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Nobody's Girl: Virginia Giuffre's Reckoning for Epstein, Maxwell, & the Billionaire Elite
The Lincoln Project
Oct 28, 2025

The Lincoln Project Podcast
#RELEASETHEFILES
Virginia Roberts Giuffre’s memoir NOBODY’S GIRL: A Memoir of Surviving Abuse and Fighting for Justice -- is more than a book — it’s a final act of truth-telling from a woman who refused to be silenced. In this episode, Rick Wilson honors her story by sitting down with co-author Amy Wallace and Virginia's brother, Sky Roberts, and his wife, Amanda, to examine how Virginia's courage blew the lid off of Epstein’s network of abuse, power, and complicity. Through her own words, Virginia's voice continues to demand accountability, advocate for survivors, and expose the rot behind the façade of wealth and privilege. Justice for victims only happens when someone refuses to stay silent, and that someone was Virginia. This special episode breaks down what Virginia's story teaches us about resilience, systemic failure, and the ongoing fight for a world where no one else becomes yet another survivor. #RELEASETHEFILES



Transcript

Hey folks, it's Rick Wilson. Welcome back to the Lincoln Project podcast.
We're happy to have you with us as always. Although I will say in advance, this week is going to be a difficult conversation for many people. And
as all of you know, the nation has been riveted by the story of Jeffrey Epstein and Gelain Maxwell and the horrific
damage they caused to so many young women in the last decades. Epste is no
longer among us. Galain Maxwell is a is is right now widely speculated to be up for a pardon. Um, which I think is with
the reason that I am so delighted today um to to welcome Amy Wallace to the
show. She's the co-author along with the family members of Virginia Jafrey, one
of the um most horrifically abused victims of Jeffrey Epstein and Glenn
Maxwell. Um and her postumous story of that life uh trapped in Maxwell's world
uh is out now. It's nobody's girl. And um I read through it last night and I I
have to say it is riveting. It is dark. It is tragic.
and and and and I I'm I'm thankful, Amy, that you're on the show today because I don't know I can do it justice in the
way that you've lived this story. Um, so what I'd like to do is start with asking you to tell us the story of Nobody's
Girl. Tell us the story of Virginia Jupy's life, which is which is hard and and tragic from the very start with
abuse from her father. and it goes on to a sadly shortened life at the hands of
Donald Trump, Jeffrey Epste, and other people who in various ways abused her. Um, and and and finally, I want you to
tell us the story of how she had the courage to start telling the truth about what had happened to her. So, Amy, thank
you so much for coming on the show, and I'll let you take it from there. Well, thank you so much for having me and uh for shining light on this
important story. I wish Virginia was here to be speaking to you herself. Um,
you know, as you note, she died in April at 41, way too young. Um,
I think the best place to start, obviously, the book is 400 pages long, and we could talk for seven seven hours
about the chronology of her life, but the best place to start perhaps is is the purpose, uh, the reason that she
wrote the book. Um, her her main reason was to try to help other
victims of sexual abuse of of any kind, not just Epstein and Maxwell, um, but
but any person that's been coerced into sex against their will, men or women. And she wanted to make those people feel
less alone, which sounds like a like a small thing, but it's a huge thing. She wanted to say,
you know, I I see you. I I am you. I
understand the shame you feel. I understand the daily struggle of dealing with that kind of trauma. It never
leaves you. And and she says this in the book very eloquently, if I can help one person feel less alone, then this book
is a success. So that was the frame within which we wrote. Uh that meant
telling as you say the story of her early childhood which was very happy.
Um, and I think that's important because she got a lot of resilience, I think, out of those early years of feeling
loved and then abuse within her home. Um, which her father has denied. Uh, we put
that in the book, but her but her brothers and her mother believe that it happened and we talked
to all of them. Um, and then being abused by others before she even meets
Gillen Maxwell at the Mara Lago Spa where Virginia is working as a $9 an
hour towel girl, 16 years old, you know, summer job like you would hope your
teenagers would get. Um, she loved it there. It was beautiful. She felt honored to work there. Her father worked
there. And yes, because her father worked there, her father introduced her directly to Donald Trump. So, she had
personal interaction with Donald Trump. To be clear, the book does not implicate Donald Trump. Virginia was was was in
the world of of Epstein and Maxwell for a little over two years. And in that time, again, we can't attest to any
other time that Epste and Maxwell were abusing girls. But, but during that time, Virginia did not see our current
president uh abusing anyone of any age. Um but but but it was
important then again it's not just a catalog of horrors this book it is very
tough to read at times and we we tried to use some some devices within the book
to help people get through that literally Virginia turns to the reader at different times and says look
yeah like hello I know this is so much believe me I live with it every day please keep going and not just please
keep going okay so back to the horror reel she's please keep going and let me show you where I am in my life now. You
get a break. You get you get breaks throughout the book. Um in that early that first half of the book, there is
some really tough road and readers are going to find it. Take take great breaks yourself as you read. But then it it is
a portrait of a woman in full. It is a portrait of a person who was abused terribly in her young life who then
bravely and incredibly escapes from those from that that abuse uh which was
hard to do and we can talk about why that was hard to do and then she becomes a a mother, a wife, she has happiness in
her life. That's one of her biggest triumphs is that she was able to to keep an open heart after people betrayed her
over and over again. and then she goes on to become an advocate for all of us. So, it's it's the arc of that whole
life. Um, and I I I hope readers feel that they really get to know her in in
all of her highs and lows as they read the book. So, and I do think that is something
about this that is is truly inspiring is that regardless of her untimely short
end, she managed to move from a world that was incredibly dark and crazy
and and while it doesn't leave her in this story, she she's able to segment it
enough to go out and have a a rich life. I want to start with that story of the
darkness a little bit because she meets Galain Maxwell at the Mara Lago spa and at this point we know from Galain
Maxwell's trial that she was actively recruiting young girls around Palm Beach
for Jeffrey Epste and had other people in her circle recruiting young girls for Jeffrey Epstein. She sees Virginia, 16
years old. Talk to us about how she brought Jupy into and Trump later says
he stole her from him. Yeah, he took people and because he took people I said don't do it anymore you know they work
for me and he took uh beyond that he took some others and
once he did that that was the end of him I didn't like when they steal people I don't like it
Mr. President Epste has a certain reputation obviously. Just curious, were
some of the workers that were taken from you? Were some of them young women? Were some of them
Were some of them young women? Well, I don't want to say, but uh everyone knows
the people that were taken and uh it was the concept of taking people that work
for me is bad. But uh that story has been pretty well out there. And the answer is yes, they were.
Yes, they were. Yeah. What do they do in the spa? Jobs in the spa. Yeah. People that work in the spa. I
have a great spa. One of the best spas in the world at Mara Lago. And people were taken out of the spa. Hired by him.
In other words, gone. And uh other people would come and complain, "This
guy is taking people from the spa." I didn't know that. And then when I heard about it, I told him, I said, "Listen,
we don't want you taking our people." Whether it was spa or not spa, I don't want them taking people. and he was
fine. And then not too long after that, he did it again and I said, "Out of here."
Mr. President, did one of those stolen um you know, persons that include
Virginia uh I don't know. I think she worked at
the spa. I think so. I think that was one of the people. Yeah, he he stole her.
That That's Trump sort of treating her as property, but we'll leave that aside for now. As an object. Yes.
As a as a thing. Yes. As a thing. Yes. How was it? What was the story of
Maxwell? What was Maxwell's pitch? How did she bring Virginia into Epstein's world? And what happened then?
Well, in some ways, the book reveals sort of the predator's playbook. And I'll I'll show you what I mean by
telling this sort of what what I'm trying to get to. I didn't phrase it best, but I I want to
sort of like show people what that methodology they were using was.
Well, the the the sort of genesis story here in terms of how Gillen entrapped uh
Virginia into Jeffrey Epstein and Maxwell's world is she and her driver,
Gileen's driver, are driving through the driveway, I think, of of Maraago Spa. Um, Epstein at that point,
I believe, was a member. um they were frequenters of the of the club. Um and
she spots Virginia walking along towards her work. She's she's going to work.
She's young. She's very very pretty. Uh she looks very young as you'll see in
pictures. There are pictures in the book that remind you that she she was 16 and
she looked perhaps younger. She had a childlike affect in that in those photographs.
She did. So Virginia walks into work and gets settled and it's a quiet moment. So
she has just been working at the spa. I we're not exactly sure of the timing. Mara Lago has not revealed the the
employment records, but she's been working there a couple weeks and she's been very inspired by what she sees
there because it's beautiful. It's gilded. It's it smells good. It's people come out of that place feeling good. And
and Virginia at 16 looking for what her life can be even after so much abuse. she's already suffered. Thinks maybe I
maybe I could be a masseuse and work in a place like this. That would be amazing. So, she has taken out of the library a book about anatomy. She's
trying to start learning, but she's never given or seen or received a massage in her life.
And Glenn walks in uh she she says to Glenn says to her driver, "Stop the
car." We know this from from depositions, right? And he stops the car and villain comes
striding in after. Okay. So, what does Galen look like at that point? She's tall. She's posh, elegant,
dark, elegant, amazing, you know, sophisticated accent,
carrying a handbag that Virginia estimates worth is worth more than her father's truck. And she walks right up
to the front desk and says to Virginia, "Oh my goodness, you you're reading a book about anatomy. Are are you a
masseuse?" And Virginia very humbly says, "Oh, well, no, I'm no, I've never
I don't know anything about it." Well, would you like to learn? I know a very wealthy man, a brilliant man who it is
is looking for a new masseuse, and he would love to train you. Come today. Come. Come. Absolutely. This afternoon
once you got off work. Virginia asks her father for permission to go. Her father actually ends up driving her to
Epstein's house behind the hedges, you know, behind the gate at in Palm Springs. At that point, it was painted
painted pink and we tell you the reason why. Epstein explains it. I don't know if your readers will be too offended for
why, but they should. No, go ahead. Pink is for That's what he always said. Okay. So, it's painted a hot pink
and she walks in. Glenn greets them and takes her right up the stairs to the
massage room where there's a naked man lying there. It's Jeffrey Epstein. And right that very day, that first day when
she meets Glenn Maxwell, Glenn Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein sexually abuse her
and rape her. Boom. Not the Ben's first day on the job.
No. And Virginia explains beautifully, eloquently,
the heartbreak of that for her because she thinks she's
going into this, you know, situation she doesn't know much about. She's going to do her best, but it's going to better
her life. And instantly it says to her, "All anyone wants from you is sex, and
that's your only worth." And it was both of them in her testimony.
It was not always both of them. I I misspe. But but there has become this narrative about Glenn Maxwell. I don't
know where it comes from given that she's a convicted sex trafficker. Correct. Okay. She's convicted in a court of law.
Four brave women got up and talked about what she did to them. Virginia was not one of them. I know. But
she she's convicted. And somehow over the past several months, it's become as if she was just this this poor madam who
who just kept the date book and wrote things down. And yes, she procured, but she was just caught up in this nasty.
She was one more victim of Jeffrey Epste. One more victim. Oh, it's so terrible that the only person who's serving time
is a woman. That's so unfair. Okay, this woman was a sexual predator herself.
Yes, she was a predator. She procured girls. We all know that,
which is evil. And then she she sexually abused them herself. She said, "Come
over here right now and sexually service me." She hurt them during sex. Virginia describes a particularly ghastly moment
where Galen is mad at her for something. So, she uses, you know, sex toys
hurt Virginia sexually and damage that later Virginia dealt with that physical
damage for the rest of her life. So, this woman is evil,
a monster. And and we haven't even we haven't even talked about the fact that she used her
gender to lure these girls in into the web. And none of these girls, no matter how desperate, would have followed a man
in his 50s into his house because he said, "Would you give me a massage?" Right? Never
would a posh a posh woman with beautiful RP pronunciation and a beautiful British accent and a and
and all the the signifiers of wealth and taste and style. Um and you know
Yes, they did. And and and you rais I think a very key point that underlies this entire story which is class.
Sure. You know, she comes in, she's posh. Posh is the British term for it. She's a
wealthy woman and Virginia is a poor girl and most Virginia is a girl from the wrong side
of 95. That's right. She's from the west side of 95. So were many of the girls. They were in
fact they were chosen expressly because of that that they would be more desperate financially. Also they had
both Maxwell and Epstein but particularly Maxwell because she was the one out there standing in front of high schools trying to recruit. She had a
nose for who had already been hurt because those people, those young girls
were more susceptible to the manipulation, the psychological manipulation that we can talk about that
again is part of the predators playbook that that makes them easier to dominate,
for lack of a better word. Gileain Maxwell approached me at the spa area. She was like this really bright
Mary Poppins kind of a a figure and she said, "Oh, you're reading a book on
massage therapy." And you know, we started talking. She goes, "Oh, you know what? I know
this guy. There's an opportunity actually. If you want to become a real massage therapist, we can get you
trained. You can come for the interview tonight. And if he likes you, then you'll be a real masseuse. and you'll
get to see the world and you'll get paid $200 per massage and it like no alarm
bells went off because it was this proper English lady who just looked so nice.
Epstein's victims have talked about how they weren't sure who this guy was, but because Galen seemed so proper, surely
it's got to be legit. Her posh upbringing and her accent gave this
veneer of respectability. coming from a woman. I think that was incredibly
manipulative and I think it was absolutely critical in Epstein's operation.
My dad brought me over and he shakes hand with Gilan who promises that she'll take good care of me and she will have
someone drive me home.
She led me up a staircase and we made a right into Jeffrey's room and Jeffrey
laying naked on the massage table. Jeffrey lifts his head up, looks at
Gilen. Gilen looks at him and I call it the Cheshshire cat grin because his face
just went like this and it was like a nod of approval. Gilang got me quickly into like, "Here's
the lotions. Here's the oils. We're going to each take half of his body so you can follow my instructions." It just
looked like a legitimate massage. Then they also started asking me questions about my life. I really,
really wanted this job. So, I opened up to them. I said, "Look, this is an
opportunity of a lifetime for me. I've been on the streets. I've been abused."
And um that's the worst thing that I could have done cuz I just let them know
that I'm vulnerable and um I'm their perfect type. I I think
Virginia's story here that that the exemplar of what happened to her
really is something that I I think it's a very valuable lesson in this book for other people to watch for that pattern
of behavior from abusers to watch for that pattern of behavior from these kind of predators because she was
she was her unique self but in many ways she was a profile that they had in their heads on how to get to a girl like her
how to manipulate a girl like her and and Virginia
was one of many many girls in Palm Beach. I mean the Julie the Julie Browns reporting on this and that we're putting
on the case only four may have come out to testify but there were dozens and dozens of young women who were who were
caught up in this Epstein Maxwell abuse trafficking. I I think there were probably thousands
of women. Um, but in the Palm Beach investigation, that initial bungled
ridiculous investigation of Epstein where he's given a sweetheart deal where, remember, he is he is
incarcerated and I'll put that in quotes, but he is allowed to leave during the day, go to an office, an
office that he set up, um, and abuse with a massage table. Yes, with a massage table.
Um, that that early investigation, the the the case files are public and anyone can read them. It's girl after girl
after girl. I think they had they found 38 girls some of whom you all teenagers
all of them and many of them uh from as you say the wrong side of the
tracks. Um but but you know the question that keeps coming up among reasonable
people and I've heard it a hundred times in the past week you know well if it was so
terrible why didn't they just leave? Why why did they go back? Why did these girls go back? Why why didn't Virginia
just walk out of the of front door of the Manhattan townhouse and and just wander into Manhattan and and escape?
There are several answers to that, but I think they're important to understand. One, they were threatened by Debstein
and Maxwell that if they spoke out, they would be hurt or worse. Um, Virginia
specifically describes early on in knowing them that Epstein calls her into
his office and he throws a picture on the table, a photograph, a grainy photograph of her younger brother Sky
who people will probably know who that is because he and his wife Amanda have been
out talking about Virginia's legacy and the book all for the past several weeks.
They're they're amazing people. So he's in middle school and V he and
and Epstein says, "We know where he goes to school. Here's a picture of him with his little backpack on. You ever turn on
us, we hurt him." Okay. So threat obvious. Yeah.
But beyond that, there was this sickening u psychic
mental jujitsu again that predators use on their victims. And they say yes you know they
while degrading them sexually psychologically physically
right they are also saying we
see something in you you're special you're you're we can help you have a better life. I'd been on the streets and
I thought you know well maybe this is the lesser of two evils. I had the
promise of an education and maybe this is just how the world works. If abuse is
so prevalent in my life, maybe that's just what it is. That's just life.
For individuals who've been sexually abused as a child, this confirms that
they don't have any meaning beyond giving pleasure to somebody else. Of course, you'd expect them to go back,
especially if there is even a glimmer of hope that maybe something good will come
out of this because it's a really devastating feeling to be nothing. And
again the class issue comes in here. We are wealthy and our opinion of you thus
has more value than your opinion of yourself. And we we will help you with
that. We'll help you. So there's this weird almost parental
element even though there's sex involved which makes it even more sick and
depraved. Yeah. But it but but again parents who are who are hearing me now
I'm a parent and you think well that I mean it happened to her but it would never happen to my kids.
Kids want affirmation. They need it. And
predators are very good at this kind of thing at telling them what they need to hear. Making them feel normal. Making
them feel accepted. Making them feel pretty. Making them feel smart. whatever it is that that particular kid, male or
female, needs. And those people are out there and they did not all die when
Jeffrey Epstein died in his prison cell. So, this is a cultural issue. This isn't
just a Maxwell Epstein, these horrible monsters. This isn't Jeffrey Dmer just
died and it was a one-off cannibal. These people are representative of something in the culture and that's
something that we all need to be looking at. And I want to I want to talk about one more thing and then move
on to like this place they fit in this sort of very twisted part of our culture. Um
at one point and she's still I guess she's probably 17 or so at this point.
They ask her to have a baby for them. talk to us about that part of the story because I I did not know that before and
I found that so deeply disturbing that it it's really stuck with me.
Well, the New York Times has actually done some great uh reporting on this idea, not so much that that story, which
I'll get to in a moment, but the idea that that Jeffrey Epstein wanted to seed
his DNA into the human race. I I had read that. I did not know about Virginia. So, how do you do that? You
have you have you some babies, but you don't want to raise any babies. You don't really like babies.
You want to propagate another set of people that have your DNA. That
was that was how high an opinion he had of himself. Never finished college. Remember, not that you
have to go to college to be a valuable person, but this guy surrounded himself with rich and powerful people, talked a
big game, had a huge ego. So, I my sense is from reading other
reporting that Virginia was not the only one that he they asked this of. Um, but
Virginia had a particular experience of this. She's actually, I believe, she's
either right at the end of being 18 or about to be 19. Uh because it's right
before within weeks they send her off to Thailand, which we can get to. But they
they say to her, they sit her down on the dock, you know, at on the private island after a day at the beach, and
they Ebstein is particularly fond, which he
was not usually, and he I think he puts his hand on her back and he says, "I've so appreciate how you have, you know,
been there for us and and helped all my friends think you're you're wonderful." Meaning the people she'd been trafficked
to. Um, they had told her all along, "We think you'd be a great mother." And part
of the reason for that was this tucking in ritual where she would tuck Jeffrey in every night at his request. So, there
had been this this sort of backbeat of you would make a wonderful mother someday. And they and they asked her,
Gillan is there as well. We would like you to have our baby. I'm not sure how
how Maxwell's DNA would be involved. I think it was going to be Virginia's DNA and Jeffrey's DNA. She would carry the
baby and Glenn's in the background explaining all the financial terms. You know, we'll we'll give you a monthly stipen. You can live wherever you want,
but it'll be a lot of money, but you'll sign the rights to that child over to us.
So, it's it's modern Handmaid's Tale. It's it's it's not fiction. It's this is
happening in the world that we live in. And so that
in addition to a very savage rape that precedes that that is described in the book.
Yes. Um those are the two final straws for Virginia. And and as she writes
asking me to have a baby for them. What if that baby was female?
Would they would I raise that child up for them to abuse? Yeah. And in a very classic way for Virginia,
who was so warm-hearted and generous, more generous to others than to herself
at times. Mhm. She had an easier time protecting that hypothetical baby than she did herself.
And she then at that point realizes, I have to get out of here somehow or I'm
gonna die here. And what she says to them is she she knows better to than to
say no to them, right? So she says, "Absolutely, but
beforehand, remember how all along since that first day you procured me, you said you were going to train me actually to
be a masseuse and have a profession. I would love to do that before I carry this child for you."
And she thinks they're going to send her to, you know, a massage school in Florida or New York or one of the
places. and they say, "Okay, we're going to send you to Thailand." Um, there's a massage school there. It's actually a a well has a very good
reputation. I've looked into it. It's it's a real massage school. Okay. But they also have a girl that they want her to procure
in Thailand for them. That's why they're sending her to Thailand. And she and she gets to Thailand. She's
alone and she starts going to the school and she meets uh the man she will ultimately
marry. He's Australian and she confides to him very early on in their relationship
what's happening and how she's afraid. She thinks she's going to die in this in
this horrible system that she's been absorbed into. And he says, "You don't have to live like that. Come back to Australia with me." And that's how she
gets out. So she was trafficked repeatedly to a
number of high-powered individuals. um raped repeatedly on the plane, on the
island, in Palm Beach, in Santa and in the at the at the the
the Yes. So I want to ask this question
as this is happening to her. Is she starting to understand that there is a
global network of these people that Epstein is somehow either connected to
or or empowering or in or or or engaged with?
Did does is she sophisticated enough to understand this is the prime minister of X? This is I mean she she saying Prince
Andrew is one thing but the a lot of these other people were very influential, very powerful folks. Um
did she start to did that did that combination of like awareness and fear rise as this was happening and and how
does she talk how does she talk herself through that that risk that she must be
feeling at that point? Well, this is an interesting area. Um there were some men who were in the
houses all the time. So she knew who they were. She knew their names. Um you
know, not only was she trafficked to them within those houses, but then she was also sitting on couches near them and and they were often the girls were
sort of this adornment, this garnish that would be sitting on, you know, while the the men gathered, you know,
they would just be sitting there to for their amusement um to look at them. Um so there are men that she absolutely
knew to speak to. she knew their names. But but for her and I I know for others
who were in that trapped in that world, there were other situations where you were not politely introduced to the man
that you were going to service by force.
You were sent into a darkened massage room and there's a naked man in there and you're just supposed to service him and you you don't know who that is. So
is it how did her lawyers painstakingly figure out who she was trafficked to
other than the men she absolutely knew, right? And and that process is is pretty
meticulous and admirable on their part. They created different buckets of
photographs. Well-known men that you and I would just recognize as, "Oh, I know that guy." um well-known men who were in
Epstein's orbit during the time that Virginia was there. People who were in Epstein's orbit when
she was not there after she was long gone. And so if she picked those people, she was clearly an error. There's no way
she could have known them. They put all these photographs down on the table. They mix them up.
They told me she never made a mistake. She never picked from the wrong bucket.
Right. So, and and and what she always said to me, you know, there's there has been carping about her memory. And again,
this is the classic playbook of people who try to denigrate accusers. You know, they're they
should remember the color of his shoes. Therefore, she's lying about everything. She's she's a and a liar. She's
trying to get paid and and how could she have remembered? And she acknowledges, you know, that
sometimes she she took Xanax to try to endure this. So, there's no way she could remember. She acknowledges all
those things in the book. Um, but what she always said to me was, "I may not
remember exact dates, times, days of the week, but when there is a man on top of
you raping you and his face is 6 in from your own, you remember that face."
Yeah. So, a she goes to Thailand, she meets
the man that she will eventually marry. Tell us about the separation from the
Maxwell Epstein axis that happened. How does she how does she broach that with
them? Tell us that story because I think it's I think it's this is where she has to start showing a level of strength and
overcome the intimidation of these people. Um even if it's 5,000 miles away.
Yeah. Well, she she meets the man she will marry. They actually get married in
Thailand, although they h they have to get married again in Australia when they finally get there to make it official.
Um, and uh they they get married in Thailand and and her husband says, "I
think it's important for us, but most importantly for you that you call them
and you tell them it's over, right? For your psychic wellness."
Sure. Um, so she calls and reaches Jeffrey. Okay. Um, and she says, "I've fallen in
love. I've gotten married. I'm never coming back." And he says, "Have a nice
life." And he hangs up. So then begins, and this is where, for
readers who are like, "Oh gosh, can I get through this book?" This is where the book takes
a sort of amazingly beautiful turn where she gets to Australia.
She's still carrying all of the trauma and that's going to haunt her for the rest of her life. And we she writes
about that, but she's absorbed into her husband's family. He's from an Italian
family. They're very warm and like to eat feed you and they're full of love.
Each of his parents uh parent her in different ways. They teach her how to
load a dishwasher. They teach her how to make coffee. She doesn't she doesn't know how to do anything really, right? She's been in a in a dream world
basically or a nightmare world or a nightmare a nightmare world, right? Um and she and she slowly starts to try
to heal. Um and she's been told, this is
explained in the book, that she will probably never be able to have kids in part because of some of the damage that was done to her sexually. Um, but she
gets pregnant and she and they end up having two boys back to back. Um, and
it's this unbelievably happy time for her. Um, and then finally they have a
third child and that child is a daughter. And that is a key moment for
her because she realizes, oh, I now have a a girl and that girl is going to grow
up to be a teenager and that girl is going to grow up to be a woman and she's going to move out into this world of
ours. And this world is screwed up towards women. It fetishizes
teens or younger as look at a fashion magazine. That's the body everybody's supposed to have. You know, it looks
like a teenager. Um, but beyond that sort of cultural overlay, there are evil
people out there who could hurt my daughter and I need to do something about it. I need to stand up. She So,
she's had this idyllic several years where she has a different last name. She's in a a a far-off country. Epstein
and Glenn are leaving her alone. She's hoping they don't even really know where she is, although they track her down
later. But at that point, she's like trying to rebuild a life. She's still waking up in the middle of the night with night sweats like with the images
of these men raping her in her mind, but she has a a a like a cocoon of safety
and she's raising babies. And that makes her feel um you know there's that thing
where where as a parent when you when you get to do the things for your kids
that you never were done for you. It's like this sort of special healing for yourself. It's almost as if you're
you're doing it for for yourself. And she's having those experiences. Um but
then with the birth of her daughter, uh she talks to her husband about it. She said, "I need to stand up." And at that
point, she goes public with her allegation. She's the first victim of
Epstein and Maxwell to put their name on on her complaint. And I'm not judging
anyone else who didn't do that. It was an enormous risk for her. Um people are allowed to their privacy, but Virginia
was the first person to go public. Right. So they did track her down and once she
is once she has put her name to this complaint, talk to us about what they tried to do at that point and what and
and where the story starts to take a a darker turn for her uh mental health, I
think, and and and her family life. Well, they track her down actually
before she's gone public. They track her down when the Palm Beach uh Florida
investigators are doing an incredible job of finding I think it was 38 young
girls um who who they just all told the same story, you know, like this is how I
was procured. This is what happened in the room. This is what he did then. This is what she did then. They I mean the
echoes and you can read those files. They're easy to find. So, so they call her at this this point
because they know that she knows a lot because she wasn't just a one or two visit person to the Palm Beach house,
which many girls were. She lived with them. She traveled to Morocco. She traveled to Paris. She she traveled
alone with Epstein sometimes. She tra she went to the next conference in in
Carmel with him. there. You know, she she was a in a lot of places with them
and saw who they hung out with. So, she's a particular danger to them. So, they back to back Gillin and and Jeffrey
call Virginia track her down. She's sitting with a baby in her arms. She's pregnant
with her second child and say, "Well, we're just wondering, are you talking to the investigators?"
And she's like, "No, no, no, no, no. I don't want anything to do with this and please just leave me alone. Please,
just let me have a life. At that point, she hasn't had her third child, her daughter, okay?
She's just she's just like but but terrified. They know where she is
and they know that she's dangerous to them. Um so so yes, I mean I guess the chapter
that that begins, she then moves into a full-on advocacy role with the birth of
her daughter. Um but then the next set of horrors
arrives. This is not physical or sexual degradation. This is intimidation,
death threats, right? Breaking people breaking at her house, you know, being stalked by paparazzi,
which people can argue is her own fault because she became she came forward. But just imagine what it's like to live in
that in that existence with small children with with people who you love and and
they're taking pictures of your kids as you walk them into their doctor's appointments. So, that was all happening. um men who
she had named in public depositions that have now become public. There are many of them. I've read them
all. Right. Names are there and some of those people have been in touch of course and said
of course to with her and said in essence take our names out of your mouth
right or else. So, and a couple of them who have backgrounds that are were
where you could readily believe they would have the capacity to deliver on the or else. Yes. In two ways. One,
yes. Murdering her. Yes. Killing her. Two, and and and that I'm not exaggerating.
No, I I'm not either. I know one of the I know who one of the people is and and that person could deliver very bad
business. Very bad business. And he'd do it in five minutes in a heartbeat. So, there's that. And then there's also
we will keep you in depositions and courtrooms for the rest of your life. We don't care if we have a actual case.
They didn't say all this. This is me opining. But we have the means
to drag you through the worst things that happened to you.
Oh yeah. A lifetime. And also that will involve we want your medical records. We
want your the you know you get into you you tangle with us. we will be asking you about everything that's ever
happened to you in your life over and over and over and over again.

[admin]

Part 2 of 2

And and
there's a scene in the book where her husband says to her, you know, how you know soldiers go off to war and they
come back and they are carrying PTSD, but at least they're done with the
battle and then they have to they can hopefully try to begin to heal. you
never get off the battlefield. So, how are you supposed to ever heal
and and I I think that's I that's not just Virginia's experience. That's been
the experience of every survivor of Jeffrey Epstein and and Maxwell and
arguably a lot of other survivors of sexual abuse. He said this is how they are worn down and treated. And I again I
wrote an op-ed in the New York Times, I guess. It's been a week ago talking
about this very thing. That's something we need to look at. Why are we putting so much emphasis on and putting it
always on the women or the young men, whoever it is, who are alleging, yes,
they should come forward. Yes, people are innocent till proven guilty, but why don't we ever aim our spotlight and our
relentlessness at the people accused? And I think that really speaks to a lot
of of the the the scandal of this cover up of the Epstein materials that the
federal government has because we are going to see a a transition very soon
now to a lot of the people that are defending this president. They're going to say, "Oh, these girls are all crazy
They're all grifters. They're all trying to make money off this. They're all, you know, they're all trying to to
to to cash in on this. And Virginia's story is richly told in
this book, but there are so many other victims who are telling their own
uniquely painful tales of this of this abuse by these two monsters. Um, and I
think it I think it I mean, I'm so glad that you guys have written this book because it is a very human story. It is
a very real, personal story. Um I I want to it's not it's it's also not a rare
story. Sadly sadly it is not. Sadly not. Sadly not. I I want to come to the next phase of this
because this was a a trauma Virginia carried until the end of her life.
Talk to us about the sort of final phase. um you know why the family had to
leave Colorado or leave Australia, the the incident in Colorado and and her
eventual uh taking of her own life because that is the tragic kota to this entire uh
story. Okay, I'm going to launch into that, but first I'm going to just say the Epstein
files. Donald Trump campaigned
Oh, yes. on the plank that he was going to release them. Mhm. The list of clients that went to the
island has not been made public. Yeah. It's it's very interesting, isn't
it? Probably will be. By the way, probably. So, if you're able to, you'll be Yeah, I'd certainly take a look at it.
Now, Kennedy's interesting because it's so many years ago. You know, they do that for danger, too,
because you know, it endangers certain people, etc., etc. So Kennedy uh is very
different from the Epstein thing, but yeah, I'd be inclined to do the Epstein. I'd have no problem with it.
So let's just keep that in mind. I don't know what the about face has been about, but he campaigned on it. I was with
Virginia in Australia in October right before the presidential election. And she was validated by that because she
and all the other brave victims had been trashed and called liars for it
15 20 years. And finally this former president who's running for president again is saying enough with that. Open
the files up. She I mean that was the right thing to do.
Um, okay. So, let's move into the I mean, I just I just we have to just put a we have to put a
It really is it really is something that has been elided, I think, a bit in the press is like how central that was to
his campaign at one point saying we're going to release it all and and his
followers believed that very deeply. And and beyond that, I
mean, why did he say it? Arguably in a political strategy sense, he said it because it mattered to his base. It
mattered to MAGA and believed it. They believed there was a
uh they believed there was a conspiracy. Yes. In general about pedophilia.
And you know what? From what I know, they may not be wrong.
That said, this isn't a MAGA issue. No, this isn't a partisan issue. This is a
human issue. A monstrous human depravity that exists in our culture. Yes.
Rich people should not be allowed to rape poor children. period
fundamental 101 and they shouldn't be able to get away with it and they shouldn't play by a different set of rules. And I think it's
not even about raping of children alone. It's about a whole broader
part of our culture which is that rich people get to do certain things that poor people don't get to do or they don't get as hard a punishment or
whatever else. So is that's the like the big meta idea. Life without consequence.
A life without consequence. Entitlement. treating other people like trash because
they don't have the power, the money, the privilege that you have. So that's where the anger and the demand is coming
from in my view. 100% more than people caring about Virginia who I loved
more than people caring about Epstein or Maxwell. It's this bigger idea.
So I just that's to me it's like that is the frame everyone. Let's keep
remembering that. Um, and to to a lot of MAGA folks that that have that that that have been critical of people talking about the Epstein
files, as I've said from the very beginning, I don't care who's in them. I don't care. If it's a Democrat, roll
it out. If it's a Republican, roll it out. If it's a business leader, roll it out. If it's a member of the royal family, let it all come out.
Absolutely. Because these people have gotten away with things that are truly monstrous for too long.
I Amen. Amen to that. Um, okay. So, I'm going to
try to take you through maybe the easiest way to do this is is to talk chronologically
in terms of my um my last eight months or year, I guess.
Okay. So, we'd been working on the book for more than three years. Um last October,
we had a finished manuscript. All right. But, you know, a lot of I'
I'd been with Virginia in person several times. I lived with the family twice uh for about a month in total. Lived in
their guest room. Um, I'd been with her in different cities around the world whenever we could get together and then
there was a lot of Zoom, you know, obviously we were reporting, we were talking, but we had a a finished manuscript and I
wanted to sit next to her and go over it one more time, one last time, word by word.
This is going to be a big deal for her in amazing ways and in very hard ways
for this book to be published and for her to stand up behind it. And I wanted to make sure that she felt comfortable
and was ready and knew that I'd be by her side every step of the way. So I went to Australia in October, as
I've said, and we went over the entire book. And she we we fixed a couple of things.
We added a scene or two that were new, but we basically I I would go off and
rewrite and then I come back and I'd read read those parts to her. So, by the end of that visit in October, she had
approved the manuscript. She'd approved the title. She I brought a picture of the proposed cover. She approved that.
Um, you know, we were we were in the home stretch and she approved it all.
Um, now I will back up along the way in the reporting of the book and we did a lot
of reporting around Virginia. Um, but she had told me that in 2015 when she
was living with her family in Colorado that there had been an incident where
her husband had physically hurt her. Um, she and later he he and I discussed it
as well because I was in Australia and I got to know him fairly well. Um we we discussed it and they both portrayed it
as just a terrible time in their lives. They were beingounded and chased by paparazzi. There were a lot of tensions.
There was litigation going on. They had three small children and they described it to me as, you know, a very difficult
time and that they had worked hard to get past and that they had three children and and Virginia said to me, "I
don't want it in the book." So, I'm a I'm a ghost writer. I I serve at the
pleasure of the people that I work for and I respected her decision particularly because it was for the for
the good of her kids. So, it in October it was not in the book
when we locked that book, the 2015 incident.
the holidays happen and in January, Virginia called me one night
and she was hysterical and she said it was morning her time in Australia.
It was my my nighttime. She said that her husband had hurt her again very
badly. Um we were on FaceTime. I could see her. She said um
you know she was afraid and that she was hurt and I made sure she was in a safe place. Um I'm I offered to call her mom
and her older brother Danny which I did. Um and
so at this point I know things are not good in in their household. Um, so
in the interim period between that and her death,
she did a couple things. She sent she was in a a car wreck, which was
terrible. Um, after she was in a car wreck, she sent me and another member of
our team an email saying, "In the case of my passing, I want this book published, not just for me, but for all
survivors of sexual abuse. it's important. So, we had that email.
Then, um
she made public in a a statement to People magazine that she
was a victim of domestic abuse. So at that point, her her swearing me to
secrecy on the 2015 incident was no longer holds because she's made it public,
right? And then tragically, she killed herself in late April.
So as we prepared to publish the book, we had all the things you typically need. We had a locked manuscript
approved by the author. We had, you know, all the other title, cover, everything approved. But obviously the
world knew that she was no longer with us sadly. Right? And so I
set out to write a preface uh that would help the reader understand
basically what happened in those intervening months between when the book was
finished and it being p published or or and her death. Um and also talking
about the process a little bit about the process that we okay we used to make this book as nuanced as accurate as
careful her best bestelling warts and all of her life to giving the the reader
a little insight into how these things work. I think there's a lot of mystery around ghost writing and how this works.
It's not just speaking to my tape recorder I'm going to clean it up and put it in a book. we we
had a lot of extra extra reporting around her and we wanted to give some sense of that. Um
so that's that's the chronology. Okay. Well, you know, Amy, I I want to
say I I not only appreciate um the work that you have done to tell this story
for Virginia, but I appreciate postumously her courage in telling the story because you can see in in reading
through this, this was not an easy thing for her to unwind and unpack
and and and the tragedies of her life, I hope, will be outlasted by the courage of this message Because this is a
problem that is scale, basic scale problem. This is bigger in our society than we've decided we wanted to handle.
And I think the Epste matter being so front and center in American culture right now. And this book coming at this
moment is a really vital part of that telling and vital part of of how we
address that as a as a country and as a culture. And it's not just an American problem, it's a global problem. Um, but
I I want to thank you, Amy, so much for coming on the Lincoln Project podcast today and uh and all the best to you and
all the best of luck on the book and and the best to Virginia's family because um they should know she died a hero.
Yeah, she is. She's an American hero. She did this for all of us, not just for herself. She did. And I I'm so grateful
for you shining light on her book and on her. She was an American hero and she was in that way. This book, as tough as
it is to read, yeah, it's inspirational because we all need to be brave. We all need to stand up. We
all need to speak out when things are wrong. And she courage is the highest virtue. She was a girl from the wrong side of
the track. She was a high school dropout. And she had more courage than a lot of us do.
Believe me, I know there's a lot of these corporate guys that are that are on that list who still think they're going to get
away with it. still think they're going to skate on it. Well, that's why the Epstein files need to come out and that's why it all needs to come out.
Why this cover up that's happening at the top of our government is the most shameful cover up in American political
history. So, thank you so much again. I'm deeply grateful for you coming on the show today and deeply grateful for the work
you've done here. Uh, Nobody's Girl is the book, folks. Um, get it, read it. If you have women in your life that you
love and you're a dude, read it. Matters. All right. Thanks, folks. We'll
talk to you again next time. So, I'm delighted today to be joined by Amanda and Sky Roberts. And
this is coincident with the release of Nobody's Girl, the biography that written with Amy Wallace has told the
story of Virginia Gupy and told the story of her life surviving
this horrifying moment with Jeffrey Epstein and this horrifying abuse by Epste and Maxwell. um a and and trying
to live a life where she could become an example and and somebody who would say to other victims, you can make it
through. You can have a life. You can you can survive this. So, Amanda Sky, thank you so much for coming on today. I
really appreciate you guys. Um talk to us about what we don't know
about Virginia. I want to make sure people understand more about her than just she was a victim. talk to us about
about her life and her journey and and and about how you guys came to to work on this book with with Amy Wallace.
Well, Rick, thank you again for having us here. It means a lot to be able to kind of keep her voice alive. I think
that has been the sole purpose of us, you know, coming forward.
Losing her in the way that we lost her was so devastating and
we needed to find a way through healing but keeping her alive at the same time.
Um, I think what people forget often times,
especially when it comes to Virginia, she became so prominently known as this
figure in the public, so strong and like really the voice of all the survivors of
Jeffrey Epstein and Maxwell. And so she became like this pillar of strength and
resilience. And those things are so true. But they also forget that like
there is a human behind that who is flawed, who has still doing the journey
of recovery. It is a lifelong journey to recover from this type of trauma. who is
a mother and a sister who is in spite of everything that she's gone through found
a way to like have joy in her life and laugh and love and still find the best
in humanity after everything that she had gone through. Um, and she was just
she was an inspiration. And like Sky says this all the time when we come forward and we talk and it's like it's
not like we sat around the table and we talked about Billy Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein. She was my sister. We laughed, we joked,
we talked about our kids, you know, she was so quirky and funny and
could make you laugh in like the worst times. And so she was all of
those things. And I think what the book does that is so important. It brings that back. It brings back the humanity.
It lets you see what it looks like as a 16-year-old to go through these horrific
things, right? Um, we always knew that she was writing the book. Um, but it was most recently
after she passed that we decided to kind of collaborate with Amy. Her brothers
were there the last couple of weeks of her life and we felt it was so important to provide context to the reader as to
what really unfolded. And that's where we came up with the preface. You know, there was another
story that people didn't really get to know and it was so important that if we were gonna have the story come out that
the whole story was there. You know, I think that's I think that I I reading the preface of this book,
reading reading the book in in its entirety, it is it is she was in the
eyes of most people who know her name. She's the one who stood up. She's the
one who who said enough. She's the one who got away
to some degree. I mean, yeah, I don't think you ever truly escape that kind of abuse in some ways. You can you can, as
you said, it's it's a lifetime of recovery or something like that. But she was the one who who somehow inside of
her found that core of courage against somebody who was this terrifying
figure. Um, when did you first find when did she first tell you about Jeffrey
Epstein? What the what did you guys find out about what was happening with her and Jeffrey Epste? Was it during or was
it later? Talk to us a little bit about how that sort of how you became aware of Epstein and Maxwell and her life.
Yeah. Um, so I would say I I knew from a very young age about Galain Maxwell and
Jeffrey Epstein. she um you know I'm 5 years younger than she
is so it would have been you know some I think I might have been around 11 years old right in that right in that ballpark
10 11 years old okay uh I had come to find out because uh you
know she had she had gotten a job at Margo um as a locker room attendant we all know that story at least through the
pages um she Maxwell uh prayed upon her
at at Mara Largo and and she became you know, she was really inspire. She wanted to become a masseuse. I mean, that was,
you know, it was kind of on her upbringing. She really wanted to become a masseuse and she was reading a lot of books into that. Um, and so, you know,
when I found out that she had gotten this job where she was traveling and um, traveling the world, getting to meet,
you know, famous people, I had looked at it as like, oh my god, like she's really doing it. You know, we didn't really
come from a lot growing up. We were pretty simple. I mean, our house, we had horses and chickens and goats. She kind
of replicated that later in her life as well because we just had that that passion for it. But I was really young
at that time when I first found out. Um she would come home on occasion
and she'd bring like signatures and be like oh I met this famous person and you know that's that's really what I looked
at it as at least in my early years was like oh my god like she's doing this you know right? Um, come to find out, you know,
obviously years later, I think when we were having our daughter is when she really started to come forward um, a lot
more publicly. I remember having a conversation with her and her saying, "Hey, you're going to probably see
things. You're going to probably see my face and I want you to know like,
uh, it's just hard. It's hard to choose." No, I get it. Take your time. Take your time. um she she would say,
you know, you're going to see me on these things, but I prefer you not to read them. Um here's
the general outline of what happened. Um
I'm she wanted to protect us in a lot of ways from it. She, you know, in the book you'll read that
Jeffrey Epstein um had put a picture of me in front of her.
I heard Yes, I read that. Could
you always have this? Yeah, I'm sorry. I I She always had this like protection mode, right? It was always this
protection mode of like you're going to see things, but I I don't want this evil to touch you.
Um, so we had found out when our when our daughter was born, right around that time in like 2014, 2013,
and that's when she she started to really come forward in the with the family, also in the obviously in the
public eye. Um, we knew generally what was happening, but that's when she started to be a lot more transparent
with us about I think that's when she really started to reveal detail. I think they knew
early on when she had first come when she was Jane Doe in about 2006 or 2007,
okay, when when he was first arrested. So they knew that that was happening, but it
wasn't until she moved to the States where we really had like indepth and detailed conversations about what really
went on. Right. So that story of of of
Epstein showing her a picture of you, you know, I guess you were in middle school, I think, I think is what the
book said, but you were young. You were a kid. um
that that reign of fear in in that that Epstein imposed on her and and from
other accounts of other victims, they were afraid that his power was such that
if they crossed him, they would die or their family members would be harmed.
How did she articulate that fear to you? How did I mean how did that how did that
fear sort of manifest in in how she told you about um the the the things that
Epste and Maxwell had done? I mean I would I would honestly say like
again she Amanda said it best. It's not like we sat around the dinner table talking about Gain Maxwell and Jeffrey
Epstein. I think the easiest and the most the most simple way to put it is she didn't want the evil to touch her
own family in this world. she would repeat that to me many many times um even through some of the details but you
know it's not like she would sit down and give me every single intricate detail I think that's why reading this book was so raw even for us because
there are things in there that you know are just kind of next level something that you wouldn't really want to read
about a family member but is important because it does give context not just to myself but to the reader this wasn't
just like you know a fairy tale where you go on this island like it was it was it was heinous these people did really
disgusting things to these to these girls. I remember too there was when she was
coming forward in 2014 2015 and they were starting to build a case here in the states when she
lived in Florida there became this really big sense of fear. I remember
them. We had went out. We all had went out. They had either went out for lunch.
They came back home and they called us like frantic because their house had been broken into and things had been
turned up and nothing had been stolen. Like they called the cops and everything. Nothing had been stolen. The
house had just been completely open and damaged through, tossed. Mhm. And so and that that that was just again
that petrifying fear and she felt like whoever she could protect, you know, the
least people that knew the details at that time was for the best because there was very real threats to her life
previously and now these things had started to happen again when she was coming forward to build the case.
So it wasn't just like a mind thing. there was real things happening at the
time when she was building her case again, right? So, you know, as you know, her
story as it unfolds in your lives, you know, and again,
I I kind of I I kind of love the fact that even after all this, you guys still have the the all the normal family
things, you know, you were just, you know, you you you joke around, you talk about kids, you talk about, you know, pets, whatever it was.
Um, after she passed,
you became the keepers of this quest for her to to achieve justice
for herself and and for the other victims and and and and in the work she
was doing more broadly outside of the Epstein circle for victims of sexual abuse and child sexual abuse.
How did that feel for both of you as you sort of realized you had to pick up the torch?
I mean, I would say for me it's we felt this this
just grief right from the beginning. I think we we were shocked about how things had unfolded. We went to
Australia to try to to try to bring my sister back because she was going through so many health issues at the time.
And so I think we were still in a lot of shock just from the beginning. But in some ways I think we found
healing through advocacy. I think something that was very important to us was to keep her voice alive in whatever
capacity that we could. And my my thought process behind it as well just
as her brother was, you know, she fought for me um growing up. She fought for
so many people out there, daughters, sisters, mothers, other survivors. And I think it was our time to come forward
and fight for her. And I think that we feel this sense of urgency because it does give us strength. It
gives us us a lot of strength to to talk to other survivors out there. Um because
I see so much of my sister in them. I I think that's I think that's really
really important in this conversation. I I I do also, you know, I I've started to
see more of the victims of Jeffrey Epstein and Glenn Maxwell standing up. I
think they're following in her example. I think they're following in her in in the path she broke here. Um, but right
now I want to ask what your feelings are on the fact that there is a
effort from the very top of this government to keep the secrets of Jeffrey Epstein and Glenn Maxwell's
abuse of hundreds and some argue thousands of young girls and women
uh behind closed doors, locked in a vault. um this government is is
putting a tremendous amount of effort into covering up um these matters even though the victims
are crying out for justice, crying out for the truth to be told. Um, how does
it how are you guys how do you look at this moment where you've got from the president, the Department of Justice,
the FBI, everybody on down trying to cover up what Jeffrey Ebstein and Glenn Maxwell did, not only to your sister,
but to hundreds or thousands of other women. What a betrayal.
What a betrayal of our justice system. What a betrayal to the survivors. And what a betrayal to the American people.
this administration specifically, and this is why this is the issue, and and in some ways,
they kicked the hornets's nest, and now they're shocked that the Hornets are stinging them, right? They used their
trauma and dangled it like a political toy for them to use because it doesn't
matter the the aisle that you stand on, left or right or in between, this is an
issue that everyone can agree on. and there is no gray area here. So in that
sense it's infuriating. Virginia would be infuriated that this is happening.
But what I also see here is it's so painfully obvious.
It's so corrupt that the st the stones are being turned
over and people are really seeing what's going under going on underneath. And this isn't just this administration,
okay? This is decades and decades when this case came forward. So many people
knew from the very beginning what he was doing, h or if they weren't implicated,
if they were in his circle, it was very clear what was going on. And so it's it's all of this is coming to the
surface now. And so in a way I have hope that so much corruption is being exposed
that we are finally saying enough is enough. We need to do the right thing here. Look
how clear this corruption is happening and it's coming from the top and it's trickling all the way down and it is our
job to hold these people accountable because they are elected in these positions.
Yeah. I mean, it's it is it's a it's a dis it's a disjustice to the American people, to us, to survivors. I know my
sister would be screaming from a mountain right now. Um, you know, I think the survivors were very hopeful
that this administration ran their campaign on the fact that they would release the documents and it feels like
they've completely turned 180 degrees the other way and said, "Oh, you know what? Nothing to look, nothing to see
over here." And I and I sort of describe it like sometimes it's like I'm like, "Did I take crazy pills?" Like seriously, am I
like Yeah. Did and did I not like is this real? It's the gaslighting that is beyond
Yeah. Yeah. It's like a continuation of the same gaslighting and abuse that you see. You know, it just makes I'm I'm sure for
all the surviving victims, they look at this and go, I I you know, I don't care. And and
frankly, I mean, speaking for myself, I don't care who's in it. If if these powerful men are Republicans, Democrats, or Martians, I
don't care. Roll it all out. Yeah. Tell the story. The only way that these women are going to find any kind of
closure in this world is if this story is is exposed and people are held to account.
Yeah. No, 100%. And you know, like they have the documents, Rick. I mean, they have them. My sister gave the FBI a ton
of documentation that she never received back. And so, the fact is is that these survivors gave them the material. They
already have it in their possession. And for, you know, you have to really ask yourself, why are they withholding that
from the American people? So, so, so she provided the FBI with documents directly regarding her time
and the abuse she suffered while she was in the web of Maxwell and Epstein. I want I just want to I mean I know this
and you know this if you read the book, but tell us let's let's make sure those words are clear in this podcast for the
American people that Virginia turned over a lot of very incriminating
material to the FBI concerning the abuse of Maxwell and
Epstein 100%. She turned over journal entries, diaries. She turned over photos,
documents that she had never received back. Um, she was also told because one
of the things that she also talks about in the book and is still very traumatizing to her is that like her a
lot of these things were videotaped. He had surveillance all over that home and showed her the room. showed her the room
saying like, "Yeah, this is why these people will never come against me." And the FBI told her that they seized those
videootapes. And she says that she said it to the very end that they had that.
And no, we're not asking you obviously to release the videotapes, but who's in
those videootapes, right? It's the evidence that it's the evidence those tapes contain, not the It's not the purant like let's see the
porn, you know, let's see the dirty acts. None of that. Nobody cares about that. I care that a corporate Wall
Street banker is in there who's getting protected by our government now. I care that foreign officials are in there. I
care that CEOs and political officials and God knows who else are in those are
are in those things. And I think that that is one of the things that that has been sort of washed over here.
Virginia's evidence is now that now the FBI and the DOJ and
Pam Bondi and Cash Call like no don't have anything like what what are you talking about? No, we don't nothing like that here. That to me is one of the like
final outrages in the story. I mean I feel I feel the same way. I
think again Virginia would be mortified as to how this administration's handling this. I mean again they ran this
campaign. Many survivors were supportive of the fact that they were going to they were going to release these documents.
They they felt sure that they were going to like if they're going to he's going to do it. We're finally going to get some sort of justice and now it just
feels like a slap in the face because you know we're stuck here kind of in the whim. And they're like oh but we we
released 33,000 documents now to date maybe a little over 40. And it's like, guys, this is 1% of the overall
documentation that's out there. It's like, this is pure gaslighting of like, don't look over here. We gave you what
you wanted. It's like, no, you gave us nothing of what we wanted. We you gave us what we already knew. When when when
you look at the state prosecution, which I will will argue to my grave was a weak
inside deal, and you look at the federal case that was built on building on Epstein himself,
and you look at the evidence that have been collected in both of
those cases. We're not talking about a few pages of of affidavit. We're not talking about a
few like vague memories. Virginia's evidence she turned over and gave them
was names, dates, faces, places. And from testimony from other victims, their
evidence was names, dates, faces, places. This this is tens of thousands
of pages of documents, hundreds of thousands of pages of documents. Anything that took I'm going to you get
your feeling of this. When they put a thousand FBI agents in this to look through this material to identify
whether the president was in it or not, that means that the these these people were seeing
hundreds of thousands of pages of documents and there there are other names, there
are other faces, there are other individuals, there are other crimes that they have been ex that these FBI agents
now know are out there. I mean, it must be a terrible moral burden on these people to think every day, yeah, I saw
all these stories of child sexual abuse with all these powerful men. I'm gonna I'm going to sit on my hands now. I'm
going to I'm going to keep quiet. I'm not going to I'm not going to stand up and do the right thing. I mean, I I I
don't know how I could do that if I had been one of those FBI agents assigned to this case to say, "Yeah, I'm just going
to cover this up now." Yeah. I think that's what it's going to take for the the roof to cave in on
this. I think whistleblower it's gonna take someone who has seen with their very
very eyes to have the courage and what I would say to them is have the courage
that Virginia had. Yes. Have the courage that every single survivor who was brutally violated by
these people in power. Where is the moral conscience? We got to
find it. We got to find it. have that courage because despite everything and I
mean very real threats to her life to her family's life she still stood
against that adversity and said the truth has to be exposed because this
isn't just about a one thing this is about a system of abuse that has allowed
this to go on over and over and over again that that's what I would say and I do
believe that that is what it's probably going to take Yeah, I mean I don't know how I can even remotely come close to
what Amanda just said. I mean I completely agree with her in the sense that it does take someone with courage
to come forward. I mean it shouldn't be the survivor's burden to carry to
release the names to release, you know, the information. I mean it's just it's such a heavy burden when it comes to
safety. Um the fact that they could get sued into homelessness, it's it's a very dangerous position to be in. And so, you
know, you have you have documentation there. You have support from the survivors, even though they claim, "Oh,
it's only about 20 of them." I think what Mike Johnson said, I'm saying, "Mike, like, what is it going to take, Mike?" Like, for real. Like,
you have 20 20. One is enough, Mike. It's enough. One is one too many.
One is one too. Yes. Thank Thank you, man. That's Yeah, that's perfectly said.
It's just infuriating, I think. Guess before we wrap this up, I I I and this
is a difficult interview first off and I very much appreciate both of you and everything you're doing in this in this
in in trying to make sure Virginia's story is told. Um, what else should people think about and know about
Virginia um as a person and as an advocate before we go?
I think we always smile when we say this because it's just
I think we're at a point in grief where um we're we're in this sense of joy and
like remembering her personality. Um it especially him like their relationship
was so special like they had such a twin twinsy relationship and like you get to
really see that bond in the book and I will tell you that broke me. It broke us multiple
times and the one thing that I told him was like what a gift it is to have that in
writing after someone is gone to know like what they felt Yeah. about you. And so I would say when
you read that in her book is the very core of who she is. She is like the
epitome of love and caring for someone else. And it's an honor. Like it's such
an honor to like know her.
Yeah, it is a it is a it is a beautiful remembrance. You know, I I I was very
moved by the book and and and I it was it's interesting because I I I
knew enough of her story, but she did come off as a person in full when you
read this, you know, the ups and the downs and and I I think the work that you guys are doing and your brother
Danny as well who's not with us today, but but is also part of this telling the story is so important. Hey folks, before
we leave, uh what tell me about the butterfly pins.
Um so butterfly pins are uh it was one of Virginia's favorite symbols. Um it
was also I think one of her favorite creatures out there because it's just it's such a it's such a strong
resemblance to a survivor's story. It's you know a survivor starts out in you
know what you would perceive as a cocoon here. experience a lot of pain and what would be perceived as ugliness and um
sacrifice to to end up by the end transitioning into a butterfly which is
beautiful and in in some ways is um you know it's just the epitome of what a
survivor is and so um this represents also her nonprofit which is soar um she
never got to to see that full or all the way through which is something that's very passionate to us. So if you go to
the sort of the butterfly is her symbol um and that's speak out act reclaim which is what it stands for but
essentially it's to provide survivors resources moving forward. she wanted to she always used to say like if I only
had you know educational resources or financial resources or you know
therapeutic resources when I got out of Gileain Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein's reach like where could I have gone and I
think that's what she want she wanted to provide to so many survivors out there whether from trafficking abuse or sexual
abuse or childhood abuse like they're all kind of intertwined together and she wanted to provide those resources so
that survivors could could learn to find their voice and and step up and and be that advocate because with
together collectively we're we're feared. I mean, we know that we're on the right side of truth and so 100%.
Anyways, long story short, the butterfly is very important to us because it was very important to Virginia and it truly
represents, you know, her transition from a victim to a survivor. That is it is a it is a it is a symbol wired down
in in literature back to the Babylonians of the the caterpillar the crystis the
butterfly the evolution to something through something through something tough and ugly and hard to something
beautiful and liberated. So um I want to thank you guys so much for
coming on the show today. Uh and I want to encourage our listeners um to to reach out and explore Virginia's
organization uh and to read this book. It is it is moving. It is it is a it it
is tough folks in parts. It is really a hard story because you are seeing the insight of how power and and sexual
abuse have intersected in this country and the need for us as a c as a country and a culture to push back on it. Amanda
and Sky, thank you my friends for coming on today. I am deeply grateful for your for your time today and uh and folks I
encourage you to take take a read of Nobody's Girl. It is a it is a harrowing story and uh and I think you'll learn
something from it about resilience and strength and courage. Thanks everybody for listening to the Lincoln Project podcast. We'll be back again next week.
Good night and good luck.

[admin]

Epstein Prosecutor CAUGHT RED-HANDED in SHOCKING Deposition
by Katie Phang
Oct 29, 2025

Alex Acosta, the US Attorney who authorized the sweetheart plea deal for Jeffrey Epstein, sat for his first deposition with House Oversight and defended his decision to sign off on the federal non-prosecution of Epstein. Katie Phang brings us some of the most damning details of Acosta’s deposition



Transcript

Well, folks,
nope, haven't forgotten about the
Epstein files. Mike Johnson may want to
shut down the government to make sure
that Adelita Grijalva isn't sworn in as
the congresswoman from Arizona, thereby,
you know, disenfranchising hundreds of
thousands of voters there of of their
vote. And Johnson may think that in
doing so, he can't get that 218th vote
on that discharge petition to get the
Epstein files released. And if you're
not convening, then you can't have house
oversight getting the records pursuant
to the subpoena to the DOJ, the Pamela
Joe DOJ, as well as from the Epstein
estate. I mean, yeah, I get it, but you
know what? We don't This is your
channel. This is your information. 180
pages here.
Transcript.
It's the deposition of the former United
States Attorney for the Southern
District of Florida, Alex Acosta. Friday,
September 19th, 2025. I've read it. It's
got some interesting tidbits that I
wanted to share with you. I invite you
to read it when you can. Uh, by the way,
Congressman Robert Garcia joining me
right after that deposition saying,
"This is the first of many follow-ups
with former US attorney Alex Aosta." So,
for those of you that are like, "Wait,
wait, wait, is there more?" There will
be more. There will be more. Let's go
through some of the information that I
gleaned when I went through this depo
because I think it's important to share
it with you as always.
There was reinforcement in the
deposition that the line prosecutor, the
A USA who was kind of driving the
prosecution side of this case,
um, kind of after the FBI investigation,
after and during the FBI investigation,
there was the reinforcement in this
deposition by Alex Aosta that she, as in
a USA via concluded that there was
enough evidence to support a 60count
federal indictment against Epstein.
Accassa's response to that assertion is
that it was a draft. It went up the
supervisory chain. It was never fully
reviewed by that supervisory chain which
included the managing attorney in Palm
Beach County and the criminal chief at
the US attorney's office.
But then
there was also accompanying that draft
60count indictment an 80page charging
memo a legal memorandum that was
prepared by a USA viaana that
underscored an analysis of the legal
issues in that indictment but still was
an undeterred pursuit by her of this
60count indictment
and according to Alex Aosta's answer in
the sworn deposition the supervisory
chain in the office had a quote a
different assessment than she did.
I in the Reader's Digest version of what
Aosta said was they were worried that if
he if they had taken this case to trial
that there were quote credibility issues
with the victims of Epstein and they
were worried that they would not secure
a guilty verdict. Now, I want to be
clear, you got 60 counts. I'm sure a
jury is going to find Epstein guilty on
at least one, but I digress. Now, let's
go to this.
A USA Vafana repeatedly pressed her
supervisors to authorized the
indictment, and that authorization was
repeatedly denied.
He said, I think it'd be fair to say she
pressed them. I don't know how you
define repeatedly, but she did press
them. So, there was pressure internally
at the US Attorney's Office in the
Southern District of Florida from the
prosecutor who knew the facts and the
evidence the best. And I I want to
emphasize that because what became
painfully clear through Aosta's depo is
he had not reviewed all the evidence. He
said he relied on the team around him to
let him know. But this is a huge case
with major implications. And I don't
care if this assessment is being done in
the mid 2000s if you are the head of the
US attorney's office. Shouldn't you
familiarize yourself at a minimum at a
minimum with the critical evidence so
you can decide? Because this claim that
the credibility of the victims was at
issue was this huge deterrent was belied
by some of the objective other evidence
that existed in this investigation.
Anyway, here we go.
One of Aosta's kind of takeaways from
this experience
was he said repeatedly in his deposition
that the state was a quote unreliable
partner end quote. And by the state he
means the state of Florida. He punts a
huge amount of this flawed prosecution
in Florida in the mid200s to the state
of Florida. He blames the state of
Florida for a lot of things and and it
kind of makes you wonder if the federal
government is so powerful and has so
much weight in import. Why is it that
Aosta allowed the state of Florida to
either endun charging decisions, do
things without his knowledge and or
undercut his authority and his kind of
heft.
It is convenient, is it not, after the
fact, to blame someone else. It suggests
at a minimum then the lack of
coordination between the state of
Florida and the prosecuting authorities
and law enforcement with the US
attorney's office, the federal
prosecutors, the federal authorities. It
suggests that they either didn't take
Epstein seriously enough or that Aosta
thought it was just okay to do the
nonprosecution agreement, which we'll
get into in a minute, but to also allow
somebody like Jeffrey Epstein with his
dozens at that time dozens of victims
in disgusting crimes of sex against
children. According to Aosta, it was
okay in the end that the guy only did a
couple of years. Okay, I disagree.
How do I also know that Aosta was okay
with it? Well, he disagrees with the
assessment as Congressman Garcia asked.
So, you would disagree that calling it a
sweetheart deal, you would disagree with
that assessment, Aosta? I disagree with
that.
Aosta goes on to say, "I think it's
really easy in this era to sort of label
something with an easy sound bite."
No, it's a sweetheart deal if you have
dozens of child victims and you only
have to do a few months in jail, not
even in state prison, and you don't look
at federal charges at all. Not a single
one, and then you get to be on work
release.
Sounds like a sweetheart deal to me.
Now, what I thought was a really
interesting line of question during
AASA's deposition was this.
Accassa was shown an exhibit, a New York
magazine article dated October 28th,
2002. And I want you to focus on that
year, 2002, because it predates
predates the prosecution in Florida by
the state or the feds of Epstein. The
New York Magazine article titled, quote,
Jeffrey Epstein, international moneyman
of mystery. Donald Trump is involved in
this. Listen carefully.
This is a quote from this New York
Magazine article. Epstein likes to tell
people that he's a loner, a man who's
never touched alcohol or drugs and whose
night life is far from energetic. And
yet, if you talk to Donald Trump, a
different Epstein emerges. Quote, I've
known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy.
End quote. Trump booms from a
speakerphone. Quote, he's a lot of fun
to be with. It is even said that he
likes beautiful women as much as I do
and many of them are on the younger
side. No doubt about it. Jeffrey enjoys
his social life. End quote. That is a
quote of Donald Trump talking about
Jeffrey Epstein. So the question to
Aosta in his sorn depot is this. Mr.
Aosta, this article was published in
2002 before the US attorney's office
launched its investigation into Jeffrey
Epstein. Was Donald Trump ever
questioned about this article or this
quote that he gave to the reporter?
Answer not to my knowledge.
Coleman say what?
He says stuff like it's even said that
he likes beautiful women as much as I do
and many of them are on the younger
side.
This is coming from one of Jeffrey
Epstein's besties, Donald Trump, and you
don't talk to Donald Trump about this.
Great investigation there.
There's another one,
another exhibit, a page six article
dated October 15th, 2007,
titled Sex Case Victims Lining Up.
Here's a quote from the article. Lawyers
from a Manhattan billionaire investor
Jeffrey Epstein, who's agreed to plead
guilty to soliciting underage hookers,
are bracing for a slew of lawsuits from
as many as 40 young women who came to
his Palm Beach mansion for m massage
sessions. Page six has learned. Now, I
want to stop there. I want to tell you
how [ __ ] offensive it is to call
these girls, these little girls, these
underageed girls, hookers. So, but
listen, don't be surprised, right? Page
six, owned and operated by the New York
Post. So, we know what that's all about.
Then, in the article, it goes on to read
the following quote. Meanwhile, the Mara
Lago Club in Palm Beach last night
confirmed a website report that Epstein
has been banned there. quote, "He would
use the spa to try to procure girls, but
one of them, a masseuse about 18 years
old, he tried to get her to do things."
End quote. A source told us, quote, "Her
father found out about it and went
absolutely ape shit." Epstein's not
allowed back. End quote. Epste denies
he's banned from Mara Lago and says, in
fact, he was recently invited to an
event there. So, this is the question to
Aosta in the Sorno. Now, Mr. Aosta, as
it says in this article, this was
published in October 2007 after your
office had executed the nonprosecution
agreement with Jeffrey Epstein, but
before he pleaded guilty to the charges.
Did the US attorney's office ask Donald
Trump about any women at Mara Lago?
Answer: No. No. No.
In fact, Aosta says, "I'm not aware of
who was interviewed and not interviewed
in the case generally because US
attorneys do not become involved in
deciding who gets interviewed and who
does not get interviewed." What kind of
lame answer is that?
Just quickly moving forward a little
bit. Again, this deposition transcript
is worth the read, people. Let's go to
page 85.
So, you guys know in the nonprosecution
agreement, Galain Maxwell is claiming
that she's the beneficiary of the we're
also not going to prosecute
co-conspirators of Jeffrey Epste, right?
And in the nonprosecution agreement,
I've gone over it extensively here at
this channel with you. You know, there
are four co-conspirators that are
identified in that nonprosecution
agreement. And so, the question to Aosta
was this. Do you have any recollection
of whether or not your office informed
those four individuals that they were
going to be named in the nonprosecution
agreement? answer. I have no independent
recollection. It's like you're going to
fullon name four people in a
nonprosecution agreement. And you're not
going to let them know that they're not
being prosecuted. It is like
embarrassing, right? It But it doesn't
rise to the level of Keystone Cops
incompetence. It's just really
nefarious. There's something incredibly
incredibly ulterior motived about all of
this
that bothers me. Here's another
outrageous thing. I fast forwarded too
far. Page 77.
And this is dealing with the
nonprosecution agreement people, right?
What kind of crimes are nonprosecution
agreements normally used for? Answer. So
nonprosecution agreements are typically
used more in the white collar setting.
In this case, it was different because
it's not a non-prosecution on a federal
crime, but it's a nonprosecution in
deference to an alternative prosecution
in the state where the case began so
that he could proceed as a police as
police initially had thought
appropriate. While US attorney, had you
used non-prosecution agreements prior to
this one? Answer, not to my
recollection. Did you use any after,
meaning after the Epstein one? Answer,
not to my recollection.
He goes on to say, "So non-prosecution
agreements are typically are more
typical in the types of cases that are
litigated in Washington or in other
districts. Question, you said white
collar cases." Answer by Aosta, yes.
Question, more common financial crimes
or tax crimes, those kinds of things.
Answer correct.
So, if this is so unusual, people, if
it's Epstein, and you have this insane
defense team, which we're going to get
into in a second, and you don't normally
use non-prosecution agreements for these
types of crimes, and you have all of
these kind of like unusual quirky
things, why would you, as a US attorney,
not familiarize yourself at an intimate
level on the details and the facts and
the evidence? I find that to be so not
credible.
You want to get even more irritated
because I am. [ __ ] Page 94.
Did anyone in your office or the FBI
ever interview Galain Maxwell?
Answer: To my knowledge, I did not. I
recall reading somewhere in the Justice
Department report that I believe our
lead prosecutor was not aware of Miss Ma
Miss Maxwell, but I could be wrong.
That's just a vague recollection.
Follow-up question. It does seem odd in
verging on not a wholesome investigation
though to enter into this type into this
level of agreement without interviewing
these types of people as in Galain
Maxwell right do you agree Mr. Aosta
answered, "So again, I don't know. I was
not involved in how the investigation
proceeded."
Whatever. He then says, again, the state
being an unreliable partner that Epstein
got into the work release and they got
upset and so they didn't uh they sent a
scathing letter to the Palm Beach County
Sheriff's Office saying, "We're mad
about it. We're mad about it." That's
great. Doesn't help the victims of
Epstein Maxwell and others, does it? No.
And to kind of quickly get us through a
couple of other kind of highle points
here, I want you guys to hear exactly
how wild it is. There are all of these a
USA, these federal prosecutors who are
working on the investigation in the in
the Epstein case. They all left the US
attorney's office. But I want you guys
to understand where they went because
this is the part that's going to blow
your mind. So there's a guy named Bruce
Reinhardt. He he was working at the US
attorney's office in the Southern
District of Florida. Okay? So he ends up
leaving the US attorney's office in
January of 2008. But in October of 2007,
just a few months before, he files
articles of incorporation for a law
firm, a private law firm that he's
launching called Bruce Reinhardt, PA.
Now, here's the thing, though. He he
files these articles of incorporation,
meaning he is incorporating a private
business three months before he leaves
the US attorney's office. And by the
way, he worked um
while the Epstein case was pending. He
was and AOSA was working in the Palm
Beach office, right? Then he files also
articles of incorporation for a company
called Florida Science Foundation.
And he filed those articles of
incorporation for Jeffrey Epstein's
company, Florida Science Foundation. And
the reason why we know about that is
because that's the company that Epste
went to work for on his work release.
kid you not.
Aosta thinks it was unethical for him to
begin private practice while still in
the US attorney's office. So the
articles of incorporation for the law
firm for Reinhardt, October 23rd, 2007.
The articles of incorporation for
Florida Science Foundation, November
1st, 2007.
Can't make it up. Reinhardt's principal
place of business is a suite in West
Palm Beach, Florida, which was also the
same exact address and same exact office
suite number for Florida Science
Foundation, which was the front for
Jeffrey Epstein.
Mr. Reinhardt's then first clients in
private practice were Mr. Epste's maid,
Sarah Kellen, and Mr. Epstein's pilots
of the private jet that flew the
underage children to the private island
and other places. According to the
deposition,
Mr. Kasa says the US attorney's office
was quote troubled by Mr. Reinhardt
leaving and shifting to Epstein related
clients.
He said it was shady.
Okay, now there's even more. It's not
even done. Ready?
Again, worthwhile walking through with
you people. One of Jeffrey Epstein's
defense council, criminal defense
councils, his name was Jack Goldberger.
He's in Palm Beach County. Goldberger's
law partner at the time of the Palm
Beach County State Attorney's Office
doing its investigation into Epstein.
Well, Goldberger's law partner was
married to the ASA who was handling the
Epstein case at the Palm Beach County
State Attorney's Office. Once Epstein
retained Goldberger, then that ASA was
removed on the basis of a conflict of
interest. At the time, this US attorney,
Alex Aosta, had no idea. He only became
aware of it 20 years later is what he
says. I mean,
there's
the former principal deputy chief of the
child exploitation and obscenity section
of the US attorney's office joined the
defense team after the nonprosecution
agreement was signed. It's just
it's wild, right, people?
And then I'm still going. I'm so sorry.
One of the federal prosecutors on the
Epstein case, Matt Menchel, was dating
an A USA at the time, Lilianne Sanchez.
She left the US attorney's office and
was on the criminal defense team for
Jeffrey Epstein. I mean, the the
connectivity is kind of troubling. I'll
use that adjective, wouldn't you say?
And and again, and these are just some
of the highlights from this. I just want
to kind of wrap this up by by sharing
this last one with you. I think it's
noteworthy.
This is from Rep. Stanbury. She did a
fantastic job, by the way. And this is
to Alex Aosta.
With regard to any evidence that may
have been collected by the FBI or DOJ,
does the president of the United States,
as in Trump, have the authority to
unseal those documents if there is not
otherwise a very specific court order
regarding them? Aosta responds, "If a
seal is placed by the court, then I'd
have to go to the court that unseals
it." But Stanberry pushes and says, "But
any other document that's not under a
court order can technically and Aosta
interrupts and says the following.
Documents that aren't under court orders
can be if there is no prohibition, then
whoever is the custodian of that
document can proceed as they see fit."
That's my opinion. I'm not speaking for
the executive branch, but absent a
prohibition, a custo custodian can
proceed. Let me be clear people. The
Epstein files are not under a court
order. They are not sealed by a court
order. The UN the only thing are the
grand jury proceedings. But the files
that are being held by the DOJ, anything
that the FBI has, any other agency, any
other quote custodian, I mean that's the
reason why the Epstein estate is turning
over documents, is it not people? That's
why you're getting production from the
Epstein estate. You're not getting it
from the federal government. This is why
we have to continue to keep our foot on
the gas pedal when it comes to the
Epstein files. this government shutdown,
the the cruelty is the point. The pain
is the point. But here's the thing. The
Epstein files is also the point. They
don't want the Epstein files released.
I invite you again, go through the step
of transcript. I may do a follow-up
video on some of the other aspects of
this, but I really wanted to share with
you what I found when I read the 180
pages of the Depo, and I will of course
stay on it. Be mad, be outraged, demand
accountability. I'm off to rattle some
cages. Katie Phang here.

[admin]

Trump DOJ busted over Epstein’s DIRTY MONEY CASE: Ari Melber on bank receipts & “Lame Duck Trump”
Ari Melber, Journalist & Attorney
Oct 31, 2025

Journalist and attorney Ari Melber reports on new revelations that a federal prosecutor had a case against Jeffrey Epstein for money laundering, but was told to stand down by Bush DOJ leadership -- and a NY Times report about how JPMorgan flagged over $1 billion of Epstein transactions as suspicious, after his death. Melber reports on the legal significance of the stories, crediting journalists at Bloomberg and NY Times, and the open questions facing the Trump DOJ.