about how we know that to be true and also what the implications are then for this sort of scenario that you've set up where you know like I'm just going to I'm just going to say where the the the implication is that Donald Trump benefited enormously from this being buried because of the death of the man who circled him and fingered him as being sub substantively implicated in Jeffrey Epste's sex traffick I mean, no one can interview Alfred Alfredo Rodriguez now about why he chose to circle Trump's name or Bria Tori's name or any of these other figures. Courtney Love was also a circled name. Interesting. What do we think that's about? Um, she was there. Hard to know. Uh some authors have speculated that, you know, through her father who was a road manager for the the Grateful Dead that she was sort of brought into this weird circle of intelligence link stuff since uh authors more recently have sort of pointed to that band and some of these other groups in the '60s of having, you know, CIA and and other uh suspect connections and sort of that the the a lot of the ' 60s culture, counter culture had was engineered uh for uh various purposes, but I'm not an expert on that, so I don't really want to u speculate too much, but that's sort of been the um I I believe Covert Action magazine actually, and I forget who the author was, so sorry about that, but they have a whole article detailing uh alleged ties between Courtney Love and some nefarious actors, so I'll refer people uh to that. I read it once, but I wasn't, you know, I didn't end up, I guess. Winnie, the way that you rattle off all of these facts and names, I don't think there's a single person listening that would judge you for not remembering the name of one magazine that talked about one article at some point about Courtney Love. I also have a very young baby at home, so I'm sleepd deprived, so that may influence things a little bit. Even more of a credit to you, frankly. So, so I feel like I have to ask, is there any reason to sort of doubt the credibility or the motives of this Epstein Butler, especially since he was caught trying to sort of like personally profit from the sale the sale of this book? Yeah, I mean it's it's it's possible, but at the time Trump was not a political candidate, and a lot of the other names that are circled are people that are well known to have been accompllices to the crime, like Maxwell, like Jean Lupernell, Leslie Waxner, Jeffrey Epstein's main benefactor. Um, and we also do know, for example, that the most famous Epstein victim of all who died earlier this year, Virginia Roberts, um, she was recruited by Galain Maxwell while working at U Trump's Mara Lago resort. So there's a possibility that there may have been something there. Uh but again, we don't really know because we can't ask the guy, but it it is convenient that he cannot be asked. Uh but there you go. And there was no investigation into the circumstances of his death in prison, even given these suspicions around Epstein dying in similar circumstances. Uh I don't believe so. I uh was looking into it and was able to find out some other things but was unable to find information on um how and how he died in prison while serving a sentence related to this. What's also fascinating to me though is that 2015 is the year that Gawker starts to be sued into oblivion by Peter Teal. And now we know that in 2014 and 2015 Teal and Epstein were meeting regularly and Peter Teal was also an FBI informant during that time. How do we know these men were FBI informants? Um, I uh well uh I'm pretty sure in the case of Epstein, and it's sourced in my book, but I'm pretty sure it's uh the FBI admitted it or another aspect of the government admitted it because it came up in a court case, one of the I forget which victim court case. I mean this this sort of leads me to another piece of this which frankly is the part I have to admit that is the most sort of intriguing along with the kind of magabase turning on Trump for not being transparent about Epstein. They are also increasingly frustrated with his betrayal as the quoteunquote anti-war candidate and the America first candidate. And these things are related through Epstein to the extent that it has been often argued and there has been speculation that the reason that the United States is so committed to Israel no matter what it does, no matter how poorly it reflects on America's political reputation, no matter how much it costs America, no matter how many much it costs individual political candidates in an electoral space, for example, Joe Biden and Kla Harris and now Donald Trump who's taking a hit over it is because there's some compromise. There's some relationship there. And Donald Trump being so close to Epstein of course raises the suspicion that he in particular has his hands tied and that he cannot change course politically with respect to America's unqualified support of Israel because if he does something disastrous, something scandalous will be revealed about him. So I I would love you to speak to the claims that there is some sort of blackmail specifically that ties that that basically constrains Trump, this administration, other administrations adherence to Israel's Israel as a as a country and Israel's choices in particular in Gaza right now, the genocide. So, it's hard to know if it's blackmail or if it's because basically the the same people behind Donald Trump or the same people behind Epstein. So, even if they had a personal falling out, that doesn't necessar wouldn't necessarily change the fact that um their benefactors uh tend to have been more or less the same the same people. So it's also I mean it is possible that there is com you know blackmail somewhere that they're hanging over Trump's head on this particular case and on with the case of Israel or it's the case that a lot of the uh powers that pull the strings of the currently couped government in Israel and you know Donald Trump's administration or you know have a lot of overlap. Um, so, um, a lot of people have used my book and tried to say that I authoritaratively say that Epstein, uh, was MSAD, and I definitely do argue for an Israeli state connection there. Um, I also argue for a US intelligence connection there. Uh but essentially what the thesis of my book is is that um at the during World War II uh organized crime in the US, specifically the national crime syndicate, which was the Jewish American mob and the Italian mafia, which then uh the main leader of of this of the Italian mafia of this faction and after World War II gets deported to Italy and he sort of sets up shop there. uh they merge with you intelligence interests mainly the precursor to the CIA and American intelligence um and then that's sort of the how the nexus behind Jeffrey Epste and this broader network um begins and of course a lot of those Jewish American organized crime interests are intimately involved with the establishment of the state of Israel in 1948 specifically the arming of the Hagana and other armed paramilitary groups that enacted the Nagba and led to the creation of the state of Israel in 1948. And some and not just organized crime figures but also some of these organized crime linked oligarch families like the Bronman family uh also involved in that for example and basically I explore how these networks developed in in these various countries and argue that this is really a transnational uh power structure. So, uh, if I explain how that relates to Epstein in the book, um, but unfortunately I kind of, uh, had to rush my book out at the time I was writing it, uh, because of a deadline. And so I didn't get to explore really Trump's ties fully to that. I did to an extent by exploring, uh, the ties of his mentor Roy Con, to that. Uh, but Trump specifically, um, I found information later, um, about his, you know, how extensive those ties were. Um, so I guess as an overview, you know, Donald Trump, uh, you know, was mentored by Roy Conn, who Roy Conn was a mob lawyer. He, uh, sort of had one foot in the legitimate world, you know, uh, having ties to the Reagan administration and the Nixon administration, for example, but he he was also a lawyer, uh, for organized crime families in in New York. And if you look at his background um you know his dad ran this uh secret society that later uh Edgar Bronman and Leslie Wexner's uh mentors and a lot of these uh figures were were part of called Benyth and then his uh one of Roy Con's mentors was this Italian businessman uh who was tied very closely tied to the mob named Generoso Pope and Pope's son was Roy Conn's best friend growing up and from Pope uh who was very tied up with the Sicilian mafia and also very close and and also the Italian mafia in New York. Um he was also a big fan of of Mussolini era fascism and controlled Italian language newspapers in New York and used that to try and manipulate um Italian-American votes. Um and he basically taught Roy Con this system called uh the favor bank. Roy Conn called it which is basically uh you know we see today now in Trump's art of the deal which is sort of how to establish backroom deals. You do a favor for me I do a favor for you and it's really you know explains a lot of how a political power has worked in the US for some time. It's of course not exclusive to these people um but you can see how these things have developed um over time. And so, you know, in the case of uh Trump, in around the year that Roy Con uh dies, um he becomes the controlling shareholder of a company called Resorts International. So, Resorts International has longterm affiliations to the same syndicate of organized crime, specifically the Jewish American head of it, uh Mayor Lansky. And, um Resorts International was also created. Initially it was a formerly Mary Carter Paint Company uh which was a is an acknowledged CIA front company. So basically Donald Trump became controlling shareholder of this in ' 87. That's uh also the year I believe that he bought Adnan Kosigible's yacht. Um and that yacht Koshogi had used for sex blackmail purposes as I note in my book. Um and then um you know uh he try Trump tries to expand with Resorts International his holdings at Atlantic City, New Jersey with at the time they were trying to make the New Vegas um essentially. And of course Vegas itself has a lot of historical um organized crime connections and so did a lot of the you know companies trying to make casinos in in Atlantic City. Um but he eventually, you know, gets uh has financial issues with that and um in the early 90s uh has to be bailed out. He's going bankrupt and he's bailed out by Rosschild Banking Interest. Uh the one the main banker involved there of course is uh Wilbur Ross who uh was Trump's Secretary of Commerce during his first term and that appointment was seen as Trump sort of returning the favor in a way of him being bailed out by you know the Rothschild Inc. essentially in the early 90s. And if that bankrupt, you know, if he hadn't been bailed out, then who knows if Trump would even still be around today as a businessman and a a famous public figure. Hey YouTube, thanks for watching. Just a reminder that this is a podcast. You can catch an extra premium episode every Monday for $5 a month at patreon.com/badfaithpodcast. That's patreon.com/badfaithpodcast for $5 a month, an extra episode every week. Additionally, please do consider liking this video, subscribing to this channel. It helps us out. It helps independent media beat the algorithm. We appreciate you. And as always, keep the faith. [Music]
Always One War Away from Peace with guest Whitney Webb by Richard Grove and Whitney Webb Streamed live on Aug 3, 2025 Tonight, 9:30 PM EDT: Grand Theft World Podcast 246!
Start at 4:35:58 Today's special guest is the creator of many, many empowering and insightful articles published at at published at unlimitedhang.com, including the January 23rd, 2020 article on DARPA that I found so preent back then. More recently, she's worldrenowned for her epic two volume series, One Nation Under Black Mail, which is becoming more transparent to the world every day. Her latest article is First Friends: How Italy's Donald Trump introduced Naomi Campbell to Jeffrey Epstein. I'm very pleased and excited to welcome back to Grand Theft World podcast, Whitney Webb. Whitney, how you doing? Hey, I'm doing great. Thanks for having me. Back. Yeah, thanks for making time in your schedule. I have had to watch you with Savvy Sabs recently to get a taste of what's going on out there. She's uh she's, you know, she's very savvy. That Savvy. All right. So my first question for you, it's not going to be a curveball. It's more of a softball. Okay. When I teach people marketing and entrepreneurism. I'm just curious. When did you decide to hire Ian Carol as your director of marketing? Oh my god. Okay. So, didn't I don't even know what to say to that. Oh my god. Okay. So, I didn't hire Ian um at all. Um and I haven't really had any contact with him ever. Um but I do appreciate that he has enjoyed my book thoroughly. Um but I do um not agree with some of the conclusions he's had from it. Um so I would say uh for example that um I would disagree with the conclusion that my book says only uh Epstein was MSAD. So I argue in the book that Epstein was Israeli military intelligence, which is an important distinction because Israel can come out and say we deny 100% that Epstein was MSAD, but if you you need to get the right agency because then it's not as easy for them, right? And you know, I just you have to anticipate smears and attacks like that and when you're dealing with this kind of information. Um, but beyond that, I also argue for a US intelligence tie, which you know, saying Epstein was MSAD kind of glosses over that. But more importantly, I would argue than either of those things, um, is the fact that my back my book really argues, and this is why volume one even exists, um, that what we're dealing with here is not really even state agencies. It's the power structure above them. It's a transnational oligarchy that represents the union between the people that created the intelligence agencies, mostly bankers, right, and Wall Street lawyers, um, with organized crime and how that uh, continues to manifest and inform the oligarchy of today and our reality and our power structures. Um, and so ultimately the book is very anti- duopoly. um I go after both parties and you know unfortunately my feeling is that Ian um promoted my work which you know obviously it's nice when people promote your work uh but I kind of felt like he was sheep hurting people in a way towards uh Trump which I don't think the my book really supports uh considering that it talks a lot about Trump's mentor uh Roy Conn um and you know there's plenty in the book that isn't favorable for Trump and I learned of course, after the book was published, some more stuff about Trump that I helped to put in an upcoming second edition of One Nation Under Blackmail, like that he became the controlling shareholder of Resorts International, uh, which was formerly Mari Mary Mary Carter Paint Company, you know, very notorious mob linked CIA linked company. Um and um um that's the same year he took over or he bought Adnan Kosigible's yacht, which I note in the book had been used for blackmail purposes by Kosigible, who of course in that time also had ties to Epstein. Uh that Roy Conn, Trump's mentor, basically ran, you know, not ran but was intimately involved with, you know, sexual blackmail activities at the Plaza Hotel, which after Conn dies, Trump also buys. And there's allegations of similarish things, though slightly different. um happening at the Plaza Hotel in that period and of course you know at Trump is hanging out as noted in the book on Robert Maxwell's yacht in the late 1980s or so around um a host of other figures who were controversial like the sen senator John Tower who was an accomplice to Robert Maxwell and the promise software scandal. uh Steve Ross who created uh what is now I guess Time Warner out of an organized crime linked uh you know front company that was operating some sort of garage I believe that he took over. Um and I forget who else is in the picture. Oh, Mike Wallace, the uh Chris Wallace's father, the the well-known journalist of of that era. Um you know, all in in the same picture. Um and uh of course a few years after that, Trump is bailed out uh by the Rothschild banking interests. uh you know, Wilbur Ross was assisting that and and you know, Robert Maxwell's own entry into the US, New York City in particular, uh was prompted by his affiliation uh with the Rosschild bank that was opened in the 1980s on Wall Street that was aiming to do mergers and acquisitions. And the they picked three people. I forget the third guy, but he was a friend of Maxwells, but the two other guys were Jimmy Goldsmith, uh, a famous corporate raider of the era and who's related to the Rothschilds. And then Robert Maxwell. And of course Maxwell and Goldsmith as I note in the book have you know are in the same social circles going back to this entity called the Clarement Club which was linked to British intelligence and organized crime and also sex blackmail activities and included some of these figures uh that are uh not I don't think Maxwell's portrayed in it but I know Goldmith and some of these other people like Tiny Roland uh are uh in Adam Curtis's book uh book sorry documentary series the Mayfair set um which is recommended viewing if you'd like to know that these people are are rather uh worthy of scrutiny. And it's worth pointing out too that you know involving Epstein overlap the earliest invol interaction with Epstein and this network I could find uh and as I note in the book too in the early was in the early 1970s where Epstein was inexplicably appearing at Jimmy Goldmith's mansion um when he wasn't even hired by the Dalton school yet. He was after was that before after your first volume documents that he met with the queen of England. Uh no it wasn't the queen of England. He got involved with uh the royal violinist Jacqueline DRI and allegedly had connections with the royal family through her but we don't know which members necessarily but he somehow got very close and allegedly accompanied her on piano for performances. That's the al that's alleged. Well, he has an interest in music, but your part about Jimmy Goldmith, that's also Adam Curtis documentary. It might also be the Mayfair set where he they they talk about him uh pretty prolifically. So, if anyone's not aware of those those characters, they are quintessential because Epstein did not act alone in any of this stuff. But this is this is after his trip to England when he was a college dropout backpacking through Europe and somehow ends up musically accompanying some very well-connected uh musician who uh Depri by the way ended up marrying um some Israeli uh I forget, but he was friends he was an Israeli I think musician, might have been a dancer. I can't remember because it's been a few years. Uh but that's apparently how uh Pearlman uh the famous musician got connected with Epstein was through that relationship and then Epstein when he had his cabin at the interlockan camp uh was basically uh supposedly had built that cabin for uh it Pearlman's use and now it's Pearlman's son is like running a major he's like a top executive at a major crypto exchange I think it's Binance um and was previously at um Gemini and is doing you know strange not strange things but working for companies that I think are rather suspect personally. Um, all right. So, all right. So, uh, I got a good memory. Let's go from the top. The Ian Carol piece. I'm sure Carol Quigley wouldn't agree with everything I say about his book, right? So, I was just joking that he was your marketing director. It's just that he got out there and got in front of so many people and Epstein became the topic and then he's using your book as reference and I was like, did he even read the book? When did he read the book? Where'd he come from? And he's an interesting character. So, would you be up here like meeting him or talking with him or do you want to interview with him in the future or, you know, either way he asked you, you ask him, find out? Um, I I mean, I don't know. I'd have to think about it. I mean, I have a really big interview uh backlog. Um, that is true. That is true. Yeah, it it's true. I've been kind of out of the spotlight for a while. I mean, I appreciate that he promoted it and I don't want to cast um uh you got mentioned you got mentioned in Joe Rogan, right? uh your name was said on the show. I just, you know, uh I I really hope what people take away from my my work is pointing out trans that it's a transa transnational oligarchy at the end of the day. It's, you know, who do the state actors really work for, you know, at the end of the day, like if Epstein was Israeli affiliated, what does that mean? Who's controlling the state of Israel? Well, and your point was who's controlling the United States? Amen which is uh military intelligence for the it's the directorate for Israel for military intelligence. So uh Ari Ben Manashe and some other people look I have Epstein under that. I don't have him under Mossad. So I think I would concur with you on that because I've never seen like he could be an asset adjacently but like that's but I that's a big set that house that Wexner like I think Wexner was a front also and that's why he passes it over. where he's like, "Dude, I'm retiring. I'm going to sit back and be off the hook. You're on the hook now." And then, you know, uh like likely Epstein got his uh like I think he blackmailed Donald Bar to get his start. Got a position at the Dalton School. Bar leaves. He goes and finds Ace Greenberg's kid, finds some stuff about that guy. All of a sudden, he's a guy on the Bear Sterns board of directors. He's like untouchable. So, like, well, it's hard to know. It's hard to know why and how it happened, but definitely it's not a normal trajectory. I think it's also possible too that Epstein was known to have been really talented in math and also music uh while he was a teen and high schooler. That's how he got um a full scholarship to attend the interlocking school when he was a teenager, for example. Um and uh it's very possible. So, Donald Bar was also running in New York at the time that Epste was in high school one of these uh talented teen programs where they kind of find they identify people who are uh talented and sort of pluck them out of high school and and put them in uh you know uh special programs or whatever. And in other parts of the world, like Israel, for example, they have the Talpiot program where they pick kids out of high school that are talented in math and science to put them on a fast track to high up positions and unit 8200 and things like that. Um, so you know, it's very possible that something like that happened there considering that Donald Bar historically had ties to intelligence through his service in the OSS. And at the time he hired Epstein at the Dalton School, his son William Bar, who we can talk about again later uh for obvious reasons, uh was working for the CIA uh and was involved then in stonewalling uh the Church Committee of Congress about, you know, the information they were looking for from the CIA. He was part of that effort to prevent the release of more information than absolutely necessary from the CIA to Congress. Right. So, um, there's possible that there was something else there and that he was helped along that way and through connections. You know, Ace Greenberg, uh, it was a kind of, you know, shady guy in some ways in and of themselves. A lot of these figures that I talk about in the book connected to Epstein, for example, are part of secret societies like Beny Brrith, which is basically the Jewish equivalent of Freemasonry. Uh, so do they have, you know, these little clubs and their, you know, backroom handshakes and I'm gonna hire you for this and that, you know, I mean, that kind of stuff is known to have happened in US history on more than one occasion, right? So, um, it's possible that Epste's rise uh, was related to that because also Greenberg after Epste was at Bear Sterns kind of took him under his wing and and helped him uh, climb up through the bank very quickly. Um, and you know, he left in uh 1980, but before then he was advising the most elite clients of Beer Sterns on tax evasion type stuff. Um, and uh, the reason he was let go is allegedly because he was being questioned as part of this SEC investigation into insider trading involving the Bronman family. So if Epstein were to have uh they the SEC was tipped off that Epstein knew something about it, uh Bronman very well could have been a client of Bear Sterns at that time. But what's interesting too is that um the legal counsel for Bear Sterns right around the time all this was happening was actually Bill Casey who just like a month or two later become CIA director for Reagan. Um so didn't he die in a canoe accident? His name No, that was William Colby. Colby I always get a mix. No, Bill Casey died. Uh, I forget of what, but it was after why either right after or while the Iran Contra hearings were going on. Um, fascinating. Fascinating. Now, when you were talking about OSS creating companies, OSS and CIA also created AIG, which is a different Greenberg. That's Hank Greenberg. No relation to Ace Greenberg, so far as I can tell, but that's also all Anglo-American Israeli establishment as well. Yeah. And Hank Greenberg is a longtime top funer of the CFR, right? And Epstein was also a major funer for a time of the CFR and even after he was arrested in 0708 they didn't uh they continued to take his money for a few years after that and you know uh as Hillary Clinton herself said the CFR is the mothership right so glad they have a outlet now in DC so they don't have to go to New York to get their marching orders I think was the rest of that quote all right so um Epstein Bronman Bronman is Yiddish for liquor man bron throughout your book because it's a gangster cartel type thing. It's international and you know uh is like a corporate front for the Jewish mafia traditionally cuz your book volume one starts in like 1942 with Operation Underworld and this was going on prior to that because of prohibition and Canadian smuggling into America. Uh can you go into the the like the history of Bronman and Epstein? Why would they be connected? Yeah. So, you know, my thesis about Epstein in general is that he was working uh obviously most overtly for Leslie Wexner, but Leslie Wexner himself is imshed with this this group that becomes rather tight-knit later of uh of, you know, oligarchs really, these billionaires that all happen to have organized crime connections and uh are very interested in ethnoanthropy, I guess. Are you speaking of the mega group? Yeah, sure. And yeah, which Bronman co-ound, well, Charles Bronman, not Edgar Bronman, but they obviously work closely together um since they're brothers. Um uh co-founded that with Leslie Wexner in '91, but it wasn't reported on until the Wall Street Journal covered it, I think, in 1998 or 1997. So, it was before Robert Maxwell's death, but his code name was Mega. And then he dies in between those two points that you just talked about, doesn't he? Falls off his boat. uh he he dies in 1991, but I'm not sure because we don't know the month the mega group was created, but it was created sometime in '91. So, it's hard to know the exact uh overlap. Uh but there was a spy scandal in DC uh and the code name it was wire it was a wiretap or something I believe of the Israeli embassy and they were talking about getting information from someone and whose code name was Mega. Um but the uh and so they were trying to look for like a mole in the government um and they didn't find one. And then their source uh I think in the it was the Washington Post or some mainstream media outlet like that that was reporting on it. And the the Israeli they interviewed to sort of like explain away uh the scandal was uh Rafi Eton who had actually been Robert Maxwell's handler and also Jonathan Pard's handler um for Israeli intelligence. But at the at you know he was uh running a now defunct Israeli intelligence agency called Lim that was mainly focused on uh you know science and technology espionage. Um and I forget exactly when it was it was shut down but basically he was the one kind of trying to explain it away. Um and it's very interesting you would roll out such a controversial figure um to be the person to explain it away. And I don't I think if you look at Rafi Eton's career of espionage against the United States alone uh you can't really take his claims at face value at all. So the possibility and I think it was first raised by Israel Shamir uh writing for executive intelligence review in like 2002 uh that you know the mega group and mega were uh linked somehow and um you know positing that mega was a co-word for these billionaires uh which is possible considering that they uh have these links to organized crime um that you know specifically this syndicate that teamed up with US intelligence um and um you know uh how a lot of them have bankrolled prominent politicians. So as an example, you know, the Crown family um were members of the Mega Group uh with Wexner and the Bronmans and the Crowns are also linked to organized crime uh but they're out of Chicago. Um, and they built up, for example, what is now General Dynamics, a military contractor, but also along with Wexner banking interests, uh, created the modern-day JP Morgan and put Jaime Diamond in charge of it. Uh, of course, JP Morgan later gets involved in facilitating Epstein uh, banking criminality. But the Crowns were also one of the forces that led to Barack Obama's early political career. Right. Yeah. It's fascinating that talked about his career. Well, he got called treasonous this week. That's new for him. Well, I think that's only really coming out to distract from how they're not releasing the Epstein files. And how Oh, you noticed that, too? Oh, yes. Um, I did. and how now Galain Maxwell who doesn't want to die like her father or like Epstein or like Jean Luke Brunell is being uh questioned by the DOJ and may testify and and say certain things but Pam Bondi who allegedly has a like a consulting relationship with Susie Wilds and Susie Wilds allegedly had some sort of like running Netanyahu's campaign. I mean, these are things I heard from Tim Dylan, so I can't take them seriously because he's a comedian, so I don't know about any of that. But this is a comedy show sometimes, too. Well, I'm not familiar with those allegations necessarily, but I think if you're Golain Maxwell and a lot of people around you have been killed off um and you're in prison, uh you want she I mean, I think she'll do anything to negotiate her release or a reduced sentence and say anything to further that and also not die. So, um we'll see what she says. But if I have to pick anything, you know, uh that I think she may say, if it's not, uh something made up, which is possible, but if she tells the truth about something, she'll just be asked adnauseium about the Clintons and like Bill Gates and uh people like that, but not about um anything that could be damaging for the modern-day Republican party, right? Um, and as you know, my work tries to make very clear, you know, the the rot is definitely 100% bipartisan. Um, but the big giveaway here, because I I saw a headline um about how Gain uh how Hillary and Bill Clinton are going to be subpoenaed about their relationship with Gain Maxwell now as they're trying to distract away about how they're not going to release the files, which obviously have some something bad for both parties um in them. otherwise we would probably have them. Um, but the big giveaway here uh about that if the Clintons are subpoenaed and forced to testify or whatever or if Galain is asked about them is that Republicans are not going to touch one very important aspect of the Epstein Clinton relationship with a 10-ft pole and that is Jeffrey Epstein's 17 visits to the Clinton White House between 1993 and 1995. They will not touch that. And there is a reason why mainstream media has worked so hard to have all the scandalous coverage of Epstein and Clinton be after Clinton left office. No focus on before he when he was in office. And the same is true also I've argued in the past about Bill Gates uh because they won't talk about his relationship with Epste until he was no longer uh involved as chairman of Microsoft. So they want the pressure off of Microsoft. They want the pressure off of what was Epstein doing at the Clinton White House because it's really I would argue ultimately boils down to what I see as sort of the second coming of Iran Contra in the mid '90s. same network uh involved with uh this very crazy effort that's remembered as China gate today but it really has a lot to do with uh US and Israeli intelligence who of course were the bed fellows of Iran Contra and some of the connections they made to uh major Chinese weapons dealers and organized crimelike figure figures in Macau um and you know weird things there that involved a lot of military technology transfer from the US to China. Israel very involved in this. And it was even, you know, the CIA like acknowledged that in the early 90s. Um, but nothing was done to really stop anything. Um, and they don't really want to talk about that at all. Even though it involves China, it involves Clinton. You think it would be the perfect story uh for Trump. Uh, but no, they won't they won't touch it. And I write a lot about it very extensively in my book China. if you'd like more detail um on why that would be so bad for both parties. What about the Clinton Global Initiative in Epstein's connections to that? Is that something that would be off limits or do you think they might get into that? Yeah, they might do that. But I I um so Epstein was alleged to have created the Clinton Global Initiative or been part of a group that came up with the idea for it because I mean mainstream media will talk about Epstein's connection to Clinton philanthropy because obviously that's postpresidency when all of that happens and of course the Clinton has connections also with uh Tamar um that you know trying to get that uh promoted and and what have you. But also um as I'll be noting in the second part of my current series uh someone who's very close to Trump and very affiliated and is part of the current administration also had uh a major major major involvement with Tramar and the UN stuff and this weird economic passport scheme involving China gate people um and all sorts of very weird things and his uh wife was on the flight logs while underage among other things. So, uh, again, you don't want to go too into certain things because, as is the case with many things in the Epstein scandal, if you pull on a thread too far, it unravels and shows that this is a bipartisan issue and that we're run by corrupt oligarchs in their flunkies. And um you know I think for a long time the way they've tried the powers that be have tried to manage the fallout from Epstein is depending on what partisan box you are in you will either talk about Trump and Clint or sorry Trump and Epste or you will talk about Clinton and Epstein and not enough people talk about both or try and understand what's really going on um with the whole scandal and trying to figure out what it really teaches us and shows um because Epstein as I've noted before, really is uh it comes down to middle management. He's managing portfolios for powerful people. He was doing that in the 80s and late 70s at Bear Sterns and then he was doing that for Leslie Wexner um and a lot of these other people that he became involved with uh including you know running fi doing financial stuff for Netanyahu having connections to Ahood Barack. A lot of these don't like the Netanyahu tide like never gets covered. um only ahood Barack and actually Netanyahu used it as a lot of you know political attacks against Barack and I think the last election where Barack was a at one point a contender. Wasn't Ahood Barack among the people who attended Robert Maxwell's state funeral in Israel. Yeah, I believe so. Uh lots of important people attended it. Well, you know, Robert Maxwell uh had a role in Iran Contra uh who in in in that capacity was working for Israeli military intelligence. And during Iran Contra, the head of Israeli military intelligence, head of Aman, uh was Ah Barack. I have Robert Maxwell. I was working for Aman too. Uh not not MSAD. And he sold the software promise with the back door in it. He did. They got that all through the justice department on behalf of another nation state or two that would benefit from seeing into it. So it's like the AngloAmerican Israeli establishment. Two of those parties might not be our allies and have been working together for like the last century. And a lot of this can't be mentioned because it's the third rail topic which is what your two volumes are all about. The third rail topic. You could have another website just for third railisms. Like here's here's the thread if you guys want to pull on it. Not a lot of reward but you could pull on it. Well, there isn't a lot of reward for it. Um, and I think it's interesting that right now, um, there's a lot of efforts, I think, to manage the discussion about the Epstein scandal. Um, a lot of people that have been rolled out in high-profile interviews weren't interviewed about Epstein before now. Um, too, huh? Yeah. people like uh Mike Bins uh who previously uh was, you know, had an online alter ego named Frame Game where he was uh trying to I guess uh allegedly saying anti-semitic things and other things to fight anti-semitism covertly or something. It's it's a strange phenomenon. People should look into it. And then he also worked for the State Department under Trump um which is interesting. and then uh Seagar and Jetty former uh for several years fellow at the Hudson Institute. Uh other fellows include uh Nikki Haley, William Bar, um Mike Pompeo, you know, some well-connected figures. It's interesting. Um you know, and then Daryl Cooper is on Tucker and claims tries to attribute my book to someone else who has never written a book. It's very strange. Um, but I, you know, I think a lot of the people that are being promoted don't really talk about the bipartisan nature, leave certain things out. A lot of them, if they're, uh, in arguing about the intelligence ties are trying to keep it just Epstein and Israel are trying to keep it like in a very specific box. Um, and you know, my book has come up in some of these discussions, but it's kind of frustrating to me because I feel like a lot of people that have brought it up aren't reading it because it's very clear that this is a transnational um, issue that has developed uh, you know, from the 40s, arguably a little bit earlier, um, on and what I'm trying to get people to focus on is that this is not a power structure we can vote our way out of. Um, and that, you know, Trump, Clinton, Epstein, you know, they have a lot of the same people pulling their strings at the end of the day. Obama, too, as I mentioned earlier. Yeah. Um, yeah. So, you know, we're not going to vote our way out of the problems we're having. And if people don't realize that it's oligarchs really running everything and that this is an us versus them thing, uh we are going to get pushed into this insane technocratic society that is being built for us by uh people that uh hung out with Jeffrey Epstein like Peter Teal. Um and really Palanteer does what Epstein used to do. I argue this at the end of the book. Um because in the past, you know, sex blackmailing was necessary, but now it's not because they can find out everything about you from your online life and activities, sucking all the data up about you that has been put on the internet or through your phone or whatever. Um and Palunteer coalates all of that on behalf of all 18 US intelligence agencies. And um it's problematic uh among other things. And I I've been rambling for a while, so I'll uh pause there. It is problematic and it's unique in history that people who notice such things can have like books out and be able to have these discussions. I mean, you know, it's still pretty much a free world cuz we can say the words and they didn't come in and jack boot us yet. But there's definitely been an inclination over the past, you know, since 9/11 of taking away our rights, censoring people, getting rid of uh inconvenient narratives so that they can have like more of a big brother 1984 brave new world type of technocracy. Now, before we talk about your book, your new article, I brought a book for you. I want to see if you've ever seen or heard No, not this book. Let me let me There we go. Yeah, that's that's a fact. Jabatinsky. I've been meaning to do a work on him, a piece on him for some time. Oh, sorry. So, Jabatinsky, I want to hear more about that. But this is a book by this is art by Mark Lombardi. He was a conceptual artist about 20 years ago. He sadly died on 322 2000 right before 911. This cover art here. Let's see. Push this goes on the front and back. And so it's an entity relationship diagram with the Bush family, James R.Bath, Osama bin Laden and the Saudis. I see all the Gronon. Yeah. Great. So he used to do what you do, but instead of writing articles, he made all this art. Now here's here's the kicker for you. Well, we're looking at Unlimited Hangout, we just hired a graphic designer to make that stuff. So, okay, good. Good. Hopefully, we'll be having somebody's but I wanted to show you the kicker here. If you go in here, exhibition funders, the Judith Rothchild Foundation. So, he's tracking them and they're giving him gallery space or in this case posumously publishing his book. So, I just wanted to show you like uh he's not as well known as you are, but if you went through his art, you would see all the names that you see in your articles. And so, you know, there's it's like the site has been excavated before a little bit, not in the Epstein realm, but just in the AngloIraeli American establishment narco terrorism realm, right? And so this type of raw material out there is important whether it's written form like your articles where people have to read or conceptual where it's on a wall and you have to go look at it. Right? If it weren't for people like you dedicating so much time to figuring out what is actually going on, everybody would be lost. It's like you're developing a compass for people and giving that to them and says, "Hey, this is a compass without a magnet beside it. This is what it looks like." And they're like, "No, no, we prefer the magnet next to our compass. It makes us feel more comfortable." And so really you're you're redpilling people on one level, but you're also giving them like life-giving information because if they keep participating in these infrastructures and then find out later in life that they've climbed all the way up the ladder, but they're standing against the wrong wall, you know, you're preventing regret for people in the future. So like that's an honorable task. And like I said, I know it's like we what we do is not a rewarding type of thing for you know, the world's like fund any noise against our signal, right? Sure.
So, so I just wanted to rec recognize your bravery, your intrepidness, your tenacity, all these good things because that's kind of like what keeps us going. Yeah. Well, you know, personally for me, I just think it's uh important to let people I mean, I also like the research I do. It's like into I don't know. so much online is just like slop, like AI slop now. And I feel like there's a lack of original reporting and it I I like researching. So, I I feel really um uh lucky to be able to do this. But also like when you're a parent and you know like where this is going and like in our lifetimes as adults what we are likely to experience in the next few years like it you want to fight for a better world for the little people you know and you have to inform other people like this isn't something one just one of us can fight alone and it's very important I think that I try and that I try and use my um you know platform or interviews or whatever to urge people to develop something parallel to what the oligarchs have done. So if we spend all our time and energy and activism and all of that on electoral politics on this circus clown show um we're not spending any time building a parallel economic structure or uh something that will give us resilience at the local level. You know, because if anything, this there's some there's lots of things that get repeated in cycles, right, with ever since these oligarchs have been in charge. And one of those things is wealth transfers. They happen every so often. There's a crisis um that they engineer and create. And then the government response is to take regular people's money. Um and that is likely to happen again, especially now that the stable coin act has passed Congress. um we are going to get a digital dollar. You may think uh stable coins are better than a CBDC, but they are just as bad. Um especially if what you're worried about with a CBDC is programmability, surveillability, seizability, uh you know, do you think JP Morgan is not going to censor you and steal your money and all this stuff or deb or PayPal with their stable coin? Uh you know, if anyone remembers from the co era, PayPal debanked many people. JP Morgan also debanked people. Um, and they, you know, there was no recourse there. So, it's not necessarily better to give that kind of control over to a a private entity. Okay. So, it's not the Fed, but it's it's JP Morgan and all of these banks that, you know, took your taxpayer money in 2008. It's people even less accountable than the Fed. Now, it's going to be in the it's in the cloud. We don't know who's on the other end. But if you're familiar, you know, with how the Fed came to be and it was these entrenched banking dynasties taking control of monetary policy in the United States. Um, what better way? I mean, the Fed for them when they did that, it was the middleman between them and the government, but now what we're doing is that we're taking out the middleman with what's happening now. So, expect an effort to wealth transfer. Um, and it's not like I mean if you think Trump isn't going to facilitate the banker's designs, uh, I would urge you to investigate um, some of Trump's history or what the monetary policy his administration did during COVID, the going direct reset, which was basically fleece everyone that's not in the top few percent of the country. And a lot of people don't even know that happened. But if you're familiar, if you if you'd like to know more, you can go to Katherine Austin Fitz's Solari report or look at the work of John Titus on this. It's very well doumented and very bad. And it was designed by Black Rockck who used to be Trump's former uh Larry Frink used to be Trump's former money manager. And of course once Black Rockck got involved in the Bitcoin ETF business, Bitcoin culture started a slow decline from being anti-state and libertarian to being we love the government um and we love stable coins and we love buying US government debt and all all this madness. So um you know it's very important to develop economic uh resilience and we can do that at the local level and stop empowering these people. You know I think one of the reasons too why like Israel invested so much time and money and effort covert and overt and challenging the BDS movement boycott devest sanctions. Economic boycotts are powerful and we can boycott the oligarchs and if we're spending all of our time on vote for team red and blue um and all of that, uh we're never going to be able to do anything that extricates us from their their power. And the more we get pushed into the digital age, the more dependent we become on them for everything. And people need to really seriously think about how we avoid um you know basically becoming so dependent that we have no choice to basically be little better in than slaves to these people at some point. Harump that means I agree. Um to use our time judiciously. Let's go to your new article which Charlie and I went through. This is uh something worth bragging about. And my first question is then then I'll go to Charlie because he has questions too. Is Naomi Campbell the one that was married to Adam Clayton from You2? Is Is he Is you two involved in this? I think Well, I I didn't find you two involvement in it, but when I was looking into Naomi Campbell, yeah, I I don't know if they actually married, but they were I think engaged or in a very serious relationship, but I ended up not really including that um in the piece because I focused more on Bria Tori because I find him to be very uh interesting. though I did um talk about another one of Naomi Campbell's serious relationships who is uh forget his first name but like Vlad Donian or something. I don't know how to pronounce uh his name. I'm sorry about that. Um I know how to write it obviously, but I don't know how to say it. Sorry. uh but he uh was basically put on the map by Mark Rich who uh was a a fugitive from the US for some time uh a well-known by now and confirmed MSAD asset uh commodities trader mainly oil trader that created Glen Core which of course Glenor is now uh very much controlled by uh the Rothschild family so interesting overlap there um so um yeah I don't I didn't find any YouTube involvement ment beyond that uh relationship Campbell had, but it preceded her involvement with Bria. I just asked because I remember your observation that Bono is looking more more and more every day like Jimmy Savile. So, I didn't know if that those lines had crossed yet. It's in a future article, everybody. She'll find out at some point. All right. So, uh you wrote about this Fabio character profusely over here. Fabio Flavio. Flavio Briator. Yeah, his hair is not as good. Well, he he obviously underwent major uh had like a big makeover a few years ago. Um and it was talked about in Italian tabloids because the the transformation was like very noticeable. Um but cuz he wanted to be Fabio. He thought his name was spelled wrong on the birth certificate. He's wanted to be Fabio his whole life. All right. Seriously though, it's it's very possible. Uh I don't know. But he's like an Italian businessman who's like Trump. He's got connections to Epstein and Trump. And Naomi Campbell is like the the piece you put in there for the glimmer to get people to read the serious, right? They know Naomi Campbell. No one knows Fabio. Yeah, of course. And a lot of these people that slide under the radar, you know, aren't known by most people, which is what makes them so interesting. Um so as I mentioned earlier of course uh the main thesis of my book is about this national the national crime syndicate merging with intelligence and sort of becoming this this power structure. Um but of course the national crime syndicate who is that? Well it was really the Jewish American mob and part of the Italian mafia. And the figure of that that ran the Italian mafia component of that was Lucky Luchiano. And lucky Luchiano uh either during or right after World War II was deported to Italy and sort of became a point man there for this network that was that formed during Operation Underworld and continued thereafter. Um and a lot of and it's how Patton took Sicily to take over for like the invasion. That's a lucky mixed together. Sure. And so Luchiano and that network uh get involved with the Vatican and the CIA and all this Gladadio stuff. And I'm not really an expert on that. So I would refer people um to other people that have written extensively about that. But I did mention um a group that is important in this nexus in this article and also in my book which is the uh free masonic lodge P2 where propaganda do um which became a major scandal in Italy for basically being a subversive organization. It was labeled as such by the government and a lot of uh bank collapses and other things were sort of tied to that. Um and so we see in Flavio Briatori and also another person who's going to be covered in this series um that sort of uh they seem to be part of this power structure that represents in Italy the continuation of P2 and they are sort of all well not sort of they are all very connected to a P2 member former prime minister of Italy Sylvio Burleskonei who may be best known now for his Bango Bango parties where He uh was convicted of uh hiring an underage prostitute um and having uh weird orgies involving uh African rituals um among other things. But this is coming from Italian court. I'm not making that up. But Burlescone not only was involved with P2, he was also at many allegations over the years of him having organized crime affiliations and his long longtime friend Flavio Briator of course is the subject of this article. And Briator has another P2 connection. He actually got his start working for this company called Paramati that used to be owned by Michelle Sona. Uh who is one of the more notorious figures from P2 because even though he was he was imprisoned in in relation to the scandal. Um and uh he was under 24-hour constant police watch to prevent him from being killed. And then he was killed by cyanide cyanide laced coffee. Uhoh. Um sounds kind of familiar to other things we've been talking about. So uh Sona his business interests were handed off to various people that uh you know knew Sona and one of those people is a man named Atilio Duto uh who took over Pyramid. Um and Flavio Riator was his assistant. That's the first known job Ria ever had. Um and then DTO dies in a car bomb uh which remains unsolved in the late '7s and Briator left town. Uh, I found one source that said that Briator was charged with uh wrongdoing in relation to Paramotti's subsequent collapse. Uh, but I couldn't find any evidence he'd actually gone to trial for that. So, um, I'm not sure if that was actually true or not. But either way, um, working for that company is is interesting in and of itself. Becoming very involved with Burlescone is very strange. Um he got arrested for fraud in Italy in relation to his ties to organized crimer run illegal gambling dens after he moved to Milan. Um and then he ends up being a fugitive in the US Virgin Islands um for a long time and basically uh starts running the US interests of Luchiano Benitin of the United Colors of Benitin family and uh as their US representative and then he gets into Formula 1 racing which is probably what he's best known for because the Benitans got into Formula 1 racing and he uh was put you know in in team and became like the head guy at several prominent teams particularly um you know the Beniton team in the mid 90s won the Formula 1 championship backto back and Bria Tori was credited with that along with the the driver he was coaching uh Michael Shoemaker Shoeacher um who's uh was pretty famous for that era I didn't really know much about Formula 1 before that but what's interesting too is that Formula 1 at least in Canada and also in the US has been accused of acting as a hub for human trafficking um and in in Canada it's appar in Montreal in particular, it's like a major issue and and girls are told to like stay at home and not go out without an adult when Formula 1 events come to town. Um and anyway, why um this is also interesting is because as I note in the article um if with how the Epstein black book came to be um in the significance of the few names in that book that are circled uh that was Epstein's former butler circling material witnesses to Epstein's sex trafficking crimes as well as so like Gain Maxwell's name is circled, Jean Luke Bernell is circled, um Leslie Waxner is circled, Alan Dersowitz is circled. Um, Donald Trump is circled and so is Flavio Briator. And are they all are they all still alive with the exception of two people on that list? Maybe Brunell's dead. Brunell is the only one that's dead. I mean, obviously Epstein's dead, but he's not in the list of his own contact book. But yeah, and but no one except for Maxwell and Brunell out of all the circled names has ever been investigated or questioned as far as I know. Except maybe some of the softball questioning that reportedly Epstein lawyers like Brad Edwards did of Trump at one point, but that was like Trump volunteering stuff. Is available. Less Waxner is available for questioning because he's building his own city in Ohio right now, right? He's been building it. Uh New Albany Epstein helped him buy the land for that along with Jack Kesler that helped pick Jamie Diamond to be the CEO of JP Morgan. Um and they have a lot of uh weird things they're building there in New Albany. I hope to write about that soon because that's a another that's a technology link dump word document that I've had just sitting there for months while I haven't really been writing as much the past couple years. So hopefully I'll get something out on that soon. But it's it's interesting. Yeah. Now's the perfect time for you to find your pace again because they're cranking out this Epstein saga with tripling and d like doubling and tripling down on like, oh no, there's nothing else to see here. It's like I don't know about that. There's too much contextual history that we've all learned in the past 10 years at least. Right. Well, it's interesting that almost every major Silicon Valley oligarch had some sort of Epstein connection and there's no interest from either side and looking into that even though they're basically super inshed with the Trump administration. But, you know, other tech oligarchs are very inshed with the Democratic party like Reed Hoffman on the Democrat side, very extensive Epstein relationship. Why is no one asking about that? Um, and then, you know, more information was made uh public this year about Peter Teal and Epstein. Uh, and there's, you know, Kimal Musk, Elon Musk's brother, dating someone from Epstein's entourage and supposedly getting tours of SpaceX as a result of that relationship. And then Epstein allegedly advising SpaceX and helping, trying to take them private with Saudi money since Epstein was advising Saudi and Emirati sovereign wealth funds. um a lot of strange things that people just don't want to ask questions about as it relates to the case and I wonder why that might be. Um so yeah, I mean obviously there's a lot of threads on that no one really wants to pick on um in big media. Um and so obviously those are of extreme interest uh to me and I think they should be of interest to other people that are interested in and digging into sort of this particular network and trying to figure out what Epstein was really what he was really doing. Yeah, I think it's not that difficult if people just change their perspective. For instance, instead of like looking outside of the story, think of you are military intelligence director of Israel. You're Ammon. You got this guy Robert Maxwell that works for you. He's putting back doors in the software in the entire US judicial system. And you got Don Bar over in America who's the American version of Rafie Eton for Israel. I'm sorry, Bill Bar, the coverup artist extraordinaire. because that's what Bill Bar was in the early 80s for Iran Contra. Like he was known 50 years ago as a coverup artist. One of the Epstein lawyers also was involved in October surprise Iran Contra stuff. The Stanley Pottinger guy too. So if you're a a tiny nation state that's always fighting for your survival, wouldn't you want your intelligence directorate to be advising Saudi and Emirati money and getting in the middle of all their money laundering? Yeah, they have been for they have been for a long time though. I mean, what do you think the the rise of Muhammad bin Salman NB in BS was about? I mean, that was a coup against John Brennan's Golden Boy, who NBS put under house arrest. And then one of the biggest pictures in Epstein's residence when it was raided is Epste with MBS. And uh I personally think that one of the reasons Epstein was taken out during the first Trump administration, I don't necessarily mean just being killed but also being you know having being imprisoned and charged and all of that despite the nonprosecution agreement is because of this wider feud between Trump world because I think a lot of the same people behind Trump um are also were the people that Epstein was working for at that time even though they don't personally like each other at that point. I think the connections are are pretty clear there against what I would sort of call, you know, the faction of of which John Brennan is part and that John Brennan was mad as formerly being CIA station chief that the network he had worked to build and employ there and set up, you know, was all ready to go. His his the person he was closest to in Saudi Arabia was going to become king. Um, and then, uh, somebody tied to Epstein, that network comes in and puts in Young NBS, and NBS hangs a bunch of Saudi oligarchs upside down and the Ritz Carlton um, and does this crazy shakeddown and then does this charm offensive, and then the Jamal Kosogible stuff happens kind of inexplicably. People suddenly care about journalists being killed abroad. Very strange. uh they didn't care as much when uh you know Mike Pompeo and Trump's CIA on in the first term tried to kill Julian Assange or send him to prison for being a publisher and journalist. Um but they did care about Jamal Kosigible quite a bit. Um and Jamal Kosigible has all these you know obviously strange connections at Nan Kosigible uh being his uncle and also being very involved with the Muhaja in Afghanistan uh during operation cyclone among other uh strange connections there. Um and so s you know obviously this was an attack on you know Trump world and I think also Russia gate John Brennan's involvement in that was also an effort to try try and fight back over these kind of minations that were happening and I think Epstein was also kind of part of it as well um at the end of the day I think also the MBS stuff like when he first came to power and Epste wasn't in prison he announced like Sophia the robot was a citizen of Saudi Arabia I don't know if you guys remember that. But uh that was built by Epstein funded scientists. So I think a lot of the vision 2030 stuff from NBS was very Epstein influenced because he was very into AI very early and a lot of stuff we're seeing rolled out now. I mean the Epstein was bankrolling that from a very early stage. Glad the John Brennan angle just real quick just John Brennan is the CIA that was grooming the Saudis, right? John Brennan is the American version of Singinjin Philby who groomed uh Iban Saud in the first place for MI6. So a proxy network because the British are favorable about using the Saudis for proxy networks for the last hundred years of course. Well, they created Wahhabiism, right? Which was an extremist form. Those were they all backing of Hitler. But um the the John Brennan aspect, he went native just like Sin Filby did. He changed he converted to Islam. Pretty sure like he was pretty tight with their culture. So, he was really embedded in it. And then they come by and put NBS in charge because they're like, "Ah, Brennan's too invested in this. Look, he's take, you know, he's he's taking on NBS is is texting Kushner and Adam Newman of Wei Work and all. They're solving Middle East peace together. I mean, there were a lot of crazy NBS stories from that time that I think people have kind of forgotten a little bit. He was going to uh he was going to offer to receive Alaka mosque, the Dome of the Rock, brick by brick and reconstruct it in Saudi Arabia so that they could build the third temple in Jerusalem. Interesting. Um I wonder who might have wanted to have sponsored MBS to come to power. I don't know. It's a mystery. Let's go to Charlie while I think about that. I'm glad people are talking about Epstein, about the trafficking component. It's gross and it's important and and they should, but I wish they were talking about the other things as well. His relationship with Martin Noak at Harvard and evolutionary dynamics. You mentioned the Saudis and and Sophia the robot. How about his work with Ben Girtzil in the little Sophia, the 18inch doll for emotional support for girls that's wired up with cameras and microphones and all of and geo tagging and all of this like a pedto catalog if seen one. There's some things I wish people were more curious about with regard to Epstein because it's just it's like if you come come for the trafficking and stay for the little Sophia and all the AI he's working on, there's just it's a big conspiracy onion. Yeah, I've tried to tweet about Ben Girtzil a few times and have gotten uh some people not happy with me because he has teamed up very extensively with Charles Hoskinson, the Ethereum co-founder who knew now runs Cardano. Um, and uh, Cardano was oddly kind of promoted in one of the acts passed last year in crypto week. Um, and Hoskinson, I believe, was a pretty significant donor to Trump last cycle. Um, we'll see what happens there. But, you know, Epstein helped fund an AI center Girtzil was creating in Ethiopia. Um, and then now Cardano is running digital ID for school children that's mandatory in Ethiopia. Um, and uh, you know, Ben Girtzel's gotten really involved with them and no one's really pushed back about his Epstein ties, which I find kind of troubling. I guess they've memoryholed them to um, an extent, but people are still associating with him and a lot of these other um, scientists that were funding uh, you know, I mean, we're being funded by Epstein for a reason. We know that Epstein was really into eugenics, transhumanism, uh using AI to push both of those things uh forward as much as possible. Um and um also of course the use of AI and finance because a lot of people also overlook Epstein's financial crimes. Uh you know he was a big currency speculator and and trader. So was Peter Teal instantly enough at the very beginning. Um, and a lot of those guys uh have caused a lot of economic harm and basically can do major damage overnight. I mean, obviously Soros is most notorious for that. Um, but there's other figures that have done that kind of kind of stuff over the years, too. Um, do you recall where Soros got his origin funding? Do you know that fact? Uh, yeah. It's a I believe it's Edund Rothschild banking interests bankrolling him in the in the early60s or 1968 or 1969 quantum fund. Yeah, that's it. Okay. Late60s then. It's fascinating how they keep coming up. That's all I said London School of Economics contacts. Yes. Yeah. and sir evil de Rothchild and Lynn Forester to Roth child or up you know Peter Soros uh who's George Soros's nephew was another circled name in the black book and that has been sort of ignored and he was running the Soros London office which uh oh I believe a certain Scott Bessant was working at for a very long time too many coincidences that's the problem well it's just again you pull on one thread it becomes very quickly convenient for both sides You know, red team, blue team has taken a hit with this whole story. They want to put it under the rug for sure. Well, not even that. It's just such a crazy testament to how socially engineered people on both sides can be. You know, the right for years screamed about George Soros anything and then like a long-term multi-deade George Soros flunky is our Treasury Secretary and they're like, "He's based in a patriot." Okay. You know, I mean, that's fine. Uh, but how is it how are how are people so easily like shedding views they've had for decades um in like five minutes? I mean it's crazy. The engineering that happens through social media and mass media has been really extensive and now it's not happening in mainstream media anymore. It's happening on social media. It's happening on podcasts. But the big time podcasts that get a lot of views, you know, that's why Trump and JD Vance were going on Tim Dylan and Theo Vaughn and all of these platforms. Joe Rogan um you know they're not really granting the same inter you know that's what matters to them now and then you have like you know podcasters like Dan Bonino or whatever being deputy director and you know news host host of Fox and Friends being running the Pentagon you know those people have uh built trust with Trump's base and so they're the public face of these things you know but who's actually making the decisions I would argue it's the people behind them like Steve Fineberg of Cberus Capital Management as deputy Pentagon secretary. He used to own I think he still owns uh Dinecorp. So the guy that owns last week up with child sex trafficking and all sorts of terrible things. He's the deputy secretary. But look at Hegsith. Look at the Fox and Friends host that you guards the gates to hell. So that's what the Pentagon is, right? It's a big pentagram over there. So they got the symbology right. Well, don't be worried about it. Look, you got to see things from Cash's perspective first. Cross your eyes. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I shouldn't do that. But Andrew Andrew Schultz called him cockeyed Cash. And I laughed at that, so I'm going to stop laughing at that. That's not right. However, on a serious side, Cash Patel did not remember that you can't kill yourself in that that uh inmate palace that they have in New York, the correctional facility with the shoe. He didn't remember that until they told him cuz you know he said you know that he has look he's like I've been in these jails. I know how the things work. He killed himself. Well, you didn't remember that a couple months ago when you were like talk talk talking about this being a big conspiracy. So he suddenly remembered his experience and there's nothing to see there. It's totally believable and I'm not feeling gas at all. Not feeling gas lit at all. Yeah. Well, I mean RFK Jr. was once against RM mRNA vaccines and uh those seem to keep getting approved under him. I wonder if it has to do with uh the deputy secretary Jim O'Neal who is a longtime flunky of Peter Teal who's really into transhumanist medicine. It's all team America instead of instead of Derpa Derpa Muhammad Jihad, it's like DARPA DARPA DARPA. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Jim O'Neal was actually hired by a company uh not long before he was named deputy health secretary um that is about they're they want to inject aluminum into Alzheimer patients because they think it will uh cure them somehow. Depends on what cure means. If you mean Kennedy who says aluminum leads to neurotoxicity when it's injected into you. Um and then Jim O'Neal is like let's inject um aluminum into Alzheimer's patients for money. I that doesn't seem compatible to me. But um you know, one of those two people was on the Epstein flight logs. Um so yeah, maybe we need better options. I think uh free psilocybin for all the elderly. Let them try that instead of aluminum is probably better for them. Probably better. World could be a better place. Maybe you remember after CO though what the theme of the we was it was rebuilding trust. Oh yes. Right. How do we rebuild trust with the public now that we've hemorrhaged it during CO? And so all these people that Americans and Trump's base started to trust during CO, you know, they kind of got put in the government and now they're like switching around, but people are like, "This can't really be you. What's going on here?" I hope it's just part of building back better. Well, you know, uh, the W I know a lot of people framed it as quote unquote communist, but it's really all about the public private partnership, which is really more like fascism, I guess. Um but you know uh we've gone from the we being all into the governments the public sector they can move very easily into the private sector and still accomplish their uh their same you know agendas but through different vectors right and so Whitney's Whitney's right here's a fact check world economic forum this is the giant coffee table book by Klaus Schwab building an international institution for public private cooperation and all the people you've ever seen on TV, they're all in here. All these people, they're in on that agenda. So, yeah, it's not just international communism. It's also technocracy and a whole bunch of other stuff that they've wrapped up into the guise of non-local accountability, aka slavery. Well, it's, you know, quote unquote communist China working with quote unquote capitalist uh Israel and the United States and whatever. I mean, there's a lot of overlap there um you know, between economically at the end of the day. Um there's a really important quote that I would urge people to consider uh from Samuel Samuel Pisar who is Robert Maxwell's close confident and lawyer. Um but this was back in the early '7s when he was uh running this thing called like the US oh I forget what it was called now but it was about like bridging uh east and west for the purpose of commerce. and he was talking about how the nation state, he told Congress, the nation state is pretty much, I'm paraphrasing obviously, the nation state is irrelevant now because uh state-owned companies in China and Russia are uh doing joint ventures with multinational corporations based in the United States and the West and together they are forming an economic structure that makes the nation state irrelevant. That's basically what he said. a new world order in the early se well I mean pretty much right but I mean he's told Congress in the early '7s and Samuel Pisar was part of the same group behind Epstein I mean he was an operator in that too absolutely um and he uh actually he f he helped uh uh advise Steve Jobs and Steve Jobs referring to him said he didn't know work whether he worked for the KGB or the CIA but maybe he was working for both guys Robert Maxwell also had a lot of ties to Russian Soviet era intelligence So, and MI6 and KGB had a long strong relationship. Kim Philby was part of that bridge. He went native and went and lived in Russia, right? And his dad had done the same thing. So, there's like a whole pattern of repeating there. But, I just wanted to give you a quick pop quiz before we let you go with your busy day. Oh, man. Samuel Pisar has a famous stepson. Who might that be? I thought it was Anthony Blinkin. Did I get it wrong? Oh, I got No, you're right. That was his stepson. Yeah. Sorry for blanking on that. I'm very sleepd deprived. Um, don't be blanking on blinking. No, I shouldn't be. Well, I mean, you know, the news cycle is so crazy and so fast. It seems like the Biden administration happened like six years ago, right? We're not even a year through Trump round two and so much has happened. It feels like it's been ages. uh because there's these crazy huge stories and then the next thing happens and it's just like wait what I mean it's really like crazy hypernormalization time to such an extreme extent um that I think we're just becoming desensitized to scandal like in the US you know people were desensitized to war crimes and atrocity during the war on terror era and now it's just like those things don't even blip for most Americans um and now I guess they're trying to desensitize us to pedophiles in government um And uh just also constant like crazy stories just like nothing registers anymore. We're just like on to the next thing. Um attention span of mosquitoes and now we have to rely on AI to tell us what to think, right? Or what's real. This this is actually what Eric Schmidt and Henry Kissinger predicted predicted would happen in their in their book on AI which I encourage everyone to read because it basically was like um yeah everyone will become too stupid uh to use AI the masses will and there will be uh a two-tier society um there will be the people who program AI and decided subjective function and then the people that AI acts upon that lose the cognitive ability to understand what is happening to them. Yeah, it's so be careful about how you ingest media, guys. They got like the business plan uh for our reality based on Alisium right here. That's what they did. People should read it. It's it's a very quiet part out loud book um about what's going on right now and people should read it, especially if you know what kind of person Kissinger was because they frame a lot of it, you know, as warnings. We're worried this could happen. Are do you think Kissinger is actually worried about that if you know about anything about him? Well, he's dead now, so yeah, I guess. So, it's it's fine. I mean, that's what Bill Gates said about Epstein, right? He's dead now. Well, he's dead. So, uh, you know, in general, you always have to be careful. Hey, next time next time we want to talk about Jabatinsky. But before we let you go, Charlie, do you have any wrap-up questions for Whitney? No, I just I think everybody needs to go read her newest article, First Friends, because you know, from P2 to F1, you have no idea. Oh, that's good. I want to use that market right there. Well, actually, the last two installments of the series are much worse than this one. This is just kind of the appetizer. I think the other two are are really bad um in the implications. I think the last one's probably the worst. Um, but we may have that be an exclusive to the upcoming unlimited hangout uh print magazine uh that we're hoping to have out at some point this year and hopefully do somewhat uh regularly over the next you know several years for the same thing I was just talking about with um the impact of of AI on us and how it's shaping our reality because ultimately in that Kissinger Schmidt book they say the power of AI is that it will basically warp our ability to perceive reality and if you alter someone's perception you alter their behavior, right? Um so it's uh very important that we uh fight against that. And so a lot of um I think the efforts to sort of wear us down and make us u susceptible to this cognitive decline and all of that is to have us not think for ourselves, not read for ourselves, not investigate for ourselves, and eventually we stop thinking for ourselves pretty much entirely and have this thing think for us. Um, so you know the, you know, there was this slow food movement when people were reporting about how dangerous fast food is for you. Um, you know, I think that's true with content, too. You know, fast content is AI slop. You probably shouldn't be consuming it. It's probably not good for your brain. Uh so I would encourage everyone to invest your time and if you're a content creator to you know start working to produce slow content that is you know original and not I mean because we're so incentivized by the algorithm and we need the clicks and all of this stuff the metrics and all of that we need to move away from that if we want to fight this stuff and the new world order and all of that um we should really focus on slow content so that you know we're trying to get more in into physical media IA too and you know focus on long form journalism which there's not a lot of that happening right now period whether you're talking like mainstream or independent um you know it it's a lot of the focus is on on fast content and just talking about headlines from mainstream media not really doing deep dives. So, we're going to be focusing on that and hope to have um you know a print magazine out and we hope other people will will join us trying to help urge people back into the herd people back into the real world a little bit and out of this digital corral that's being made for us. I think it's uh really important. So, uh people can can look for that and and you know follow every we're not going to pay anything that's in the magazine either. So, it'll all be on unlimited hangout.com as well as will other articles, uh, you know, that we put out aside from the magazine, which we'll continue to be doing. You can read all about it. First Friends, how Italy's Donald Trump introduced Naomi Campbell to Jeffrey Epstein is part one in the series, and you're going to need to read this part to get to the other juicy parts. You can find it on unlimited.com. Whitney, thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule. This was fun and I look forward to uh getting on your calendar again to do it a little bit more in depth with Jabotinsky next time. Yeah, I would love that. Thanks, Richard. My pleasure to be here. All right. Conspiracy is a story of history. It's the story of plunderers taking care of people who produce. They claim to take care of them through government, which doesn't give you anything. It doesn't take away first. So, it's not creating something out of nothing. It's very real what they're doing. They're taking your rights or taking some people's rights and adding more to someone else's rights.
