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blackmail. I never heard that. I never saw it and I
2 never imagined it.3 TODD BLANCHE: While we're on this topic,
4 just -- and again, I know we're jumping around and
5
we've been going on it for a while, so I apologize.6 But there's recently been reports about a
7 birthday book that you assembled for Mr. Epstein, I
8 think, for his 50th birthday in 2003.
9 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's true.
10 TODD BLANCHE: What do you know about
11 that?
12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So, my mum did a
13 birthday book for my father at his 60th. And when
14 I -- Epstein would talk about his 50th, he said, I
15 don't know what I'm going to do. And I said, well,
16 these are nice things, my mom did this book for my
17 dad. He said, I love that idea.
18 He said, can you help coordinate it? And
19 he organized who -- he called a lot of the people
20 himself. I coordinated the putting together of the
21 book. And some -- in some instances, I called people
22 that asked them to contribute --
23 TODD BLANCHE: And what was in the book?
24 Like what was the ask of the people you called?
25 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It's his 50th
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1 birthday, say anything you want on a piece of paper.
2 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. Okay.
3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, nothing more
4 than that.
5 TODD BLANCHE: Right. I mean, it was an
6 obvious question. But you basically -- his folks
7 were invited to send something to you to celebrate
8 his birthday.
9 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. To say happy
10 birthday with like, have a wonderful day or something
11 else. There was no -- there was no ask, but I wasn't
12 responsible for everybody in that book. And there
13 were people that he would ask himself to contribute.
14 TODD BLANCHE: And do you remember some --
15 do you remember specific names of individuals who did
16 send letters or who did contribute?
17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It's been so long. I
18 want to tell you, but I don't remember.19 TODD BLANCHE: Do you --
20 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I honestly don't
21 remember.
22 TODD BLANCHE: The article talks about
23 several names, but including the folks -- the
24 article, which is on Donald Trump.
Do you remember
25 President Trump submitting a letter or a card or aMAGNA9
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note?
2 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't.
3 TODD BLANCHE: Do you think the
4 articles -- well, do you remember seeing that book or
5 any portion of the letters in your discovery in
6 New York?
7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
8 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. What do you remember
9 seeing?
10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I remember there
11 was -- there were some portions of that book. But
12 what surprised me -- yeah. What surprised me was how
13 few there were, because I thought if you had those,
14 where are the rest? There was none of Mr. Trump.
15 TODD BLANCHE: In your discovery?
16 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Oh, in my discovery,
17 sorry. President Trump, there was nothing from
18 President Trump.
19 TODD BLANCHE: And do you remember -- but
20 separate and apart from your discovery, do you
21 remember one way or the other whether President Trump
22 submitted a letter for his 50th birthday?
23 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do not remember.
24 TODD BLANCHE: And the article that
25 references the letter talks about like a -- soundsMAGNA9
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like either a naked -- a picture of a naked woman or
2 something like that.
3 Do you have any recollection of that?
4 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do not. But just --
5 no, I don't.6 TODD BLANCHE: Do you remember -- so what
7 do you remember seeing from your discovery around the
8 book? Like you said, portions of it or some of the
9 pages.
10 What do you remember.
11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I remember there were
12 maybe -- so I just want to say about the discovery
13 that I had about --
maybe this is an exaggeration,
14 I'm not sure, but in my mind it's about close to 5
15 million page -- 5 million documents. It was a lot.
16 And of that giant document dump that I
17 received, I was only -- maybe as much as 30 to 35
18 percent, I was never able to access. And this is
19 documented on -- at the court. And so I cannot say
20 that I saw everything, because I didn't.
21 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. Okay.
22 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I just want you to
23 know that. And I think that that was by design.
24 TODD BLANCHE: But you -- but you do
25 remember --
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GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do remember some
2 pages.
3 TODD BLANCHE: -- seeing some pages of the
4 book?
5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do, yes.
6 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Do you remember what
7 pages you saw? Like from -- it was from -- who had
8 written those letters or no?
9 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I really don't
10 remember. I'm sorry.11 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. It's okay. Did you
12 -- did you and/or -- so the same questions we've
13 asked about some other individuals.
14
Did you have -- did you meet Bill Gates
15 over the years?
16 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
17 TODD BLANCHE: Because of your
18 relationship with Mr. Epstein or separate?
19 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That one -- well, I
20 met Mr. Gates -- I went to the TED conference. I
21 gave -- I went to the TED conference and I actually
22 spoke at the TED Conference, not the main stage, the
23 substage. And I also gave several TEDx's.
24 But -- and I met him there, but we were
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his -- I don't know if he was chief of staff or
2 whoever, Boris. And I met him, I think, once. I may
3 have met him actually at 71st Street. I may have
4 once. I don't remember if I met him there or at a
5 restaurant, I don't remember. And that would've been
6 because of Epstein, because Epstein was friendly with
7 Boris and Boris -- that's all I remember.
8 TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
9 Mr. Gates traveled with Mr. Epstein on his plane to
10 any of his houses?
11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So if that -- that
12 friendship was after, you know, it was in the late
13 2000s. So if I met him -- like I said, I went to
14 Epstein's house maybe once or twice. Maybe I met him
15 there. I don't remember.16 TODD BLANCHE: So you don't --
17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I wouldn't know if
18 he had been on Epstein's plane.
19
TODD BLANCHE: And you weren't -- you
20 don't recall ever being on the plane with him flying
21 to the island or to anywhere?
22 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
23 TODD BLANCHE: Do you know somebody named
24 Reid Hoffman?
25 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do.MAGNA9
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1 TODD BLANCHE: Who's that?
2
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Reid is a Silicon
3 Valley guy.4 TODD BLANCHE: Is what?
5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Silicon Valley.
6
TODD BLANCHE: And how do you know him?
7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Through my friends in
8 San Francisco. I have a -- I used to have a very
9 close friend who is in San Francisco who's part of
10 that whole -- I have several, actually, or had.
11
TODD BLANCHE: So is that a relationship
12 you had kind of separate and apart from Mr. Epstein?
13 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Separate.
14 TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether
15 Mr. Epstein had a relationship with Reid Hoffman?
16 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know.
17 TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever observe
18 Mr. Hoffman flying anywhere with you or Mr. Epstein?
19 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
20 TODD BLANCHE: Or getting massages?
21 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. No.22 TODD BLANCHE: So there was -- there's a
23 list of multiple masseuses that is floating around.
24 I think you had in your discovery. I think you were
25 just talking about that.
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That list, do you know how that list was
2 created?
3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. That -- all that
4 stuff that came out of that book, I now find suspect.
5 TODD BLANCHE: As far -- as part of the
6 story you just told us?
7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Now, I'm not
8 saying it's all fake. I don't know what's real and
9 what's not. I don't --10 TODD BLANCHE: Understood.
11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: -- know what name is
12 true. Now that it's been to my mind anyway,
now that
13 it has been, without a doubt, contaminated and
14 possibly fraudulent, I'm not -- I don't know. I
15 mean, obviously the numbers that I recognize are my
16 own, those are real.
17 But how it was actually ended up put
18 together and compiled and the purposes for it, for
19 which then they blackmailed my boyfriend, now I'm
20 just -- no.21 TODD BLANCHE: Over the years when you
22 were serving as like the general manager, so the mid
23 '90s all the way into the 2000s.
Did you or do you
24 know whether anyone maintained a list of all the
25 masseuses, like a running list?MAGNA9
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1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So there would've --
2 so there's two things -- well, three ways. So I know
3 that the house itself,
John Alessi had a Rolodex that
4 he kept the names and numbers of all the people that
5 came to the house so that he could call.
6 So --because I only was with Epstein, even
7 at best, half the time. So when I was there, he had
8 like his chief of staff who could find whatever he
9 needed. And when I wasn't there, he had to rely on
10 somebody else, right? So it'd be that John Alessi or
11 whoever else.
12 So everybody -- whoever was traveling with
13 him or wherever he was, he needed somebody else to
14 access information. So he had an assistant chief who
15 was his secretary, who would be the one that would
16 update his computer, you know, like everybody has an
17 address book.18 TODD BLANCHE: But was what you're
19 describing, which I'm not -- it makes sense. I'm
20 just --
was that a list of masseuses or a list of
21 people that might need to be contacted, which would,
22 necessarily, include a lot of masseuses?
23 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's -- the latter.
24 TODD BLANCHE: And did you update that?
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that would add names to it? Like if a masseuse came
2 and leaves and Mr. Epstein says yes, she was good,
3 would you be part -- like, how, how was the list kind
4 of maintained or who maintained it?
5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Typically, no --
6 TODD BLANCHE: No.
7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: -- because there would
8 be an assistant who would do that. Plus, Epstein
9 would not allow me to answer the telephone ever. So
10 -- or maintain or keep any of his messages in the
11 office or at the house.
12 So typically that wouldn't be, because I
13 wouldn't be the one. Could I say to you I never did
14 it? No, of course not. Because that just seems
15 ludicrous. But as a rule of thumb, the answer would
16 be no.17 TODD BLANCHE: During the 2007, '08, '09,
18 investigation -- the investigation out of the
19 Southern District of Florida. So you said that you
20 weren't contacted by law enforcement.
21 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was not.
22
TODD BLANCHE: After Mr. Epstein was
23 charged, did you have conversations with him about
24 the investigation?
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about it.2 TODD BLANCHE: Did you --
3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, I can't --
4 let's put it this way.
If he did, I have no
5 recollection of it. I mean, I'm sure he must have
6 said, this is all -- whatever he said or it's nothing
7 or whatever.8 I mean, I just don't have any -- I just
9 don't have any memory. I mean, I just -- I was with
10 Ted. My --
I was like gone. I mean, plus I just
11 didn't want to know either, I suppose.12 TODD BLANCHE: So you don't know,
13 firsthand, why the U.S. Attorney in Florida made the
14 deal that he did? Meaning you weren't part of that
15 discussion along the way.
16 Like Mr. Epstein didn't say, I'm getting a
17 good deal or, you know, I -- something is happening
18 with the case that's very good.
19 You were -- to the extent you know
20 anything about it, it's just from what you've heard
21 or read from others, not from Mr. Epstein; is that
22 right?
23
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He never talked about
24 the non-prosecution directly with me, no. But he did25 --
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1 DAVID MARKUS: But it's still enforceable
2 as to her.
3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, he never said,
4 hey, do you -- are you happy with this deal like
5 that.
But I understood. He never -- he never
6 enjoined me to the NPA, but I understand that he
7 included me, specifically, and I'll tell you why.
8 DAVID MARKUS: Well, it's okay. You don't
9 need to get into that.10 TODD BLANCHE: No, no. Yeah. I'm not --
11 I don't want to talk about the legal -- the -- what's
12 on appeal. I'm just --
13 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I -- well, I
14 wasn't.
15 TODD BLANCHE: The reason for my question,
16 just to be -- I'm not trying to hide something, but
17 there's a very strong belief that he got a very good
18 deal. And that he should -- she -- he should have
19 been sentenced to more time or got a different
20 sentence from the feds than a non-prosecution
21 agreement.
22 And I'm not asking you to opine on that,
23 but I'm wondering whether he ever talked to you about
24 that. But it sounds like he didn't.
25 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That he got a good
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1 deal. No. I think actually --
well, his comments
2 that I've read was that he didn't get a good deal.
3 And I think that the, you know, when he fought it so
4 hard is because he didn't think he did.5 TODD BLANCHE: When he was serving his
6 sentence, were you ever -- were you around during
7 that time, like when he was allowed to leave during
8 the day or travel during the day?
9
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never called him. I
10 never saw him and I never went to the jail.11 TODD BLANCHE: So I'm going to ask you
12 questions that you shouldn't read into them. I just
13 want to know whether you -- whether they resonate
14 with you.
15
Have you ever had any contact with any
16 representative, that you know of, from Mossad, the
17 Israeli intelligence agency.
18 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Can you ask me that
19 again.
20 TODD BLANCHE: Has -- have you ever had
21 any contact with an individual that you understand to
22 be from Mossad, an Israeli intelligence agency?
23 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, not
24 deliberately.
25 TODD BLANCHE: Pardon me?MAGNA9
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1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Not deliberately.
2 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. And did you know --
3 we asked this -- we talked about this a little bit
4 earlier, but just to put a finer point on it. Did
5 you ever know that Mr. -- did you ever -- were you
6 ever told --
did you ever think that Mr. Epstein was
7 getting any money from any intelligence agency,
8 including Mossad?
9 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I don't believe
10 so, but I wouldn't know. I mean, I would be very
11 surprised if he did. I don't think so. No.The Mysterious Death of Robert Maxwell ...
November 5th, 1991. The Atlantic Ocean off the Canary Islands. The naked body of Robert Maxwell floats in the dark waters beside his yacht. The Lady Ghislaine, the media baron who built an empire on lies, who served multiple masters and intelligence, had met his end. But death, as we've learned, often it's just the changing of the guard. Eight days later at Mount of Olives in Jerusalem, Israeli Prime Minister Yitzak Shamir delivers Maxwell's eulogy to a congregation that reads like a who's who of Israeli intelligence. Six service heads, politicians, spies, all gathered to honor the man who did more for Israel than we can explain today. And that's a quote. What they couldn't explain then was how Maxwell's death would birth something far more sinister. How his daughter Ghislaine would carry forward his methods. How a mysterious financier named Jeffrey Epstein, already lurking in Maxwell's London offices throughout the 1980s, would perfect the art of blackmail that Robert Maxwell had pioneered. ...
Robert Maxwell: The Prototype for Jeffrey Epstein Before Jeffrey Epstein was Jeffrey Epstein, there was Robert Maxwell. And before Robert Maxwell was Robert Maxwell, he was Ján Ludvík Hyman Binyamin Hoch, born 1923 in what is now Ukraine. The parallels between Robert Maxwell and Epstein aren't just striking, they're instructive. Both men were chameleons. Both built their fortunes on other people's money. Both served Israeli intelligence at the bare minimum, among other state agencies, and both allegedly used sexual blackmail as their primary weapon.
Now the primary connection through Maxwell is Israeli military intelligence. Hence him being buried with military honors not having been in the military. So Maxwell comes before Epstein. He's the prototype, the proof of concept if you will. And the picture of Maxwell's true nature is drawn from declassified British intelligence files, and in the testimony of former Israeli operatives. He used more aliases than a cold war spy. John Ludvik, Jan Ludvik, Ivan Leslie du Maurier, Leslie Jones. He didn't settle on Robert Maxwell until he married Elisabeth Meynard in Paris on March 14th in 1945. So even this guy's identity was borrowed.
At 12 years old, he joined the Betar Movement, a Jewish Zionist organization. This wasn't summer camp. This was ideological training and the recruitment for a future asset. The establishment media really, they don't touch Maxwell, but those who wade into those waters want you to believe Maxwell was a legitimate businessman who might have had some intelligence connections. But according to declassified documents and insider testimony, it's exactly the opposite. He was an intelligence operation, masquerading as a businessman.
In 51, Maxwell took control of a German publishing house, Butterworth Springer, renaming it Pergamon Press. The mainstream media portrays this as a shrewd business acumen. But according to the sources we've reviewed, this wasn't Maxwell's deal at all. It was an MI6 intelligence operation funded by Sir Charles Hambro, director of the Bank of England and former head of special operations during World War II. Maxwell wasn't the buyer. He was the front man, the cutout, the face they put on a British intelligence operation to acquire scientific journals that had been published under the Third Reich.Intelligence Operations and BlackmailIt gets a little more interesting. In 54, Maxwell is sent to Russia to publish and translate Russian scientific articles. British Foreign Office files made public in 2003 confirmed what intelligence agencies suspected all along, which was that Maxwell was funded by Russia and working for the KGB. Think about this. The same man who's working for a little bit for British MI6, Russian KGB, Israeli intelligence, likely a little bit of CIA, simultaneously. The KGB did later acknowledge Maxwell a high up Soviet agent, although they did question his loyalty. Fair enough. Because Maxwell's true allegiance wasn't to Britain or Russia, it was to Israel.
As early as 48, Maxwell played a major role in arming Zionist paramilitaries. He helped smuggle aircraft parts for Israel through the anti-Stalinist Czechoslovakian government. He didn't just support Israel's creation. He was one of the engineers of logistics. Victor Ostrovsky, the notorious MOSSAD defector who wrote by way of deception, confirmed Maxwell's deep MOSSAD ties. British intelligence agencies eventually described Maxwell as a Zionist that was loyal only to Israel and a prominent MOSSAD agent. That doesn't mean he didn't dabble with other intelligence agencies and he certainly had properties in other countries.
At this point, Maxwell's story becomes a template for Epstein. According to Ostrosvky and other sources, Israeli intelligence services satisfied Robert Maxwell's sexual appetite by supplying him with prostitutes. This wasn't just a perk of the job. It was leverage. Maxwell's hotel rooms were rigged with cameras, and Israeli intelligence acquired a small library of video footage of Maxwell in sexually compromising situations. So they weren't rewarding their asset. They were controlling him with blackmail.
Meanwhile, Maxwell's media empire became a vehicle for intelligence operations. In 1989, he partnered with the Soviets to take over pharmaceutical company teva. He acquired ownership of the Jerusalem Post, adding to his control of right-wing Daily Mirror publications. But the real money came from a darker source. According again to Victor Ostrovsky, this is a quote, "The MOSSAD financed many of its operations in Europe with money that was stolen from Maxwell's newspapers pension fund."The Connection Between Maxwell and EpsteinOstrovsky claims that MOSSAD gave the money to go ahead and buy the Mirror Group Publishing, and the moment they he got it, they took over all of the pension fund money. Weeks after Maxwell's death, authorities discovered a $560 million hole in the Mirror's pension fund.
Ostrovsky's allegations allegedly confirm Maxwell's most infamous betrayal involved Israeli nuclear technician Mordechai Vanunu who exposed Israel's secret Dimona nuclear facilities to the world. So that's Vanunu and Dimona. Vanunu took his information to Maxwell's Mirror publications trusting the media baron to help him expose the truth. Instead, Maxwell called the Israelis. Vanunu was lured to Italy, drugged, abducted, secretly transported to Israel, and spent 18 years in prison, including over 11 years in solitary confinement. That's a playbook. Gain trust, exploit secrets, betray those who trust you, serve your handlers above all else.
By the 1980s, according to former MOSSAD agent, who we've previously mentioned in this series, Ari Ben-Menashe, Maxwell was brokering deals between the MOSSAD and the KGB that allowed Israelis to hide money from arm sales to Iran. This is part of the Iran Contra affair, but not the way you learned about it in school. The official story says America shipped arms to Iran to secure hostage releases. But according to Ben-Menashe, it was actually a deal for Israel to arm and train militants in Nicaragua with the cash laundered through Russia via Maxwell's networks.
And here's the key detail to this story. Throughout the 1980s, while Maxwell was orchestrating these international intelligence operations, a young financier named Jeffrey Epstein was a regular to Maxwell's London offices. And we covered this. The one thing Epstein was good at, and it was probably 70% of his operation versus the smaller percentage of the weird gross sex trafficking stuff with underage girls, was doing all sorts of illegal money laundering and hiding money. And that was what he was good at. 80% of the people in his damn black book are probably people who committed financial crimes, not sex crimes. [LC: It can be both.] You notice nobody in the media talks about that.
Political Manipulation and Blackmail Techniques
The mainstream media wants you to believe Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell met in the 1990s after Robert Maxwell's death. But again, Ari Ben-Menashe tells a different story. He claims to have had several meetings with Jeffrey Epstein in Robert Maxwell's office all throughout the 80s, a full decade before the official narrative. Ari Ben-Menashe was explicit. Both Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell quote were agents for Israel unquote. ...The Legacy of Robert Maxwell's NetworkSo the connections are consistent. Multiple sources, multiple testimonies, all pointing to the same conclusion. Epstein was being trained by established intelligence assets throughout the 80s. Ghislaine Maxwell was also being trained, including Sir Douglas Lease, who we mentioned. Adnan Khashoggi and Lease was a British arms dealer who again, according to sworn testimony from Steven Hoffenberg, allegedly trained Epstein in arms trafficking and money laundering.
Ari Ben-Menashe asserted Ghislaine accompanied her father so frequently that she was involved in his intelligence related activities to some extent. And think about this. While other young women her age were attending university or starting careers, Ghislaine Maxwell was allegedly learning intelligence tradecraft from Israel's most important assets.
Again, back to Hoffenberg testimony, who partnered with Epstein in the tower's financial Ponzi scheme, he later claimed that Epstein boasted of his ties to Israeli intelligence services. Crucially, Hoffenberg stated it was Ghislaine Maxwell who had made the introduction. Even after Robert Maxwell's death in 1991, the networks remained intact. Finnberg maintained ties with the Epstein Maxwell connected networks using quote the same lawyers that Robert Maxwell had used to take over the New York Daily News. When Hoffenberg later tried to buy the New York Post, the operation was way bigger than any one person. It was an infrastructure at this point, a system, a network designed to survive the death or imprisonment of any individual component.
Here's something that is a little terrifying. According to documents that are public, Epstein visited the Clinton White House 17 times between 93 and 95, often accompanied by attractive young women. These are the questions that won't be asked if Bill and Hillary Clinton answer a subpoena to Congress next week that's been sent out. This is where Congress isn't going to go, because those probably weren't social calls.
Epstein had a dramatically underreported relationship with the Clinton White House that pointed towards a major scandal of the Clinton era that has not been revealed or investigated. Many of these meetings, which we covered a couple episodes ago, were with Mark Middleton, who later died under the most ridiculously suspicious circumstances in May 2022. All right, I'll say it. He allegedly hung himself, and then shot himself twice in the chest with a shotgun. Middleton was probably embroiled in foreign espionage activities related to quote illegal fundraising efforts for Bill Clinton's 96 re-election campaign. One of Epstein's 1990s girlfriends, Francis Jardine, who lived in Epstein controlled apartments that used to house underage girls, accompanied him at two at least one of his visits to the Clinton White House. So Jeffrey Epstein is bringing young women, potentially underage women, into the White House while allegedly operating a sexual blackmail network for Israeli intelligence....
Jeffrey Epstein, the perfect student of Robert Maxwell's Academy of BlackmailSo now, August 15th, 2019, 5 days after Epstein's alleged suicide, The New York Post runs a cover story with the headline, The Post finds her, featuring an exclusive photo of Ghislaine Maxwell at an In-N-Out Burger in Los Angeles. The photo shows Maxwell looking relaxed, reading a book, apparently hiding in plain sight. And the message was clear. We found the elusive socialite when law enforcement couldn't. Except it was all theater. The Daily Mail discovered metadata showing the photo was taken by Meadowgate, a company owned by Leah Saffian, who is Ghislaine Maxwell's defense attorney and fixer. The photo was allegedly staged by Maxwell's own team.
The staging likely went deeper than anyone initially realized considering in the background of the photo is a movie poster for good boys. A comedy about the sex lives of pre-teens for Christ's sake. So when investigators checked with outfront, the company that manages bus stop advertising, they were told, "We do not have any records of this good boy's poster being posted there." So the poster was allegedly photoshopped into the image. So this isn't just alibi creation. It's psychological warfare. If that's true, the choice of movie poster about pre-teen sexuality in a stage photo of the alleged madam of a child sex trafficking ring wouldn't be a coincidence. Maxwell was also photographed reading the book of honor, the secret lives and deaths of the CIA. As one commenter noted, this is just an FU to the public. The New York Post's role in this deception raises disturbing questions about media complicity in intelligence operations. Give me a break. I kind of get the feeling now that the CIA has been in every newsroom since Kennedy's head exploded in Daily Plaza. What if Israeli intelligence had reach into the New York Post's newsroom? What if they're blackmailing somebody there? Cuz it sure looks like that whole release is more of a way to either protect, or be sadistic. I don't know. They can't be that stupid. I digress. --
https://survivorbb.rapeutation.com/viewtopic.php?f=227&t=4626&p=41440#p41440
12 TODD BLANCHE: We've talked about a lot of
13 names and I'm sure we've -- there's some that we
14 haven't covered. Are there any foreign nationals --
15 so right now we've talked about some British, the
16 Royal Family a little bit, and maybe high society
17 folks in Britain.
18
Were there any international businessmen
19 or politicians that had a very close relationship or
20 a close relationship with Mr. Epstein, that we
21 haven't already talked about?
22 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Off the top of my,
23 head, I can think of Ehud Barak.
24 TODD BLANCHE: You said that Mr. Epstein
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taking testosterone. Did you ever know him to take
2 any other drugs?
3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. I mean, he took
4 pills for his heart, I think, but I don't -- no
5 other -- no substances.
6 TODD BLANCHE: What -- do you know
7 anything about his heart condition? I know we talked
8 about this at, you know, 9:45 this morning. But do
9 you know anything about his heart condition, beyond
10 that you understood he had a heart condition that
11 affected his ability to have sex?
12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Other than what he
13 told me, no. He never shared anything, but he did
14 take pills. I don't know what -- I don't know
15 anything above that. And like I said, he did the
16 testosterone, which made him mean.17 TODD BLANCHE: And we're jumping around a
18 little bit.
19 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry.
20
TODD BLANCHE: Sorry. Do you know someone
21 named Donald Barr?
22 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
23 TODD BLANCHE: He is -- I can represent to
24 you, was a former headmaster of the Dalton School,
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1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: All right.
2
TODD BLANCHE: Do you remember any
3 conversations with Epstein about a book that Mr. Barr
4 wrote called Space Relations?
5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I've never heard of
6 that.
7 TODD BLANCHE: About aliens and sex?
8 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. No.
9 TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether --
10 well, have you ever met the former Attorney General
11 of the United States Bill Barr?
12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No.
13 TODD BLANCHE: Do you remember whether
14 Mr. Epstein knew him or whether his name ever came up
15 in conversations you had with Mr. Epstein?
16 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't recall any.17 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Did you have a
18 relationship or know -- I'm using "relationship," but
19 I appreciate you don't like that word.
20 Do you have -- did you know
Mr. Epstein's
21 brother Mark Epstein?
22 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
23 TODD BLANCHE: How did you know him?
24 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Through Jeffrey.
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relationship; close, friendly?
2 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My personal?
3 TODD BLANCHE: Yes.
4 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Not that close, but
5 friendly enough. I mean, you know.
6 TODD BLANCHE: How was Jeffrey Epstein's
7 relationship with his brother Mark from what you
8 observed?
9 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, they were
10 brotherly, but I think that -- I don't know. I don't
11 know. They had periods when they were closer and
12 then when they weren't. I think sometimes Epstein
13 found his brother irritating.14 TODD BLANCHE: And I think I know the
15 answers, given what you just said about Bill Barr,
16 but
did you ever hear any -- from Mr. Epstein or
17 anybody else -- that Bill Barr had any role in
18 Mr. Epstein getting a good plea deal in Florida, or
19 any role in that process with Mr. Acosta?
20 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never heard that.
21 TODD BLANCHE: I think you said this in an
22 interview, but if I'm wrong forgive me. Do you have
23 a view of Mr. Epstein of whether he committed suicide
24 or whether something else happened?
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1 TODD BLANCHE: Want to take a break?
2 DAVID MARKUS: Yeah, sure.
3 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. We can take a break.
4 Yeah. Sure. Actually, it's a good time to take a
5 break anyway, because it's to be the last one of the
6 day.
7 SPENCER HORN: All right. So we're going
8 to take a break at -- it's 2:53, Thursday, July 24th.
9 (Off the record at 2:53 p.m.)
10 SPENCER HORN: We are continuing with the
11 recorded proffer of Ms. Maxwell. The time is now
12 3:10 p.m., Thursday, July 24th.
13 TODD BLANCHE: My colleagues alerted me to
14 a couple questions I think I may have forgotten to
15 ask you. One is -- sorry, I'm just going through my
16 notes.
17
Well, we talked few minutes ago about this
18 birthday book that there's press about. I understand
19 you don't remember anything with President Trump or a
20 lot about the book anyway.
21 Do you remember asking President Trump to
22 submit a letter for that?
23 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do not.
24 TODD BLANCHE: And do you remember --
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somebody else -- would somebody else have done that?
2 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I did ask some people.
3 I don't remember Mr. Trump. I don't remember who I
4 did ask, but Epstein also asked people himself
5 directly.
6 TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So it could have
8 happened that way, if it happened at all.9 TODD BLANCHE: Where is that?
10
DIEGO PESTANA: You mentioned Ehud Barak.
11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
12 DIEGO PESTANA: What was his involvement?
13 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: This would've been in
14 the later 2000's. So I do not know how they met, but
15 I do know that they -- I don't know if friendly would
16 be the right word. I don't know that, but I know
17 that they saw each other and only because my
18 father -- you know, anything that touches Israel or
19 the state of Israel, I'm always interested in,
20 because my father loved Israel and so I pay attention
21 to it and we have ties to, you know, to Israel.
22 TODD BLANCHE: When you said it was later
23 though --
24 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Ties meaning friends
25 and family relations.MAGNA9
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TODD BLANCHE: Was the Prime Minis- was
2 Mr. Barak, Prime Minister Barak, do you know what the
3 nature of his relationship was with Mr. Epstein?
4 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't.
5 TODD BLANCHE: Do you know -- were you
6 ever with them together?
7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think I met -- I
8 have a memory of meeting Ehud, but I don't know if he
9 was with Epstein or -- I don't remember. I just know
10 that I did see him and I'm trying -- struggling to
11 remember the context around it, but if I -- if -- I'm
12 sure it happened, but it must have been very brief.
13 Because I don't have any serious memory of it. Any
14 like, deep memory of that.15 TODD BLANCHE: And maybe this is
16 obvious --
17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And maybe it comes
18 also because I've read it in the press. That may be
19 something that brought it to my memory. So that's
20 also -- I mean, I'm also --
I think the press has
21 been very contaminating, so I just -- it's hard
22 sometimes to separate those stories from your memory
23 sometimes.
24 TODD BLANCHE: Do you know a British
25 gymnast by the name of Heather Mann?MAGNA9
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1 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.2 TODD BLANCHE: Did she --
3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I didn't know she was
4 a gymnast.
5 TODD BLANCHE: Oh, okay. I'm reading
6 something that says she was a gymnast, but please
7 don't assume that that's correct. This is based upon
8 my words.
9 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay.
10 T
ODD BLANCHE: Did she ever travel with
11 you and/or Mr. Epstein?
12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think, yeah, she did
13 actually. I think that she might have been one of
14 Mr. Epstein's girlfriends at some point.
15 TODD BLANCHE: What -- again, I know we're
16 talking about time periods that are vast. What time
17 period would that have been? Like after you --
18 like since 2000?
19 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I want to say -- I
20 don't know, it could be the '90s -- could be the
21 '90s, I don't know. But I mean, listen, there are
22 people that pop out of the woodwork all the time. I
23 just saw one on TV saying she was his girlfriend in
24 '93 and '94. So I mean, he obviously was very busy.
25 LEAH SAFFIAN: Or she's lying.MAGNA9
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GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Or there's that.
2 TODD BLANCHE: Did - someone named Mark
3 Middleton --
4 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, I remember him.
5 TODD BLANCHE: Who was that?
6 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He was in the --
7 Mr. Clinton's administration -- President Clinton's
8 administration, I think.
9 TODD BLANCHE: And how do you -- do you
10 know him?
11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I met him and
12 that is -- I met him through Mr. Epstein.
13 TODD BLANCHE: And do you -- was he, from
14 what you observed, was he a friend or business
15 acquaintance of Mr. Epstein?
16 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, I only saw him
17 a handful of times, but I did see him with him. I
18 mean, he seemed friendly. I don't know if I would
19 characterize -- I mean, only having seen him briefly,
20 I don't know how to characterize that.
21
TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether he like
22 flew on airplanes with Mr. Epstein? Did he visit the
23 island? Do you know anything about that or their
24 relationship as it relates to that?
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have any recollection of seeing Mark Middleton at the
2 island.
3 TODD BLANCHE: How about former US Senator
4 George Mitchell?
5 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I do remember
6 George.
7 TODD BLANCHE: What do you remember about
8 him?
9 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I traveled with him.
10 We went to -- the most memorable affair I went to --
11 well, I was friendly with his wife. Start with that,
12 with Heather. And Heather was in New York, so I hung
13 out with her a few times. We had dinner and I was
14 just friendly, I would say separately with --
15 separately from her husband. I was friends with
16 Heather. I met Heather through her husband, but we
17 became friends.
18 TODD BLANCHE: You became friends with
19 Heather?
20 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Heather, yes.
21 TODD BLANCHE: Was Mr. Epstein friends
22 with, Mr. Mitchell?
23 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
24 TODD BLANCHE: Did they travel together
25 besides New York? Did they travel to the island orMAGNA9
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1 t
to New Mexico?
2 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't -- I don't
3 remember George ever at the island. But the most
4 memorable trip I do recall with Senator was to Italy.
5 TODD BLANCHE: Was to where?
6 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: To Italy.
7 TODD BLANCHE: Ah, okay.
8 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: We went to Rome.
9 TODD BLANCHE: As the four of you. So
10 Heather and Mr. Mitchell, and you and Mr. Epstein?
11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's my
12 recollection.
13 TODD BLANCHE: And what were you there
14 for?
15 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, the most
16 memorable aspect of that trip is we went to the
17 Vatican. It was extraordinary, the most
18 extraordinary thing was going to the archives and
19 holding Henry VIII's document to the Pope asking for
20 his divorce.
21 TODD BLANCHE: Do you know the former
22 president of Colombia, Andres Pastrana?
23 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
24 TODD BLANCHE: How do you know him?
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in a pub in Dublin.
2 TODD BLANCHE: And did he travel with
3 Mr. Epstein, that you know?
4 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't -- I don't
5 know if -- I don't know if he ever was ever on the
6 plane. I don't know if he ever -- I don't think he
7 ever came to the island. But, I went to places with
8 Andres Pastrana. One was to Colombia and Epstein
9 came to that, and the other was to Cuba and Epstein
10 and Andres Pastrana was -- I think was there.
11 TODD BLANCHE: And what were the purposes
12 of traveling to Colombia, then Cuba?
13 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I am a helicopter
14 pilot and Andres is a helicopter pilot. And we just
15 became friends and I flew a Blackhawk in Colombia.
16 TODD BLANCHE: And how about to Cuba?
17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My -- I have a friend
18 of mine who was the cigar distributor for Montecristo
19 maybe, I can't remember which cigar it was. And so
20 we went there, and he organized the trip and we met
21 Fidel Castro.
22 TODD BLANCHE: When was that,
23 approximately?
24 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Had to be -- it had to
25 be 2002, 2003.MAGNA9
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1 TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
2 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Something like that, I
3 think.
4 TODD BLANCHE: There's some more names
5 that we might talk about tomorrow with the same type
6 of questions, just -- but as far as a catchall,
7 there's been a tremendous amount of public
8 information about all kinds of names, including some
9 of the folks we talked about today and their
10 relationship with Mr. Epstein and or you.
11
For any of the folks that we've talked
12 about today, did you observe them doing anything
13 improper with Mr. Epstein, whether with masseuses or
14 with women who were -- or girls who were traveling or
15 at the residence that they were at or at the parties
16 that they were at?
17 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I did not ever, at any
18 time, see that.19 TODD BLANCHE: And for any of the names
20 we've talked about today, and then tomorrow we'll
21 talk about some more, but for today, do you recall
22 having any conversations with anybody else, where
23 they reported to you that they had seen something
24 that one of these individuals had done, whether
25 someone else that works with Mr. Epstein or somebody
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1 that observed something?
2 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: If anybody had ever
3 reported anything -- first of all, the answer to that
4 is no. And also,
I just want to be clear that had
5 anybody ever reported anything illegal or disgusting
6 like that, I would've immediately done something.
7 And I never heard it. I never saw it. And no one
8 ever, ever, ever complained to me or tears, nothing
9 like that.10 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. All right. So we
11 took a break when we were talking about Mr. Epstein
12 and his death. Oh, bless you. That's okay. Take
13 your time.
14 So Mr. Epstein and his death. So you were
15 not, obviously, at the MCC during that time, correct.
16 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Thank you.
17 DAVID MARKUS: Oh, thanks. I thought you
18 were giving it to him.
19 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I've got something
20 that blew up my nose.
21 TODD BLANCHE: So just take some water.
22 It's okay, no problem.
23 You were not at the MCC during that time,
24 correct?
25 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was not.
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1 TODD BLANCHE: So you're going to tell us
2 what you believe, but just to -- I just want to make
3 sure I understand, your basis for belief is kind of
4 what you've read and seen and your knowledge of
5 Mr. Epstein for the many years you knew them -- knew
6 him, right?
7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And actually there's a
8 third component.
9 TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
10 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The answer to that is,
11 yes.
12 TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
13
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And there's a third
14 component to that, which is having experienced now,
15 the mismanagement and inefficiencies and total
16 dereliction of duty at the Bureau of Prisons.17 TODD BLANCHE: From BOP. From the Bureau
18 of Prisons.
19 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
20 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Fair. Okay. So,
21 you know, I want to -- what I do want to be careful
22 about is -- you know, asking you to speculate,
23 because anybody can do that. And I don't think
24 that's fair to you or anybody else to ask you to give
25 us your kind of opinion.
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1 But, do you think that -- the third point
2 you say, which is kind of a failure by the BOP,
3 there's been a lot of -- there's an OIG report,
4 there's SDNY investigation about that. Do you --
so
5 you think he was -- he did not die by suicide, given
6 all the things we just talked about.
7 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do not believe he
8 died by suicide, no.
9 TODD BLANCHE: And do you believe that --
10 do you have any speculation or view of who killed
11 him?
12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I -- no, I don't.13 TODD BLANCHE: And I ask that because, if
14 you don't believe that there's any truth to the
15 allegations of blackmail or that he had kind of a
16 list, or that he had reasons to have people hate him,
17
why would somebody kill him in prison?
18 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: In prison, where I am,
19 they will kill you or they will pay -- somebody can
20 pay a prisoner to kill you for $25 worth of
21 commissary. That's about the going rate for a hit
22 with a lock today.23 TODD BLANCHE: So that goes to the third
24 reason, which is kind of the mismanagement.
25 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
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1 TODD BLANCHE: Or the shortfallings or
2 shortcomings of the Bureau of Prisons.
3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
4 TODD BLANCHE: Which is a little bit
5 different than my -- from my question is, which is,
6 do you think there was somebody on the outside of
7 prison, so putting aside, what could happen on the
8 inside on the outside of prison, who would -- who
9 wanted him dead so badly that he would've, or she
10 would've, you know, caused him to be killed on the
11 inside?
12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think that's -- I
13 don't see that. I think, is it possible? Of course
14 it's possible. But
I don't know of any reason why,
15 and I don't believe in the blackmail or in any of
16 this, I don't think Epstein had a hit on like that.
17 If it is indeed murder, I believe it was an internal
18 situation.19 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. So you're not -- you
20 don't have any reason firsthand knowledge or even
21 speculation, it sounds like, to think that he was --
22 if -- that he was killed to kind of silence him or to
23 keep him from going public about people he knew
24 about?
25 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't, no, because I
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1 think that is just part of the story that's been
2 created that started back in 2008, '09.
3 TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Yeah, I mean, that's
4 the point. Like, I don't want -- I don't think
5 there's value in talking -- you know, there's been a
6 lot of -- there's a lot of information about what
7 happened, you know, at the MCC and -- but what is
8 important to me is whether, you know, if -- is the
9 idea that he didn't die by suicide, that's one thing.
10 But if to the extent that folks believe that he was
11 murdered to keep him quiet or because he had
12 information on rich and powerful people, that's what
13 I -- do you have any reason to believe that that's
14 true?
15 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do not have any
16 reason to believe that. And I also think it's
17 ludicrous, because if that -- I also happen to think
18 if that is what they wanted, they would've had plenty
19 of opportunity when he wasn't in jail. And if they
20 were worried about blackmail or anything from him, he
21 would've been a very easy target.
22 TODD BLANCHE: In the time -- so we've
23 talked about a lot of time, all the way up through
24 2009, '10, and then your -- the time that after
25 Mr. Epstein was arrested,
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spoke with him?
2 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Maybe 2016, 2017,
3 maybe 2016 -- 2015, 2016, 2017 in that area, I
4 believe.5 TODD BLANCHE: And what -- when you're
6 thinking about that last time was that you had
7 talked -- been talking to him a lot, and then you
8 stopped, or was that a one-off time and it was
9 infrequent at that point?
10
GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I really wasn't in
11 communication. The only communications I had with
12 him was in -- with regards to the civil suits, the
13 civil suit that I found myself in, the defamation
14 suit I found myself in. I needed help, I needed
15 information, and I didn't have what I needed.
16 And so that was really what it was -- that
17 what drove it, was me trying to get myself out of
18 this situation, which I -- ultimately led to where I
19 am today.20 And so when -- when all that -- when
21 that -- I don't remember even if I stopped talking to
22 him before that, I think he was --
I thought he was
23 angry with me anyway. He didn't like what I did, and
24 he -- I wasn't interested in what he had to say to
25 me, and --
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TODD BLANCHE: What did you think he was
2 angry with you about?
3 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he was angry
4 that I had even said that I had referred to her being
5 a liar. [LC: ???] He said I should have not said anything but.
6 TODD BLANCHE: When the civil suits that
7 were ongoing before Mr. Epstein's death?
8 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes.
9 TODD BLANCHE: Did your lawyers coordinate
10 with his lawyers, like in discovery and things like
11 that or anything?
12 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think we
13 coordinated in -- I don't -- I'm not sure.
14 TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
15 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't want to
16 misspeak. I don't -- I -- there was some degree of
17 communication for sure. I just don't know the degree
18 that that took place. So definitely -- I mean, I was
19 definitely hoping for him to be more helpful. And I
20 was definitely, coordinating is not a good word,
21 because that sounds like I was trying to make --
22 align myself.
23 That's not where we were going here, but I
24 was definitely trying to get help. As in documents
25 or information that I could use to defend myself.MAGNA9
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1 That's a hundred percent true. And the degree to
2 which that took place, I'm not -- I don't recall.
3 There was definitely some of that, though. I don't
4 want to mislead you.
5 TODD BLANCHE: And we touched on this
6 earlier, but I just want to -- I don't think we
7 really ran it to ground maybe as much as we could
8 like. Going up through that time, you know,
so in
9 the '16, '17, '18, up until the time he's arrested,
10 had your view or your understanding of what had
11 happened changed?
12 Meaning did you believe that in the late
13 '90s or early 2000s when he started, you know,
14 behaving much differently. Did you believe what you
15 were hearing about him at that point?
16 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: My views, I didn't
17 like the people he was with anyway. So I don't find
18 -- how do I say this? I don't like -- I like people
19 who my age or older, and I don't find the society of,
20 or the companionship of younger people who are young
21 people, I suppose, is really that enjoyable. So I
22 don't like the company that he chose to be with, and
23 so I just was -- I find it boring and fundamentally
24 uninteresting. That's probably the nicest way I can
25 say it.MAGNA9
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1 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. Okay. So I think
2 what we should do is just spend a few minutes talking
3 about tomorrow. Everything was great today. I think
4 that we -- it was very helpful and I appreciate you
5 trying to be as complete as you can.
6 I think tomorrow -- you've said a few
7 things today about materials that you brought. When
8 we're done, we will give you a few minutes with Mr.
9 Markus to -- if there's things that you want to show
10 him that you think we should see.
11 Like I said, I'm not asking you to
12 corroborate anything. If I was asking you to
13 corroborate something, I would tell you, but if
14 there's something you think that you don't think that
15 the government has seen or you think that is
16 important for me to see, let Mr. Markus know and he
17 can share it with me.
18 Tomorrow we'll certainly have some
19 follow-on questions when we all think about tonight.
20 And I think you will too. You know, we can all think
21 about stuff we've talked about. We covered a lot of
22 different areas. We are -- I do want to talk about
23 more about you.
24 So by design today we wanted to focus on
25 Mr. Epstein and talk about, you know, kind of, well,
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1 everything under the sun that we've gone through
2 today. I do think it's important when we all
3 evaluate what you've said today, and kind of your
4 story to understand, to also understand your -- why
5 you're here, right?
6
So you were indicted, you were charged,
7 you went to trial. And I want to do that in a way
8 that gives you an opportunity to say -- to kind of
9 say your piece or to say what you haven't said
10 before.11 But also understanding that there was
12 people who took the witness stand and swore to tell
13 the truth and testified about you, and what you did,
14 and what they think you saw and what they heard you
15 say.
16 And I'm not -- I said to Mr. Markus, I'm
17 not trying to create a kind of a she said, she said
18 situation or he said, she said situation. But I do
19 want to hear from you about your conduct, because
20 it's important, I think, for when we evaluate what
21 you say and how you say it and your recollection of
22 things to also to talk about that.
23 So we're going to -- we'll do that
24 tomorrow. I want to talk about, you know, the
25 circumstances leading up to your arrest. There's a
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1 lot of, I think, misinformation or there's a lot of
2 information out there that -- I don't know whether
3 there's misinformation, but about the time from, you
4 know, 2019 up until the time that you were -- that
5 you were arrested.
6 And then, like I said, that'll take us
7 through lunch tomorrow and then we'll be done. I'm
8 not -- I don't have a plan. I didn't know that I was
9 coming here until this week, okay? So I'm not --
10 there isn't like a -- we don't have like a schedule
11 of what happens next or what happens.
12 But the -- but that's not a negative
13 thing. I'm just saying that that's -- so you
14 shouldn't take the lack of a next step as anything
15 other than, we don't have a next step yet, so.
16 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: May I say something?
17 TODD BLANCHE: Of course, yes.
18 G
HISLAINE MAXWELL: I just would like to
19 put out there that I also focused on how I think the
20 president got swept into some of this unnecessarily,
21 by the way. And I'm not a conspiracy theorist, and I
22 certainly don't subscribe to all the -- all of
23 everything that I see.
24 But I do believe that there is animus in
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1
of the president to harm him, that I find deeply
2 offensive. And whilst I can't obviously say
3 definitively that that is what it is, I would like to
4 show you what I see so that you can evaluate it and
5 do with that as you see fit if it needs to be
6 addressed. I've seen it, it struck me, and I would
7 like to give it to you.
8 TODD BLANCHE: Sure.
9 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: For what it's worth.
10 TODD BLANCHE: Okay.
11 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Does that seem
12 something that I can --
13 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, that's fine. Yeah.
14 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Of course. I don't
15 like that.
16 TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. Okay. That's fine.
17 That's great. Okay, so why don't we stop for today.
18 I'll give you a little bit of time to chat and then,
19 see you in the morning.
20 SPENCER HORN: This will conclude the
21 recorded proffer interview for Thursday, July 24th.
22 We will continue tomorrow, Friday, July 25th. The
23 time is 3:34.
24 (Interview concluded at 3:34 p.m.)
25
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1 CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIPTION
2 I, Cathy M. Ayotte, do hereby certify
3 that the provided audio recording media was
4 transcribed by me or reduced to typewriting under my
5 supervision, that said transcript is a true
6 transcription of the audio recording; that I am
7 neither counsel for, related to, nor employed by any
8 of the parties to the action involved in these
9 proceedings; and, further, that I am not a relative
10 or employee of any attorney or counsel employed by
11 the parties thereto, nor financially or otherwise
12 interested in the outcome of the action.
13
14 __________________________________________
CATHY M. AYOTTE, Official Transcriptionist